Moment 202: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Episode 202

Title: Moment 202: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...

Release Date: February 28, 2025

Host: Steven Bartlett (DOAC)

Guest: Former Mafia Member (Identity Not Revealed)

---

Introduction

In Episode 202 of The Diary Of A CEO, host Steven Bartlett engages in a candid and intense conversation with a former Mafia member. The guest delves deep into his tumultuous upbringing, his father's alleged involvement in multiple murders, and his personal journey within the notorious Colombo crime family. This episode offers listeners an unfiltered glimpse into the inner workings of organized crime, exploring themes of loyalty, power, and the psychological impacts of living a life intertwined with violence and strict codes of conduct.

---

Key Discussions and Insights

1. Father’s Involvement in Murders and Legal Ramifications

The episode opens with the guest revealing the dark legacy of his father. He states:

“My dad was involved in 30, 35 murders...” ([00:00])

Despite his father being indicted for a single murder, he was acquitted and never officially admitted to involvement in the numerous other killings. This revelation sets the tone for the episode, highlighting the blurred lines between loyalty and legality within the Mafia.

2. The Moral Dilemma of Framing and Societal Impact

Steven Bartlett probes the guest on whether framing his father was beneficial for society:

“Do you think he was better off behind bars?... was it a net benefit to society that they framed him?” ([00:16])

The guest responds by emphasizing the importance of upholding the law without exceptions, cautioning against governmental overreach:

“I believe strictly, the government has enough tools and weapons to get people the right way... 96, 97% of the time...” ([00:32])

He expresses a belief in the government's ability to enforce the law without resorting to unlawful measures, underscoring the importance of maintaining legal integrity to prevent tyranny.

3. The Code of Omertà and Mafia Loyalty

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the Mafia's code of silence, Omertà, and the strict rules that govern member behavior:

“People think when we take an oath, the oath of Omertà, it's an oath to stay silent. It's not an oath to lie, steal, cheat and kill.” ([00:32])

The guest elaborates on the stringent rules imposed within the Mafia, where loyalty to the family supersedes personal relationships and even familial bonds:

“From now on, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, you're on call to serve this family... Before anything and everything.” ([05:40])

This uncompromising loyalty ensures the Mafia's longevity and control, as members are indoctrinated to prioritize the family's interests above all else.

4. Recruitment and Training within the Mafia

The guest shares his personal experience of being recruited into the Colombo family, highlighting the rigorous training and obedience required:

“I sat with the boss, and he said to me, here's the deal... We were number one in your life.” ([05:40])

He describes a demanding pledge period lasting two and a half years, where he had to prove his worth through unwavering discipline and adherence to orders, whether menial or violent.

5. The Violent Reality of Mafia Life

Contrary to misconceptions that Mafia life is solely about hierarchy and respect, the guest does not shy away from discussing its inherent violence:

“It's a violent life at times. If you're part of the life in some shape or form, you're part of the violence.” ([07:45])

He acknowledges that violence is an integral aspect of Mafia operations, serving as both a tool for control and a means of enforcing internal rules.

6. Mafia Life Compared to a Cult

Steven Bartlett draws parallels between the Mafia's strict code and cult-like behavior:

“Sounds a bit like a cult in a way.” ([09:10])

The guest concedes, noting the pervasive loyalty and the almost ritualistic adherence to Mafia rules, although he distinguishes it from traditional cults by the absence of ceremonial practices.

7. Lessons in People Skills and Negotiation

One of the most insightful segments revolves around the transferable skills the guest acquired during his time in the Mafia, particularly in negotiation and people management:

“I learned the art of negotiation at these sit downs... how to try to really, you know, before I walk into a meeting with somebody...” ([10:03])

He differentiates between racketeers and gangsters within the Mafia, explaining how his role required strategic negotiation and understanding of human behavior to navigate business disputes and maintain the family's interests.

---

Notable Quotes

• Guest on Government Law Enforcement:

  "I believe strictly, the government has enough tools and weapons to get people the right way, and they do. 96, 97% of the time." ([00:32])

• Guest on Omertà:

  "It's not an oath to lie, steal, cheat and kill. Does that happen as part of that life? Yes." ([00:32])

• Guest on Loyalty:

  “From now on, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, you're on call to serve this family... Before anything and everything.” ([05:40])

• Guest on Violence in the Mafia:

  “It's a violent life at times. If you're part of the life in some shape or form, you're part of the violence.” ([07:45])

• Guest on Negotiation Skills:

  "I learned the art of negotiation at these sit downs... how to really, you know, before I walk into a meeting with somebody..." ([10:03])

---

Conclusion

Episode 202 of The Diary Of A CEO offers a profound exploration into the life of a former Mafia member, shedding light on the complexities of loyalty, the harsh realities of organized crime, and the profound impact such an upbringing can have on an individual’s personal and professional development. Through his candid revelations, the guest provides invaluable insights into the mechanisms of power, negotiation, and survival within one of the world's most secretive organizations. Steven Bartlett's thoughtful questioning facilitates a deep understanding of the guest's experiences, making this episode a compelling listen for those intrigued by the underpinnings of power and influence.

---

Connect with Steven Bartlett:

• Instagram: @steven
• LinkedIn: Steven Bartlett
• New Book: Available Here

If you enjoyed this episode, consider following the show to support future content. Thank you for listening!

Transcript

[A]

My dad was involved in 30, 35 murders. Now, he never admitted that to me, about anyone in particular. He was indicted for one murder, and he was acquitted in that case, found not guilty. But my dad was. He was a tough guy. There's no question.

[B]

So if he was involved in 35 murders, as the FBI suggest, do you think he was better off behind bars? What I'm getting at here, really, is if they framed him, was it a net benefit to society that they framed him?

[A]

Well, you know, Steve, let me. I know this is going to be a tough one, but let me. Let me tell you how I think the right and just side of me, the legally just side of me says that the government is never allowed to break the law, to uphold the law, because if you allow that to happen, then it falls into monarchy and people are not protected because if they do it against Sonny Francis, they can do it against anybody. So I believe strictly, the government has enough tools and weapons to get people the right way, and they do. 96, 97% of the time. They shouldn't be allowed to violate the law to go after a criminal. That's my. My feeling on it. Now, another thing is this. People think when we take an oath, the oath of Omerta, it's an oath to stay silent. It's not an oath to lie, steal, cheat and kill. Does that happen as part of that light? Yes. But we're told straight out. Now, try to understand the thinking here. You come into that life, you told straight out, we have rules. You don't ever violate another man's wife, daughter, sister, girl. Never. That'll cause you to die. During my era, we weren't allowed to deal with drugs. You deal with drugs, you get caught, you die. You maybe do some other things. You're not honest with people. You disrespect somebody, you hit another made guy, you die. Now, we understand that. And they tell you your best friend may be the one that pulls the trigger because the life comes before anything. That's it. You don't violate the rules. That's how we maintain control in this life. That's how we existed for 100 years, and that's how it's going to stay. So now you're saying, okay, we all agreed to this. We all admitted it. If one of us decides to violate the policy of the law and we get caught, well, we understand the consequences. So that's how I looked at it, and that's how I justified it. Now, does that say you can go out and start to do random killings no. If the boss tells you to go kill somebody because he doesn't like him and you do it, that's not right. But if we kill our own, and, you know, you hear a lot of times, well, we only kill our own. Well, we don't only kill our own. But if we only kill our own, knowing that we made that choice, well, then, okay, I kind of get it in a way. Even though murder is murder and it's a crime and it's sinful, and I understand that, but that's how you justify it.

[B]

But it wasn't the case that you only killed your own.

[A]

Well, for some of us it was, and for others it was not. And I've seen both sides of that.

[B]

You've never talked about having to kill someone, have you?

[A]

No.

[B]

Why is that?

[A]

It's just not a subject I care to get into. You know, I. Listen, I like to be as honest as I possibly can because I am a Christian, and you don't want to lie to people. But it's not something I want to talk about.

[B]

I was wondering, because when I read that, I thought maybe it's because, you know, there's something might be legal retribution. Maybe it's because, you know, it's not nice for people to hear about. Maybe it's because there's still some kind of, like, rule where you can't say anything. But I wondered why. Maybe it's all of the above. I don't know.

[A]

Well, you know, Steve, look, there's guys. There's a lot of guys on the street now. And if you go on YouTube, you'll see a number of them, and they've admitted to murders that they were involved in. These are made guys, and they've admitted to it. And many of them had struck a deal with the government. They had immunity for the crimes they committed, even murder. I mean, the government give you immunity for murder if you want to. If they want you to cooperate and help them out, it's amazing, but they'll do it. And so they have immunity. They could talk about their crimes. I didn't cooperate to that level at all. I don't have immunity for anything that I've done in the past. You know, and listen, you know our laws here in the United States. If you were standing next to somebody when they murdered somebody else, you're there. You could. You could be charged for murder the same way to them. So, you know, I'm not saying I ever was in that position. I'm just saying that's the law. So, you know, why Talk about it, number one. And number two, murder is ugly. You know, it's ugly, and you don't ever want to talk about it. I mean, I don't. If I were to do something like that, I wouldn't be proud of it. I'm not trying to throw my chest out and say, hey, look what I could do. Guys go to war, they kill people all the time, you know, in defense of our country or defensive. So, I mean, it's not like, oh, God, you know, nobody. I mean, murder happens every single day. Who wants to talk about it?

[B]

Some people do.

[A]

I know. Not me.

[B]

You got closer to the Mafia when your father was sent down, and this was the point where you decided not to go to school. The boss of the Colombo family brings you close, brings you under his wing. Do you have to do some kind of training or something to join the Mafia? Is there any. Oh, you do?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Well, when you come in, here's what happened. I leave there, a captain and a family picked me up and took me to see the boss. Now, unfortunately, Joe Colombo was assassinated. He was shot, seriously wounded. He lingered for about seven years, and then he died as a result of these wounds. So a new boss took over, and he's. He's passed away now. And I sat with him. This was about two weeks after my father sent word downtown that he was proposing me to be part of that life. Because you can't just go up to somebody and say, I'd like to join. Somebody has to propose, you vouch for you, say you have what it takes. There's a lot of nepotism in that life. A lot of fathers brought their sons in, their nephews, whatever. So in my case was my dad that proposed me. And so I sat with the boss, and he said to me, here's the deal. You want to become a member of our life? Your father sent a message. Is that true? And I said, yes. He said, well, here's the deal. From now on, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, you're on call to serve this family, the Colombo family. That means if your mother is sick and she's dying, you're at her bedside. We call you to service. You leave your mother, you come and serve us. From now on, we're number one in your life. Before anything and everything. We're. When and if we feel you've deserved this privilege, this honor to become a member, we'll let you know. That's it. And do you accept that? And I said, yes, I do. And so for the next Two and a half years. I was in like a recruit pledge period where I had to do anything and everything I was told to do, prove myself worthy. Could have been something very menial. A lot of discipline in that life, a lot of authority, a lot of alleged respect. You had a meeting at 8:00, you weren't there. At 7:30 you were late. You could never be late in that life. I don't care what the situation is. You had a meeting at 8 o'clock. If there was traffic and you were concerned, come the night before and sleep in the car. Can never be late. No excuses. You know, drive the boss to a meeting, sit in the car 3, 4, 5 hours, God forbid you leave. You go to the restroom, get a newspaper. He comes out, you're not there. Oh, my gosh, we could have had trouble. You were the getaway driver, you weren't there. I know. I did that once and I paid the price, you know, for it. That's very serious stuff.

[B]

You paid the price.

[A]

Well, paid the price, in other words. I got a real good tongue lashing. I'll tell you, just stuff like that, they kind of put you on the shelf for two weeks to make you understand the seriousness of what you did. So you never do it again. You never repeat your mistakes in that life. If you're smart, if you want to, number one, want to survive, and number two, you want to move up. Never repeat your mistakes. So things like that. And then, look, I'm going to be honest with you, as honest as I possibly can. It's a violent life at times. If you're part of the life in some shape or form, you're part of the violence. And if anybody tells you differently, they're either not being honest or they weren't a made member of that life. And that's just how it goes.

[B]

Why'd you say that? Cause you said the menial and then you said it's a violent life. Are you saying that in that sort of probationary two years, you had to do both of those things? You had to be involved in the violence and do the menial stuff?

[A]

Let's put it this way. They gotta have enough faith in you that you can be capable of doing whatever it is they tell you to do? They have to. They have to understand that and feel that. Because if they don't feel that, you're not going anywhere. That's it. So during that time, you're gonna be tested.

[B]

And you were tested?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When? When they made you pledge that if your mother was dying and you were at her bedside and they called you and asked you to do something, you'd leave. Would you have left if your mother was dying back then?

[A]

I mean, I might have. I mean, you know, I was a. I was a play by the rule guy. You know, I. You know, I. I was very fortunate that I had a great teacher in my dad. He was a student and master of the life. And so. And I was like a sponge. I absorbed whatever my dad told me. I listened. And, you know, some of the things that he told me were right. So I might have at the time. I'm gonna be honest with you. I mean, I. I don't know. It would have to depend on what's happening at that moment. But, you know, I was so indoctrinated into that life at some point. It's who I was.

[B]

Sounds a bit like a cult in a way.

[A]

Yeah, it's cult like, I guess, you know, in a way. I mean, we didn't do silly things, you know, we wouldn't have rituals and ceremonies. Other than that. Sounds like one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Other than that one, Nothing after that.

[B]

But what did it teach you about people skills? Because you're around these bosses, these very talented men, you're seeing how they conduct themselves, do business, influence people, win friends. What did that phase of your life teach you about how to be a motivator slash manipulator of people?

[A]

Yeah, it taught me well. I think I got it. You know, there's kind of two levels in that life. You're either a racketeer or you're a gangster.

[B]

What's the difference?

[A]

I'll tell you the difference. A gangster is a guy that really doesn't know how to use that life to benefit him in business. So he's more of a. I don't want to say tough guy. I don't want to say the term. But he's more of a guy that, hey, we had something done. This is the guy, send him out, let him do it, because you got to earn your keep in that life. We in the Colombo family had 115 made guys at that time. Out of the 115, 20 of us were really earning money and supporting the family in some way and really elevating the family. We were racketeers. Now, a gangster could never really be a racketeer. He just doesn't know how. But a racketeer has to be a gangster also, because you're going to be called upon. Not as much as this guy, but when you're called upon, you got to do it. So, you know, I was more of a racketeer. And as a result of that, I was constantly in business disputes and sitting down with other guys. And you have to learn, you know, how to negotiate. I mean, I learned the art of negotiation at these sit downs, you know, learned how to try to, you know, really, before I walk into a meeting with somebody, number one, try to know the personality of that person, know if there's a fallback position, if I'm not winning, what I'll accept. And so I had to prepare myself for these meetings because unprepared, you know, they'll chew you up because a lot of these old timers were very skillful. And believe me, you could be 100% right and end up wrong, and they'll put you in a. In a trap. So you really had to know what you were doing. And so my people skills in that regard as far as negotiating and identifying a true leader were really honed to a high degree because I came out on top many, many times.