Moment 209: The Real Reason You’re Gaining Weight (Even If You’re Exercising!)

Summary

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Moment 209 - The Real Reason You’re Gaining Weight (Even If You’re Exercising!)

Release Date: April 18, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 209 of "The Diary Of A CEO," host DOAC engages in a deep conversation with expert guest B (name unspecified in the transcript) about the multifaceted reasons behind weight gain, even among those who regularly exercise. The discussion delves into genetics, metabolism, aging, dietary strategies, and the psychological aspects of weight management, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of why weight loss can be challenging despite active lifestyles.

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Genetics and Weight Management

Timestamp: 00:00 – 04:40

The conversation begins with an exploration of how genetic makeup influences an individual's relationship with food, eating habits, and weight loss.

• Genetic Predispositions: Guest B explains that genetics play a significant role in determining susceptibility to certain diseases related to weight. For instance, individuals of East Asian and South Asian descent are more prone to type 2 diabetes at lower BMI levels compared to Polynesians, who can maintain higher BMI without immediate health risks.

  B (00:12): "East Asian people... South Asian people... cannot get as large BMI wise, before becoming at risk of type 2 diabetes... Polynesians... can get pretty large before they actually end up getting diseases."

• Body Composition: B emphasizes the importance of body shape and fat distribution, noting that where fat is stored (e.g., bum vs. tummy) and overall body proportions significantly impact health outcomes.

• Obese Gene (Leptin): Discussing the "obese gene," B clarifies that it's actually the leptin gene responsible for signaling the brain about fat stores.

  B (02:50): "That's the exact gene. Leptin is the gene that I'm talking about in chapter two with the obese... it's the fat gene, meaning gene from fat, that lets your brain know how much fat you have."

• MC4R Gene Mutations: B introduces another gene, MC4R, part of the fat-sensing pathway, where mutations can lead to increased appetite and obesity.

  B (03:01): "We can predict how much someone will eat in a test buffet meal scenario if they have a 50% functioning gene versus a zero functioning gene."

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The Set Point Theory and Weight Regulation

Timestamp: 04:40 – 08:10

The discussion transitions to the concept of the body’s "set point," a weight range the body naturally strives to maintain.

• Set Point Hypothesis: B explains that each individual has a weight range that the body defends, making significant weight loss or gain challenging without sustained effort.

  B (05:06): "There is very little choice in inverted commas in where we end up with the body weight over a lifetime."

• Impact of Genetics and Environment: While genetics set the foundation for weight regulation, environmental factors like diet and physical activity play crucial roles in maintaining or altering one's weight within the set range.

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Aging and Metabolism

Timestamp: 06:36 – 08:10

Addressing the common observation that people tend to gain weight as they age, B provides scientific insights.

• Metabolic Changes: Contrary to previous beliefs, B states that metabolism doesn't significantly slow down until around age 60. However, weight gain occurs earlier due to:

  • Increased income leading to consumption of richer foods.
  • More sedentary lifestyles as careers advance.
  • Loss of muscle mass, which is pivotal for maintaining a higher metabolic rate.

  B (06:57): "As we get older... we tend to exercise less... we lose muscle mass. Those are all three things."

• Muscle Mass and Metabolism: Maintaining muscle mass through resistance training is essential for a healthy metabolism, particularly as one ages.

  B (08:10): "The more muscles you have, the higher your metabolism."

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Strategies for Sustainable Weight Loss

Timestamp: 12:03 – 17:37

The conversation shifts to practical advice for achieving and maintaining weight loss.

• Dietary Recommendations: B outlines three critical dietary components for sustainable weight loss:

  1. Protein Intake: Aim for approximately 16% of daily energy intake from protein sources to support muscle maintenance without overtaxing the kidneys.

     B (13:00): "The amount of protein you eat... keep to about 16% of the energy in your day."

  2. Fiber Consumption: Increase fiber intake to around 30 grams daily to enhance satiety and digestive health.

     B (13:00): "We need to eat as much fiber as physically possible. Okay, 30 grams."

  3. Limit Added Sugars: Restrict added sugars to no more than 5% of daily energy intake to prevent unnecessary calorie consumption.

     B (13:00): "Keep [added sugars] to 5% or less of the energy content in your day."

• Exercise’s Role in Weight Loss vs. Maintenance:

  • Limited Impact on Initial Weight Loss: B argues that while exercise is beneficial for overall health, it is not the most effective strategy for initial weight loss for the average person.

    B (14:58): "It is a good strategy for weight loss if you're an Olympic athlete or a Tour de France rider."

  • Crucial for Weight Maintenance: Once weight loss is achieved, regular exercise helps in maintaining the reduced weight by increasing metabolic rate and preserving muscle mass.

    B (15:20): "Exercise... is a good weight maintenance tool."

  • Psychological Factors: B highlights how exercise can lead to increased appetite and a sense of having "earned" additional calories, making dietary control more challenging post-exercise.

    B (16:51): "Because of both of those things, we tend to exercise less... then you get ravenously hungry."

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Maintaining Muscle Mass for Healthy Aging

Timestamp: 10:29 – 12:10

B underscores the importance of resistance training in preserving muscle mass, which is vital for metabolic health as one ages.

• Resistance Training: Engaging in regular resistance exercises, such as lifting weights, helps maintain muscle mass, thereby supporting a healthier metabolism in later years.

  B (10:29): "Maintain resistance training, not lifting it."

• Long-Term Health Benefits: Preserving muscle mass not only aids in weight management but also contributes to overall longevity and quality of life.

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Conclusion

In this insightful episode, DOAC and guest B dissect the intricate interplay between genetics, metabolism, aging, diet, and exercise in the context of weight management. The key takeaway is that while genetics set certain predispositions, sustainable weight loss and maintenance are achievable through mindful dietary choices and maintaining muscle mass via resistance training. Exercise, though not the primary driver for initial weight loss for most individuals, remains indispensable for sustaining weight loss and promoting overall health as one ages.

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Notable Quotes

• On Genetics and Disease Susceptibility:

  B (00:12): "East Asian people... South Asian people... cannot get as large BMI wise, before becoming at risk of type 2 diabetes... Polynesians... can get pretty large before they actually end up getting diseases."

• On the Obese Gene:

  B (02:50): "Leptin is the gene that I'm talking about in chapter two with the obese... it's the fat gene, meaning gene from fat, that lets your brain know how much fat you have."

• On Set Point Theory:

  B (05:06): "There is very little choice in inverted commas in where we end up with the body weight over a lifetime."

• On Aging and Metabolism:

  B (06:57): "As we get older... we tend to exercise less... we lose muscle mass. Those are all three things."

• On Exercise and Weight Maintenance:

  B (15:20): "Exercise... is a good weight maintenance tool."

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Key Takeaways

1. Genetics Play a Crucial Role: Genetic makeup significantly influences how individuals gain weight, store fat, and develop related health conditions.

2. Set Point Theory: The body naturally defends a certain weight range, making substantial weight loss or gain challenging without sustained effort.

3. Aging Influences Weight: Weight gain typically increases with age due to lifestyle changes and loss of muscle mass, with metabolism declining significantly after 60.

4. Diet Over Exercise for Weight Loss: For most people, dietary adjustments are more effective for initial weight loss than exercise alone.

5. Importance of Muscle Mass: Maintaining muscle mass through resistance training is vital for a healthy metabolism and overall health as one ages.

6. Psychological Factors Affect Exercise Efficacy: Post-exercise hunger and the psychological sense of having "earned" additional calories can undermine weight loss efforts.

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a nuanced perspective on weight management, highlighting that while exercise is essential for health and weight maintenance, dietary strategies play a more significant role in achieving and sustaining weight loss for the average person. Understanding the genetic and metabolic factors at play can empower individuals to adopt more effective and personalized approaches to managing their weight.

Transcript

[A]

With my genetic makeup.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

How might there be differences in my genetic makeup that make my relationship with food and eating and weight loss different from yours?

[B]

Oh, okay. I probably don't have as good an answer. Genetics does not have as good an answer about why different people eat differently, aside from cultural differences at the moment. Okay. So the genetics. The reason behind that is because it's very difficult to accurately determine what someone has eaten in order to do genetics. What we do know, because we can actually observe is how people of different ethnicities are susceptible to different diseases. So famously, East Asian people, people that look like me, South Asian people, Indian, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, cannot get as large BMI wise, before becoming at risk of type 2 diabetes. Right. Compared to white people, Polynesians, famously, who can get pretty large before they actually end up getting diseases. So that's a classic example where this is why South Asian people, East Asian people, have a higher predisposition of diabetes, even though obesity is not particularly a big thing in their cultures. But then you then begin to look at body shape. That does. That does matter as matter as well. Where do you put your fat? Do you tend to put the fat on your bum, on your tummy? You know, what is your. How tall are you, how short are you? And all of these things which we can see visually, we can see there are people who are then susceptible or not susceptible to specific diseases. Other things you can't see. Okay, why are African Americans, for example, more likely to end up with cardiovascular heart disease. Okay. Less likely with diabetes, whereas why are Indians, you know, more. And so that you then begin to ask the question, and there we have genetics.

[A]

What about in terms of this obese gene? I read in chapter two of your book that there is a gene for obesity.

[B]

There are more than a thousand genes for body weight. The obese gene in chapter two, which I talk about, is this leptin gene. It's this gene which lets your brain know how much fat you have. So that's the exact gene. Leptin is the gene that I'm talking about in chapter two with the obese. It's called the obese gene because the mouse was called obese. There was a lack of imagination because the mouse was a naturally occurring mouse that had a mutation in the same gene. Scientists found out what that was and then found out that it was conserved in humans. And that's where my boss, Steve O'Rahli, then came in and found that that gene was also mutated in. In some humans. So that's the obese gene. It's the fat gene. Fat gene, meaning gene from fat, that lets your brain know how much fat you have.

[A]

And is that possible to be not just on or off, but slightly defective? So some people can just get a little bit more hungry than others? Or is it a binary thing where it can be on or off?

[B]

So leptin, for whatever odd reason, is pretty much binary. So if you have a little bit of it, you're fine. If you have none of it, you're not. However, there is obviously a pathway, leptin signals to the brain, which signals to something else. And there is another gene that I looked at called MC4R. It's part of the pathway. It's part of the same fat sensing pathway that is a rare stat. It's like a thermostat. And so, for example, we have found thousands of different mutations in this gene and you can imagine that depending on the severity of the dysfunction, some are completely dead, some are 70% functional. We can predict how much someone will eat in a test buffet meal scenario if they have a 50% functioning gene versus a zero functioning gene. And we now know that 0.3% in this country at least. So 200,000 people in the UK, a million people in the United States will carry mutations in this MC4R gene, making them more likely to end up with obesity. So that at 18 years old, at 18 years old, if you carry a mutation in this MC4R gene, you are on average 18 kilos heavier, 40 pounds heavier at 18 years old on average. And that's 200,000 people in this country. So it's not super common. Right. It's still 99.7% of the people's body weight's not determined by this. But there are a lot of people's body weights who are dependent on this specific gene. But it is a tunable system, so it's a little bit or a lot means that you are the slightly heavier or a lot heavier.

[A]

So I'm thinking of some, you know, families often look quite similar in terms of body shape and size, et cetera. I'm wondering how much like control they have against fighting against those genes to get a six pack Abs. Not saying that's a sustainable or healthy place to get to, but is it significantly harder for certain people if their family is maybe a little bit more larger to get to fight against that and get to a different state and then stay in that state?

[B]

Yes, undoubtedly so. So there is certainly what we call, it used to be called a set point hypothesis, meaning that each of us has a weight we actually protect. It's probably more nuanced than that set range. There's a range that you can actually range that we find easy to keep their weight. So in other words, I'm not thinking about my body weight at the moment, and this is the weight that I am. But I wish I was half a stone or a stone lighter. But if I lost that half a stone, I would then have to think about food all the time to keep that half a stone off. Whereas I get half a stone more and I don't raise my weight anymore. So that's the idea. Where there's a. There. There is a. A weight range is easy to protect, and each of us is different. There are some people who are skinny. There are some people who just find it more difficult to say no to food than others. That's pretty much it. So some people's thermostat in food is set a little higher than others. And you defend that thermostat 25 degrees versus 20 degrees, and there's really next to nothing you can do. You can shift from 25 to 24 and a half, and maybe after Christmas, you're 25 and 0.5, okay? And so you shift around there, but the likelihood of you getting down to 20 and staying there, you can get down to 20 okay if you do some stupid diet. But the moment you're paying, you're paying back, you ping right back up again. So we do defend. There is very, very little choice in inverted commas in where we end up with the body weight over a lifetime. Any given meal, we have a choice. You think, right? Pizza or no pizza. Pizza or no pizza. But over thousands of feeding events, there's very little choice.

[A]

What then you reference age there? Do we get fatter with age? Because generally, I look at, you know, I'd say younger people typically have a slightly leaner physique, and then something seems to happen along the way. Is that just a false observation I have, or is there some science that supports the. The gaining of weight as we age?

[B]

There's science. A weight is inexorably up, okay, Even though we've stopped growing when we're. We're 18 years old. Actually, there's some latest science. I used to. I used to. If you would ask me the question five years ago, I would have said that by the time we hit 40 or 50, our metabolism starts to dip. That's part of the reason that's not true. As it turns out, our metabolism doesn't start to dip till we're 60. Okay? But what happens as we get older are a number of different things. First of all, we tend to get richer, we tend to get more money, we tend to sit on our ass more. Okay. Just in terms of the type of jobs we do. Okay. And because of both of those things, we tend to exercise less because we're busier and so we lose muscle mass. Those are all three things. Metabolically, the most active part of your body are the muscles. So when you're younger and you're doing things and you have more time to go to the gym, first of all, your metabolic rate is linked to the amount of muscle you have. And so as you get older, you're set on your arse, you eat a bit more, we don't eat less, we eat more. And we can buy richer food because we got more money and you begin to lose muscle mass. So all of those things put together means that you, you inexorably become larger. Then what happens at 60 years old, your metabolism then starts to drop as well and then you get even larger. Middle aged, spread, et cetera.

[A]

So on that point about the more muscles you have, the higher your metabolism, that's it. That means if I've got big muscles, then I'm burning my food faster.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Fantastic news. I'm going to work out later, lift some weights. Because I was really startled by that after I read it in your book about us gaining more and more weight as we age. I googled it and the Healthcare Research and Quality Agency said that we naturally tend to gain weight as we age to the tune of one to two pounds per year, according to their review. And that's from the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, which I found quite startling, but completely accurate.

[B]

So the numbers, so what the numbers that we have is. Yeah, I think that's right, actually. So between 20 and 50, 50 years old, those 30 years intervening, the average person, average will gain about 15 kilos in weight, which is 32 point. Yes. 2 pounds a year, 1 to 2 pounds a year. 15 kilos in weight is gained over 30 years on average. Some gain very little, others gain a hell of a lot more. We look at ourselves in a mirror. I look at myself in the mirror. But it's true.

[A]

I don't want to be that guy, mate.

[B]

I don't know how much choice you have.

[A]

What can I do to try and stay? Because for me it's not really about the weight thing or how you look. It's more about like I, I am, I don't know how to Say this, there was this big set of stairs the other day, really, really long set of stairs leading down to this lake. I was in Indonesia a couple of months ago and I remember thinking about those stairs and thinking, God, if I wasn't, you know, athletic and strong and didn't have good knees and things like that, there's no way I'd be able to get down this long, winding, hand carved set of Indonesian stairs so that I could go on this boat trip that I was gonna go on. And I just thought about how it was a weird thing. I know this is kind of a strange story to tell, but it crossed my mind. I got to the bottom of the stairs and I turned to the person I was with and was literally like, that's why I've got to stay in shape for as long as I can, because I want to do these boat trips and I want to go on this little rafting thing, but I won't even be able to access it unless I can go down, up and down Those stairs, like 200 meters of stairs down this cliff. So that's what I care about. I care about being active and strong and fit and for as long as I possibly can. And I, from what you said about gravity and weight, being overweight is going to inhibit my chances of being able to do those stairs.

[B]

So. So that I think there are two elements there. First of all, there is doing the things that we want to do, okay? Like that, because you're exactly right. These are the things which I can still do that I can still walk up a mountain or down a mountain, because I'm still fit enough to do that. And I want to stay as fit as long as I can to do that. And weight will inhibit that, undoubtedly. But then there's a second element to actually consider now. There's healthy. Look, none of us are going to live longer. We hopefully. And anyway, if we lived longer but was unhealthy, would you want to live longer? So you want to live longer, but healthier for longer. Okay? And undoubtedly, the thing that is closest related to health when you age is not your total weight. There's a role to play there. The amount of muscle you have, it is your muscle mass as you age, independent of how much fat you have, okay? That will determine how healthy you are as you age. So as, so now the moment, now I'm talking about going into the 60s, into the 70s, rather than when one is able to go down a 200 meter set of steps, okay? So now as you get older, the most crucial Bit of information is to maintain resistance training, not lifting it. That's not what I'm talking about. Sitting on a wall, getting up and down a chair because that the amount of muscle mass you have really, really, really marks the level of health that you're going to get. And then the science is startling. It is so, so, so related. Independent of, independent of weight, you know, from there. So muscle mass is the most important for healthy aging. The moment you get 60, 70 plus.

[A]

Interesting. Okay, so I'll keep, I'll keep doing resistance training, Correct? Always keep resistance training and lifting weights as long as I can.

[B]

Lifting weights as long as you can. At some point you won't be able to lift weights.

[A]

Just don't write me off. Don't write me off, Jaz.

[B]

The hubris of youth.

[A]

Yeah. That's the naivety of youth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You just assume you'll always be able to do what you can do now. Yeah. It's something I think a lot about and I think a lot of people will watch this podcast because probably especially this time of year we're in January, they'll probably be trying to find ways that they can cut fat. They want to be a bit skinnier. You said, you said half a stone you want to lose. I'm in the same place, I think most people want to lose a half a stone or something. What is the way that you would suggest to do that? The simple way, you know, not the like in complicated. Go buy this guy's course and do 3 million sit ups. Whatever. The simple advice you would give someone that's hoping to create sort of sustainable weight loss.

[B]

Okay, so this, this something's like the last page of the why Calories Don't Count book. But it is a set of numbers. And I know I said not to count calories, but it's a set of numbers that is that you can apply to whatever diet you like. So the first is the amount of protein you eat. And you need to try and focus on trying to keep to about 16% of the energy in your day. Okay. From protein. So 16%. And there's a sweet spot. So if you eat too much and you're not lifting, you're stressing your kidneys because your kidneys have to get rid of the nitrogen from the protein. Okay, so 16% is a sweet spot. And it doesn't mean steaks only. It can mean beans, tofu, any kind of protein from, from anywhere. 16%. Second is fiber. We need to eat as much fiber as physically possible. Okay, 30 grams. We want to Aim for or. Although we are looking at the moment, on average in this country, we're probably only eating 15 grams. We need to double the amount of fiber we actually eat. Third, we need to limit the amount of added sugars into our diet. Added sugars, meaning sugars not tied up in fiber, powdered stuff, maple syrup, Algarve, nectar, All those are added sugars you put in. Keep it to 5% or less of the energy content in your day. And Those are the three numbers that I want you to think about. So 16% of protein, 30 grams of fiber, 5% or less of added sugars. Apply that to whatever you want. What, Keto. Whatever you want to do, apply that. And I think that will be a sustainable, healthy way to eat.

[A]

Now, there's been a lot said about exercise as a weight loss strategy. A lot of people think, do you know what? I will just run every day and I'll lose weight. In your books, you said the problem with using exercise as a weight loss strategy is that doing exercise makes you feel hungry. You can't outrun a bad diet. Is exercise a good strategy for weight loss?

[B]

It is a good strategy for weight loss if you're an Olympic athlete or a Tour de France rider.

[A]

What if you are a muggle like me?

[B]

A muggle like you? A muggle like me. Then exercise, okay? Exercise. You can never replace the goodness and wonderfulness and health benefits of exercise.

[A]

Is exercise a good weight loss strategy for a muggle like Steve?

[B]

No. It's a good weight maintenance tool, though. So in other words, once you've lost the weight, which means you need to be less, somehow exercise helps you keep the weight off. So once you've actually lost the weight that you, that you're aiming for, whatever, whatever that might be, then do the exercise. And that will help keep the weight off.

[A]

But it's not going to help me get the weight off in the first place.

[B]

No.

[A]

That seems to sit in contradiction to what my old personal trainer.

[B]

Only because we don't do it enough. So now, if you had. Okay, let's put it this way. Let's put it this way. The way that it would work is if you had a personal trainer and a chef, then what would happen is your personal trainer will make you work hard and your chef will make your meal. Okay? Therefore, what happens is it's controlled on both sides. That is not typically what happens in the real world. I go on my run, my cycle, what have you. I come back, I'm ravenously hungry, I open the fridge and I stuff my Mouth full of carbs. That is. That. That. That is my story. Right. And so it is very difficult to control your diet after you've done long, hard exercise bouts because you get ravenously hungry. So professional sports teams, a, they exercise ridiculous. They train three times a day, so that. There's that. But they still have chefs and dietitians and they eat what they. What, what they. The, you know, the canteen puts up for them, which is healthy food. So someone is looking after their D, but they are burning so much, they don't have to worry too much about how much they eat, whereas we do. I know it's counterintuitive in some sense, but it's purely because we don't exercise enough.

[A]

And is that also because. Ultimately, because the brain is controlling our feeding behavior. So the brain knows that we've just been for a run, so it's adding to our appetite, a surplus to make us return to that. That weight it's trying to protect.

[B]

There's that and there's also our own internal psychology on it, because now you feel a bit smug. You say, oh, I went for my run on Sunday morning, you know, ooh, and then so I can eat what I want. And there's that element too. So suddenly when you normally would say, oh, I better not eat so much today, I haven't. There are some internal controls that we sometimes have. Those internal controls are weakened once we've actually had our exercise because we feel that we have earned the food that's in front of us.

[A]

The hardest conversations are often the ones we avoid. But what if you had the right question to start them with? Every single guest on the Diary of SEO has left behind a question in this diary, and it's a question designed to challenge, to connect, and to go deeper with the next guest. And these are all the questions that I have here in my hand. On one side, you've got the question that was asked, the name of the person who wrote it. And on the other side, if you scan that, you can watch the person who came after who answered it. 51 questions split across three different levels. The warm up level, the open up level, and the deep level. So you decide how deep the conversation goes. And people play these conversation cards in boardrooms, at work, in bedrooms, alone, at night and on first dates, and everywhere in between. I'll put a link to the conversation cards in the description below and you can get [e-mail].