Interviewer (7:36)

Isn't that point of view? I've got two questions here. The first is how do you know that it's stress? And the second is if it is stress, then that the problem, or at least the inconvenient truth that then creates, is that the parent is responsible.

Expert Psychologist (7:51)

Yes, there's the inconvenient truth for that child's adhd. Yes, yes, that's the inconvenient truth. It's not so simple. Sometimes it's the families. Usually it's the family, particularly with small children. But when children get to school, it could be social. As I said, you can't control whether your children are exposed to social issues or bullying or there's many things that can cause stress in children, but when they're very little, you are their environment. So the inconvenient truth is that when your child gets an ADHD diagnosis, the first thing you should do is go to a therapist who will do Parent guidance with you. Don't rush that child to a psychiatrist to medicate them. You go with your partner or spouse and talk to a parent guidance expert about what could be causing this child to feel such stress. And look at the psychosocial stressors. Look at the influences and the dynamics in this child's life that would be causing them to go into a state of stress like this.

Interviewer (8:54)

Give me some examples of the type of stresses, the everyday stresses that we're now exposing children to that are leading to adhd, in your opinion?

Expert Psychologist (9:01)

Well, again, let's start at home. At home, the stresses might be that they were handed over to a daycare center at an early age, which turned that amygdala response on, which turned the stress regulating part of their brain on. Too early. Now you have that hypervigilant reaction and they can't turn it off. Right. It could be a divorce situation. 50% of couples divorce, which means that divorce is an adversity. You know, I have a book coming out in a year about how to divorce and mitigate the impact of the divorce on the child. But no matter what, a divorce is an adversity on a child and a stress when parents fight dramatically in the home. If there's tremendous sibling rivalry issues in the home, if there's the birth of another child, it's stressful, right? If you have a sibling, believe it or not, that's a very stressful thing. If parents are sensitive about that, then it can be mitigated. But if parents are insensitive about the birth of a second child and the feelings that your first child may have, that can cause stress. Moving can cause stress. Illness or mental illness in a parent can cause stress. Alcoholism, any kind of addiction can cause stress. A grandparent or uncle or aunt or even a parent getting sick and dying can cause. I mean, there are so many things that can cause stress. But the point is that stress can be regulated. But it can only be regulated if parents are introspective and self aware and willing to look at their part in it. If parents hand a child over to a psychiatrist and say, fix my child, of course psychiatrists will cooperate with you and silence your child's pain. But is that really what you want to be doing? Because in the end, you're just putting your finger in a dike, you're putting your finger in a dam, and eventually that dam is going to burst, what.

Interviewer (10:58)

Do you say to some of the evidence around there being a link to a hereditary component? In twin studies, they found that ADHD is about 74 to 80% heritable, making it one of the most genetically influenced psychiatric conditions.

Expert Psychologist (11:11)

Let me tell you a different study that will help you to understand that study, which is that we know that there is no genetic precursor to mental illness, there is no genetic precursor to adhd, there is no genetic precursor to depression, and no genetic precursor to anxiety.

Interviewer (11:29)

What do you mean by precursor?

Expert Psychologist (11:30)

Meaning there's no genetic connection. You don't get it in your genes if your father or your mother were depressed. You get it by something called the inheritance of acquired characteristics. If you're raised by a depressed parent, you're more likely to become depressed. It's the nature nurture argument. Okay, but what they did find. Now, schizophrenia has a genetic connection. Bipolar disorder, those have genetic. But the rest do not. Anxiety, depression, adhd, no genetics. What they did find is a genetic tie to something called the sensitivity gene. It's a short allele on the serotonin receptor. And serotonin, as we know, is used to regulate happy emotions. To regulate emotions. Right. So when you have a short allele, it means that you have a harder time picking up the serotonin, but it also means that you are more sensitive to stress. Now, those children who are born with this gene, this short allele on the serotonin receptor gene, they are more prone to mental illness later on because of that sensitivity to stress. What the study shows is if those children who are born with that gene for sensitivity are provided with emotionally and physically present attachment security in the first year, it neutralizes the expression of that gene. So epigenetics means that we're born with genes like you might have a gene for rheumatoid arthritis, or you might have a gene for cancer, but it never gets expressed. Well, we all have genes for something, but they don't necessarily get expressed. That's what epigenetics is. It means the environment has to turn on the gene to make it. Let's rock and roll. Right. What it showed in this study is that the children who were born with this genetic precursor, this sensitivity to stress, if they had sensitive empathic nurturing and present parents in the first year, it neutralized the expression of that gene, so those children could be as healthy as children born without that gene. If, however, children born with that sensitivity gene were neglected, abandoned, not provided with sensitive empathic present nurturing, it exacerbated that gene. So we know that that sensitivity gene is tied and correlated to mental illness later on, unless the sensitive empathic nurturing mitigates that gene.

Interviewer (14:07)

And what do you Say to people.

Expert Psychologist (14:08)

That point to MRI scans, FMRIs, and yeah, there's all kinds of neurological tests now where we can see the brain in action. So it's not a static thing. We can actually see the blood flow to the brain. We can see the electrical activity in the brain. It's amazing, actually.

Interviewer (14:28)

But some people say that this proves that it's the way your brain is. And lots of my friends that have adhd, when they talk about their ADHD or the way that they are, they say, my brain works like this.

Expert Psychologist (14:39)

No, it's not correct. Their brain is sensitive to stress. Someone with ADHD is more sensitive to stress. So you could ask them questions like this. You could say, are you a more sensitive person? Are you more sensitive to noise, you to smells, to touch? When you were a child, did you not like itchy things? Did you cry more? Were you more sensitive when your parents would go out for the night? Were you more sensitive when your mom would go to work? Or were you more sensitive when you were left at nursery school? And they're probably going to say yes.

Interviewer (15:12)

But if they say no and they still have an ADHD diagnosis, I would.

Expert Psychologist (15:15)

Guarantee, almost guarantee, they wouldn't say no, because people with ADHD are people who are sensitive. Sensitivity is an amazing strength if it's met with sensitivity. If you have a sensitive child. So what does a sensitive child look like? If you have multiple children, then you know, because the first thing I'll do when I give a public talk is I'll say, okay, any. Everybody here who has a sensitive child and I describe, okay, sensitive child is a child who cries more, is harder to soothe, is more clingy, doesn't like you leaving them, has a harder time separating, has a harder time going to sleep and being left to sleep on their own, is sensitive to things like noise and smells and touch.

Interviewer (16:03)

If you grew up in an environment that was stressful, and again, you've identified that stress can come in many forms. It could be arguing parents, it could be a neighbor or whatever, some environmental factor that caused that stress. You were sensitive, you developed ADHD. You become an adult. You get diagnosed at 30 years old as having ADHD. You're offered medication. You take the medication. The medication makes you much more functional in your career, in your relationships, in your life.

Expert Psychologist (16:29)

It's a stimulant. And so what stimulants do is they can cause great anxiety, they can cause panic attacks in adolescents, they can cause growth issues. So I have patients who come to me, young men who didn't grow because they were put on stimulants when they were young. So in terms of the consequences of using stimulants, the jury is still out. But we know that they cause growth issues, they cause panic attacks, they cause anxiety disorders, they cause depression.

Interviewer (17:02)

They're quite life saving. They're quite life saving for some people in terms of having a.

Expert Psychologist (17:06)

They can be. They can be. So what I would say is if you have tried everything to uncover what the stress is that's causing you to react this way and you still are feeling that way, then sometimes medication can be a lifesaver. The problem is that we turn to medication in adolescents and children and young adults. We turn to it as a performance drug because there's so much stress in modern life and there's such a need for people to perform and be successful in their careers and in school and get grades. There's so much pressure on kids. So, you know, I'm 60 and we didn't have this kind of pressure growing up. And so the generations that follow have so much pressure. That pressure makes children literally go off the rails. We could talk about the academic pressure, the competitiveness, the perfectionism. So ADHD is a bucket. It's a bucket which you throw people in who have anxiety that has never been treated. And there's different ways of thinking about treatment too. So we are a society that likes superficial quick fixes. We like drugs, we like CBT therapy. The truth is that this is not a quick fix. Figuring out relationally, dynamically, what happened to you as a child, what your losses were, what your traumas were, what caused you to feel so anxious, what's caused you to go into fight or flight is hard work. It requires frustration. It requires commitment. It requires going to someone who can think very deeply with you. You know, I want to define what anxiety is because I think it's really important because we rarely define depression and anxiety. Depression is preoccupation with past losses. Anxiety is preoccupation with future losses that may never occur. What do they have in common?

Interviewer (19:20)

It's all about losses, all about loss.

Expert Psychologist (19:25)

And you could say the generations now are very preoccupied with loss.

Interviewer (19:33)

Loss of status, achievement. But because we're also very preoccupied with gain.

Expert Psychologist (19:41)

Well, we're preoccupied with what I say. The. You know, I don't want to judge, but I want to say the unimportant things in life. What are the important things in life? Relationships, love, connection, health. Right. You would say objectively, family. These are the important things in life. But we've become very preoccupied with material success. Money, career achievements, fame. I think there was a study that interviewed teenagers and it was really discouraging because they said that the thing they wanted more in life than anything was to be famous. And so we're preoccupied with the wrong things.

Interviewer (20:29)

On this point of stress and the link with ADHD, looking at some research from the injury.com research education group, it says that children with an ACE score, which is the trauma score, where I think it goes up to 10 different sort of questions with an ACE score of four or more. So four experiences of trauma or more have nearly four times, which is 400% more chance of having parent reported ADHD compared to children with no aces. And some of the factors that have big impact is socioeconomic hardship increases your probability of having ADHD by 40%. Parental divorce by 35%. Familial mental illness. So a parent having a mental illness increases it up to almost 60%, 55%, I believe. And neighborhood violence, almost 50%. Familial incarceration. So if a parent goes to prison, then that increases your probability of ADHD by about 40% as well. And that's published by the. I think it's the New England.

Expert Psychologist (21:28)

Yeah.

Interviewer (21:29)

What is. Or the National Library of Medicine, national center of Biological Information.

Expert Psychologist (21:32)

Yeah. So remember what I said, that you can't control everything that happens to your child. Divorces do happen and adversities happen to children. Health, health issues happen to children. What you can control is you can control the first three years and be as present as possible for your child.

Interviewer (21:51)

So if my kid starts screaming in a supermarket, one of the prevailing pieces of advice says just walk off or start screaming yourself as the parent to show them. Am I supposed to just ignore my child when it's screaming and throwing a tantrum? Am I meant to drop what I'm doing and go and cater to them? What am I meant to do in these situations?

Expert Psychologist (22:09)

You're have me on speed dial.

Interviewer (22:11)

Stephen, you be careful because if you make a promise like that.

Expert Psychologist (22:14)

I promise, I promise I'll be on.

Interviewer (22:16)

You really want to drop your career and focus on raising my children?

Expert Psychologist (22:19)

You can. No, but you can call me.

Interviewer (22:21)

I've got this on video. That's legally binding.

Expert Psychologist (22:23)

No, you can have me on speed now. How much? Yeah, you can. As much as you want. So the deal is you don't yell at your children. An emotionally regulated parent, a healthy parent, produces a healthy child. So what is a healthy parent? A healthy parent is a parent who feels good about themselves, who has authentically good self esteem, not grandiosity. But really feels good about themselves, knows their strengths and limitations. And overall, as a whole person, feels good about themselves. They have the capacity to regulate their emotions to keep their emotions from going too high and too low. Remember, sailing in the Caribbean, meaning they can stay calm in a storm, Is sensitive and empathic as a nurturer. These are signs of health in a parent.

Interviewer (23:11)

So if my kid says, I want that pack of sweets, And I go, you can't have that pack of sweets.

Expert Psychologist (23:17)

Well, first you have to. So before you discipline, you always want to be empathic first. So I always say that if you are going to discipline a child, first you have to recognize how they feel. I mean, recognizing how children feel is important anyway. Meaning when you recognize a child's feelings, if they're sad, you mirror their sadness. If they're angry, you say, I can see you're angry. If they're happy, you look happy with them. That kind of reflects is the way that your child knows that you acknowledge them, that they're a person to you, that they're a separate person to you. It's how they feel valuable. So when you acknowledge their feelings, that's the first critical. You'd say, Parenting 101, acknowledge your child's feelings.

Interviewer (24:05)

So I would turn to my child and say, you want sweets? Are you hungry?

Expert Psychologist (24:08)

Yeah. You can say, I can see that you really want that packet of sweets. I can see how hard it is because you really want it. But you know, you can't have it before dinner. You know, that's the rule.

Interviewer (24:18)

And then they start screaming and praying.

Expert Psychologist (24:19)

And then they start screaming, and you say, broken record is a communication style where you say, oh, I can see it's really hard for you, but you still can't have the sweets. And you stay with them and you keep empathizing and then setting structure. Empathizing structure, empathizing structure. The mistake that parents make is that they go right into the no word. They don't use empathy. They don't bring empathy in. And the truth is that even as an adult, if somebody just says no without first recognizing how you feel, you feel very unsatisfied. Right. For a child, it's critical. It's critical that even when you have to say no, and particularly if you have to say no, that you first recognize how they feel.

Interviewer (25:05)

I mean, that's what all the relationship experts on the show tell me. They say if you want to be successful in a romantic relationship, then you first must make your partner feel heard and understood.

Expert Psychologist (25:14)

That's right.

Interviewer (25:14)

Even if you disagree in an argument, first acknowledge what they said, maybe repeat it back to them, and then they'll feel heard and understood and it kind of stops the broken record. What you just listened to was a most replayed moment from a previous episode. If you want to listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below. Check the description. Thank you.