Most Replayed Moment: The Gottman Doctors Guide to Better Sex and Stronger Connections

Summary

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Most Replayed Moment - The Gottman Doctors Guide to Better Sex and Stronger Connections

Release Date: July 11, 2025

In this compelling episode of "The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett," host John delves deep into the intricate dynamics of sex and intimacy within modern relationships. Joined by relationship experts Julie and Emily, the discussion navigates the complexities of sexual preferences, emotional connections, and the evolving roles of men and women in today’s society. Below is a detailed summary capturing the essence of their enlightening conversation.

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1. Understanding Sexual Preferences and Relationship Success

The episode begins with John posing critical questions about the role of sex in relationships: "How much should we be having sex? Does it really matter? Is it a predictor of long-term success in marriage?" ([00:23]). Julie responds by highlighting the vast variability in sexual preferences among couples. She explains that some couples thrive with little to no sexual activity, fostering a "sibling-like relationship," while others prioritize frequent intimacy as a cornerstone of their bond ([00:40]).

Notable Quote:

"Some couples actually don't want to have sex at all. Both people don't want to have sex. They'd rather have kind of a sibling relationship almost. If they're both content with that, then they can have a very successful relationship." — Julie ([00:40])

2. The Language of Intimacy: Touch vs. Sex

Julie identifies a common issue where partners speak "two different languages of intimacy." Men, often needing physical touch, may equate intimacy solely with penetrative sex, while women might seek emotional connection and affection ([02:19]). This mismatch can lead to feelings of deprivation and conflict, as illustrated by her example of a man feeling he’s not getting enough sex and a woman feeling she’s not receiving enough affection ([02:19]).

Notable Quote:

"It's like they're speaking two different languages of intimacy, if you know what I mean." — John ([02:10])

3. Foreplay and Emotional Connection Enhance Sexual Life

John and Julie discuss the concept that "life is foreplay," emphasizing that everyday affectionate acts like kissing and cuddling are investments in the sexual relationship ([02:52]-[03:12]). Emily reinforces this by stating, "Every positive thing you do in a relationship is foreplay," noting that couples who cease having sex often also shut down other aspects of their relationship, leading to a decline in overall happiness and connection ([03:13]).

Notable Quote:

"Every positive thing you do in a relationship is foreplay." — Emily ([03:13])

4. Psychological Safety: A Pillar for Women’s Sexuality

Emily introduces insights from her book, highlighting that women require psychological safety to feel sexual ([05:00]). She explains that:

"Women need to feel psychologically safe. And that means emotional connection..." ([05:11])

Julie adds a critical perspective on the historical and societal factors contributing to women's need for safety, mentioning the high prevalence of sexual assault and its impact on women's relationship dynamics ([05:52]).

Notable Quote:

"Women need to feel psychologically safe. And that means emotional connection." — Emily ([05:11])

5. The Impact of Epigenetics and Historical Trauma

John brings up epigenetics, discussing how trauma can be transmitted across generations. Julie acknowledges this by citing the significant number of women who have experienced sexual assault by age 18, underscoring why emotional safety is paramount for women in sexual relationships ([06:46]).

Notable Quote:

"One out of four women have been sexually molested or sexually assaulted by the age of 18." — Julie ([06:46])

6. Communication: The Key to a Thriving Sexual Relationship

The conversation shifts to the importance of open communication about sex. Emily confirms that couples who regularly discuss their sexual relationship tend to have better sex lives ([18:10]). Julie introduces their "got sex" kit, a set of structured conversations designed to help couples navigate discussions about their sexual preferences and boundaries ([18:38]).

Notable Quote:

"Couples who talk much more openly and more comfortably about that do much better sexually." — Julie ([19:25])

7. Societal Changes and Their Effects on Relationships

Julie discusses the rise of hookup culture in the United States, describing it as "loveless" sex that lacks emotional connection, leading to feelings of emptiness post-encounter ([08:26]). She attributes these changes to factors like increased divorce rates and women's growing participation in the workforce, which have reshaped traditional relationship expectations ([09:02]-[10:22]).

Notable Quote:

"I would say it's loveless... there's no emotional connection. It's impersonal sex." — Julie ([08:26])

8. Evolving Gender Roles and Men's Struggles with Identity

The dialogue explores how shifting gender roles have left many men feeling emasculated and uncertain about their place in modern relationships. Julie shares her personal conflict between pursuing a career and traditional expectations of being a housewife, a struggle mirrored by many men today ([10:22]-[13:29]).

Notable Quote:

"It's really hard on men. ... men are having a hard time figuring out what their role is and who they want to be compared with women." — Julie ([14:00])

9. Navigating Contradictions in Partner Preferences

John and Julie discuss the seemingly contradictory desires of wanting a partner who is both strong and emotionally open. Julie clarifies that strength doesn't equate to emotional unavailability, emphasizing that true strength includes the courage to express emotions ([16:58]-[17:45]).

Notable Quote:

"Being strong doesn't mean being unemotional. Sometimes it takes more strength and courage to voice emotion." — Julie ([16:58])

10. The Crucial Role of Conversation in Sexual Fulfillment

Concluding the discussion, Emily and Julie reiterate that couples who engage in open, accepting conversations about sex enjoy more fulfilling sexual lives. They advocate for structured dialogues and the use of tools like "got sex" to facilitate these important discussions ([18:20]-[20:32]).

Notable Quote:

"You need to talk about it in a way that is accepting and loving." — Emily ([18:20])

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers invaluable insights into the nuanced interplay between sex, intimacy, and emotional connection in relationships. By addressing the evolving dynamics of gender roles, the significance of psychological safety, and the paramount importance of open communication, John, Julie, and Emily provide listeners with actionable strategies to foster stronger, more fulfilling connections with their partners.

For those seeking to deepen their understanding of relationship dynamics and enhance their intimate lives, this episode serves as a comprehensive guide grounded in research and expert advice.

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Connect with the Hosts and Learn More:

• Steven Bartlett's New Book: Link
• Instagram: @steven
• LinkedIn: Steven Bartlett

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If you enjoyed this summary, be sure to follow "The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett" for more insightful episodes uncovering the journeys of influential leaders and thinkers.

Transcript

[John]

The Diary of SEO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. What do you think about the subject of sex, Julie? And you know how important it is for a relationship. How much should we be having sex? Does it really matter? Is it a predictor of long term success in marriage?

[Julie]

Great questions that my clients ask me a lot. And there's huge variability in sexual preference. Some couples actually don't want to have sex at all. Both people don't want to have sex. They'd rather have kind of a sibling relationship almost. If they're both content with that, then they can have a very successful relationship. Some couples really want to have sex a lot, you know, all the time. And it's a really important component of the relationship. And everything in between, when you run into trouble is the following. And I've seen this so many times, the men who, I guess I would say are hyper masculine, they think that cuddling is too infantile, so they don't want to cuddle. And the only way they can accept physical contact, which they desperately need, is through sex, period.

[John]

Penetrative sex.

[Julie]

Penetrative sex, that's right. And the woman has 17 children. She's trying to make dinner. You know, she's exhausted. She may not want to have sex nearly as much as he does. So he begins to feel deprived of touch. But instead of complaining about that, he says, we're not having enough sex. And she says, I'm not getting enough affection. And there you have some conflict that has to get sorted out.

[John]

It's like they're speaking two different languages of intimacy, if you know what I mean.

[Julie]

Basically, in a sense, they are. They are. Though typically the men in these relationships really basically need touch. And can they accept cuddling as something that's just as masculine as penetrative sex? Well, if they really think about it and if they experience it, then yeah, they can, then things really will tend to improve.

[John]

The research there, John, is suggesting though, as you said, that life is foreplay because if like the kissing on the way out the door and the touching my partner's back and the cuddle leads to a better sex Life, then we should see life, public displays of affection, all that kind of thing, as an investment in what happens tonight in the bedroom.

[Julie]

Right.

[Emily]

I think that's really true. Every positive thing you do in a relationship is foreplay. And the couples who. A lot of times the couples who stop having sex have also shut down high conflict. Couples who stop having sex have shut down other things, other sensual parts of their lives as well. You know, they're not having much fun. And, you know, 80% of the 40,000 couples we studied said that fun had come to die in the relationship. There wasn't much play. There wasn't much adventure. It wasn't just sex. Everything shut down. All the things that were really delightful, you know, exploring new kinds of cuisine, you know, traveling, playing games together, you know, playing sports together.

[John]

How do we stop that happening, though, you know, because I've often wondered. People often said to me that eroticism and attraction is about novelty and spontaneousness and doing all that kind of thing. And then they've said that love is about familiarity and, you know, comfort, which are. These are two opposite things.

[Julie]

Let me answer that. The person who said that it's all about spontaneity and mystery and so on, has never done any research. The research shows that the familiarity, the emotional connection, really knowing your partner creates in the long run, much more passion. What? Much better sex, actually, than maintaining mystery but not really connecting to one another the way people need to.

[Emily]

There's a wonderful book by Emily Nagoski called Come as yous Are that reviews this research, and it shows that, first of all, women have more prerequisites for eroticism than men do. Jeffrey Chase once said, women need a reason for sex. Men need a place. That's all. So, you know. But it's true. Men. Men don't need to feel safe to feel sexual. Women do. Women need to feel psychologically safe. And that means emotional connection. It also means there can't be a long to do list of things that they have to get done that's been neglected. The dog's been taken out, you know, and has done his business and all of that. And then the situation feels erotic to a woman and she's receptive.

[Julie]

Let me point out something in addition to that that most men don't know. At least in the United States, one out of four women have been sexually molested or sexually assaulted by the age of 18. And that's only the women who report it. It's probably one out of three, maybe 40%, including the ones who haven't reported it. So when women have that history, not to mention thousands of years in their bones of being seen only as sex objects and being raped, you know, every other day, you get to understand why women need safety much more so than men.

[Emily]

We wrote a book called A Man's Guide to Women to convey all of these bits of information that have been researched. So familiarity is the basis for eroticism, not for the absence of eroticism. That's a myth.

[John]

So I've heard a lot about epigenetics recently, which is this idea that trauma can be passed on from one generation to the next. And with that in mind, if women have been sort of sex objects throughout history and have been raped and those kinds of things, it's understandable that, as you say, Julie, that they have, like, an inbuilt need for safety that men might not understand in the same way.

[Julie]

Exactly.

[John]

Which. What does that say from. To a man, what advice do you then give to a man is. Is the advice you have to make your partner feel safe for them to be aroused.

[Emily]

Right.

[John]

Or to. Okay, yes. What else was in that book, by the way? It's quite an interesting book. I feel like I need to read it.

[Emily]

It's. Well, you know, it's really that awareness of emotional connection and psychological safety being so important to women and also realizing that men who do housework get a lot more sex.

[John]

Is that something Julie told you, or.

[Emily]

Is that actually an empirical result?

[Julie]

Yeah, but specifically, honey, they have to do the vacuuming.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[John]

Get the books off the bed. Interesting. Okay. Are you seeing a difference in our relationship with sex as the world is changing? Because there's some stats that suggest we're getting more and more sexless as a society. Have you seen any changes in your 50 years studying love towards attitudes about sex or, you know, gender roles have changed in that time as well in society.

[Julie]

So, you know, I wouldn't say it's sexless, but I would say it's loveless. More loveless in the sense, you know, again, I don't know what it's like in England or in other countries so much, but in the United States, the hookup culture is a. Is alive and thriving. There's so many websites in which men and men, women and women, men and women are just hooking up, meaning meeting up for the first time, having sex and departing the end.

[John]

Is that a problem?

[Julie]

Yes. You know why? Because in that kind of sex, there's no emotional connection. Zero. And I've heard this from both men and women, actually, that when they leave, they feel more empty than before they started having that sex.

[John]

Why do you think that is?

[Julie]

No emotional connection. It's impersonal sex. They don't know who they're having sex with. So, you know, it's almost like masturbating practically. So, you know, there's a lot of couples who are doing that, but they're not committing in long term relationships as much as they used to. And I think there's several factors involved in that. One is they've seen their parents divorce, so they don't believe in marriage or commitment as an institution that they should live too. Secondly, women have come into the workforce again in the last 50 years and career is equally important to many women as it is to men.

[John]

On that point, do you see issues with women becoming more successful in that, emasculating men to some degree? Because I read about a study that said there's an expectation in society for men to provide more at home financially. And then a separate study showed that women and women's sort of equality with men in terms of their pay and education has, is getting closer. And then the third study says that men can feel emasculated in the presence of a smarter, more successful women and they find it less attractive. So if you put all this together and you go, okay, women are getting richer and more intelligent, men are emasculated by that, but men still have this ex social expectation that they'll pay the bill. In that framework you go, jesus Christ, this is going to be difficult for, you know, I mean, you can look at it another way and say there's less of a pool for women who typically want to date men that have a certain level of education and a certain level of money. The pool is smaller than ever before. So is this, you know, this is some of the issues of the, some of the challenges of the modern world.

[Julie]

You're right. Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. The roles are really changing. And you know, I remember this feeling myself actually as I built my career and John and I were together and I kept thinking, no, no, no, I should be a housewife. I should just be a mom. I should just be taking care of the home. I shouldn't be devoting all this time to my career. But I love my career, I want to work. And so there would be this turmoil inside about who should I be. And I think men are feeling that too. For example, as I said earlier, men are really wanting to be fathers more. But how can you be an involved father when you're working like crazy extra overtime to make more Money, Right. It's impossible. Also, those old myths have a hard time falling away, that men who make more money, have more status, have more value as human beings, are better partners. That's so. Are more male, are more male, are more masculine. It's so not true. Another thing to keep in mind is, is that women used to make 79 cents for every dollar that men made. Now they make 81 cents for every dollar. You think that's a big change? It is not. So women are still fighting for equality in terms of career opportunities, work opportunities and so on, and valuing their career. Men sometimes, you know, are struggling, who should I be now? I used to be the provider. Who should I be?

[John]

Well, that's what we've learned, right? Because we come from a generation where, like, my father might have been the provider and my granddad was the provider. So I've modeled that and said, well, for me to be a man like my father and I need to be able to do this.

[Julie]

But that's right. That's right.

[John]

It's a good thing that we're getting closer to equality, of course. And I know the pay gap is still. There's still a distance there between men and women, but it kind of. You can see there being some kind of challenge for men who now don't know their role, but society still has an expectation that they'll pick up the bill.

[Julie]

Probably.

[John]

You bet.

[Julie]

You bet.

[John]

It's a difficult conundrum, isn't it? But it's.

[Julie]

Well, it's really hard on men. You know, I think men in many ways are having as hard, if not harder time now in figuring out what their role is and who they want to be compared with women. I mean, our fight started earlier, right? It started in the 70s with women's liberation, and men kind of sat back and went, what?

[John]

What's happening?

[Emily]

I think men are discovering the importance of relationships. You know, we typically have had worse emotional support systems. You know, many men don't have the best friend, don't have close friends, and their only really close connection is with the woman that they live with and. Or married to. And so I think men are discovering how important social connection is in their lives compared to achievement. You know, I mean, there's this lie that got sold to women that if they really are the caretakers who of relationships, they'll be happy. The lie to men is if you are successful in your career, you'll be happy. Neither lie is really useful because both men and women need close connections. We need friends. We need, you know, there's an epidemic of loneliness in the world right now. And that's a killer. We really need to reach out more to not only to make good friends, but also reach out to strangers, create community. And that needs to change.

[Julie]

You know what's really interesting? I mean just think about it. If you go on the Internet and you look at what women are looking for in a partner, what's the first word they say? They don't say rich. They don't say highly successful, great achievements. Typically they say sensitive. Right, sensitive, emotionally aware, caring. So hopefully men can absorb that.

[John]

Is that it's interesting because they do say that. And then they also say strong and they say can protect me. And again it feels like a poll because on one end it appears that that sort of sensitive emotional openness somewhat since in contrast to like the.

[Julie]

Well, you have a very lucky part.

[John]

These people probably listening don't even know what I did. But I was just flexing my guns. It was the gun show. So like you said, I'm saying it feels like a contradiction. It's like how do you be this and this? The testosterone filled beats that's going to save the day and then the true.

[Julie]

But keep in mind that being strong doesn't mean being unemotional. Sometimes it takes more strength and courage to voice emotion than it does to shut them down and what they're talking about. You know, let's not forget that women are still getting raped, still getting assaulted, still getting attacked everywhere, still getting murdered. Right. So they want a man allegedly who can physically protect them. For sure that would feel great because women still feel unsafe. However, that doesn't necessarily correlate with being unemotional.

[John]

I guess the contradiction goes both ways because men also want a woman that is, you know, compassionate and soft, but they also wanted to just be like, to not be emotional and not keep that. So it's like a contradiction both ways.

[Julie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We want everything right all at once.

[John]

And that's part of the problem. Just closing off on this point about sex. Cause I had one last question which is, does the research show that couples that have the best sex life talk about it the most?

[Emily]

Yes.

[John]

I had this debate with my friend and I was wondering.

[Julie]

Yes, no question.

[Emily]

Couples who talk about it have a better sex life.

[John]

And how should they be talking about it? Give me some advice on how to talk about sex with my partner.

[Emily]

You need to talk about it in a way that is accepting and loving, you know, so you talk about what's really great in the relationship, what you've enjoyed what you love about your partner, what you find sexy about your partner, what you wish for more of. You know, and right.

[Julie]

We have. We created what we call got sex. It's. Isn't that a. We didn't think of the title, I promise. So it's a kit that includes seven different structured conversations to have with your partner about sex that have to do with. What do you prefer specifically, how would you like sex to be initiated? When would you like it initiated? How can we refuse sex without massacring each other's egos? How should sex be completed? Et cetera. So the couples who talk much more openly and more comfortably about that do much better sexually.

[Emily]

And for love maps, we have a hundred questions you can ask a man about his erotic world, and 100 questions you can ask a woman about her erotic world. And they're not the same questions.

[John]

Men and women, well, just people generally, even in sort of homosexual relationships and heterosexual relationships, have very different fantasies, often linked to their trauma wherever they come from. Whatever. What happens in a relationship when one partner isn't willing to do the fantasy that the other partner is really craving? How does one navigate that?

[Julie]

Well, couple of ways. One is the person who's not willing to do it can maybe describe it verbally, because couples who talk more during sex actually have better sexual relationships, too. So if the partner who doesn't want to do what the other wants at least describes it verbally, whispering it in some kind of really cool tone, well, the guy can get off on that or the woman can get off on that. Right?

[Emily]

I'm imagining you're a cheerleader right now and I'm the football player.

[Julie]

And I'm 6 foot 4, not 5 foot 7.

[John]

Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening. And tuning into the show week after week means the world to all of us. And this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, Please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to, and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. It is a really interesting time to be running a business. Tariff and trade policies are in flux, the pace of innovation is relentless, and staying relevant means constantly reinventing how you operate. If your business can't adapt in real time, it risks falling behind, which means leaders need complete clarity across every part of their operation at all times. This is what our sponsor, NetSuite by Oracle, already delivers to 41,000 companies. NetSuite is an AI powered business management suite that brings accounting, financial management, HR and project planning into one platform. And because you've got this one source of truth, you can make fast decisions based on real time data. Or if you're looking ahead, NetSuite's forecasting tools give you a clear view of what's coming next and how to Prepare for it. NetSuite helps you spot bottlenecks, manage your margins and stay agile. So if your business is generating seven figures or more, download the free ebook which is called navigating global trade. Three insights for [e-mail] Bartlett that's netsuite.com Bartlett.