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The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Most Replayed Moment: The Hidden Organ That Controls Exactly How You Age!
00:35:18
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- [00:01]
Podcast Host
This episode is sponsored by Morgan Stanley's Thoughts on the Market. Today's financial markets move fast. Morgan Stanley moves faster with their daily podcast, Thoughts on the Market. Thoughts on the Market covers daily trends across the global investment landscape with actionable insights from Morgan Stanley's leading economists and strategists. And with most episodes under five minutes long, staying informed has never been easier. Listen and subscribe to thoughts on the Market wherever you get your podcasts.
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Steve Bartlett
Are there small parts of your protocol that people can implement? You talked there about not sitting. You know, you said weighted vest.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yeah.
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Steve Bartlett
Are there anything else that we can do that might help us build muscle mass without having to go to the gym?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yes.
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Steve Bartlett
What are the key things you think about there?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
If you can take a call walking or rucking, you can load up weight. It is extremely easy to do and you can do it slowly. Whether you start with you could start with seven pounds. I have a five pound weight vest. I have a seven pound weight vest. 20. And then from there you can load up weight so you can build up over time. People should be doing that. It is effective and easy. Everyone can do that. People are taking calls. You don't have to do a zoom call. Why not get on the phone, get moving. Human body will like to sit, right? As opposed to be forced to move. But you become. It's almost like a rote activity. If you are someone who is sedentary, it becomes easier to become sedentary and stay sedentary. It requires friction to change. You can mitigate some of that friction by incorporating movement into your life. For example, walking with a weighted vest. Easy training with your kids. People will say, I don't have time, I'm so busy. Pick up your kids after school. We instead of go and play video games, we do a push up challenge or a dance party in our. Have you ever heard of Texas hold'? Em?
- [02:13]
Steve Bartlett
The poker game?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
No, the dance. Have you ever seen this? Beyonce made an amazing song called Texas hold'. Em.
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Steve Bartlett
I thought she was talking about poker.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
She might be, but there is a line dance associated with that. There are a million fun ways to do something. We just have become accustomed to doing less. And we'll dance, we'll do whatever. Push ups, physical challenges, playing outside, get the Nerf guns, whatever. It is easy. I mean, it couldn't get easier than that.
- [02:44]
Steve Bartlett
What do you think a good goal is to have? What kind of goal? Because I said this before. But there's a time in my life where my goals were very like superficial and they were like anchored to A date. What are the best kind of goals that we should set ourselves as it relates to our health?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I don't think we should set goals.
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Steve Bartlett
No goals.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I think we should set standards.
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Steve Bartlett
Okay.
- [03:06]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
When you set a goal, you can either reach that goal or not. But if you set a standard, then you will always keep your standard. And that standard will allow you to reach a goal, but the standard won't change. For example, the standard is you wake up and you set whatever that is. You train every day? For me, I train three days a week, depending on how intense that training was. On Saturday, I might do a fourth day of training. And on Sunday, I forgot to tell you this, we do a group workout. My standard is physical activity has defined moments. And that is my standard. Even if I'm traveling, I know exactly what that's going to be before I get to the hotel. That is a standard of physical activity. I don't have to think about a goal. I don't have to have a goal of am I going to hit that or not? Because I know that those are things that I won't fall short of. My standard is my nutrition plan. I have between 110 to 120 grams of protein. I have between 110 to 120 grams of carbs. I know what that looks like. That is my standard. I don't deviate from that.
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Steve Bartlett
And what are you struggling with as it relates to your own advice?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Sleep.
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Steve Bartlett
You're struggling with sleep?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yeah.
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Steve Bartlett
Is that because of the two little kids or.
- [04:20]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
It is because I have to make a choice. Am I going to spend time uninterrupted and undivided with them or am I going to do work and my choice is I spend time with them and then when they go to sleep, I work another two to three hours and I should probably do a better job and know that eventually everything is going to get done. But I set standards.
- [04:51]
Steve Bartlett
Do you find it difficult? You know, because people always talk about not being able to have everything at once. This is what a lot of women have said to me. They said there was a time where we were sold this dream that you could have everything.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
You can.
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Steve Bartlett
You can.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I think so.
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Steve Bartlett
You must see a lot of excuses in people.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I do. I do. Because it's hard to face the truth.
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Steve Bartlett
And what's the truth?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
What is the truth? The truth is, are you doing this or are you not doing this because of some kind of internal choice? There has to be some truth telling, and sometimes that truth is uncomfortable. You can get the job done. There might Be things that you have to sacrifice. But the job, the thing that you want, the outcome that you want, the standard that you set, it can be done. It can be done. You tell yourself you can't do it. I mean, I have a 3 and a 5 year old. Do you know what kind of chaos ensues at my house? You should come over and I guarantee you you will hold off having any kind of children for at least five years. But nothing is perfect. It can't ever. Everything cannot be curated. Do I still get my training in? Do I still get my nutrition in? Am I anything special? I am not. But my discipline is. I am very disciplined.
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Steve Bartlett
Have you always been?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yes.
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Steve Bartlett
A lot of people aren't and they haven't ever been.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
It's much more difficult to not be disciplined. The reason I am disciplined is to be able to manage my life.
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Steve Bartlett
How do I get your discipline?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
You execute. You don't overthink it. There's nothing to think about. What do you want?
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Steve Bartlett
I want to be like you.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
No, what do you want? Where are you falling short?
- [06:38]
Steve Bartlett
I want to be like you.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
You would not be nearly as successful if you were undisciplined. You have to be disciplined.
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Steve Bartlett
I'm just trying to embody the audience. I'm trying to think through all the bullshit that people tell themselves and we all tell ourselves bullshit in various aspects of our life. If we're not telling ourselves bullshit as it relates to exercise, it's something else. It's our relationships.
- [06:57]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
It's people. Totally.
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Steve Bartlett
And so many people struggle with personal responsibility. Cause if I was to post. If you were to post or I was to post anything on my story that you just said in the last sort of five minutes, they would be very offended. Yeah. And there'd be. Well, not everybody. There's a small group of.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
So are they gonna edit this out? So they're gonna welcome. Oh, no, don't.
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Steve Bartlett
No, of course not.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Don't send crazy people after me.
- [07:18]
Steve Bartlett
It's like the whataboutery gang and the Whataboutery Gang. You could say anything and they say, yeah, but what about.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Totally.
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Steve Bartlett
Yeah, but what about. And I understand some people have. They have legitimate exceptions to this.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
The truth is it is very difficult to do what I do. I run three different businesses. I take care of some of the most incredible humans on the planet. I have my own podcast, I'm writing two more books and I don't have full time help. I'm a mom. The one thing I don't find is I don't find Excuses. I figure out ways to get it done. Because if it matters, you find ways to get it done. You know, if I were to say, and this is an extreme example, but let's say I said to someone who, I'll just make this up, loved cupcakes. I said, if you eat another cupcake, then something catastrophic is going to happen to your dog. Do you think that they would ever touch another cupcake? No, not in a second. Just like that. So the consequence is just not meaningful enough. When you find a meaningful consequence and you understand the consequence of your actions in that moment, it becomes easy.
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Steve Bartlett
And this goes to what we were saying about the discipline and the why part of that equation. You referred to it there as consequence. Like, why does this matter to you? Is the central part of the equation. And deep in your head somewhere, you're so clear on why this matters. Yeah, because you've seen the research. You've studied it. You've seen the consequence of things.
- [08:53]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I've seen the end result.
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Steve Bartlett
Yeah. You've seen people.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I've seen the end result. At the end of the day, we are all health and age and death. These things. Nobody's getting out of them. Like, nobody.
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Steve Bartlett
So if I follow your protocols for the next 30 years. Yeah. Then I'd be 60 years old. I'd be 61 years old. Can you describe to me what you think my life will look like as a 61 year old?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I can.
- [09:22]
Steve Bartlett
Versus if I just sit in this chair and eat processed foods and do zero resistance training for the next 30 years. Can you describe the two different. Stevens. We'll call it. We'll call one Sedentary Steve, and we'll call one Dr. Lyon. Steve.
- [09:37]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Okay, let's start with Sedentary Steve. I will say you are 30. So right now you're sedentary. Alzheimer's disease is likely beginning. Cardiovascular disease is likely beginning right now at 30. That's right. Remember, these diseases that we believe are diseases of aging are at their core and at their root in part due to the health of skeletal muscle, the only organ system that you have direct, voluntary control over. That's it. I cannot say. Steven, I want your heart to beat at 45 beats per minute. Go. I cannot control. You might be able to control your respiration, but you can't physically contract your diaphragm. Go ahead, contract. Okay, maybe it's a muscle. Skeletal muscle is the only organ system that you have voluntary control over. That's it. Now, if you decide to not hear what I am saying, than if you are Someone who has a genetic propensity. Maybe you have, I don't know. When you overeat, you get high triglycerides or you choose not to exercise, we will start to deteriorate your brain. Because contracting skeletal muscle is an endocrine organization. Not only does exercise increase blood flow to your brain. I just wrote a narrative review with a colleague of mine, Luisa Nicola. Amazing. We looked at the influence of resistance training and brain function. I cannot restore your brain, but I'd love to be able to prevent from the connections to become weaker and weaker and weaker. So you decide not to exercise. I can do nothing for your brain. Eventually you might forget, I don't know, your neighbor's name, your kid's name, your anything, what you did, any meaningful memory. If we don't address your brain now, then the potential outcome is clear, right? Two thirds of Alzheimer's. The majority of dementia is Alzheimer's dementia, which plays a role in metabolic regulation. Type 3 diabetes of the brain. If your skeletal muscle is unhealthy, you are likely having not only skeletal muscle insulin resistance, but brain insulin resistance. No such thing. You cannot be sedentary and be healthy. So that will begin now. The other thing is your cardiovascular activity can help, can help you there. Not getting increase in blood flow, you're not moving your cardiovascular health the way that it should. Your lung capacity, your cardiovascular capacity. You're probably going to be extremely winded walking upstairs. It might take so much effort for you to get up. You might not even be able to fully stand up and sit down from your chair multiple times. You might struggle with that. If I said, steven, I need you to go to grab something out of the car for me, you would probably say, oh man, hey doc, that's going to take a lot of effort. I'm not sure, I'm not sure I could even grab that, I don't know, 15 pound grocery bag. You likely have central obesity, probably have sleep apnea, which means you're further deteriorating both your brain and your metabolic health. I would just throw in there you haven't trained your entire life, your testosterone is probably low and maybe throughout your lifespan, who knows, maybe you have challenges with fertility because your sperm quality isn't as good as it could have been if you were training and eating well. Are you convinced yet?
- [13:55]
Steve Bartlett
So there's a link between my fertility for men and women and my muscle mass.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
There is a link between exercise, training, metabolic health and definitely fertility. I think we are going to see more and more literature come out on this muscle mass infertility. As by the time you're 60, we'll definitely have more.
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Steve Bartlett
Is there a link between polycystic ovary syndrome and muscle mass? You talk about that. I think in chapter two.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I do. There is insulin resistance. When you think about skeletal muscle and insulin resistance, skeletal muscle makes up 40% of your body weight or so. Depending for me, it might be less. For you, it might be more. When skeletal muscle becomes insulin resistant again, which means insulin is a peptide hormone that is released from the pancreas. You require insulin to move glucose out of the bloodstream into cells when you exercise. You do not require insulin to move blood glucose out of the bloodstream into skeletal muscle tissue. It can be insulin independent. Polycystic ovarian syndrome is multifactorial. There is a component of polycystic ovarian syndrome that is related to skeletal muscle insulin resistance. Once an individual manages their skeletal muscle mass. Again, there's a various number of reasons as to why someone would have it, but in part, addressing skeletal muscle mass and skeletal muscle insulin resistance can help resolve polycystic ovarian syndrome in certain cases.
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Steve Bartlett
I was reading on the subject of sort of PCOS and fertility, I was reading a study by Earth, which was done at Harvard, that found that men who reported to frequently lift heavy weights and objects at work had a 46% higher sperm concentration and a 44% higher total sperm count compared to those with less physical jobs. So you're telling me if I want to up my sperm count and have
- [16:03]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
a baby and Health and Health and
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Steve Bartlett
Storm Health, lifting some weights.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yes.
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Steve Bartlett
I was thinking about the 61 year old guy that listens to Dr. Lyon's protocols.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
But also, let's say we didn't talk about what would happen if you listened.
- [16:18]
Steve Bartlett
Yeah. Which is what I'm saying. So the guy that listened. So the 61 year old Steve Bartlett, that listens to your protocols.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Holy cow. The guy's a beast. He's now taking over the world because.
- [16:28]
Steve Bartlett
Does he have a six pack?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Of course he does.
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Steve Bartlett
Really? At 61?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yes.
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Steve Bartlett
Is it possible?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yes.
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Steve Bartlett
What's the healthiest, oldest person you've ever seen?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
My dad.
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Steve Bartlett
Really?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Oh, my gosh. He's 74. He could put on a little more muscle.
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Steve Bartlett
Okay.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
His Testosterone is like 800. He's not any hormone replacement. He has been following what I've been telling him. Unfortunately for him, because I'm his daughter, he's been listening to this message. I'm just sitting here with you, but we are Talking about over 10 years of talking about this, of seeing this with patients and people. He has amazing hemoglobin A1C fasting blood sugar, cholesterol is in check. I mean, he is strong. He is capable. He's 74.
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Steve Bartlett
What is the most important thing that we haven't talked about, Dr. Lyon?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I would say that nobody's getting out of this alive. And it's all going to come down to choices. Choices for how we execute our present choices will determine our outcomes. And it is not difficult, it's not complex. You have to prioritize skeletal muscle. This is the organ of longevity. With this physical framework comes mental strength. And what's most important about this isn't for us. Now, this is great. You can do it. But it provides hope and an example for our children that them, those people, the little ones. That is who I am truly worried about because we have normalized, supersizing everything, including ourselves. We have more electronics than ever before. We are more disconnected from people. People will say the Internet has done a great job at connecting face to face conversations. Connection is huge. The most important is our youth and how we raise them and the messages that we give them because they are our responsibility. And if we cannot advocate for our own health, whatever those limitations are, whether it's personal or worthy, it is our responsibility to do a much better job so that we not tell them, but we show them the way forward.
- [19:01]
Steve Bartlett
And what's the most important subject in your book that we haven't covered forever? Strong. A new science based strategy for aging. Well, how to reboot your body to burn fat, fight heart disease, reverse diabetes, stay sharp, build muscle and boost energy.
- [19:16]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I mean, we talked about dietary protein. We talked about how that potentially can be controversial for some people. We discussed carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are earned through activity. If someone is metabolically unhealthy, they have to understand that potentially starting with 100 grams and titrating up or down, depending on their activity level, is important.
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Steve Bartlett
How quickly do I lose muscle?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
If you were in the ICU, you could lose 2% of your muscle mass in a day.
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Steve Bartlett
Ugh. Got what?
- [19:49]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
If you are in a highly catabolic state on bed rest, you will lose muscle rapidly depending on your age, within seven days, you could lose, if you're young and healthy, two pounds of skeletal muscle mass.
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Steve Bartlett
Because I'm thinking if I go to the gym today and I did my biceps and I really smashed it, how long before those gains were lost?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I would give you. You'll lose strength and then mass, you will lose it rapidly. Seven days of Bedrest, you will lose it. But it will return if you've been well trained.
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Steve Bartlett
And it will return faster the second time than it did the first time. Right. People talk about muscle memory a lot.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
That is a interesting perspective. Yes. If you are well trained, will it return? Yes. It also depends on how long you have been untrained for. It also will depend on how highly catabolic you are. For example, if someone had cancer, they're in a highly catabolic state, their body is breaking down. Skeletal muscle mass will improve their survivability. If someone goes on bed rest, you will lose muscle mass and strength extremely rapidly. Now, will you able to re return insulin sensitivity? Yes. If you decided to just begin basic activities of living and not exercising, you will not be able to recover that muscle. Getting out of the hospital, just doing basic things will not be enough. And now, as you can imagine, that happens to people.
- [21:31]
Steve Bartlett
I can imagine, yeah. I go through periods in my life where for whatever reason, I have to be a bit more sedentary. Things like filming TV shows. I film this show called Dragon's Den where we basically sit in a room for 10 hours a day. It's like Shark Tank here. And whenever I go through that season of life, it's very difficult. I always see this correlation between how much activity I've been doing and how much motivation I have. So if I've been sat down and not been exercising for a while, I find it harder to find the motivation to go again. And it's this kind of vicious downward spiral.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
One thing that we didn't talk about is how skeletal muscle mass functions as an endocrine organ.
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Steve Bartlett
What's an endocrine organ?
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
An endocrine organ is something that produces hormones that act systemically, locally. And there's an inter organ connection. When you exercise based on intensity and duration, you release myokines. Myokines like interleukin 6 or interleukin 15. These are what people typically think as cytokines that are released from inflammatory cells or macrophages. But when you contract skeletal muscle in a meaningful way, based on the intensity and duration, you release myokines from skeletal muscle that interface with your brain. They affect mood, they affect neurogenesis. It also affects your liver and your kidney. There's this inter organ crosstalk. You know, we talked about skeletal muscle, about how important it is from a metabolic perspective, as a body armor perspective, but also as this endocrine organ that can affect mood because of the components that it's releasing. And that is fascinating. It can counterbalance inflammation based on the activity duration and intensity.
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Steve Bartlett
So that explains why if I've not been moving, I don't feel as good in terms of motivation. And I feel more fatigued when I've done less exercise over a long period of time.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I mean. Yes. And it doesn't take much to maintain what you have. For example, if you could during those days, do you have to be. So you're shooting for 10 hours. You don't have breaks.
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Steve Bartlett
We have lunch break.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
You should be training on that lunch break. I don't care how tired you are.
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Steve Bartlett
I'm hungry.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Then you should eat in 10 minutes and get to training.
- [23:44]
Steve Bartlett
That's a good point. And you're totally right.
- [23:46]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Push ups have a weighted vest. Do whatever you have to. You will feel exponentially better. And also this is predictable. So here is an example. You know it's coming, right? You know that you'll be filming this for 10 hours a day.
- [24:00]
Steve Bartlett
Yeah.
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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
What is your strategy to execute in a way that is effective and meaningful?
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Steve Bartlett
And that's really it, isn't it? It's about forward planning.
- [24:08]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yeah. You know it's coming. It's predictable. It's also predictable how you're gonna feel afterwards. And then you are going to have to count for how you feel. And then you are going to have to deal with the repercussions of now not being motivated, now having to address your diet and now probably feeling a little bit more down than you would have. We totally know it's coming.
- [24:27]
Steve Bartlett
It's one of the big things I've just realized as you're talking is I don't schedule my workouts. So my workouts are kind of this residual beneficiary, I. E. They get whatever time's left over in the day. Which might mean last night it was super late, it was almost at midnight. And then today I've got a flight after this. So it's a 10 hour flight. So it's like. But I could quite easily. I have the fortune and privilege of being able to ask my assistant to change something. So I can say, while you schedule everything else, also schedule an hour for me to train. But I think everyone could probably do that. I wonder how many people schedule their workouts.
- [25:02]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Everybody who is you. Show me your habits and I will tell you how successful you will be able to continue to be in the long run.
- [25:10]
Steve Bartlett
You could probably look at someone's calendar and figure out what they're going to look like in 10 years time.
- [25:14]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I definitely can. But I will say that there's this privilege of youth. And then there becomes a tipping point. Yes, you should be scheduling those things. You can and let's say you say to me, gabrielle, I don't have time to do it. You are not. You could schedule three days a week. You know that we're filming all day. You know that you're doing these things. That is a non negotiable because you're setting a standard. You set a standard for everything in here and everything else you do. Nothing is going to be more critical for your impact than being able to manage your health. Because again, there comes a point in time where it's a very predictable turning point, inflection point.
- [25:56]
Steve Bartlett
If we get together again in, I don't know, say it was 30 years from now and I say to you, and you've been successful over the next 30 years, however you define that. What happened?
- [26:09]
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
We've completely changed the conversation. We are no longer ad nauseam talking about obesity. That is a side component. We are focused on physical and mental strength. We are focused on understanding that it is a muscle problem and a problem and a solution that we can do something about. Obesity is an afterthought. And personally, my kids have done amazing and they're happy and adjusted and can withstand whatever comes their way. And my husband will be picking up his socks.
- [26:45]
Steve Bartlett
What you just listened to was a most replayed moment from a previous episode. If you want to listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below. Check the description. Thank you.
- [26:59]
Podcast Host
This episode is sponsored by Morgan Stanley's Thoughts on the Market. Today's financial markets move fast. Morgan Stanley moves faster with their daily podcast, Thoughts on the Market. Thoughts on the Market covers daily trends across the global investment landscape with actionable insights from Morgan Stanley's leading economists and strategists. And with most of the episodes under five minutes long, staying informed has never been easier. Listen and subscribe to Thoughts on the Market wherever you get your podcasts.