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The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Pregnancy Diet Expert: The Pregnancy Diet That Rewrites DNA! Why Pregnant Moms Are Being Lied To!
01:36:17
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- [00:00]
Stephen
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- [01:01]
Jesse Inshospay
with your diet during pregnancy, you're programming your baby's DNA and this is going to have an impact on your baby's development and on their future risk of disease. And there's a lot of pregnant moms who are eating a diet that's not giving them the nutrients their baby needs. This is not the mom's fault. This is the fault of our food system. This is the fault of society. And nobody's telling moms about this. And I wanted to create this guide to help parents navigate that food system and see easy things they can do to help their baby's development. This because as a biochemist, when I became pregnant, I just went deep, deep, deep into the research and there are some main things that I learned. For example, 90% of moms are not getting enough choline during pregnancy. And choline is super important. It forms your baby's brain in the womb. So this is the amount of eggs that I ate per week during the nine months of pregnancy, because this is the simplest way to give enough choline to our baby. And then your baby needs no fructose during pregnancy. So sugar from dessert, from chocolate, from muffins, from cupcakes. Your baby needs none of this because if you have high glucose levels during pregnancy, scientists have found that your baby's DNA will have epigenetic switches that are programming them towards having a higher vulnerability to develop diabetes, obesity and psychiatric disorders. Next. This is basically the amount of protein that I needed to eat every single day in the third trimester of pregnancy day. Yeah, because the studies show low protein diets lead to smaller babies and potentially this epigenetic programming of staying smaller throughout life and it's findings like that that led me to create a plan and simple hacks for pregnant moms and we can talk about them.
- [02:33]
Stephen
And then what does the research say about breastfeeding, exercise, caffeine, and also, do you recommend that mothers take certain supplements?
- [02:40]
Jesse Inshospay
So this is what people need to know.
- [02:43]
Stephen
Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show. Week after week means the world to all of us. And this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, Please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to, and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Jessie Inshospay, the Glucose Goddess for people that don't know who you are, what have you spent the best part of the last decade committing your life to and why?
- [03:39]
Jesse Inshospay
My work started in the glucose space, meaning the blood sugar space. I was showing people how blood sugar impacts all of us on a daily basis. The spikes and dips after we eat, they lead to inflammation, faster aging, cravings, fatigue, and it's been the basis of my work because glucose matters for everybody and it is the core of a healthy body and mind. And so that's where I started because it's so important.
- [04:04]
Stephen
We last spoke almost two years ago now. What have you learned in those last two years that has evolved your own thinking or has developed your own thinking in any way? If we reflect on the last conversations we had around glucose spikes and sugar and the health consequences and diets, is there anything you've learned in those two years that is interesting and new?
- [04:23]
Jesse Inshospay
Oh, absolutely. I think mostly the impact of glucose on mood and on relationships. For example, there's this fascinating study that took married couples and they gave the husband and the wives a little voodoo doll representing their spouse. And the researchers told the participants to put a little pin in the voodoo doll every time their spouse annoyed them. At the end of the two weeks, the researchers counted the number of pins in the voodoo dolls and they Also measured the participants glucose levels. They found that the people who had the most glucose lows had put the most pins in the voodoo doll representing their spouse.
- [05:02]
Stephen
Wow.
- [05:03]
Jesse Inshospay
So it's just an association, but it's interesting. And scientists then found that when you have very unsteady glucose levels, it impacts this neurotransmitter in your brain called tyrosine, that manages your mood. So it seems that with unsteady glucose levels, your mood is less stable, which correlate to you being more annoyed at your spouse. So I think studies like this have really blown my mind.
- [05:25]
Stephen
What's going on when we go through a glucose crash, per se.
- [05:30]
Jesse Inshospay
So glucose is your body's energy, so your brain is constantly monitoring how much glucose do we have in our bloodstream. And steady glucose is great. When your glucose levels crash, this indicates biologically that you're out of fuel. And this is a powerful signal to your body and your brain to say, alert, alert. We need food, we need more glucose. And so it creates all these downstream consequences on your mood. You become hangry. All you think about is food. You're in a bad mood. You're like, I need to eat something. You look for a banana, you look for a cookie. It can also activate the craving center in your brain that says, steven, go find some chocolate. And science has shown this low glucose levels creates a cascade of consequences on how we feel and what we seek. Now, what's interesting is that back in the day when we had low glucose levels, I'm talking like hunter gatherer times, they wouldn't arrive so quickly because we didn't have these big spikes that then led to these big drastic drops. It was more. We ate in a more balanced way with less sugar, obviously. So when our glucose became low, it was a bit more gradual. Today, because we have access to all this sugar, we can spike our glucose very quickly. And as a result, it then crashes very quickly. So the effects are pretty much immediate and they're very intense. All of a sudden, you go from feeling okay to your brain being in alert mode. We need to find more fuel. So we've dysregulated our glucose levels to the point where it's impacting us in a very unnatural way.
- [06:50]
Stephen
Is that in part because we modify our food, Even fruit? When I looked back through the history of fruit, apples, bananas, et cetera, looked extremely different before they were modified to be juicier and sweeter, et cetera, completely.
- [07:02]
Jesse Inshospay
It's like dogs. So all the dog breeds today, from Chihuahuas to golden retrievers, they all come from wolves. Humans have been breeding wolves together to create these different species of dogs. They all have that ancestor of the gray wolf. So humans are very good at breeding natural things to serve their purposes. And when it comes to fruit, the same thing. So as you say, if you compare like an ancestral banana or an ancestral apple to a modern one, they look completely different. And you should pull up these photos, they're fascinating. Ancestral banana, tiny, full of fiber, full of seeds, not very sweet. And then modern banana, full of sugar, low in fiber, really easy to eat. So that's the first thing people need to know about fruit. Fruit is not natural. Fruit is the product of human engineering. However, a piece of whole fruit also contains fiber and water. So even though it's been bred to have a lot of sugar, the fiber in the water reduce how quickly the sugar arrives in our bloodstream, making it more or less okay for us. But the problem comes when we denature that piece of fruit, meaning if we remove the fiber. For example, if we take an orange and make an orange juice, what are we actually talking about here? Actually, oranges are not even a natural fruit. They were invented thousands of years ago by crossing other species of fruit. To make an orange juice, you throw away part of the orange, you throw away the solid part, which is the fiber. So you're left with the sugar of a very sugary fruit, water, and no fiber. As a result, you're getting a very unnatural amount of sugar in your bloodstream with no fiber to protect the spike. So a big, big glucose spike. And people often say, oh, well, you know, fruit has vitamins in it. So therefore orange juice must be better for you than Coca Cola. That's actually a total myth. If you compare a glass of orange juice to a glass of Coca Cola, it's the same amount of sugar, about 25 grams. And the sugar in the can of coke and the sugar in glass of orange juice, they're exactly the same. They're glucose and fructose molecules. And your body absorbs them in the exact same way. Your body does not make a difference between sugar from an orange and sugar from a sugar beet that's now in a can of Coca Cola. I hope that orange juice disappears from school lunches, from hospital meals. The World health organization recommends 25 grams of sugar per day or less. So with just one glass of orange juice in the morning that you squeeze at home that you think is good for you, you're already at the maximum limit of sugar recomm recommendation. And most people drink this glass of orange Juice, thinking it's good for them. Most people with diabetes drink this glass of orange juice thinking it's helping them with their condition. And that's really where I want to act. I want to help people understand what they actually need to do to feel better so they don't fall victim to marketing.
- [09:39]
Stephen
We talked there about glucose crashes and what that causes in terms of behavior. I was wondering, if also causes other compulsive behaviors. Does it make me more likely to want to doom scroll on the Internet if I have been eating lots of sugar?
- [09:55]
Jesse Inshospay
Well, that's a great question. Why does sugar feel good? Because it releases dopamine in our brain. Dopamine is the pleasure molecule. It makes us feel good. So if I were to drink this glass of orange juice, which would have to pay me a lot of money for me to drink this, but my brain would let out so many dopamine molecules and I would feel this wave of pleasure. Now, the problem is people confuse that with energy. It's not energy, it's dopamine. And dopamine is the same exact molecule that gets released when you're scrolling on Instagram, you look for the next post, you look for the next video. Every time you get something new and interesting, Bam. A dopamine signal as well in your brain. So if you're constantly triggering dopamine in your brain, you're going to constantly crash, you're going to have dopamine spikes, dopamine crashes, and become more and more addicted to it. So I don't know about studies showing glucose spikes and for example, doom scrolling, but if you look at just the biology of it, they're triggering the same center in your brain. So for sure I can imagine that if you are on a dopamine binging dopamine addiction cycle, both an orange juice and a glucose spike and doom scrolling can go hand in hand.
- [11:01]
Stephen
I was just looking at some research here and it says yes, you're significantly more likely to doom scroll during a glucose crash. And it explains that that's because of something called the energy crisis in the prefrontal cortex, where your prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain responsible for willpower and decision making and saying no to things like doom scrolling. In the case where glucose drops, this area is first to dim the lights to save energy for vital fun. The result is you lose your executive function, making it nearly impossible to resist the hit of dopamine that social media provides. But it also says the second reason is this dopamine trap. And the third is generally your emotional Regulation goes out the window. I think this in part because I notice in myself that when I am on a higher glucose diet, I'm more likely to get involved in compulsive behaviors that I otherwise don't like, like doom scrolling on the Internet.
- [11:46]
Jesse Inshospay
You have less willpower, less control.
- [11:48]
Stephen
Yeah, I have less willpower.
- [11:48]
Jesse Inshospay
You feel more addicted.
- [11:49]
Stephen
Yeah, like I have less control over my life.
- [11:51]
Jesse Inshospay
And the first thing that people notice is that when they are on a glucose roller coaster, they feel addicted to sugar. Like it's no longer a choice to go after that cookie. It feels like a compulsive behavior, like, I need sugar right now. Because that glucose crash is triggering a biological mechanism that is nearly impossible to override. So when you tell somebody, just eat less sugar, that's bs. You can't just eat less sugar. You have to go fix the underlying cause, which usually leads to glucose crash. You can't override that feeling of craving that comes from deep inside your brain. When you have a glucose crash. You need to fix the spike, reduce the spike, and then naturally the spike also reduces and you feel fewer cravings. There's this theory called the protein leverage hypothesis. And this theory says that your body will keep you hungry and keep you seeking food until you've given it enough protein. So if in the morning you have, I don't know, some oats and toast and jam, very little protein, your body's going to be like, okay, we didn't get any protein, we need to get more protein. So you stay more and more hungry. At 10am you're hungry again. If you have a cookie, again, no protein, your body will keep you hungry. If all of a sudden you have 40 grams of protein, then that craving dissipates and that feeling of seeking out food sort of calms down. Because your body got what he actually needed, which was protein.
- [13:05]
Stephen
People send you lots of messages. You have a enormous online following. If I was to peer into those DMs, you get, what would be the essence of what people are saying to you?
- [13:14]
Jesse Inshospay
They're asking me about specific foods. They're saying, are lentils, okay, can I eat three eggs a day? What kind of vinegar should I use? And often it's people trying to navigate the marketing messages they're seeing on the packaging of things. They'll be like this can of tea that says zero grams of sugar isn't good for me. They're trying to decode what these food products actually contain and whether they're actually good for them.
- [13:39]
Stephen
And is there any real standout marketing Messages that are deceptive.
- [13:43]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah. No added sugars. That is so deceptive, because this glass of orange juice has no added sugars in it because the sugar was there at the beginning. It came from the orange, from the original ingredient. So on account of orange juice, you can say no added sugar, even though it contains 25 grams of sugar, which is the maximum limit the WHO recommends for your daily sugar intake. So that's a really, really bad one. Another one would be something that says gluten free or vegan. It's not because it's gluten free or vegan that it's good for you. But we're being tricked. You know, food manufacturers do everything they can to make you buy their products.
- [14:21]
Stephen
I think I'm in the season of life where I'm thinking a lot about fertility. Both my fertility, my fiance's fertility, and how my diet, the things I eat, has an impact on that. What is it we need to know about? You know, if we're trying to conceive, if we want to have. We want to have a family. Is it really the case that I need to start thinking about my own fertility in the lead up to putting that sperm into that egg?
- [14:44]
Jesse Inshospay
Yes. Both the males and the females need to be thinking about fertility. And nutrition plays a big role and health plays a big role in the quality of your sperm, for example. So a good idea would be to reduce before you want to have a kid, if you're the man, you know, reduce alcohol, exercise more, eat better so that your sperm are high quality. So the sperm turnover is about three months. So if, if you do like a three month, sort of intense, my sperm are getting in shape kind of situation. It's a good idea for women. It's different. So our eggs are present from before we're born, but the quality of our diet, of our nutrient reserves is going to impact our ability to have kids also and is going to impact what our baby gets in the first trimester of pregnancy.
- [15:25]
Stephen
You've just given birth eight months ago.
- [15:27]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah. Feels like just last week, but yeah, eight months ago.
- [15:30]
Stephen
And I guess that's somewhat linked to why you've written this new book, which is titled nine months that count forever how your pregnancy diet shapes your baby's future. You could have written about anything, Jesse, and people would have bought the book because people are so fascinated by you and the work that you do. Why, of all the subjects you could have written about, was this the subject that meant the most to you to commit a long period of your life too?
- [15:54]
Jesse Inshospay
Because it is a subject where there's such a big gap, Stephen, between what science knows and what parents are told. It felt like there was a just canyon between information in the studies that's been there for decades and what I as a pregnant woman went through and what advice I was given. What's available out there to pregnant moms. So even though I was pregnant and I was tired, I felt I need to write this book because people need to know the power that they have. So today science knows that you're not just an oven when you're pregnant. Have you heard this thing being a bun in the oven? It's an American expression.
- [16:32]
Stephen
I think I've heard it once or twice, yeah.
- [16:34]
Jesse Inshospay
Okay. So often if you're pregnant, people will say, oh, you have a bun in the oven. That's so cute. It's like an expression. And I feel like this is where all of our problems started because it implies so many misleading things. It implies that when you're pregnant, you are an oven, meaning you're just there to provide heat and time. And people often say, just relax, you know, let nature do its thing. So it implies that you're passive, that you have no agency, no power. You're just a vessel of heat and time. That's the first problem. The second problem is that it implies that just like a chocolate cake that you put in the oven, it implies that your baby, the moment the sperm meets the egg, your baby is set in stone. Like if you're making a cake, when you make the brownie and you put it in the oven, the oven is not going to change the brownie into banana bread. The oven is just cooking the brownie. Well, actually, it's very different with pregnancy. Your baby is not set in stone at conception. What happens during the nine months of pregnancy is co creating your baby's plan. And depending on what you eat, a different baby will come out. So we've been lying to pregnant moms, telling them they have no agency, they have no power, they should just relax and let nature do its thing. So that's why I wrote this book, because the science is fascinating.
- [17:52]
Stephen
So where are pregnant women being let down in this regard? Is it that there's just not enough information out there? There's not been enough research out there? Is it bad advice currently on the Internet?
- [18:01]
Jesse Inshospay
This is the fault of our food system, this is the fault of society, this is the fault of the food industry that we were just talking about the marketing messages for everybody. Today in developed countries, we are being fed, processed, unhealthy Foods that are hurting us. Whether we get diabetes or heart disease, there's a link to food. And today, even pregnant moms are being let down by the food system and are eating a diet without knowing it. That's not giving them the nutrients their baby needs. So the moment I became pregnant, the first time I started researching, I went to Google Scholar and I just opened about a thousand tabs on my computer, which is usually what I do when I'm researching a new topic. And I looked at the big review studies, the meta analyses of how nutrition during pregnancy impacts our baby's development. I read probably 2,000 scientific papers, and I just went deep, deep, deep into the research. And out of it. I saw these four big themes coming out of these four nutrients that most moms are not getting enough of in their diet or too much of in their diet. And I wanted to create this guide to help parents navigate that food system and see easy things they can do in the mom's diet to help their baby's development. So while your baby's DNA is set, the moment the sperm meets the egg with your diet during pregnancy, you're programming that DNA. Have you heard of epigenetics?
- [19:20]
Stephen
Yes.
- [19:20]
Jesse Inshospay
Okay, so epigenetics are like these little dimmer switches that sit on your DNA and that say, activate this gene or silence this gene. And so during pregnancy, you're putting these little switches on your baby's DNA. And this is going to have an impact on your baby's development and on his future risk of disease. I'll give you a very simple example. If you have very high glucose levels during pregnancy, scientists have found that your baby's DNA will have epigenetic switches that are programming him towards having a higher vulnerability to develop diabetes himself in his lifetime. So if you have high glucose levels, your baby will be programmed to be more likely to then have high glucose levels himself throughout his life. As a kid, a teenager and an adult, that's epigenetic programming. And depending on your diet as the mom, you can program your kids differently. But nobody tells moms about this. And that's what I'm trying to change.
- [20:17]
Stephen
What do I need to know, as someone that knows very little about pregnancy, to really understand the, like, basics of what's going on, what time frame matters, what happens when?
- [20:26]
Jesse Inshospay
So females have a uterus, which is an organ, and the uterus is where the baby develops and the uterus grows as pregnancy progresses. And then when you give birth, the baby comes out of the uterus, and the uterus stays in the mom. So that's important when conception happens. So you have the sperm meets the egg, that little packet of cells will implant in one of the walls of the uterus and start growing. And pregnancy is divided into three trimesters. It's about nine months. So months one to three is the first trimester. Four, five, six is the second trimester. Seven, eight, nine is the third trimester. And what we're going to talk about today is about nutrition and how your baby's getting the building blocks that he needs to develop in your womb as the female. Because your baby needs to grow from a single cell to 40 trillion cells by the time he's born, right? He grows from, like, nothing to three or four kilos. And that has to come from somewhere. It doesn't just come out of thin air. All those building blocks, all that matter is coming from you, from what you're eating. What you eat becomes your baby. So your baby is what you eat. In the first trimester, your baby's getting food from this sort of milk that your uterus creates, so it's uterine secretions. And then from the second trimester onwards, something incredible happens.
- [21:43]
Stephen
When's the second trimester?
- [21:44]
Jesse Inshospay
It starts at four months.
- [21:45]
Stephen
Okay.
- [21:46]
Jesse Inshospay
And so for the second and third trimesters, there's another organ that you create inside your uterus. It's called the placenta. And the placenta's job is to bring your baby's bloodstream and your bloodstream as the mom in really close contact. And all of a sudden, symbiosis is established. And your bloodstream and your baby's bloodstream are then going to exchange nutrients and waste. So your baby is going to get all his nutrition directly from your bloodstream. And, Steven, here's a main myth that people believe. They believe that your baby will just get what he needs from you during pregnancy. That's something moms are told. Don't worry, your baby will get what he needs from you. This is a lie. Depending on what you eat, your baby will have different access to important nutrients. So your baby doesn't get what he needs. He gets what's there and what you give him. So let's take a simple example. One of the nutrients that is really important is called choline. Have you heard about choline before?
- [22:42]
Stephen
Is that in eggs?
- [22:43]
Jesse Inshospay
Yes, exactly. It's in the egg yolk. So choline is super important. It forms your baby's brain in the womb. So your baby's brain has these cells that are forming called neurons, which are the ones that process information. And choline is important to creating those neurons. And choline creates the parts of your baby's brain that have to do with memory, learning, and attention. So that egg that you're holding contains about 125 milligrams of choline, and it's an incredible, incredible substance. The thing is, if you don't eat enough choline, your baby's brain is not going to get enough choline. And this can have an impact on the development of your child. So much so that the American association of pediatrics says failure to provide choline during this time can result in lifelong brain deficits in the baby. Today, 90% of moms are not getting enough choline during pregnancy. 90% of moms are not getting enough choline during pregnancy.
- [23:41]
Stephen
Why?
- [23:42]
Jesse Inshospay
Because nobody is telling them about it. And because today we don't eat very nutritious foods anymore that contain a lot of choline. They're present in eggs. So four eggs a day gives you all the choline that you need. But choline is also present in organ meats like liver. Nobody eats liver anymore. Most of the foods that we eat today, cupcakes, dried fruits, bur chips, they don't contain a lot of choline. We need to be eating eggs. This is the simplest way to give enough choline to our baby. And scientists do these animal studies where they deprive moms from choline, and they look at the impact on the brain, and they see that brain development in the baby stops earlier than it should, and those babies are born with fewer neurons. The amount of choline in your diet during pregnancy is going to be impacting your child's brain development. And nobody's telling moms about this. It's really messed up.
- [24:34]
Stephen
So how many eggs a day do I need to eat while I'm pregnant to get enough choline?
- [24:38]
Jesse Inshospay
4 is the golden number. So here I think we have 28 eggs. So every day during pregnancy, I ate four eggs. So this is the amount of eggs that I ate per week during the nine months of pregnancy. That's a lot of eggs. But as I was doing this, I knew I was giving my baby all the choline that he needed, which is about 450 milligrams per day. And this is not very expensive. 28, eg. So for $1 a day, you're getting all the choline that your baby needs to form his brain.
- [25:09]
Stephen
Mothers are often told to avoid liver while they're pregnant. Why is that? And you're saying that that's not the correct advice?
- [25:17]
Jesse Inshospay
So liver contains a lot of vitamin A, quite high levels of vitamin A. And there's some older studies that show that liver and high vitamin A can cause issues to the baby. That's why liver is not usually recommended during pregnancy. I would say check with your doctor. Different countries have different thresholds of how much liver is allowed. And honestly, I don't like liver, so I, I prefer to have eggs. But liver is super, super high in choline. It's quite impressive. You can also take choline supplements, but eggs are the cheapest, easiest source and, for example, in the supplement world. So scientists have done this study at Cornell. They gave one group of moms the bare minimum amount of choline that is recommended, so 450 milligrams in supplements. And then they wondered, well, if a baby's brain needs choline, what happens if he has a lot of choline available? Does his brain form even better? So they gave the other group of mom double the bare minimum recommended amount. And then they brought the kids in during their first year of age for some tests. And the main test that was used is you basically plop the baby on his mom's lap in front of a computer screen and you flash images on that screen and you measure how quickly the baby reacts to the new images, so how quickly he moves his eyes. The reason they do this is because this test is correlated to adult iq, meaning the faster a baby reacts to images in the first year of age, the higher his adult iq. That's the association. And so they were wondering, could we see a difference in the baby's reaction time depending on the mom's choline level in the womb? And they found that the babies who were born to the high choline moms had 10% faster reaction time to this test.
- [26:58]
Stephen
People talk a lot about breastfeeding as well, whether it's good, bad, indifferent, whether you can breastfeed too much, etc. And obviously, there's lots of practicalities that make breastfeeding quite difficult for a lot of mothers, which we probably should acknowledge. But otherwise, what does the research say about breastfeeding?
- [27:15]
Jesse Inshospay
So the main difference between breast milk and formula is that breast milk is alive. It's alive with information. It's alive with little molecules that are going to continue. That DNA programming formula is inertia. It's not alive, it's not doing that programming. So, yes, breastfeeding has advantages for the mom and for the baby, but formula is nutritionally complete and it's very useful for many moms who are not able or don't want to breastfeed and if you're using formula, you actually have to check, because today not all formulas have Choline in them. So checking the ingredients for choline, also checking the ingredients for omega 3s, which is something that we'll cover in a bit. Look for that Choline Omega 3s in your formula to make sure that your baby is getting what he needs in those respects.
- [28:01]
Stephen
I was reading about a study in the Pediatric Research Journal that says a 2013 Dutch study of 120 children found that less breastfeeding was linked to a silencing of the gene for leptin, the hormone that signals fullness.
- [28:16]
Jesse Inshospay
So that's a good example of epigenetic programming. So we have this gene that codes for leptin, which is a protein, and leptin is one of the molecules that makes you feel full. So you and I both have this leptin gene, but depending on our epigenetic programming on that gene, you might be producing more of it and I might be producing less of it. So for the same meal, you might feel more full and I might feel less full after that same exact meal. And so in the study, they saw that if you're not breastfed very long, your leptin gene is deactivated, so you feel less full after eating. Now, these are small associations, but they show you that there's a difference here and that potentially breastfeeding could help your baby be more satiated after eating.
- [28:57]
Stephen
What about sugar during pregnancy?
- [28:59]
Jesse Inshospay
So sugar is fascinating. When you eat sugar, your baby is also receiving that sugar because that placenta lets the sugar through. Your baby doesn't need any sugar during pregnancy. He needs a little bit of glucose, which is different. But sugar, as in the very sweet molecule of fructose that is in chocolate, that is in these cupcakes, that is in dried fruit. Your baby needs none of it. And the most interesting study on sugar in pregnancy actually came from the UK. So from 1940 to 1953, I don't know if you know this, but in the UK there was a government mandated sugar ration, meaning for 13 years, the government controlled how much sugar people had access to. It was during the war and they were trying to manage resources. So Everybody in the UK got 10 sugar cubes per day. That's it. And this is down from what people usually ate before the sugar ration, which was about 20 sugar cubes per day. So everybody, including pregnant moms for 13 years, had a capped amount of sugar at the end of the sugar ration. After 13 years, bam, everybody went back up to Eating more sugar. And so scientists in the early 2000s thought, well, that's really interesting. This means we have two groups of pregnant moms during the sugar ration and right after the sugar ration, who had babies develop in their womb, either with 40 grams of sugar per day or around 80 grams of sugar per day. And the scientists wondered, can this small difference be making an impact on the baby's long term health? So they called up 60,000 people who were born either just before the ration ended or just after. And they asked him about their health. They were like, do you have diabetes? Do you have heart disease? How are you feeling? What's your weight? And they saw that the babies who were born and who were in the mother's womb during the sugar ration had 15% lower likelihood of having developed type 2 diabetes in their lifetime. So what does this mean? It means that the amount of sugar during pregnancy can be slightly increasing or decreasing your baby's vulnerability to getting type 2 diabetes later in life. And today, scientists look at the epigenetics of babies who are born to moms with very high glucose levels, and they see that the genes that are related to diabetes are activated. So we have a full picture now of data. We have epigenetics, we have this long term interesting study, and we now see that the amount of sugar that we eat during pregnancy is subtly programming our baby. So, Stephen, I don't know if you know this, but When I was 25, I was on the cusp of pre diabetes. I almost had pre diabetes. When I was 25, I had very high glucose levels, so I had a vulnerability to diabetes. And as I was reading the studies, I was like, oh, my God, maybe this has something to do with what my mother was eating when she was pregnant with me, because pregnancy is this window of outsized influence in somebody's health. So I called up my mom. I was like, mom, what do you eat when you were pregnant? She was like, oh, it was the 90s, you know, I ate very little protein, very low fat. And in the morning, every morning, I had a big glass of orange juice and I had Special Case cereal with about a half a cup of table sugar on top. I was like, huh, that's pretty interesting. So I wonder, I will never know, I wonder if maybe my vulnerability to diabetes had some roots in the womb.
- [32:18]
Stephen
And the science suggests that it does have a correlation.
- [32:23]
Jesse Inshospay
Absolutely. So the science suggests that the amount of sugar that you're eating during pregnancy is having an impact on your baby's epigenetics. And today. So, as I was mentioning, the WHO recommends 25 grams of sugar per day, but most moms are eating 80 grams of sugar per day. Eighty grams, which is usually more than what they eat when they're not pregnant because of this collective myth that you should eat for two that pregnancy. You're gonna gain weight anyway, so eat as much sugar as you want. Really, we're failing moms cause we're not telling them about the incredible opportunity they have by just being a bit mindful of how much sugar they eat, of being able to help their baby be less vulnerable to diabetes.
- [33:04]
Stephen
It's not just diabetes, though, is it? No. I was just looking at some of the studies. There's a study here in the JAMA Network. It says a Danish study found that children born to mothers with diabetes had a 15% high risk of psychiatric disorders, with schizophrenia risk being 55% higher, intellectual disability 29% higher, and a connection to autism and ADHD. A 2025 review of 200 studies, which is 56 million mother bab baby pairs, found a 25% higher risk of autism when mothers had diabetes during pregnancy. From the Lancet Diabetes and Endocrinology Report. And it's important to note that these studies show correlation, not causation. And a 25% increase in absolute terms only raises the prevalence from 1 in 100 to around 1.25 in 100 children. So there's some nuance to be had on that.
- [33:59]
Jesse Inshospay
There are some nuance, but that association holds very strong. And as you said, 56 million mom baby pairs. So across the world, we see that when a mom has diabetes during pregnancy, her baby has a higher risk of psychiatric disorders. And the main theory that could explain this association has to do with the baby's brain. So your baby is forming his brain in the womb. And today, Stephen, you have about 100 billion neurons in your brain, and they are the exact same neurons that you had the day you were born. Neurons never get replaced. So what does this mean? It means that your neurons that you have for life are formed during pregnancy in your mother's uterus. Now you have these neurons in the baby's brain being formed 250,000 per minute. Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. Neurons everywhere. And next to the neurons, you have another type of cell. This cell is called the microglia, and it kind of looks like a starfish, and it's patrolling the baby's brain. And its job is to make sure that the neurons are forming properly. So what microglia do? They're a cel Immune system is they are on the lookout for any neurons that are being damaged or not formed properly. And as soon as they find a neuron that is not ideal, they go over to it and they eat it and they destroy it. So they're pruning the brain and they're looking out for damage and making sure everything develops normally. Now, if the mother has high inflammation levels during pregnancy, and this can be caused by a number of things. It can be caused by high glucose levels, it can be caused by infection, it can be caused by chemicals. High inflammation seems to to be making these microglia overactive. Now, all of a sudden, they become a bit deregulated and they start eating and destroying neurons that don't need to be destroyed. They start destroying healthy neurons, and as a result, the brain is forming in a slightly suboptimal fashion. And scientists believe this to be the leading theory behind why we see the association between gestational diabetes, so diabetes of pregnancy, and a higher risk of psychiatric disorders. They believe it has to do with the inflammation levels going in the baby's brain during pregnancy. And so what does this tell us? This tells us that when we're pregnant, we're influencing the amount of inflammation in our baby's body. And this should be something that we tell women about, because if they can have power over their inflammation levels, for example, by reducing their glucose spikes, they could also give their baby a benefit to its brain formation.
- [36:29]
Stephen
Do you think it's useful for women during pregnancy to wear those continuous glucose monitors?
- [36:34]
Jesse Inshospay
I did. I did the whole time. Is it useful? Depends on what you want to do. I think it's really interesting. It helped me a lot. Maybe just for two weeks could be cool. So you can kind of see what's going on and learn about your glucose spikes. And I think one of the issues we see during pregnancy is that your glucose levels are usually tested in the third trimester with the diabetes test. But by that time, like, you've already been going, going on for six months with your glucose levels. I think we should be testing glucose levels much, much earlier, like in the first trime, because your glucose levels in the first trimester actually can predict very well whether you're going to get gestational diabetes or not. So I think we should maybe put a glucose monitor on all pregnant moms in the first trimester or even pre pregnancy to help them understand their glucose spikes and show them about these easy tools and habits and hacks that you can put in place to reduce your glucose spikes.
- [37:26]
Stephen
I was reading about a study from Diabetes Care that said, they put these continuous glucose monitors on 700 women and found that if they did it in the first trimester, they could accurately predict who would gestational diabetes at 24 to 28 weeks.
- [37:41]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, and so that's really interesting because a lot of people used to think that gestational diabetes, meaning diabetes during pregnancy, is kind of random. It was like, oh, you get it. But we don't know why it's random. Your body's just doing this. And now we have evidence that suggests that actually it's correlated to your glucose levels in the first trimester. Now, in the first trimester, your glucose levels are pretty much the same as when you're not pregnant. As pregnancy progresses, hormones come into play and things start shifting. Glucose spikes get bigger and longer. Fasting glucose levels becomes lower. But that first trimester, your glucose spikes and your glucose levels are similar to pre pregnancy. This means that essentially your non pregnant glucose levels can predict whether or not you're going to get gestational diabetes. Which means that gestational diabetes is not random. It actually has roots in what was happening before pregnancy. Meaning that if you had high glucose levels before pregnancy, you're more likely to get gestational diabetes. Gestational diabetes could actually just be a symptom of having high glucose levels before pregnancy, but just not knowing about it,
- [38:44]
Stephen
you know, when we say high glucose levels, is that a very individual thing? No, it's not an individual thing.
- [38:49]
Jesse Inshospay
No. We have very clear cutoffs. So, for example, if you're not pregnant, like you and I, 100 milligrams per deciliter is the cutoff between healthy and prediabetes. So that's fasting glucose level, your glucose level first thing in the morning. If you're pregnant, that changes. Anything above 92 milligrams per deciliter is considered diabetes of pregnancy. So high glucose levels, it's very well segmented. We have these very specific ranges that say normal too high, much too high.
- [39:22]
Stephen
But if me and you both have this teaspoon of this honey that I have here on the desk, our responses to this honey are going to be completely different, right?
- [39:29]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah. The glucose spike we experience is going to be different for a bunch of reasons. Our microbiome, our genetics, how much muscle mass we have, how hydrated, how stressed, how tired we are. So maybe you're going to get a spike or like, I don't know, 30 milligrams and maybe I'll get a 45 milligrams because I'm tired now. What does that mean? It doesn't mean that honey is necessarily better for you than it is for me. It just means that my body today is more or less good at managing this influx of glucose.
- [40:00]
Stephen
Today?
- [40:01]
Jesse Inshospay
Today. Yeah, today. And it also means something very important, which is that if you and I both used a glucose hack. So for example, if you and I both had a chicken breast before the honey, both you and I would have a smaller glucose spike from that same honey. So glucose hacks and ways to reduce your glucose spikes work in everyone. The exact absolute values after eating something, these can vary. But one thing that is true for everybody is that you're fasting glucose. So glucose before you eat anything, that is something we can compare. So if you and I both, at 7am, before we eat anything, we had our fasting glucose levels checked. We could compare. We could say, oh, Jesse is very close to prediabetes and Steven is not very close to prediabetes. Those are very easy numbers to compare. The spikes after eating, these can vary.
- [40:51]
Stephen
So if I put on a little bit more muscle, that means that I'll tolerate glucose better.
- [40:56]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, because your muscles are an amazing sink where your body is soaking up glucose from your bloodstream. And that's why we see that even during pregnancy, having high muscle mass is protective against diabetes. So women with higher muscle mass in pregnancy are less likely to have gestational diabetes. Let me give you an example. So we eat this honey. What happens? The honey goes from our mouth to our stomach to our intestine, and then it goes through our intestinal wall into our bloodstream. So all these glucose molecules are arriving into our bloodstream. Now there's two options. Either we stay here and we don't move. In that case, glucose is going to rise in our bloodstream. Big glucose spike and then crash. Or we say, okay, let's go outside and go for a walk. Right after we eat this honey, we're walking, our muscles are contracting, our leg muscles are contracting, our arm muscles are contracting. And these muscles, as they're contracting, they're looking for energy. And the first place they look is in the bloodstream. They look for glucose in the bloodstream, which is why if you move after you eat glucose, you will get a smaller glucose spike because some of that glucose is being used by your muscles for energy.
- [42:00]
Stephen
I've heard you tell people that they should do some stuff with their calves.
- [42:04]
Jesse Inshospay
Calf raises. Yeah. Okay, so put your feet on the ground, Stephen, and just do some calf push ups. Calf raises. So you go up onto the ends of Your feet and back down.
- [42:13]
Stephen
Okay, so you got it. I'm lifting my heels.
- [42:16]
Jesse Inshospay
Exactly. Lift your heels up and down. So as you do this, there's a muscle in your calf called the soleus muscle. Can you feel it contract? It's your calf muscle.
- [42:23]
Stephen
Yeah.
- [42:23]
Jesse Inshospay
Okay. So this muscle is very good at soaking up glucose from your bloodstream. So easy hack you can do after you eat something sweet, is you just do some calf raises at your desk like this, nobody could notice. Five minutes. And that's going to help reduce the glucose spike of what you just ate.
- [42:40]
Stephen
I mean, five minutes?
- [42:41]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, I mean, you can do five minutes in the studies, they do sometimes hours of this. But even just one minute is better than nothing to reduce your glucose spike.
- [42:51]
Stephen
I mean, this is probably why a lot of cultures go for a walk after dinner, right?
- [42:54]
Jesse Inshospay
Completely. And a lot of the glucose hacks that I've talked about, they actually mirror a lot of traditions. So, for example, the glucose hack of having your vegetables at the beginning of your meal, this is incredibly powerful, pregnancy or not pregnancy, because vegetables contain fiber. And when you have them at the beginning of your meal, they create this protective mesh in your intestine that slows down the glucose molecules from carbs and makes the glucose molecules arrive more slowly into your bloodstream, meaning smaller spike. Now, eating veggies at the beginning of a meal, that's something that we call crudite in France, which means raw veggies at the beginning of your meal. Meal.
- [43:35]
Stephen
What other simple exercises do you recommend? If I've just eaten something that's high in glucose, that I can do quickly to help bring down my glucose spike. Right. That's ultimately what it's going to do, bring down the spike.
- [43:47]
Jesse Inshospay
The best thing to do is to move your body. So get up, find a spot in your apartment that needs to be tidied, find a place you got a vacuum, find some laundry to do, and do that within 90 minutes after eating. Your muscles are your best ally in reducing your glucose spikes after you've eaten.
- [44:04]
Stephen
So what's going on there? I start eating a cake, I finish eating the cake. How long have I got to get that cake into my muscles?
- [44:13]
Jesse Inshospay
That's a great way to put it. You have about 90 minutes, so an hour and a half.
- [44:17]
Stephen
Okay.
- [44:17]
Jesse Inshospay
That's when the spike is usually gonna be at its maximum.
- [44:21]
Stephen
So if I start squatting.
- [44:22]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, squats are a great, great tool.
- [44:24]
Stephen
I wanna go for a big muscle, right?
- [44:26]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, absolutely. So there's some studies showing that if you do, I think it's five squats or 10 squats every five minutes. That is a very, very powerful way to get your glucose spike down. Now, you don't always have the space to do some squats, but if you're alone and at home, go for it. That's one of the best ones.
- [44:43]
Stephen
So what's going on in my body there? I start squatting. I'm working my glutes.
- [44:47]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, so your glutes are looking for energy, and the first place they look is in your blood. They're looking for glucose.
- [44:52]
Stephen
Okay.
- [44:52]
Jesse Inshospay
Because glucose is the energy that your muscles are using.
- [44:55]
Stephen
Okay. Do you use standing desks? I've really got into it.
- [44:58]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, I do. I have a desk at home that moves up and down.
- [45:01]
Stephen
Same.
- [45:02]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah. But sometimes if I'm tired, I just feel more tired with the standing desk, so I have to have a bit of energy left over. Do you always use the standing desk?
- [45:08]
Stephen
I mean, I kind of oscillate between standing and sitting, but I think especially in, like, the morning, I find it to be really, really good.
- [45:15]
Jesse Inshospay
You just gave me an idea for a glucose test. I should do the same. Muffin and afterwards. Standing desk for 30 minutes or sitting at the desk for 30 minutes. That's a great test. Well, we need to put some stellar glucose monitors on before, but, yes, we can do it. We should do it. So I will eat a muffin first thing in the morning, then stand for 30 minutes, and the next day, I will eat a muffin first thing in the morning and then sit for 30 minutes, and I'll send you the spike. And we can see. We can see how much glucose is being burned when we're standing at our desk.
- [45:44]
Stephen
Okay. Well, we're going to put that. The results in the episodes now. So what you see on the screen, if you're watching, is the results of Jesse standing after having a muffin. And then these results, which you see on the screen are Jesse sitting after having a muffin.
- [46:04]
Jesse Inshospay
And either we'll see that the spikes are very similar, which means that standing doesn't use much more muscle energy than sitting, or we will see that standing is using up some of the glucose from my bloodstream, and therefore the spike is smaller after the muffin.
- [46:20]
Stephen
On that point of exercise, mothers are given conflicting advice about what to do when they're pregnant. Some people say exercise is not good. Some people say it's great. What's your position from all the research you've done as to whether mothers should be doing exercise during pregnancy?
- [46:35]
Jesse Inshospay
Exercise is incredibly good for your baby's development and there's one study done in animals, because we can't do many studies in humans when it comes to pregnancy for obvious ethical reasons. But there's this incredible study which I think is my favorite study in the book. So scientists took two groups of pregnant rats, and they gave them the exact same housing conditions, diet, lighting, everything. The only difference is that one group also had these tiny little treadmills that they had to walk on for 30 minutes a day, every day during pregnancy. So same exact conditions. The only difference is one group of pregnant rats is moving 30 minutes a day on these tiny treadmills. Then they wait for the babies to be born, and they put the babies in these mazes to kind of measure how quickly they're solving the maze. And they also measured the baby's anxiety levels. They found that the babies that were born to the moms who were exercising solved the maze twice as fast and had fewer anxiety symptoms. So they found this strong association between a mom exercising during pregnancy and the outcomes of the baby's brain. And the main theory is that when we exercise, there's this molecule produced in our brain called bdnf. And it's got a complicated name, but what it does is that it helps neuroplasticity. It helps your neurons create new connections. And we know that in humans when we exercise. That's one of the reasons exercise is good for the brain, because it increases bdnf. And in these pregnant rats, they found not only were the mom's BDNFs higher, but the baby's BDNF levels inside of the wombs was also higher. And they believe that is why they saw this impact on the baby's brain development after birth. So what happens in the womb is really setting up a strong foundation for your baby's brain. It's laying out the basic architecture, which is why it's so important to do these simple hacks to give your baby's brain the optimal nutrients that it needs to form proper lovely.
- [48:44]
Stephen
What is. There's a little metaphor over there. Those two plant pots. What is the metaphor?
- [48:49]
Jesse Inshospay
Okay, so both of these plants come from identical seeds. The only difference is what they were planted in. So one of these plants was planted in basically little rocks and gravel with a tiny bit of soil in it. The other seed was planted in. In rich, fertilized soil. What is this showing us? We intuitively understand that when we're planting a seed, the soil we choose is important, right? We understand that the same seed is not gonna lead to the same tree depending on where we plant it. And I think for pregnancy we've lost this intuition because your baby is a seed. You, as the mother's body, you are the soil. And the soil is gonna co create your baby's plant. So when you're pregnant, you have this little baby with his DNA plan. But depending on the nutrients you provide, he's going to grow into a different tree. He's either going to grow in a super optimal tree that has all the nutrients he needed, or he's going to have to adapt to what's available and grow into a slightly different tree. Now the main difference is that humans are not plants. So humans are very resilient. Your baby will probably be okay. Even if like 90% of us, you don't have enough choline, Even if like 75% of us, you don't have enough omega 3s, even if like 70% of us, you don't have enough protein. And even if like most of us, you're eating more than the recommended amount of sugar, your baby will probably be fine. But he will be adapting to a slightly suboptimal nutrient environment. So that's what this metaphor is all about. You're co creating the plan of your baby with your diet during pregnancy. And it's shaping him and he's adapting and calibrating to what you're giving him. Steve, what are you doing?
- [50:42]
Stephen
Just making myself a delicious coffee from the freezer. From the freezer? Have you not heard about contier?
- [50:47]
Jesse Inshospay
No.
- [50:48]
Stephen
Oh my gosh. This is going to change your life. A couple of months ago, the founder of this business called Matt sent a big shipment of this coffee to our office in London. This coffee is like nothing you've ever seen before. What most people don't know is that the processing of coffee takes out a lot of the taste. So they do is they flash freeze it at the optimal moment when it's most tasty. And they send you in the post the coffee in these little frozen ice cubes. Now, Matt sent a big shipment to my office. I moved it to the kitchen. I said to the team, knock yourselves out, give this a try. And then I saw so many messages in our slack channel of people going, oh my God, what the hell is that? It's so delicious. All I have to do is pop it out in the morning using the little button on the back of this thing. I pour my hot water in and I mix it and that is done. You can get $30 off your first order of Cometeer coffee if you go to cometeer.com Stephen and it won't be available for long, so get that discount while you can. I'm not going to be a pregnant mother in my life, but I am going to have a fiance, hopefully at some point who is a pregnant mother. So I would really like to know how I can help as a partner. But also I'm sure she's going to listen to this, so what she can do to make sure that the soil in which my bab grows is optimal. We've talked about a few of the things so far, like choline, and we've also talked about sugar and glucose levels throughout pregnancy to avoid gestational diabetes. We've talked about exercise as well. What about alcohol?
- [52:16]
Jesse Inshospay
Not a good idea. Because as I explained, your bloodstream and your baby's bloodstream are basically connected. So when you drink alcohol during pregnancy, your blood alcohol level rises, and then your baby blood alcohol level in your uterus also rises. There's no filter protecting your baby from alcohol. So when you have a glass of wine, your baby's also having a glass of wine in the room. And we know that alcohol is not good for our brains. And this also goes for babies. So you wouldn't put red wine in your baby's bottle after birth and give him red wine to drink. But that's kind of what's going on when you're drinking alcohol, when you're putting pregnant. And there's been a lot of, a lot of stuff online about, oh, alcohol during pregnancy is fine in small quantities. I think when you understand how alcohol is toxic to the brain biologically, it makes no sense to tell pregnant moms that a little bit of alcohol is okay. It's best, if you can, to avoid alcohol entirely.
- [53:14]
Stephen
So complete abstinence.
- [53:15]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah.
- [53:16]
Stephen
There was actually a study that came out in February last year, which is quite recent from the University of Melbourne, where they used high resolution 3D imaging to reveal that even low doses of alcohol cause facial morphing. Consistent changes in the shape of the eyes and nose at 12 months, persisting up to age 8. And weaker connections in the. In the right anterior cingulate part of the brain, the region critical for emotional regulation and impulse control, even if the mother drank only occasionally, which is very surprising because I think for a long time we've always thought that that heavy consumption of alcohol was a problem.
- [53:56]
Jesse Inshospay
And we know that. Yeah.
- [53:57]
Stephen
But even low doses are suboptimal.
- [54:00]
Jesse Inshospay
It's kind of, it kind of goes for all adults.
- [54:02]
Stephen
Right.
- [54:02]
Jesse Inshospay
We thought for a long time that one glass of wine per day was good for the heart. Now, we understand that the ideal amount of alcohol is zero. Like there's no benefit to alcohol. Now is that to say that one glass of wine during pregnancy is going to, you know, indelibly impact your baby's brain? Probably not. But if you can avoid it, this is the best time to avoid it entirely.
- [54:24]
Stephen
What about when you're breastfeeding?
- [54:26]
Jesse Inshospay
Ooh, well, you have much more leeway then because the amount of alcohol in your breast milk mirrors the amount of alcohol in your bloodstream. So for example, if you have a glass of wine two and a half to three hours later, you have pretty much no more alcohol in your bloodstream, which means your breast milk is also pretty much devoid of alcohol. So if you time it right, you're going to be able to have a glass of wine without it actually going into your breast milk. But it's all about time. Caffeine, the recommendation is to stay under two cups of coffee per day during pregnancy. It's not a neurotoxin like alcohol. Right. But caffeine does go to your baby's bloodstream. And some studies show that babies are more active in the womb after the mother drinks caffeine. And it has no benefit. So listen, you do what you can. I reduced a little bit my caffeine intake. Instead of having like two fat whites, I had maybe half a flat white or decaf that white when I could. But some days I just really wanted a coffee, so I had a coffee.
- [55:22]
Stephen
Have they ever done any studies on caffeine and pregnancy?
- [55:26]
Jesse Inshospay
Well, we can't do any studies on caffeine and pregnancy in humans. It's unethical to test anything in pregnant moms. We have associations and the associations don't show much difference. Like we don't have studies that show caffeine intake in moms leads to this kind of bad outcome in the kids. It seems pretty neutral at low doses. If you have really high doses of caffeine, there is an impact on the baby's, well, associative impact on the baby's temperament. But for one or two cups a day, there's no impact that we find.
- [55:53]
Stephen
And they've done animal studies?
- [55:55]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, they've done animal studies. Low doses also fine, very high doses. We start to see changes in the baby's behavior.
- [56:00]
Stephen
You talk about this in the book. In certain animal studies, they show during pregnancy leads to smaller offspring, altered heart development and delayed brain growth. But you explain that we don't have direct clinical trial data on the long term impact of caffeine during human Pregnancy.
- [56:14]
Jesse Inshospay
And also those studies are very high doses of caffeine.
- [56:16]
Stephen
Okay.
- [56:17]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah.
- [56:17]
Stephen
And the World Health Organization recommends that women who consume more than 300 milligrams of coffee a day, which is roughly three cups, reduce their daily intake during pregnancy.
- [56:25]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah. So probably one cup a day is not harming your baby.
- [56:29]
Stephen
Fermented foods in the gut. What about that?
- [56:31]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah.
- [56:31]
Stephen
What should I be thinking about there?
- [56:32]
Jesse Inshospay
Well, this is very early research, but showing that potentially if a mother has fermented food during pregnancy, it's also seeding her baby's gut microbiome. But this is very, very early stuff. But if you can some kefir, some sauerkraut during pregnancy, it's helpful.
- [56:49]
Stephen
What about bread? Do you think much about bread?
- [56:51]
Jesse Inshospay
Do I think much about bread? I mean, I'm French, so I think about bread all the time.
- [56:56]
Stephen
In terms of your recommendations on the type of bread one should be eating,
- [57:00]
Jesse Inshospay
well, bread is interesting because bread is a carb that contains mostly glucose. And we know that in the third trimester of pregnancy, your baby actually needs more glucose because he's developing and he also needs energy. Your baby needs about 70 grams of glucose per day at the very end of pregnancy. So as a pregnant mom, you should be eating 70 grams of glucose more than you usually do at the end of pregnancy. For the first and second trimesters, you don't need to be eating much more glucose. So you could have that via bread. You could have that via rice, for example. So 70 grams of glucose is about three slices of bread or a cup and a half of rice. In terms of the type of bread you should be eating, it's always better for your glucose levels to have bread that is full of seeds. But to be honest, there's not a huge difference between, like, sprouted grain bread versus white bread. It's all just glucose.
- [57:52]
Stephen
Because there is a. I guess there's a risk that mothers might get a little bit scared of having sugary foods during pregnancy. And then you've just said the baby does need glucose.
- [58:02]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah. So there's a difference. So glucose is present in carbs and starches, meaning bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, oats. So starches contain glucose, but starches are different to sugars. So on this plate, we only have sugars. These are the sweet foods that contain glucose, but also another molecule that makes them sweet, called fructose. Your baby needs no fructose during pregnancy ever. So your baby does not need any sugar. From dessert, from chocolate, from muffins, from cupcakes. Your baby needs none of it. This but your baby does need glucose, which is healthier to get from starches like bread, pasta, rice, potatoes.
- [58:44]
Stephen
What about the ketogenic diet while you're pregnant?
- [58:48]
Jesse Inshospay
I don't think there's enough evidence to tell us whether it's okay or not. It's very early, it's quite rare. And it seems that since your baby does need glucose during pregnancy, it's just easier to eat glucose and to eat starches when you're pregnant. And whole fruit is also a good way of getting the glucose that you need, because thanks to the fiber in the water. Water, the amount of fructose in the fruit is not leading to such a big fructose spike.
- [59:13]
Stephen
There's a study on the G1D foundation that basically says for 99% of pregnancies, a strict ketogenic diet is considered dangerous. Doctors instead recommend a low glycemic index diet.
- [59:23]
Jesse Inshospay
And low glycemic diets mean a diet with smaller glucose spikes. And this is really helpful for people with gestational diabetes. It helps them manage their spikes and reduce the need for medication. But also for any pregnant mom, it's important to think about your glucose spikes, because when you have a glucose spike, your baby has a glucose spike, and glucose spikes are not good news. It's better to give your baby slow, rolling hills of glucose and not these big spikes that can lead to more inflammation. And as we talked about, more inflammation can impact the baby's brain development.
- [59:55]
Stephen
Do you recommend that mothers take certain supplements? Did you take supplements throughout your pregnancy?
- [60:00]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, I took Omega 3s. And the reason I took Omega 3 supplements is because Omega 3s also form the baby's brain, and they come from algae in the ocean and fish. Now, omega 3s and in particular one omega 3 called DHA. It helps your baby's neurons connect with each other. And this is really important. And in animal studies, when scientists restrict how much DHA a mother has access to, they see measurable impact on the baby's brain. They see brains that are less efficient. They see babies who find the exit of mazes with much more time. There's an impact on the brain development. Now, the easiest way to get enough DHA is to eat fish or to eat sardines that we have here. So the recommendation is fatty fish twice a week. I would say fatty fish three times a week, if you can. And this is also. It's amazing because it's very cheap. So these three cans of sardines are your three servings of fish per week. This gives you all the Omega 3s your baby needs. And this cost about in total total like 6, $7. So for 6, $7 per week and for another $7 of eggs per week, you're getting all the choline and all the Omega 3s your baby needs. Yeah. You're opening it and you're gonna eat it. Okay, you know, you wanna know how I have them?
- [61:22]
Stephen
How?
- [61:23]
Jesse Inshospay
Okay, Are you gonna eat it? Yeah, go for it. So I open the can, I put it in a bowl, I put mustard, I put sea salt, a little bit of feta, some herbs, and I make this sort of nice little paste. And then I toast a piece of bread and I put it on top of the bread and I have like a nice little sardine mash on my bread.
- [61:43]
Stephen
It is quite nice.
- [61:44]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah. And it's really good for you. Lots of omega 3s. And so for omega 3s, I also supplemented with additional omega 3s because I think the recommendation of fatty fish two, three times a day is lacking. Most moms don't have enough omega 3s in their body to give their baby everything that he needs. So I did this three times a week plus 2 grams of DHA supplement per day.
- [62:07]
Stephen
What else was in your supplement stack?
- [62:09]
Jesse Inshospay
Then in the third trimester, I took iron because my iron levels were very low. This often happens during pregnancy, even though I was eating a lot of meat because your baby is pulling a lot of iron from you. And then I had a sort of normal prenatal supplement, but I made sure it had choline in it and I made sure it had a tight of folic acid called methylated folate, which is better absorbed. And folate is very important to prevent miscarriage.
- [62:33]
Stephen
You talked about your first pregnancy and you said, we'll talk about that later. You went through miscarriage?
- [62:41]
Jesse Inshospay
Yes, Correct. So I got pregnant the first time and I thought everything would be totally fine. But I found out at the three month scan that the embryo had stopped developing. Developing. I had what's called a silent miscarriage. So usually when you miscarry, you start to lose blood, you have cramps, you know something's wrong. I had a silent miscarriage, which is more rare, meaning the embryo stopped developing. The embryo was dead. My body did not expulse it. So I found out that I had lost the pregnancy at the scan at the doctor's office. And I found out that I had been walking around for a month with an embryo that had stopped developing. And I had no idea. I thought I was still pregnant.
- [63:27]
Stephen
What is that like for someone like me that has Never experienced such news. What are the range of emotions and thoughts that occur when you get news like that?
- [63:42]
Jesse Inshospay
Listen, for me, it was so devastating. It was so, so difficult. I didn't want to believe it. I was screaming. I remember, like, falling to the floo. My living room and saying to whatever God or the universe, like, that I wanted my baby back. I was not okay. It was very, very difficult. I felt a lot of anger. I felt a lot of despair. I felt a sense of injustice. Like, why me? I felt like I had done everything right. Like, I was eating the choline, I was taking the right supplements. You know, I was not, like, smoking crack. And I still had a miscarriage. And. And I didn't know this happened. I didn't have it in my consciousness that it could happen to me. So I felt from very, very high. It was probably one of the most difficult experiences of my life.
- [64:28]
Stephen
Is this more common?
- [64:30]
Jesse Inshospay
1 in 5 pregnancies end in miscarriage.
- [64:32]
Stephen
That's really high. Like, way higher than I thought it was.
- [64:36]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah.
- [64:37]
Stephen
And is it usually in the.
- [64:39]
Jesse Inshospay
In the first trimester? In the first trimester, but it can happen later also? Yeah. And I felt so isolated, and I didn't feel like people around me knew how to. How to handle it because it's kind of taboo. And then when I miscarried, I started talking to people about it, and I found out that so many people around me had gone through it but had never told me about it.
- [65:02]
Stephen
When was your first pregnancy?
- [65:05]
Jesse Inshospay
So I got pregnant in February 2024. So the miscarriage was in spring 2024. And then I got pregnant again in August 2025. No, 2024. And my son was born in May 2025. So I got pregnant quite quickly afterwards. But it was difficult because I was still carrying the grief of the miscarriage. So I had a very anxious pregnancy. I was very anxious the whole time that something bad would happen again, that I would miscarry again and not know about it. It was very difficult.
- [65:45]
Stephen
Hmm.
- [65:47]
Jesse Inshospay
It's a trial of the heart, man.
- [65:52]
Stephen
It's. Yeah. The number's way higher than I expected. Just much higher than I expected. And it's scary. Scary to think about.
- [65:58]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah. And that's why people usually wait until the third month, mark, to tell their friends, friends and family that they're pregnant. And for some reason, I had no conception of that. So the moment I got that first pregnancy test, I told everybody. So it made it quite complicated to have to announce the miscarriage to, like, 50 people. But at the same time, I felt Less alone than I would have felt if nobody knew I was pregnant in the first place. Yeah, it was very, very challenging. And it's more common than we think, and it happens to more people than we know about.
- [66:31]
Stephen
Is there anything you wish you knew earlier in life about? I mean, we've talked about many of the things specifically around diet and, you know, and pregnancy. But is there anything else you wish someone had said to you as a woman earlier that you didn't hear?
- [66:46]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, I think I wish my mom had told me about her miscarriages. She had not.
- [66:51]
Stephen
Oh, really?
- [66:52]
Jesse Inshospay
Until I'm scared. Yep. I wish my grandmother had told me I did not know. I wish people had told me more about their experiences, because that way I would have understood that it happens to a lot of people, and maybe I would have been more prepared and maybe it would have made the experience a little bit less painful instead of feeling so. So isolated. Or at least I would have maybe been a bit more cautious.
- [67:16]
Stephen
Because you said one of the feelings and emotions you had was, why did this happen to me?
- [67:20]
Jesse Inshospay
Yes. I was like, why me? Why me? And then I realized it happens to many people and it's not necessarily a reason. It's nothing you've. It can be just a chromosomal abnormality and the embryo just can't develop anymore. It can be something we don't understand yet.
- [67:34]
Stephen
It's hard, isn't it, getting pregnant? Yeah, it's hard, I think. I don't know what lie I was living under, but I just assumed that getting pregnant was have sex unprotected.
- [67:43]
Jesse Inshospay
I know. Because your whole life you're told do all these things to not get pregnant because it might happen without you expecting it. And then when you try to get pregnant, you realize, oh, it's not at all as easy as I thought it. It was. It's a lot. And I was lucky. I got pregnant after, you know, two, three cycles both times. So that's very, very quick. But for some of my friends, it's taken them years to conceive.
- [68:05]
Stephen
How has becoming a mother changed you?
- [68:09]
Jesse Inshospay
It's made me happier. I feel like my baseline happiness is higher. I don't have. I used to have this like 10% kind of melancholy or spleen or sort of like, oh, maybe my life could be better if I did X or Y or like questioning, you know, do need more. How do I find happiness? And that's gone, like with my son. That has been filled, and I didn't expect it to be filled. So that's been amazing. And it's made me very efficient because now when I have 42 minutes, I use those 42 minutes. Like, I cannot imagine how much time I used to have. Like, what did I used to do? And I thought I was busy. Now I'm really busy. It's so funny to look back at my life before and what I used to think and realize that I was busy. Completely wrong. I was so wrong. I thought I was busy and I thought I was tired. I wasn't. Now I am. You feel very busy, right?
- [69:06]
Stephen
I feel so busy.
- [69:07]
Jesse Inshospay
And you feel tired.
- [69:08]
Stephen
I do. I do. Sometimes ask myself, you know, because again, I'm in that season of life. I do. Like, where am I going to get the. Where's the time going to come from?
- [69:15]
Jesse Inshospay
You just prioritize so many things. You just delegate or you don't do anymore and you find the time because your baby is the most important thing. And I think I've become better at my work because I'm more efficient. And I thought I was pretty efficient before, but now I'm like, superhuman.
- [69:33]
Stephen
On that point of parenting and pregnancy and everything we've been talking about, you said that you spoke to your mother about the diet she had and her lifestyle when she was growing you inside her. If your parents did have a suboptimal lifestyle and diet, this is a bit of a strange question to ask, but is there something that I can do now as an adult to reverse that totally?
- [69:58]
Jesse Inshospay
Well, first of all, my mom was eating a lot of sugar, but it wasn't her fault. Like, culture around her was telling her, fat is bad, eat low fat foods. She was just a product of her time. Like, we all are. So our diet today is just a function of what food marketing is going on. So again, it's not our fault. We're just kind of swimming in this sea of the food industry and marketing, and we do the best we can. Pregnancy is important. It has an outsized effect on our vulnerability to disease. But it's not everything. So I told you, at 25, I was on the cusp of pre diabetes. Well, I implemented the glucose hacks. I found all the science, and I never got pre diabetes. So you're probably going to be fine. It's more of the difference between, like. So I have two friends, I have Gabriel and Nicholas, us. And they both work out the same and eat the same. One of them builds muscle really easily and has a lot of muscle mass. The other one doesn't. They're not equal. However, it doesn't mean that they both can't build muscle. It might just be a little bit more difficult for one than for the other. Same thing with diabetes. One person may get diabetes with the same diet as another person who doesn't get it. Well, when you apply things, when you change your diet, you can change the course of your life. You can change what diseases you. You face, but you might be more or less vulnerable. So we always have agency, we always have power, no matter our age, no matter where we are in life, to take back control.
- [71:19]
Stephen
Cravings. Cravings are where it all begins. You know, you can know everything.
- [71:25]
Jesse Inshospay
Wait, say more about that. What do you mean?
- [71:26]
Stephen
Like, you could know. You can have all the information. I'm sure that there's people that listen to this podcast, including me, who know a lot about this stuff. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you have the. The control to take action. Because when your brain starts saying, go on, eat that thing. Go on, it'll be so tasty. And you know what you can do? Your calf raises after it all be fine. Like that voice in your head that talks you into things that you don't really want to do. And then 10 minutes later, you feel really guilty that you did it. I'm just wondering if you think much about the psychology of being in the things I can do upstream to either fend off the cravings or to have better agency and control over the cravings.
- [72:02]
Jesse Inshospay
So let's talk about that one voice, because that voice comes in two flavors. For some. The voice is, mmm, that cookie looks really, really good. Chocolate chip with sea salt. M. That looks tasty. I'm going to probably buy it after the end of this meeting. That is the voice of pleasure and enjoyment. There's another voice that might be in your brain, which is like, oh, my God, I need sugar right now. What's in the kitchen? I'm going to open the cupboards. Whatever there is. Oh, this weird old cookie. I need to have it right now. I need sugar. Otherwise I'm not going to feel good. Those are two very different voices. That second voice is a voice of control and of almost being like a victim. Sugar addiction. I want to help people go from the sugar addiction voice to the enjoyment voice. Because I think it's fine to have cravings of or to want to eat something delicious. I just want to make sure people are not controlled by that voice. Do you see what I mean? I want it to be something you enjoy, not something you are victim to. So how do we separate these two things out? We need to balance our glucose levels. So that that voice comes from a place of happiness and not a place of a glucose crash that is making you feel controlled by a biological impulse that is stronger than you. So protein in the morning, a savory breakfast, super, super important. Then a veggie starter before your lunch and your dinner when you can. Avoiding sugar on an empty stomach to not kick off a rollercoaster of blood sugar ups and downs, that's gonna make you crave more and more of this sweet stuff. But the voice that you just mentioned, which is like, oh, that looks really good, I'm gonna do some calf raises afterwards. I think that's fine. To me that doesn't sound like you're being controlled by it. It sounds like you kind of want to eat delicious food stuff.
- [73:33]
Stephen
But I regret it 10 minutes after
- [73:35]
Jesse Inshospay
and I go, why?
- [73:36]
Stephen
Because I think, you know, especially if it's at like 10pm yeah, because then
- [73:42]
Jesse Inshospay
it messes up your sleep.
- [73:43]
Stephen
It messes up my next day.
- [73:44]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah.
- [73:45]
Stephen
And why the hell did I do that? I knew I shouldn't eat it. Yeah, but the craving was too strong.
- [73:49]
Jesse Inshospay
And listen, sometimes that's a situation we're in. I do that too sometimes. Like sometimes it is 11pm, I'm exhausted. I know my son's probably going to wake up at 4am But I want that cookie. And I just, I just have it. Maybe I have some vinegar or some anti spike before. But it's okay to give in to these things. I don't think we have to feel guilty about them. Like that's just life. Sometimes we can't do the glucose hacks and sometimes we're tired and the cookie looks good. So eat the cookie.
- [74:11]
Stephen
But it annoys me because I then feel shit the next day and I go, well, you know, was it worth it? Absolutely not. Objectively, absolutely not.
- [74:18]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah. So maybe if you had had that cookie after some almonds or if after the cookie you could do some laundry or move around a little bit to reduce the spike, maybe you could help with your deep sleep during that night. But sometimes you can't.
- [74:31]
Stephen
I think as well the subject of sleep and glucose. Glucose is one we, we don't talk about enough because some people really struggle with their sleep. And I've just noticed that when I'm in a heavy travel period and I'm flying and waking up early at 4am, fly to LA, fly Miami, go to Qatar, wherever, my ability to control cravings is significantly reduced. And weirdly, I noticed that when I wake up at say I, I had, I don't know, I had dinner at 9pm the night before. If I'm woken up at like 3 or 4am am, I wake up really hungry?
- [75:04]
Jesse Inshospay
Interesting. Have you worn a glucose monitor to see if you're not crashing in the middle of the night?
- [75:09]
Stephen
No, but I've always been so curious as to why that is, because I know that if I'd slept for four hours more, I would have been like, today, where the first thing I've eaten today and it's what, 2pm? Is that sardine? Because I just wasn't hungry this morning. But if I'd woken up early, I mean, I've looked a little bit into it.
- [75:26]
Jesse Inshospay
I have a question. Do you think. Do you think it's the time you wake up that is causing you to be more or less hungry, or it's the dinner you had the night before that is causing a crash that is causing you to wake up? Like, what's the chicken? What's the egg? Because it sounds to me like maybe at 3am, if you're having a glucose crash because you had a big carb heavy dinner, then it's your body waking you up and making you feel very hungry. For me, it's kind of similar. Like in the morning, if I feel extremely hungry, it's usually because I went to bed and I had just had a bunch of carbs before bed.
- [75:54]
Stephen
Well, thanks to the ability to do very quick research, I now know the answer, or at least a solid hypothesis. And the leading answer as to why, when you're sleep deprived, you end up eating worse is because of the hormone imbalance of leptin and ghrelin. Sleep deprivation directly alters the hunger hormones produced in your gut and fat cells. If ghrelin increases, known as hunger hormone, ghrelin signals the brain that it's time to eat. Studies from Stanford University show sleeping for only five hours increases ghrelin by approximately 15%. Leptin decreases. The satiety hormone, tells your brain you are full. The same sleep loss decreases leptin by approximately 15%. And therefore the result is that your brain receives a loud I am starving signal and a very weak I'm full signal simultaneously.
- [76:37]
Jesse Inshospay
And leptin is the hormone we talked about at the beginning, which, when you're breastfed as a baby, you're epigenetically making more leptin and this setting can stay with you for life. So it's possible that also there's some stuff going on in early life that makes you more or less hungry to
- [76:52]
Stephen
speak to my mum, you know, every once in a While you come across a product that has such a huge impact on your life that you'd probably describe as a game changer. And I would say for about 35 to 40% of my team, they would currently describe this product that I have in front of me called Ketone IQ, which you can get@ketone.com as a game changer. But the reason I became a co owner of this company and the reason why they now are a sponsor of this podcast is because was one day when I came to work, there was a box of this stuff sat on my desk. I had no idea what it was. Lily. And my team says that this company have been in touch. So I went upstairs, tried it and quite frankly the rest is history in terms of my focus, my energy levels, how I feel, how I work, how productive I am. Game changer. So if you want to give it a try, visit ketone.com stephen for 30% off. You'll also get a free gift with your second shipment. And now you can find Ketone IQ at Target stores across the United States, where Your first shop not is completely free of charge. For the first 10 years that I was a founder, I didn't prioritize getting a good night's sleep at all. But over time, I started to realize that it was the key metric that influenced everything in my life. I moved my focus, my ability to show up and to think clearly and to lead well. So now, with my lifestyle being pretty crazy, traveling across time zones, working late, training late, I still fight to protect my sleep, which sometimes means starting the day a little bit later. It was my whoop that helped me to make this connection. They are one of my sponsors for the show. And for the last four years, every day, my whoop has given me insights into my sleep, my recovery, the strain I'm taking on, and more broadly, how my daily behaviors influence my overall holistic health. It's the difference between guessing and knowing why I might be feeling the way that I feel. Sometimes it'll nudge me, sometimes it'll get me to slow down. Sometimes it pushes me to go even harder. But all the time it provides me with data that gives me a deeper understanding of myself. And without it, it'd be hard to optimize how I live and perform. Right now. You can get one month free through my link at join.whoop.com CEO one month free join.whoop.com CEO make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10, 000 of you to Come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes conversations with the guests and also the episodes that we've never, never, ever released. And so much more. In the circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember, for now we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So if you want to join our private, close community, head to the link in the description below or go to doac circle.com I will speak to you there. What is the most important thing we haven't talked about as it relates to nine months that count forever? Your new book that we should have talked about, I think.
- [79:58]
Jesse Inshospay
Protein.
- [79:59]
Stephen
Protein, yeah.
- [80:00]
Jesse Inshospay
By the time your baby's born, he is about 50% protein, if you exclude water. So protein is not just for your muscles. Protein forms your immune system, your skin, your organs, many, many tissues, many, many signaling molecules and your body. So when you're pregnant, you need to eat more protein to give more protein to your baby. And animal studies show something fascinating, Stephen. They show that when a mom is slightly protein restricted, meaning she's eating a bit less protein than she needs to, there's a little epigenetic switch happening in the baby that says, dear baby, keep your muscles small, because there's not a lot of protein in the world you're about to be born into. So what we're eating during pregnancy, pregnancy is in essence sending a little postcard to our baby in our uterus telling him what kind of nutrients will be available in the world that he's about to be born into. And so these animal studies suggest that if you have a low protein diet, your baby will be programmed to stay smaller and have smaller muscle mass throughout his life. And the thing is, Stephen, you need a lot of protein when you're pregnant because your baby is very protein hungry. So here I have four chicken and breasts, which is basically the amount of protein that I needed to eat every single day. Day in the third trimester of pregnancy.
- [81:17]
Stephen
Day.
- [81:17]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, Per day. Per day. It's a lot. So I would have four eggs in the morning. That's about 30 grams of protein. And then I would have to have three good servings of proteins represented by the three chicken breasts here. So I would have fish at lunch, probably a meat or a chicken at dinner, and then a high protein snack, for example, Greek yogurt. I would add some whey protein powder in and there to make sure I was having enough protein. So you need about 1.6 grams of protein per kilo of body weight per day in the third trimester of pregnancy. And this is where most of us fall short because nobody's telling moms they need to eat more protein. So the result is that moms lose their muscle mass because the muscles are being broken down to give protein to the baby. But there's a limit to it. Like you can't, your muscle mass cannot compensate for a low protein. And this is why we see across all women, all studies, low protein diets lead to smaller babies and potentially this epigenetic programming of staying smaller throughout life. So protein is key.
- [82:19]
Stephen
On that subject of muscle loss, have you thought much about the impact of GLP1s, these sort of fat loss drugs during pregnancy?
- [82:28]
Jesse Inshospay
Oh, wow. I don't think they're recommended during pregnancy. I hope not because they prevent you from feeling your hunger hormones, they prevent you from feeling hungry. So pregnancy would be a very dangerous time to take these because during pregnancy you need to eat a little bit more in terms of quantity and calories, but also you need to eat differently. So you need to learn about the protein, the Choline, the Omega 3s. And I think it would be quite dangerous to take a GLP1 during pregnancy.
- [82:56]
Stephen
Do you know the vinegar thing you talked about to me before where you said you have vinegar vinegar before eating something that's high in glucose?
- [83:02]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah.
- [83:03]
Stephen
Do you recommend that for mothers as well?
- [83:05]
Jesse Inshospay
You can, but if you're going to do that, you need to make sure the vinegar is pasteurized because you want to make sure that during pregnancy people are like only eat pasteurized foods because you want to prevent any food contamination. So make sure you look on the back of the vinegar bottle and make sure it's pasteurized. Apple cider vinegar is usually not pasteurized. So do I recommend it? I think it's okay to do like vinegar is fine during pregnancy, especially if you really want like a cookie or a muffin, it could be helpful to reduce the glucose spike. But truly pregnancy is kind of the moment where you need to be eating as little sugar as possible because it's impacting your baby's development. So ideally you don't have to use the vinegar hack you know, I've often
- [83:48]
Stephen
seen people talk about like an obesity gene and stuff and ask if obesity is genetic. I guess one of the things I've kind of deduced from today is that the genetic component might be that during pregnancy, our mother had a certain lifestyle or diet, and that increased our predisposition to having a different reaction to certain foods completely.
- [84:13]
Jesse Inshospay
And the studies show that. So in animal studies, when a mom has a lot of sugar during the pregnancy, there's little epigenetic switches in the baby's DNA that encourage fat storage. Oh, okay, so why is that? Because if you eat sugar, your baby's getting sugar in his bloodstream. And how does the baby protect himself from high sugar levels? By turning the sugar into fat. So by eating a high sugar diet, you're sending a little postcard to your baby, being like, hey, baby, you're going to be born into a world with a lot of sugar. So become really good at turning that sugar into fat to protect, protect yourself. And this is why we see across studies on tens of thousands of moms that the higher a mom's glucose levels during pregnancy, the more fat mass a baby is born with higher glucose during pregnancy, baby had to turn that glucose to fat to protect himself. So he's born with more fat mass. And it doesn't just stop after birth. Studies show that this continues. Babies born to high glucose mothers are more likely to have obesity, obesity as children, as teenagers, and as adults. So the cycle continues. The programming of storing a lot of fat continues even though they're no longer connected to their mom's bloodstream.
- [85:22]
Stephen
In the process of producing this book, did you think much about the evolutionary sort of backstory of where we came from and how our ancestors used to eat? Did you consider, I don't know, the orangutan, where we share most of our DNA? I think it's like 90% of our
- [85:36]
Jesse Inshospay
DNA, because if you look at sort of what we used to eat most, meaning nutrient rich organ meats, and not just like a chicken breast, which is just muscle, which is actually very poor in nutrients. If you think about how we didn't used to eat processed foods, we had a diet that was much more conducive to baby having more of what he needed in the womb. Today, our food system is failing us. We're all deprived of proper nutrition with what we're eating with all these ultra processed foods, and that includes pregnant moms. So I tried to write a book that was going to help people navigate this very toxic food landscape to see these four simple things they could do to try to optimize a little bit what the baby was getting. But it's a lot to think about. And also, being pregnant comes with, I think, innate pressure. Like, I felt pressure during pregnancy. Like, man, I'm making another human. Like, this is a lot. And then you're bombarded by messages online and Instagram, what to do, what not to do, and it feels like whatever you do, you feel guilty. So I'm hoping this book gives clear science, scientific evidence to help people navigate that pressure. But listen, I just want babies to be healthy. Like, I want my baby to be healthy. I want everybody's baby to be healthy. I want moms to feel as little stress as possible. And that's just the truth. And I'm hoping that this book brings a little bit of reassurance and light in this complicated world with David.
- [86:57]
Stephen
Stress is something we haven't talked about, but I guess that also is an important factor in this story of raising a healthy child.
- [87:04]
Jesse Inshospay
I was extremely stressed my entire pregnancy because of my miscarriage. Like, I probably the nine months of my pregnancy with my son were the nine most anxious months of my life. And that's probably not very good for my baby. But, hey, you do what you can, you know, I tried everything to reduce my stress levels. I just couldn't. I was so nervous about losing the pregnancy.
- [87:23]
Stephen
You tried everything?
- [87:24]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, I mean, everything. I didn't take anxiety medication, but I was, you know, doing yoga and breathwork and working out and talking to my therapist and blah, blah, blah. But I. I was still anxious because I really didn't want to lose the pregnancy and I was scared I would. Why are you smiling?
- [87:40]
Stephen
But you didn't.
- [87:41]
Jesse Inshospay
No, I didn't.
- [87:41]
Stephen
Yeah. And you have a happy, healthy little baby.
- [87:46]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah.
- [87:47]
Stephen
You want to have more babies?
- [87:49]
Jesse Inshospay
I would love to, but, man, now it's like logistics. Like, okay, so I'm doing this project and that project and this work thing. So where can I find nine months plus six months where I can't really work in this crazy, crazy schedule that I create for myself, by the way. I just love my work, so I'm always planning new things.
- [88:08]
Stephen
When you look at products in the supermarket, I think we all have a different thing we go straight to on the label. You know, sometimes people go to calories, sometimes they look at protein, sometimes they're looking at, is it gluten free? Sometimes they look at the carbohydrates or the sugars. What do you look for?
- [88:22]
Jesse Inshospay
Ingredients. I go straight to the ingredients list. Yeah, because in the ingredients list, things are ordered by weight. So the first ingredient is gonna to be what there is the most of in that food.
- [88:34]
Stephen
Oh, I had no idea.
- [88:35]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, so they're ordered by weight. So if there's sugar or any other type of sweet thing in the first five ingredients, like dates, like fruit juice, like molasses, like orange syrups, whatever, I know that's a dessert. And so I put it in my mind, okay, this is a food for enjoyment, for dessert. So if you look at the sardines. Sardines. Ingredients, Sardine, olive oil, salt, natural flavor. So I would try to look for one that doesn't have natural flavor because I don't know what that means. I don't think it's necessary. But as you can see, there's no sugar in here. So this is not dessert. This sardine can is not dessert. Isn't that helpful?
- [89:14]
Stephen
Because I often just look at the back of labels and I just go straight for the carbs and sugar level.
- [89:18]
Jesse Inshospay
Really?
- [89:19]
Stephen
Yeah. I don't know why I always look at the sugar level. I think it's because I've done keto for a little while.
- [89:23]
Jesse Inshospay
So it kind of depends, though, because if you're looking at, like, carbon sugars for a pack of table sugar. Sugar versus, I don't know, like protein shake. Yeah, a protein shake. I mean, it's a helpful place to look. That's also where I look. Because carbs and sugars will tell you a lot about what the food is going to do to you, but also it depends on the ratio. Right. If there's a lot of protein also, then having carbs in there is not going to create that big of a glucose spike. If it's a product that has just carbs, then yes, a lot of people
- [89:50]
Stephen
look at the calories.
- [89:51]
Jesse Inshospay
Yeah, but calories are a very bad way of. Of assessing a food, because two foods can have the exact same number of calories and be completely different in terms of what they do to your body. So an avocado and a donut, both 200 calories, vastly different impact. It's like saying two books are the same because they have the same number of pages. Calories and pages tell you nothing about what's inside the food or inside the book. We have to learn about molecules, which is why your reflex of going to carbs and sugar. Sugars is much smarter because you're seeing what's actually going to happen when you eat the food. For example, avocado and donut. The avocado, mostly fat, fiber, going to Keep your glucose levels nice and steady. Going to give your food healthy fat, your body healthy fats, donut, mostly sugars, is going to create a big glucose spike. Inflammation, aging, crash, cravings, fatigue. It's going to have a vastly different impact on your body. So only looking at your diet through the, the lens of calories is a very bad idea because two diets can have the exact same number of calories and you can have a completely different experience of life depending on what you're actually eating.
- [91:01]
Stephen
And what's your diet generally like? What time do you eat in the morning? Do you do fasting or anything like that?
- [91:06]
Jesse Inshospay
So no, I don't do fasting. So I'll have breakfast in the morning, always eggs. Right now my current kick is a bacon and egg cassette quesadilla, super good with coffee, always with whole milk that I love. Then for lunch I'll have a veggie starter if I'm having some carb heavy lunch or I'll have like a collard green chicken wrap with avocado and peppers. After lunch I always usually have something sweet because I love sugar. I love sugar. So I'll have like some chocolate or a nice cookie that I had and then I'll try to move my body if I can. This is the main thing. I can get a bit difficult. And then the evening is when I have most carbs. I love having rice or pasta at night. It just makes me feel cozy.
- [91:48]
Stephen
What time?
- [91:49]
Jesse Inshospay
As early as I can. I'm very un French in that way. If I could have dinner at 5pm I would, but I would have no more social life. So maybe after my baby's in bed. So like 7:38.
- [92:01]
Stephen
And are you having vinegar before that meal?
- [92:03]
Jesse Inshospay
It depends. If I don't have a veggie starter. Yeah, if I have a veggie starter, I'll put some vinegar on the veggie starter.
- [92:09]
Stephen
What else are you working on? What's next for you, Jessie?
- [92:11]
Jesse Inshospay
One is mental health. Because I have a deep passion for mental health. It's the reason I got into glucose in the first place. So I want to see if I can start putting together some mental health hacks based on studies. This is something that's been in the back of my mind for a long time and I'm trying to find the time to go there and I'm working on new types of content. I'm just endlessly inspired by what I'm able to to do and how lucky I am to like dream up something and be able to put it together. So lots of surprises coming.
- [92:43]
Stephen
As you know, we have a closing treat on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next. I do know, and the question left for you is if you could make the world a better place in one way, what would you change? How could you make the most impact?
- [92:58]
Jesse Inshospay
I would maybe outlaw food marketing or maybe outlaw law, sugary breakfast foods. Something about making very bad foods that are that look healthy, making those illegal. It would be illegal to put any health claims on a product. For example, no added sugars or vegan or gluten free. I would outlaw all of those to help people navigate a bit better. Or if I could have like one magic wand to do one thing, maybe I would say no more fruit juice in schools. Even that would be really cool.
- [93:31]
Stephen
Nine months that count forever. How your pregnancy diet shapes your baby's future. What is the closing message? Jesse, for pregnant couples and anybody who has once conceived of themselves, the closing
- [93:47]
Jesse Inshospay
message is pregnancy is complicated. The food system we live in is complicated and toxic. And this is a very simple four step, step, trimester by trimester plan that doesn't require a lot of money that is going to help you give your baby the best foundation during development.
- [94:04]
Stephen
Do you think there's things from a legislation perspective that can be done? You know, yeah.
- [94:07]
Jesse Inshospay
The most important is for the system, the support system around the moms to help make it really easy for them to eat eggs and sardines and vegetables and healthy fats. We have to also important moms because they're creating the next generation and they, they can't change the food industry. Things have to shift around them to make it easier. I think it's also about education, for example, Choline. You know, I said 90% of moms are not getting enough. And when people run surveys to see whether doctors are talking to moms about choline, only 6% of doctors are talking to moms about choline during pregnancy. So there's also just a big information gap somewhere. Things are broken in lots of different areas and maybe it's like, oh, moms can't handle it. Or maybe it's just, just that doctors are focused on very short term emergency things to manage. Maybe they don't have time to talk about nutrition, I don't know. But there's a real gap and I'm hoping this book will fill it. I'm hoping like this is pie in the sky. Why don't we prescribe nine months that count forever to every parent that gets pregnant. This will be a very good nutrition guide for them. And very simple.
- [95:15]
Stephen
I have many people in my life that are currently pregnant, people that are very, very close. And it's funny because you hear the conversations they're having and it does kind of sometimes feel like horoscopes and guessing. No offense to people that love horoscopes, but it does feel a little bit sort of pie in the sky.
- [95:31]
Jesse Inshospay
What's your sign?
- [95:32]
Stephen
I know fucking like this.
- [95:34]
Jesse Inshospay
You don't know your sign?
- [95:34]
Stephen
He's a Virgo, I think.
- [95:35]
Jesse Inshospay
Okay, okay, okay.
- [95:36]
Stephen
People like, I knew he was a Virgo. I'm not really on Sagittarius, but it is, it's confusing. Cause there's so much information out there. So it's wonderful to have a manual like this that demystify an area where there's just so much information coming at you and there's so much conflicting information. And your book is so importantly based on scientific consensus and facts and studies versus just experience alone. And I think that's why it's so important. And whenever the time comes that me and my fiance are fortunate enough hopefully to have our own baby, we're both going to reread this book because it's hard to find books on this subject that are so succinct, that break it down stage by stage. And you, as an author, you have a wonderful way of making things accessible. Even in this conversation. I don't need to ask you to define complicated words. And that's reflected in all the work that you do and everything that you write. So highly recommend. Great book to buy for someone as a gift if you've just found out that someone in your life is pregnant. But also a great book to buy for you and your partner if you're going through your own pregnancy journey or thinking about getting getting pregnant soon.
- [96:42]
Jesse Inshospay
It's also a good book to buy for your kids for all the grandparents to be out there. It's a good book to buy for your kids if they're going to have a baby soon.
- [96:50]
Stephen
Amen. Jesse, thank you.
- [96:52]
Jesse Inshospay
Thank you so much for having me back, Stephen. It's always a pleasure.
- [97:19]
Stephen
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