Are You a 'Photographer’s Photographer'? If You Are, AI is About to Eat Your Lunch

Summary

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Podcast Summary

The Difference Maker Revolution Podcast

Episode: Are You a 'Photographer’s Photographer'? If You Are, AI is About to Eat Your Lunch
Date: October 6, 2025

Episode Overview

In this lively and thought-provoking episode, the Difference Maker Revolution team – Ronan Ryle, Jonathan Ryle, Jeanine McLeod, and Steve Saporito – challenge a long-standing industry mindset: the belief that excelling technically and impressing other photographers is the core of photography success. The hosts argue that in today’s world, with every client holding a high-powered camera in their pocket and AI rapidly advancing, focusing solely on technical quality is a recipe for obsolescence. Instead, the true value of professional photography lies in capturing deep emotional connections and delivering lasting, meaningful experiences for clients. The hosts passionately discuss the pathway to becoming a "difference maker": a photographer focused on creating wellness and transformation, not just great images.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Taylor Swift/Travis Kelce Engagement Photos – A Perfect Example

• Janine introduces a viral story (01:02-03:34): After Travis Kelce proposed to Taylor Swift, their engagement photos sparked two very different reactions—non-photographers focused on the romantic love story and emotion, while “photographer’s photographers” immediately criticized the technical quality.
  • Quote (03:24 - Jeanine):
    “All my photographer friends were instantly criticizing the photographs. I can’t believe they didn’t hire a professional. … It was just nothing but criticizing the photos. … It’s like they gave us the perfect example for the podcast of being focused on the wrong thing.”

2. The Legacy of Technical Perfectionism in Photography

• The belief that photography is mostly about technical mastery is rooted in history, going back to when you needed to be a scientist to even take a photo (04:21-05:34).
• Now, since everyone has a powerful camera phone, this old mindset no longer ensures business success.
  • Quote (05:36 - Host A):
    “You can’t make it about photography anymore.”

3. What Clients Value: Emotion Over Perfection

• Real clients cherish the emotional content—moments, relationships, and the memories images evoke—not the technical perfection of the photograph (06:06-07:36).

  • Quote (06:55 - Steve):
    “Our clients tell us the same things. … They’ll pick the one that’s slightly out of focus, or the one that we almost deleted… because, somehow, emotionally, they’re connected to it.”

• Janine shares a deeply personal example: a snapshot of her late father and her son, taken on a couch, not professionally posed or lit, but overflowing with significance (08:24-09:52).

  • Quote (09:08 - Janine):
    “They weren’t looking at the camera, Steve. They were engaged, looking at each other. When I look at that photo, I still tear up because I remember my dad. … He still lives on in that photograph for me and for James when he gets older.”

4. The “Why” of Emotional Impact

• Many photographers have noticed that images that make clients cry are the ones that sell, but often aren’t aware of the why—it’s the emotional resonance, not technical quality, that creates value (11:02-13:25).
  • Quote (12:15 - Jonathan):
    “I think that they’re brainwashed into believing that the only thing that matters is the quality of the photo and their style. I think … when a client buys that out-of-focus photo, it’s by complete accident that the client has seen the emotional meaning in it.”

5. Is Technical Skill a Waste?

• The hosts clarify: technical skill is important, but it must become second nature so you can focus on emotional connection and client experience (16:57-18:29).
  • Quote (17:18 - Janine):
    “You have to be technically proficient where you don’t think about it. Because if you have to think about it, then you can’t focus on what matters.”

6. The Real Threat of AI: Why “Photographer’s Photographers” Should Worry

• The episode’s warning: AI is advancing rapidly, and the commoditization of technically perfect images will only accelerate (23:29-25:15).
  • Quote (24:00 - Host A):
    “If you rely on the quality of your photography alone to have a business, AI is going to wipe you out. … It’s already started. … But there is a solution.”

7. The Solution: Become a Difference Maker

• The only defense against obsolescence: focus on human connection and emotional transformation—what the team calls being a “difference maker” (25:15-29:31).

  • Quote (29:31 - Steve):
    “Every time we decide to click the shutter, we need to think about, you know, am I giving this person something that they value forever and am I doing it with intention? Because when we do it with intention, it completely changes…”

• Becoming a difference maker requires strong communication, listening, and an understanding of client relationships—skills rooted in empathy, not just technical prowess (19:05-21:29).

  • Discussion about NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) and how communication skills help uncover the deep value in photography for clients.

8. The Wellness Impact: Photography as Wellness, Not Just Art

• The hosts propose that a difference maker photographer is really in the wellness business, not merely delivering images but improving wellbeing through deep emotional connections (33:29-34:39).
  • Quote (33:29 - Host A):
    “We truly believe, when you’re a difference maker using photography to deliver your clients their forever, that we are really in the wellness space, the wellness sector… This is not just about photography. This is so much bigger…”

9. Practical Steps and a Challenge

• The team encourages listeners to join the Difference Maker Inner Circle for guidance on making this transition.
• They also consider testing their philosophy by doing a full difference maker photographic experience using only an iPhone (15:15-16:33, 34:39-35:15).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Janine, on emotional photos (09:08):
  “They weren’t looking at the camera, Steve… When I look at that photo, I still tear up because I remember my dad.”

• Steve, on intentionality (29:31):
  “Every time we decide to click the shutter, we need to think … am I giving this person something that they value forever and am I doing it with intention?”

• Jonathan, challenging the accidental nature of emotional images (12:15):
  “I think that they’re brainwashed into believing that the only thing that matters is the quality of the photo and their style…”

• Ronan, on AI’s threat (24:00):
  “If you rely on the quality of your photography alone … AI is going to wipe you out.”

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Important Timestamps

• 01:02 – Taylor Swift/Travis Kelce engagement reactions: emotions vs. technical focus
• 03:24 – Photographers’ criticism of non-professional engagement photos
• 06:06 – Emotional connection and client preferences in photos
• 09:08 – Personal story: The legacy and value of an imperfect but meaningful photo
• 13:25 – Why images that make clients cry are most valued
• 17:18 – Why technical skill is necessary but must be automatic
• 19:55 – NLP explained and its application in client communication
• 23:29 – The coming impact of AI on technical photography
• 29:31 – Intentionality in creating forever memories
• 33:29 – The shift to viewing photography as a wellness service

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Final Thoughts and Call to Action

The episode concludes with the hosts agreeing that the future of a sustainable and rewarding photography business is not in technical perfection or impressing other photographers, but in creating powerful, personal experiences and meanings for clients that AI and automation cannot replicate. They encourage photographers to become “difference makers” and offer a supportive community for those ready to make this transition.

[Join the Difference Maker Inner Circle at join differencemaker.com/innercircle to connect with the community and learn the path to becoming a difference maker.]

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Transcript

[A]

So the whole industry has grown up with this belief that you had to be a scientist to take a photograph. So therefore it's all about the photograph. But the world has changed. Everyone now has a phone in their pocket. Everyone a phone better than any camera that existed, maybe even just 10 years ago. So you can't make it about photography anymore. Hey. Hey. And welcome to the Difference Maker Revolution podcast. And we have Steve, we have Janine, we have Jonathan, and we've Ronan. And the last time we talked about this subject, we only had Jonathan and Roland. So we said we need to revisit it again as a totality. Just so you guys can see that at the Difference Maker Revolution, we are united behind what we believe.

[B]

Even though we thought you'd gone rogue at the time.

[C]

Yeah, we were so worried with the Bell dope that you had gone rogue and we hadn't.

[A]

We just put a different flavor on it. Everyone likes a different flavor of ice cream, right, Janine?

[C]

Yep, everybody does.

[A]

So we thought we would clear everything up for everybody. And we all have a different perspective on this because we're all coming from different angles, but we all believe the same thing and that's the important thing. So, Janine, there was a really big moment this week that seemed to consume so many photographer's photographers and I'm giving them a label because they deserve to have a label. A photographer's photographer about a famous couple who got engaged. You want to take us through that? For those who don't know, because I don't follow these people. Not because they're American, but they're just not. I'm too old probably. So just fit everybody in for the old people like me who might even know who you're talking about.

[B]

You're just too cool, just too cool.

[C]

For American football, but you're not too cool for Taylor Swift. She's a global sensation. You don't need to to follow American football to know. But anyways, so yes, so this week Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift were got engaged and it was this big fairy tale engagement. You know, Travis Kelsey went through all of this trouble to do all these flowers and this big garden scene to do a fairy tale proposal to Taylor Swift. It was adorable. It was romantic. It was like. It was all the things like little girls dream about. Right. And, and so the, when they, when they announced the engagement, of course the photos from the. The proposal started circuit. That's how they announced. Right. It was all. It circulated on their Instagram and then it got it picked up and yada yada. Yada. Instantly, it was so funny. Like, all my non photographer friends were like, oh my God, this is so cool. You know, they were talking about the emotions of it and how amazing it is that they were able to, you know, he went, they, he went from saying that he idolized Taylor Swift when he was younger to now he's engaged to her and like just the whole interesting story and how romantic it was and they fought against the odds and like you know, just all of the, the things that normal people talk about at the same time. All my photographer friends were instantly criticizing the photographs. I can't believe they didn't hire a professional. Look at the quality of these photos. They suck. They're horrible. The lighting is bad, the this, the that. I mean, it was just nothing but criticizing the photos. And I was like, oh my God, this is like. It's like they gave us the perfect example for the podcast of being focused on the wrong thing. Like, why?

[A]

Well, Janine, they're not focused on the wrong thing if you're a photographer's photographer.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But you're focused on the wrong thing if you think you're going to have a successful business.

[C]

There you go.

[A]

Which photography is part of that moving forward?

[D]

The only people who give a crap about the quality of photography are photographers or people who are interested in photography.

[C]

Right. It's true. And they're trying to impress other photographers. Right. And that's to me, like they miss out on. They're critiquing the quality of the photograph, not what matters, which was the emotion of the engagement of what happened between two people. A very intimate moment. You know, let's be honest, that's an intimate time when someone proposes to someone.

[B]

Else and all the little things planned.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But I think we have to defend the photographer's photographer first. Right. In fairness to them, because it's not their fault. It's not. It's actually what has evolved over time. Like since Neep, I can never pronounce his name, Neepsey in France took the first photograph in 1829. Right. You know, you had to be a scientist to take a photograph. Then, you know, you had to literally be a scientist to be able to take a photograph. So the industry has Grown up since 1829 all the way through. Right. For over a hundred and something years. Right. Two hundred and something years, when you think about it before, where you had to nearly be a scientist to be able to take a photograph. So the whole industry has grown up with this belief, Right. That you had to be a Scientist to take a photograph. So therefore it's all about the photograph. Yeah, but the world has changed. Everyone now has a phone in their pocket. Everyone. A phone better than any camera that existed. Maybe even just 10 years ago, five years ago.

[C]

Yeah, so.

[A]

So you can't, you can't make it about photography anymore.

[C]

You can't. Because like, and if you look at this, this case in particular, but in all cases, honestly, we're not creating photos for our clients to win awards.

[B]

You know who wouldn't want to be the one that won the award? Having.

[C]

Getting Taylor Swift's engagement. Right. But that's, that's not what that, that wasn't what they were created for. They weren't created to win an award. They were created for Travis and Taylor.

[D]

Right.

[C]

You know, it was, it was for them. It was authentically them. It was what they cared about. They just wanted something authentic in the moment. They didn't need an award winning photograph to feel what they were feeling at that time.

[B]

But our clients tell us the same things. I don't necessarily pick the ones that could win an award or that were technically perfect. They pick the ones that we least expect because we think that they want technically perfect, but they'll pick the one that's slightly out of focus or, you know, the one that we almost deleted and didn't show them. And it ends up being their favorite photo because somehow, emotionally, they're connected to it. Yeah, it's connected. It's connecting them to something that's important, something that matters to them.

[C]

When a client feels the emotion of that photo, like, you know how sometimes you can say, like, I can, I can smell or I can hear or I can feel that photo. That's what it is. Like I've taken photos where the baby's like, you know, like, ah, like this or doing something crazy and the mom's like, I can feel her in that moment. You can feel it. They're connected to it. Which would it ever be something you'd hang in a portfolio? Would it be something that you would win an award with? Absolutely not. But if the mom is connected to it, if she feels that photo and to her, it's everything that her child is, that's. That's the difference. It's not, it's about that. It's not about the perfection, Janine.

[B]

I think it goes beyond that. I think it's, it's bringing something to life and giving somebody something forever. So they're no longer looking at a photo. They're looking at that unique quality in that child. And I think when we. When the clients see past the photo, past the ink, past the paper, past all. All of the imperfections that, you know, would come up in a critique. And that person that they love is now alive, alive for them. And they're seeing those qualities. That's what they're falling in love with. That's what they value.

[C]

Juan. It's interesting you said that, Steve, because I just wrote this email yesterday. It's like you were in my brain. Grandparents Day is coming up this weekend. He was. He was in my brain. Um, Grandparents Day is coming up next weekend here in the US and so I've been putting together my emails to my clients about Grandparents Day. And the photo I picked to tell the story for the email was one of my dad and James. Not in the studio, not taken with all my professional gear. It is one of my dad leaning back on the couch. And James, it was when he was a baby, was sitting right here playing with my dad's beard. And they're both locked into each other and laughing. And my dad has since passed.

[B]

They weren't looking at the camera.

[C]

They weren't looking at the camera, Steve. They were engaged, looking at each other. When I. When I look at that photo, I. I still tear up because I remember my dad. I remember I can hear his laugh. He has passed away since. That photo is one of the ones that lives on. It makes my dad lives on for me. And that connection that I see him have with James, it's on a couch. It's not in the studio. It's not perfect lighting, even though I tried to add some vignetting to it to make it a little bit better, because I am still a photographer. But it's the connection that he had with James, and that's. And it makes him. Like you just said it. It made him live on. He still lives on in that photograph for me and for James when he gets older.

[A]

That's process, Janine.

[B]

It's not just that connection that your dad had with. With James. It's also James. James's connection in that moment, too, and how they've locked in and sharing. Sharing something special, and it brings it to life. And so what you're really saying is, is that there's more than one sense that is engaged or. Or brought to life. It's not just sight, you know, it brings in a feeling. You could hear your dad. And so it's. It's something that brings in multiple senses and makes you feel something and remember something and hold on to that Forever. And when we do that.

[D]

Bye.

[B]

What's the value of that photo? Yeah, it's priceless.

[C]

It's priceless.

[B]

We don't have to sell ourselves. We don't have to worry about, you know, whether our clients value us or not. It's not about whether the clients value us. It's about the value that we give to them to have that forever.

[A]

And you know what? I actually think the photographer's photographer actually gets this. Sorry. Actually knows this, but doesn't know the why. Because I don't know how many. Janine, you've been there. Steve, you've been there. Jonathan, I don't know if you've been there, but I don't know how many educators and photographers I have heard say when my client cries, they buy. Right? But they don't know why the client cries. That's the problem. They're not crying because they've fallen in love with the lighting you've used or that your photograph aligns the 12 elements that might win you an award or get you a merit. They're falling in love with that photo because of how it makes them feel. Just like you've described, Janine, about that photo with James and your dad, you know, So I think deep down every photographer knows this. What they don't know, they haven't yet realized the reason why their client cries.

[D]

I'm not sure they know it deep down at all. I'm going to be the devil's advocate here. I think that they're brainwashed into believing that the only thing that matters is the quality of the photo and their style. I think most of the time when a client buys that adafocus photo, it's by complete accident that the client has seen the emotional meaning in it.

[A]

Oh, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

They're not guided to find it.

[A]

But I think we're saying the same thing. Jonathan. What I'm saying is I believe that the photographer's photographer, right, understands that the work they co create with their client has to have an emotional reaction in their client for their client to see the value. So I think they. They understand that to some degree. But I agree with you in that that's not their approach. So when it happens, they know that the client has valued it more and has therefore seen more value and has therefore spent more money. Right? But they don't understand why it's not.

[B]

Necessarily a deliberate, conscious effort that they're making to create that for the client and to educate the client as to all the things that need to happen in order for you as the photographer, us as a photographer to be able to create something that is. Is meaningful. And we know before we take the photo or as we're taking the photo how this is going to impact that person and why we're clicking that shutter to capture something that we know is going to be meaningful. I think it happens accidentally and it happens by chance sometimes. There's a little bit of a mix of, you know, we kind of knew and hoped that something would happen, but because we haven't made that the primary reason for people wanting photography or the primary reason for people wanting to invest in themselves, not in us in themselves, then it's a chance thing and we're not doing it with any level of conscious awareness of making it happen in every single photo that we take.

[D]

So on that subject, just a hypothetical scenario, do you believe that if someone, a difference maker, delivered a full difference maker experience from the discovery calls right through and actually took the photos with an iPhone, would that client still buy what they loved?

[B]

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Because I see some difference makers using cameras that in some cases are, you know, 10 plus years old and in some cases the iPhone's probably almost going to do a better job and they've taken the focus away from, you know, having the latest and greatest technically, you know, advanced camera. The. Absolutely. I think that would still treasure. It's not even about buying. It's about treasure what they see and what they feel. Because it's about what they feel. And Janine said it, you know, she didn't. Of all the photos. And I'm sure she's got lots of photos of her dad, you know, taken with, you know, taken in all different environments. But she chose one that wasn't necessarily the most perfect photo perfectly in a studio. So, yes, I think I would. Not that I've tested it, Jono, so haven't tested it.

[C]

I'll say on a. On the photographer's photographer. I do know photographers that have tested and gotten a per. Tim Kelly got a perfect hundred entering a photo taken on an iPhone to an award. So I don't know if that's necessarily the path you want to go down, but it's not. And that's to say it's not the equipment that matters. Right. That's the, the photographer talking. Right. It's not the equipment that matters, it's the composition he saw.

[A]

But a lot of photographer photographers have spent some decades, right. Honing their craft, you know, to be able to be a really honing photographer craft, honing their technical Craft their technical craft. Exactly. Honing their technical craft. And I think it's important to point out that that's not wasted time. That's also an important part, to be able to take it quite further.

[C]

And because it has to be second nature, it has to be something you don't think about so that you can focus on the emotional transformation and the wellness that we've been discussing. Because you have to do. You have to be technically proficient where you don't think about it. Because if you have to think about it, then you can't focus on what matters.

[B]

It's gotta be like the operating system of your computer. It's gotta be that thing that is the foundation of what you're doing, but shouldn't be in people's faces and what you're focused on.

[C]

Yeah, well, I mean, like, even a good example is, like, when I got the last time I bought a new camera, which was three years ago, it took me a year before I would use it with a client. A year. Because I, like, I didn't feel comfortable with it. You know, I'm like, and if I have to think about my gear, I can't focus on my client. Right. So all of that, all of that technical, like, you're saying that that photographers have spent so long. Just think about the fact that now they're so poised to move to the next level of what we're talking about. Ronan, they should be invigorated, they should be excited that because they spent all that time perfecting their craft, this should be easy.

[D]

In theory, though, you could use the NLP strategies and tactics to teach a client to see the emotional value in the worst possible photo of all time. I mean, marketers and salespeople have told stories that a banana on the wall, because of the story they've told and attached that meaning, has sold for what, a hundred thousand or something? Like a banana with duct tape or something? But isn't it just using, like, NLP strategies to actually allow a client to see something in something else? That's what we're actually doing, is it?

[B]

I think, you know, regardless of, you know, what, what you're doing, I think it's about being human. And I think as far as NLP tactics go, it's more about replicating what humans. I think it's more about using the NLP psychology to understand how people communicate and to be able to communicate effectively and more importantly, listen. Because I think the one thing that most people struggle with is the. The art of listening and really understanding what people mean. Rather than what they say. And so, you know, when we're talking.

[C]

About nlp, can you say what NLP means, though, for, by the way? Because many people listening to the podcast might not have ever heard that.

[B]

So neuro Linguistic programming. So it is a study of, you know, human behavior and replicating human excellence. And, you know, you know, to me, it's a way, it's a pathway of being able to understand and perfect a way of communicating, being aware of your body language, being aware of what keywords people are using, how they're describing people, being aware of people's tonality. So because tonality can completely change, you know, the meaning of what people are saying. Because I think a lot of the times, because we've been so used to being so technical, we hear the words and think that that's what people mean. But the reality is, is that there's so much tied into 38% of all communication is, you know, tonality, 55% is physiology. And so it only leaves 7% from words. And I think people take what people say, you know, verbally, and that's why we miss so much in texts and emails and, you know, there's no context of all those other things. And so it's more about perfecting our communication to get the brief, to understand the client and for the client to begin to value and articulate what they value about who they are and what is unique about them.

[A]

And we see the opposite with many photographers. Photographers who don't have a conversation with their clients at all, don't believe they should even understand the client. But yet, say, I can tell the client's story. No, you can't. I'm sorry? No, you can't tell somebody's story if you haven't discovered something about that client understanding the relationship, whether that's with themselves or with others, understand what do they secretly want, Understand how this experience is going to capture that so that when it's displayed in their home, that every single day, that emotion is going to make them feel a certain way.

[C]

Well, you know, Ronan, even authors can't tell a character story without understanding the character. They write backstories. They spend years researching their characters. Like, what is it Tolkien did? Like 30 years of building his characters before he actually even wrote Lord of the Rings, you know, and it's. Authors have to do that. They write backstories, they understand the desires, the wants, the passions, the loves. They get into the character before they even write the story about the character. So how, as a photographer, you think that you can tell Someone's story without having a conversation to learn is interesting because even an author has to do that for a character. You know what I mean? For their characters.

[B]

Well, we've been, you know, sold on the fact that if we buy this light and this light stand and this prop that's telling someone's story because you can rock up and cope with any environment and that's what we've been sold and that's what we've been told is your ability to tell someone's story because you can deal with any environment and any person because of that thing that you've been convinced to buy.

[A]

And you know, I know it's easy for me to talk here because I'm not a photographer. I've never had a photography business, but I've seen beneath the bonnet of many, many, many photographers and their business. I think I've sat on, in, on so many educators programs I've sat in, I've sat in the board of directors of PPA for four years. So I've seen a lot within our industry. I've seen a lot with and with a different lens. I view it with a different lens. And here's what I believe from my experience, if you rely on the quality of your photography alone to have a business, AI is going to wipe you out. Now, I posted this recently a couple of weeks ago and there's some people who are photographers in the industry who are AI experts, right. In their field, right. Who disagreed with me. And everyone's entitled to their opinion, right? Because no one can foresee the future. However, I believe in everything I'm seeing and everything I'm seeing happening in understanding how many photographer, photographers sell, how many photographers photographer portray their value, that AI is going to wipe them out. It's just a matter of time. It's already started. It's already started. And whether that's going to take another month, three months, six months, nine months, 12 months, you're doomed. So unless you're very near retirement, you're doomed. But there is a solution. There is a solution.

[C]

What? You're not going to just give the doom and not give the solution. Ronan.

[A]

There is a solution. And it's interesting, Steve, because I actually think this is such an exciting time because I've talked about this for a number of years. But you've been talking about it for decades, right? You've been traveling, you've been traveling the world helping photographers to try to understand this and to implement it, right? But you know what? Now they've no choice, Steve.

[B]

No. Well, they do have a choice, get another job or, or, you know, or shift. And we see it all the time. Ronan, maybe because I've been doing this for a lot longer, I see the differences. When even. Julie, this week we ran the, one of the calls explaining the discovery calls and how to, and, you know, how to listen and how to structure the calls. That mindset shift of asking questions and listening to the client and letting them talk about what's important to them. She made four bookings in one day, and she attributed that to the fact that she's now listening and not trying to convince somebody about how great she is or how, how her style is, you know, great, or, you know, have you seen my Instagram? All she did was get curious about this person that is wanting a photographic experience and ask questions and letting them talk about what's important to them and what matters to them and what are the qualities that, you know, they see. And she's made more bookings in a day than, you know, than normally does in a week. You know, Janine, when you spoke about your dad, that photo that, you know, that was moving, what, you know, you said you could hear it. You could hear, you could hear something. What does that photograph say to you? If you think back at that photo and why you chose it in that relationship, what does that photograph actually say about who your dad is to you?

[C]

Well, my dad was everything to me and still is. You know, you're not making me cry in this podcast. I'm not letting it happen because it's too raw. Tomorrow's his first. It would have been, is his heavenly. It would have been his birthday. So it's a little raw, but it's, it is everything to me because I was, I, I am such a moments person. I've always been a moments person. And, and so having that photograph with him at James at that specific age and hearing him laugh, especially because he, that was right before his dementia started getting really bad. And so it's, it's everything to me because I, I, I, he was making eye contact. And this is, it's very specific, but, I mean, like, he was making eye contact and he was laughing with his grandson. Um, and he was happy and James was happy. And James still talks about his papa, even though my dad passed away when James was 4. You know, and James still talks about his papa. That's a strong connection.

[B]

But having that photo and having a representation of that connection keeps.

[C]

It, keeps it alive and it keeps the memory.

[B]

No, Keeps him alive.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, it keeps the memory.

[C]

No. The memory of the laugh. But, yeah, no, it does. It keeps him alive, the person alive.

[B]

Keeps the laughter alive, keeps the essence of who this person is to you alive. And if James didn't have these photos that represented that, if he didn't have you didn't have that, then that wouldn't be kept alive.

[C]

So you're saying it's the secret to immortality?

[B]

Well, it is in a way.

[C]

In a way.

[B]

Well, it keeps his voice alive, it keeps his laughter alive, because that's what that photograph represents for you. And that's what we're giving. We're giving people their forever. Every time we decide to click the shutter, we need to think about, you know, am I giving this person something that they value forever and am I doing it with intention? Because when we do it with intention completely changes. And so will it change the way you photograph? Absolutely it will. But what you will be giving is something that is so much more, so much more valuable and so much more. Gratifying, I suppose, for you to be able to do this. And so often we hear people come to us and say, you know, I've always thought there was something missing when it came to photography. And, you know, this is the missing piece of the puzzle that we're not taught, we're not made aware of. When we decide that we are going to take this on as a business or as a career or as somebody that gives back to the community, to humanity, that's what we're doing. And AI cannot wipe that away.

[D]

So.

[A]

So really we're saying that it should have always have been not about the photographer and the quality of the photography. It should always have been about the client. But we got away with it for a period of time. Right?

[B]

I think that the quality and it needs to be about, you know, understanding composition, understanding lighting, understanding. Know how to make the best of an environment and understanding how to flatter somebody through your lensmanship, through your, you know, the way, you know, you position yourself against the client. All of that, that's important, but it shouldn't be. At the forefront of, you know, what you're selling, that should be the operating system. What we're really selling to the. What we really should be providing. Not even selling, providing to humanity is a way for people to celebrate something about themselves and find something, help them discover something about themselves or their family that is unique and they can treasure forever. And that's what we're doing. And so the operating system of the computer sits there, but the benefits that it gives. When FaceTime first started, they weren't selling the chips and all the technical stuff that made FaceTime work or the programming or the coding. What they were showing everybody was the fact that you can still be connected with somebody. And even though you, you know, may have to work late nights, you can still connect with your family if you're traveling, you can still connect with the people that you love. It could give you access to people that maybe you don't get the opportunity to be, to be in the same room with. And it brings them into your room even though they live thousands of miles away or kilometers, depending upon which side of the pond you're on.

[A]

So what we're saying in a nutshell is, and we've had this debate internally for quite some time, and we said it in the last podcast, we truly believe when you're a difference maker, using photography to deliver your clients there forever, that we're really in the wellness space, we're really in the wellness sector, and that we're going to be talking to you about this over and over and over again. Because this is not just about photography. This is so much bigger than photography. But you as a photographer have the operating system, as Steve calls, so that you can concentrate 1 million percent in your client every time, discover what their forever is going to be, and then deliver that with them by co creating it with them. So, Jonathan, tell everybody how can we go on this journey of becoming a difference maker and transitioning from just the photographer's photographer into something that truly matters, Being a difference maker photographer, delivering wellness experiences.

[D]

All right, so we might even put the iPhone case study to a test. But outside of that, the best way to learn how to jump into the wellness industry, which is what it's all about, is to click the link below and go to join differencemaker.com inner circle. Join the inner circle, which is a community of driving difference makers who are on that journey to creating a business that matters. A business that's focused on people and that's focused on their clients. And inside the community, you'll find the training, the community, the coaching calls, and all the tools you'll need to be.

[B]

Successful and make a difference to your clients.

[A]

We'll see you on the inside.

[C]

Bye, everyone.

[B]

Bye, everyone.