Biggest "Aha Moments" from Effortless Sales

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Biggest 'Aha Moments' from Effortless Sales"

The Difference Maker Revolution Podcast
Date: December 8, 2025
Host/Panel: The Difference Maker Revolution – Steve Saporito (A), Jonathan Ryle (B), Ronan Ryle (C)
Episode Focus: The team recaps their recent "Effortless Sales" workshop in Glasgow, highlighting transformative insights into sales and client relationships for photographers. The conversation is candid, practical, and laced with the hosts’ signature humor and frankness.

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Episode Overview

In this high-energy episode, the hosts dive deep into the most powerful "aha moments" from the recent "Effortless Sales" live workshop. The discussion pivots around the dramatic shift photographers must make from creating work for their peers (or judges) to truly making an impact on their clients. The hosts share revelations about how clients emotionally connect to photographs, why traditional notions of photographic "variety" miss the mark, and how understanding client psychology is at the heart of sustainable, profitable sales for studios.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Clients Care About Meaning, Not Technicalities

[00:00–06:13]

• The real value in photography: Clients fall in love not with technical brilliance, but with what photographs represent to them. Emotion, connection, and story matter more than backdrops and awards.
• Teaching clients to see: Many people don't know "how to read" a photograph. It's the photographer's role to guide clients’ attention to subtle, meaningful details.
  • “People value photos that mean something to them and that say something to them. The problem is most... don't know how to see photography or... to read what's happening.” — Steve [00:00]
• Describing with emotion: When photographers describe images emotionally, clients see photos in more depth, often transforming an initial "no" into a favorite choice.
  • “Their instant reaction is, ‘oh, no.’ But then when you go in and explain all these things, it becomes their favorite photo.” — Steve [05:55]

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2. The Transformational Impact of Describing Photographs

[01:38–06:13]

• Breakthrough at the workshop: The session on descriptively and emotionally presenting photos to clients created genuine "lightbulb moments." Many realized that showing technical or artistic elements alone doesn't move clients.
• The importance of preparation: By doing the work ahead (calls, deep client understanding), you can point to elements in a photograph that the client values, not just what the artist/photographer values.
  • “When we draw our client's attention to those elements and interpret it... the clients look deeper and they see more and they value it.” — Steve [05:08]

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3. Unlearning "Photographing for Photographers"

[06:13–10:43]

• Industry vs. client expectations: The workshop revealed that many photographers were taught to shoot for competitions/judges, not for families or individuals likely to buy their work.
  • “We’ve so much to unlearn, to relearn, because we’ve been told that this is the way you photograph, which is for photographing for art, not photographing for a client.” — Ronan [09:21]
• Photographic "variety": The group highlighted a major disconnect: what photographers see as variety (outfits, props, locations), clients might see as repetition.
  • “I could pick what the limited availability was for a client, what they potentially could have bought... out of an entire shoot, there’s only three or four photos that the client could have bought.” — Steve [10:43]

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4. What "Variety" Really Means to Clients

[11:42–14:51]

• Real client value: Variety isn't about props or backdrops—it's about capturing the nuanced ways people express love, emotion, and connection within a scene.
• Asking deeper questions: Through pre-session discovery and conversation, photographers can identify what matters most to each client—and photograph to show these elements.
  • “This is what makes difference makers a difference maker in that we ask the questions that get people thinking about things they haven’t thought about before.” — Steve [12:49]

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5. Moving from Photographer’s Photographer to Client’s Photographer

[14:51–19:32]

• Defining "photographer’s photographer": Someone creating for industry peers, competitions, or artistic acclaim—not for their clients’ real needs or desires.
  • “Photographers that are photographing for photographers. And what photographers value. Not what clients value.” — Steve [15:10]
• The mental shift: Making your client the hero, not yourself or your art.
  • “You need to make your client the hero. While a photographer-photographer, they’re the hero. Their art is the hero. Rather than your client being the hero.” — Ronan [18:12]

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6. The Consequence (and Opportunity) of Ignoring the Shift

[19:32–22:02]

• The risk of irrelevance: Those who cling solely to industry-oriented photography risk being replaced; AI and shifting market tastes are accelerating this change.
  • “If you want to be a photographer, photographer, you’re out of business because AI is going to wipe you out anyway.” — Jonathan [20:59]
• A more gratifying path: The shift is not just a business necessity but also more emotionally rewarding—making a genuine difference in people’s lives.
  • “It sounds to you so much more gratifying to make a difference to your clients every single day. Because when you do, those clients will reward you for the value that they have got.” — Ronan [22:02]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “People value photos that mean something to them and that say something to them.” — Steve [00:00]
• “Their instant reaction is ‘oh, no.’ But then when you explain... it becomes their favorite photo.” — Steve [05:55]
• “We’ve so much to unlearn, to relearn, because we’ve been told this is the way you photograph.” — Ronan [09:21]
• “Sometimes, out of an entire shoot, there’s only three or four photos the client could have bought.” — Steve [10:43]
• “You need to make your client the hero. While a photographer-photographer... their art is the hero.” — Ronan [18:12]
• “If you want to be a photographer, photographer, you’re out of business because AI is going to wipe you out anyway.” — Jonathan [20:59]

Comic banter: Jono's theatrical, tongue-in-cheek "AI is going to wipe you out" speech [20:59] lightens the mood and underlines the urgency of adapting to client-focused practices.

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:00–06:13] – Emotional connection vs. technical details; describing photos for clients
• [06:13–10:43] – Workshop epiphanies: shooting for clients rather than peers
• [11:42–14:51] – True client value: capturing meaningful variety
• [14:51–19:32] – Defining and unlearning "photographer’s photographer" mindset
• [19:32–22:02] – The risks of ignoring this shift & the rewards of making a difference

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Takeaways for Photographers

• Shift your focus: Move from impressing peers and judges to making art that touches clients’ lives.
• Guide and educate your clients: Help them see the value and emotional depth in photos.
• Ask better questions: Invest in understanding what really matters to clients before a single shot is taken.
• Photograph for meaning, not for awards: True business growth and fulfillment come from transforming clients’ experience, not just creating technically perfect images.
• Stay adaptable: The market’s changing—those who adapt to client-centric practices will thrive, others risk being left behind.

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For more real-world tactics and mentorship, and to get involved with the Difference Maker Revolution community:
[Link to Inner Circle and further resources mentioned]

Transcript

[A]

People value the photos that mean something to them and that say something to them. The problem is most your average person doesn't know how to see photography or doesn't know how to read what's happening.

[B]

Hey, difference makers. Welcome back to the Difference Maker Revolution podcast. I was waiting for Steve to jump out of his trailer. Uh, but we are here again. We're here with Stefano in Melbourne and Ronan in Ireland. And.

I'm going to talk to these two buckos now because they're off gallivanting. Last week.

They were both.

[A]

We were working, Jono.

[B]

We were not gallivanting in Glasgow in Scotland. One of our trade partners, Loxy Color, doing a workshop. The workshop was Effortless Sales and there were some great difference makers there. There were, I believe, some amazing insights. And I want to know more because I missed Elon this week of gallivant.

[A]

You were Ms. Jono. Everybody was saying, where's Jono?

[B]

Yeah. So, you know, Janine and I were working hard while these two bookos were up to no good in Glasgow. So, anyway.

Talk to us. Effortless Sales, that was a workshop last week. There was a good few people who attended this workshop. So let's just start with something simple. So, Steve, what was your biggest takeaway from last week?

[A]

Biggest takeaway from last week? God, there were so many. Which is the biggest. I think that.

To start with.

Really understanding why people.

Want to buy photography. And I think what most people got blown away was the section on describing your photos. So I know everybody gets excited with the cropping and culling, but then when we got to that part where we got to describe the photos, I think something really clicked in that they began to see how our photographs become three dimensional to our clients when.

We describe them emotionally.

And have done the calls, done the work to understand what our clients are really looking for. So for me, I think.

That part of it, we got a lot of feedback and a lot of excitement on how they can see why somebody, when they're looking at their photos, how that person can absolutely fall in love with the photos that they're seeing and want to put them in a treasure box or want to display them in their home. And how you can get clients focused on what they love about a photograph, as opposed to judging every photograph and telling you all of the things that they see, that all their imperfections in reality is what happens when we helping people choose their favorites. So for me, I think, you know, a lot of people took a lot out of that section.

[B]

So do you think that clients fall in love with their photos or do they fall in love with what their photos represent?

[A]

It's definitely what their photos, what that photograph represents and what that photograph says to them. People buy and want to. People value photos that mean something to them and that say something to them. The problem is most your average person doesn't know how to see photography or doesn't know how to read what's happening. And as professionals, we need to look at all the different elements within a photograph that make up that photograph and draw their attention to those elements within a photograph to help them interpret what that means. And it's the subtle things. And I'm not talking about, you know, the elements that are going to win you awards. I'm talking about the elements that matter to a client.

[B]

So the lighting and the backdrop and.

[A]

The Right, no, the backdrop means nothing to the client because we see it all the time in that, you know, we've changed the backdrop with, you know, put the client in front of one backdrop and then a different backdrop. And the clients say, well, those, you know, those three are similar. Can I see them all together? And we've used completely different backdrops, completely different lighting, but they're looking at themselves, their expression. And just because the backdrop's different and they're wearing a different outfit, the client still sees that as a very similar photograph or the same photograph. But what they're looking at is, you know, if, you know, let's say you're taking and you're photographing a couple.

[C]

How.

[A]

Is that man embracing me? And what do, what do the, does, you know, the pressure in his fingertips say, how is he looking at me? And what does that say to me? And when we draw our client's attention to those elements and interpret it for them based on our conversations leading up to that, the clients look deeper and they see more and they value it. We've had clients, it's happened to me thousands of times where you'll put a photo up and their instant reaction is oh, no. But then when you go in and explain all these things, it becomes their favorite photo. And I think a lot of times their knee jerk reaction is no.

Because they're so used to judging themselves and never liking a photo of themselves. But it's only when you dive in and begin to.

Teach them how to see.

That they really, really fall in love with what you've created for them.

[B]

Sounds interesting. So Ronan, what was your biggest takeaway from last week?

[C]

My biggest takeaway? JONATHAN M. I agree with Steve as one of them, but another one for me was.

Seeing how what we're traditionally taught as a photographer. Photographer to photograph, as to how that needs to be different when we're truly delivering a client a transformational experience. So let me just elaborate a little bit on that. So what I mean by that is that.

Like, I'm not a photographer, right? Steve says he's not a photographer. He's an accountant. And he is an accountant, but he has in the past taken photographs that mean something to clients, right? And what was really evident to me was the people who were there because they all submitted some of their work, right? And when they saw that and they tried to describe the photographs, as Steve said was talking about, they were. They. They didn't know how to do that, didn't know how to describe the photograph. But then they realized very, very quickly that the photograph that they had taken will not do the job that they needed to do, but they were taught that way to photograph. And then for the first time, it's hard to believe this, but the first time I saw one of Steve's clients for when he had his studios, right? And how Steve photographed it and how he could talk to that, and it was just eye opening for everybody. So for me, that was my big aha moment where I actually visually saw, as well as the words I saw the photos that will have that impact to shoot, that will have that impact on the client. And it was just. I'd never seen anything like it. It was absolutely amazing.

[B]

Hang on a second. You're telling me that the one workshop I miss, Safarito decides to actually show a shoot that he photographed himself personally, you. I can't curse.

[A]

I was saving that one, Jono. Saving that one.

[B]

You knew I wasn't gonna be there, weren't you?

[A]

Well, it was a spontaneous thing. Like no workshops are ever the same because, you know, I rely, you know, on going with, you know, what the people in the audience need.

[C]

But the people, the member that, you know, the people who were in the audience, you could see that there was light bulbs going off, you know, that they were having aha. Moments, you know, that this now makes sense to me. This now makes sense. I get it now. You know, and when you think about it, like, they are visual people, right? Like most photographers. Visual people. And you don't have to be a doctor photographer to be a visual person. I'm a visual person too. But the point from Jonathan was you could see that all the dots were connecting for them. But there was also a little bit of shock.

Because not one, not two, not three, not four, not five. But the vast majority of the people who were there that I talked to, we're going, oh, we've so much to unlearn, to relearn, because we've been told that this is the way you photograph, which is for photographing for art, not photographing for a client. And it's so, it's so, so, so different.

[A]

Well, photographing for judges is completely different. And people spend a lot of time.

Going to print awards and looking at all the rules and going to print critiques to learn what the judges are looking for.

But don't spend enough time understanding our biggest critics, which are our clients, and understanding what they're looking for, what makes a great photo to them, and how do we photograph for that client. And almost every, like people were sharing the shoots that they were showing their clients. And almost everyone I could pick what the limited.

Availability was for a client, what they potentially could have bought. And in some cases, out of an entire shoot, there's only three or four photos that the client could have bought. Because although as a photographer, they thought they were giving the client variety, in a client's mind, there was only two or three clients, two or three photos that they could possibly buy because for a client, there wasn't the variety. I think when we went through this, and it's why I showed that that session. Jono, it's really easy to get variety for a client that ties together, that we can create multiple pieces of wall art. It's a lot less work, but it means a lot more to the client. And the client really does see that, that variety. I think that's what blew people away, is seeing what variety means to a client as opposed to what they were doing.

[B]

I think a lot of people that we know, we talk to who haven't been trained, the difference make a way think variety is like, you know, different outfit, different props, different backdrops.

You know, all of the. Yeah, props and superficial stuff.

[A]

Sometimes locations too does switch locations and setups, and it's very time consuming and exhausting for the client.

[B]

So why is variety important for us? Like, why do we need variety?

[A]

Well, I think a.

[C]

It gives us.

[A]

It gives the client more value, gives them more to buy. And but more importantly, we're photographing all of the elements that the clients are looking for when they're trying to describe something that means something to them. So when they're describing how somebody shows love, for instance, or the gift that that child has.

There are lots of different elements that until you ask somebody, well, how does that person love you? How does that person show you love? They haven't thought about it because nobody's ever asked them before. And I think this is what makes difference makers a difference maker in that we ask the questions that get people thinking about things that they haven't thought about before. And it becomes clearer in their mind that they are loved and they do have this, this gift. And then when you ask them to look deeper, it's in the way that they reach out to you sometimes. Or it's that look they give you without saying anything before they say something. And it's that, that all that detail that means a lot to a client. And this gives us the opportunity to not just photograph a scene for somebody, but all of those details that the clients are now exploring and value the most. And this is what brings the story together when we're able to photograph all of that. And it's really easy to do when you know what you're looking for. But until we've asked the questions, until we've understood.

How to photograph for that, then it's difficult to give clients something that's so valuable that they'll want to spend thousands of dollars on it. And we want.

People to do this willingly. We want people to want to spend the money because most people can have access to the money if they really value something enough. So it stops you having to push people to buy and push people to spend with you. We're going the opposite way and creating something that they would love so much that they want to buy.

[B]

And that's completely opposite from.

What you guys have been talking about. You've been talking about photographer, photographers. So what is a photographer's photographer just for people in the audience? Cause I'm sure they don't have a clue what we're talking about when we're saying photographer, photographer.

[A]

Well, for me it's that these defined as photographers that are photographing for photographers. And what photographers value. And so what does the industry value as a perfect photo? What's going to win an award, what's going to get them, what's going to allow them to take out a category with that photograph. And it's what our peers, what the industry has determined is.

Really important. All those elements that make an exceptional photograph.

Perfect enough for it to take out a category or for you to be, to claim yourself as an international award winning photographer. And so you're photographing for photographers.

But difference maker, you know, when we decide we're going into business and a client has commissioned us to photograph for them to photograph for their family.

Now we need to understand what are the elements that.

My client is looking for?

What are those things that they value?

What are the rules that I know I need to know, but may need to tweak or break in order to give our clients what they need.

From this and what do they value?

So, you know, you need to spend the time to understand who your client is, what they value, and this comes back to, you know, understanding your why, understanding your client's why, understanding, you know, your avatar, what their secret desire is, and, you know, when you can deliver that with precision. That's where we're seeing our members.

Having incredible, consistent results every week, every month.

And you no longer have to push people.

Into buying, and that's where the. When the referrals come in, because people really value what you've done. So it's the same as, you know, photographers. Photographers really taking all that time to understand what their peers want, what the judges are looking for.

For this competition, how you fit into, you know, each of the categories that you're entering.

You're pretty much doing what we need to do to understand our avatars, all the different avatars. Every category is a different type of avatar that you're trying to rent a. For the mind of a client. And what they value is very different to.

What a photographer and our peers are looking for, what the industry tells us is really important in a photograph.

That's what I think it is. But, Ronnie, you almost own this.

You almost own this.

[C]

Yeah. No, I agree with everything you said, Steve. The only thing I'd add on for me, it's become a cliche by now. I don't think people say it and don't understand it, which is you need to make your client the hero. You know, while a photographer. Photographer, they're the hero. Their art is the hero. Right. So rather than your client being the hero. So it's that mental switch. And it's okay. We're not saying it's not okay. That it's not. You shouldn't be entering awards. Of course you can enter awards once you understand that that's for you, it's not for your client. And yes, it's great when our peers might say, well done. I'm winning that award, amazing photograph. But that's not. That's for you. It's not for your client. Right. And sometimes most photographer photographers, they're. They believe that what they get back from the photography industry in the awards and the praise from fellow photographers about how great they are, they think then that their clients will see Them the same way and they don't, they're in fact complete opposites. So photographer, photographer is somebody who hasn't yet understood that realization.

[B]

Dove or you don't want to understand it and that's okay. I mean I'm a dove. I'm known as the big softie. But I'm going to like, I'm working on that and I'm going to be brash here. So for me like photographer, photographer is their dream day is, you know, they, they wake up and they, you know, 11, 12 o' clock they have a subject coming in to the studio and the subject is coming in and they're going to, you know, express their creativity and photograph this subject with their amazing style and have so much fun, you know, working on their different style and how they're going to photograph and the subject's going to be in awe of all of this and oh my God, you know this photographer, photographer is so good at posing me and lighting me and look how they photograph me, look how big their lens is. Oh my gosh. You know, and then this subject is going to look at the photos and be like oh my God, this art is so amazing. I want like 72 inches on every wall in my house. And I'm gonna pay you 10,000 because your art is so amazing. And the photographer is going to enter those into awards and his peers are going to be like oh my gosh, you're so amazing. What an artist. Your client spent 50 million euro on this incredible art but we're going to give you this award so you can talk about it. And the reality is no one gives that.

Sh1t except for other photographers. So if you want to be a photographer, photographer, you're out of business because AI is going to wipe you out anyway. That's me making enemies.

[C]

Oh my gosh, Steve. Where did he get that from?

[A]

Why did we, why did we let.

[B]

Him lose universal basic income Is your best friend in the future Photographer. Photographers. You heard it here first. Sorry, I'll behave. Now.

[C]

Get back in your box there.

[A]

Well that never came up at the workshop. Jono, let me just say that.

Probably why you waited by the good thing.

[B]

I wasn't there this time.

[A]

That's why we didn't invite you.

That's all I can say.

[C]

We get to tell we understand but you know.

It'S such an opportunity Steve, right? To just even be open minded enough just to reassess because as Jonathan said, you know, all of our strategic.

Looking at what's coming and what's happening and you know what photographer photographers are doing. You know, I agree with Jonathan, AI will eventually wipe you out. We don't know how long that's going to take. It could be next month, it's moving so quick. Or it could be five years. And I've talked to some photographer photographers and they've said to me, look, I'm three years away from retirement, I don't want to change now and that's fine. Right? But not many of us are three years away from retirement and we may not want to retire. Right? So all we ask you to be is just be open minded enough, just have a glimpse into what we're doing at the difference maker revolution and have a glimpse with an open mind, with a new lens that this is something that I should at least consider. Not because AI is going to wipe you out, but because it sounds to you so much more gratifying to make a difference to your clients every single day. Because when you do, those clients will reward you for the value that they have got when you are a difference maker photographer. So Jonathan, where can they have a little glimpse into the difference maker way?

[A]

Because the world is changing, Jono, where can we go?

[B]

Little glimpses. We don't do little glimpses here. So all you need to do is click the link below, book your call, we'll have a chat and we will help you realize that Inner circle is the best place for you to be to create a thriving, profitable photography business as a difference maker. So we'll see you inside the Inner circle.

[A]

Thanks everyone.