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- [00:00]
A
I fundamentally believe I want to go through life with my clients. And the idea of photographing someone once, like, no. I want to see their children grow, and I want to be a part of their lives, and I want to be the one that makes a difference for them over and over again.
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B
There's this myth out there that most clients are one and done. There's a myth out there that people who spend a lot will never want to ever step foot in your studio again. And it's a myth. It's actually the opposite. The people that spend the most seem to be the ones that want to come back again and again and again.
- [00:32]
C
Of the business leaders out there who built big businesses, they say it's not possible really to have a successful business or you're looking for new clients all the time. They call it continuity. Our continuity is clients for life. Hey, and welcome back to the Difference Maker Revolution podcast. And we're here to talk with Steve and Janine about one of our favorite topics, Chase. Clients for Life are clients for life.
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B
We should have all said that together.
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A
All right, like we planned it.
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C
Should we do it again? Are you ready? We're here to talk to you about
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A
Clients for Life.
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B
There we go.
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A
We would suck as an acting trio.
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B
It was like a cannon.
- [01:19]
C
Well, there's time delays across the world, right? Because we're across the world.
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A
That's it. That's it.
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C
Three separate continents know. So forgiven.
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B
I'm in tomorrowland.
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C
It's in the future.
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B
Yeah, I am in the future.
- [01:31]
C
So, Janine, I was actually on our last podcast. If you haven't heard our last podcast, you need to listen to our last podcast too. Right. I was going to bring in the Difference Maker Revolution Time Machine to that, but we did. We ran out of time, so I couldn't. So I might bring it into this one, depending whether we have time to do it or not. But yeah, so Steve is, you know, gets into the Difference Maker evolution time machine, and he's ahead. It's now tomorrow for us, Janine. It's today for Steve.
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A
It's today for Steve.
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B
It's bright and early in the morning. It's nearly 4am for me.
- [02:01]
A
Such a strange concept when you try and actually. When you actually try and explain it. Like, James asks about it sometimes and like trying to actually verbally explain it to a child. I'm like, yeah, I know it's confusing.
- [02:15]
C
Yes, indeed, it is confusing. But talk to me about Clients for Life. What are Clients for Life? Because I thought photographers sort of operate the done once they don't go in with. To burn them. But they think that, you know, the clients only ever want one portrait ever, or one family portrait ever. And one of the interesting things is, you know, most of the business leaders out there who've built big businesses, they say it's not possible really, to have a successful business, or you're looking for new clients all the time. You know, they. They call it continuity. Right. So our continuity is clients for life. So talk to us. What is a client for life?
- [02:54]
A
Who's going to go first, me or Steve?
- [02:57]
B
Well, you've already spoken, so it's you.
- [03:01]
A
We're going to rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors.
- [03:04]
B
We both. We both strongly believe in this, but you go first.
- [03:07]
A
All right, so this has been Ronan. Clients for Life has been my passion from the beginning. Uh, I have always. And I think it. It stems a lot from the why that we've uncovered. Right. Like, I. I fundamentally believe I want to go through life with my clients. And. And so, for me, the idea of photographing someone once. Ugh, like, no, I want. I'm very selfish. I want to see their children grow, and I want to be a part of their lives, and I want to be the one that makes a difference for them over and over again. Uh, and if you listen to the podcast before giving that child, throughout their entire childhood, that gift of creativity and confidence that the photographs create for them. So a client for life, and I guess in a simple definition, would be a client that comes to you over and over and over again for their entire life. Right? I mean, that's it. Uh, and so we call them clients for life. I know Steve does, too. And it's not as simple as just you photograph them and they come back. You know, you have to actually work on that relationship for them to come back to you. And it's interesting, like, I heard on a different podcast that was something about customer service and whatnot, and they were using a restaurant as an example, and this restaurant figured out that if they could get a patron to come back three times within a month, and they were theirs forever. Right? And they had worked that out. And so they actually designed an entire system around how to get somebody to come back three times within a month or whatever it was. And it was, you know, they gave them. So the waitress gave them something at the end of their first visit, and it was come back, and within two weeks, and you can get a free dessert. And then it was come back within, you know, this time, and you get it for this. And now they've had them three times and it creates that habit that that person comes to that restaurant over and over again. And so while we don't have free desserts to hand out, although at the studio we have a lot of candy and a lot of snacks. So that is not true because we do have children who come here specifically and they know where all the snacks are and they go hunt for them. But there's so much to creating a system in your studio for nurturing these relationships with our clients. So they don't just come once, they come over and over and over again until you're photographing them throughout their entire life.
- [05:15]
C
And yours, Dean, to talk about the restaurant example, like it doesn't matter what that restaurant does unless I as a patron of the restaurant the first time have an amazing experience, no matter what they do, unless I have that amazing experience, I'm not going to come back anyway. Right. So it's, it's not just about designing your system around encouraging them to come back. You've got to, they've got to have the value, so much value that they want to come back. Right?
- [05:43]
A
Absolutely. And I will say this, or if something doesn't go right the first time, because we've had clients for life and their first session was not the best because they came in that like their first experience with us with their child was two, you know, and it was, you know, a tornado running through the studio and, or a child cried or you know, or, or, or, or. And it's a matter of how you handle that as well. So it doesn't necessarily have to be a wowzers experience from the standpoint of the finished photograph is an award winning piece of artwork. It's how do you make your client feel in that first experience with you? And if everything doesn't go according to plan, how do you respond to that and how do you work with the client? And so that way they feel seen, loved and heard by you so that they do want to come back. So you're right, it is that, that first interaction with you. But I don't believe it has to be perfect as far as what photographers think that you have to develop. Like that first session with you, you have to have that award winning photograph and that's what's going to make them come back over and over and over again.
- [06:48]
C
Yeah, that won't do it, Janine.
- [06:52]
A
No.
- [06:54]
C
Which I was in last podcast, that award winning photograph is for you. It's not for your clients. It's not going to bring your client back. So Janine, Tell us a little bit about your strategy, right, that you want your clients and their children to grow up with you, right? So you tell us all the time that you have. You know, the kid comes and, hi, Ms. Janine. You know, and you've told us stories before of those kids where there was the possibility of another photographer. And they said, no, no, no, Ms. Janine's my photographer. Like, you've told us all those stories. So talk to us about that. Like, how do you. How do you go about creating science for life? What is it that you do that Steve, I know we'll talk to in a couple of moments about, you know, so many photographers don't think that way. And so many photographers think are afraid even to contact their clients again.
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B
Right.
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C
So talk to us about how you came to this strategy of clients for life.
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A
Well, it all stems back always with all of my ideas to Disney, right. And so they're my. What do you call it right in there, my brand inspiration. Always have. You know, I wanted to be an imagineer when I was young. So they've always been my. My brand inspiration. And that was Disney's philosophy. Walt Disney wanted people to love their experience so much that they came back over and over again and told their friends about it, right? And to him, that was success. And so for me, it was the same thing. And so right from the beginning, I mapped out every client touchpoint. And in the beginning, I didn't do it very well. It has been a work in progress for 20 years, and it is always still. And I'm always revisiting it every. Every year, every day. I'm always like, how can we improve this? And I think that that goes a long way because things change, people change, we change, we learn more. But it basically starts with mapping for me. And again, I'm a systems person because I am an engineer. I. And if it's not repeatable, if it's not systemized, it's not repeatable. And if it's not repeatable, it's not going to happen with every client that comes to the door.
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B
And then you're in chaos.
- [09:05]
A
And then you're in chaos. Yes. And I don't like chaos. I like order. I like order. So we mapped our client journey, essentially, and every client touch point. And my goal is always to how to make each one of those so impactful to the client that. That they can't help but feel connected to us and that we see them as a person and not just as someone who stepped in front of our camera. And it can be anything as, as grandiose as our welcome packets that are very much curated for each genre that we photograph to receive in the mail to something as simple as their design consultation. Sending a quick little text message off the cuff, you know, like, oh my gosh, you know, X, Y or Z. And they know it's hand done from you. It's not a formulaic text message that goes out to everybody after their. You know what I mean? And so it's a mixture of things that are very curated versus things that are very personalized. Listening to our clients, like, I know the snack thing is funny, but it is so fricking true. Um, our kids love coming and finding the snacks in the studio and, and they remember these things or, and I've had kids bring me coloring pages that they've made before their session because we have coloring pages here for them to do when their parents are busy, you know. And so it's little things like that, like anything that they do that is peripheral to the actual experience itself, creates those little moments, those little sticky floors, as we like to call them, the unexpected things that tie them to us and we become this like a family, you know, it ties us together. And so it, but it, it all starts with that client journey. You have to map it out. If you don't have those touch points written down and understand where they are and where you can have impact on them, then, then you're, you're, like Steve said, you're in chaos.
- [10:57]
C
So, Steve, we have a challenge that our Difference Maker Revolution members are doing right now, which is our Client for Life calls. Right. And as part of that, you've been listening to some of these calls. Yes, to support our members. So just talk to us a little bit about what you're hearing and what you're seeing.
- [11:17]
B
Well, I get the privilege of listening to some of the calls and I hear fear at first from our members in that I think a lot of them, because we tell them, you know, you need to do this and the clients are going to love, love hearing from you. There's this myth out there that most clients are one and done. There's a myth out there that people who spend a lot will never want to ever step foot in your studio again. And it's a myth because it's actually the opposite. The people that spend the most seem to be the ones that want to come back again and again and again. But what I'm hearing is somebody saying, hey, it's Steve. And they're sort of a bit nervous Steve calling from XYZ Studio, whatever that studio name is. And the clients immediately go, oh, my God, Steve, how awesome is it to hear from you? And they light up whenever. When we challenge our members to call their client for life, the immediate reaction was, well, what am I going to say? And the reality was the minute they said, hi, it's Steve calling from the name of the studio. The client's like, oh, my God. And they're just, they just gush. There was no need to come up with anything because the clients just start talking. And, you know, you can start by saying, you know, I was thinking of you, you know, what's been happening since we last saw you? And the clients just start talking about their children. What's been happening? Every call I've listened to so far, every single one of those clients said, you know, we often catch ourselves, and I see it in my husband, I see it in me. We catch ourselves looking at our portraits and just remembering what an incredible day we had with you. And they verbally say this. And it just reminds us of everything we want for our children. And then they start talking about all of the reasons why, you know, we really should come back. Because, you know, my son's coming back, you know, he's 18 now and he went and he's done up an apprenticeship and he's coming back in next month. And we've been thinking we should have a photo done. But I normally count five to six different between five. The last one had 12 different reasons why she believed she could, she should come back for another experience. And it's so exciting to hear the excitement in the voice. But it starts with what Janine was talking about. It starts with that intention of wanting to build a long term relationship with your clients and having the systems, even more importantly having the mindset. And that's why I love what we do at Difference Maker in that we teach the mindset, not just this is the script. Because unless you understand the mindset, the mindset behind each part of what you're doing, then you can never deliver it with intention and purpose. And so it's really exciting to see that a lot of this stuff that we're told is just a myth. Clients are excited to hear from us. Clients want to hear from us. We even had one member last night say that she's too scared to call them. And so she sent out a text asking if they would want to hear from her. And how many did she say? Responded? Yes.
- [14:30]
A
Like it was a lot.
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B
Yeah, she's got a lot of calls to make because she just didn't believe that people would want to hear from them. And so it's so exciting to see that they've done, you know, an amazing job in their experience. And the other thing, you know, that you said, Janine, which you said it quickly and I really want to point it out, is that we're not just, and I see this in some of the studios sometimes that I visit, they're photographing a person, but that person is an object to them. It's an object to light and pose and stick in front of a background. And when you are photographing somebody's soul and somebody's purpose and somebody's message, that's a whole other level of service. That's a whole other level of meaning to that family. That's what gets them back. That's what gets the referrals. And I know that, you know, my accounting training says, you know, you do need that repetition. You know, the three ways to grow a business are, you know, get more clients, which is tough, looking for new clients, getting leads, educating those leads. It's expensive and it's tough. And the second way is getting your clients to use you more often. This is you've already done the work. If you're calling them and you know what to say and you have that intention for them, they're already giving you all of the reasons and they're convincing themselves of why they need to come back. And so when you combine the experience and that intention with allowing a, you know, putting yourself out there and calling them, we're seeing lots of bookings coming in that are easy wins. And you've got to imagine like all those great clients that you've had, they've already spent and know you, they're educated as to what this experience is really all about. That's the low bearing fruit on the tree. And that's why we have our call sheets and we ask our members to fill out their course sheets because there's a column there to remind them that they need to dedicate part of their day to their VIP clients, to their forever clients. And it's great to see that those easy wins, because sometimes we need an easy win. It's hard work calling leads and booking one in whatever your conversion rate is. But the conversion rates with your client for life calls is way higher because they already know you. They're more likely to pick up the phone. If they don't pick up the phone, they get back to you and they're excited to hear from you. And from there it's easy. What was the question again, Rayna? Did I answer it?
- [17:05]
A
Forget Ronan's question. It's okay. I don't even remember what it was anymore. I just want to add into that, Steve, like, I think that some of the. Some of the undertones of what I've been able to pick up from clients when I talk to them is nobody cares about businesses, don't care about people in general. And there's a lot of sentiment about that here. And, you know, companies don't care, and people don't care. You know, we're getting into a more colder and colder society, I think, with AI and it's. Everything is formulaic and everything is. Nothing is personal. Right. And so when I've reached out and I make these phone calls and I talk to my existing clients, that Joy, it's interesting. I mean, obviously, I know it's because they love me and I've done such an amazing job with them. I'm just kidding. But it's because, like, wow, like, Janine actually picked up the phone and called. It wasn't a text. It wasn't an email. It wasn't something easy and cold and passive. It was an act of love that she wanted to talk to me. Someone, listen, wants to see me. Someone wants to hear about my day. You know, a lot of times, people's own spouses don't want to hear about their day. You know, and so it's. It's an incredible. Again, it's another gift that we can give our existing clients to call and say, hey, tell me about what's going on. Because no one does that. Nobody does that. Nobody cares. And so it's. I think it's an amazing gift to be able to pick up that phone and give our. Our wonderful clients that love that someone does care and they are seen, and you do care about who they are as a person.
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C
And we are seen with the feedback from our members who are doing their client for life calls that people are actually saying to them that, you've made my day.
- [18:46]
A
Yeah. And it especially works if you stalk them on social media and you have something that you can bring up.
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B
We're not going to call it stalking, Janine, if you take an interest in your clients and their life, we would never stalk anybody.
- [19:03]
A
Janine, take an interest in your clients. So. Yes, yes, yes. But it's funny to say, I actually will joke with my clients and tell them, like I have right now, I've been in the midst of making a bunch of phone calls for my clients that I had done high school senior portraits for four years ago, and now their kids are graduating college. And because we became friends on Facebook over the years, I see their posts from graduating from college, and I've been calling and reaching out, and I'll be like, I saw on Facebook that so. And so graduated, you know, Or I might. I do say I've been stalking you on Facebook. I knew she graduated, you know, and guess you have to have the right deliveries, dude. But.
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B
And the relationship.
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A
Janine and the relationship, you know, And. And they're always like, oh, my gosh, thank you so much for caring, you know, or, that's so exciting. And we talk about what they're doing and where they're going, and. And it is. And. And they do always mention, man when she comes home, like, maybe this Christmas when everybody's together again. We do need to. To do that family portrait. We haven't had one graduated high school, you know, so it's a. It's one of those life moments. But it doesn't start with that. I'm not calling. And I think that's where a lot of our members in the beginning were, thought that this was like a sales call, and they were getting all flustered, and I wasn't picking up the phone saying, hey, I saw your child graduated from college. Let's bring it in for a family portrait, you know, or even worse, hey,
- [20:22]
B
I've got an appointment tomorrow. I had a cancellation.
- [20:26]
A
Right, right. Yeah. When you finished with that party, why don't you come on in? That's not what these calls are. It's. And I. You know that what you said, Steve, is a great analogy. They're not objects. We're not viewing them as. As an object to book. They're a person. They're someone we care about, and we're calling. And does it lead to a booking? Yes, more often than not, it does. But that isn't the purpose of the call.
- [20:51]
B
People are craving human contact. I can't remember, I think you both said it, that people are craving it. And the more AI takes over, the more we systematize, the more we know we're getting automated texts back, the more we crave real human connection. On the weekend, I was at JB hi Fi, which is a electronics store with Rob, and I walked past. There was the shaver section, and they have those ones to do your head. You know, there's like, all these, like, cutters. Like, it's a. It's like a claw that goes over your head. I said to Rob, ah, it's like a hundred bucks. Why don't we get one of those? We could do it ourselves. And you know, it's the equivalent of a haircut. And he's like, would you really, really give up going to the barber, spending half an hour just talking? And yeah, you could do it yourself. But there's no way ever. I'm not going to pay to go to the barber and have my hair cut because I would miss that interaction. And it's that time when somebody's doing something for you that and I think people really crave experiences. And he said it. I would miss the experience of having my hair cut. Like what could be better than me doing a 4 year old? But no, he wants to go to the barber. But you know what? We pay to have a haircut. Buying this machine that we could do it ourselves. It's done in, you know, one haircut each.
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C
It's funny you should say bring up the barbers, Steve, because I remember seeing a number of years ago that the happiest profession in the world are hairdressers.
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B
Really?
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C
Yeah.
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B
They gotta be photo. No, it's photographers. It's. It's photographers. Don't be ridiculous. That's a myth.
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C
It should be photographers. It may be difference maker photographers, but yeah, so hairdressers and, and they were saying it was because of. So because we're social animals, right? Humans. And, and as it was that interaction and that having a conversation and with somebody and yeah, apparently they're the happiest profession in the world.
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B
That's why I used to hire hairdressers. They were fantastic, fantastic workers in my studio because for exactly that, they're used to talking to people. They're used to finding out about people's lives. They're used to being busy all day and they love to be trained. So they couldn't be the happiest people in the world because I was able to bring them over to the photography side and make them even happier working in the photographic industry.
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A
There you go. That's hilarious.
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B
Because I get to have deeper conversations because we get to spend more time with them, turn them into difference maker hairdressers and they still got to style hair.
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C
There we go.
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A
There we go. We can go take over that industry too.
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B
Why not?
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A
Why not?
- [23:51]
B
So it's been incredible watching our members calling their VIP clients and their clients for life and really making them a client for life and making people's day the stories we're hearing. I was listening to a call the other day and it was this lady who had Ms. And she just wanted to celebrate the love that she had for her husband. And I think the best call was when they called the husband and how much love he had for his wife. I think Ms. Brought them closer together or they believe it did and what those photos have meant to them. The story two years on is just incredible. So I think it calling your clients again really does validate what you've done. And even six years on, I heard a call from one of our members six years on and it just really was awesome to hear that even after six years, the moment she didn't even get to say her name, the client knew her voice and we think that they forget about us, right? But she knew her voice. She was so excited and so grateful that she'd picked up the phone to say hello. If we're true to what we say we are for our clients, we should be calling them to just to say hi and see what's happening in their life.
- [25:07]
C
The decision is easy. If you're tired of trying to find new clients all the time, all you have to do is click on the link below. Join the difference maker revolution so you too can create clients for life.
- [25:23]
B
Be part of the challenge. Click the link. Be part of the challenge. Make your clients day.
- [25:27]
C
We'll see you all on the inside.
- [25:30]
A
See you guys on the inside.
- [25:31]
B
Bye, everyone.