Podcast Summary: "Most Photographers Aren't Failing Because They're Not Talented... They're Just Operating Blind"
Podcast: The Difference Maker Revolution Podcast
Air Date: February 9, 2026
Hosts/Panel: Janine McLeod, Steve Saporito, Ronan Ryle, Jonathan Ryle
Overview
This episode centers on a critical issue for professional photographers: Most failures in photography businesses stem not from a lack of talent but from “operating blind”—failing to understand and manage the financial and operational numbers that drive business success. Pulling from real-world experience and hard-learned lessons, the panel explains why knowing your business numbers is essential, dispels celebrated industry myths about “big sales,” and provides practical guidance for taking control of your business finances, all delivered in the group’s high-energy, mentoring style.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The "Operating Blind" Epidemic in Photography
- Many talented photographers fail not for lack of skill, but because they “operate blind” and lack awareness of the numbers necessary for sustainable business decisions.
- Ronan Ryle (00:00, 01:55):
"Unless you know your numbers, you don't have a business. You have an expensive hobby dressed up as a business."
- Operating without numbers is compared to rowing a boat in fog: lots of effort but going nowhere.
- Ronan Ryle (00:00, 01:55):
2. Hobbyist Mindset vs. Business Mindset
- Most enter photography as a passion or hobby, not as rigorously planned businesses.
- Jonathan Ryle (03:58):
"Anytime I look at an opportunity, the first thing I do once I have an idea is I run the numbers."
- Economics and math—however unenjoyable for some—are non-negotiable realities for a profitable business.
- “Nothing beats economics and math. We have to be aware of those things.” (05:07)
3. Learning to Love Numbers—Real Experiences
- Janine McLeod (06:19): Shared her journey from “just happy if I sold more” to strictly tracking profit using Mike Michalowicz’s Profit First system.
- The turning point: realizing that high sales do not always equate to higher profit.
- Now, Janine maintains an obsessive focus on cash flow and profit margins.
- Ronan Ryle (08:25): Stresses that P&L (Profit and Loss) statements are not enough. Cash flow and allocation (as in Profit First) provide true control:
"Profit first makes common sense. It puts you in control of your business, knowing what direction your business is going based on how the cash is flowing."
4. Cash Reserves: Your Lifeline
- Janine recounts building reserves to weather downturns (like COVID), emphasizing decisions should not be made from a place of desperation.
"Now I have a year. And if I see that number float below a year, I start to get twitchy...You should never get [to desperation]." (09:40)
- Steve Saporito links desperate business owners' bad decisions to energy perceived by clients—desperation is sensed and undermines bookings.
5. The Value of Interpreting Numbers Yourself
- Business owners should interpret their own numbers (even if production/bookkeeping is outsourced).
- Ronan Ryle (12:47):
"You can outsource the production of the numbers, but the interpretation of those numbers should always be down to the business [owner]."
- Ronan Ryle (12:47):
- Rely on mentors, accountability partners, or community to help interpret trends and rapid shifts—don’t operate in isolation.
- Janine McLeod (13:26):
"It's hard to see the forest from the trees sometimes…But if you're not on top of it...they ignore it until...it's a crisis."
- Janine McLeod (13:26):
6. Monitoring Key Numbers Frequently
- Track important numbers daily or weekly, not monthly or quarterly.
- Steve Saporito (11:50):
"Running even my day to day booking conversion sheet...when your conversions drop, there's something happening and that has an effect usually two to three weeks after today."
- Steve Saporito (11:50):
- Act on leading indicators (like conversion rates), not just bottom-line results.
7. Ego, Big Sales, and the “Expensive Hobby” Trap
- Industry culture celebrates large one-off sales, but this can be misleading.
- Ronan Ryle (21:10):
"You can only be in this group if you have a sale over a certain amount...That is absolutely doing a total disservice to our industry."
- Sustainable profit comes from consistent, well-priced volume, not the rare big order.
- Ronan Ryle (21:10):
- Cash is king—don’t count sales until paid and avoid over-promising or under-pricing on big tickets.
8. Paying Yourself & Building for the Future
- Many owners don’t pay themselves regularly, treating leftover money as income.
- Ronan Ryle (23:05):
"You won't be sustainable if you operate like that."
- Sharing a painful personal business story, Ronan emphasizes the lessons learned about cash reserves and future-proofing.
- Learning from failure is invaluable.
9. Profit First & Practical Tools
- Profit First is highlighted as an accessible method—“You don’t have to be an accountant.”
- Photographers should focus on what the business delivers to them—not on number of staff or gross sales, but actual profit, stability, and lifestyle fit.
Memorable Quotes & Moments
- Ronan Ryle:
"Unless you know your numbers, you don't have a business. You have an expensive hobby dressed up as a business." (01:55) - Janine McLeod:
"I still ran for the longest time...The more I sell, the more I'll make...I was just happy if I sold more, I'd make more. And I ran like that for a long time until I met Mike Michalowicz, and totally turned on my head." (06:19) - Steve Saporito:
"I've always run business by numbers because it sends you the warnings that sometimes emotionally you're not ready to hear." (11:50) - Jonathan Ryle:
"It's not about being afraid of failure either, but it's about learning from it...real-life experiences...are more invaluable than any theory in any course or coaching you'll ever experience." (24:18) - Janine McLeod:
"Fun with numbers. You've gotta rephrase it, right? It's not scary, it's fun!" (28:49)
Practical Guidance: Steps to Avoid Operating Blind
- Know your core numbers: Real revenue, costs, margins, and required break-even points.
- Monitor weekly or daily: Don’t wait for monthly or quarterly statements; use daily sheets for conversions and sales.
- Profit First: Use a cash-based, bucketed approach to always know where your business stands.
- Build reserves: Aim for several months of expenses in the bank ("the rainy day fund").
- Pay yourself first: Don’t treat leftovers as income; allocate a proper owner’s pay.
- Seek accountability and mentoring: Don’t be afraid to "phone a friend" or leverage communities and mentors.
- Celebrate consistency, not ego sales: Sustainable business beats big-ticket outliers.
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:00 – 03:58: The “operating blind” analogy and essential role of knowing numbers
- 06:19 – 09:40: Panelists share personal experiences and transformations around financial management
- 09:40 – 10:44: The impact of cash reserves and making business decisions out of strength, not panic
- 11:48 – 13:26: Tracking conversions, micro-adjustments, and the dangers of outsourcing interpretation
- 15:24 – 17:52: Mindset, taking regular interest, and sticky examples (scales analogy & "phantom sales")
- 19:32 – 21:09: Best practice advice; Clarifying “real revenue,” “gross profit,” and the difference between sales and profit
- 21:10 – 23:05: Ego-based business myths, sustainable sales, and “the expensive hobby” warning
- 23:05 – 25:03: Real lessons from business downturns, paying yourself, and learning from failure
- 28:49 – 29:54: Ending on an upbeat note—changing your mindset to have “fun with numbers” and offering community support
Conclusion
With passion, candor, and decades of combined hands-on experience, the Difference Maker team puts forth a stirring case for running your photography business by the numbers—demystifying finances, promoting healthy business discipline, and encouraging community and mentorship as the keys to a sustainable, profitable creative business.
For actionable support and mentoring, the hosts advise listeners to join their inner circle, leverage tools like the “AI coach,” and embrace numbers as a fun, empowering part of business mastery.