Podcast Summary: The Difference Maker Revolution Podcast

Episode: The 'Chicken' or the 'Egg' in your 'AI Marketing'
Date: December 1, 2025
Hosts & Guests:

• Ronan Ryle
• Jonathan Ryle
• Steve Saporito
• Jeanine McLeod is referenced but not present
  Theme: How the rise of AI is reshaping marketing for photographers, transitioning from search-based to recommendation-based approaches, and the foundational importance of clarity in brand purpose.

Episode Overview

In this high-energy episode, hosts Ronan, Jonathan, and Steve dive into a lively and practical discussion about the tectonic shifts occurring in marketing for photographers, prompted by advancements in AI—especially ChatGPT and the newly-released OpenAI Atlas browser. Using light-hearted banter about chickens and eggs as a metaphor, the team explores the crucial question: In this changing landscape, what should come first—adopting new AI marketing tools or achieving clarity about your business’s core purpose and audience?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Marketing Evolves, People Don’t—But AI Changes the Game

• Marketing strategies fundamentally rely on unchanging human nature, but the tools change rapidly.
  • Quote, Ronan – [00:00]: “Marketing never really changes because people rarely change, but the tools they use change.”
• The latest disruptive tool: AI (specifically search and recommendation AI like ChatGPT and Atlas).

2. Chicken vs. Egg: Purpose vs. Tactics

• Amusing banter about real chickens and eggs morphs into a business metaphor: Should photographers focus first on adapting to AI marketing, or on clarifying their brand purpose and ideal client?
  • Quote, Ronan – [19:09]: “The chicken and egg analogy for me was, do I start marketing on AI first? Or do I need to know my purpose? … The answer … is you absolutely do [need clarity first].”

3. The Shift: From Search Marketing to Recommendation Marketing

• Traditional Search Marketing:

  • Clients become aware of a need (e.g. wedding photographer), search on Google, browse SEO-optimized results, make a shortlist, reach out.
  • Timestamps – [06:44] to [08:56]: Step-by-step example of current Google search process for wedding photographers.

• AI-driven Recommendation Marketing:

  • Tools like ChatGPT and Atlas change the paradigm: Users don’t just get lists of links but receive curated, personalized recommendations with summary pros/cons, contact info, and even suggested follow-up questions.
  • Quote, Jonathan – [14:16]: “If I type [a photographer request] in, ChatGPT is literally going to create a shortlist… list pros and cons, phone number, email, website… recommendations of questions I should even ask…”

4. Atlas: The AI Browser That's Accelerating Change

• OpenAI Atlas browser integrates ChatGPT directly, producing ‘agent-mode’ recommendations and performing tasks autonomously.
  • Demo Example, Jonathan – [16:29]: Atlas can open Facebook Messenger, craft, and send replies hands-free.
  • Atlas currently exclusive to Mac M1/M2/M3 and up but expected to go mainstream fast.

5. The Critical Shift: Purpose Before Platforms

• With AI, recommendation quality depends on how well your web/social content communicates:
  • Who you serve
  • Why you serve them
  • What transformation or value you offer
• AI’s “conversational” interface means nuanced, deep communication about your business is more important than old-school technical SEO.
  • Quote, Steve – [21:35]: “You need to understand what the clients really value about what they're looking for… if you can speak to that… our messaging becomes more targeted, more attractive.”

6. Action Steps for Photographers (and Local Businesses)

• Get Clear on Your Purpose: Define your why, who you serve, and the transformation you provide.
• Refine Messaging: Make sure all platform content conveys this clearly—in human, conversational language AI can understand.
• First-Mover Advantage: The earlier you adapt your online presence for AI, the more likely you'll earn top recommendations.
  • Quote, Ronan – [23:53]: “Once Atlas becomes mass… the AIs see us… recommend us. Those who are in first… who understand this…will be recognized.”
• AI “recommendation marketing” will make old SEO tricks obsolete—no more technical loopholes.
  • Quote, Ronan – [24:53]: “This is not about technical tactics… This is that the AI understands who you serve, how you serve them, what's their transformation… so that they can recommend you. That's the big switch.”

7. Implications Beyond Photography

• Every business—not just photographers—must rethink their marketing strategy to focus on client clarity and value transformation, not just artistry or accolades.
  • Quote, Steve – [26:12]: “It's not just photographers. Any business needs to be really clear… [and] to spend time understanding what we are passionate about and what those people are looking for.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the pace of AI advancement:
  • Ronan – [03:33]: “In a year's time, what is going to happen will make you feel that the AI you use today was like a rotary phone is to us today.”
• On the loss of SEO effectiveness:
  • Jonathan – [27:11]: “SEO and Google search marketing are dying and AI recommendation marketing is here. This is the future. Wow.”
• Practical realization:
  • Steve – [23:28]: “I personally have stopped Googling for things… so we have to, to start moving on to this.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00] – [02:45]: Light-hearted “chicken or egg” banter and introducing the metaphor
• [03:18] – [05:28]: Rapid AI development; comparison to past tech shifts (phones)
• [06:44] – [09:01]: Traditional search marketing explained
• [10:51]: Steve’s experience with AI recommendations (ChatGPT for home renovations)
• [13:46]: Introduction to Atlas browser and agent-mode capabilities
• [16:19] – [17:59]: Jonathan's real-world Atlas demo (Facebook Messenger automation)
• [19:09] – [20:10]: Chicken-egg analogy applied to business strategy
• [21:35] – [22:49]: Importance of clarity about client values/experience
• [23:28] – [24:53]: Steve stops using Google; preparation for Atlas mass adoption
• [24:53] – [26:51]: Why SEO tactics are out, and clarity/audience focus is in
• [27:11]: The big conclusion—where the industry is heading

Final Takeaways

• Photographers—and all small businesses—must get ahead of the next marketing revolution, which is already underway.
• Success in an AI-first world depends less on technical tricks, and more on deeply understanding and clearly communicating your “why,” “who,” and value proposition.
• First-mover advantage is massive: Early clarity and messaging precision will land your business in top recommended slots for AI-driven search and discovery.