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- [00:00]
A
There's just no comparison. And you've got to give your clients a cinematic experience. You've got to give them the best experience you possibly can. So, you know, if you're doing an in person sale or even if you're doing it on zoom, you just can't beat what Pro select has to offer. And it's, it's where the client gets, you know, that feedback from who they are and what you've created for them. You've got to make it incredible.
- [00:27]
B
Hey, hey, hey. And welcome to the Difference Maker Revolution podcast. And there's four of us on today and we've really exciting topic. You've probably seen it at the headline, why are so many photographers tight asses?
- [00:40]
A
Say it properly. Go on, Janine, say it with an American accent.
- [00:44]
C
Tight ass.
- [00:45]
A
Tight ass.
- [00:48]
D
Over here they'd be tight arses.
- [00:53]
B
Yeah. And you know, it's something we see all the time and we're sure if you're a tight ass, you've probably done profit first. You've probably done profit first and you're just trying to save money. Right? However, there's another, it's your fault, it's all my fault. But there is another side to this. There is another side to this that's a serious side in that nowhere in profit first do we talk about you don't have to invest in your business. Right. And there's certain tools that you need in your business to be able to have a business. And I think it's important that we talk to some of those. Right. Because it's a mindset, Steve. Right?
- [01:35]
A
It's a block more even so than a mindset. So you want me to go. I was just making a list of all the different, I was starting to make a list of all the different things that I see where, where that would fit that, that category. I think this all blew up because we've seen some, some interaction on Facebook about Pro select now not supporting a program that was written decades ago, many.
- [02:10]
B
Moons ago, many moons ago.
- [02:14]
A
And people don't, you know, don't, don't want to pay for a subscription to, to renew it. But the reality is, is that it's an incredible piece of software that helps people make money. It's not where you need to be skimping or. I've seen a lot of. We know when I'm doing sales workshops or visiting studios, they're using lightroom to sell or try to sell on. And the reality is, is that it's costing so much money now not to have a proper Sales tool. And if we're in business and we've turned pro because now we're earning a living, meant to be earning a living, we need to have the tools that we need to be able to, you know, to sell. And Pro select just is one of those tools that is the money maker in the business and gives, it's the one thing that gives the client the most experience, the most interactive experience that they have because when they get to see their photos, when they get to see their children up on a screen, that's, that's where they get the most interaction and you've got to make that amazing. So you know, it all, it all started with that, with that I think.
- [03:35]
B
Today and Steve, but there's an important fact like in, in what you've designed as a design consultation and the cinematic experience. And I've seen nothing that even comes close to or anywhere else in our industry like Pro select is an important tool to make that happen, right?
- [03:54]
A
It is, it totally is. And through the thread somebody, a few people made some suggestions for people to have a look at different software which is cheaper. Oh my God, they are terrible. Like I went in and had a quick look and like you can't even compare and I haven't, obviously I haven't looked at everything but the ones that people were sharing that are meant to be an option, there's just no comparison. And you've got to give your clients a cinematic experience, you've got to give them the best experience you possibly can. So you know, if you're doing an in person sale or even if you're doing it on Zoom, you just can't beat what Pro select has to offer. And it's, it's where the client gets, you know, that feedback from, you know, who they, who they are and what you've created for them. You've got to make it incredible.
- [04:55]
D
I think it goes for any business and any tool though because like we had this experience, right. I think sometimes when you try and do things on the cheap or cheap, cheaply, right, you end up costing yourself more money in the long run. Right. So I remember when we started 3XM initially we had a laser machine that we got that was from China somewhere or something and it was the biggest hunk of junk I've ever seen in my life. Oh, goodness gracious me. And it actually ended up costing us more in the long term than if we had just paid for the proper piece of kit that we actually needed.
- [05:33]
B
Yeah, I couldn't agree more, Jonathan. And that's A great example of it.
- [05:37]
A
You know, we see it everywhere, not just in any of that. Like, you go into a studio and you say, why did you put this up? Like, why is that your display? And often the answer is, well, I ordered it by mistake and I had to pay for it. But it's killing sales. That wall is better off having nothing on it than putting up a sales killer that is killing your sales. The same thing.
- [06:11]
B
True.
- [06:12]
A
You know, I had a client who was paying for a salesperson, and the salesperson wasn't trained properly, didn't have a great attitude, but I'm paying for that person. It's like, but they must be going through something. You need to step into the sales room. And even though you're paying a salary, you need to step into the sales room. And it's actually cheaper to pay her and stay home than leave her in the sales room. Because right now, sales are double. She's made more money this month than she has in four months. So it's in all areas of the business from displays that we ordered by mistake. Sometimes displays arrive, and I've seen this happen lots of times. They got damaged by a courier and they weren't good enough to give to a client. Well, if they're not good enough to give to a client, how can you put that up on the wall and project to your clients that you're running a scratch and dent sale?
- [07:21]
B
Like, yeah, it's a mindset I can never understand. But, Janine, using this on both sides, right? Because across your career, you worked for Art Letter as the Florida representative or client support or whatever that title was. And now you're a studio owner. So, you know, you've. You've seen this on both sides. So what have you seen? What has been your experience?
- [07:48]
C
And I think I told you guys the story earlier. Like, I remember when I was a rep going into the studios throughout Florida, it was early 2000s, right? So there'd be samples up on the wall that were clearly from, like, the year I was born in the 70s. Like, you could just tell, you know, it had that red tint to it. It had, like, the dual exposures. It had the overlays. I mean, it was so obviously like 1976, it wasn't even funny. And I'm like, why is this on your wall? Oh, well, you know, clients love them. Like, clients loved it 30 years ago. Like, you're dating this display. Oh. And then you would get the call. Well, you know, the cost to replace a sample is so high. Like, the cost to not replace. It is so high. Are you kidding me? Like, people are walking in here laughing. And so it's. And I think oftentimes that's where it lies, Right? And I can tell you, I have faced this myself, right? So in our. In our design consultation room, we had a laptop that was working great until it didn't. And then all of a sudden, like, it would take an extra minute or five minutes or 10 minutes to load in a Pro select file, right? It had trouble pulling it across the network. So my initial thought was like, okay, everybody get your Pro select files in in the morning. Then we don't have to worry about it. Because I was trying to not have to buy a laptop that day, right? I'm like, let's see if we can, like, limp along with this laptop. We'll just put our systems in place.
- [09:07]
A
Well, but then five years left in it, Jenny, an extra five.
- [09:10]
C
You got another laptop. And it just takes one client, though, where the Pro select file wasn't prepped, they came in and then we're waiting. Like, what a bad first impression to a client. Have to wait 10 minutes to import their images. It was awful. And I was like, that's it. What am I doing? This is ridiculous. The fact that I even had to have my team redo their day by making the files in the more it was. It was crazy. So that day I got online, I ordered the laptop, and I was done, right? So, like, I understand, like, sometimes we try and limp along, but when you look at it in the way of this is actually costing me money not to do it. Like it's costing you money. And. And it's. It's interesting. Like, what I. I know we were talking about Pro select to begin with, but it's. I almost feel like sometimes people are begrudging helping, like, other businesses making money. Like, why? Like, if you want them to stay ahead, you want the technology to constantly improve. That takes money. Like, it doesn't happen for free. People aren't programming for free. People aren't updating technology for free. It costs money to do that. So, anyways, just a little side note, but yeah, no, I mean, I see that. Like, it's funny now. I will spend money easily on things that make me money. And I know we'll make money in the studio, like Facebook ads, for example, right? Like, right now we're in the middle of testing a bunch of different things. I'm not. Oh, Jonathan, let's only test it. Like $10 a day. I don't want, you know, what I mean, like, no, let's go full force. Like, they're going to get the bookings we're going to get. And the more bookings you get, the more money you can spend. Why would you skimp on what it costs to get people into your studio? Same thing. Well, why would you skimp once they're in your studio, on selling to them? Where I do skimp on the things that don't matter. Like, I have a. A light stand that we take to our preschools that I have had since, like, 2001. A screw came out. Now it's held together with a zip tie. You know, I'm like, I'm not buying any. Why do I need a new light stand? That one's fine. It works with a zip tie. No one at the daycare is going to say, one way or another. So Instead of spending $200 on that, I'll spend it on a Facebook ad to get more clients. And you know what I mean? So there are places that you can not waste money. And I think photographers get it in reverse. They'll spend so much money on camera equipment and lighting equipment and a new camera every year. And I'm still shooting most of the sessions in the studio with my D4. It's like 8 years old. It's fine. I don't need a new camera. So it's like, where do you spend your money? I spend money on things that will make me money. Things will bring more clients into the studio. Software and displays and everything that it will take to sell more to my existing clients. Another funny example I saw. Not that we print catalogs, but I have seen other studios where they print catalogs. And I was in their studio, and I was flipping through it. I'm like, you only sell this for X. Oh, that's a typo. But we don't want to reprint it. I'm like, my. So here's your. Like, what are you doing? A Sharpie. I don't understand. Like, what? And they're like, well, to reprint. I'm like, how much would it cost you to reprint the catalogs? A hundred bucks. How much are you losing per sale? Because you won't change the price of that product.
- [12:29]
B
Yeah.
- [12:29]
C
Unbelievable. I've seen, like, business cards that have old addresses on them because people don't want to reprint their business cards, and they take a Sharpie to it, or they just tell people, that's my old address. I'm like, oh, my God, it's $30 online to print some new business cards. Throw out the Old business cards. You don't need to keep your old business cards. Keep one for a memory if you want. Toss the rest. It's unbelievable.
- [12:55]
B
So what drives this block, this mindset position? Like, is the world made up of half people who are just like that and half aren't and half are pessimists and half are optimists? Or is it.
- [13:08]
A
It's amazing how when you are with somebody who has this mindset of. And it's a limited resource mindset that, you know, particularly with, you know, I don't want to. They're looking at the cost of their leads and how much they're spending on Facebook and not really considering the opportunity that it brings them. It seems to be those are the people that seem to believe that none of their clients have money and that there's no good spenders and that they can't get good sales. And I think it's all intertwined with that limited belief. And you can't spend money you don't have. I don't believe in spending money you don't have. But it's those same people that.
- [14:07]
C
Like.
- [14:07]
A
There'S one thing about spending money, but where they spend their time. Right. I was talking to somebody a few weeks ago and they were complaining about how much they're spending on Facebook. But then when I asked them, well, have you called all the leads that have come in and how expensive Facebook is? And they had something like 180 leads that they hadn't called and it's, you know, they're a week or two behind. That's expensive. That's what's expensive. That you're not prioritizing calling those leads. And they're spending time redoing their website and they're spending time learning about this brand new action that they want to create. Meanwhile, they're complaining about how much their leads are costing, but they're not, you know, we don't get time back. And I think how we spend our time is really important and prioritizing that time. And it's similar to what you were talking about, Janine. You know, you'll spend money on what makes you money. But we have to create. We have to treat our time with the same care, as if money was flowing out of a bag and direct it to where you want to. Where is it going? Our time is money. It is. And it's also sacrificing how many people we can help through photography because we're waiting two or three weeks. And then those leads become ineffective and it's harder to Get a hold of people, when you wait two or three weeks, they've forgotten that they filled out a form three weeks ago. So it all gets a lot harder.
- [16:17]
B
So is it, I'm trying to figure out, are you born with this or do you learn it?
- [16:25]
D
So, like.
- [16:29]
B
Do you think that knowledge of business has an impact on this? Like where people think they know about business and business is about cutting costs and beating up your suppliers when, when, when prices have to go up and, you know, not upgrading to the latest software because as for the current one will do. And to save me money, when it's not actually saving money, it's costing you money. Is, is that it? Is it, Is it this knowledge of understanding, like you look at it, Janine, through the lens of will this make me money or is it costing me money? Not to, you know, is, is, is that, is that, or is it that? I know I'm asking loads of questions together now, but I'm just asking questions that come into my head. So is it that. Because that side of the business doesn't excite me, but what excites me is the latest camera. Is it that, you know, that I want to keep all my money for what excites me rather than what, channeling my excitement into making a difference to my client and they reward me for that with money where you don't have to worry about, oh my gosh, it's gone from $30 a month to $35 a month. The world is ending.
- [17:40]
A
I think we've been sold that we need this prop, we need the brand new camera. The clients are judging whether you're a professional photographer or not by the size of your lens and the type of camera that you're using. And the camera companies are selling it to us, the, the industry selling it, you know, selling it, selling it to us about, you know, which camera I'm using. The first thing they are, you tend to get asked is, oh, which you know, what camera are you using? And it's a pissing competition really. The clients really do they care? They don't. So, you know, in a lot of cases, I think it's been sold to us as an industry that it's important. If you buy this lens, you'll make more money. If you use, if you buy this extra speed light, you'll make more money. If you buy this extra diffuser, it'll make you more money. But how many are sitting in the drawer that are not being used and you know, are you using it? Is it making you more efficient? Are you Creating something that is different enough to the client that the client can see, sure, have it for fun, have something because you enjoy doing it for you. But is it going to impact the client? Will they be able to see that you've created something completely different with that extra attachment or that extra speed light or that extra lens or more depth of field? Do they see that?
- [19:28]
B
So I think, Steve, what you're saying, or this is my interpretation anyway, of it, is that what we use to measure success in our industry is misplaced. That when we're interacting with our fellow photographers, you know what's going to impress them and lead them to believe I'm successful is if I've got the latest camera, if I've got the latest lights, if I've won that award, if I've done this, if I've done that. Nothing about making an impact in the world, nothing about making a difference to your client, nothing about creating a sustainable, profitable business. None of that seems to matter in.
- [20:10]
A
This mindset or how much time you get to take off because busyness has become, you know, the new currency for success, too. That's part of it, too. I'm so busy. I'm so busy. Well, you know, I love it when our members say, I'm now working four days a week and earning four times the money than I ever had before. Or that, you know, I've gone, this is my fourth holiday this year and, you know, it's the first time that I've had a holiday, you know, for decades. That's success, you know, being able to take the time to do that. So I think defining what success is, I think you're right. It's about defining what is success and we've been lied to about what's important.
- [21:01]
B
Absolutely. I could not agree more, Jonathan. You're very quiet. You're quite there in observation, absorbing it all like a sponge. So what have you got to add?
- [21:14]
D
Nothing. I mean, I'm just taking it all in.
- [21:18]
A
Surely you see it with ads, when you're helping people with their ads.
- [21:22]
D
No, I think part of the issue is a lack of commercial awareness about what's actually important in business. Lack of ability to understand and analyze numbers. So I think there's a skill set gap there, but it's also a mentality, as we discussed. But it can be hard too, you know, if you're living paycheck to paycheck, day to day, and you have another client in for three months, you know, it's hard, it's not easy. So there's a balance Too with, we're not saying like, oh, you need to go splash the cash, because that's just reckless and stupid. But, you know, it's tough, it's not easy.
- [22:06]
A
I think it's more about where, you know, prioritizing where you splash the cash. If you are, if you do have money to spend, where's the, where's that priority? Where's the priority? Lie for something, you know, that is going to make you more efficient, give you back time, allow you, give you the time to serve one more client. That's a huge opportunity.
- [22:32]
C
I think Ronan, going back to your question on are you born with it? I don't think it's a born with a type thing, but it is more of a where do people come into this industry from? And I think so many come into this industry from an art background because they like photography, not from a business background. And so they already start with that, you know, scarcity mentality. They start with a feast or famine type way of looking at it. When they have clients, they'll spend. When they don't have clients, they don't spend. And it's like this seesaw, this up and down. They didn't come at it with how to run a business and how to book and how to spend money to make money. Like all the different business backgrounds that people running businesses have or an education that they have, they're coming at it because they like the art, they like to make people feel good with their photographs and, and they love the photography and so they have to learn the business aspect. If they didn't come into it from a, a business type training. Um, and so it's, and it's unpredictable. Right? So like, if they're coming at it from the, if like they had a 9 to 5 job ahead of time, they left their 9 to 5 where they were getting a steady paycheck every two weeks. Someone else was doing all of the work of getting the clients and getting the business. They were just clocking in and clocking out and getting paid now. Oh, well, shoot. I'm responsible for all of this. And so it's a lot. It is a lot. It is a lot.
- [24:04]
A
It's a lot to learn. And there's nothing wrong with being, you know, an employee. Nothing. No, I've hired photographers and there's nothing wrong with working as a photographer for someone where you don't have all that responsibility.
- [24:23]
B
So I read all the time that, and this might link into this too, where they say photography, the barrier to entry as a business is low I would argue it's not low. I would argue it's very, very high in terms of the skill sets you need to learn to be able to run a successful business. But I think that's out there too. If I have a camera, I have a business, I can call myself a professional. Well, you can't call yourself a doctor unless you go to medical school for seven years and you pass all the medical exams and you spend time as an apprentice, as a, as a locum or whatever they call them, the doctors in the hospital, junior doctors. And then you might be. You become a senior doctor and then you might become a consultant. Like, that's lack. That's not in our industry. That even thought process is not in our industry. The only thought process in our industry is the better photographer you become by entering awards and getting merits will make you a better business person.
- [25:23]
C
Well, and even for some, the guilt around charging for their work that artists like, struggle and artists, you know what I mean? Like that, that they're a struggling artist and that's a good artist. Yeah, I had that. Like, so I had a friend who was a photographer, like an, an artsy photographer. We'll. We'll just to distinguish, right? And was. I wouldn't say, put me down for charging for my work. We got into an interesting discussion about. I'm like, I don't understand. Like, do you, do you not want to eat? Like, this doesn't make any sense to me. Like, and, and they said I was selling out, right? That I was selling out by, by running my photography as a business. And I'm like, so who should pay you? I know, it's interesting, right?
- [26:11]
B
So who should pay you? You know, maybe someday Universal income will come in and then you can do.
- [26:16]
C
All the advertising, podcast running.
- [26:18]
B
All the taxpayers will pay you for them.
- [26:22]
C
But I think it's interesting too, because I think, I think there is those. You guys have read Rich Dad, Poor dad, right? Like, there's the generational money beliefs too. You know, I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. My whole. That's all my, like my dad, my mom, my brothers, my uncle. Like, everybody, they, they, they were immigrants to the country, they started their own businesses. My grandfather was a barber. You know, like, everybody started a business. And that was, that was the generational beliefs I grew up in was that we, we start businesses, we make money, we work. You know, you work hard, you work smart, and this is what you do. Other people don't grow up that way. And so breaking out of your. Breaking out of generational Beliefs about money is not easy.
- [27:08]
A
No. So you are conditioned, Brandon. So I'm not born with it. I think it's a conditioning.
- [27:17]
C
Yeah.
- [27:18]
B
Well, you were born into it then.
- [27:20]
C
Born into it. Conditioning. And if you were, if you were conditioned that way, you have to work to break out of that mindset.
- [27:29]
B
Yes.
- [27:30]
C
You have that choice to make.
- [27:32]
D
Yeah.
- [27:33]
B
But it's very hard to. It's practically impossible to have a successful business unless you do break out of it, unless you get really, really lucky.
- [27:42]
A
But often you need that mentor, that person that can, you know, fuel that trajectory for you in many cases.
- [27:56]
B
And Jonathan, the beauty about a difference maker revolution is you don't just get one mentor, one coach, you get four. Tell us, I want to build a business. I want to be successful. I want to understand it's all about making it about my clients. What do I do?
- [28:14]
D
Well, the first step is you hope and pray as you begin to speak that Ronan has muted himself. And he has, which is great. So once you've done that, what you need to do is you need to join the inner circle. So the inner circle is our community of driving. Don't even want to call them photographers. Thriving difference makers who are making a huge difference in their communities and in the lives of their clients and being rewarded very well for it. So all you need to do is click the link below to join in your circle and we can't wait to see you in this amazing community.
- [28:49]
B
See you on the next one.
- [28:51]
C
Bye, everyone.