Jonathan (4:30)

You know, something interesting I just thought about there, right on that line. So this is from a real experience that I had that we all shared. So I was thinking, like on the last podcast I talked about, you know, if I wanted a headshot, I'd go to AI because it's quicker, convenient, better, etc. And I wouldn't have to stand in front of the camera. Two, two and a half years ago, when we actually got our headshots taken in Tampa in Florida, right, as a team, the standing in front of the camera bit was like, ugh, pain in the arse. But that was a fun experience. And I wouldn't even call it an experience that was fun because it gave us time to spend together and to talk and to connect. And to share. And it wasn't about doing it in a photography studio. That was irrelevant. The location was irrelevant. It was that it provided us the opportunity to connect and to share and to have fun and to talk. Right? It just gave us the opportunity or an excuse to reconnect. Thinking about it, for me, it wasn't the fact that it was a photography experience. The photography had nothing to do with that. The only thing it did was it was something we had to do. So it was a catalyst for us connecting, sharing, and having fun together.

Janine (5:41)

And Janine, your favorite brand. Get this Disney. Get this Disney know why they exist, right? Because in the same way as we say, it's not about the backgrounds, Disney know that their backgrounds, which is their characters. And the immersive experience you have is part of what results in what the visitors truly value, right? Which is that time to reconnect with each other, that time to share fun together, that time for their kids to imagine what they can be in the future and have the confidence to become that. Like Disney. Get that? Right? But a lot of people go to Disney and don't understand that Disney know that that's their goal. And everything that they do is built around ensuring that goal happens for as many of the visitors as possible. So that those visitors want to come back, those clients want to come back. There's those cast members, I think is what they call us, right, when we visitors, that their fellow cast members want to come back over and over and over again. And they just. They get it. But people think it's all about the rides or it's all about Main street, or it's all about the charact. It's all Disney know that that's just part of what has to be there to achieve the end outcome for their visiting cast members.

Ronan (7:01)

And you're right, because it's providing the reason for people to get together. It's providing the reason for people to take that time off of work. Take the seven days, if you're coming from out of state, take the day for me, right? Like we go over in a day, but it's a dedicated day that I spend with my kids. We have fun together, we laugh together, we sweat together, we get stuck in the rain together. And it's. It's always. And this is what I love about experiences. It's always the unexpected. And you know, you have dreamed up in your mind what the perfect day at Disney's gonna be, right? And it's never close to that, but the stories that come from it and the experiences you Share. It's better. It's, you know, one ride not working, but this one did. You got to go here and then you got to go there. It rained, and everybody had to get underneath the same little jacket. You know, just funny. Like, you don't know what's going to happen until you experience it. And you experience it together. And it provides that time for you to spend together. To do that, you're on, like, a shared adventure. And so, yeah, Disney gets it, and they provide all those vignettes for you to do that. And they have it all scripted, and we don't need to go completely into that, but they have the whole day scripted for that. Like the. They have their parade at a specific time because they know people need a rest. They have, like, the different things are done at different times for a very purposeful reason, because that's what they want. They want people to come. It's the happiest place on earth for a reason. And they provide that background for families to come in and friends to experience that together.

Janine (8:33)

I have a Disney story just because I think it links into what you just said, Janine, right? So people think I'm mad. Now, for those who've been to Disney, right? But imagine Paris in November, right? So it's cold, it's wet, right? And our children, when Jonathan and Aaron and Freya and Marin were much, much, much younger, they wanted always to go to Disney. And we couldn't afford to go across the pond and bring them to Disney. So I had this great idea, right? I'm going to treat everybody. I actually borrowed the money to make this happen, right? Together, alone. And we went to Disney Paris in November. Guess where we stayed, Janine? We stayed in the Davy Crockett Ranch. Now, for those of you who've been to the Davy Crockett Ranch, Janine's laughing. It's a summertime experience, right? So when we arrived there, and then we had to get a bus out to the Davy Crocker. No, I think we had to get a taxi because the buses that normally run weren't running because it was November. So we arrived at Davy Crockett Ranch, and we walk in. I'll never forget Susan's face. And we opened the door and it's freezing cold outside, right? And we walk in, and Susan walks in and she goes, I just knew by her face. Susan just has that look about her, right? Our children will tell you, and they've been on amazing holidays since that. That's their favorite holiday because we got to spend really quality time Together, connect as a family, understand each other better. Right. And it wasn't all the glitz and glamour of the five star hotel just off Main Street. Right. It was the fact that we got to spend really quality time together. We did things together because we were pretty much the only people there nearly. There was two or three other families there who were mad like us.

Jonathan (10:26)

It was freezing. It was lashing rain for the whole thing. And it was the first time I kicked your butt at tennis and beat you at tennis, because I had a tennis court there, two tennis courts there, and we happened to bring our tennis rackets. It was fun.

Janine (10:41)

You were 16. I took you to league up to 16 to beat me.

Jonathan (10:44)

Great fun, as you said. I think that was. We all talk about it.

Steve (10:49)

Did you play in the range or no?

Jonathan (10:50)

No, it was indoors. It had like a shed. So it was two courts inside. So it was an amazing trick. But I think it even goes deeper than that because, you know, when it's funny, this podcast has made me think about things like, you know, why do I go to, like, an Arsenal football match? Like, what's the point? And that type of thing. And, you know, really, like the greatest marketers talk about, you know, people don't buy products, they buy identity shifts and they buy transformation. So, yes, while the activity of, the physical activity of doing things like going to a match or going to Disney or whatever, spending time together, whatever it might be, might provide, you know, in the moment, fun or unexpected things or whatever, what's actually happening is something much deeper, like on an emotional level. That's the catalyst for identity shifts and belonging and, you know, literal transformation in how you think and feel about yourself. And I think that is very important with difference maker experiences is that. Yes. Yeah. Okay. The. The catalyst of having to spend time together and come into a studio and, you know, enjoy that immersive piece is great. Right. And there's value in that. But the deeper value and what you buy is you're buying an identity shift, you're buying a transformation. And I think that's where Steve will talk about where the calls come in with the discovery calls. Because the discovery calls aren't about finding out what way do you want to be photographed, what backdrop do you love, what style do you like, what frame do you want spend? Much more than that.

Steve (12:26)

I think that what we provide as difference makers is very similar to what you. Your holiday at the Davy Crockett Holiday Inn and going to Disney and Jono, when you were talking about, you know, us going and having our headshots done and spending time together, I don't think it's any different. People are taking a break from their everyday. It's outside of their normal environment. They come into a studio and we are the guides. We are guiding this for them. And we're helping them imagine, just like Disney, what that brighter future is. And as their guides, we're helping them share and focus on sharing what they see in each other and what is valuable. And I think for many people, it's the first time that they get permission to think about, why is this person so important that I would commit the rest of my life to them? What is it about this person that I look forward to seeing every day? And if I could put it into words, what would they be? And for that person to hear it, it shapes new beliefs. Because we as a society are conditioned to rip other people apart rather than celebrate who people are. And so I don't think it's any different to all of those, you know, all of those things that you were talking about. When we create a transformational experience, what we're really doing, we are the guides. That experience happens. Well before we pick up a camera, we should be starting those conversations and starting that experience on the phone so that people are looking at each other differently, people are receiving each other differently. People begin to have those shifts in those beliefs and in hearing what they have to say because we've guided them on a journey. And those photos that we then produce are saturated with what we've created for them and those new beliefs. And that's what we're selling. That brighter future that I think all of you were talking about in a roundabout way, that's what our industry does. That's what clients are really looking for when it comes to a photographic experience. They don't know it's available when they first reach out. And until we show it to them, they don't even know they want it. But something is calling them, something is happening in their lives, and it's a huge opportunity. And I think now with AI, that it's now interpreting our values, it's interpreting that consistency that you were talking about in our stories, I think we're going to rise to the top even more powerfully and become exactly what our clients are looking for. If we understand our message, if we understand what we're truly doing, if we step into our clients shoes and begin to understand what's their purpose, what do they really want? Like, do they really want a family photo where everybody's standing in the same shirt with the Same jeans, smiling at the camera with what you can tell, even as an outsider looking down the lens, you can tell. You can tell it's a fake smile. Like they're not looking for that. They're looking for something that they can believe is going to hold them together and is going to create these new beliefs and celebrate what they believe they're capable of and set a new standard for their relationships.

Jonathan (15:47)

This is great, right? But I mean, the core focus. Ronan could probably talk a bit better than I am right now with, you know, the family business is becoming AI enabled. Right? So how do we use AI to help us?

Steve (15:58)

We can become so much more efficient in so many different areas. All those mundane tasks, all of those repetitive tasks, we can become so much more efficient, which then frees up the time to do what our clients really want and what they value is to connect with them, connecting at that human level and providing that experience. Because we have more time, we can focus on it more.

Janine (16:21)

And Steve, for that opportunity to take place, AI can help you get there. In terms of being available 24 7, when somebody inquires to actually get the conversation started and get that discovery call that you've talked about, you know, booked in the photographer's canon, you know, AI is not just about, you know, doing the retouching and the back end stuff. Right. I can now be used for that. It can be used in your marketing that Janine will talk about in a few moments when we move to the next part of this podcast. It's, it's, I think it's really, really important to think about because I used to talk about all the time. I used to get photographers to divide their time into client facing time. Right. And non client facing time. And the photographers who actually track that were always surprised at how much time they spent in non client facing time. Right. And I'm sure if you haven't done that and you do it and you're a photographer's photographer, you'd be surprised by what you see too. But the, the, the key, the key thing about that is, is that AI now can help you have more time by helping you earn that discovery call by responding 247 when you're fast asleep when an inquiry comes in because you're the first one who answers. So I think that's a critical thing too. That can also help you earn that conversation to build that relationship, not just your relationship with your client, but your client's relationship with themselves and those that they love.

Steve (17:53)

When we ran the last workshop, we had a member who booked Two photographic experiences because she wanted to experience being photographed. And she was so excited because her daughter was flying, flying in from London, her son was coming from Switzerland or something and she was having this, they live in Holland. She also booked some headshots, which was a separate photographer and she was so excited to buy the family one and was really, really looking forward to it. But she got a transactional experience, it was a booking. And she said, I've heard nothing like, I'm so excited. I'm trying to ring them to say, you know, to make sure everything's okay because my daughter's flying in from another country, my son's coming from another country and we're making this time we never get to speak to, we never get to see each other. And she said, and yet the headshot photographer has called me four times. And she said, I've now flipped. I'm so much more excited about my, my personal branding, which she thought she was getting headshots, but she ended up getting personal branding. I'm so much more committed to channeling my money in for that because of the experience that I got. And it was great. Not so great for her, I suppose, but to see the difference in how she talked about one compared to the other. And then at the end of it, she bought because she felt she had to the family sessions, she felt she had to have a family photo and that her kids went to all this effort to come. So she bought, but she bought because she had to. Whereas she spent way more on her personal branding, but she bought because she absolutely wanted to. And that's the difference. And you would, you wouldn't imagine that a personal branding or, you know, what was a headshot turned into a personal branding is about an emotional thing. The family should be, but because the photographer was the guide, because the photographer did, you know, and you know, it was a difference maker photographer gave her that experience. She found out more about who she was, more about her, why she was excited to get back to work and saw all these new possibilities. So investing in herself and that personal branding was exciting for her. And it's incredible to see the difference. It was day and night, just in her physiology, in her tonality, the way she talked about it and the way she said, you know, why she bought. So I honestly believe that a difference maker photographer is going to thrive when we understand what our clients truly are wanting from an experience as opposed to what will we be conditioned to believe as photographers.

Jonathan (20:35)

I have a contrarian opinion on this.

Steve (20:38)

Okay, I knew you would have Jono

Jonathan (20:43)

because the first step, if you haven't by now, at the end of this series, like to survive, you gotta click that button applied to an inner circle. That's where you need to be. The contrarian opinion is that, interestingly, there has been some research that has not been fact checked yet by me, but there's been research done by me that suggests that humans are actually more comfortable working with an AI therapist over a human therapist because they don't feel judged and because they don't feel well. That's the primary reason. And there are now, Janine seen this on Facebook, cafes popping up in the US and stuff where they facilitate you bringing your AI partner on a date night. And you have a screen or a phone facing you with your AI partner there that you're having conversations with.

Steve (21:28)

Would that be cheating if I brought my AI partner?

Jonathan (21:31)

Yes, probably. I don't know though. So the contrarian opinion, and what's yet to be known, is that can AI actually connect better with humans than humans can connect with humans? And the early research seems to indicate that, yes, it can. But that remains to be seen and to see that development get in the inner circle because we'll share more on that as it develops.

Ronan (21:55)

So what's interesting before you leave us a little cliffhanger, Jonathan, because I actually really, I think you brought up a very interesting point that I don't think Steve left out. But I do think if you, if you look at the contrast between the two, so a difference maker photographer knows that we're not the hero. Our clients are the hero. And we're providing them with that space to be with their family. That's where the interaction is special, not us. And again, if you think that it's because of you, then it's, you might as well just be the photographer's photographer. It's not because of you. You're providing the space. Right. It's not because of Disney. They're providing the experience. They know how to guide you through that experience. I had a client and I think I had told the story before but like at Christmas she worked. She was insurance. Right. And so open enrollment gear in the US for our lovely paid insurance people who run those, they work literally 247 for like two months. And she worked 247 for two months. Right. And she wanted, she's always done Christmas photos. It's part of their family. They, they get together, they do Christmas photos with us, the studio. But she couldn't figure out when to do it because she's working 24 7. I came in. I broke my. My rule, Steve, about no photos under 4, after 4. Although the kid is 5 now, so I guess that's okay. And so I met her at 8 o'. Clock. I met them at 8 o' clock at night so that she could take this photo. She was late. She was still at work. The boys cried when she walked in the studio door, they cried. The youngest kept petting his mother's hair like she. He was like, climbing on her, sitting in her lap and grabbing at her hair. He's like, mommy, I haven't seen you. And she's like, I saw you this morning when I left for work. And he's like, but it doesn't feel like I've seen you, you know? And I was quite. I was quiet most of the time. I gave them the space to be together as a family. It wasn't about me. I didn't want to insert myself into that. I guided them into the studio. I photographed them. I gave them the space to be together. And again, she cried at the end. She's like, everybody told me, why am I doing this? Why am I stressing myself out? And I knew that I had to still do this. I'm not going to not do my family Christmas photos. And look at, like, it forced her. Kind of like Disney did with you, right, Ronan? It forced you to be. It forced her to be together as a family, to have that time, to make the priority of that. She was the hero, not me.

Jonathan (24:20)

On that note, make sure you join the inner circle and we'll see you on next week's podcast. Bye for now.

Janine (24:28)

For now. Bye.

Jonathan (24:29)

Bye.

Ronan (24:29)

Bye for now.