← The Digital Executive
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- [00:00]
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- [00:39]
Brian (Podcast Host)
Welcome to Corusant Technologies, home of the Digital Executive podcast. Do you work in emerging tech? Working on something innovative? Maybe an entrepreneur? Apply to be a guest at www.corazon.com brand. Welcome to the Digital Executive. Today's guest is Dr. Colin Robertson. Dr. Colin Robinson or Dr. Call is the Chief Product Officer for health and wellness company Zenzino. Dr. Call is an environmental physiologist with a PhD in exercise physiology who helps translate cutting edge sports science into practical strategies for athletes, adventurers and everyday health seekers. For more than two decades, he has helped shape health strategies and standards for organizations worldwide and including Europe, Active, UK Active, and the National Health Science. A specialist in human performance and sports science, he has coached and prepared global adventures to tackle extraordinary challenges from climbing Everest to rowing the Atlantic and supported athletes in strength and conditioning across various sports including rugby, wrestling and wheelchair basketball in national and international competitions. Well, good afternoon, Colin. Welcome to the show.
- [01:51]
Dr. Colin Robertson
Thank you very much. It's good to be here. Brian. Thank you for the opportunity.
- [01:54]
Brian (Podcast Host)
Absolutely, my friend. I appreciate it and I really appreciate the fact that you made the time making our calendar sync up. We're about five hours apart. I'm in Kansas City, you're near Liverpool in England and I really appreciate that because I know sometimes traversing the globe can be hard to make calendars meet up. So Colin, jumping into your first question, you've built a career spanning environmental physiology, elite sports science, clinical health strategy and now serve as Chief Product Officer at Zenzino. What pivotal moments shape your journey to where you are today?
- [02:33]
Dr. Colin Robertson
Wow, that's a. That's a great question. I would say my story looked linear, but it's not. I went from working in high performance sports and, and then took a clinical role. And I did that because I felt there was so much we were able to do in a high performance setting that the general population didn't benefit from. And so I think a pivotal role for me was the six years I spent when I went back to the hospital and I worked as a clinical exercise physiologist and really unlearning some things, applying what I would call best practice from human performance, and then seeing how I could amalgamate those things to go forward in a more dual sense. I went back to high performance sport and I started to work far more on population health strategy. So I think at the time people questioned my sanity on going back to the hospital setting. But I think that that was the moment that really I was able to bring those worlds together and that's what enabled my career ever since.
- [03:39]
Brian (Podcast Host)
Yeah, that's awesome. I really appreciate that. And sometimes you find more or you unleash more doing something more diverse in your career, you know, changing it up, as they say.
- [03:51]
Carvana Advertiser
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- [04:05]
Dr. Colin Robertson
You don't say.
- [04:06]
Carvana Advertiser
Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.
- [04:09]
Dr. Colin Robertson
Wow, way to go.
- [04:11]
Carvana Advertiser
So about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.
- [04:16]
Brian (Podcast Host)
Car selling made easy on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. What you did is really bring that elite and high performance physiology and that, that background together with your clinical together to make really something great. So I appreciate that background, honestly. And Colin, as chief product officer at Zenzino, and how do you translate rigorous sports science and clinical research into practical scalable health products for everyday consumers?
- [04:46]
Dr. Colin Robertson
Well, I guess that's, that's where it, it's kind of been coming together. So just to maybe add a little bit, you know, I'd worked in high performance sport, I was working in premiership football, I was working with Olympic athletes, decided to go back and work clinically. And I did that because I, I was confident we could do rehabilitation better. Whether you were rehabilitating from a chronic disease, musculoskeletal, whatever it was, and then that real deep end learning of complex pathology. When I went back to sport, I felt like I had a clearer, broader understanding of the research context. Everything from the worst conditions to optimizing human conditions. And so prior to Zinzino, my role was really as a research coordinator where we would look at the best available research evidence and see how that could lend itself to literally global health strategies. And so taken from that background and then coming into Zinzino, which is a research evidence based nutrition company, was seamless because we judge everything by the same standard. What is the mechanistic explanation for this in the research, in the science? What does that say? Is the best way to do this and then you interpret that, you apply that. There's always a technical aspect when you're trying to produce a food supplement. And then you're looking at all those things that go back to clinical relevancy. What is the therapeutic dose, what can we say genuinely works? Is there enough in this? So I think, although I didn't know it at the time, you never do. I think all those experiences of change in practice from high performance to hospital back to high performance, interpretation of data, taking that into global health strategies and then bringing that in alignment to going, okay, how can we bridge nutritional gaps? What does the research say? I feel like it just made sense. I feel like everything I'd learned and trained and the skills that developed over time really came together when I joined Zenzino. And that's the mindset that we adopt as an organization, as a team, and certainly I preserve that to this day. It's how we maintain our standards. So, yeah, it's complex, it's challenging, but that's what makes it rewarding.
- [07:16]
Brian (Podcast Host)
Really love that story. You start out again working with athletes, high performance, that area of professional football, Olympic athletes, and then going back into that clinical setting where there's a huge research context, as you talked about, and then going back to high performance and really, again, melding the best of both worlds there. And again, what you're doing today is only making people's health, people's lives and their performance in the cases of athletes, much, much better. So thank you. And Colin, you worked extensively in the Omega 3 space. One key question I have for you, seeing as yesterday was the Global Omega 3 day, how can consumers and industry together ensure that omega 3 supplementation is both scientifically effective with the right forms, doses, etc. And ethically sustainable while remaining affordable and accessible?
- [08:11]
Dr. Colin Robertson
Wow, that is, yeah, that's the, that's probably the question that's gonna determine how my career is, is judged, in all honesty. So the area of Omega 3 when it comes to supplementation has been a roller coaster and even my experience, way before joining Zenzino, you're trying to embed an omega 3 strategy in high performance sport. And then when I was in the hospital and you're looking at the cardio muscular protective aspects of Omega 3 because logic would dictate you, you just tell somebody to eat more fatty fish. But logic runs short when human rationality comes into play. Humans are creatures of habit and they like what they like and they don't like what they don't like, regardless of how good you tell them it is for them. And so supplementation around Omega 3 is nothing new. The problem is, is that we've already, we've always known Omega 3, when you turn it into, into a refined oil and you isolate it, it's no longer attached to an equivalent of a polyphenol. It's a little bit different because it's algae based, but it's, it's, it's similar enough, it's sensitive to heat, to oxidation, it, most of it won't survive the stomach, the acid of the stomach and then it gets into the gut where its first instances to really feed the bacteria. And so we've already, we've known for a long time that Omega 3 supplementation makes sense, but it's difficult to determine whether or not it works. And the average person takes a product in good faith, but really all the epidemiology tells us that they don't work. And there's been a lot of studies. There was a Cochrane systematic Meta analysis review in 2018 that said, listen, standard omega 3 supplements don't work. But we've moved forward.
- [10:09]
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- [10:35]
Brian (Podcast Host)
Grocery Outlet bargain market.
- [10:39]
Dr. Colin Robertson
And again, going back to that notion of going from high performance to clinical. It's what I would call the technological trickle down effect in sports. We measure everything. We always have, because sport is won in, in hundreds, thousands of seconds. So we measure everything, whether it's a person's strength parameters. We're doing blood analysis, VO2 max. You met, you meant, you name it, we measure it. And so really, and that's what science is, science is about effective measurement. And so what you have to do is you have to be able to go, well, test, don't guess, let's see whether or not you, first of all, you need it. What is the status? Let's do a blood analysis and then let's target a supplementation strategy that will address that need. Because I can't emphasize enough. Omega 3 is an, it's an essential fatty acid, but the role it plays in optimizing human health is also essential. And so for the consumer out there, I would say that a bit like when you're buying your car, you know that the cheapest car is probably not going to be the best car. And you also want to have certain guarantees in place with regards to the how efficient, how safe, how everything you'd want to know about that car. Take that mindset and apply it to your supplementation. Test the status and test whether or not what you're consuming can genuinely alter your position and get you above. And we know the levels that you need to be at, we know that we want you to be above 8% total of your fat is contributed from omega 3 that EPA and DHA. So we, we have these really firm, well recognized threshold in science. The key is to make sure that we get there. And that goes back again to your question about the ethical. Because 100 years ago there was 2 billion people on planet Earth, now there's 8 billion. But it's the same ocean, it's the same ecology. We've got, you know, four times the amount of people who need the same resources. And so sometimes even as a nutritionist, I feel guilty when I say just, just consume more fatty fish. That's just not pragmatic, it's not realistic. I can't tell a billion people to eat more fatty fish. And so what we have to look at and certainly how we judge ourselves is are we prioritizing, investing and supporting ethical, the most ethical fishing standards and can we certify that and also our investment in the future? Because the reality is we take the Omega 3 from the sea algae and we take it from the fish because the fish consumes the sea algae. We need to eliminate that step. We need to rely less on the fish and more on the clean cultivation of the algae because that gives us sustainability, it gives us ecology and it's also far more ethical. Then the technical aspect of that at the moment is developing. But we are hot on the pursuit. And I think that anybody working in the Omega 3 space is duty bound to be making that type of investment in the future. We cannot keep taking fish from the ocean. It's essential for human health, it optimizes human health and there is a cleaner, more ethical way to do it. We need to invest in that and do it better. And that's certainly something that we take very, very seriously.
- [14:08]
Brian (Podcast Host)
Thank you, I appreciate that. Colin, you talked about this Omega 3 supplementation. It's very important, as you said, for humans. It's essential fatty acid that we need. But you know, you also talk about some of the problems which is good here that you test, don't guess. You talked about measuring everything because Omega 3 is difficult to determine what is really working. I know that you said it's very sensitive to dead acids and heat and that sort of thing. So I really appreciate you breaking that down. But it is important that we look to the future. As population grows, we need to make sure that we're ethically sourcing our Omega 3 wherever we get that, including the ocean, of course. And Colin, the last question of the day here. As we look ahead, how do you see the future of health, performance, science and personalized wellness evolving over the next decade? And what breakthroughs excite you most?
- [15:01]
Dr. Colin Robertson
Oh yeah, that. I mean, I think we've embraced the idea of measurement and I really enjoy that because as I said a moment ago, science is all about measurement. It's how we can accurately measure something and then determine what is the best case given what we know and whether it's wearable tech. Most people will have a smartwatch they either wear every day or they use it for when they're exercising or physically active. You know, for us, we are still campaigning a lot to take those kind of blood measurements where we can analyze things really at a deeper biological physiological sense. But I think that the future of this is going to be that we can do that in less invasive means. I think that the same way that we've shifted gut measurement from taking fecal samples to now, we can take really in depth blood analysis that gives us a biochemical insight rather than just what's there. We can see what's actually happening now. And I think as we move forward, our technology will advance to the extent where we can take those measurements by other means. Currently there's a lot of work around infrared, there's a lot of work around silometrics, taking salivary samples. And I think it's really exciting because, you know, you used a word that's really provocative and I enjoy it. Individualization. We have these guidelines that can guide us and lead us to better health, but there's a huge amount of individual variance. And I think for far too long whole industries really have given far too generic advice. And I think that we are now on the very threshold of a new dawn of giving people hyper individualized guidance based on real world measurement. And we're making that measurement easier and easier, more convenient, more a whole. And that's what excites me. I think that there's breaking the narrative of one cap fits all, empowering people to have better health based on their terms, their needs. I think we really are at the. We've already commenced, we've come a long way, but I think what's around the corner is way more exciting. I think we are going to literally change global health statistics by making it matter on a personal level. And so that's really what I'm hoping to spend the rest of my career on playing a part in achieving.
- [17:26]
Brian (Podcast Host)
That's awesome. And we talk a lot about technology and smart tech here, health tech type devices and platforms, including AI. But you talked about that smart tech is key. Using tech for those less invasive measurements. Right. You talk about biochemical insights, osilometrics and, and with the technology in this really, I guess refined or advanced measurements, we're able to really hyper individualize as you said, specific nutritional plans for everybody, making it very personal, which in the end makes the person a tad more healthy for sure. Knowing that we can just get very specific to a particular human. So thank you, I really appreciate that. And Colin, it was such a pleasure having you on today and I look forward to speaking with you real soon.
- [18:16]
Dr. Colin Robertson
Thank you very much bro. I enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Have a good day.
- [18:19]
Brian (Podcast Host)
Bye for now.