← The Digital Executive
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- [00:01]
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- [00:26]
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- [01:05]
Podcast Host
Welcome to Corzant Technologies, home of the Digital Executive podcast. Do you work in emerging tech? Working on something innovative? Maybe an entrepreneur? Apply to be a guest at www.corazant.com brand welcome to the Digital Executive. Today's guest is Dr. Kurt Love. Dr. Kurt Love is the founder and managing director of INA Consulting and Educational Services as well as an educator and management consultant. As a creator of the human centric leadership model and community thriving spectrum, he helps organizations move past basic compliance into true human thriving. His data driven systematic approach transforms workplace culture, proving that employee well being is a paramount condition and least understood that drives financial success. Well, good afternoon Kurt. Welcome to the show.
- [01:57]
Dr. Kurt Love
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
- [01:59]
Podcast Host
Awesome Kurt, I appreciate it. And I know you're hailing out of the Hartford, Connecticut area. I'm in Kansas City, so appreciate the time navigating traversing the globe today to make this happen. So Kurt, if you don't mind, I'm going to start your first question. Let's start with your journey. You're an associate professor, an elected school board member, and now the founder of INA Consulting. How did your path as an educator lead you to building a consulting practice focused on workplace thriving?
- [02:29]
Dr. Kurt Love
Yeah, this is something that's been evolving over time for me, but it seems that there are a lot of areas where they're overlapping between the world of education and business. Makes sense and I think a of lot. A lot of times people have thought in one direction how business can influence education. But it's become more and more obvious to me that there's some skill sets in education that make a lot of sense to have become more at the forefront of leadership within business. So a little bit of that is where we as teachers have to. I always joke about this, right? But getting a bunch of 12 and 13 year olds to do algebra, this is not something that 12 and 13 year olds wake up to every morning and go, gee, I can't wait to go do algebra. So how, how does that actually happen? Right. What we do as teachers is we're. We become really, really very high tuned in. How do we create relationships, how do we create support, how do we sort of maximize and optimize somebody's ability to be productive? And. And that just makes sense in the business world or in any organization, really. It can be a nonprofit, it can be a government agency. And I think a lot of times when we become adults, you know, the adulthood can be quite a grind. Every day can be filled with challenges. And if it's good stress, stress that's helping us grow and feel accomplished and challenging us in ways that are just overall positive, that's a good thing. But if it's the kind of grinding down chronic stress that doesn't seem to relent, it doesn't seem to have any goals in mind that can really bring us down. And I think there's something to be noticed and something that we can lean into in terms of management, in terms of leadership, and just in terms of really supporting each other through the different goals and the different projects that come with our jobs and our workplace. So there's a lot of, I think, learning that can happen, that can be really, really profitable and make the workplace a lot better for everybody, leaders and staff included. So that's kind of the overlap that I see.
- [04:39]
Podcast Host
Thank you, I appreciate that. And you did highlight education and business do overlap. They work hand in hand. And you went into stress a little bit, which can be healthy. The good stress can be, and it's positive for your advancement and growth in life and career, et cetera. But there is a lot of bad stressors out there. And we know that. But with your help, with some learning here, we can learn how to tackle this and thrive in the workplace. And we'll talk a little bit more about what you're doing here in the next set of questions. Kurt, a central idea in your work is quiet cracking. The slow erosion that drives up sick days and turnover. How is that different from quiet quitting and what does it cost organizations that don't catch it?
- [05:19]
Dr. Kurt Love
Sure. Yeah, I think this is the very silent killer in a workplace. Quiet cracking. So I think we're, a lot of us are very Familiar with quite quitting. Quite quitting is a very. It's a voluntary thing. It's somebody deciding that this isn't the right fit for them anymore. They're not necessarily going to make a big to do about it. They're just looking for other avenues. So when the time comes they find something they like, they leave. Right. And it's. It's not with any flag waving, it's not with any bullhorns. Right. It's just simply gotta go. But what we have learned is that this quiet quitting really is led much earlier with something called quiet cracking. Quiet cracking is, is. It's not voluntary, it's involuntary. It's something that's happening under the surface and it's oftentimes happening with high performers, which is even really more risky when we think about it, because these are the people who we really rely on for our projects and our teams to do well. Quite cracking is that invisible experience where people are pushing really hard to do well, but they're hitting their limits. And they're hitting their limits so often that it's breaking them down. And that was sort of the grind that I was talking about before. And I think many of us can relate to that. Quiet cracking is eventually going to compound. It's eventually going to become some sort of response. Whether it's quiet quitting, whether it's. It's going to HR for something, who knows, right? But it has a lot of avenues for things not going well. So it really behooves us as people who are leaders and working with our teams and managing to dig in to find out what is going on mentally and emotionally with our team members on a very regular basis. Not every day, that would be a lot too much. But to get into, I think, a good cycling of understanding what is happening. Are my team members, are they okay? Are they burning out? Are they in this space of quiet cracking but not telling anybody? So, you know, we have ways of anonymously checking in. And it's not about anything punitive, it's not about anything that leads to a negative outcome, somebody being dismissed or anything like that. What it really is about is just getting that general sentiment deeply understood as a leader, so that you can make really informed decisions that, you know, inform just sort of the trajectory of the business or the organization, but also taking really good care of the people who are doing all of that heavy lifting on a regular basis. Do they feel that they have the support? Do they feel that they have the recovery when they need it? Do they. Are they coming to Work feeling drained already? Are they leaving work feeling even more drained? Right. Those are recipes for disaster within any company. And I just want to remind people listening, that it's not that adults don't want challenges. Adults thrive in environments that provide the right kind of challenges. So it's. It's really about understanding that we can do the hard work. It's just not pushing so much or adding so much to the pressure cooker that we then have that explosion down the road or just the breakdown down the road. Right. So that's the idea. Plant cracking is invisible until you start to check for it, then it starts to show up. Right. But you gotta actually actively find out what's going on within your own system, within your own people.
- [08:52]
Podcast Host
Great. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And that's, I think. Well, I know a lot of organizations struggle with that. It's really kind of part of the dynamics within a workforce and stressors, et cetera. But you mentioned silent that, the silent killers, really, that term, quiet cracking, it's involuntary. It's under that surface. You don't know it's there. And that includes your top performers, as you mentioned. And eventually quiet cracking will eventually compound into some negative or maybe large event. And some examples are just like flat out quitting or leaving the organization, which we don't want to have happen, obviously with, especially with some really good people out there. So it's important to do that, that healthy, check in with staff on a regular basis and kind of understand what's pushing the buttons, good or bad. So thank you, Kurt. The next question here, you make the case that employee well being is a paramount but least understood driver of financial success. And you use employee Net promoter score as a profit strategy. How do you turn well being from a soft idea into a measurable, thriving ROI that a CFO takes seriously?
- [09:55]
Dr. Kurt Love
Yeah, that's a great question. Because a lot of times the question is around how does this financially benefit an organization?
- [10:04]
Podcast Host
Right.
- [10:05]
Dr. Kurt Love
So I think businesses understand from a customer point of view, the net promoter score concept. Right. Is another, is a customer going to recommend to another customer, hey, you know, you should use this product or you should buy this service? Something along those lines. Well, from the employee side of things, it's, do you want to work here and would you recommend working here to others? And that's a really powerful sentiment, that it's a retainer in a lot of ways. Right. It retains people, which saves a lot of money onboarding folks, hiring, going through the whole process, hiring a recruiter. If we're talking about somebody at that level. These are all very costly things that are seen as investments during that time period. But if you have somebody who's strong and you want to keep them, or if you have a team of people who are strong and you want to keep them, what is their sentiment? Right? What's their employee net promoter score? And that's something that can be tracked, right? We can have metrics around that that gives us a good sense of, do people want to stay here, are they recommending and are they even. They may be doing their own sort of informal recruitment for you, which costs nothing when there is an opening. They may know somebody who's really talented and would be a great fit for that business. So all of those things become just. It's actually quite measurable. Again, once you start to dig down into that within your company now, you have a good sense of how much money are we actually saving by creating this really stable, very workable environment that people want to come to. So as a cfo, right, that's the side that tends to be the blind spot that we're not necessarily looking at. Right. We're looking at things that seem to be, quote, unquote, more tangible, which I get. But one of the biggest and most missed ROIs is this. How are we creating this environment that is optimizing the folks that are there supporting them? Are they feeling good about coming to work and are they recommending it to other people, especially when it comes time to look for new talent? So that pays for itself in dividends, right? I think there's. Once you wrap your head around that, you go, yeah, right. And as a cfo, if you don't have a system in place to actually track that, it's really hard to make the case that this is going on. Right? So again, this blind spot can be very costly. It can be something that you may actually have something really good going on, but you're not tracking it. So you don't know. And then you can't make the case for continuing along these lines. And then something happens, and all of a sudden you start to lose that and you're wondering, wait a minute, what's going on now? Right. Well, you weren't tracking it to begin with, and now something major happened. Maybe it was a change in leadership, right? Sometimes leadership can have a highly negative impact depending on who comes in. And all of a sudden this quiet cracking maybe starts to increase, right? This is an example. Or just the general sentiment becomes more negative while people start leaving, people start taking more sick days, people start Turning over. So you get the idea here. Right. But as a cfo, if you're not tracking it, you have no way to say, hey, time out. Right. We have seen a major trend change here within our organization. What's going on? Well, we don't know. So we're going to start guessing and throwing the darts at the dartboard until we think we hit the thing that's causing all of that strife.
- [13:32]
Podcast Host
Thank you. Really well put. You know, and you talked about how does this also financially impact an organization or benefit. Right. Negatively or positive here. You know, you talked about, would current employees recommend others to work at that organization? What is employee sentiment? What's their net promoter score? This is all positive things. Obviously, if you're moving that needle in that right direction, your employees are absolutely going to be a great case for an employee referral or a public relations that helps the organizations bottom line and doesn't cost a thing. You talked about that, but really appreciate those insights. And Kurt, as the last question of the day, as we look ahead, with digital exhaustion rising and the lines between work and life increasingly blurred, where do you see the future of workplace culture heading and what should leaders be doing now to build organizations that bolster people rather than grind them down?
- [14:30]
Dr. Kurt Love
Yeah, this is a great question. Thank you for asking it. Because I think there's some significant headwinds coming our way that I don't know that people are necessarily attuned to. Right. I think right now we're still struggling with trying to figure out where does AI sit within. Where does it sit well within an organization, how does it become an enhancement, not a replacement, where are the efficiencies and so forth.
- [14:55]
Sponsor Representative - Canva
Right.
- [14:55]
Dr. Kurt Love
There's a lot of wobbling around. I think trying to figure out what that looks like. That's necessarily a current challenge. Right. But I think future headwinds also include, like we're talking about major market slowdowns, we're talking about between data centers and a lot of pushback communities that are saying, we don't necessarily want this in our area. There's too much of a environmental negative and so forth right there. There's a lot of headwinds that are not always seen, you know, ahead of time enough. So my question, I should add too, you know, there's a rising understanding that even with AI, there's quantum computing. I'm not going to get into too much detail there, but that actually might be a really good solution to the kind of problems that we're seeing with data centers. But what that might end up doing is data centers may be a really bad investment.
- [15:52]
Podcast Host
Right.
- [15:52]
Dr. Kurt Love
And that could be its own headwind for companies that are putting billions of dollars into data centers. Right. How's that going to affect the company when they start to realize that this money is not doing what it's supposed to be doing? That's a potential. So anyway, those headwinds are real and it's going to have ripple effects down the road. So my question to organizations is whether or not these things happen. Right. My crystal ball is only so good. I only get a certain number of miles at it. But what are you doing to prepare and stabilize your workplace for any headwinds that show up, for any challenges that show up, things that were predicted or things that were unpredicted? How do you do that? Well, if you don't have that kind of stable work environment to begin with, things are going to get upended pretty quickly. And we've seen that in some big companies where thousands of people were laid off. Right. Just almost on the impulse or the whim of let's see if AI can take care of all this stuff. And it turns out it really can't. So this is crucial to any organization to have that kind of inner stability, that inner thriving going on. Because as problems arise, people really do step in and step up a lot of times to take on, you know, these, these challenges and they're willing to do that if they feel like there's trust, if there's, if they're being valued and that's, that's all good. Again, if we're not investing in that though, if we're not tracking that, if we're not understanding the data around that as much as we understand the data with our customer data, then we're really missing out on something crucial to the survival of an organization or a business. So I think that's, that's so important and I think that there is a rising understanding that this has to be just as seen as, just as important as other parts of what we're already measuring within our business or organization.
- [17:51]
Podcast Host
Thank you. I think that was really important that we are measuring the people side of it, not just, you know, the bottom line or that we have all kinds of KPIs that we're tracking as far as the company's strategic direction. But people should need to be the center of that. Absolutely. You talked about some of the significant future headwinds coming down our way with AI. Of course. I think there's a lot of positive, it's a double edged sword, a lot of negative. And maybe as you said, quantum computing combined with AI could be the magic bullet. But as you talked about on the flip side, there's this massive, expensive environmentally challenges that go into this, of course. But at the end of the day, Kurt, as you mentioned, we need to create a stable work environment, build that inner stability, need to invest in people and their well being. And I think that's so important. So I appreciate the message. And Kurt, it was such a pleasure having you on today and I look forward to speaking with you real soon.
- [18:44]
Dr. Kurt Love
Yeah, appreciate it. This is great. Thank you so much.
- [18:47]
Podcast Host
Bye for now.