Podcast Summary: The Digital Marketing Podcast

Episode: A Local SEO Question and a Global SEO Conference
Date: August 24, 2016
Hosts: Daniel Rowles & Ciaran Rogers
Guest: Kelvin Newman (Founder and Organizer, Brighton SEO Conference)

Episode Overview

This episode tackles a listener's local SEO dilemma — how can large brands with limited physical presence still gain local exposure? Hosts Daniel Rowles and Ciaran Rogers are joined by Kelvin Newman, author and organizer of the Brighton SEO Conference, to explore practical local SEO strategies, demystify trust-building signals, and dig into both technical and strategic aspects of search optimization. The conversation also offers a behind-the-scenes look at the rapid growth of one of Europe’s biggest SEO conferences and its unique approach to industry training.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge: Local SEO for Large Online Brands

Listener Question:
How can a large or exclusively online brand compete in local SEO, given its lack of physical outlets?
[01:21]

Daniel's Experience: Target Internet struggled with competing brand visibility. Their Google My Business listing was unverified, so another, unrelated physical business appeared in local panels—even receiving Target Internet’s mail and Christmas gifts!
- Solution: Verifying Google My Business and listing on Moz Local.
- Outcome: Improved visibility and trust through local panels.
- Quote:
  
  "You hit the verify button, they will send you something in the mail...you put it in and suddenly become verified. Then you go back to Moz Local and go, 'Oh, you do exist after all.'" — Daniel Rowles [02:32]
- Insight: While local directory links may not directly affect SEO ranking, they increase perceived trust and legitimacy for users and search engines.

2. Modern Search Results Are Personalized & Contextual

Kelvin’s Perspective:

Google's biggest change isn’t just algorithms, but interface — the introduction of local/map panels, especially with mobile and location data.
- Local intent is context-dependent: Even non-modified search terms (e.g., “hairdresser”) are auto-localized based on user location.
- Myth-busting: There’s no absolute "rank #1" for a term; rankings are personalized.
- Quote:
  
  "It's not like, 'These are websites 1 to 10 for that search query.' The person who makes the search...all that information is personalizing those search results." — Kelvin Newman [06:39]
Incognito mode doesn’t guarantee depersonalized results: IP-based geolocation still heavily influences outcomes.
- Quote:
  
  "Go incognito and you're still going to find jobs to your local location because your IP address is being used." — Daniel Rowles [07:26]
Best Practice: Avoid fake local listings or creating city landing pages for locations where you don’t operate—Google views this as deceptive.
- Quote:
  
  "If you're trying to create post-find PO boxes to get listings in those cities, that's not gonna work." — Kelvin Newman [05:46]

3. Local Listings as 'Trust Hygiene'

Trust Signals Add Up:
- Being listed across reputable directories (e.g., Yelp, FourSquare) doesn’t provide huge SEO benefit per link, but cumulatively signals genuine, established business.
- Quote:
  
  "It's the sum total of all of those links feeds through and adds the benefit, not any one individual thing." — Ciaran Rogers [08:24]
- This is a vital “hygiene factor”—an expected baseline, not a game-changer on its own.

4. The Value and Pitfalls of HTTPS

Google now rewards HTTPS as a ranking factor:
- Small effect individually, but increasingly necessary as e-commerce trust signal.
- Cost/Benefit: For new sites, it’s a must-have; for established sites, migration risks/difficulty can outweigh modest gains.
- Quote:
  
  "If you're e-commerce, you need HTTPS, but...even a normal website, if I was speccing a brand new website from launch tomorrow, I'd include that on the spec." — Kelvin Newman [11:00]
- For mature sites, always weigh technical effort vs. expected SEO gains.

5. Testing SEO Changes before Large-Scale Rollout

A/B Testing for Technical SEO
- Emerging tools (e.g., Distilled's platform) allow technical SEO split-tests by deploying changes to a subset of pages (like using a CDN), mitigating risk and saving IT/development resources.
- Useful for companies with long dev cycles or high-stakes changes.
- Quote:
  
  "If you're a marketer, the danger is...What you really don't want to do is go through that process, then have to roll it back." — Kelvin Newman [14:23]

6. There Is No Universal SEO Solution

Competitive Mindset:
- SEO is about being better than direct competitors, not “beating Google”.
- Techniques must be tailored; what benefits an e-commerce site may not help B2B.
- Quote:
  
  "Google isn't a judge, they're a referee. Right. So they're not judging how good your website is. They're...not, 'You don't beat Google, you know, that's not what you're doing.' What you're doing is, am I doing a better job than my competitors?" — Kelvin Newman [16:57]
- Focus on relative advantage in your niche.

Spotlight: The Brighton SEO Conference

Kelvin Newman shares the story and ethos behind Brighton SEO
[18:46]

Started as an informal meetup in a pub for Brighton’s SEO community.
Growth trajectory: Pub → Larger venues → Now Brighton Centre, with 3,500+ attendees.
Tickets: Originally free, highly demanded (1,700 tickets sold out in 60 seconds!)
- Some paid/VIP tickets still available.
Unique Features:
- Focus on actionable, high-value content over commercialization.
- Day before the main event is dedicated to deep-dive training in niche areas (e.g., App Store Optimization).
- Networking and environment are key strengths.
Quote:
> "The first thing you need to do is help people, right? You need to share stuff...Our ambition is, how do we arrange a physical event where people go away and they don't feel like they've been ripped off..." — Kelvin Newman [21:09]
On Brighton itself:
> "Brighton...the greatest city in the world...It is a great city. It's where we're based. It's a great city to visit, particularly at this time of year when it's sunny and beautiful." — Daniel Rowles [24:00]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On fake local SEO pages:

"If you don't exist in those locations, it's a scam. And just like anything else, Google is potentially going to punish you for doing that." — Daniel Rowles [05:20]
On the competitive nature of SEO:

"You don't beat Google...What you're doing is, am I doing a better job than my competitors?" — Kelvin Newman [16:57]
On the Brighton SEO conference’s philosophy:

"You need to be all about...how do you help people do their job better?...You don't feel like you've been ripped off, you don't feel like you've spent £1,500 on a soggy buffet lunch." — Kelvin Newman [21:09]

Timestamps for Important Segments

[01:21] - The listener’s local SEO question and Daniel’s Moz Local example
[03:30] - Kelvin on Google’s user interface evolution and trust implications
[05:20] - Pitfalls of faking local presence (and Google’s response)
[06:39] - Personalization of search results; there is no absolute ranking
[07:26] - Location personalization even in incognito mode
[08:24] - The cumulative effect of trust signals in local directories
[09:50] - HTTPS as a ranking factor and its pros/cons
[12:56] - Technical SEO A/B testing and how it helps risk mitigation
[16:57] - Framing SEO competition: Better than competitors, not “beating Google”
[18:46] - Origins and philosophy of Brighton SEO
[20:19] - Conference growth, ticket demand, and venue move
[22:41] - Value of deep-dive training and networking at Brighton SEO

Summary Takeaways

Local SEO for online brands is about trust: verify your Google My Business, list in reputable directories, and build real (not fake) local credibility.
Google’s results are fundamentally contextual and personalized—stop chasing a universal “#1 rank.”
HTTPS and directory listings are modern table stakes ('hygiene factors') for trust and discoverability.
Test any major SEO change before wide rollout—tools are making this easier.
In SEO, don’t fixate on beating Google: focus on consistently outdoing your competition.
The Brighton SEO conference embodies the “help first” approach—focused on real value and learning, which fuels its global growth.

Podcast Summary: The Digital Marketing Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge: Local SEO for Large Online Brands

Listener Question:
How can a large or exclusively online brand compete in local SEO, given its lack of physical outlets?
[01:21]

Daniel's Experience: Target Internet struggled with competing brand visibility. Their Google My Business listing was unverified, so another, unrelated physical business appeared in local panels—even receiving Target Internet’s mail and Christmas gifts!
- Solution: Verifying Google My Business and listing on Moz Local.
- Outcome: Improved visibility and trust through local panels.
- Quote:
  
  "You hit the verify button, they will send you something in the mail...you put it in and suddenly become verified. Then you go back to Moz Local and go, 'Oh, you do exist after all.'" — Daniel Rowles [02:32]
- Insight: While local directory links may not directly affect SEO ranking, they increase perceived trust and legitimacy for users and search engines.

2. Modern Search Results Are Personalized & Contextual

Kelvin’s Perspective:

Google's biggest change isn’t just algorithms, but interface — the introduction of local/map panels, especially with mobile and location data.
- Local intent is context-dependent: Even non-modified search terms (e.g., “hairdresser”) are auto-localized based on user location.
- Myth-busting: There’s no absolute "rank #1" for a term; rankings are personalized.
- Quote:
  
  "It's not like, 'These are websites 1 to 10 for that search query.' The person who makes the search...all that information is personalizing those search results." — Kelvin Newman [06:39]
Incognito mode doesn’t guarantee depersonalized results: IP-based geolocation still heavily influences outcomes.
- Quote:
  
  "Go incognito and you're still going to find jobs to your local location because your IP address is being used." — Daniel Rowles [07:26]
Best Practice: Avoid fake local listings or creating city landing pages for locations where you don’t operate—Google views this as deceptive.
- Quote:
  
  "If you're trying to create post-find PO boxes to get listings in those cities, that's not gonna work." — Kelvin Newman [05:46]

3. Local Listings as 'Trust Hygiene'

Trust Signals Add Up:
- Being listed across reputable directories (e.g., Yelp, FourSquare) doesn’t provide huge SEO benefit per link, but cumulatively signals genuine, established business.
- Quote:
  
  "It's the sum total of all of those links feeds through and adds the benefit, not any one individual thing." — Ciaran Rogers [08:24]
- This is a vital “hygiene factor”—an expected baseline, not a game-changer on its own.

4. The Value and Pitfalls of HTTPS

Google now rewards HTTPS as a ranking factor:
- Small effect individually, but increasingly necessary as e-commerce trust signal.
- Cost/Benefit: For new sites, it’s a must-have; for established sites, migration risks/difficulty can outweigh modest gains.
- Quote:
  
  "If you're e-commerce, you need HTTPS, but...even a normal website, if I was speccing a brand new website from launch tomorrow, I'd include that on the spec." — Kelvin Newman [11:00]
- For mature sites, always weigh technical effort vs. expected SEO gains.

5. Testing SEO Changes before Large-Scale Rollout

A/B Testing for Technical SEO
- Emerging tools (e.g., Distilled's platform) allow technical SEO split-tests by deploying changes to a subset of pages (like using a CDN), mitigating risk and saving IT/development resources.
- Useful for companies with long dev cycles or high-stakes changes.
- Quote:
  
  "If you're a marketer, the danger is...What you really don't want to do is go through that process, then have to roll it back." — Kelvin Newman [14:23]

6. There Is No Universal SEO Solution

Competitive Mindset:
- SEO is about being better than direct competitors, not “beating Google”.
- Techniques must be tailored; what benefits an e-commerce site may not help B2B.
- Quote:
  
  "Google isn't a judge, they're a referee. Right. So they're not judging how good your website is. They're...not, 'You don't beat Google, you know, that's not what you're doing.' What you're doing is, am I doing a better job than my competitors?" — Kelvin Newman [16:57]
- Focus on relative advantage in your niche.

Spotlight: The Brighton SEO Conference

Kelvin Newman shares the story and ethos behind Brighton SEO
[18:46]

Started as an informal meetup in a pub for Brighton’s SEO community.
Growth trajectory: Pub → Larger venues → Now Brighton Centre, with 3,500+ attendees.
Tickets: Originally free, highly demanded (1,700 tickets sold out in 60 seconds!)
- Some paid/VIP tickets still available.
Unique Features:
- Focus on actionable, high-value content over commercialization.
- Day before the main event is dedicated to deep-dive training in niche areas (e.g., App Store Optimization).
- Networking and environment are key strengths.
Quote:
> "The first thing you need to do is help people, right? You need to share stuff...Our ambition is, how do we arrange a physical event where people go away and they don't feel like they've been ripped off..." — Kelvin Newman [21:09]
On Brighton itself:
> "Brighton...the greatest city in the world...It is a great city. It's where we're based. It's a great city to visit, particularly at this time of year when it's sunny and beautiful." — Daniel Rowles [24:00]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On fake local SEO pages:

"If you don't exist in those locations, it's a scam. And just like anything else, Google is potentially going to punish you for doing that." — Daniel Rowles [05:20]
On the competitive nature of SEO:

"You don't beat Google...What you're doing is, am I doing a better job than my competitors?" — Kelvin Newman [16:57]
On the Brighton SEO conference’s philosophy:

"You need to be all about...how do you help people do their job better?...You don't feel like you've been ripped off, you don't feel like you've spent £1,500 on a soggy buffet lunch." — Kelvin Newman [21:09]

Timestamps for Important Segments

[01:21] - The listener’s local SEO question and Daniel’s Moz Local example
[03:30] - Kelvin on Google’s user interface evolution and trust implications
[05:20] - Pitfalls of faking local presence (and Google’s response)
[06:39] - Personalization of search results; there is no absolute ranking
[07:26] - Location personalization even in incognito mode
[08:24] - The cumulative effect of trust signals in local directories
[09:50] - HTTPS as a ranking factor and its pros/cons
[12:56] - Technical SEO A/B testing and how it helps risk mitigation
[16:57] - Framing SEO competition: Better than competitors, not “beating Google”
[18:46] - Origins and philosophy of Brighton SEO
[20:19] - Conference growth, ticket demand, and venue move
[22:41] - Value of deep-dive training and networking at Brighton SEO

Summary Takeaways

Local SEO for online brands is about trust: verify your Google My Business, list in reputable directories, and build real (not fake) local credibility.
Google’s results are fundamentally contextual and personalized—stop chasing a universal “#1 rank.”
HTTPS and directory listings are modern table stakes ('hygiene factors') for trust and discoverability.
Test any major SEO change before wide rollout—tools are making this easier.
In SEO, don’t fixate on beating Google: focus on consistently outdoing your competition.
The Brighton SEO conference embodies the “help first” approach—focused on real value and learning, which fuels its global growth.

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Summary

Podcast Summary: The Digital Marketing Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge: Local SEO for Large Online Brands

2. Modern Search Results Are Personalized & Contextual

3. Local Listings as 'Trust Hygiene'

4. The Value and Pitfalls of HTTPS

5. Testing SEO Changes before Large-Scale Rollout

6. There Is No Universal SEO Solution

Spotlight: The Brighton SEO Conference

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Summary Takeaways

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Digital Marketing Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge: Local SEO for Large Online Brands

2. Modern Search Results Are Personalized & Contextual

3. Local Listings as 'Trust Hygiene'

4. The Value and Pitfalls of HTTPS

5. Testing SEO Changes before Large-Scale Rollout

6. There Is No Universal SEO Solution

Spotlight: The Brighton SEO Conference

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Summary Takeaways