The Digital Marketing Podcast
Episode: Dealing With Exponential Change - Leadership in an AI-Driven World
Host: Daniel Rowles | Guest: Jeff Tuff (Consulting Principal, Deloitte; co-author of "HONE")
Date: January 4, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Daniel Rowles interviews Jeff Tuff about managing exponential change—most notably, the impact of AI—on businesses and leadership. The conversation draws upon Tuff's recent book, "HONE: How Purposeful Leaders Defy Drift," co-authored with Stephen Goldbach. They explore practical strategies for leaders to continually adapt, "bake in" innovation, and avoid the pitfalls of massive, high-risk transformations by focusing on continuous "honing" of organizational systems and behaviors.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Exponential Change (AI at the Forefront)

• Jeff Tuff explains the shift from a world of linear to exponential change, driven heavily by AI's impact:
  • “We are shifting and have been shifting over the course of the last decade from a world that's dominated by linear change to one dominated by exponential change.” (02:20)
• AI represents the most significant exponential force currently affecting all facets of business.

2. Rethinking Transformation: The "HONE" Approach

• "HONE" as an antidote to transformation:
  • Tuff and Goldbach argue that massive organizational transformations usually fail (70% failure rate; possibly higher anecdotally per Deloitte data).
• Instead of waiting for crisis-driven overhauls, organizations should institute ongoing, incremental adjustments.
  • “You don't always have to wait until things are too far off track to move. You can hone instead.” (02:55)

3. Innovation: From "Important, Not Urgent" to Essential

• Traditional bias: The corporate world has often seen maintaining the status quo as "safe" and change as "risky."
  • “Status quo is safe, change is risky. ... But we have shifted to a different type of world...accepting the status quo is actually pretty risky, and change is actually the safe thing to do.” (04:42)
• Key insight: Embedding ("baking in") innovation is now critical to survival.

4. The Concept of Drift and the Power of Course-Correction

• Drift defined: Organizations lose alignment over time due to daily pressures and incremental decisions, creating a growing gap between their current trajectory and original purpose.
  • “...management systems that they use to address those issues over time pile up ... create this great encumbered ship moving through the water.” (07:04)
• Consequence: The need for a drastic transformation arises when leaders finally "pick up their heads" and recognize the misalignment (08:10).

5. The Art of “Honing” vs. “Sharpening”

• Metaphor from the kitchen: Chefs regularly "hone" knives (realign the edge) rather than "sharpen" (remove steel), as sharpening is destructive if done too often.
  • “When you sharpen a knife, you are actually removing steel from the blade... Instead what we do as chefs most of the time is we hone our knives before we cook.” (10:04)
• Application: Organizations should continuously adjust and realign management systems (hone), not wait for drastic overhauls (sharpen/transform).

6. Leadership as System Designers

• Behavioral change is fundamental: No real change happens without behavioral shifts at some level.
  • "Change doesn't happen unless there's a behavioral change somewhere in the value system of an organization." (12:01)
• CEOs/Leaders should act as “chief system designers”:
  • Go beyond vision-setting; get involved in designing and adjusting management systems (formal and informal) that drive desired behaviors (13:22–14:38).

7. Real-World Example: Jeff Bezos and Amazon

• Bezos’s approach to management systems (e.g., mandatory five-page memos) exemplifies hands-on leadership.
• Quote: “He set the tone. He didn't just set the tone, he made it a requirement... led to a culture of being just much more efficient.” (16:51)
• Amazon's API mandates and “try small things” ethos are cited as key systems-driven innovations.

8. Minimally Viable Moves: Continuous Micro-Adjustments

• Term: "Minimally Viable Move" is akin to the product concept, but applied to all management and strategic decisions.
  • “If you can boil what you're trying to do down to the smallest testable hypothesis and just go do it and get some feedback ... then you're never going to get that far off track.” (18:41)
• Pitfall of analysis paralysis: Most companies overanalyze, delay, and miss the mark in fast-moving environments.

9. Management Systems: The Formal and the Informal

• Formal systems (metrics, budget, decision rights) are critical, but...
• Informal systems (executive behaviors, hallway conversations) are often even more powerful and insidious:
  • “...The informal ones in some ways are ... more insidious because they're the ones that people sometimes don't challenge and don't even recognize.” (20:44)
• Real-world example: A leader's informal praise affects the type of innovation pursued by the team, regardless of stated priorities (22:19).
• Magnified misinterpretation: Anecdote about J. Edgar Hoover’s ambiguous memo “Watch the borders” leading to the wrong action underscores how informal cues can misdirect entire organizations (24:02).

10. Practical First Steps for Leaders

• Engage beyond the top: Leaders should directly connect with multiple organizational layers to identify, prioritize, and drive the behaviors that matter.
  • “Get the conversation going about what behaviors matter... that in and of itself will change the way that people look at and think about their business.” (25:54)
• Start with dialogue: Begin prioritizing behaviors, realigning systems, and fostering culture from real engagement, not just top-down mandates.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Exponential Change & Transformation Failing:

  • “Transformations fail almost all the time. Deloitte has some data that shows the transformations fail 70% of the time. Anecdotally, I'd say it's more often than that.” — Jeff Tuff (02:49)

• On Innovation Mindset:

  • “Innovation does threaten the status quo. And we as human beings have a status quo bias. We are loss averse.” — Jeff Tuff (04:35)

• On Drift and Real Purpose:

  • “There's nowhere anywhere close to being on track to the desired, the original desired outcome.” — Jeff Tuff (07:20)

• On Honing vs. Sharpening (the core metaphor):

  • “It's much better to pay attention day in, day out to honing your management systems, which are the tools of the trade of most senior executives in organizations, to stay on track.” — Jeff Tuff (11:31)

• On Leadership as System-Design:

  • “The purpose of management, the purpose of leadership ultimately, is to make sure that one, especially at senior levels of the organization, is exerting the right type of control to drive the right types of behaviors.” — Jeff Tuff (12:11)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:55 – Introduction and context setting
• 01:55–03:49 – Exponential change, transformation, failure statistics
• 04:13–05:50 – Shifts in innovation, status quo bias, urgency of change
• 05:55–08:58 – "Drift" metaphor and how drift sidelines organizations
• 09:00–11:48 – "Honing" metaphor explained (knives/kitchen analogy)
• 11:54–15:18 – Leadership’s role in honing, management systems, behavioral focus
• 15:37–18:11 – Exemplary leaders: Jeff Bezos and management systems at Amazon
• 18:21–20:21 – “Minimally viable moves” concept in leadership/management
• 20:44–25:32 – Formal vs. informal management systems, orthodoxy, behavioral anecdotes
• 25:40–26:52 – Final advice: behavioral focus, engaging across layers, culture change

Actionable Takeaways

• Leaders must shift their mindset: Instead of seeking risky, rare total transformations, adopt continuous honing—incremental adjustments to management systems and behaviors.
• Become a “chief system designer": Get hands-on with the formal and informal drivers of behavior, not just with strategic vision.
• Regularly question orthodoxies and informal behaviors throughout the organization.
• Start by engaging widely to identify and prioritize key behaviors for organizational alignment.

Where to Learn More

• Book: "Hone: How Purposeful Leaders Defy Drift" by Jeff Tuff and Stephen Goldbach
• Connect with Jeff Tuff and Stephen Goldbach on LinkedIn
• Podcast resources and show notes: TargetInternet.com/podcast