The Digital Marketing Podcast

Episode: Get To Know Your Visitors Better
Date: November 11, 2017
Hosts: Ciaran Rogers (A), Daniel Rowles
Guest: Joe, Founder of Shari

Episode Overview

This episode dives into understanding website visitors beyond the numbers—emphasizing the importance of balancing quantitative analytics with qualitative feedback. Guest Joe, an experienced marketer and founder of Shari, shares stories from his career illustrating the necessity of human-centered analytics, offers practical advice on customer insight tools, and explores how to build better buyer personas. The discussion is candid, story-driven, and packed with actionable marketing wisdom.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Analytics: Beyond the Numbers

• Data vs. People
  • Joe warns against reducing customers to mere numbers, cautioning, “You try to reduce everybody down to numbers…there’s a danger that you could begin drawing the wrong conclusions based on maybe not a complete picture.” (02:25)
  • “Nothing beats talking to your customers.” (02:54)
• The Risks of Ivory Tower Thinking
  • Over-reliance on tools like Google Analytics or Kissmetrics can obscure real user intent and struggles.

2. The Underwear Story: Learning from Direct User Feedback

• Qualitative Meets Quantitative Analysis
  • Joe describes a project measuring people’s body dimensions for apparel fittings, which required users to strip to their underwear for accurate data (03:35–06:20).
  • The story highlights the limitations of pure quantitative tools and the need for real-world testing with actual users:
    “For $25 and pizza you can get people to take their clothes off for you. But the bigger takeaway is…it’s not really that hard to get customer feedback. You just have to overcome the resistance to ask.” (06:46)
• People Are “Squishy,” Data Isn’t
  • Apparent anomalies, like users wearing size 32 pants when the scanner says 36, highlight the gap between hard data and user beliefs (07:13).
• Actionable Insight:
  • Incorporate direct customer feedback through intercept surveys, NPS, or conversations between Sales/Support and Marketing.

3. Qualitative Analytics Tools and Usability Insights

• Tools for Deeper Understanding
  • Joe champions tools like FullStory for recording and analyzing real user sessions on websites (08:35):
    “You can actually watch somebody traverse your landing page and…gives you a better picture of where they might be getting stuck.” (08:52)
  • Ciaran shares similar experiences with Hotjar, stressing the difference between aggregate quantitative data and the granular insights from session recordings (09:05–10:20).
• Ethics and User Experience
  • Such tools should be used responsibly and for user benefit; data is usually anonymized—but respect and transparency are key (09:39, 10:20).

4. The Ninja Aptitude Test: Defining Your Audience

• A Memorable Persona Story
  • Joe’s tale about seeking Kendo lessons after watching Star Wars (12:39–16:21) ends with a humorous failed ninja “aptitude test”:
    "In this final act of indignity... this 60-year-old man reaches down, he grabs my arms and legs, lifts me up, and then starts shaking me... I farted in his face." (15:35)
• Marketing Insight: Exclusion Is As Important As Inclusion
  • The martial arts studio owner was clear about who shouldn't be a customer, teaching Joe the importance of focused audience targeting:
    “It’s not just enough to know who your customer is, but it’s also important to know who you don’t want.” (17:19)
  • Avoid diluting your message to try to appeal to everyone—otherwise, you “go down this slippery slope of mediocrity.” (17:32)
• Real-World Example:
  • Department store chain Sears, “stuck in the middle,” demonstrates the downside of vague target markets (18:37).

5. Going Solo: Challenges of Entrepreneurship

• From Large Company to Start-up
  • Leaving corporate life for his own venture (Shari), Joe highlights the hardest part:
    “The biggest challenge is where you focus your attention... you have a tendency to gravitate towards the things that I’m most comfortable doing. But what matters... is the top of the funnel.” (20:08)
  • Joe references the quote: “If you’re not embarrassed by the first iteration of your product, you launch too late.” (20:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Human-Centered Analytics:
  • “We’re talking about people and not numbers... you don’t want to lose the human side of analytics.” —Joe (02:54)
• On Customer Feedback Barriers:
  • “It’s not really that hard to get customer feedback, you just got to overcome the resistance to ask.” —Joe (06:46)
• On Persona Focus:
  • “It’s not just enough to know who your customer is, but it’s also important to know who you don’t want.” —Joe (17:19)
• Entrepreneurial Challenge:
  • “The biggest challenge is where you focus your attention... none of that matters. What matters... is the top of the funnel.” —Joe (20:52)
• Memorable Storytelling:
  • “I did the only thing anybody could do in that situation. I farted in his face.” —Joe, on his ninja test (15:49)

Product Deep-Dive: Shari (Social Media Tool)

What Is Shari?

• Problem to Solution:
  • Joe needed a way to add value to curated content on social media and drive more traffic to his own site (21:49–23:07).
• How It Works:
  • Shari lets you share a distraction-free version of third-party content with a call-to-action. The content is properly attributed, doesn’t infringe on SEO, and doesn’t “co-opt” someone else’s website the way some competitors do (24:03–25:15).
  • Similar in consumption model to Pocket or Flipboard, but with the added marketing call-to-action function.
• Ethics Consideration:
  • Shari attributes original authors, links to the source, and avoids SEO theft—unlike some prior tools (24:03–25:37).

Results and Roadmap

• Proof of Concept:
  • Joe practices what he preaches, using Shari to market Shari:
    “I can’t believe I found you via Twitter…he responded to…the steps of the funnel starting with Twitter.” (26:03)
• Future Plans:
  • Additional analytics, improved workflow integrations (Buffer, HootSuite), and better product-market fit (27:06).

Practical Tools & Recommendations

• Qualitative Analytics: FullStory, Hotjar
• Feedback Tools: Qualaroo, NPS (Net Promoter Score) surveys
• Persona Building: Know who is not your customer as much as who is

Helpful Timestamps

• Analytics and Human Stories (02:25–03:20)
• Underwear Body Scanning Story (03:35–06:46)
• Tools for Qualitative Analysis (08:35–10:20)
• Ninja Persona Story (12:39–17:19)
• Entrepreneurship Insights (20:08–21:49)
• Shari Product Introduction (21:49–24:03)
• Ethics in Curation (24:03–25:37)

Further Resources

• Shari Tool: getsheri.com
• Target Internet (Hosts): targetinternet.com

Summary Recommendation:
This episode is a must-listen for digital marketers interested in bridging the gap between hard analytics and real user experience. You’ll leave with actionable advice on customer insights, a reminder to keep personas sharp and focused, and practical commentary on tool ethics and entrepreneurship.