The Digital Marketing Podcast

Human First Marketing – Why Trust, Purpose and People Matter More Than Ever

Date: January 2, 2026
Hosts: Daniel Rowles & Ciaran Rogers
Guest: Phil Tregus Evans (author of “Human First Marketing”)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the concept of “Human First Marketing”—a strategy focused on trust, authenticity, and genuine human connection as the primary differentiators in an age saturated with AI-generated, homogenized content. Daniel Rowles interviews Phil Tregus Evans, who shares insights from his new book and practical frameworks for building more human-centered marketing in digital-first environments.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Marketing Isn’t Working Like It Used To (03:01)

• Ad Saturation:

  • The average person sees over 360 ads a day, but only remembers about 12.
  • Phil: “You think how much money is being spent on ads that you wouldn’t even remember?” (03:20)

• Trust Deficit:

  • Audiences no longer start from a place of trust; it’s something brands must actively earn.
  • Increased prevalence of AI and synthetic content is eroding trust further—audiences question what is real and authentic.

• AI-Induced Homogenization:

  • As more brands adopt AI, marketing content is beginning to look and sound the same.
  • Phil: “When everything is starting to look and sound the same, things aren’t working as well as they were.” (03:47)

2. Defining Human First Marketing (04:24)

• A Return to the Fundamentals:

  • “Putting people at the heart of the strategy”—customers and team members alike.

• Dual Focus:

  • Deeply understanding and involving customers.
  • Elevating the presence of team members (employee advocacy, exec communications).

• The Four Principles: (05:14)

  • People: Building around real people, not just data points.
  • Authenticity: Prioritizing realness over polished artwork—“the word we all love to hate.”
  • Connection: Focusing on meaningful interactions rather than mere transactions.
  • Purpose:
    • External: Brand’s impact on people/planet.
    • Internal: Acting with intention and strategy, not just posting for the sake of it.

• Quality over Quantity:

  • “If you’re posting just nonsense and for no reason, it doesn’t matter how many times you put it out there, it’s still going to be the same.” (06:56)

3. People Trust People—Not Brands (07:41)

• Statistics:
  • You're now 12x more likely to engage with a person than a brand on social media.
• Social Media’s Origin:
  • “Social media is supposed to be social, not brands broadcasting.” (08:07)
• Real-World Example:
  • LinkedIn’s algorithm strongly favors posts from individuals over company pages: “People trust people over logos and brands.” (08:42)

4. Building Trust and Advocacy (09:05)

• The Power of Advocacy:

  • Employee and executive voices are increasingly vital to building trust online.

• Algorithmic Evolution:

  • Shift in search and content algorithms (like generative engine optimization) to reward genuine, human interactions over brand-speak.

• The Need for Trust:

  • Phil: “When the world is becoming more and more artificial, the trust element is going to be more important than ever.” (09:31)

5. Rethinking Audience Understanding (10:08)

• Beyond Demographics:
  • Phil opposes traditional “customer avatars”—seeing them as “insulting”—and argues they're shallow.
• The EMPATH Framework:
  • E: Emotional Understanding
  • M: Market & Trend Research
  • P: Patterns of Behavior
  • A: Audience Feedback
  • T: Team Feedback
  • H: Human Understanding Map
• Quote:
  • “Understanding our audience as the messy, complicated, but beautiful humans that they are.” (12:50)

6. Authenticity and Team Culture (13:10)

• Employee Advocacy Relies on Genuine Culture:
  • If you fear what employees might say, “you have bigger problems than marketing.” (13:40)
• Great Culture → Great Content:
  • Culture is the foundation for authentic, engaging marketing.
• Lo-fi, Imperfect Content Outperforms:
  • “We were forced...to make slightly lower quality content. But as a result, it felt far more real and authentic...People loved it.” (14:32)
• Building Community through Vulnerability:
  • Phil shared his book-writing journey transparently online, creating a community vested in his success—“That’s authenticity in practice.” (16:41)

7. The Mechanics of Earning Trust (18:04)

• Start with Visibility:
  • Executive leaders should be visible, open, and transparent.
• Building License for Mistakes:
  • Candidly sharing failures (Lego’s sustainability story) breeds respect and resilience:
    • “You’re not just publishing wins; you’re actually saying, look, this is the journey we’re on.” (19:05)
• Be Human, Be Honest:
  • Vulnerability is increasingly valuable: “People are just craving something real that doesn’t make them feel bad about themselves.” (21:39)

8. Counterpoint: The Dangers of Hustle Culture (20:16)

• Not Opposed—but Hazardous:
  • “To be completely frank Daniel, it drove me to anxiety. I struggled with my mental health...Just posting success...the reality as you get older is you realize that no one really knows what they're doing.” (20:47)
• Craving Realism over Polished Perfection:
  • Authentic, imperfect stories resonate more deeply.

9. Leadership Visibility & Its Impact (22:32)

• Leaders Build Trust and Attract Talent:
  • “A leadership’s voice can attract talent, open doors, elevate brand perception.” (23:33)
• Social Media as a Leadership Platform:
  • Leaders who openly praise teams and share company values on platforms like LinkedIn foster both internal and external trust.

10. The Evolving Role of AI in Marketing (24:40)

• AI is a Tool, Not a Replacement:

  • “I’m not anti AI, I’m anti lazy AI.” (25:00)

• Use Cases:

  • Data analysis, organizing, sparring partner for challenging ideas.

• AI-led Homogenization:

  • True competitive edge is now found in human perspective and experience:
  • Phil shares Rick Rubin analogy: “If you had a really good movie script and you gave it to five AIs, you’d end up with five films that are relatively similar. Whereas if you gave the same script to five humans, you’re going to get radically different films.” (26:47)

• Search Algorithms Are Catching Up:

  • Google now emphasizes “experience, expertise, authoritativeness and trust”—rewarding the human element. (27:32)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “When everything’s AI and deep fake, we need to lean into our humanity.” – Daniel quoting Prof. Celia Moore (Imperial College) (00:40, 09:47)
• “Understanding our audience as the messy, complicated, but beautiful humans that they are.” – Phil (12:50)
• “If you don’t have good company culture and values...some of [these approaches] won’t work.” – Phil (13:29)
• “I’m not anti AI, I’m anti lazy AI.” – Phil (25:00)
• “No one can replicate the people in your team, your experiences.” – Phil (26:29)
• “A leadership’s voice can attract talent, open doors, elevate brand perception.” – Phil (23:33)

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [03:01] – Why traditional marketing is broken
• [04:24] – What is Human First Marketing?
• [06:56] – Quality over Quantity; origins of hustle/posting culture
• [08:07] – Why people trust people, not brands
• [10:17] – EMPATH framework introduction
• [13:29] – Authenticity; employee advocacy
• [14:32] – Lo-fi content and realness during the pandemic
• [18:04] – Earning trust in a trust-deficit world
• [20:16] – The dark side of hustle culture
• [22:32] – Leadership visibility and brand strength
• [25:00] – Nuanced approach to AI in marketing
• [26:47] – Rick Rubin analogy: Human creation versus AI

Guest Info & Connect

• Phil Tregus Evans
  • Agency: Giraffe Social (human first marketing specialists)
  • Book: Human First Marketing (Amazon)
  • LinkedIn: Phil Tregus Evans
  • Website: Giraffe Social

Conclusion

Phil and Daniel’s conversation makes a compelling case for prioritizing humanity, trust, realness, and strategic intent in all aspects of digital marketing. As AI becomes ubiquitous, it’s the brands that showcase genuine people, honest stories, purposeful leadership, and authentic interactions that will truly stand out.

For more:
Visit targetinternet.com/podcast for resources, show notes, and recommendations.