The Digital Marketing Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: Mistakes To Avoid When Building Your Business
Hosts: Daniel Rowles & Ciaran Rogers
Date: January 20, 2018
Special Context: Recorded live at GDG Dev Fest, London

Episode Overview

This episode dives into common mistakes and hard-learned lessons from the hosts’ journey in building their digital business, with a special focus on agency models, bootstrapping versus venture capital, cash flow challenges, partnerships, and the practical realities of running a modern, distributed business. The hosts aim to offer actionable tips for entrepreneurs and startups, blending personal anecdotes with digital marketing insights.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lessons from the Agency Model

• Daniel’s experience running digital agencies led to growth and accolades (e.g., appearing in Deloitte Fast 50).
  • The downside: “It just becomes an absolute cash flow nightmare… as soon as you lose a client, you have to lose staff.” (Daniel, 01:26)
  • Management roles can be unsatisfying: “All you end up doing is essentially finance roles and HR meetings and this big dream of getting into these managing director roles and finding. Actually, I didn’t enjoy what I was doing at all.” (Daniel, 01:44)

2. Venture Capital vs. Bootstrapping

• Venture capital can be a double-edged sword:
  • “Don’t get venture capital. Basically what happens is someone just owns you.” (Daniel, 02:56)
  • Venture capital fundraising process was opaque and felt arbitrary.
• Bootstrapping Shift:
  • After a difficult stint with VC-backed business, Daniel decided it was better to grow via cash flow and “build things from cash flow, which has its own kind of challenges as well.” (Daniel, 04:08)
• On exit-focused business building:
  • “If you’re building a business with an exit in mind from the very, very outset, it might be the wrong way of going about it…” (Daniel, 04:51)

Notable Quote

“If you’re passionate about what you’re doing, it will get you through that stuff where actually it’s painful and it’s unpleasant and actually it’s difficult...”—Daniel (05:10)

3. The Distributed Office

• No office? No problem.
  • The company operates with remote staff and periodic meetups: “...we don’t have an office anymore at all. No office whatsoever.” (Daniel, 09:23)
  • Perception shift: “Oh, we’re a distributed company. People love that... That sounds really modern.” (Daniel, 10:06)
• Personal anecdotes:
  • Ciaran works from his garden shed: “There’s six gallons of wine bubbling away alongside my desk as I work... I don’t drink while I’m at work.” (Ciaran, 10:52)

Notable Moment

“We also have something in the office we call Narnia... It’s literally a cupboard... full of soundproofing tiles... I go and sit in a cupboard to record.” (Daniel, 11:29)

4. The Reality of Cash Flow

• Cash flow is existential for startups:
  • “Cash flow will kill you. You can do phenomenally well… and then three or four people decide not to pay you at the same time.” (Daniel, 12:49)
  • Advice: “Do your own one. That is the most pessimistic, depressing cash flow that you could ever possibly do.” (Daniel, 13:30)
• Banking challenges can compound cash shortages:
  • Example: Losing an overdraft with just two days’ notice (Daniel, 14:10)
• Recommended cash reserve:
  • “Our plan was to make sure we had six months of salaries in the bank as quickly as we could to cover these events... one of the wisest moves that we made.” (Ciaran, 15:37)

Notable Quote

“If suddenly you find your business needs to fly to a further destination that you weren’t expecting… if you do that without enough fuel in the tanks, you’re just going to crash and burn.” —Ciaran (15:55)

5. Partnerships & Reputation

• Leveraging partnerships to scale:
  • Early key partnerships were established, sometimes on highly favorable terms for partners, to break into markets (e.g., Chartered Institute of Marketing, Thomson Reuters, McKinsey).
• Overcoming discomfort with networking:
  • “I’m not a good networker... [but] I’ve kind of bullied myself into doing it.” (Daniel, 17:43)
• Benefits of credibility badges:
  • Credentials (“Published author, Imperial College lecturer, CIM Fellow”) make a significant impact. (Daniel, 19:50)
  • Sometimes early work is done at cost or for free to accrue reputable clients: “...we would go in and do the work literally for nothing... It just got us in the door for the next businesses as well.” (Daniel, 20:30)

6. The Power and Utility of the Podcast

• Podcasting as brand-building and networking tool:
  • Initially, the podcast had little audience, took months to grow traction, but now brings major reputation and networking opportunities.
  • “We do it because there was a passion behind it… actually, if you’re passionate about what you’re doing, it will get you through…” (Daniel, 04:51)
  • “As a networking tool, podcasting is incredible… you build a rapport with those people like nothing else…” (Ciaran, 22:07)
• Podcasting as a marketing channel:
  • Drives SEO through backlinks to show notes.
  • “Creating a podcast actually drives huge amounts of links through to the show notes… as an SEO tool... hugely effective.” (Daniel, 23:15)
  • The podcast boosts long-form engagement (“...when you listen to a podcast, you listen for 20 or 30 minutes…”—Daniel, 23:38)

Notable Quote

“I think they [other podcasts] all miss a bit of a trick in that they’re doing it to make money and to monetize it. We’ve never done that with our podcast.”—Ciaran (21:38)

7. Data, Tools & Customer Insight

• Recognize analytics limits:
  • “Analytics and web analytics will get you so far with this, but you’re missing a massive chunk of something…” (Daniel, 24:10)
• Tools for market research:
  • Answer the Public—collects Google/Bing question data for keyword research. (Ciaran, 24:35)
  • Google Trends—helps spot trending topics and capitalize on timely content. (Daniel, 25:17)
  • Brand Watch—a higher-end social media monitoring tool for identifying rising conversations and market opportunities. (Daniel, 25:23)
  • Rapid content deployment as a competitive advantage: “Write a 400 word blog post and get that up onto the website... We’re beating Google, who’s at number three, oddly enough.” (Daniel, 25:44)

Notable Quote

“Be helpful, be helpful. All of this networking relates to that.” —Ciaran (26:30)

8. Focus & Customer-Centric Prioritization

• Time & task management realities:
  • “You’ll have a meeting with the rest of the team and come out with like 80 actions... I’m never going to get all this stuff done.” (Daniel, 26:50)
  • Focus on what directly impacts clients: “...there’s probably fundamentals that you could change that are going to have a much bigger impact on your target audience...” (Daniel, 27:10)

Memorable Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 01:26 | Daniel | "It just becomes an absolute cash flow nightmare…" | | 02:56 | Daniel | "Don’t get venture capital. Basically what happens is someone just owns you." | | 05:10 | Daniel | "If you’re passionate about what you’re doing, it will get you through that stuff where actually it’s painful…" | | 10:52 | Ciaran | "There’s six gallons of wine bubbling away alongside my desk as I work..." | | 12:49 | Daniel | "Cash flow will kill you. You can do phenomenally well… and then three or four people decide not to pay you…" | | 15:55 | Ciaran | "If suddenly you find your business needs to fly to a further destination that you weren’t expecting… if you do that without enough fuel in the tanks, you’re just going to crash and burn." | | 22:07 | Ciaran | "As a networking tool, podcasting is incredible… you build a rapport with those people like nothing else…" | | 23:38 | Daniel | "...when you listen to a podcast, you listen for 20 or 30 minutes…" | | 26:30 | Ciaran | "Be helpful, be helpful. All of this networking relates to that." |

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:08] – Daniel discusses his agency experience and agency model flaws
• [02:56] – The downsides of venture capital and value of bootstrapping
• [09:23] – Why they operate with no physical office
• [12:49] – Cash flow nightmares & planning
• [15:37] – Building up cash reserves for survival
• [17:43] – How partnerships and networking changed their business
• [21:08] – The podcast’s role in business growth & networking
• [23:15] – Podcasting’s SEO and marketing advantages
• [24:35] – Market research tools (“Answer the Public”, Google Trends, Brand Watch)
• [26:30] – Summing up: Prioritization & customer-focus

Concluding Advice

• Be helpful: Prioritizing your clients’ and customers’ needs above over-engineering delivers impact.
• Stay lean and flexible: Bootstrapping and leveraging remote work can help maintain control and adaptability.
• Network & partner strategically: Even if it means discomfort or initial low returns, relationships can be transformative.
• Focus relentlessly on cash flow management.
• Use content and podcasting as tools for authority building, reach, and relationship development.

Final Thought:

“If you focus on the stuff that has the impact on your client and your target audience… that makes the world of difference for us as well.” (Daniel, 27:10)

For listeners:
This episode packs real-world stories, practical strategies, and mindset shifts essential for anyone growing a digital business—delivered with the hosts’ trademark blend of humor, candor, and actionable insights.