The Digital Marketing Podcast

Episode: Regenerative Marketing – The Goose That Thought it was a Chicken!

Hosts: Kieran Rogers & Daniel Rowles
Date: September 4, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the concept of the "regenerative mindset" in marketing, inspired by Kieran’s experiences at a composting toilet workshop set amidst a permaculture paradise. Using anecdotes involving composting, nettles, creative chicken feeding, and a goose named Mr. Duck, the hosts extract profound analogies for digital marketing, leadership, and business strategy. The central theme: learning from natural, interconnected systems to create marketing approaches that are sustainable, efficient, and innovative.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: Embracing the Unusual (00:00–03:00)

• Daniel introduces the episode as “the most Kieran-y” yet, referencing a lengthy, intriguing WhatsApp from Kieran about a goose who thinks it’s a chicken.
• Quote:
  • “I want you to embrace the madness for a moment.” — Daniel Rowles (00:22)

2. Composting Toilet Workshop & Permaculture Philosophy (03:00–05:44)

• Kieran recounts attending a composting toilet workshop at “Horticulture Island,” a self-sustaining retreat built on permaculture principles.
  • Key lesson: The value was less about toilets and more about systems-thinking rooted in nature.
  • Hosts draw parallels between permaculture (working with natural rhythms) and digital marketing (working with digital systems and data).
• Quote:
  • “You are designing systems that work with the natural rhythms of nature … nature works for you rather than against you.” — Kieran Rogers (03:49)

3. Profound Wisdom: "What Don’t I Have to Do?" (05:05–06:37)

• Gavin, the permaculture guide, says:
  • Quote: “I suppose what I’m most interested in is in what I don’t have to do.” — Gavin (as recounted by Kieran Rogers, 05:09)
  • The hosts discuss how this is not laziness, but system elegance—efficiency by design.
• Analogous application: Digital marketers should focus efforts on what brings the most value, and automate or discard the rest.

4. Regenerative Marketing Analogy: Nettles, Chickens, and Hidden Value (07:08–11:29)

• Kieran describes how Gavin turned nettles (an overlooked weed, rich in protein and calcium) into chicken feed by disguising nettle powder in mashed potatoes.
  • Analogy: Marketers often overlook unused data/resources, while always chasing new budgets and leads.
  • “What’s our digital marketing equivalent of mashed potatoes?” (10:11)
• Daniel mentions conversion rate optimization and the use of AI tools to extract more value from existing resources/data.

5. Waste vs. Value: Negative Audiences & Marginal Gains (10:33–12:24)

• Kieran discusses targeting “negative audiences”—people who click but do not convert—and proposes using this “waste data” constructively:
  • Exclusion audiences
  • Reverse lookalikes
• Daniel shares an example of engaging with online critics to convert them into advocates.
  • Quote: “By engaging with those people, I’ve turned some people that are very vocal … into advocates.” — Daniel Rowles (11:59)

6. Creativity, Observation, and the Goose Called Mr. Duck (12:31–16:53)

• Story: Mr. Duck (a goose) was raised by chickens and now acts as a chicken. He serves as an “observation project” to design better, more harmonious systems.
  • “Some things are far more valuable than protein, and knowledge is one of them.”
    — Gavin (as recounted by Kieran Rogers, 14:11)
• Takeaway: Everything doesn’t have to have immediate ROI—experimentation and observation can yield long-term, invaluable insights.

7. Business & Leadership Parallels: Start with What’s Already There (17:05–18:29)

• Kieran stresses the importance of:
  • Observing before acting.
  • Designing for harmony, not just output.
  • Avoiding hasty cuts (e.g., slashing entry-level jobs for short-term gains that hurt long-term talent pipelines).
  • Quote:
    • “Observe first, design for harmony, not just output.” — Kieran Rogers (18:29)

8. Regenerative Thinking Beyond Marketing (19:11–22:31)

• Transforming what is perceived as "waste" (e.g., humanure in composting) into something of high value ("black gold").
  • Large businesses should consider wisdom from “elite performers” in fields like permaculture, not just elite athletes.
  • The true breakthroughs often come from connecting unexpected dots—systems thinking.

9. Mindset Reset: Application to Global Systems (22:42–24:26)

• Permaculture offers a regenerative, observational, and self-sustaining model for business, government, and communities.
  • “It’s not survival in spite of the system… it’s survival because of the systems.” — Kieran Rogers (23:31)
  • Daniel and Kieran encourage marketers to step back, observe, and ask, “What don’t I have to do?” as a route to innovation and efficiency.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|----------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:09 | Gavin (via Kieran) | “I suppose what I’m most interested in is in what I don’t have to do.” | | 09:31 | Kieran Rogers | “That value is really often hidden behind what we overlook and discard.” | | 14:11 | Gavin (via Kieran) | “Some things are far more valuable than protein, and knowledge is one of them.” | | 18:29 | Kieran Rogers | “Observe first, design for harmony, not just output. And in an agentic world, that is massively important.” | | 23:31 | Kieran Rogers | “It’s not survival in spite of the system, which is where I think we’re all at the moment, it’s survival because of the systems.” | | 24:13 | Daniel Rowles | “It’s not just the course that you went on, it’s a mindset reset.” | | 24:26 | Kieran Rogers | “If you observe properly and listen well, you’ll leave with something more valuable than just the course content.” |

Key Takeaways & Practical Applications

• Regenerative marketing means creating systems and strategies that are sustainable, self-reinforcing, and produce value with less intervention.
• Value is often hidden in what is discarded (old data, underused content, “negative audiences”).
• Before chasing new strategies, marketers should “observe first”—optimize, automate, and repurpose what is already working.
• Experimentation and observation—even without a clear commercial objective—can produce powerful long-term results.
• True innovation often comes from crossing disciplines and applying wisdom from unexpected places—like permaculture to marketing.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–03:00: Intro & Kieran’s composting adventure
• 03:00–05:44: Lessons from permaculture, philosophy of systems
• 05:05–06:37: “What don’t I have to do?”—efficiency by design
• 07:08–11:29: Nettles, chickens, and hidden value
• 10:33–12:24: Turning “waste data” into marketing gold, negative audiences
• 12:31–16:53: The goose called Mr. Duck & value of observation
• 17:05–18:29: Leadership, pipeline, and observing before acting
• 19:11–22:31: Regenerative thinking on a broader scale
• 22:42–24:26: Global systems, mindset shift for business
• 24:13–25:09: Mindset reset & the value of outside perspectives

Final Thoughts

The episode closes by inviting feedback from listeners who apply these ideas, with Kieran eager to hear about tangible impacts and even do a follow-up episode. The meta-message: True breakthroughs come when we observe, learn from different worlds, and focus on building regenerative systems—whether in marketing, business, or life.