SEO, GEO and AEO: What You Need To Know

Summary

The Digital Marketing Podcast: SEO, GEO, and AEO - What You Need To Know

Episode Release Date: November 18, 2024
Hosts: Ciaran Rogers, Daniel Rowles, and Louise Crossley
Produced by: Target Internet

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Introduction

In the November 18, 2024 episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, hosts Ciaran Rogers, Daniel Rowles, and Louise Crossley delve into the intricacies of SEO (Search Engine Optimization), GEO (Generative Engine Optimization), and AEO (Answer Engine Optimization). The discussion is sparked by a listener's query, leading the hosts to explore the evolving landscape of search optimization and its implications for digital marketers worldwide.

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Understanding SEO, GEO, and AEO

Ciaran Rogers begins by acknowledging the confusion surrounding the acronyms SEO, GEO, and AEO. He recalls an email from a listener, Brian Foster, who sought clarity on the relationship between GEO and AEO. This prompted the hosts to dissect each term:

• SEO (Search Engine Optimization): The traditional method of optimizing website content to rank higher on search engines like Google and Bing.

• GEO (Generative Engine Optimization): Originally associated with the rise of voice search technologies like Alexa and Siri, GEO focuses on optimizing content for conversational queries and generative AI responses.

• AEO (Answer Engine Optimization): A more specific term referring to optimizing content to provide direct answers to user queries through AI-driven search experiences.

Louise Crossley adds, “[01:32] SEO is obviously search engine optimization, then Geo Generative engine optimization... and answer engine optimization.” This highlights the layered approach required to enhance visibility across various platforms.

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The Overlapping Landscape

Daniel Rowles emphasizes the interconnectedness of SEO, GEO, and AEO, likening them to overlapping circles in a Venn diagram. He explains that while SEO has been the cornerstone for years, GEO and AEO are emerging due to the proliferation of AI-driven search tools.

“At the point of intersection, [02:23] Google’s search generative experience uses AI to answer questions, and understanding how people search through generative AI is crucial.” This underscores the necessity for digital marketers to adapt their strategies to encompass these evolving search mechanisms.

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Shifting Search Behaviors Across Platforms

The hosts discuss a significant shift in where and how users conduct searches. Referencing a chart shared by Neil Patel, Daniel points out that searches are no longer confined to traditional search engines like Google. Platforms such as Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, and TikTok now account for substantial daily search volumes.

Ciaran Rogers notes, “[04:55] Of course social search has become a much bigger thing... We just need to start thinking about SEO slightly differently. Just think about it being everywhere.” This broadens the scope for SEO beyond search engines to include social media platforms and other digital spaces.

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Strategizing Beyond Traditional SEO

Louise Crossley raises a critical perspective on the compartmentalization of SEO, GEO, and AEO. She suggests that instead of segregating these strategies, marketers should adopt a holistic approach focused on the target audience.

Louise:
“[07:20] We've got SEO, GEO, AEO. What we're really talking about here is search engine optimization... acknowledge that where people are searching and the engines they've shifted.”

This approach involves:

1. Understanding the Target Audience: Defining personas, their behaviors, and preferred platforms.
2. Content Creation: Developing high-quality, relevant content that resonates with the audience.
3. Platform-Specific Strategies: Tailoring content and optimization techniques to suit the unique dynamics of each platform.

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The Pitfalls of Chasing Engagement Metrics

The conversation takes a candid turn as Ciaran voices concerns over the industry's obsession with engagement metrics. He argues that the relentless pursuit of attention can lead brands to adopt strategies that may harm their reputation.

Ciaran:
“[10:04] Where's your self-respect as a brand?... There's a flaw where everyone’s chasing engagement for attention's sake.”

He cites the example of brands leveraging viral trends superficially, leading to inauthentic interactions that don’t translate into meaningful customer relationships. This sentiment is echoed by Louise, who highlights the ephemeral nature of such trends and the importance of maintaining brand integrity.

Louise:
“[13:35] Brands are really stretching their brand guidelines because you’ve got really big global brands... it’s a slippery slope if you’re not careful with it.”

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Focusing on What Truly Matters: Paying Customers

Ciaran brings the discussion back to core business metrics, emphasizing that paying customers should be the primary focus over superficial engagement numbers.

Ciaran:
“[15:22] There’s one metric that trumps all this... actual paying customers. There's such a gulf between all this nonsense and paying customers.”

This underscores the importance of aligning digital marketing strategies with tangible business outcomes rather than getting sidetracked by vanity metrics that offer limited long-term value.

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Concluding Insights and Recommendations

In wrapping up, Daniel reiterates the necessity of targeting content effectively:

Daniel:
“[16:00] Optimize for content visibility everywhere... focus on creating content that resonates with your audience rather than chasing fleeting trends.”

He advocates for a balanced approach that combines broad optimization techniques with strategic content creation tailored to the target audience's needs and preferences.

Ciaran also highlights the importance of continuous learning and adaptation, announcing updates to Target Internet memberships and upcoming masterclasses aimed at deepening marketers' understanding of search optimization in the modern digital landscape.

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Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with Ciaran commending Brian Foster for his curiosity, reinforcing the importance of asking questions and seeking clarity in an ever-evolving digital marketing environment.

Ciaran:
“[19:24] Relentless curiosity is a crucial quality for a good digital marketer... respect to Brian for sending in the question.”

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Key Takeaways

1. Holistic Approach to Search Optimization: SEO, GEO, and AEO should be integrated rather than treated as separate entities.
2. Diversified Search Platforms: Recognize the growing importance of social media platforms in search behaviors.
3. Authentic Engagement Over Vanity Metrics: Prioritize meaningful customer interactions and paying customers over superficial engagement statistics.
4. Audience-Centric Strategies: Focus on understanding and targeting the specific needs and preferences of your audience across relevant platforms.
5. Continuous Adaptation: Stay informed and adaptable to leverage new tools and trends effectively without compromising brand integrity.

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For more insights, resources, and to participate in upcoming masterclasses, visit TargetInternet.com.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Digital Marketing Podcast brought to you by targetinternet.com hello and welcome back to the Digital Marketing Podcast. My name is Kieran Rogers.

[B]

I'm Louise Crosslay.

[C]

And I'm Daniel Rolls.

[A]

And today we are discussing SEO, GEO and aeo.

[C]

Okay, so we love a three letter acronym, don't we? So we got an email after we did our generative Engine Optimization episode, which is all about how do you get to the top of chat GPT and search GPT? And we weren't really sure it was properly a thing yet. Kieran has a look of suspicion on his face. Although you didn't, you didn't seem too triggered.

[A]

Yeah, no, I didn't. It didn't trigger me at all.

[C]

So I got an email afterwards and Brian Foster, who was listening to the podcast, had been asked by his teammate or someone that works for him essentially, what's the connection between GEO and aeo? He said, I wasn't really sure I gave a general answer, but it'd be good to know the official answer. So he came to us the official answer, which is unfortunate really, Brian, because I had to Google what AEO was after you asked me the question. I'm glad that you had faith in me that I would know something about this and I didn't. Having googled it, I do know what it's all about.

[A]

So you know Louise and I know, don't we, Louise?

[C]

Did either of you know?

[A]

We did know. You didn't get a memo. Yeah, everyone knows, Daniel. I haven't got, I haven't got a squiggly.

[C]

I really haven't. Okay, so SEO is obviously search engine optimization, then. Geo Generative engine optimization. Well, this actually comes this AEO from a period of time where everyone was telling you, and I think this was kind of like, I think in January you get these trends update reports, digital marketing trends for 2025 and all this kind of stuff. And voice search was becoming more of a thing, right? So everyone was getting their Alexas and their series and those kind of things. And everyone was saying, well, lots of people are searching in these tools and therefore what you need to do is do more conversational type of content. I need to answer questions. So it's answer engine optimization.

[A]

Oh, for goodness sake.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

That's triggered me. How many EOs can we come up with? A few more EIeIo.

[C]

Yeah, right. So. So what's interesting is I always look back at that and when I didn't really understand, I understand the answer engineering, I understand the thing that you Know people are searching with questions more often. But the idea that voice search was connected to this is nonsense. Because if I go to my Siri and say, can you answer me a question? It will say, I'm sorry, I don't know that. Do you want me to look some stuff up on the web? I'll be yes, please. And it says I've got some stuff on the web. And then it will just start reading me some nonsense. It didn't work. It was kind of fundamentally broken. But what I'm interested. I started thinking about this more. So there's, there's completely a Venn diagram here. Okay. And we shall create a Venn diagram to go with this as well. If you look at search optimization, there's a massive overlap with generative engine optimization because a lot of the stuff that Google's been doing for years will essentially be what the generative engines are seeing. They're seeing the content of the website, they're seeing what's showing up in Bing. So there's big, big overlap there. Okay. And we can, we did the whole episode last time and trying to look into that. But the idea of answer engine optimization. Well, we're another Venn diagram here where all three are overlapping from the point of view that actually Google's search generative experience. I don't know how many three letter acronyms we're going to have today. I apologize. Are essentially it is when people ask questions in Google that it's using AI to answer those questions. And actually if you look how people search within generative AI, they tend to put questions in. So that just the reality of this is. Take a step back. Yes, we want to create all the signals that Google wants. But how do you do that? You do that by creating great content. Because that's the stuff that people dwell on. That's the people they scroll to the bottom of. We need to do a keyword research. Well, that counts across all three of these as well because people are, you know, we need to understand how they're searching for things. But fundamentally what we're seeing is more conversational questions, but basically more questions. So this, this idea of understanding the questions that people are searching for more just has become more important as well. So I think in answer to Brian's question, look, there is an overlap between these three things. And AO, I think was always slightly tenuous. It was just saying that more people are searching with questions. But in reality, like we kind of mentioned in the the previous episode, people are searching everywhere now. Quite an incredible stat that we'll put the link into the show. Notes. So Targetinternet.com podcast Neil Patel shared this amazing chart of volume of searches each day and the location that they searches. And it starts with Google, unsurprisingly, 6.5 billion or whatever searches it was a day. The next one down in this chart is Instagram, before YouTube, before any of these other places as well. So obviously social search has become a much bigger thing. But we are searching in so many different places now. You know, LinkedIn was in there really high up, as I said. YouTube was in there. TikTok's obviously in there as well. But Instagram and everything else is kind of much higher. So I think we just need to start thinking about SEO slightly differently. Just think about it being everywhere.

[A]

Can I, can I offer an interesting example?

[C]

So my observation better be interesting now.

[A]

Well, you know, pressure's on, I'm sweating a little bit. But yeah, we'll try. It strikes me that this is a little bit like the whole digital marketing conundrum, right. So you have to take a step back from these, I would say, Brian. So, you know, we've got SEO, we've got geo, we've got aeo. What we're really talking about here is search engine optimization. The fact is search is now a broader category than just, you know, keywords on a, on a given search engine. And that's all we're really talking about here. And actually, do we need to segment everything into these little compartmental spaces? I think not. Because actually there's only so many hours in a day and there's only so much stuff like spinning plates you can keep your eyes on. And I think if you approach it more from a much more, take a step back, take a 10,000 foot view of it. Actually it's all just search engine optimization. We just need to acknowledge that where people are searching and the engines and mechanisms they're using for doing that have shifted. That's the important thing. The bottom line is people are still people, right? And they're still asking questions even though they're doing it in lots of different places. And I think definitely a study, you know, you'll all have a good idea of which platforms are important to you. You know, which platforms tend to congregate. The type of people that buy from you, that's, that's a given. They'll be your most successful channels. And actually those, yeah, a study of how those work, those specific platforms work, definitely worthwhile, right? Because then you, you know, the kind of levers to pull and the buttons to press.

[B]

So we know people are still searching obviously all the time, but the way that people search has obviously changed. So people just don't go straight to Google. Now if they're looking for, you know, maybe the best restaurants to eat at, they'll look on TikTok. If they're looking for something business related, they'll go to LinkedIn. And obviously answer engine optimization is quite specific because when you're talking to your Alex, you're probably just asking quick questions that you want quick answers to. So how would you really know whether it's something that you need to consider or incorporate into your strategy?

[C]

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, it goes back to what Kieran was just saying that. And it's interesting. I was teaching my students at Imperial College about this. Like, when you're given a problem, a digital marketing problem, don't go to channels immediately because that's where your brain goes, oh, we could do this great thing on LinkedIn. It's actually go to the target audience. Right. And what we're trying to align here is our business objective. What does the business want and what does our target audience want? And actually, if I've defined my Personas and I've said, look, these are my different audience groups, these are the channels they use, these are their frustrations, these are their goals, I'm going to get a fairly strong idea of the kind of things that they'll be searching for and how they'll be searching. So if I've got my audience that's, you know, it's a business to consume audience. They, they're young, they're using, you know, a wide range of social media channels. They're looking for things related to food and restaurants. Yes. I'm going to go down the TikTok Instagram kind of route. But realistically, you know, for us, we know that our target audience is marketers and business owners and students, things like that, they're going to search very differently. And actually, I don't care about being in those channels particularly. And one thing we've realized over the years is that you can spread yourself too thin. It used to be like, we'll try and be across all the channels and we'll adapt our content for those channels. Right.

[A]

An omnichannel strategy taken too far.

[C]

Yeah, it was too omni. And it was actually. Well, actually audience spend most of the time in Google, in LinkedIn, maybe a bit on YouTube and they listen to podcasts. I don't need. I mean, Instagram is important to us. To some extent, but the whole TikTok thing, we've kind of let it go just because it doesn't feel like quite the right place for our stuff at the moment. Yes, our audience are there, but they're not there probably to consume the type of content that I wanted to give them.

[A]

And this is the thing, like your audience could totally be there. Your audience probably is in to, to a certain extent on all of these channels. But are they wearing the right hat? Are they in the right vibe? You know, it's that whole thing I was used to say to people, you know, it's great to carry business cards around with you, but, you know, if you're at a family barbecue, don't start handing them out and giving sales presentations and pictures. That's just inappropriate. And I think that's the same with different, different channels. There are certain ways to, to behave. Each of these channels is a certain different type of party, isn't it?

[B]

And I think as well, because, well, hootsuite's social media report just came out and they were saying how brands are loosening up a little bit, so they're adapting their tone of voice because they know that people want to be entertained. So, for example, brands are maybe taking to TikTok and following trends that they wouldn't have, usually because they know that that's how they're going to get engagement. But still, at the end of the day, if you're a B2B company and it doesn't really fit, you don't have to do it just because everyone else is so.

[A]

Well, fundamentally, however, I have to say this, got to get this off my chest. I think there's a, there's a flaw in this. I think everybody's chasing engagement, but they just want attention and that it's got to the stage where they'll get attention for attention's sake because they're measuring metrics that measure attention levels. And here's my point. I can get huge amounts of attention and be extremely brand damaging. I could just be really, really annoying. It's getting attention, right? The metrics are going up, right? Look at my graphs. Right? This is good. I'm taking that to the extreme, Right. Obviously no business would sensibly do that, but I think there's an element of this where we're being gamed by these systems. We know these systems all reward more engagement and we are more and more desperate as brands to get that engagement. And actually look around, look around your feet, you'll see all sorts of businesses where, you know, you end up going, can't believe they did that. Really, you know, and this is, this is. This is the problem with the whole ecosystem in a lot of these sexual channels is that they're rewarding the wrong kind of behavior, I think. And it's. It's just getting a little bit out of hand. And it's like, really, where's your self respect as a brand?

[B]

I don't know if anyone's seen the Gary Barlow's son stuff going on.

[C]

He's only 6 foot 2. I'm taller than him. He's. It just is with this lead, because.

[B]

I mean, there's a picture of Gary Barlow and his family, and so it's him.

[A]

I seen.

[C]

Take.

[A]

Take that. Gary. Gary Barlow. Yeah, we like that.

[B]

It's him, his wife, his daughter and his son on holiday. And he stood next to his son. And the height comparison in the picture is quite wild. He just looks like a giant.

[C]

He just. He looks really big in the picture, right? Poor boy. Quite young. Let's make a point here. Let's make a point. It's gone crazy online, okay? And everyone's making these jokes about how big he is. And so first of all, one thing I'd like to say is that he's quite a young man, so he's probably feeling a little bit self conscious about this now.

[A]

Oh, fella.

[C]

So. So that's not necessarily good. Secondly, he's only 6 foot 2. I'm taller than him. So it's the pro. It's the height comparison that was actually the thing. But so many. Everyone's just piled into it and there's been some really creative stuff and very funny stuff that's been done.

[B]

But it also, like, it is funny for a while, but these sort of things have a very quick sort of death.

[C]

Yeah, the half life is very short.

[A]

I don't find it funny at all. I don't find it funny. I'm six foot three, Lou, and my dad's five foot eight. Yeah, he's kind of young Master Barlow. You have my sympathy. You just ignore them.

[C]

Get over it.

[A]

They're all just, you know, they're just jealous they're not as tall and young as you are.

[B]

But see, it seemed funny when individual people were sort of making memes about it. But then it got to a point where sort of brands were doing videos about it. And like, Guinness had done one saying, when Gary Barlow's son comes in and orders a Guinness, and by the time he picked it up, it was like a little shot of Guinness, but Then it's like, that's almost not funny because you've got to remember that you're still picking on someone's appearance and for a brand involved in that. Right.

[A]

Yeah. But this is the thing they're so like motivated by. Oh, this would be brilliant. This could be the next viral thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, it's just a bit out of hand. It's like no one's actually stopping to think they're in such a rush to, to get the attention while it's still a hot thing. And I just, I despair. I just think it's like, where's your self respect? Where's, where's the control on this? And this is, this is the thing for me. Businesses have relinquished all control on some of their social media activities and it's just because they, oh, we need to be really fast. It needs to be like a guerrilla operation. It's like, really, are we really in a world where things are that desperate?

[C]

Well, I think the problem is as well that if a marketing team are doing stuff and are not seen to be getting great social engagement, great social metrics and it's like, well, why, why are you not doing well at this? You know, you should be jumping on these things like that. I just met the very mindful, very demure thing was one of the worst for this because everyone was doing it and it just like, it was just so completely out of context. But the problem is that these, the half life of these things is a few days normally. And if that's the game, you're constantly chasing your tail with this to some extent as well. And it is off brand. I mean, the big trend at the moment on LinkedIn is the straight to camera. Right. That's the stuff that works because it's authentic. But you've got, brands are really stretching their brand guidelines because you've got really big global brands that, that like, you know, big IT and tech companies and things like that that wouldn't normally be doing this kind of stuff. Their CEO is just there speaking straight to Cameron, talking about our reports coming out and it's like, okay, I can understand the authenticity and the loosening of the brand slightly, but you, it's a slippery slope if you're not careful with it a little bit as well.

[A]

So there's one metric that trumps all this. Yeah. And this is the metric that really matters that you should be actually focusing on. I, I just want to remind everybody about this before they get too carried away with social media metrics. Paying customers that's the metric you want to look at actual paying customers. And there's such a gulf between all this nonsense that's going on and that, like, who is making the effort to try and tie those two together? I don't think anyone is, because it doesn't suit them like it does. It doesn't make the social media team look good if they dig into that, because actually, it's probably not that strong.

[C]

Well, I also think there's. There is this challenge that we spoke about in a previous episode. There's no click world as well, where we're not clicking on the social media stuff, so you can't actually prove the return on investment with that as well. So there's a big chance. But this is the, this is the key point then, right? Okay. So going back to the original question, you are optimizing for content visibility everywhere now across search engines, generative tools, social media. That's important. I think that's something else we need to recognize now, but also I think we need to take that, that step back. If you come up with an amazing creative concept that resonates with your target audience and you create your content around that, that's much better than chasing your tail. About that. My new shy of the latest meme that's just come out, just to pile onto that, to get a little bit of engagement and just be seen as being relevant for that. And the thing I said before, you know, doing digital marketing 2024 is like doing it in 1964 in the fact that actually what you need is go, who's my audience? What's going to resonate with them? Come up with my creative concept, deliver that to the people that I think are, and then hopefully they're going to change their behavior. That's actually going to be more effective if we put some real effort into that rather than spending hours and hours chasing the latest little thing, it's like.

[A]

Hey, guys, that's lovely, but can you just grow up and come up with a good campaign, please, and not piggyback on the latest mem? Because that's just lazy marketing. I've said it now. I'm, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. That's it.

[C]

Mic drop. Walk out the room.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So look, I, I think we've, we've taken a nice question about optimization and turned it into an angry, grumpy rant. But I think there's a very, there's some validity in this. Yeah, the, the optimization piece is really important, but actually getting stuff found in social media, what are People searching for in social media. Is that channel the appropriate place for your content? If it is, by all means brilliant. I mean I, interestingly with the Neil Patel stuff I was just quoting, I went to his LinkedIn to find it. I didn't go to his website to find it. I didn't go to the search engines to find it because I knew the latest stats would be at the top of his feed. So I thought that that's quite an interesting behavior that I haven't really noticed in myself. But that that's the thing. So yes, I think we're, we're optimizing for content everywhere now on this, this is a quick one. We have changed the target Internet memberships. You now get at least one masterclass every month. These the half day online sessions that I'm teaching. So for £20amonth you get half a day with me. I mean what a bargain. Some people would probably pay that not to have to spend half. I can see Kieran's face now.

[A]

We could arrange a payment plan for that.

[C]

So, so we did these masterclasses but we have, we just did one on search optimization and we've got loads coming up on channel chat, GPT, loads of other topics as well. So if you haven't signed up to Target Internet, get over there. If you sign up for a six or 12 monthly membership, you will get access to these master classes. You'll get to spend half day with me every month. But also we are talking about these topics in loads of depth as well, so please do check those out. The other thing is the newsletter. Targetint.com forward/newsletter. We've lots of announcements because we're launching these audio courses. So we are literally after this podcast today we are in the studio recording a search engine optimization audio course. So basically like the podcast, but a full certified CPD accredited course that you can get a certification in as well. So if you fancy that, that'll be launching up in the coming weeks as well.

[A]

And just before we wrap up, I just want to big up Brian Foster one last time. Just because what I love Brian, is you have demonstrated, I think a very important quality for a good digital marketer. And that is relentless curiosity. You're never being afraid to ask the question. I think sometimes all of us are a little bit kind of like, oh, the, the three letter acronyms start flowing and you start hearing them and it's like, oh, I've got a, I've just got a blag. It, I've just got to pretend I know what this is. And actually, that's not the game anymore. Like, marketing's changing so fast. So all, all respect, Brian to you for sending in the question. And please, guys, you know, when you're listening to the podcast, if it prompts questions in your own mind, send them in. Because we love episodes like this. It's really good to answer your questions.

[C]

So thank you everyone for listening to the Digital Marketing podcast and we'll speak to you again soon. For more episodes resources to leave a review or to get in contact, go to targetinternet.com podcast.