The Digital Marketing Podcast

Episode: Vibe Coding – How AI is Revolutionising App Development and Empowering Non-Coders

Hosts: Daniel Rowles & Ciaran Rogers
Date: December 7, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores "Vibe Coding"—a new approach to software development powered by AI—that drastically lowers barriers to app and interactive content creation. Through detailed explanations and a real-world interview with entrepreneur Christo Steiman, the hosts unpack how AI tools empower non-coders and entrepreneurs to build, iterate, and launch apps, from simple one-pagers to complex SaaS products.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What is Vibe Coding? (00:17–04:41)

• Definition: Vibe coding is a method of software development where natural language prompts are used to guide AI in generating code. This shifts focus from manual coding to guiding and refining the AI's output.
• Accessibility: The approach allows virtually anyone—not just developers—to create interactive content and apps.
• Quote:
  • Daniel Rowles: "I think it's really important we're not just using AI to do things quicker, but also that we're doing things better... it opens up lots of new possibilities and opportunities." (00:33)
• Levels of Vibe Coding:
  • Level 1: One-page apps without backends—code generated by AI, embedded into sites like Wix or WordPress.
  • Level 2: Interactive apps with basic backends (e.g., login, memory, or embedding LLMs).
  • Level 3: Fully-featured deployable apps with authentication, databases, and more—tasks traditionally reserved for full stack developers.

2. Level 1: One-Page Apps – Accessibility for All (04:41–06:30)

• Tools Available: ChatGPT-5, Copilot, Claude, Gemini.
• How It Works: By prompting with "create a one page app," these AIs generate HTML, CSS, and potentially React code, which can be previewed, copied, and embedded.
• Security Considerations:
  • Use a second AI to audit code for vulnerabilities.
  • Be mindful of styling/compatibility issues.
• Notable Use Cases: Interactive timelines, maps, idea generators.

3. Level 2: Apps with Backends and AI Integration (06:30–10:06)

• Interactive Features: Logins, persistent memory, in-app LLMs for keyword research or content planning.
• APIs & Platforms:
  • Connecting to AI backends (e.g., ChatGPT) via API keys.
  • Ongoing costs—cheaper than before but still present.
  • Platforms like Manus: can deploy, host, and secure full apps, even handle databases and analytics—content can be embedded via iframes.
• SEO & Accessibility:
  • Embedding iframes is SEO-safe and accessible with proper setup.
  • Example: An embedded interactive Google algorithm timeline ranking #1 for its target phrase.

4. Level 3: Full-Fledged Deployable Apps (10:06–10:39)

• Scope: Anything from custom CRMs to digital strategy tools.
• Requirements: Authentication, security, databases, hosting.
• AI’s Role: Assists with codegen, deployment, and maintenance.
• Interview with an Advanced User: Introduction to Christo Steiman, who utilized Vibe coding to develop and launch a SaaS platform, TradeLead AI.

In-Depth Interview: Christo Steiman, Founder of TradeLead AI

Christo’s Background & Entry into Vibe Coding (10:46–13:11)

• Timeline: Hadn’t heard the term 'Vibe coding' prior, but had already been working in the space.
• Quote:
  • Christo: “For me, it’s basically coding without the fear of coding ... it’s like building Lego when you don’t have the instructions.” (11:01)
• Learning Process:
  • Rapid prototyping, constant iteration.
  • Learning both syntax and best practices by breaking and rebuilding, not through formal programming education.

Breaking Down Barriers and Finding Opportunity (13:11–15:37)

• Background: IT infrastructure (servers, networks, cloud)—no prior app development experience.
• Blocker Overcome: Manual coding requirement previously halted entrepreneurial ideas; AI-enabled platforms removed that roadblock.
• Quote:
  • Christo: "There’s a lot of business problems, a lot of repetition or processes that we can make faster... the barrier has been removed." (14:16)
• First Steps: Using AI to create deployment scripts, inspired by seeing others merge AI with low-code/no-code tools.

Building TradeLead AI – Solving Real Business Problems (16:03–18:16)

• Origins: Identified a pressing need among therapists and service professionals—while receiving a massage, therapist laments lost business due to untimely responses on Instagram DMs.
• First Prototype: AI-driven calendar integration for DMs, scaling up to a multi-tenant SaaS for handling bookings and automated customer response.
• Current Capabilities:
  • Handles queries (pricing, service explanation).
  • Books appointments directly through social channels (Instagram, Facebook, soon WhatsApp, and voice via roadmap).
  • Fully live and operational.

Christo’s Technical Stack Revealed (18:37–21:40)

• Front End:
  • Started with ChatGPT recommendations—settled on React and Vite.
• Authentication: Google Firebase.
• Backend: Azure Serverless Functions & App Functions.
• Database: Started on Cosmos DB (for free tier), migrated to PostgreSQL as complexity grew.
• Delivery/Performance: Azure Front Door for CDN.
• Security: Azure Key Vault for credential storage, VNET integration.
• AI: Multiple OpenAI models, chosen dynamically for cost and task fit.
• Other: WordPress/Divi for marketing site, Google Analytics/Meta, Dynamics 365 CRM.
• Startup Support: Microsoft Startups program provided $5,000 in credits, crucial for affordable experimentation.
• Quote:
  • Christo: "This was a very big enabler for me. Is that Microsoft program..." (21:29)

Lessons Learned from the Trenches (21:59–23:20)

• Don't Overengineer:
  • “Don't spend all that time fixing things that no customer has seen. Build the smallest thing, get real world feedback.” (22:01)
• Be Willing to Pivot:
  • Don’t get attached to specific features; solutions must adapt to market feedback.
• Quote:
  • Christo: “Expect to throw things out ... be prepared to pivot ... let go of things that ... no one wants.” (22:44)

Practical Advice for Aspiring Vibe Coders & Entrepreneurs (23:27–24:42)

• Focus on the Problem:
  • Get as close to the user problem as possible before building.
• Iterate Rapidly:
  • Embrace iteration. Don't be deterred by early failures; use different LLMs for problem-solving breakthroughs.
• Quote:
  • Christo: "Iteration is your friend ... don't be disheartened if it doesn't work early on." (23:44)
• Leverage Multiple Tools:
  • Use ChatGPT, Claude, or others interchangeably for best solutions.

Where Next? (24:56–25:24)

• Project Status: TradeLead AI is live and looking to expand to new markets (e.g., real estate).
• Next Steps: Seeking early seed investment for scaling over the next 18–24 months.

Notable Quotes

• Daniel Rowles (Host):

  • "There’s never been such an opportunity for entrepreneurs to actually launch something ... or at least get a minimal viable product up." (15:37)

• Christo Steiman:

  • “Coding without the fear of coding ... it’s like building Lego when you don’t have the instructions.” (11:01)
  • “The barrier has been removed ... I just totally became hooked because I found problems everywhere.” (14:16)
  • “Get real world feedback ... focus on that problem and just get that problem to customers and get their feedback.” (22:06)
  • “Be prepared to pivot ... let go of things ... no one wants.” (22:44)
  • “Iteration is your friend ... don't be disheartened if it doesn't work early on.” (23:44)

Resource Highlights

• Show notes/Tech stack details: targetinternet.com/podcast
• Vibe Coding Masterclass: Available for Target Internet members.
• One-hour update sessions: For newsletter subscribers.
• Microsoft Startups program: Startup credits for cloud infrastructure—pivotal for MVP development on a budget.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:17–04:41: Introduction & Level 1 of vibe coding
• 04:41–10:06: Deep dive into levels 2 and 3, platform specifics
• 10:39–13:11: Interview start, Christo’s journey into Vibe coding
• 16:03–18:16: Origin story and TradeLead AI explained
• 18:37–21:40: Tech stack breakdown
• 21:59–23:20: Lessons learned & best advice
• 24:56–25:24: Current status and future goals

Overall Tone

Informative but approachable—a mix of technical deep-dives and practical advice, made accessible to non-developers and digital marketers. Christo's interview is candid, inspiring, and gives listeners a roadmap for leveraging AI in their own entrepreneurial or marketing projects.