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The Digital Marketing Podcast
What Is Digital PR?
00:17:56
What is digital PR and does it matter? In this episode of the Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel sits down with Jane Hunt, CEO and Co-Founder of JBH, a digital PR and SEO agency based in Manchester. Jane shares with Daniel invaluable insights into the...
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- [00:00]
Daniel Rolls
Welcome back to the Digital Marketing Podcast. My name's Daniel Rolls, and in this episode, we're talking about digital pr. So what is digital pr? Well, you're about to find out. I'm interviewing Jane Hunt. And Jane founded an agency that actually specializes in digital pr, and that's an agency called jbh, but she also wrote a book on the topic recently. And this idea of using pr, getting people speaking about us in various different places online is really important because it can generate the engagement, the interest. We might not do it as normal forms of content that can have a big impact on our search engine optimization, but actually now, when we're in an incredibly noisy environment, when everyone's just pumping out content using generative AI tools and we're increasingly interested in geo. So that generative engine optimization, getting into ChatGPT and other generative search results, news stories that are attracting lots of attention and interest and engagement and are spread across lots of different websites, have a really good opportunity of helping us to stand out. So thinking about how this makes up part of your marketing mix is really important. And I think if you think about channels pr, or particularly digital PR is not something a lot of marketers immediately think about. But actually, smart search optimizers have been aware of this for years. So I think Jane's got some really good insights into how you can use this approach. You know, using an agency, sure, but just yourself, how do you adopt these kind of tactics? What makes it work, what makes it stand out, and how does that have an impact on search optimization and your content more broadly? So over to the interview with Jane.
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Interviewer
Okay, I am here with Jane. So, Jane, why don't you just start by introducing yourself and then we'll get into the whole digital PR piece a bit more.
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Jane Hunt
Yeah, sure. So, first of all, thank you for having me, Daniel. Yeah, so my name is Jane Hunt. I'm the CEO and co founder of jbh. And JBH is a digital PR and SEO agency based in Manchester. But we have international clients and including B2B and B2C clients. And we specialize in kind of healthcare and personal finance. So that's just a little bit about the agency. And in terms of kind of me, I've been running JBH for just over 11 years now. And when we started out, we were a content agency. And about in 2018, we decided to kind of focus specifically on. On digital pr. And so we made that kind of change. We started again with the team we set up in Manchester. And then, yeah, five years down the line, here we are yeah, so I've.
- [02:56]
Interviewer
Seen on the website you won loads of awards. And what I'm interested in is this digital PR piece. I think there has never been a more important time for this.
- [03:06]
Daniel Rolls
And I've.
- [03:07]
Interviewer
We've been talking about this for a while, on and off. And the factually, the best way of doing link building from an SEO point of view is to. Is pr, because you get those organic links and so on. But also we did an episode last week and we were just talking about this kind of clickless environment when people on social media, they're using social media, they're scrolling through their engagement content, but they're not necessarily actually clicking on it as well. So actually that whole brand building piece awareness, all that different stuff has become ever more important. So give us some context of how you would think about digital pr, what it is, and how it kind of differs from the traditional side of things.
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Jane Hunt
Yeah, sure. So I realized that there's lots of different definitions of what digital PR is out there and different understands understandings, you know, depending on your experience or where you are in the world. But essentially we think of digital PR as kind of the intersection of SEO, content marketing and traditional pr. So digital pr, the objective, the main objective is to build backlinks to support SEO, to improve rankings and organic traffic. But to do that, we're borrowing tactics from traditional PR and we're creating really good quality content to obviously generate that coverage, generate those links, all earned, because we're a hundred percent earned, we never buy any links. We don't believe in that. So it really comes down to the quality of the story, of the angles, what data you have, what other content assets you're putting in front of journalists. And yeah, it's much more kind of about the brand. And so that's why I feel like we borrow from traditional pr, because we're not just building links, we've also got the opportunity to build brand awareness, build brand credibility, and also impact other marketing metrics too.
- [04:53]
Interviewer
So, you know, in traditional pr, you would very much have relationships with journalists and all those different types of people as well. So is that working the same way? Have you, you know, does it rely on you having that, that network of connections as well that are interesting, your stories, or that you're just creating content that's then getting that, that kind of reach automatically?
- [05:12]
Jane Hunt
Both is. Both is the answer. So we do have contacts like traditional PRs would have contacts. And so we're building relationships in the same way, especially for specific sectors like healthcare or personal finance, where data and the quality of the data is so important. So by building those relationships and by putting good quality content in front of journalists, they're coming to us when they've got specific stories to cover, or when they need brand examples, they need comments, whatever it might be. So yes, we're building relationships and they're very useful, but we don't rely solely on them. So we also know that, you know, a lot of digital PR is about kind of building new links as well, building kind of a quantity of them. So you can't just rely on your PR contacts, your existing ones in that respect. So we're putting. So we at jbh, we do kind of a range of activity. Some of it will involve kind of pitching exclusive content, you know, to journalists we have those relationships with. And some of it will be kind of putting together kind of big kind of content led campaigns where we might be targeting kind of new publications, you know, with different angles or whatever it might be. So there's a range of tactics going on that have kind of different results and impact.
- [06:39]
Interviewer
So if we can, I mean, can you give us an example of something that you've done and the kind of approach you took or maybe a couple of different kind of angles on things just to show those different approaches. I think what people are always really interested in is like the actual nitty gritty of the tactics of how you might go about it. So an example is always a good way of bringing that to life.
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Jane Hunt
Yeah, sure. So a really good example of how we kind of blend traditional PR content and SEO together is a campaign we did for an online learning brand called Preply. So we found some great data about kind of the rudest Cities in the UK and we overlaid that with data we got from TripAdvisor. And most of us would expect kind of London to come out as the rarest city in the uk. But actually, the data said it was actually Manchester.
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Interviewer
Okay.
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Jane Hunt
So we then pitched this kind of nationally. Um, it got some, it got some amazing coverage. Of course, Manchester picked it up, London publications picked it up, and then Lad Bible got hold of it. And so they were talking about it and then there was so much debate about it on social media. Most of it, you know, was nice. And it just did phenomenally well, not just in terms of kind of backlinks, but also kind of building the brand with kind of new audiences, generating that social reach. And yeah, it just did very well as a campaign kind of across kind of social brand and SEO.
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Interviewer
I mean, it's a great example because there's that really great creative hook at the heart of the whole thing that, you know, people are going to hook into and talk about. So always the traditional problem with PR was that you'd send out a press release. At the bottom of it, you'd have the footer and it would have the links and stuff in there. And therefore you didn't actually get a link. Many of this stuff as well. So what kind of tactics are you using to try and make sure that you end up getting links back to the websites as well?
- [08:29]
Jane Hunt
Yeah, good question. So what we tend to do is make sure that we've got a really strong pitch in the first place, and we've got some data, we've got expert comment or something genuinely useful for the journalist in order for them to kind of keep that link in there. So we put it towards the top of the email pitch. And then if they do cover it, you know, nine times out of 10, that link stays in there as long as, you know, what we've provided is genuinely useful. Sometimes it turns into a brand mention instead. But we still think that's worth having, both from a brand perspective and an SEO perspective.
- [09:07]
Interviewer
Yeah, I mean, from that, from that SEO perspective, I think the whole eat experience, expertise, authoritativeness and trust, having those brand mentions actually becomes really important as well. So it's obviously helping with that. So how do you think this kind of fits into the overall broader marketing mix? And you're very much seeing it as a kind of standalone channel or something that's kind of different from what we're doing elsewhere. So how does that fit together?
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Jane Hunt
Yeah, definitely. So over the last kind of three years, especially since COVID we've really seen digital PR boom. There's a lot more investment in it, a lot more people know about it. And we know we not only work with SEO managers, we also work with marketing managers, founders, a breadth of kind of roles, really, because so many people realize that it's such an important part of, you know, not just SEO, but also kind of building the brand as well. So we're at a point where I think digital PR is getting kind of good enough to not only be able to benefit SEO, but if we're building brand credibility, building trust, brand recall, and, you know, we're able to do additional things like affect other marketing outcomes, whether it be inquiries, emails, signups, then that's kind of added value. So in that sense, it's not just kind of an SEO tactic. I feel like it's gathering enough kind of strength and value to be its own channel in that respect, yeah, I'm.
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Interviewer
Really interested because we as. Just before we came on this recording, we were just talking and I was saying that we did a, we did a recording last week and we were talking about this no click environment, which is kind of like people are browsing social media, they're not actually clicking. And then you don't know how much it's really contributed because you can't do the attribution modeling. But really we need to take a step back and say, okay, what's actually going to have the impact? And I think it fits in really nicely with that as well. So kind of on that note, how are you measuring impact? Maybe from an SEO perspective or any other way?
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Jane Hunt
Yeah, so from an SEO perspective, we measure kind of the basics in terms of, you know, the link type, whether it's follow, no follow, even though we believe both are valuable because, you know, no follow links is still brand awareness, can still drive referral, traffic, etc. Also brand mentions, we still think they're worth having too. A lot of SEOs might argue with me on that, but we do, you know, there is, there is evidence that they're valuable too, at the moment.
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Interviewer
I agree. I think there's plenty of evidence to.
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Jane Hunt
Prove that as well.
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Interviewer
That's a fair point.
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Jane Hunt
Yeah. So we've got kind of the basic kind of SEO metrics, the domain authority or domain ranking of the website itself, or page ranking. And then so over time, we're looking at the overall impact of the links we're building, and we try and be as strategic as possible. So we try and look at specific keywords or products that brands want to focus on. And that way we're able to show the impact much more quickly on keyword rankings and organic traffic and things. So we're trying to be as strategic as possible with it. So rather than just drive all the links to the homepage where it'd be harder to see the value and how you're having impact, if we're quite specific with it, then we're much more able to show and kind of prove, you know, what digital PR is actually doing.
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Interviewer
And then what about more broadly? So in terms of the metrics for PR and brand awareness, I mean, what metrics or tools are using to measure that kind of success?
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Jane Hunt
Yeah, so for traditional pr, we use kind of the standard tools, you know, so coverage book is one of them. For example, we're looking at kind of reach, you know, the. Whether the target audience is sat behind that publication. From an agency perspective, we're also looking at what that coverage looks like. So basically what's the sentiment of it? Are the key selling phrases included our key stakeholders from the brand in there and kind of what the overall kind of value of that coverage is? And then we kind of score it out of five and that gives us kind of a brand score for that piece of coverage. And then we do the same for SEO and then we get this kind of combined score. And then we're also looking at kind of obviously social reach and engagement, especially for campaigns like Preply, one that did so, so well on social media. So not all of our campaigns lend themselves to social media, but where we can, we want to track that too. Yeah.
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Interviewer
And I was just going to say, with that Preply campaign, when we're talking about the rudest cities and there was all that conversation and debate online about who's rudest and those kind of things, do you then engage in those conversations as well? Do you, or do you let it just kind of run?
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Jane Hunt
No, as an agency, we don't tend to get involved ourselves. But I mean, it just, it went. We didn't need to do anything in that respect. It just went, you know, once Lad Bible picks it up, you know, you know it's going to do well, but you know, there's always the option for the brand to get involved. It depends kind of what the sentiment is, what the topic and how brave they're feeling. I think in that respect.
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Interviewer
Yeah. Do you tend to have those conversations as well? Because obviously with a conversation like that, you know, there's a. There's an element of risk to it.
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Jane Hunt
Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. So a campaign like that is not for everybody. And we'd only obviously put that idea in front of brands that are a lot more risque in that sense and open to that, actually want some of that kind of banter or whatever it is going on. So yeah, you have to have that conversation with brands very early on to find out kind of what are the safe zones and what the no gos.
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Interviewer
And then one thing you've mentioned a few times is the data part of this as well, and those insights. So is there a standard way of kind of gleaning those insights or you're just using a range of different tools?
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Jane Hunt
And recently we, it. It depends where the data comes from to some extent. And we're using all kinds of data sources, but we have to make sure they're credible and that they're recent. So we're not using anything from 2015, for example, any data we're looking at from kind of this year or last year, kind of at the latest. And then it's about what angles we can pull out from the data that we know would be of interest to journalists. Um, and for our campaigns, we like to have a. A variety of data points. So we've got lots of different angles to pitch. So we're not putting all our eggs in one basket with one specific set of data that would only give us one angle to pitch. For example.
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Interviewer
Okay, so I. I've seen that you've done this digital PR Playbook as well, because that was on your social media and on the website and stuff. So give us a bit of insight into that, what that's all about, and then why you did that.
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Jane Hunt
Yeah, so the digital PR Playbook came about. Me and our digital PR director had a chat kind of years ago, and we said, wouldn't it be great if we put together this book? And obviously kind of forgot about it. And then last year had the conversation again, and we're like, right, maybe now's the time. And we did some research and realized that there wasn't, you know, anything in depth about digital PR available. You've got SEO coverage, you've got traditional PR content marketing, but there was nothing substantial for digital pr. So we thought, right, this is an opportunity to put something out there that kind of helps educate people, and that's a resource that people of many different roles can use. And, you know, if you. If you haven't. If you don't know anything about digital pr, you can still pick it up, get an understanding, be like, all right, that's the benefit of that kind of thing. Or if you're a digital pr, there might be additional kind of tactics or insight in there that might be helpful to you, too.
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Interviewer
So where can people get the book and how can people get in contact and how should they kind of follow up with all this?
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Jane Hunt
Good question. So the digital PR Playbook is available on Amazon. You can have a printed copy or you can actually get it via the Kindle too. So both versions are available on Amazon worldwide. And I should have mentioned that this is a team effort. So our senior team all wrote this book. So everyone kind of wrote their own chapter based on their expertise. So it's not just me. It is very much a agency book.
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Interviewer
Perfect. And what about the agency? Where can they get in contact the agency and get in contact with you?
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Jane Hunt
Sure, yeah, you can find us@jbh.co.uk very simple. Or you can obviously track us down on LinkedIn. And yeah, we'd welcome any questions that you might have about Digital Priority or any thoughts as well.
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Interviewer
All right, Jay, thanks so much for joining us on the Digital Marketing podcast.
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Jane Hunt
Thank you so much for having me.
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Interviewer
For more episodes resources to leave a.
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Daniel Rolls
Review or to get in contact, go to targetinternet.com podcast.