The Dinesh D'Souza Podcast – "Culture of Discrimination"

Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Dinesh D'Souza (Salem Podcast Network)
Guest: Daniel Stein (Author of American Dystopia: The Handmaid’s Tale and Puritan History)

Overview

In the final episode before Christmas, Dinesh D’Souza explores three central topics: the historical significance and archaeology of Jesus's birthplace, the emergence of anti-white male discrimination in American society (and recent efforts to address it), and a deep dive with author Daniel Stein into the representations of Puritan history in Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale. The show closes with a philosophical meditation on the nature of reality, perception, and life after death, rooted in Western philosophy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Archaeology of Christmas and the Birth of Jesus (00:32–07:05)

• Transformative Significance of Jesus:

  • Dinesh emphasizes Jesus as the most transformative figure in history.
  • The discussion highlights the moral revolution brought by the Gospels, elevating ordinary people and shifting power away from “the high and mighty."

• The Manger & Archaeology:

  • Explains that Jesus was born in a cave, not a freestanding barn, which aligns with both biblical text and archaeological evidence.
  • "Jesus was born, according to the Bible, in a manger... what's a manger? ...the cattle were generally stored in caves... Jesus was born in a cave in Bethlehem." (03:15)

• Modern Archaeological Confirmation:

  • Mentions Israeli archaeologist Gabriel Barkeh’s affirmation that the traditional birthplace cave is archaeologically plausible.
  • Connects historical investigation with the Christmas spirit.

2. Anti-White Male Discrimination and EEOC Action (07:10–14:50)

• EEOC’s Acknowledgement:

  • Discusses a post by Andrea Lucas, chair of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, signaling renewed federal attention toward discrimination against white males.
  • Reads (paraphrased): “Are you a white male who has experienced discrimination at work?... The EEOC is committed to identifying, attacking and eliminating all race and sex discrimination, including against white male employees and applicants.” (07:35)

• Nature of Discrimination:

  • Dinesh contends that society has systematically discriminated against white males in employment, education, and government contracts.
  • Argues DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) programs often mask continued bias.

• Zero-Sum Game in Representation:

  • "If you are the white male, you are the ultimate target of this discrimination... There are only so many openings... so if you're going to take more blacks and Hispanics, you're going to take fewer whites and Asians... you can't raise the floor without lowering the ceiling." (12:41)

• Legal Recourse and Next Steps:

  • Welcomes explicit agency efforts to redress harms, calling for legal claims and compensation similar to redress for other discrimination victims.
  • "Discrimination should not be cost free. If companies or universities have been discriminating against you, and you can show it... you are entitled to compensation." (14:02)

3. Interview with Daniel Stein: The Handmaid’s Tale and Puritan History (17:39–37:08)

Introduction to Daniel Stein and His Book (17:39–19:13)

• Stein’s book, American Dystopia, critiques the historical basis of Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale using primary sources.
• Stein’s perspective is influenced by his traditional Jewish background and knowledge of biblical/Hebrew text.

Debunking the Handmaid Trope (19:13–25:45)

• Origins of the Handmaid Institution:

  • Stein explains "handmaids" are not biblical, Jewish, or Christian inventions—they’re from ancient Mesopotamia and Hammurabi’s Code.
  • In the Bible, reference to handmaids is either negative or shows gradual rejection of Mesopotamian customs—"Certainly not a precedent... it's something that's banned very explicitly later on. And Christianity... maintained the same attitude towards handmaids. So St. Augustine, St. Ambrose... saw it as adulterous." (24:17-25:14)

• Puritans’ Attitudes:

  • Puritans, as Calvinists, saw fertility as determined by God—using a handmaid to ‘work around’ infertility was considered "blasphemy."
  • "The Puritans repeatedly in their commentaries talk about how they were disgusted with handmaids in the strongest terms." (24:45)

Contrasts with Atwood’s Portrayal of Puritan Society (25:45–35:36)

• Gender Roles and Equality:

  • Puritans have an undeserved reputation for female oppression; contemporaries ridiculed them for permissiveness and female participation.
  • “Their own contemporaries ridiculed the Puritans... for allowing women to preach and having these loud and obnoxious Puritan women who controlled their husbands... It was the most gender-equal society of their time.” (26:57–28:14)

• Salem Witch Trials Reality:

  • The outlier status of Salem, their self-critique, and reparations—ahead of their times compared to Inquisitorial Europe.
  • “What was unique about the Salem witch trials… was the response that followed… the jurors all signed a statement apologizing… Reparations were given…” (29:49–30:24)

• Religious Freedom and Persecution:

  • Puritans were ideologically averse to forced conversions; membership was predestined, not a matter of coercion.
  • “In Puritan society, no one was forcibly converted... When Puritan persecution did take place, it always took the form of expelling people...” (32:01–33:01)

• Church and State Separation:

  • Ministerial office was barred from secular power—contradicting claims of theocracy.
  • “Under Puritan law… if you're a minister, you couldn't hold secular office… no ministers who governed Massachusetts… not a theocracy…” (34:34–35:30)

Stein’s Scholarship and Final Thoughts

• Dinesh compliments Stein’s “intellectual excavation” for offering a detailed, chapter-and-verse critique rather than broad-brush polemics.
• “What you’ve done is… not only [identify Atwood’s] errors… but… you’ve brought out the unexpected aspects of Puritan society and… shown how those aspects aren’t just incidental... They are, you can almost say, theologically compelled not to [persecute].” (35:36)

4. Philosophy: Perception, Reality, and Life After Death (39:58–54:43)

• Arthur Schopenhauer and the Empiricist Challenge:

  • Introduces Schopenhauer and his intellectual lineage, beginning with Kant and tracing to Nietzsche and others.
  • “For at least a couple of centuries, the prevailing philosophical outlook in the West is a sort of empirical realism… that there’s a real world out there and we come to know it objectively through our senses…” (41:41)

• George Berkeley’s Radical Critique:

  • Berkeley: we only know impressions, not things “in themselves”—the “real world” is only inferred, never directly experienced.
  • "All our experience of the world comes through our perceptions… If we really think about it, what do we know? We know those perceptions. That's all that we know." (45:33)

• Metaphysical Implications:

  • Our senses give us only subjective snapshots—there’s no way to “produce that duplicate reality that these impressions are supposed to be impressions of, we are hard pressed to do it.” (51:21–52:02)
  • Hints at next episode’s exploration on how Kant and Schopenhauer build on this, potentially leading to arguments about life after death.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Historical Jesus:
  “With Jesus you find an ordinary fellow, a carpenter... It’s almost like the high and mighty of the world are brought down a notch. The ordinary man, the common citizen, is raised up.” (03:04)

• On Discrimination:
  "If you are the white male, you are the ultimate target of this discrimination. And it’s been going on in college admissions, it’s been going on in the workplace, it’s been going on in federal contracts… It’s really deprived a whole generation of white men of their birthright.” (09:55)

• Daniel Stein on ‘Handmaids’:
  “Handmaids aren’t a biblical institution. They’re not a Jewish institution, not a Christian institution. There's something that existed before the Bible, and you can find it in texts like Hammurabi’s Code…” (20:28)

• On Puritan Gender Roles:
  "It was the most gender-equal society of their time." (28:14)

• On the Salem Witch Trials:
  “They realized that they had done something wrong and persecuted innocent people… the judges all apologized… reparations were given to the families of the victims.” (29:49)

• On Puritan Religious Policy:
  "No one was forcibly converted, because they didn’t believe you could forcibly convert people… Puritan persecution did take place, it always took the form of expelling people." (32:01-32:36)

• On Empiricism and Reality:
  "We have our impressions. Our whole life is these, a collection of these impressions… But if somebody asks us to produce that duplicate reality that these impressions are supposed to be impressions of, we are hard pressed to do it." (51:21)

Timestamps of Main Segments

• Archaeology of Christmas/Jesus’s Birth: 00:32–07:05
• Anti-White Male Discrimination & EEOC News: 07:10–14:50
• Daniel Stein Interview: Handmaid's Tale & Puritanism: 17:39–37:08
• Philosophy: Empiricism and Reality: 39:58–54:43

Takeaways

• D’Souza frames contemporary events and pop culture critiques within both historical and philosophical perspectives.
• The episode challenges dominant narratives about discrimination, Puritan history, and even empirical reality, advocating for a nuanced and evidence-based approach.
• Daniel Stein’s scholarship is highlighted as a corrective to prevalent misconceptions about American religious history.

For more of Daniel Stein’s writing:
Substack: dnstein.substack.com
Book: gryphoneditions.com/products/american-dystopia

Next Episode Preview:
Continuation of the series on philosophy, perception, and life after death.