MODERN DAY PHILISTINES

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dinesh D’Souza Podcast

Episode: MODERN DAY PHILISTINES

Date: September 12, 2025
Host: Dinesh D’Souza (with co-host/wife Debbie)

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Overview

This episode is a somber and reflective Friday roundup co-hosted by Dinesh and Debbie D'Souza. The primary focus is on the legacy and shocking political assassination of Charlie Kirk, the increasing parallels between historical and present-day savagery (particularly Hamas and the Philistines), ideological radicalization on college campuses, the societal consequences of rising extremism, and themes from Dinesh’s new film “The Dragon’s Prophecy” concerning Israel and biblical prophecy. Touchpoints include media coverage, rising violence, test scores, radical Islam in U.S. suburbs, and lighter personal anecdotes to close.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Remembering Charlie Kirk: Legacy and Loss

- Shock and Grief

• Debbie shares the personal impact of Kirk’s assassination and the difficulty sleeping in its aftermath.
• The couple recounts their first meeting with Charlie Kirk at a Freedom Center event in 2017, with humorous “muscle memory” of Dinesh introducing Debbie as "Dixie."
• Dinesh reflects on Charlie’s contribution to Turning Point and his sincere openness and generosity of spirit:
  • “He wasn’t just an activist. He brought a generosity of spirit, an openness to ideas. That’s why I always marvel when people say, ‘Charlie didn’t even go to college.’ … He loved ideas. He loved exchange and debate.” [15:05]

- The Nature of Political Violence

• Debbie describes fear of rising extremism on U.S. campuses and her own discomfort at college speaking events with Dinesh:
  • “These kids are so vile, they’re so evil. I can’t do it. And I didn’t want you to do it anymore…they’re demonic and out of control.” [08:34]
• Dinesh explains limitations of security at events and the chilling specifics of Kirk’s targeted assassination.

- Media Response

• Debbie and Dinesh assess media reactions—CNN’s somber tone versus MSNBC’s more critical take:
  • “The people who poisoned the water are now showing up as a water commissioner.” [18:26]
• Debbie pushes back on calls for gun control, arguing the core problem is “lunatic control. Hate control.” [18:37]

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Radicalization on College Campuses & Cultural Responsibility

- Influence of Professors

• Historical perspective from Dinesh, quoting Lincoln:
  • “Do you expect me to shoot the simple soldier boy who deserts while I cannot touch the wily agitator that induced him to desert?” [06:33]
• Both agree professors are culpable in radicalizing youth.

- Ideological and Demonic Elements

• Both discuss the ideological and ‘demonic’ aspects of radical movements:
  • “There absolutely is an ideological component, and it’s also very demonic. Very demonic.” [13:02]
• Case of Minneapolis trans activist’s satanic self-portrait as an emblem of self-aware evil.

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The Modern Day “Philistines”: Hamas, Israel, and Prophecy

- Analogy Between Ancient and Modern Conflicts

• Dinesh explores a central theme from “The Dragon’s Prophecy”:
  • The recurring struggle between Israel (the Jews) and their enemies (Philistines/Hamas), not as a strict genealogical link, but through tactics, location (Gaza), and spiritual warfare:
    • “The Philistines…settled in what used to be called Philistia…And the Bible says that in Philistia there were four cities…Gaza, which was the main one. And so this is the historical precedent that the Palestinians are now exactly where the Philistines were.” [31:31]
• Debbie clarifies: The film does not argue genetic descent between Philistines and Palestinians.

- Parallels in Violence & Propaganda

• Tactics: Parallels between Philistine arrows, Hamas rockets, and hostage-taking (e.g., the Book of Judges’ Samson and Gaza).
• The film includes graphic footage to illustrate Hamas atrocities, countering narratives that October 7th events were fabricated:
  • “I saw what you did to these people. And not only that, but you saw the video with Arabic music and Arabic subtitles put out by Hamas, by them. They were proud of it.” [36:31–37:00]

- Ideological Chasm and Propaganda

• Post-9/11 and post-October 7th, perpetrators have managed to win the “propaganda battle” by inverting victim and perpetrator roles.
• Dinesh on “moral inversion”:
  • “It’s not just that the left and the right are moving in different directions…there’s a moral inversion. They think we’re the morally twisted; we think they are…How do you move forward on that?” [20:04]

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Radical Islam in American Suburbs: The “Epic City” Case

- Islamic-Exclusive Communities

• Debbie describes the “Epic City” development in Dallas, a Muslim-planned community tied to the East Plano Islamic Center:
  • Non-Muslims can technically live there, but a 75% HOA fee/tax to the mosque “effectively excludes” them:
    • “We announce that when you make you pay your dues…the HOA dues or whatever, we allocate…75% to the mosque. Now, obviously, let’s say you’re non-Muslim…you’re not going to want that.” [45:16–46:07]

- Civil Rights Workarounds

• Dinesh compares this to poll taxes used in the South to disenfranchise black voters—a legal technicality that achieves de facto segregation.

- DOJ’s Response

• DOJ closed an investigation into the development, with developers citing “Islamophobia” as the cause of scrutiny.

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Lighter Moment: Ollie North & Fawn Hall’s Marriage

• Anecdote about Dinesh’s White House years; both he and Ollie North were generalists under Reagan.
• The former Iran-Contra central figures, Ollie North (81) and Fawn Hall (65), secretly wed after reconnecting at North’s wife’s funeral.
• Debbie jokes about men’s tendency to remarry quickly after bereavement, playfully warning Dinesh.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On College Radicalism:

  • Debbie: “These kids are demonic and out of control.” [08:34]
  • Dinesh: “Professors put these young people up to it, and then they retreat into the background and they disappear quietly. But they are also responsible.” [07:22–07:33]

• On Kirk’s Legacy:

  • Dinesh: “The admirable qualities that college should be teaching, Charlie learned not going to college. And all the people who do go to college turn out the exact opposite.” [15:05]

• On Media & Responsibility:

  • Dinesh: "The people who poisoned the water are now showing up as a water commissioner." [18:26]

• On Moral Division:

  • Dinesh: “It’s a battle of good and evil, but they think we’re evil, we think they’re evil. So how do you…when there’s no neutral vocabulary to arbitrate this difference, how do you move forward?” [20:04]

• On Israel & Hamas:

  • Debbie: “The monsters that these people are—to do that to an innocent animal and to do it to innocent children, innocent grandmothers, innocent teenagers…they are Satan’s pawns.” [38:21–38:32]

• On Propaganda Victories:

  • Dinesh: “But the answer is…the reason that they’re able to—they have a massive media network. It’s gigantic funding.” [43:44]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Charlie Kirk Remembrance & Encounter: [01:33–05:24]
• Political Violence and Media Reaction: [05:27–20:04]
• Biblical Analogies: Philistines & Hamas: [27:24–33:59]
• Discussion of Graphic Film Footage: [35:17–38:21]
• Left-wing Israelis and Palestinian Conflict: [38:21–41:29]
• Post-9/11 & Middle East Propaganda: [41:48–44:16]
• Epic City Islamic Community in Dallas: [44:16–47:44]
• Lighter Segment: Ollie North & Fawn Hall Marriage: [47:44–51:38]

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Final Thoughts

• Somber episode bookended by grief for a fallen ally and the perils posed by cultural and ideological radicalism.
• Explores deep divides in American culture and society, with a focus on spiritual dimensions and the cyclical nature of historical conflicts.
• Highlights urgency for moral clarity in public debate and cautions against both demonization and naiveté.

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For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode is both a tribute and a warning—offering a blend of personal experience, historical analysis, and urgent commentary on contemporary crises.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Dinesh D'Souza]

Coming up, Debbie and I here for our Friday roundup. We're going to discuss the legacy of Charlie Kirk, how the savagery of Hamas today resembles the savagery of the Philistines. By the way, this is a theme in our upcoming film, why blue cities seem to like high crime rates, how test scores in America are dropping rapidly, and how Islamic radicals organize the takeover of suburban towns. I hope we get to all that. But hey, if you're watching on YouTube x or rumble, listening on Apple or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel. This is the Dinesh d' Souza podcast.

[Podcast Narrator/Trailer Voice]

America needs this voice. The times are crazy. In a time of confusion, division and lies. We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth. This is the Dinesh d' Souza podcast.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Debbie and I are here, too, in somewhat somber dress, honey. And appropriately so. The shock of the political assassination of Charlie has in no way abated. Debbie has a little sleep device in which you measure your score. And it's normally kind of amusing. I ask you, how did you sleep last night? And you're like, let me check my sleep device. But your sleep device has been giving you a really bad score because you haven't been sleeping that well. And it's because all of this is. I mean, it's not only shocking because we know Charlie, we've known him for some years. And I introduced you to him. I'll let you talk about that in a moment. But in many ways, this strikes pretty close to home and has activated some long standing concerns you have. So we'll get to that. But let's start by talking about. Well, how did we. I knew Charlie a little before I introduced you to him. What year was that? That we. We both saw Charlie?

[Debbie]

I think that that was probably 2017, I want to say.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So the year after we got married.

[Debbie]

I think we had only been married.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

About a year and we went to. Were we at a Turning Point?

[Debbie]

We were not at a Turning Point event. We were at a David Horowitz event.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, all right.

[Debbie]

Freedom center, you know, and. And we were outside and. And, you know, chit chatting with People and, and I see this young, tall, lanky guy walking around and you go, oh, that's Charlie Kirk. Let's go say hi. And I was like, oh, yeah, sure, you know, so we go over there. I had not heard of him. He. I don't think he was that well known then.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

His organization was probably just a few years.

[Debbie]

I'm not even sure. I'm not even sure he had actually started. Started the organization. I'm not sure.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, I think, I think he did. But you're right, it was probably.

[Debbie]

It was in his. It's infancy, I'm sure.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah.

[Debbie]

So anyway, so we go over, over there and you, you know, you proceed to go, hey, Charlie, I want you to meet my wife, Dixie.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And I'm like, talk about a.

[Debbie]

You know, obviously she was your first wife for. And you were married many years, and so you still had that, that muscle memory, I guess.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And so I said to you a couple days ago, well, I guess I did do that a few times. And you're like, no, no, you actually did that more than a few times. I think ultimately you would just roll your eyes. That's how you.

[Debbie]

That's how, that's how I was introduced. And Charlie, Charlie laughed really hard because he knew my name was not Dixie.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

And so I think he was like, oh.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, my most vivid. I would see Charlie off and on. I was not. I was a friend of Charlie, not a close friend, but we did do a bunch of things together. Around 2000 mules. Not only was he, of course, in the film as part of our Salem team, he was of course, there in Mar a Lago.

[Debbie]

Even before that. You spoke at a lot of Turning Point. Turning Point events.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, it was fun for me to go typically to Florida for their big kind of end of the year conference. And I remember you'd be like, I don't know, Dinesh, because remember, his conferences were the days away from Christmas, so it appeared to be like hitting right in the holiday and you'd be a little bit uncertain about it, but I thought, you know what, there's so many young people out there that it's really nice to be able to address them. And that was what Charlie did. Right? He was the midwife. He was like the broker of that kind of get together. And then in mules, of course, he was at Mar a Lago. You pulled out a really nice picture where he's sitting with our family around the table. Eric Metaxas, I think, was also on the table. And you know, just looking back, it's it's kind of hard to believe. Yeah.

[Debbie]

I mean, I was in. I'm still in shock.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, you were bawling, to be honest. And I think it's not just the fact. It's. I mean, look, had he died in a car accident, it would be tragic. Right? It's the way he died and what it says about, about our culture, where we are as a country. I think all of this, the weight of that descends on us and descended on you.

[Debbie]

Yeah. And I've always. I know you. Yesterday, you talked about how you were never afraid to go to college campuses because, you know, kids were kids and they would, they would argue with you, but that was the end of it. Well, I recall a time when I went with you and I didn't like going because, as you know, I've always thought those kids were vile. Always. Yeah, I, I think they, they've been indoctrinated by some very evil professors. And, And I blame them for what's happening in America. I blame every one of those vile professors that indoctrinate our kids with these evil, evil things.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

You know, the. There's a famous. Just to give a little bit of historical perspective, there's a famous statement by L. Where a prominent Northern Democrat named Vallandigham was arrested by the Union Army. And he said, why are you arresting me? I'm merely exercising my free speech. And Lincoln said, well, you're encouraging soldiers to desert. Right. Desert the army. And Lincoln said, and this is Lincoln's line that I'm quoting here. He said, do you expect me to shoot the simple soldier boy who deserts while I cannot touch the wily agitator that induced him to desert.

[Debbie]

That's right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So what Lincoln is getting at is what you're saying. The professors put these young people up to it, and then they retreat into the background and they disappear quietly.

[Debbie]

Exactly.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

But they are also responsible.

[Debbie]

They are. And so when I went with you to Michigan State and that vile, demonic kid comes out of the crowd and starts yelling at you.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

And saying all kinds of nasty things to you.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, the f. You and get out.

[Debbie]

Of my country and all those things, the mother hen in me or the mama bear in me, I turn around and I let him have it with words again.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

And I was super embarrassed because that's not. Not who I am. That's not me. I, I don't do that. But after that event, I, I. You remember that every time you would go speak at a college, I would cringe. I would beg for you to me.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I Think just yesterday, maybe even this morning, you said, you know, oh, if that kid had a knife or a gun, he was so out of control that there is no telling. So in other words, you're saying that it was already getting really bad.

[Debbie]

Yes, it was. And I felt it. And you know, it wasn't just at his, at that university, it was others that I'd go with you. And I was like, I can't go with you anymore. Do you remember that? I said, I cannot do this anymore because these kids are so vile, they're so evil. I can't do it. And I didn't want you to do it anymore. And I thank God that you're not doing it anymore. I know people want you to speak at college campuses and you're always getting asked to do it, but please, please, I beg you, do not do it. These kids are demonic and out of control.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, the thing about what happened with Charlie is that he had security. Right, but what does security mean? It's not the same security that say Trump has or JD Pants. They're not going to go beforehand and scope out all the windows and all the roofs. What they do is they're there, they're looking around, particularly right around Charlie, to make sure nobody like, charges him or, or draws a weapon. They are not, in a way, equipped for someone who is, let's just say, a professional shot at 200 yards away with a long rifle.

[Debbie]

Well, this was, this was, the weapon was a bolt action rifle. They are known to be extremely accurate. He really didn't have to be that skilled to be able to use it with the scope and, you know, the accuracy of it. He had to be proficient, but not a sniper like I had thought envisioned.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Because you're saying because of the telescopic sight.

[Debbie]

Yeah, and it's just a really, it's a, it's a hard rifle, it's a, you know, very heavy rifle. And, and, and well, it's used really to kill deer and animals and whatnot. So, you know, but again, back to, back to, to the, the fear that I have of these college campuses and of what they, what they breed, these college campuses. And we talked about the very, very hot topic items that these kids go really bonkers over, and that's abortion, Israel and trans.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah.

[Debbie]

And so, so I, and, and Charlie has actually been very vocal about Islam as well, by the way.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yes.

[Debbie]

So I was like, you know, it could be that too, but I don't think that that's the case.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

In this case.

[Debbie]

In this case.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, look, here Is here Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. I'm going to quote him. We're in a war right now to save this country. And so you have to be willing to do whatever is necessary in order to save the country. Now, on the face of it, you could say he's just calling for political registration. Greater. But look at the language. You have to be willing to do whatever. And now imagine an individual who is twisted, disturbed. And what is this going to say to that person?

[Debbie]

Well, look at, look at the guy, the Italian guy that killed the insurance.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Mangione, the health care officials.

[Debbie]

Look at what he did, thinking he was doing something good for the public good.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right?

[Debbie]

Right. Indoctrinated. Crazy. Crazy.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I mean, look crazy at a certain level. But then let's look at, you know, let's look at John Wilkes Booth, who was a confederate. He had served in the military. He plotted the assassination of not just Lincoln, but the Vice President Stanton, the Secretary of State. Was he crazy? Yes, but he also was crazy with a political motive. He knew exactly what he was doing. He had a very specific goal. He thought that the assassination of Lincoln would revive the south, would create a new front in the Civil War. So those are rational motives. And when you talk about these professors, it's not like they are. I mean, look, I think with the trans people, they take drugs, so there could be the external influence of medication that is taking confused people and making them even more bonkers than they are. But there's also this ideological element to it which cannot be ignored.

[Debbie]

There absolutely is an ideological component and it's also very demonic. Very demonic.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And so you remember the trans guy in Minneapolis at the Catholic school and he drew a picture of himself looking in the mirror and who's looking back?

[Debbie]

Satan.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

A demon. Yeah, absolutely a demon. So he recognized that he was entering the realm of the satanic and of the demonic. The left pretends like, oh, none of the. He's just making a drawing. No, he was, in a way, and he was ruthlessly, in a way, self aware in saying things like, I'm not really a woman. He goes, I have long hair. That's the only part of me that's quote trans. He knew, I'm not really trans. I'm just a messed up, sick, demented, angry kid.

[Debbie]

Yeah, well, where we have unfortunately found.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Ourselves in a situation, honey, we haven't found ourselves. This whole thing has been fostered.

[Debbie]

Yeah, I know.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

There's a medical industry behind it. There's an educational propaganda industry. Therapists make a very good living off of this media Pundits trumpet it been cultivated. I guess that's what I'm saying. Let's talk a little bit on a little different note about what Charlie accomplished in his very short life. I mean, 31 years. Right. And yet he. He did a lot, right? This young man did a lot. And so we have to. We have to pay tribute to his life. Honey, I think that this is a guy who. He. He wasn't just an activist. He brought a generosity of spirit, an openness to ideas. That's why I always marvel when people say, well, Charlie didn't even go to college. But, you know, the weird thing is he was the most. He was the guy who loved ideas. He loved exchange and debate. He treated his opponents in a civil manner. And all of that, all the admirable qualities that college should be teaching, Charlie learned not going to college. And all the people, or so many of them, who do go to college turn out the exact opposite. They're automatons. They're ideological robots. They don't respect differences of opinion. And the more elite college, the worse it is, right?

[Debbie]

Yes. Yes.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah.

[Debbie]

And, you know, I'm just. I just ache for his family, for his wife, Erica, and his two babies.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, I know. I know. Well, I read a little bit.

[Debbie]

Parents.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah.

[Debbie]

His parents can't even imagine.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah. I mean, you know, that his. His daughter. Where's Daddy? How do you answer that? Like, there's no answer to that question. It's so difficult to carry that burden. And his wife is very young. And look, there's going to be a lot of public recognition. I'm sure there's going to be a big memorial and all that, but at some level, it's like, what does all that matter? You know? Because what's going to happen is all that will pass, and then, like, real life comes right back in at you, and you're like, guess what? I got to get through the next month and the next year and the rest of my life.

[Debbie]

And the babies will grow.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They'll grow up.

[Debbie]

Charlie won't be there to see them graduate. He won't see them get married.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

None of that. None of that. And also, again, coming back to the fact that this was a targeted. I mean, you and I were talking about how this is not a mass shooting. This is actually very different than Butler. In Butler, that guy was happy to spray bullets in the crowd. Right. This is not the same as a guy going into a Catholic school or Audrey Hale and where they are out to just. I'm gonna take as many. I want to go out, and I'm gonna take as many people with me. This guy had no intention of being caught. He was actually pretty nimble at getting away from the scene of the crime, and his goal was Charlie and Charlie alone. Yeah, right.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Entirely targeted attack.

[Debbie]

But, you know, again, I. I go back to the professors and the media, you know, as. As we were watching. Because you wanted to watch CNN when it happened, Right. You wanted to see what they were going to say.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yep.

[Debbie]

And they were pretty somber about it.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Jake Tapper, we saw. And, and who was he talking to?

[Debbie]

You know, the guy you. The guy you always say is. Looks really old. I forget his name. The bald guy.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, Brian Stelta.

[Debbie]

Yes. Yes. Sorry.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, wow.

[Debbie]

But anyway, yeah, they were talking and, and, and apparently they were, you know, talking about Charlie's legacy and all of those things, and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what am I hearing here? You know, these people have been egging this on for a decade. At least.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

The people who poisoned the water are now showing up.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

As a water commissioner.

[Debbie]

Oh, you know, what. What's happened?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

But, you know, even that is better. MSNBC went full vile on this.

[Debbie]

Yeah. And you know, the other thing, too, that, that I've seen on social media is people saying, see, gun control. Gun control. I'm like, no, lunatic control. Hate control.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, that's good. Gun control nonsense is absolutely going nowhere in this case.

[Debbie]

But that is what the left wants it. That's where they want it to go. They want it to go there. Unfortunately, no matter how many guns you control, you cannot control the hatred of these people, the vileness of these people, the evil of these people. Look at that guy that killed Irina. He killed her with a knife, Right. He didn't kill her with a gun.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

No, his.

[Debbie]

You know, so, again, these things happen even without a gun. But. But they happen because. Because our society is kind of boiling these people to a, like, a level that I.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Turning up the temperature on them.

[Debbie]

They. They completely are. And. And then they feel it justified. Because if you've seen some of the comments that some of these crazy people have made is. Is that, you know, it was a good thing. No, I don't care what side you're on, you can never say that killing someone for what they thought is a good thing. Regardless.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I was on the Ami Kozak podcast yesterday, and I was saying that the reason this is so difficult to reconcile, to heal, to move beyond, is because it's not just that the left and the right are moving in different directions. It's not just that we are going to Maine and they want to go to Chicago. It is that what we think is right, they think is wrong, and what they think is right, we think is wrong. So there's a moral inversion. They think that we are the morally twisted. We think they are morally twisted. This creates an impasse, right, because it's almost like we both agree that it's a battle of good and evil, but they think we're evil, we think they're evil. So how do you. When there's no neutral vocabulary to arbitrate this difference, how do you move forward on that?

[Debbie]

Well, who got killed? A follower of Jesus Christ. So who's evil?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right. The left is trying to even the scales by saying, what about the killing of the two Democrats? But no, the killing of the two Democrats was not done by a conservative. This is a big lie that the left is putting out right now, and it's particularly bad time to do it because we are no mood to hear it and is coming at a time when we know better. So we're not gonna fall for this kind of nonsense. That was a Tim Waltz appointee. And in some ways, I admit he was completely bonkers. But to the degree that he had a politics, he was allied with Tim Waltz. In fact, apparently part of motivation in his own crazed mind is he wanted to find a way to get Tim Walls to get back into the. To get into the Senate to take Amy Klobuchar's seat, if you remember. Let's talk about Dennis Prager, because I was touched to see that Dennis, who is another story. We haven't actually talked about Dennis. And this is maybe a good time to do a little bit about Dennis. Poor Dennis Prager has. This is now, a little while ago, eight months ago. Eight months ago, had an absolutely horrific accident. He fell in the shower. He severely damaged his head and spine, spinal cord. He has been largely paralyzed. He has been. He's alive, but he has been in a way confined, bedridden, unable to really move most of his body, and in general, struggling to hold on and most.

[Debbie]

Importantly, breathe on his own.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

He breathe on his own. We are close to Dennis and close to Prager, you and close to the Dennis Prager show. And so we get updates about Dennis, But Dennis, in his condition, came out to say that Charlie visited him, came out to say that as a committed Jew, I thank God regularly that a non Jew committed Christian became one of the few great public spokesmen on behalf of Israel, the Jewish communities outside of Israel. Few Jews could match Charlie's knowledge and eloquent arguments on behalf of those entities. And he goes on to talk about Charlie's love for the Jewish people. Charlie apparently was talking about how Christians should pay some respects to Jewish Shabbat. By the way, all of this is now more close to us than ever because of our connection with Israel. We are actually leaving tomorrow to go to Israel. We're leaving on Shabbat Saturday. We get there, you know, we'll get there Sunday. But I found it very poignant to see Dennis, who has been silent for months, in a sense, has had no voice. He found his voice, which tells you how strongly he felt about this and how, how galvanized he was about it. So I think it's a measure of tribute to Charlie Kirk that he would, that he would do that. Most people over 62 have tens of thousands of dollars in home equity, but that wealth is only paper value unless you sell or take out a mortgage. And traditional mortgages require monthly payments. Movement Mortgage offers a home equity conversion mortgage, often called a reverse mortgage, where payments are optional. These FHA insured mortgages can be one of the best ways to increase cash flow and maybe decrease taxes in retirement. Even if your home value drops or you live past 100, you're never required to make monthly payments in. If you remain in the house and keep up with taxes and insurance, you will pass on all the equity you didn't use to your heirs. Yet millions think that these home mortgages, these reverse mortgages, are risky or only for desperate homeowners? No. Find out the whole story from Movement Mortgage. They will send you a free book. It's called Home Equity and Reverse, the Cinderella of the Baby Boomer Retirement. Go to movement.comdinesh or you can call 580-reverse. That's 580-738-3773 and MLS. Id 39179 Mike Lindell tells me a major retail chain just canceled a big order, leaving MyPillow with an overstock of classic mypillows. But hey, their loss is your gain. For a limited time, MyPillow is offering the entire classic collection. A true wholesale prices get a standard MyPillow for just $17.98. Haven't seen it that low. Upgrade to queen size $22.98, king size $24.98. Snag body pillows for $29.98 and versatile multi use pillows for just $9.98. Plus when you order over $75, you get $100 in free digital gifts. No strings Attached. That's right. Premium pillows at unbeatable prices. And bonus gifts to top it off. So don't wait. Call 800-876-0227. That's 800-876-0227. Or you can go to mypillow.com don't forget the promo code. D I N-E-Dinesh. Grab your standard MyPillow for just $17.98. While supplies last.

[Podcast Narrator/Trailer Voice]

Is the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, the revival of an ancient conflict recorded in the Bible. The nation of Israel is a resurrected nation. What if there was going to be a resurrection of another people, an enemy? People of Israel? Dinesh d' Souza went into a war zone to make his new film. It offers a new way to understand October 7th. Israel, radical Islam, anti Semitism and biblical prophecy. Could the fate of the world, of humanity itself, be tied to this place?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

We came back to a land that was largely barren and empty, and we brought it back to life. And we're good to keep it.

[Podcast Narrator/Trailer Voice]

The Dragon's prophecy isn't just about the Middle East. It's about you.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Because without that Jewish foundation, there is no Christianity.

[Podcast Narrator/Trailer Voice]

Based on Jonathan Cahn's international bestseller. In theaters October 6th and 8th. Streaming and DVDs available October 9th. Get the film at the dragons prophecyfilm.com this film contains graphic violence. Of. October 7th.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, let's talk about.

[Debbie]

And speaking of, of. You know, I've had this, like. I don't know if it's like a premonition or I don't really know what. But, you know, a couple weeks ago, you. You were talking about doing a premiere, right? For. For the movie.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

And I just. Something in my spirit just said, we cannot do a premiere. I said, you don't understand how vile these people are and how dangerous they are. I don't want any of us shot. I don't want to take that risk. I just didn't think it was worth it. And, you know, we left it at that. And we're not having a premiere. But yesterday, you know, one of the people involved said, debbie, I kept thinking about what you said.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, you were kind of. I won't say on your own, but you were. You were the most passionate in arguing that, look, this is a serious security issue, because as coming back, this Palestine, like, the trans issue is one of those issues on which people lose their minds. And it so happens that we have a film on this topic and we are now off to Israel. Let's talk about one of the themes that is in the film, what we're trying to do here, and I talked to Ami about this yesterday, is he said, look, you know, this debate is so raw over Israel, over Palestine. And I said, well, we're trying to raise the level of it. And we're trying to raise the level of it by helping people to see differently, not just get bogged down into the normal cliches. You know, the Jews control America, genocide, from the river to the sea, colonialism. And one of the themes that is raised by Jonathan Cahn, I think it's one of the original twists of the movie, is he argues that the battle between the Jews and the Palestinians is a replay, is a recreation. He calls it a resurrection of an ancient battle or series of battles between the Israelites or the Jews and the Philistines. The Philistines. And Khan, when he makes these analogies, he doesn't just make them in a suggestive way. He goes into it and he says that the similarities, first of all, the name Philistine and the name Palestine are the same. You hear it better in the Arabic, where they actually sound identical. But it's not a matter of just the name. It's also a matter of the tactics, the strategies. Khan draws out a beautiful analogy between what happened to Samson, who represents the force, and the strength of Israel. He is taken captive. He is yanked to Gaza. So Khan says he's the first hostage of Gaza. And right away, I think the. I think the sky's open at this point, and you begin to see the events of October 7, the events in the Middle east, even now, the continuing war in a larger perspective.

[Debbie]

Right, right. Well, I don't want the Jewish people, the Jews to think that we're making an analogy of the Philistines being the same people, descendants or the Palestinians being descendants of the Philistines, because I think they lose kind of the. What we're trying to say here.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, One or two people have raised that with us, and I think it's a legitimate issue. And of course, Khan does not say that. He's not making a genetic argument. Right. So let's talk about the Philistines. The Philistines were. Are described by historians and archaeologists as the Sea peoples. And what sea? The Mediterranean.

[Debbie]

Mediterranean people, yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Where did they come from? The Bible implies that they come from Crete or Cyprus. And the Bible is right. They are an Aegean or European people. They come from that part of the world, which is Greece, Cyprus. And what happened is they moved basically toward Canaan, the old Israel, and they also moved down toward Egypt. The sea peoples had battles with the pharaohs and then they settled in what is called what used to be called Philistia. And the Bible says that in Philistia there were four cities. There was Ekron, there was Gath, there was Ashkelon in the fourth, Gaza, Gaza, which was the main one. And so this is the historical precedent that the, the Palestinians are now exactly where the Philistines were. They fight like the Philistines. They, the Philistines use. The Philistines, they said, used rockets or really arrows that came out of the sky. Hamas came out of the sky in gliders on October 7th.

[Debbie]

And they also, they also shoot rockets out of the sky as well.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And they also shoot rockets, which is.

[Debbie]

One of the reasons why, why Israel had to respond with the, with the Iron Dome. I mean, this is the reason that Israel has to have an Iron Dome, because everybody shoots rockets at them. I mean, it's just, it's crazy. But the one thing that is the same is the evil one, right?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I think this is the point, and that is that the, the theme of the film is that there's a world behind the world. And that the primordial battle between God and Satan, which started not just at the beginning of the world. We forget that God and Satan fought in the very beginning, long before the Garden of Eden, long before the fall. This battle has been raging for all eternity, ever since the original fall. I mean the fall of the devil, not the fall of man. And what we're saying is that we're living through events that are playing out of this struggle, but not only that, of this struggle as it is foretold in the Bible. This is the hint of biblical prophecy. We don't do too much of the biblical like, entrail reading of what's going to come first and what's going to come next.

[Debbie]

It's because we don't know.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

We don't know and we can't know, and we're not supposed to know, but we are supposed to be alert for certain spiritual and even physical or historical landmarks. And that's what we point to, guys. We're talking about the dragon's prophecy, the website, by the way, the dragonsprophecyfilm.com so the dragons, plural, the dragonsprophecyfilm dot com you can go on right now. You can order DVDs, you can sign up for streaming. So do it. The streaming opens up on October 9th. You'll get your DVD in your mailbox on October 9th if you want to watch it in the theater. October 6th. October 8th. And those movie tickets are going to go up for sale probably toward the end. Well, maybe the middle of next week. So be patient. Check out the website. You can sign up, by the way, now for email updates and we'll update you. Let's keep talking about this. We also wanted to talk a little bit about some of the graphic footage in the film. You wanted to say something about why? Well, you and I have been on our film team insistent that some of this footage, not even the most gruesome, which you've seen it all, but enough to convey what really happened.

[Debbie]

Yeah, I feel that unless, you know, and again, everybody's different. You know, your level of, you know, your level of, like, not being able to see something is different with. For everybody, right? For me, because I. I wanted to go into medicine. I can see that kind of thing, and it doesn't affect me that way. Obviously, when I saw the footage that Hamas put out, the live streams that they put out, the videos, the photos, all those things, I. I couldn't sleep for. For nights. I mean, I just, you know, it was just so horrible. But it was horrible. Not in the fact that I was grossed out by it, but because of the evil and depravity of it that. That really caused my soul to just, like, you know, stir. I wanted that same level of, like, foreboding. Foreboding for people to see it. Because again, I would go on social media and the. And I would see some of these, These Palestinian sympathizers, Hamas sympathizers, say that these were lies. I was like, these were not lies. I saw it with my own eyes. I saw what you did to these people.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And not only that, but you saw the video with Arabic music and Arabic subtitles put out by Hamas, by them. They were proud of it. Absolutely. And they were certainly, in a way, Hamas speaks, as the Bible says, with a fork in tongue. Because in their own communities, they're like, look what we did. We're the greatest. We celebrate. And. And then elsewhere, what. What. What do we do? That's us. No, no, no. That's all propaganda and lies.

[Debbie]

And it. What they put out is propaganda and lies.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And.

[Debbie]

And I saw this and I. And that's why when. When we were doing this movie and I suggested, as I remember, we were. We were having breakfast, the four of us, you know, and. And I said, well, we need. I have a lot of footage and we need to put it in there. They're like, no, we can't show that.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

People will walk out. Yeah, Now I will say what we have done, which I think is, is worked very well, is the footage is, is shown with restraint. It's tasteful, it gives you enough that it puts you on the scene. But it's not just. It's not like a horror movie. It's not a gross out. On the contrary, it's like, wow, this is what really happened. I've never seen it before. In some ways, I liken it to 2000 mules. Right? People know bad things happened, we put them at the scene, we go see for yourself.

[Debbie]

But this is, this is obviously the emotional.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right, the emotional thrust is different. This is graphic imagery.

[Debbie]

Not to mention the fact that they do kill a dog and, and we do show it.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, but look, I mean, I, I do not sympathize with people who say things like, you know, yeah, I can put up with the brutality against women and children and, but, but the dog. Please don't, please do. You know, we do show it because it's what happened. In some ways, it just symbolizes to me the callousness of it, the horror of the gratuitousness of it.

[Debbie]

The monsters that these people are. To do that to an innocent animal and to do it to innocent children, innocent grandmothers, innocent teenagers.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

The fact that these people are so vile and they are Satan's pawns. They are. There is. It's 100%. They're Satan's pawns.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

One of the little details that a lot of people don't know is that right down there near Gaza, those kibbutzes right over there are very socialist, they're very left wing, they're very anti Netanyahu, for the most part.

[Debbie]

Anti capitalist.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Anti capitalist. And so they were formed out of this kind of communitarian, socialist ideology when the state of Israel was first created. Not only that, but the Nova festival, as you and I got closer to it, we were at the Nova fairgrounds and we're looking at really the pictures of all the young people who were killed at Nova. They're all bohemians, you know what I mean? They're like six. They're hippie ish. So again, this is not the right wing. This is not Netanyahu.

[Debbie]

Very much so.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And in some ways, I think this has. What has shut down and shut up the Israeli left. The Israeli left was very anti Netanyahu. Very similar to the left over here, by the way, very anti Trump. And yet what's going on in Israel is that that left has made peace with Netanyahu. Think of how unimaginable it is for the left to make peace with Donald Trump. But that's happened in Israel. Why? Because I think the left saw that its own people, who would have been the first people to affirm Palestinian rights, call for a two party state, call for giving land for peace. Those people got slaughtered.

[Debbie]

They were butchered. And it didn't matter.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It made no difference.

[Debbie]

It didn't matter. And this is what I always said about Islam and radical Islam and the left that aligns with them. It's like, you guys are so dumb. Do you really think that when it's all said and done, you're going to be okay, spared by these people?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

No, no, they will, they will climb over you to get to power and then they will do with you the same as they would do with the rest of us.

[Debbie]

Well, you know, I saw a video the other day about a queer for Palestine. Okay. And, and this guy comes up to this woman because she's like, queers for Palestine, all that stuff. And he goes, do you realize. And this. And he was a, he was a trans or a transvestite or whatever. He goes, he goes, why are you for Palestine? Well, because. And he goes, do you know what Palestinian men would do to us if they saw us right now? She had no idea. He goes, oh yeah, we're not even allowed in their society. We would get killed immediately. So again, the assumption that these people are somehow going to be spared by these like crazy radicals is, is insane. I mean, it really is.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

No, it's true. All right, let's move on. We've got a couple more topics we're going to try to hit in the time that we have, we have left. What do you want to talk about next?

[Debbie]

Yeah, so, well, I kind of wanted to talk about the, our test scores, but I'm going to skip that for now because I want to talk, continue talking about Muslims.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah.

[Debbie]

And of course yesterday was 9 11, which was 24 years ago.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

That America lost its innocence. They had no idea what radical Islam meant or was. And so a lot of people woke up 24 years ago to this.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They did. And yet if we look back, let's. To a kind of a post mortem. And I think in some ways it's not wrong to compare 911 to October 7th. Right. October 7th was like Israel's 9 11. And in both cases we have seen something remarkable. The perpetrators of those deeds in both cases have largely won the propaganda battle which you would never have thought possible. Right. You have these absolutely monstrous, barbaric attacks. No One could say a word in defense of them in the immediate aftermath. And yet over time, think of it, it happened a different way. In the case of October 7, it is. It is genocide, it is civilians. It is. So that's the rhetoric in 9 11, it was different. You remember what it was? Islamophobia.

[Debbie]

Oh, absolutely.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So in other words, the rhetoric was that you, who have been hit on 9 11.

[Debbie]

It still is, honey.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It still is.

[Debbie]

24 years later.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

No, that's my point. 24 years later, it's still like, listen, we're gonna bomb you, but you need to be on your guard, not us. We don't have to tame the monsters on our side who are doing it. You need to restrain your impulses against Islamophobia. That's the real enemy here. I mean, how you pull this rabbit out of a hat in terms of. But the answer is the reason that they're able to. They have a massive media network.

[Debbie]

That's right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It's gigantic funding. That's right. Think of all the oil rich Muslim countries putting money into all this. They endow chairs at universities and departments. A lot of universities are taking money through the back door. Media institutions are getting paid. The influence of Qatar, all of this, I think is something that the general public is not very well aware of. Even though there's been pretty good report reporting laying out the process by which this money trail buys influence.

[Debbie]

That's right. And more recently, so, so you've. I think everybody by now has heard of Epic City community in Dallas. That it?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

But tell again what it is.

[Debbie]

So it's tied to the East Plano Islamic center, and basically it's a community built for Muslims. Now apparently there's, there's this, like some of these Muslims are saying, oh no, no, no, no, it, it's not just for Muslims. I mean, anyone can live in this community. Christians can live here, Jews can.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They kind of have to say that, by the way, because of fair housing laws, civil rights laws.

[Debbie]

They can't say. However, however, there's a caveat, right? There would be a 75% tax imposed on them that would go to the Islamic center or the mosque. Right? So if you live in this community, you have to give your money to Islam.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So you have a guy and he is. You played this for me. He was, I don't know if he was on a radio show or some sort of podcast, but he, this is what he says. He says, listen, in order to conform to the laws, we cannot reserve this for only Muslims. He goes, but we figured that one out. This is the part that I think he's very cunning and he sort of takes a lot of pleasure in saying, this is how we keep the non Muslims out. We announce that when you make you pay your dues, the HOA dues or whatever, we allocate 3, 4, 75% to the mosque. Now, obviously, let's say you're non Muslim. You're not going to want that to happen. You're like, wait a minute. So you're going to say, I'm not going to live in that community. So what happens is, even though by default you achieve an exclusively Muslim community, which was their goal.

[Debbie]

Exactly.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So their point was, how do we get around? How do we get around the civil rights laws? And by the way, it's very, very reminiscent in the old south when they wanted to prevent blacks from, say, voting, right? They couldn't say blacks can't vote. So here's what they would say. We are going to impose a poll.

[Debbie]

Tax that they couldn't afford, Right?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So the poll tax is going to be, let's say in those days, a dollar. You're a black guy working for 25 cents an hour. Do you want to give four hours of your work just to be able to vote? So most of the blacks would be like, okay, well, I guess we won't vote. We don't want to pay. We can't pay a dollar. So this was a ruse to get around the fact that they couldn't. The Democrats in the south straightforwardly outlaw blacks from. Say the same thing is going on here.

[Debbie]

So let me read this. This is, this is the ap. This was back in May, I believe, but it says the U.S. department of justice has closed a federal civil rights investigation into the Muslim centered planned community around one of the state's largest mosques near Dallas without filing any charges or lawsuits. The Justice Department that opened up the investigation after Senator John Cornyn called for it, arguing that the development could discriminate against Christians and Jews. So the developers of the proposed Epic City community tied to the East Plano Islamic center have complained that they are being bullied by multiple federal and state investigations because they are Muslim Islamophobia. That's right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Once again. Once again, Honey, we just have a couple of minutes. I thought we should close on a little. This has been a rather heavy. Not just podcast, but last couple of days and you've shown it yourself today. Let's close out on a somewhat lighter note, which is you saw in a recent article that our friend, our longtime friend, I've Known him actually for over 30 years. Not only that, but we're talking, by the way, about Ali north, who used to work in the White House for Reagan. I don't know if I ever told you, but, you know, if you look at the work chart of the White House, you have the President, then you have the National Security Advisor and you have the Domestic Policy Advisor who's called the dpa. The Domestic Policy Advisor was my boss, and the National Security Advisor, John Poindexter, was Ollie North's boss. So Ollie north and I were the exact same equivalents in the White House of each other.

[Debbie]

Foreign and domestic.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Foreign and domestic. And in fact, we were both the generalists. In other words, there are other people who are specialists in certain types of warfare in domestic policy, people who are specialists in tax policy. But I was the generalist on the team in Ollie Nord. So I don't remember when I first met Ollie North. I didn't meet him when I was in the White House. It must have been. Must have been later. And you remember the famous Ollie north hearing. You were very young. I was young too.

[Debbie]

I was young, but I was very much into the. I watched the whole hearing, the Iran Contra hearing. I watched it. I came home and like, I was just like fixated on, on, on the, the whole thing.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And some people, not all, will remember that his secretary was Fawn.

[Debbie]

Fawn Hall.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, yes, A very dedicated and loyal Reaganite. Also very devoted to him. And we find out now, fast forwarding all these decades. Right, and by the way, it's in fairness, we should say Ollie Nort's wife died.

[Debbie]

She passed away.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Fawn hall was married. She had a husband. He passed away. In no way are we implying, in fact, the contrary, that there was any hanky panky going on between the two of them, but they have decided at a very ripe age. How old is Ollie north now?

[Debbie]

Yeah, so apparently he's 81 and she's 65.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And they have decided to tie the knot.

[Debbie]

No, I think they already tied the knot. They secretly tied the knot.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They secretly tied the knot.

[Debbie]

They met at his wife's funeral or they reconnected at his wife's funeral. And to that I say, what?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

No, you. You have a theory which you always tell me and I have to, like, groan when I hear it. Your theory is that the, the members of the male sex are incapable of continuing their life.

[Debbie]

I don't know what it is. I don't know.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

We know more than one case where, where we have had it, had a wife pass away this. We're not even talking about divorce. But. But in. In two cases that we know quite well, one of them involving someone. We're not naming anybody, of course, but in both cases, a very quick. I mean, almost alarmingly quick remarriage. Now, that is not the.

[Debbie]

In.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Within the case of Ollie north, the.

[Debbie]

I mean, they met at the funeral.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They met at the funeral. But when was the funeral?

[Debbie]

December.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It was December. Okay.

[Debbie]

But I'm just saying that's pretty quick, if you ask me.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Pretty quick. Pretty quick. But look, it's. It's. It's all on the up and up.

[Debbie]

And what did I say if you did that?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, yeah. Debbie's like, listen, Dinesh, be on notice if you try that kind of thing. I'm going to be haunting you. Talk about life after death, honey. Since we both believe in it, I guess I got to take these. Haunting. If I was an atheist, I'd be like, haunt me all you like, because it's just in your imagination. But, no, I think the haunting is going to be quite real. And so, message noted.

[Debbie]

Thank you.

[Podcast Narrator/Trailer Voice]

Subscribe to the Dinesh d' Souza podcast on Apple, Google, and Spotify, or Watch on Rumble, YouTube and SalemNow. Com.