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- [00:01]
AARP Announcer
November is National Family Caregivers Month. One in four Americans is stepping up to help older loved ones with everything from meals to bills. Family caregivers spend thousands out of their own pockets each year, and too many have to quit their jobs to keep providing care. Working families can't afford to wait. It's time to care for America's caregivers. Learn more@aarp.org CareForCareGivers paid for by AARP.
- [00:35]
Dinesh D'Souza (Podcast Intro/Outro)
Is the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, the revival of an ancient conflict recorded in the Bible.
- [00:42]
Eric Stackelbeck
The nation of Israel is a resurrected nation. What if there was going to be a resurrection of another people, an enemy people of Israel?
- [00:51]
Dinesh D'Souza (Podcast Intro/Outro)
The Dragon's prophecy in theaters October 6th and 8th streaming and DVDs available October 9th. Get the film at the Dragons Prophecy.
- [00:58]
Dinesh D'Souza
Film.Com Coming up, it's going to be a heck of a show today. I am going to talk about the film, which is now plunged in the center of a big raging social media debate with many different components. It involves Tucker and Candace. It involves things that Netanyahu said on the podcast yesterday. It also involves Trump's peace plan. So all of that's going to be covered in and then Eric Stackelbeck, Eric Stackelbeck, who is at TBN News, he's an expert on terrorism. He is someone that I interview in the Dragon's Prophecy. He's going to be joining me and we're going to be talking about all these subjects and more. Hey, if you're watching on X or YouTube or rumble or if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel. Hit the subscribe the Follow the Notifications button. That would be really great. I appreciate it. This is the Dinesh d' Souza podcast.
- [02:03]
Dinesh D'Souza (Podcast Intro/Outro)
America needs this voice. The times are crazy. In a time of confusion, division and lies. We need a brave voice of reason, understanding and truth. This is the Dinesh d' Souza podcast.
- [02:16]
Dinesh D'Souza
Best well, guys, I've got to say that there is a frenetic debate, a fierce debate raging on social media and our film, the Dragon's Prophecy and and me in particular, well, we're right in the middle of it when I released the film and as it got ready to go to theaters. By the way, tonight is the last day you can see it in the theater. So if you can possibly see it in the theater, do it. It's wonderful. We're getting all kinds of feedback from people about how emotionally and spiritually powerful the experience is, particularly seeing it with like minded people and in that kind of spectacular Theatrical setting. How do you see it in the theater? Well, you go to the website thedragonsprophecyfilm.com get it right, it's the dragons plural, prophecy, P R O P H E C Y film. Don't forget the film dot com, put in your zip code, it'll tell you where it's playing. And go watch. Take your family, take your friends. Now I realize for some people it's far. It's 30 miles, it's 45 miles. If you can't do it, I understand. Or even if you prefer to watch at home, no problem. Tomorrow the film is available in streaming and it's available in dvd. And you order the streaming. You sign up for the DVDs at thedragonsprophecyfilm.com the two main platforms for the film for streaming are going to be Rumble and Salem. Now on the website you can access Salem Now. Rumble is going to be promoting the film heavily and also it'll be available for like pay per view on Rumble. All right. Well, when you make a film like this and when we made this film, it was not as timely as it is now. It is not only extremely timely, but as I say, I find myself hurled into the middle of a big debate. I was trending on X all day yesterday. I'm trending on X all day today on two separate issues. In fact, I was trending this morning because of clips that are being posted from the Netanyahu full interview. There's about four or five minutes of Netanyahu in the film, but I did about 30 to 35 minutes with Netanyahu one on one. That was the main body of my podcast yesterday. All kinds of big influences have been cutting and clipping and sharing it. And I'll come to some of the substance of the clips and some of the issues being debated in a moment. But I just got off, in fact, recording a very fiery exchange with Cenk Uyghur. This is the guy from the Young Turks, and it was on the Piers Morgan Show, I think that uploads. Well, it uploads today. I'm not sure exactly what time, but the topic was the Trump peace plan. So I'll start by talking a little bit about the Trump peace plan and then I want to talk about some of these other issues concerning Netanyahu and also other other things. The Trump peace plan, in my view, is a really good plan. It is not easy to come up with a plan that is even remotely acceptable to Israel, let alone to the Palestinian side. It is a plan that Hamas, which is in fact in control of Gaza. Hamas is still the de facto force, political force in Gaza. They've been that since 2005, when Hamas was elected by the Palestinian people. They've got to sign on. And their signing on is, as far as I can see to this point, tentative. It's like, yeah, we agree to a hostage deal, but on the other hand, there are lots of other sort of I's that needed to be dotted and T's that need to be crossed. Now, Hamas is not exactly in a very good bargaining position here.
- [06:18]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Why?
- [06:19]
Dinesh D'Souza
Number one, because their bosses in Qatar have already kind of agreed to the deal. You have other major Arab countries and major players in the Middle east like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, the Gulf kingdoms and even Qatar have. They're basically okay with it. So this, I think, reflects the strategic ingenuity of Trump and also the way that Trump kind of comes at this with a entirely different angle. The previous presidents have always tried to come at this in a sort of political way by trying to find a politically acceptable middle ground. This was the Carter peace plan, which involved Anwar Sadat, later the Clinton plan. There have just been almost innumerable plans that have all essentially gone to largely to dust. In fact, I can't see any measurable progress that any of these plans have made. And certainly the UN has been completely useless. But what Trump has done is, I think he came on it with his real estate hat on. Trump's view is, listen, I see, I look at Gaza, I see total rubble, broken buildings. It's basically like Dresden after World War II. At least a lot of it, not all of it. Some of Gaza is quite intact. When we were filming at the Gaza border, you can see a Gaza skyline, whereas you wouldn't see much of a Dresden or a Hamburg skyline after World War II. But nevertheless, there has been obviously considerable destruction. Destruction in an effort to root out Hamas, which embeds itself within, within the population. But the point here being that Trump is looking at this rubble and I think as a real estate guy, he's like, why? This is a nice location. You know, real estate. Location, location, location. I see, I'm talking now in Trump, in Trump language. I see buildings. I see maybe a Trump Tower, maybe a Trump Hotel, maybe a Trump Golf course. Certainly people in suits going to work and high tech firms and business deals and nice lunches outdoors and prosperity and a better world for your children. So I think what Trump is saying is, I'm going to try to give these people who are habituated to blood and warfare. Let me give them a fork in the road. Let me give them another chance. Let me give them a way out. Now, that way out cannot involve Hamas remaining in political authority in Gaza. They forfeited that right. And so, in a rather generous spirit, Trump is like, all right, I'm going to offer these Hamas guys they can get out. They're going to have safe passage. Their political power is going to be reduced to zero, and a new international authority is going to be established here. Now, is this going to work? I would say my feeling about it is hopeful rather than optimistic. There's a key difference between hopeful and optimistic. Hopeful means I hope it happens. I wish it all the best. Optimistic means I think it's going to happen. So optimistic involves a kind of forecast for what will happen. Hopeful is more of a prescription for what ought to happen. And it could be that the people in Gaza, I don't just mean Hamas, I mean the Palestinians themselves, I mean the actual residents of Gaza, they might be too twisted. They might have too much ptsd. They might be too indoctrinated. They might actually, as some of their own people say, love blood. They prefer death to life. And look, if that is all the case, they might reject it. They might say, I don't want a fork in the road. We want to stay on the path we are.
- [10:08]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Now.
- [10:09]
Dinesh D'Souza
It seems utterly bizarre, perhaps to you and to me, but look, it seems also bizarre to you and me that people in democratic cities like, or at least endure high crime rates. They endure all these illegals swarming their society. They still vote for the people who produce those things. So there is an inexplicable aspect to why people would do things that seem to make their own lives more miserable. But they do this all the time. Unhappy people do this to themselves all the time. So for this reason, I wouldn't place, like, poly market bets on the prospects of the peace plan, even though I support it. Israel, I'm sure it's a little bit of a bitter pill for Israel in certain ways. Think of it. They're giving up these hardened terrorists in exchange for helpless civilians. They're giving basically a Hamas fighter, releasing him from prison in exchange for some grandmother or for Omri Miran, who's the husband of Leshai Miran, who is interviewed by me in the Dragon's Prophecy. So I'm sure Israel is like, why? You know, how is it fair for us to make this exchange? Well, it's actually not, but it is part of what happens when you have a guy like Trump, who is essentially saying, enough. Who's essentially saying, I want to see this shut down. And Israel listens to Trump. This is very important because there are so many people and some on the right who think that it's the other way around, that Trump listens to Israel, that Trump is being dictated to by Israel, that somehow Netanyahu controls Trump. And Debbie and I have talked about this a bunch of times and it's just downright absurd. Israel is a country with what, 11 million Jews? Can a country of 11 million control a country of 340, of 350 million? That's unlikely. Let's add to this the fact that the United States has a vastly greater GDP and gnp, the United States has a vastly greater military force. I mean, this is basically, this is basically analogous to saying that the two year old or the seven year old is controlling the college student. I mean, it's theoretically possible through some ruse, but in reality it is kind of absurd on the face of it. And certainly it's quite easy for the college student to say, enough, I'm now going to be telling you what to do. And that is exactly what appears to be happening in this case. Trump is telling Israel not to do. Netanyahu is not telling Trump telling Trump what to do.
- [12:46]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
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- [15:31]
Dinesh D'Souza
Let'S talk about Netanyahu, because I think that there was a great deal of very interesting stuff in the podcast yesterday. The full podcast, the full Netanyahu interview. Interview. And by the way, pretty much unedited. You know, there's no this is the way it was. This was the actual conversation. Now, I plucked some choice lines from it for the movie, but while the podcast has what, 35 minutes of Netanyahu, the movie has maybe four, maybe four and a half at the most. And but there was a good bit of stuff in the podcast that was new, released for the first time yesterday. And as I say, not in the film, Netanyahu is talking about the Jewishness of Jesus, which is fascinating because there are people on the left who claim Jesus was a Palestinian. The ludicrousness of that, that somehow claiming that Jesus sort of wasn't Jewish, that he was a Palestinian. First of all, there were no Palestinians. There, in fact, really never have been. Palestine is a sort of figment of the imagination. There were Philistines, but they're not the same people as the Palestinians. The Philistines, by the way, lived in Philistia, which is now the Gaza Strip. And the Bible tells us there are five cities in Philistia. I don't Know if I can name them all. There's Gath, there's Ashdod, there's Ashkelon. I'm trying, I'm missing one. And then the fifth one is Gaza. Gaza. So but the Philistines were Europeans, they were from Cyprus, they were from the Aegean. So this is not the same people and they're not native is what I'm getting at. To Gaza. I think it is really interesting that Netanyahu embraced Jesus as a Jew. He's not embracing Jesus theologically, he's embracing Jesus, I would say culturally and historically. But again, I'm not even sure he would have done that 10 years ago or 20 years ago. It shows the way in which Israel is recognizing the importance of Christians and the importance of Christian support. Another key point that Netanyahu made, and I'm actually highlighting the points that are being amplified by big influencers now on social media. But big influencers who are both on the pro and the anti Israel side. Sometimes these influencers are sharing these clips as if they're self evidently outrageous or self evidently absurd. In one case, Netanyahu is talking about the fact that while Israel is faulted for civilian casualties, like casualties that outnumber the number of people who were victimized on October 7, Netanyahu makes the point that the United States has never looked at it that way before. And for example, when the Japanese bombed Pearl harbor, there were a relatively small number of civilians killed. It was actually a military attack. The United States didn't say, all right, well they killed 340 civilians. And so we're going to have some air raids on Japan and we're going to make sure that we don't kill any more than that or keep the number roughly connected to 340. But after that, to quote Megyn Kelly, let's wrap it up, Wrap it up. United States. Enough is enough. Let's Time to go home. No reason to declare war. No reason to drop atomic bombs, no reason to plan a land invasion, no reason to send major warships over there. Now, no one says this. I mean, this is Netanyahu's point and I agree with him completely. The debate has focused on, you know, should we have dropped the atomic bomb, should we have done the land invasion instead? But those are really the two candidates. There's no prominent voice that I'm aware of in this historical debate that takes the third position, which is a completely fictional and bogus position, that the United States should have done little or nothing or limited its retaliation to surgical strikes that are based on some Sort of a headcount of the original casualties. By the way, if you're thinking that this is something that happened 75 years ago, what does it really matter? Look at 9 11. Exactly the same thing. 3,000 people killed in 9 11. How many did the United States kill in Afghanistan? Not counting other places, not counting the Iraq war, just Afghanistan, maybe even just Kabul and just the outskirts of Kabul in the absolutely massive bombing that followed when the US retaliated against the Taliban and expelled them from power. As far as I know, there has never been even, I'm not aware of any kind of headcount or body count. We didn't even bother to count the casualties because the idea was you started it, you attack us. And so our retaliation is not going to be proportionate to what you did. It's going to be disproportionate in order to teach you a kind of permanent lesson. So Netanyahu here I think is doing a very interesting combination of making these kinds of political arguments, but he's also attending to the sort of historical and biblical arguments. I was particularly touched when he talked in the podcast about his own family coming to Israel and coming to Israel a long time ago, in fact, long before a lot of people who now call themselves Palestinian. It's probably worth me saying a little bit about this notion of Palestinian because the name Palestinian is actually a name that came up, the Romans came up with, they got the name from the Philistines, but in a very interesting way. There were multiple Jewish revolts against Rome that began around 150 BC and continued in the, really in the century and a half after Christ. So we're talking about a 300 year period. There was the so called Maccabean revolt. There was a, there was the revolt that led to the, the Romans smashing and burning the temple. This was in 70 AD there. Later there was a revolt that is sometimes known as the Bar Kokhba revolt after Simon Bar Kokhba, the guy who sort of led that revolt. And this had to do with ultimately the rebels holed up in a place called Masada and the Romans put a siege on it. So in any event, the Romans were very angry about these Jewish revolts. And the Romans decided we're going to teach these Jews a lesson. We're going to sort of take away not just their country, we already have it, but we're going to take away their country's identity. It's no longer going to be Judah or Judea. It's no longer going to be Israel. We're going to name it after their classic and longtime enemies, the Philistines from 1,000 years earlier, in other words, from 3,000 years ago from now. And the Romans took this name of the Philistines and essentially renamed the land Palestine. So if you're wondering like where does Palestine come from? That's where it comes from. And then fast forward to the 20th century. Yasser Arafat, who by the way was an Egyptian Arab, grabs the concept of the Palestinian. So what we're getting at here is that Palestinian is a kind of invented identity. It's a little bit like the trans phenomenon. You're inventing an identity that comes out of your imagination. There has never really been a country called Palestine, unless you're basically taking the Roman name and saying, well, all of Israel is Palestine. It was called Palestine by the Romans. In that sense, yes. But there has never been an independent Palestinian state other than Israel, outside of Israel or adjoined to, to Israel. That's never existed. That is really. And I think it was interesting when I was talking to the son of Hamas, Masab Hassan Yousef, because he says there's no Palestine. There are no Palestinians. There are Arabs who inhabit the region. But that doesn't, by the way, guarantee one, the rights to a state.
- [23:43]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Right.
- [23:43]
Dinesh D'Souza
There are Sikhs who live in India. These are the people with the turbans and they live in India. But that doesn't mean that they have a Sikh country within the country. They can't go to the Indian government, say we want a two state solution. So lots of people who are one ethnic group or one tribe live inside of a country that is run by the majority of people in that country. And then they have to live by the laws of that country. So the idea of having Arabs, by the way, there are plenty of Arabs who live in Israel. They live prosperously, they live contentedly. There are Arab millionaires, they live peacefully. They are Arabs in the Israeli parliament. A lot of people don't know these things and to some degree, I who knew them. Nevertheless, you're struck when you see them up close. When you're in Israel, you see that's the Arab neighborhood and that's these are the Arab members in parliament. And this is what they're talking about and this is what they're debating and so on. So in any event, big hubbub about Netanyahu, who's obviously become sort of the radioactive center and of so many attacks that are coming from the left and as I say, even, even from the right. So earlier this morning I was trending on Netanyahu. And now I'm trending again for some skirmishes with Tucker and with Candace. And look, my take on. On camp, and I've been actually doing somewhat jibes with Candace that are. That are not. Not substantive at all. I posted as a kind of. Not a peace offering, but nevertheless, I posted, you know, a picture of Candace and I kind of not hugging each other, but really, you know, our face is really up close. And this is from the old days in Blexit. This is when Candace was doing. Was going after DEI and affirmative action and Black Lives Matter, and. And I was like, wow, you know, this is the Candace that I came to sort of admire and respect. This is the Candace that was totally on board with the themes of Hillary's America exposing the racist history of the Democratic Party. Candace was in some ways a kind of oracle, taking ideas that I was writing about, but transmitting them in a way that I couldn't have to blacks. This was the value of Candace Owens. And I would say it's a similar point about Tucker. Tucker came to fame because of what he said about the deep state and the police state and the way he talked about COVID and the way he would take on some of these issues that were not, by and large, being given amplification on Fox. And then, of course, he walks away from Fox. So this is sort of the Tucker we admire. But alas, and this is the real regret. We look at Candace today and Tucker, and they're different people. And not only are they different people, they have a completely different agenda. They're both obsessed with the Jews, they're obsessed with Israel. They talk little about anything else. If they talk about some other subject and you get into it for three minutes, you suddenly realize it comes right back to the Mossad. It's right back to Netanyahu, it's right back to Israel. And so it's like, you know, I feel like this is a sleight of hand. You remember the Dave Chappelle joke when he basically said, look, I went, you know, I went to meet. I went to meet this actor. But this actor was playing a role. And because he's a method actor, he told me, listen, don't, you know, don't call me by my name. Call me by the name I'm playing in this role because I've got to maintain the role. I'm a method actor. I'm really not this guy. I'm the fictional character I'm playing. And basically, Dave Chappelle was like, you know, I'm a little disappointed because, like, that's not the guy I showed up here to meet. And this is kind of my point about that. We signed up for Candace and we're getting a different Candace. We signed up for Tucker, and we're getting a different Tucker. So we have no obligation to get on these buses that we never signed up to ride on. That's the point. And I think this is a point not just about me. I'm reflecting, I think here, the mainstream of the Republican Party, even the mainstream of maga, I mean, we signed up for maga. The way Trump defines maga, let's remember he created it. Trump is the one who said what MAGA is. And for Trump, as for me. And by the way, this would be true for Reagan as well. MAGA involves America first, but not America alone. America has allies. And I think Trump thinks that by and large, the interests of Israel are congruent with and supportive of the United States. Reagan would agree. I agree. I think the mainstream of the Republican Party agrees. The mainstream of the MAGA voters agree. So essentially, what you have here is a faction that is trying to rip MAGA into two against Trump, trying to take MAGA away from Trump and say, no, Trump, you're wrong. Our enemy is not radical Islam, it's actually Israel. And you're not controlling Netanyahu. He's controlling. You think of. Actually, none of these people, frankly, would have the guts to go say this to Trump because he would have nothing to do with them again. In fact, he would treat them in such a degrading way that I don't even know if they would be able to show their faces in public again. So they don't dare to do any of that. But nevertheless, I think in their own way, and maybe their intention here is listening. You know, Trump is too dug in. Trump is too sort of internationalist. Trump does believe in this idea of enemies and allies. We're going to try to work on J.D.
- [29:27]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Vance.
- [29:27]
Dinesh D'Souza
So in the days after Trump, we, the anti Israel, anti Jewish faction, we're going to try to take over this movement and maybe push people like Mark Levin and push people like Josh Hammer and push people like Dinesh out of it. And I'm like, really? If you push us out, where's your majority? I'm not even sure you have a majority in maga, let alone a majority in the country. This kind of division is only going to help our enemies. It's only going to help the radical jihadis abroad. It's only going to help the cultural left. And the Democrats at home. So in the end, I fully recognize that we need some sort of a truce on this issue. Inside of MAGA and inside of the.
- [30:11]
AARP Announcer
Republican Party, November is National Family Caregivers Month. One in four Americans is stepping up to help older loved ones with everything from meals to bills. Family caregivers spend thousands out of their own pockets each year, and too many have to quit their jobs to keep providing care. Working families can't afford to wait. It's time to care for America's caregivers. Learn more@aarp.org paid for by AARP.
- [30:42]
Dinesh D'Souza
I recognize that there are people who have a lot of questions about Israel. All right, we're going to have to deal with those questions. I recognize there are big issues that need to be debated. All right, I, for one, am willing to debate them. I do think that our film is a very good starting point for this kind of truce, for this kind of reconciliation. The film engages these issues, but it does it in a way that I think is ultimately very informative. It introduces elements of history, archeology, biblical understanding, biblical prophecy that are not fully fleshed out in the debate right now. So it elevates the debate. And there is a very powerful spiritual element in this film, a spirit of restoration, a spirit of renewal. The film, I think, in the end, does and can bring us together. So I urge you to see it in theaters today. If you possibly can. Go to thedragonsprophecyfilm.com, put in your zip code, buy your tickets, off you go. I'd also love to hear from you. By the way, please make comments or make videos with your reaction to the film after you see it. Post those. And if you tag me on X, tag me at Dinesh d'. Souza. I will do my best to share some of those reactions. Again, the film goes into streaming tomorrow, so if you want to be one of the first people to watch at home tomorrow, or, of course, this coming weekend. I realize a lot of us are working and so not so easy to see during the week. No problem. Sign up, get ready, make plans to watch it this weekend. This film, I think, can be truly transformational. I mean, transformational in a political sense, yes, but also transformational for you.
- [32:27]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Why?
- [32:27]
Dinesh D'Souza
Because in the end, the theme of the film is that the battle between good and evil is raging inside your human heart. It's a battle, in the end, for your soul. And at the end, it's not even about whether you support Israel or whether you support Netanyahu. You're not obliged to do any of those things. But what I do want you to do is in the end, take sides. And take sides for God against the dragon. Take sides for good against evil. This is the way we have spiritual renewal in this country and in the world.
- [33:01]
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- [33:40]
Dinesh D'Souza
Very good for you.
- [33:40]
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- [34:02]
Dinesh D'Souza
You got to order online.
- [34:04]
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- [35:25]
Dinesh D'Souza
Guys, I'm absolutely delighted to welcome to the podcast a friend and also someone who is, well, a star in our new film the Dragon's Prophecy. I'm talking about Eric Stackelbeck. He is senior news director for TBN News. He spent two decades covering the Middle East. He's an expert on terrorism and he's also host of TBN's the Watchmen show and the Watchmen Newscast on YouTube. By the way, you can follow Eric on XERC E R I C K Stackelbeck S T A K E L B E C k. And on YouTube it's watchmantv.com Eric, thanks for joining me. I really appreciate it. And I know that you know, when you, when you, when you participate in a film, you're one is always a little apprehensive because you don't know how the film is going to come out. But, but we sent you a link. You finally watched the film. Of course, it's also in theaters tonight. What was your take on the film as a whole?
- [36:28]
Eric Stackelbeck
Dinesh, Number one, great to be with you as always. Number two, honored to be a part of the film because number three, the film is phenomenal. It did not disappoint. I knew it was going to be great, but just the timeliness, I mean, we're in the midst Dinesh of the two year anniversary of October 7th. And this film drops that you so expertly put together featuring unseen footage from that horrific day and much more. The most important thing about it, Dinesh, is ultimately this is a spiritual battle and it's really a biblical battle in the modern day. And that just shines through throughout the film. That's the key that a lot of people are missing. People say, wow, how could such a horrific chain of events happen and unfold? It was clearly a demonic chain of events on October 7th, and that runs throughout the film. That's the most important thing. We can look at it, Dinesh, from a purely geopolitical perspective and that's great, it's important. But at the end of the day, we're not capturing the true message of what October 7th meant if we don't see it from the spiritual perspective. And the film captures that incredibly. Both legs, Dinesh, the geopolitical, the global ramifications of on that end, and the spiritual, biblical and prophetic. It's just a perfect mix of all the relevant issues that matter not only to every Christian, to every American. Everyone should see this film.
- [37:49]
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- [38:19]
Dinesh D'Souza
Eric, let's flesh this out a little bit more so that people understand better what you mean when you say that. The spiritual lens, the biblical compassion is absolutely critical here. I think what you're saying is that we can try to understand things on a natural level. We can understand October 7th on a natural level. We can understand antisemitism on a natural level. We can give a natural explanation. But the natural explanation at the end of the day falls a little short. It doesn't seem to fully grasp the phenomenon we're talking about. And we have to reach almost for a supernatural or for an explanation that goes beyond the natural. Let's take two examples. One is October 7th itself, and the other is anti Semitism. And can you elaborate on the point, why both these things require an explanation that goes beyond the natural?
- [39:12]
Eric Stackelbeck
Yeah, Dinesh. I think both actually go hand in hand and everyone should consider this. We have this obsession, clearly. I think that's not a stretch to use the word obsession with Israel and the Jewish people. But why? I mean, we see it play out obviously on October 7th. We see it play out just this week in New York City with call for Calls for more October 7th by Pro Hamas mobs demonstrating in front of Trump Tower. But why? I mean, consider this. Less than 1% of the world's total population, 0.02%. 16 million of 8 billion people are Jews. That's it. It's a minuscule people group and the world's one and only Jewish state. Only 10 million people live there and 8 million are Jews. It's the size of the state of New Jersey, Dinesh. To put it in even starker terms, Israel is the size of the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex where I'm sitting right now. That's how tiny it is. So why this obsession? I mean, whether it's Europe, the un, the left, the woke right, radical Islam, all obsessed with this tiny people group and this tiny piece of land. There's no rational explanation for it. And it's the world's oldest hatred. Anti Semitism goes back 4,000 years. It continues sadly unabated. Every, it seems every empire, horrific dictators, individuals, tyrants have come against the Jewish people. Why? And my sense, Dinesh clearly is that Israel's continued existence, against all odds, totally improbable odds, is really proof of God's existence. And he's a promise keeping God. And he made an unconditional covenant with the Jewish people, the people of Israel, thousands of years ago. And he sticks to that and he breaks his promises to Israel. What's to say he won't break his promises to us? So at the end of the day, I think it's a hostility to the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that was at the root not only of October 7th and the massacre, but the unrelenting wave of anti Semitism that we see playing out once again on the streets today right here in the West. And the worst case of it since the run up to World War II.
- [41:23]
Dinesh D'Souza
I mean, to drive your point home even further, you have all kinds of massacres that happen all over the world. You have tribal wars that go on in Africa, you have the persecution of Christians, and yet you have Christians in the west who are more obsessed with the Palestinians and what Israel is doing than they are about their own fellow Christians having their heads cut off by these very same radical Muslims. And you're saying that makes so little sense that one almost has to search for a kind of demonic role here. These people have been in a sense manipulated by the devil, right?
- [42:03]
Eric Stackelbeck
Yeah. I mean, that's not a stretch at all to say that Dinesh, I think it is so irrational and unexplainable and so long standing. Again, the cancer of antisemitism stretches back thousands of years. Look, the Jews again, this tiny people group have been blamed for the Black Death, the plague in the Middle ages, more recently, 9, 11, even Charlie Kirk's assassination. That's the new anti Jewish conspiracy theory. Why does it always come back to this one tiny, tiny people group and now this one tiny nation. The world's eyes are fixated on Israel and Dinesh. I don't think it's a coincidence that if you look on a map, Israel is at the very center of the world, geographically, quite literally, it is the center of the world and Jerusalem is the center of that center. And getting biblical about it. I look at the Book of Zechariah, chapter 12, verse 3, and God is very clear that he says that a day is coming when all nations will gather against Jerusalem and all nations will be. Anyone who comes against Jerusalem, the Bible says, will be cut to pieces. It says Jerusalem will become like a burdensome stone for the entire world. I think we see that again playing out in real time. Right now, everyone wants a piece of Jerusalem. In particular, whether again, it's the un, the eu, radical Islamists. It goes across the board. Everyone wants a piece of Jerusalem.
- [43:31]
Dinesh D'Souza
Why?
- [43:32]
Eric Stackelbeck
Maybe it's because it's God's city where he has issued a title deed. He has literally written his name on the walls of the city of Jerusalem. I don't think any of the anti Semitism and anti Israel venom we're seeing, considering that the biblical history and the biblical promises is by coincidence.
- [43:51]
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November is National Family Caregivers Month. One in four Americans is stepping up to help older loved ones with everything from meals to bills. Family caregivers spend thousands out of their own pockets each year and too many have to quit their jobs to keep providing care. Working families can't afford to wait. It's time to care for America's caregivers. Learn more@aarp.org CareForCareGivers paid for by AARP.
- [44:21]
Dinesh D'Souza
Eric, you used a key word earlier that I think is now in some ways the whole center of this a debate regarding replacement theology. You use the word unconditional. You said, God gave this land unconditionally. And what I'm hearing from people on the right, and by the way, when you say obsession, I mean, isn't it fascinating? You, I, I look at all these, like, political allies on the right who at one time were concerned with a wide variety of issues, from COVID to police state to censorship. And now all they talk about from morning to night is Israel. Every issue can begin. It could begin at the North Pole, but it's going to end up in Mossad. It's going to end up with Israel. So there's no obsession on our side. There's an obsession with their side. In fact, when they say, Dinesh, why are you obsessed with Israel? I go, well, I've been in public life for over 30 years. I've never addressed Israel before. This is the first time I'm making a film about Israel. I've never written a book about Israel. So who's. I am taking on this topic because it's extremely relevant now. But what I'm getting at is that these are people promoting a version of replacement theology in which seems to me to go something like this. God gave the land to Abraham with a kind of small print qualification. Kind of, it's an as long as the Jews behave themselves qualification. The Jews didn't behave themselves. Jesus came along from within the Jewish community, but they rejected him and therefore all bets are off. God's revoking or abrogating his earlier covenant, the old covenant is now replaced by the new. To which you say, what?
- [46:08]
Eric Stackelbeck
The Bible just completely refutes that entire notion. I mean it's all there in the word of God that the promises are open ended and unconditional. Dinesh, as you said, God never said, if you do this Israel, I will honor the covenant. In Ezekiel, the book of Ezekiel, chapter 36, God actually says, I'm going to bring you back to the land I have given you. You'll be dispersed to the ends of the earth for thousands of years, but I'm going to bring you back in the latter days key point there. And he says, not because you deserve it, God is very clear, you don't deserve it. But I'm going to bring you back to the land for my holy name's sake, for my sake, for the sake of my holy name, to show the world that yes, I am a covenant and promise keeping God. So again, it's unconditional. The covenant God made with the people of Israel was not contingent on Israel being perfect and always walking with the Lord. If that was the case, I think we'd all be in trouble. But it was unconditional, it was open ended. And I don't know why people can't wrap their heads around that. The Book of Amos, I could go verse by verse, Dinesh, throughout the Old and New Testament. The book of Amos, God says, I will bring you back. I will plant you back in the land I have given you, never to be uprooted again. What part of never do the replacement theology folks not understand? I look in the New Testament, the APostle Paul, Romans 11:12, he literally says, is God done with the Jewish people? Certainly not. Paul is very clear and he says, look, Gentiles, don't get, don't get cocky here. Gentiles are grafted in to the root to the Jewish people. So look, the two aren't mutually exclusive. We serve a very big God. He can have an incredible plan still for the land of Israel, the people of Israel and for the church. The two aren't mutually exclusive. God's not done with the Jewish people and a helpful Reminder that the savior of the world, his name was Jesus. Guess what? He. He was a Jew from the Israeli town of Nazareth. So I think that gets lost in the shuffle sometimes.
- [48:13]
Dinesh D'Souza
And so were the apostles. And by the way, so was the apostle to the Gentiles, namely Paul. Now, you know, there was a very interesting, as far as I know, the only time that Paul, who didn't have direct knowledge of Christ, right, Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus. But Paul meets up with the apostles right as his ministry is getting going. And as I understand it, the big issue that they were sorting out was to what degree do Gentiles have to, quote, become Jewish in order to then embrace the Messiah? So, in other words, is Judaism the necessary path that you have to take to Christianity for Gentiles? And it looks like the way that that debate was sorted out was basically the agreement was, all right, look, gentiles don't have to be circumcised. They don't have to keep the Sabbath. They don't have to follow some of the Jewish rituals or eat some of the Jewish foods or keep some of the Jewish holidays. But. And this is a really big but, they kind of have to take the rest of it. In other words, we're not getting rid of Genesis 1 creation, we're not getting rid of Exodus. You have to keep the Ten Commandments. We're not going to get rid of the Hebrew prophets. So in other words, apart from this sort of change of modest rules in terms of dietary codes and also in terms of circumcision and so on, by and large, the Gentiles have got to take the rest of it. And that's, of course, why the Old Testament is still in the Bible, why it's attached to the New. Because this was an understanding of Christianity going back really 2000 years. Some of the people on the right are trying to make it seem like that. You know, they're arguing with some branch of Protestant dispensational theology. I think what you and I are saying is, no, they're actually arguing with mainstream Christianity itself. No doubt.
- [50:04]
Eric Stackelbeck
I mean, this is from the. I mean, look, as you mentioned, Dinesh, the first disciples, the first followers of Jesus were Jews. We can go back. I mean, Mary, Joseph, no matter what Christian denomination you're coming from, it's an undeniable fact that the early church was almost exclusively Jewish. That's just a fact. The Jewish roots of the Christian faith, it can't be explained away. The Old Testament cannot be dismissed. And Jesus says many times, look, I was predicted. I was foretold by the prophets in the Old Testament. We can't just throw that out the window. And again, it stretches prophecies about Israel, God's promises, the covenants with Israel, that stretches right on into the New Testament. I think the book of Romans, where Paul lays it out so eloquently in Romans 11 and 12, is probably the greatest example of that. But look, a promise keeping God, when he makes a promise, he's not going to change his mind. And that would spell doom for all of us if that was the nature of the God we serve. And one quick thing, Dinesh, some have said in the replacement theology crowd over the past few months, and this is just a firestorm, of course, on social media, it's really dividing the conservative movement in many ways. Someone said, Look, Genesis 12:3, that's kind of a foundational verse for those of us who, who support Israel and support its right to exist. God says to Abraham, I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse those who curse you and your descendants. Well, Abraham's direct descendants are Isaac and Jacob. It's the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob's name was changed to Israel by God himself. And we have the replacement theology crowd saying, no, no, no, God wasn't referring to Israel when he said that to Abraham, that I'll bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. Well, really? Then why has every nation, empire and individual that's come against Israel and the Jewish people wound up in the ash heap of history? Dinesh, it's really astounding. Look at the past 3,500 years of human history. Think of Pharaoh in Egypt. Think of the Philistines, Haman of the mighty Persian empire, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Amalekites, it goes on. The Nazis, the Ottomans. Where are they today? Yet against all odds, the people of Israel not only survive, they're thriving.
- [52:26]
Dinesh D'Souza
And do you think, Eric, to put a blunt face on it, that if America, which has by and large blessed Israel over certainly since the founding of Israel in 1948, that if America in an explicit way repudiates and turns against Israel? I mean, I think what you're saying is that the Bible signals that that will be our fate as well. In other words, you know, Debbie always highlights that this verse about blessing and cursing, we tend to focus on the first part. If you bless Israel, you'll be blessed. But the second part is what carries a real whack, right? Because it's like adding a second clause here and Specifically noting, not that those who curse Israel will not get the blessing, but it goes further. It goes, you will in fact be cursed. And what you're saying is that, that America is not exempt from this kind of biblical warning.
- [53:23]
Eric Stackelbeck
No, Dinesh, I agree 100%. No nation, no individual is exempt from that. If we go down that road, that spells curtains for us in the long run. I look at Britain right now, look the British Empire, and in the aftermath of World War II, the Brits did not treat Israel and the Jews very well, to say the least. If you know the history there of the 1930s and 1940s, I see Britain crumbling now, a crisis really of their own making, by the way, committing cultural suicide. But this bears out time and time again. And Dinesh, I'll take it a step further, that Genesis 12:3 verse which has become so controversial. I'll bless those who bless you. I'll curse those who curse you. Here's another key point right after that, God says to Abraham, and through you, Abraham and your descendants, the people of Israel, all nations on earth will be blessed. What does God mean by that? I think the most pertinent example is Jesus. Jesus came through that line. He's the lion of the tribe of Judah. Again, Jesus was a Jew from the land of Israel, and certainly through him all nations on earth have been blessed. So again, scripture bears it out.
- [54:34]
Dinesh D'Souza
Eric, I'd be remiss if I don't ask you, as we close out here to comment about, about this peace plan, because it's got a lot of details. There's like a lot of items on the menu. I see some items that it seems to me are going to be painful for Israel to give in on. But it looks like Netanyahu has been willing to give in on those. Then of course you have this sort of wild card. Hamas, an organization that is almost defined by terror itself. And they seem to be playing a little bit of a game. Yeah, we'll release the hostages, but we've got a lot more things to work out in this deal. Can you give us your kind of lay of the land on this and also where you think it's going to come out?
- [55:15]
Eric Stackelbeck
Yeah, Dinesh, it's difficult when you're negotiating with a modern day Nazi death cult. That's number one, that's what we have in Hamas. Number two, I think either way, this deal, this peace plan, whether Hamas accepts it or not, it really spells the end of Hamas. If they accept, entails them laying down their arms, handing back the hostages and ceding any control of Gaza. I assume the remaining Hamas leadership in Gaza, what's left of it, that Israel has eliminated, would be exiled. So it's the end of Hamas in that sense, if they accept the deal. But if they deny the deal and they choose to keep fighting, then Israel has the green light from President Trump to demolish Hamas, finish the job, and finish them once and for all. I think the outcome here at the end of the day is, is no, no more Hamas. Either way, that's a great thing. But, Dinesh, as you said, look, you're negotiating with this death cult. They're making demands now. They're going to try and string this out and get concessions as much as they can. And I think the most painful concession for Israel would be to release some of these notorious, hardened murderers, Hamas murderers, who are now rightfully in Israeli prisons. That would be a very bitter pill to swallow if Israel has to do that. That's one thing Hamas is now demanding. And in the days to come, I look for Hamas to try to demand more concessions from Israel. I think Israel needs to hold the line here and not budge anymore. The sense we got from President Trump the other day was that it's take it or leave it at this point for Hamas. Now we have US Negotiators in Sharm El Sheikh indirectly negotiating with Hamas. Ron Dermer is there. Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner are actually there as well. So I hope they hold the line. Why can. Hamas has no leverage here. Yes, they have the hostages. Once the hostages are released, what does Hamas have at that point? Again, it's the end of Hamas. So I wouldn't be so eager to hand over a hardened Palestinian terrorist who murdered tens, hundreds, even thousands of Israelis. And by the way, many of them have American blood on their hands as well.
- [57:25]
Dinesh D'Souza
Absolutely. Excellent analysis, guys. I've been talking to Eric Stackelbeck, the senior news editor for TBN. Follow him on xericstacklebeck. You can also check out watchmantv.com on YouTube. Eric, you're a star of our show. Thank you for being part of it. And of course, wonderful to have you on the podcast.
- [57:43]
Eric Stackelbeck
Thanks, Dinesh. God bless. Take care.
- [57:45]
Dinesh D'Souza (Podcast Intro/Outro)
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