The Dinesh D’Souza Podcast

Episode Title: UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE FOR CHRIST
Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Danielle D’Souza Gill (guest hosting for Dinesh D’Souza)
Guest: Zev Orenstein, Director of International Affairs at the City of David

Episode Overview

In this episode, Danielle D’Souza Gill leads a thought-provoking exploration into the historicity of Jesus Christ, the reliability of the biblical record, and recent archaeological discoveries in Jerusalem that corroborate Christian and Jewish heritage. The episode features an in-depth discussion with Zev Orenstein from the City of David project in Israel, providing fresh insights into the Pilgrimage Road and the city’s significance for both faith and historical scholarship.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Christianity’s Unique Claims and its Historicity

(03:25 - 23:09)

• Uniqueness of Christianity:
  Danielle emphasizes that Christianity stands apart from other faiths—not just for its practices, but for its claim that "God Himself" became man in the person of Christ.

• Mirrored Elements in World Religions:

  • Christianity incorporates unique customs and approaches found separately in other major religions, underlining its universality.
  • Quote:

    "It's almost as if Christianity was specially designed to sate the innate hunger for the divine which everyone has, no matter where you are from."
    — Danielle D’Souza Gill (05:00)

• Biblical Evidence for Jesus:

  • The reliability and proximity in time of the New Testament manuscripts are highlighted: over 5,800 Greek manuscripts, some as early as the 2nd century.
  • Comparisons are made:

    "When you consider the fact that documentation providing the existence of Alexander the Great can only be dated 400 years after his death, the evidence for Christ is far more reliably historical."
    — Danielle D’Souza Gill (07:20)

• Extra-Biblical Historical Sources:

  • Flavius Josephus: Writings confirm Christ’s existence and crucifixion.
    • Quote:

      "He appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and 10,000 other wonderful things concerning him..."
      — Quoting Josephus (10:50)

  • Tacitus: Confirms Jesus’ execution by Pontius Pilate and Christian persecution under Nero.
    • Quote:

      "Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate..."
      — Quoting Tacitus (13:35)

• Historical Archaeology:

  • Dead Sea Scrolls: Validate Jewish and Christian scriptural traditions and text preservation.
  • Megiddo Mosaic: Early explicit reference to Jesus as God incarnate.
  • Alexamenos Graffito: A second-century Roman mockery demonstrating early Christian worship practices and persecution.

• The Shroud of Turin:

  • Discussed as possible archaeological evidence for the resurrection and transfiguration, described in a modern context as akin to “the first selfie.”
    • Quote:

      "It's possible that during the act of resurrection, Christ's body created that light and burned the image into the Shroud."
      — Danielle D’Souza Gill (21:15)

2. Christianity’s Enduring Impact

(23:39 - 25:36)

• Impact on Western civilization—legal systems, science, and values.
• Christianity’s answers to suffering, hope, and the human condition.
  • Quote:

    "Christianity is a faith based on the revelation of a redeemer. It is a faith made by God. And we know this because God has left his fingerprints all over it."
    — Danielle D’Souza Gill (24:34)

3. Archaeological Evidence: The City of David and Pilgrimage Road

(29:18 - 48:01)

Introduction of Guest: Zev Orenstein

(29:18)

The Discovery of the Pilgrimage Road

(29:42 - 32:20)

• Accidental discovery in 2004 during sewage repairs; led to the excavation of stone steps dating to the time of Jesus.
• The steps connect the Pool of Siloam—where pilgrims ritually cleansed—to the Temple Mount, confirming biblical descriptions.
  • Quote:

    "This was the road that our ancestors... Jews and Christians, 2,000 years ago, this is the very road that they would have walked on when they went on pilgrimage up to the Temple..."
    — Zev Orenstein (31:22)

The Challenges and Uniqueness of the Excavation

(32:20 - 34:44)

• Excavations take place underground, supporting modern infrastructure above.
• Metaphor for historical layering—earthquakes, conquests, and time have buried the ancient city.

American Heritage Recognition and Recent Events

(34:44 - 37:26)

• President Trump’s administration recognized the City of David as an American Heritage Site, underlining Jerusalem’s influence on American values.
• A recent event marked the reconnection of the Pilgrimage Road from the Pool of Siloam to the Temple Mount, with prominent American and Israeli dignitaries.
  • Quote:

    "[Secretary Rubio said,] ‘the City of David, Jerusalem is an inspiration for the values and ideals that the United States of America has been established upon...’"
    — Zev Orenstein (36:00)

The Roadblocks, Pushback, and Affirmation of Faith

(37:44 - 41:45)

• The growing interest, especially among people of faith seeking affirmation under secular assault.
• Skepticism and pushback exist, but archaeological findings provide tangible, academic validation.
• Emphasis that faith stands alone, but archaeology offers comfort and affirmation.

How Archaeological Dating and Verification Works

(41:45 - 45:29)

• Zev describes archaeological methods—layering, coins, pottery, and contextual evidence.
• The Pool of Siloam, Pilgrimage Road, and Temple Mount’s locations are confirmed by converging textual, physical, and academic evidence, often authenticated by secular archaeologists.
  • Quote:

    "...it's very special when you even have the academic world here in Jerusalem that is able to corroborate these discoveries as in fact, being exactly what they are and affirming the foundations..."
    — Zev Orenstein (44:45)

Plans for the Future and Vision

(46:36 - 48:01)

• Continued excavation is planned; upcoming focus on unearthing King David's palace.
• The ultimate vision is Jerusalem as a uniting spiritual and historic center for all nations.
  • Quote:

    "...hopefully that heritage will help people... to realize that, you know, it says in the Bible, we're all created in the image of God. There's a lot more that. That unites us and separates us, and hopefully this could be a part of bringing some of that spirit into the world."
    — Zev Orenstein (47:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Christianity’s Mirrored Universality

"From saints to martyrs to mystics, from incense to swords to prayer beads to altars, it seems like all of the world's religions can see something within Christianity... The most unique aspect of Christianity... is a personal connection to God."
— Danielle D’Souza Gill (05:30)

Evidence in Ancient Texts

"Neither pagan Romans, Jews, nor Muslims deny the existence of the man called Jesus of Nazareth. And that is pretty stunning."
— Danielle D’Souza Gill (06:40)

On the Pilgrimage Road's Discovery

"In repairing the sewage pipe, they had inadvertently discovered some ancient stone steps, 2,000 years old, going back to the time of Jesus."
— Zev Orenstein (29:55)

On Tangible Faith

"There’s a place like the City of David... where the tangible evidence of that faith is being brought to light in a way that could stand up to the highest levels of academic and scientific scrutiny."
— Zev Orenstein (38:20)

Future Vision

"...it would be wonderful if this could be a place that... Jerusalem could be a place that unites people with common heritage, common values, and people really can come together and connect to something that's really bigger than all of us."
— Zev Orenstein (47:08)

Important Timestamps

• 03:25 – The uniqueness of Christianity and its relation to religious practices worldwide
• 07:20 – Comparing documentary evidence for Jesus and Alexander the Great
• 10:50 – Josephus’ Testimonium Flavianum and its scholarly evaluation
• 13:35 – Tacitus’ external account of Christ’s execution
• 21:15 – The Shroud of Turin as possible evidence
• 29:42 – Zev Orenstein describes the discovery of the Pilgrimage Road
• 34:44 – American recognition of the City of David’s heritage
• 37:44 – Rising interest in faith-based archaeology amidst cultural tensions
• 41:45 – Archaeological verification and historical accuracy explained
• 46:36 – Future plans for the City of David and vision for Jerusalem

Conclusion

This episode powerfully blends historical, theological, and archaeological approaches to examine the figure of Jesus Christ and the roots of Christian faith. Danielle D’Souza Gill provides a robust apologetic for Christ’s historicity, while Zev Orenstein brings Jerusalem’s biblical narrative alive through recent discoveries. The episode offers inspiration and intellectual ammunition for believers, underlining the ongoing significance—and testability—of sacred history in the contemporary world.