VANITY “NOT SO” FAIR

Summary

The Dinesh D'Souza Podcast

Episode: VANITY “NOT SO” FAIR

Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Dinesh D'Souza
Co-host: Debbie D'Souza

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Episode Overview

This episode features Dinesh D’Souza and his wife Debbie in their signature “Friday Roundup” format, exploring a range of stories from the tragic Brown University shooting, a contentious Vanity Fair article on Trump staff, and reflections on political media bias, to global terrorism, U.S./Venezuela politics, and even a bizarre megachurch camel incident. With a blend of seriousness, wry humor, and philosophical musings, the pair dive into issues of political motive, the role of the media, the dangers of cultural naivete, and the perils and absurdities of contemporary life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brown University Shooting & The Search for Motive

[00:51–07:00]

• Dinesh opens with an update on the Brown University and MIT professor shooting case. The suspect, reportedly a Portuguese man with connections to both universities, was found dead (suicide).
• Both speculate on the motive, expressing skepticism about official narratives and frustration with the lack of a satisfying explanation.
• Debbie raises the odd detail that the shooter allegedly “barked like a dog” during the attack, dismissing speculation about religious or ideological motives.
• Dinesh philosophizes on the necessity of intentionality in human behavior, rejecting explanations rooted solely in neuroscience:

  “As human beings, whenever we talk about anything, we cannot understand... behavior outside of intentionality.” (Dinesh, 03:30)

• Reflection on the pain for the victims’ families given the senselessness of the crime.

2. Vanity Fair Article on Susie Wiles & Conservative Media Engagement

[07:00–13:13]

• Transition to Vanity Fair’s profile of Trump aide Susie Wiles. Dinesh references his own experience being profiled by Vanity Fair (2014), noting the outlet’s reputation for liberal bias and selective quoting:

  “You can take a handful of accurate quotes, embed them in a context that’s completely distorting or misleading.” (Dinesh, 12:25)

• They debate whether it’s ever worthwhile for conservatives to engage with such media, with Dinesh concluding perceptions have changed—there’s “no reason” to do it now as conservative media have their own platforms.

Memorable Exchange:

• Debbie: “So Vanity, not so fair.” (08:51; quipping about the magazine’s reputation)
• Dinesh: “If you do these interviews, you’re going to get a smear. You should expect a smear. You cannot play dumb or play naive afterward and go, ‘Oh, they smeared me.’” (13:02)

3. Terror Attack at Bondi Beach & Western Naivete about Islamism

[16:02–23:25]

• The pair discuss a recent ISIS-linked terrorist shooting at Bondi Beach, Australia, highlighting the impact on a country perceived as less jaded and politically traumatized than the U.S.
• Dinesh contextualizes the local impact:

  “It’s kind of like 120 people in America being killed, which would cause an incredible firestorm.” (17:36)

• Debbie critiques the Western tendency to misunderstand Islamist violence—describing the U.S. legal system’s struggles with cases involving honor killings.
• The pair lament media reluctance to call terror attacks by their ideological names, mocking headlines like “Motive unknown,” despite clear Islamist slogans at the scenes.

Notable Quotes:

• Dinesh: “The West does not understand Islam. Even in America…” (20:12)
• Debbie: “That is not the motive behind this.” (21:10; referring to honor killings being miscast as domestic violence)

4. Media Bias: CNN’s Take on Trump and the First Amendment

[34:19–44:08]

• Debbie reads from a recent CNN article claiming the Trump administration is eroding the First Amendment. The hosts point out what they see as the hypocrisy and double standards of mainstream media.
• Dinesh argues:

  “Their true position is that censorship should be allowed when they do it and not allowed when we do it… They don’t believe in applying even standards to everybody.” (36:38)

• Both note that liberal media shape reality for their audiences, creating partisans whose “honest” view of facts is determined by selective exposure.
• Debbie calls out:

  “They’re the biggest gaslighters on the planet.” (41:10)

• Discussion shifts to Dinesh’s “2000 Mules” film and the use of cell phone geo-tracking, critiquing responses from liberal commentators.

5. Venezuela and Regime Change

[44:08–47:44]

• Dinesh and Debbie reflect on potential political change in Venezuela.
• Debbie distinguishes between regime change in Islamic countries (“usually it’s worse”) and Venezuela (“now or never”).
• They decry the current Venezuelan regime as both oppressive and a facilitator for drug cartels, noting the strategic importance of a free Venezuela for the U.S. and its neighbors.

6. Trump, the “Trump Kennedy Center” and Presidential Libraries

[47:44–49:09; 28:49–31:12]

• Light-hearted segment about Trump’s desire to rename the Kennedy Center after himself, with Debbie joking about naming rights for big donors—suggesting it might just become “the Trump Center”:

  “Why not Trump?... Call it the Trump Center. Forget about the Kennedy.” (48:41)

• Sarcastic suggestions for how to commemorate the Biden presidency (e.g., a symbolic auto-pen or an empty room as his “library”), questioning how a President so absent could have a legacy institution.

7. Megachurch Camel Incident

[49:09–54:54]

• The duo recount a viral story of a real camel kicking a woman during a Christmas nativity display at a Texas megachurch.
• Humorous remarks on the spectacle of megachurch productions:

  “Some of these megachurches have too much money… They have become religious entertainment.” (53:48)

• They laugh at how social media users responded with jokes, but Dinesh and Debbie conclude with gentle criticism of over-the-top church events.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On intentionality and human motive:

  “We act for motives. And very often, the first thing you do if you’re on a jury or you’re examining a crime is you’re like, if you’re saying, ‘this guy did it,’ why did he do it?” (Dinesh, 04:29)

• On liberal media engagement:

  “You do these interviews, you’re going to get a smear… You should expect a smear.” (Dinesh, 13:00)

• On media’s double standards:

  “Their true position is that censorship should be allowed when they do it and not allowed when we do it.” (Dinesh, 36:38)

• On the Kennedy Center:

  “I would go further and I would just say call it the Trump Center. Forget about the Kennedy.” (Debbie, 48:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Brown University Shooting: [00:51–07:00]
• Vanity Fair/Media Bias Discussion: [07:00–13:13]
• Bondi Terror Attack & Islamism: [16:02–23:25]
• CNN/First Amendment Critique: [34:19–44:08]
• Venezuela Politics: [44:08–47:44]
• Trump & Cultural Satire (Kennedy Center, Biden’s Library): [28:49–31:12; 47:44–49:09]
• Megachurch Camel Incident: [49:09–54:54]

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Conclusion

This episode typifies Dinesh D’Souza’s style—a blend of dark news analysis, personal anecdotes, biting critique of “mainstream” media, and sardonic observations about politics and culture, punctuated by Debbie's warmth and asides. The episode delivers both serious reflection and comic relief, while taking firm stances on the vital importance of intentionality in human action, the perniciousness of biased media, and the need for clarity and realism in confronting global threats.

Transcript

[Ann Wilson]

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[Dinesh D'Souza]

The times are crazy. In a time of confusion, division and lies, we need a brave voice of.

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Reason, understanding and truth.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

This is the Dinesh d' Souza podcast. Debbie and I are all geared up for our Friday roundup and we have, well, a lot of things we're going to try to cover in a relatively short space of time. We're going to talk about the shooting at Brown University and the suspect and the strangeness of that situation. The Vanity Fair article on the Trump team, including Susie Wiles, Bondi Beach. I hear it's Bondi, not Bondi, Venezuela. An article in CNN about Trump taking away First Amendment rights, and a very strange story about a camel in a megachurch, which we'll get to perhaps at the end, but we'll start on a somber note. And yesterday I expressed some confusion and consternation over this bizarre case at Brown University. We seem to know more but were no less bewildered at the end of it. Right. What do you make of this strange development? Supposedly they identify the guy, the suspect, and then they go, he's dead. He shot himself. They found him in some kind of a warehouse. And he's this guy, this Portuguese guy with a long Portuguese name. And what we know, or what we seem to know, is that he went to school with the MIT professor who was also killed. Apparently the two shootings are now being linked. But the other thing was that he attended Brown, but it was in the early 2000s for a short time, I believe like a year. And he perhaps sat in that very classroom. But what sense can you make of it?

[Debbie]

I really can't make any sense out of it. We tried looking for a motive and we're like, could they have been lovers?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

But then, but then it would be an isolated incident.

[Debbie]

Exactly. And then why didn't he go to mit? Why did he go to Brown? You know what I mean? It was very strange. But the one thing that I read, I think it was this morning, was that you remember how we were trying to figure out what those words were that he said? And we're like, you know, did he say Allahu Akbar? You know, no, Somebody Said he barked like a dog.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Really?

[Debbie]

That's what I heard.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I did not see that.

[Debbie]

Yeah. And I was like, okay, it just gets weirder by the minute.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

You know, I've been all week talking about. About life after death. And one of the questions I've been talking about is, is this whole issue that our actions can be explained not by free will, but by the physical state of the neurons in our brain. Right? And it. All of this flashed before my mind when you said, what's the motive? Like, because as human beings, whenever we talk about anything, we cannot understand it. Human behavior outside of intentionality. And if someone were to say, well, of course he committed these murders, this guy, he obviously had the appropriate brain state and no further explanation is needed because essentially the anatomical shape of his mind and brain made him do it, and his intentions don't enter into it. You'd be like, what kind of gobbledygook is that? What kind of madness? What kind of inexplicable, irrational account? So my point being that human beings that were intentional animals, we act for motives. And very often, the first thing you do if you're on a jury or you're examining a crime is you're like, if you're saying, this guy did it, why do you do it?

[Debbie]

Why did he do it? Especially. It's especially interesting when we see a case like on 48 hours or one of those shows where the husband kills the wife and there's no motive. Like, no one's having an affair. There's no the money, insurance involved. It's like, wait, he couldn't have done it because he had to have had a motive to do it. Right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I think in those cases, it's not that there isn't a motive. It's that the motive is opaque. In other words, the show is not able to ferret out what was the internal dynamics of that situation that might have produced that. So I think those are cases where it's not that there isn't a motive. We're just unaware of what that. Of what that. What that motive is. So in any case, it looks like the sad chapter will be closed. And I was making the point to you just a couple of hours ago that how sad for the victims. You know, you're like, what explanation is there for why my daughter, who was the vice president of College Republicans, she died, and it turns out this weird guy for no apparent reason. I mean, strange. Could it even be? Does it make any sense to say that, okay, I'm off my rocker, so I'm going to now think about a classroom that I was sitting in 25 years ago, 25 years ago. And for that reason, I'm going to go to that classroom. I must say, there's a part of me that doesn't even buy it. I mean, I'll accept it if that's, if that is what it is, and that's all there is to know about it. But, like, your, your good sense, your, your demand for the rest of the story, like, rebels against it. You're like, you're not satisfied with this account, and yet sometimes that's all you get. All right, let's talk about Vanity Fair and this portrait of a White House and focused on Susie Wiles, who apparently did a series of interviews with Vanity Fair. Good question about whether this is even, you know, worth doing. But when I mentioned to you, you were like, well, Dinesh, you gave interviews to Vanity Fair during the time of your campaign finance case. Which I did.

[Debbie]

Yes, you did. And you were very excited because they were like, yeah, you're. Yeah, they're going to come to the house to do a photo shoot. And, and you were getting all dolled up for this photo shoot. And I was like, well, and then you even said, oh, yeah, the woman that interviewed you felt really bad. She went to your, the facility where you had, you know, your, your overnight confinement. And she was like, oh, this is so horrible.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, let, let me give you the basis for me saying those things. So the longtime editor of the New Republic in the 80s and 90s was a guy named Marty Peretz. He was a Harvard professor and, and a very smart guy. And I had sent him mid liberal education, and he loved it, and he did a blurb for it and in the back of the book, and I saw him subsequently at various events, and he was like, oh, man, Dinesh, you were so eloquent. So I knew that he, even though a liberal, by the way, was a fan of my work. So the reporter was his daughter, Evgenia Peretz. And she told me, she's like, I went to my dad and I told him, what do you make of Dinesh? And she said, my dad told me, he's a good guy. Treat him fairly. You know. And so she told me all this, and I was like, okay, well, look, Evgenia is a liberal. She is going to give it a liberal spin, but I think she will not do the kind of vicious smear that Vanity Fair is actually known for. So I knew the reputation of Vanity Fair, and, and then, of course, remember, we got to Know the guy who did the photo shoot?

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And not only is he a famous, like LA photographer, but he's actually conservative.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And he made me look really good in those photos. I actually.

[Debbie]

They were amazing photos.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, we have, we have one or two framed up.

[Debbie]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I didn't think the article was fair.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

The article was not fair.

[Debbie]

So vanity. Not so fair.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah. Well, the thing is also what our expectations are. I expected a somewhat negative article, and so it was negative, but it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't the kind of smear that we've seen Vanity Fair do.

[Debbie]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, look, recently Vanity Fair did this with Susie Wells and I believe, believe that they, that their main goal was to make the Trump administration look as, as crazy and as silly as possible.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah.

[Debbie]

And so, you know, they wanted to get all these people in there, you know, I GUESS it was J.D. vance. Did they interview J.D.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

No, but they, what they did was they got Susie Wild saying, and she said some negative things about other people. But I think the one on JD was the most damaging, where she basically goes, he's been a conspiracy theorist for 10 years. Which is a kind of a degrading thing to say about the VI president. Now she might say I said it in a funny way or I didn't mean it.

[Debbie]

Yeah, well, she did say that they took a lot of things out of context, which they're known to do.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They're known to do. They did that to you too. In fact, that should be expected because the way these guys work is.

[Debbie]

Although why do, why do you, why do other conservatives even bother going on that magazine if it's going to be a hit job?

[Ann Wilson]

Hey girl. Yes, you. You are seen, you are loved and you were made for more. Created especially for teen girls. Chart topping Christian artist Ann Wilson invites you to her 40 day devotional hey girl. Through honest stories, scripture and journal prompts and talks about real struggles, comparison, insecurity, doubt and faith, reminding you that God is always near and fighting for you. Hey girl from Caleb Books. Get your copy [e-mail] books well, I.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Think the situation now is different than it was even 10 years ago, which is about when I did it. Right. My case was in 2013. I think I did that article in 2014, 2014 or 15. Okay, so in 2014, the liberal media reigned. They, they control the discourse. And so here was the point. They're going to smear you anyway. So either they smear you straight out or they have quotes from you in which you point out Some counterpoints. But see, that has a risk because then it sounds like you cooperated and you. So I suppose a prudent thing to do is just not to comment.

[Debbie]

Right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

But a lot of us conservatives were in this awkward position of trying to do a certain amount of damage control by giving, quote, the other side. That's how the liberal would play on it. Hey, we want to hear your side right now. I don't think that that situation applies now. There's no reason for. If the Trump people were like, this is going to be a negative article. They're gonna take stuff out of. Out of context. You don't need it. You don't need their audience. Nobody cares who. Vanity Fair audience is not gonna vote for Trump, and they're not gonna vote for Republicans.

[Debbie]

Yeah. So why did they do it?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, I'm just thinking that they. There are two possibilities. I mean, one is, as you know, a lot of these Trump people, Trump included, are obsessed with popular culture, and Vanity Fair has been that iconic magazine of popular culture. So I think they look at Vanity Fair different than the New York Times. Vanity Fair then belongs more with, like, Conan o', Brien, but the Hollywood, it is the same ideological, not only one of the same. It's even worse in some ways because these entertainment writers are completely unhinged from political reality. Even the New York Times has got to stay somewhat, like, anchored or tethered to political reality. These people really don't. They say whatever they want. So, yes, I'm not surprised that they did an attack. And also, their idea of fact checking is not context or overall veracity. They're like, if the quotes match the things you said, the article has been fact checked and we're all good to go. Right? Whereas you and I know and everybody knows. You can take a handful of accurate quotes, embed them in a context that completely distorting or misleading. So I think in this case, you get what you signed up for. You know, you. You do these interviews, you're going to get a smear. You should expect a smear. You cannot play dumb or play naive afterward and go, oh, they smeared me.

[Debbie]

No, you should. You should expect it or just not do it. Right?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

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[Debbie]

We Missed out a lot.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

We probably could have drunk.

[Debbie]

You know how much we love to party.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, we probably could have drunk those tall beer things that are like a foot high that the Australians love. Australians love beer.

[Debbie]

They do love beer.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They love beer. Beer is their thing. Beer and the barbecue is.

[Debbie]

But their food is so delicious. I don't know why they eat that stuff. Why don't they just eat the normal stuff?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They like the shrimp and the barbie. They like the. They like the cookout idea. I think it's because they're outdoor.

[Debbie]

A little like Texas, you know, it's a lot like Texas, actually, in a lot. And the people, some of the people are very much.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

For sure.

[Debbie]

Texan life.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

We met sort of blue collar guys in Australia and we were almost thunderstruck at how they resembled the rural Texan.

[Debbie]

Yeah, they.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They were almost the same.

[Debbie]

Yeah. Well, we're getting off track a little bit.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Okay, back to. So talk about.

[Debbie]

Because this is the.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Let's talk about this.

[Debbie]

The terror.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah. You got. You've got a father and son duo. Yes, evidently. Did you tell me Afghans.

[Debbie]

They are. I don't know if they were Afghan, but they were definitely linked to isis. They had an ISIS flag in their car.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, yeah. So these are real, real terrorists.

[Debbie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And. And what they do is they go up on the bridge, they just open fire.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And. And, you know, even though it seems, I shouldn't say only 10, but. But Australia is a small country.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It's what, 25 million people?

[Debbie]

It only has like 30 million people. Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

The whole country. So it's 1/10.

[Debbie]

Yeah. It's the size of the United States with the population of Texas.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right. And so the way I think about it is I do the math, right? If we have 12 times the population of Australia, you've got to take, let's say 10 people, multiply by 12. It's kind of like 120 people in America being killed, which would cause an incredible firestorm.

[Debbie]

Incredible.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah. And so Australia is reeling. In fact, we were communicating with our friend in Australia who brought us over for the. For the lecture tour with Tucker. A year or so, a year and a half now, I guess. Ago. And he was like, I can't think of anything else right now except Bondi, because it has burned itself into the psyche of the Australians, I think. The Australians, you made an observation about them. They're sort of living in the 1980s.

[Debbie]

They are.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So they're in a little more innocent frame of mind than even America.

[Debbie]

Yes.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

We've gone Through a lot of political trauma. Hope. We've had police state, we've had Obama, we've had nine, 11. I think the average American is more jaded.

[Debbie]

They had a terrorist attack in 1996, I believe in Australia.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Australia did.

[Debbie]

That was before this one. The worst that they had. So it's been a long time. But also Australians are very, very nice people. And, and even, even the government of Australia, I don't think, I don't think they're as far off the, you know, the, the, the spectrum. Like we are very polarized. They're somewhat polarized, but I don't think they're as polarized as we are today in America.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

No, the debate there and we've seen, we've been close up and been able to see a fair amount of it. It does resemble the debate in America, like circa 1997. Yeah, it's, it's kind of the way we talked about Clinton. I mean, it was harsh, but it didn't have the bitterness. Yeah. The very sort of acrid edge that today's discourse has in America. And so the prime minister, who by the way is a leftist albanese, I was hearing him talk about this and he was basically, I don't think he was actually acting shocked. He was genuinely shocked. And he's like, there's no place for this in Australia. But again, the only way he could understand it was we have a lot of. We have some extremist tendencies in our society. And for him, the extremist tendencies were not pointing to radical Islam. They're like, we've got some extremist tendencies in various pockets of society. We need to clamp down.

[Debbie]

I think this is kind of the Achilles heel of the west because the west does not understand Islam, period. Even in America. Even in America. You remember that case, Washington versus Ali and Ali, and the verdict there was, was a verdict of like, well, you know, he abused.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I'll refresh people on what the case was. It was, it was apparently an attempted honor killing attempt where a father was trying to choke his daughter. He was ultimately pulled away from her, but not because he had second thoughts. He was trying to go ahead. Right. And the mom was at least okay with it, if not in on it. And they were tried. And for the jury and even for the judge, I think the whole case was, well, this is like domestic violence. This is sort of like a, like a parent who applies too much discipline to a child. And your point is what?

[Debbie]

My point is that is not the, that, that is not the motive behind this.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

That's not what's going on.

[Debbie]

That's not what's going on. And if Americans don't understand Islam and don't understand the, well, the, the Quran and what it says and, and what they believe, then we're going to naively always do this kind of thing. We're never going to really get to the root of the problem. And we, you know, we've had terrorist attacks. I mean, we had one in, in New Orleans. How long ago was that? Where the guy drove his truck and killed a bunch of people and he like, was screaming Allahu Akbar there. That was a terrorist attack. And of course, most recently we had that. The two.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, my gosh, you covered the Washington, D.C. washington D.C. two guys are going into this embassy.

[Debbie]

The National Guard guys.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Pre Palestine. Oh, the National Guard.

[Debbie]

National Guard.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

There's so many incidents now, it's like you have trouble keeping them apart.

[Debbie]

The Free Palestine guy was not Islamic. He was Hispanic. Hispanic, right. But he was, he was deranged and he believed that, you know, Palestine, the whole, that whole thing. Right, right. So he was a leftist.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

He was a leftist. But, but, but, but I, I would, you know, while he wasn't Islamic because of the Red Green Alliance.

[Debbie]

Yes.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

This ideology, the Islamic ideology permeates, kind of bleeds into, it bleeds into the left. And so you have non Muslims who accept at least some of it.

[Debbie]

Yeah, well, and that's just it. We have to, we have to understand Islam. We have to understand why some people that are Islamic Muslim do what they do and believe what they believe.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I mean, we've seen articles in America where someone shouts Allahu Akbar, then performs an act of terrorism with a knife or with a gun. And the headline is man kills another man. Motive unknown.

[Debbie]

Right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Because I think from the journalist point of view, and maybe they're just being openly deceptive, but the other possibility is that they are. Like, just because he shouted Allahu Akbar doesn't tell you what his motive is. Even though. Of course it does.

[Debbie]

Of course it does.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It couldn't make it more clear. Yeah, it's almost like advertising his motive. And then you've got these journalists who refuse to believe what people are even saying.

[Debbie]

Yeah, right. Makes no sense.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So. All right, let's move on to. We have the subject of Trump's tweet, and it's part of the larger subject of the, you know, the very sad, tragic murder of Rob Reiner and his wife by their wayward and evidently deeply disturbed son. And now Trump, in classic Trumpian fashion, he didn't have to go there. But he goes there and he kind of, I would say, makes it about himself.

[Debbie]

He shouldn't have gone there.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah. He. He correctly points out that Rob Reiner suffered from major tds.

[Debbie]

Yeah, but I don't think that was the time or the place to say that. I really don't.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Because. Why?

[Debbie]

Because. Well, first of all, this man was brutally murdered by his deranged son and his wife. They were killed in a horrible, horrible way. And by the way, when. When Charlie Kirk was shot, Rob Reiner actually stood up for Charlie Kirk. I mean, he. He didn't say.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

He made a very. He made a video that was actually a little out of step with liberal jubilation. True.

[Debbie]

So. So he, you know, so. And from. From what I hear, he seemed to be a nice person. Besides the Trump derangement syndrome thing that he had going on. Yeah, he seemed to be a nice person. But like, like I said, like I told you yesterday, I don't care when somebody dies and they're, you know, left, right, Democrat, Republican, whatever, and they're killed with such brutality by their own child. I, like, I ache for them. Like, I don't care what they are or did or whatever you're saying you.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Have a human being and you have a father and a mother who obviously knew that they had a disturbed kid. Kid. They were trying to do their best to keep the kid in line. They trusted him to the degree that they obviously let him in.

[Debbie]

We even talked about they were older parents because. Because he was 32 years old and they were in their 70s.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, wasn't he.

[Debbie]

You know, he was 78. Yeah, but then it doesn't matter.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

The man.

[Debbie]

Yeah, but she was 70, so she was an older mother. She had her kids in her 40s.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

So, you know, they. Yes, they were very wealthy and they probably spoiled their kids like any other parent that has money spoils their kid, you know, and so part of it is the.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

The very twisted lifestyles of Hollywood. And so you have dead beats galore, you know, Playboys galore, some people would say pedophiles galore. I don't know that for a fact, but you certainly have a lot of twisted behavior. And now it doesn't look like Rob Reinhard, his wife were themselves part of any of that, but they were probably surrounded by it. They were probably fairly accepting of it, and they probably tolerated a fair amount of it in their son. So. But you're saying. Even so.

[Debbie]

Even so. But so back to his tweet. I think he could have just Said, even though Rob Reiner and I didn't see eye to eye, even though he hated my guts, I'm really sorry that they went down this way, you know, Period. End it. Boom. Right there.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, that's that. Well, I mean, we often say that you are a traditional Republican, and that is, in fact, the traditional Republican reaction.

[Debbie]

I'm a Christian.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, no, I know. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong about it. I think that even some of the Trump defenders, and I saw some of them were like, okay, this may not have been the best tweet, but guess what? We're not gonna get. We're not gonna get into a pretzel trying to apologize for it. We're just gonna let it go. Given that Trump does this stuff, and not only that, it's kind of pointless to try to reform him.

[Debbie]

I get it. I get it. You can't. And a lot of people are like, who does his social media? Why didn't they stop him? Why did they let him do it? And I'm like, you don't know Trump. You don't know Donald Trump.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right. He is, in fact, the author of this. And no one is going to say, you can't do that. No, I mean, I think this. What's interesting is that this is a way in which I think a small way, but a significant way in which the second Trump term is different than the first. In the first Trump term, there were people who tried. They kept trying to corral Trump, which I think, in general, is a bad idea. In fact, I think one of the reasons Trump likes Susie Wilds and he defended Susie Wiles even after the Vanity Fair interview. Suzy Wells even says in the article, if I disagree with Trump, he wins. Meaning my job is to, in the very positive sense of the term, be an enabler. My job as chief of staff is to enable the president to do his thing, which is actually true. I mean, there's something unhealthy if you have a group of staffers who go, my job is to constrain the president in what he wants to do and make him do what I want to do. Because that. I mean, that right there is a little problematic from the Democratic framework. We elected Trump, not you.

[Debbie]

Well, and that's also what happened with. With Biden.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

With Biden, it just taken to a. To a unbelievable new level. A whole new level.

[Debbie]

They were controlling Biden.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Hey, by the way, did you hear. This is not on our list. But I think it's well Worth mentioning, Biden is apparently having major problems raising money for his presidential library. He set a goal of like 100 or $200 million, by the way, Obama's raised like six times that or five times that. And Biden is like, at 11 million right now. So my suggestion was that you skip, toss aside the idea of the library and just have a large symbolic auto pen. It is made out of hard plastic, like a real pen. That's the. That's the Bided legacy right there.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

President Auto.

[Debbie]

How do you do a library with a man that was absent for years?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

You know, I know. Maybe. Maybe Biden's mind could be represented by an empty room.

[Debbie]

That would be an $11 million big room.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, I mean, the nice thing about that is it doesn't cost much. Right. There's nothing in the room. It's just vacant.

[Debbie]

Yeah, it says, you know, it says Biden Presidential Library. And you're like, oh, you walk in and it's an empty room.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And not only that, but remember those old joke books that you could buy? This now goes back to like the 90s. You could buy one of these books, like Important Thoughts from President Clinton, and then you realize the whole book is empty. There are no important thoughts. This applies quite literally to Biden. You know, this is. This is the Biden record of what Biden. A chronicle of the things that Biden himself did.

[Debbie]

You think Biden is actually the one pushing for this library, or do you think it's Dr. Joe Biden?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure it's the people around Biden.

[Debbie]

I don't think Biden. I don't think he cares. He probably doesn't even know he's not president anymore.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right. Remember Trump's idea from a few years ago, which is to. Or was this our idea? Sometimes I forget what the genesis of these ideas are. But the idea was, even when Biden was president, remove him from the White House, relocate him to a replica of the White House where he can honestly believe he is the president. People come in and bring him documents to sign. It's all a charade. He's not signing any real documents.

[Debbie]

I think that's what actually happened.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

You're saying that that's the actual record of the four years?

[Debbie]

I think so, yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It's going to be really.

[Debbie]

Remember, it was the auto pen that did most of the signing.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I don't know if we will be there to see it, but historians are going to look back on this presidency and they're going to wonder what really happened. I mean, we were there so we kind of know what happened, but they're going to scratch their heads and go, was it really the case that the country was governed by a non compost mentis? Not all there. I mean this is like the plot of Being there, right, where you have a guy, Chance the Gardener, I guess he was called Peter Sellers. And we lived through that. Hard to believe, but it was, it was put in place by the other side for its own nefarious Mike Lindell will tell you this year has been, well, maybe the hardest one in MyPillow's history. But it's because of you that these guys are making it through. And Mike Lindell and Mike Pillow want to thank you for your continued support. They want to pass on some Christmas specials to my viewers and listeners. So get the Children's Bible Story Pillow 5 pack for $29.98. My slippers with a free bottle of leather protect and spray for $39.98, blankets, comforters and duvets for as low as $25 and a blowout sale on the standard MyPillows for just $14.98. Go to MyPillow.com or call 800-876-0227. Use promo code Dinesh, Take advantage of these wholesale prices including the standard size MyPillow originally $49.98, now just $14.98. By the way, queen size $18.99. King's only a dollar more. You know that MyPillow products come with a 10 year warranty, but MyPillow is announced they're extending their 60 day money back guarantee. That's right. Orders placed between now and December 25th will have their 60 day money back guarantee extended through March 1st, 2026. Call 800-876-0227 or go to mypillow.com don't forget to use the promo code. It's dash I N E S H.

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[Dinesh D'Souza]

All right, let's talk about, we talked.

[Debbie]

About the CNN article.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Let's talk about the CNN article because we're kind of on that topic and.

[Debbie]

Then we'll get it real quick.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah, the article is right here.

[Debbie]

It made me so incredibly mad.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Trump tests the First Amendment. A timeline I've already juggling.

[Debbie]

I mean, it is incredible.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

You just read the. Read a little bit because, because you want people to get a direct feel for the underlying, like, preposterous arrogance of this.

[Debbie]

Yeah. Within weeks of retaking the White House, President Donald Trump boasted that he had brought free speech back to America. But since then, he has tested the limits of the First Amendment time and time again, stoking alarm among civil rights experts and his critics. The First Amendment protects the freedom of religion, speech and press, the right to peaceful assembly, the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. It also bars the government from enacting laws that prevent the free exercise of these rights. Nonetheless, nonetheless, nonetheless, through executive orders, lawsuits and truth social posts, the Trump administration has gone after protesters, universities, news organizations, law firms, and speakers it doesn't agree with. And I was like, where were they? Not just for the last four years of Biden, but the previous four, the previous eight years of Obama. Like, why weren't they saying this then? Because I tell you what, I saw more people go to jail for what? You know, because they didn't believe in what the government was touting in these, in those, I guess, 12 years.

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[Dinesh D'Souza]

So this is how I think about it, which is that it's very natural for us to draw out these double standards, right? And we draw out the double standards to expose the fact that they are seemingly blind to the greater violations on their own side, while they passionately highlight the much more minuscule violations from our side. Right. But here's my point. I think that their true position, which they never state, is in fact different than this. Their true position is that censorship should be allowed when they do it and not allowed when we do it. They can shut down their opponents, but we can't. They can stack the court, but we must not. If they find that there's a dangerous Republican like Trump running for office, it's okay for them to try to find some pretext and lock him up. Whereas if we were to do that, that would be. So. So the way they think about all this is their side good, our side evil. So whatever evil people are doing should be condemned. Whatever the good people are doing should always be excused because they're doing it in the name of some good. Why are they locking up Trump? Because he's a bad guy. He would ruin the country. And so of course you want to lock him up to make the country better. So that's their real position. So in some ways, for us to highlight these double standards doesn't really get to them because they don't believe in a single standard. They don't believe in applying even standards to everybody. They don't believe all men are created equal. They believe that your camp is the bad team and our camp is the good team. So we should be able to get away with it and you should be held accountable regardless of how minuscule your infractions.

[Debbie]

And they own the megaphones of information. So when you have an entity that owns the megaphones of information, the information that comes out of those entities is always going to be that same side and it's always going to say we're the bad guys, even though that's, we know that's not the truth. We know which, which side is actually evil and which side actually isn't evil. But because they own the megaphones of information, we're kind of at a standstill.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, you, you have two camps on their side. On the one hand, you have, you would call it, the manufacturers of the lie. And that's the people who write these articles. That's Jake Tapper, that's the editors of the New York Times. These people actually, they know the facts of the matter, but they're going to selectively portray a very twisted and spun narrative. Now you have the rank and file Democrat who is in a different position. Right. Because that guy honestly doesn't know what the Democrats did in comparison to Trump. In fact, that guy has been a consumer of CNN and all the other different NPR and New York Times, Boston Globe, Washington Post. So if you stop that guy on the street, he'll be like, oh, no, we weren't censoring anybody. What are you even talking about? And then if you say, well, what about all the censorship on Twitter? He'll say, well, those are private platforms.

[Debbie]

Yeah, yeah. What about all the people that went to jail or were.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, weren't they trying to overthrow the government? So, in other words, these are people who will spit back.

[Debbie]

Didn't we do a movie called Police State?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

We did.

[Debbie]

During what was a police state? I mean.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right. And, you know, and in fairness, we could not make that movie about the Trump administration. And even the examples you just gave things like his true social posts. Well, how does that. How does that undermine anybody's rights?

[Debbie]

You know, and this is what. Why I got really mad when I read this, because I was like, where were they when they were shutting us up? When we said the election was stolen? We were. We were being deplatformed everywhere. We couldn't say that.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

I mean, they were locking up pro lifers for speech.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

What do you think Bevelyn Beatty was doing if not free speech? And yet she gets prosecuted under the Face Act.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So they. What they do is they redescribe the free speech. She was really loud. She was in the wrong place. She was standing behind the door. So we're not prosecuting her for a speech, we're prosecuting her for her, quote, interference. But where's the interference? What. What did she do? They made it up.

[Debbie]

They made it up. They make everything up. And then, not only that, but they. It's. It's like they're the biggest gaslighters on the planet. Not only do they. Do they say things like their unsubstantiated claim of voter fraud.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

You know, like, they already have established that it's not that it didn't happen. And, I mean, look at. Look at how they're trying to destroy you on about 2,000 mules.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, this came up in my debate with this Destiny guy in Washington, D.C. steve Bunnell. And when 2,000 mules came up, so I said to him, I go, well, do you accept the reliability of cell phone geo tracking? He goes, yeah, I do. And then I said, can you give me a reason why someone would want to go to 10 or more drop boxes in the election season? Even in the case we are dropping off, let's say, some ballots for family members? You'd go to one box and put all the ballots in. Why would you go to multiple boxes, let alone 10. And this Bonnell guy goes, well, are you talking about over like a 30 day period or a 60 day period? And I go, yeah. And he goes, well, I can think of lots of good reasons. And I go, well, name one. And so apparently this guy didn't know that a mail in Dropbox is not a mailbox because he thought, well, some old guy goes and mails his utility bill and then he goes back into another box and mails his rent check.

[Debbie]

No, these were only for.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right. So when I point this out, I could see the panic in his eyes because essentially he was like, oh, I didn't realize that these boxes are not for normal mail. They're only for balance.

[Debbie]

And look, even if you, let's say you don't have the geo tracking, but you have the videos, right. We know for a fact that these people that were in those videos that had stacks of ballots.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

Multiple places. Right. Because the video showed them in multiple places putting in all these ballots. You know, that's not legal.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Let's put it right. Let's say at the very least, this like screams for further investigation.

[Debbie]

Yeah. And that to me is, is the reason that I am so upset. Because nothing was followed up.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Nothing was. Nothing was followed up. I do think that the geo tracking is very damning on its own because, I mean, we know that. Look at these cases we've been even talking about. How do you think they're tracking these people if not through cell phones?

[Debbie]

Well, they did that with January Sixers.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And they did it with, you know, what's his name, Coburger. In the Idaho case, geo tracking is become the routine, if not the preferred way to monitor people's movements. Right. And it's considered maybe not infallible, but it's not infallible because it could be my phone and you could have my phone, but the movement of the phone itself is not open to dispute.

[Debbie]

That's right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

All right.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Let's talk about Venezuela.

[Debbie]

Venezuela.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And let me ask you this. Do you think, you know, you have, you have certainly lived the 10 or 11 years we've known each other in eager anticipation of what seems to be happening now. You think it's gonna happen?

[Debbie]

I pray it does.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah.

[Debbie]

Yeah. Because it's, it's, it's now or never.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It is now or never. You know, I was, I must confess I was a little disheartened when Israel was on the verge of knocking out the mullahs in Iran. And I'm sure there were a lot of Iranians who were like, oh, my gosh, it's coming, it's coming, it's here. Oh, and then it's almost like at the last minute, it happened also with Saddam Hussein, if you remember, they chase him back to this is, by the way, in the first Gulf War, and then they let him go. Yeah, they let it be. And similarly here. And.

[Debbie]

Yeah. But, you know, when. When it comes to regime changes, and I've told you this before, I'm not in favor of regime changes when it's an Islamic country, because it happens. It so happens that usually it. It's worse.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Case in point, Syria.

[Debbie]

Yes. Usually it's go from Bashar aside, case in point, Iraq.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Case in point, Iraq. Yeah.

[Debbie]

You know, so.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

So case in point. Yes. Saddam was.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

At the very least.

[Debbie]

Look at, look at. What was the guy's name? Gaddafi.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

In Libya.

[Debbie]

In Libya. I mean, look what happened there. So what I mean is sometimes bad is better than the worst.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

You know, that's the, that's, that's the rule that Jimmy Carter flagrantly ignored.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

When he essentially helped to destabilize the Shah.

[Debbie]

That's right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And got Khomeini. Carter's point is the Shah is a bad guy. Well, that's debatable. But let's say. Let's concede the premise. Khomeini was indisputably much, much worse.

[Debbie]

Much worse. Yeah. So. But in Venezuela, because it's not an Islamic country, it is a narco terror. It's a narco terrorist situation here. And this man is vile. Vile. He has. Not only has he done, like, horrific things to his own people, but he's also a kind of an enabler of cartels, you know, even, even, you know, drugs that are coming into America. What about all the criminals that came during the Biden administration? And because he let them go, he let. He actually enabled them to come to America. He's done a lot of really bad things. And Venezuela is a very good country to have as an ally because of their natural resources and also just because of the landing pad situation. Right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It's kind of part of the Monroe.

[Debbie]

Doctrine, in a way.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It's our backyard. And not to mention the fact that, you know, I'm thinking of the Javier Millay map where he shows that the southern part of the continent has all gone conservative.

[Debbie]

Yes.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And it's now encroaching on the northern part of the continent, which, by the way, includes Brazil. It also includes Venezuela. So it would be very nice to start seeing the northern part of the Continent also going in the MAGA direction.

[Debbie]

No, it would be a dream. Serious. A dream come true. I mean, really, I can't even tell you. But we'll see, right?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

We're going to talk about the Trump Kennedy Center.

[Debbie]

Well, do you want to talk about that? Because we also have the camel coming up.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, let's do the Trump Kennedy Center, Kennedy center, briefly, and then we'll do the camera.

[Debbie]

So the Trump Kennedy center is hilarious because that is one of Trump's greatest trolls. Troll acts.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

You mean renaming the Kennedy center the Trump Kennedy Center?

[Debbie]

You know, it's funny because I heard his speech at the dinner, the Kennedy Center Honors Dinner. I was watching it the other night.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah.

[Debbie]

And he said that. But as a kind of a Freudian slip, he goes, and the Trump. I mean, the Kennedy, you know, and so I kind of. Because everybody chuckled, I kind of thought, I bet you he's gonna want to change the name.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

You thought so?

[Debbie]

Yeah, but he's put in a lot of his own money to fix this center. I mean, his own money, not taxpayer money, but his own. So, you know, it is fitting whenever, you know, a donor gives a wing to a hospital, right.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They get their name on the.

[Debbie]

Get their name on the, on the wings. Right. So why not Trump? In fact, I would go further and I would just say call it the Trump Center. Forget about the Kennedy.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

2025, it's the Kennedy Center. 2026, it's the Trump Kennedy Center. 2027, it's the Trump Center, Kennedy disappears. Yeah, yeah, Right? Yeah. All right, talk about the camera. I got to give you the article here. This is something that you found. Oh, my God. And you were laughing about it.

[Debbie]

First of all. First of all.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, I mean, laughing, chuckling about it.

[Debbie]

I want to apologize because as you know, I am a little mamby pamby and so I don't like making fun of things, of people getting hurt. But I was watching a clip on Facebook about a woman, and this is just crazy. A woman survives a camel kick.

[Ann Wilson]

Hey girl. Yes, you. You are seen, you are loved. And you were made for more. Created especially for teen girls. Chart topping Christian art artist Ann Wilson invites you to her 40 day devotional hey girl. Through honest stories, scripture and journal prompts, Anne talks about real struggles, comparison, insecurity, doubt and faith, reminding you that God is always near and fighting for you. Hey, girl. From Caleb Books. Get your copy [e-mail] books.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, first of all, you know, it'd be one thing if the woman went to the zoo or she was On a Kenyan safari, or she was in the Kalahari Desert. But this is a woman who went to church.

[Debbie]

She went to church.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And it was a mega church.

[Debbie]

It was a mega.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

This was obviously one of these megachurches that likes to put on a spectacular display. And what did they have?

[Debbie]

Yes. So basically it was a Christmas special that they had. And you know how away in the manger, you have. You have the kings and you have the camels and the horses and all that? Well, apparently, because this is a really large church. Church. You have aisles and so the kings and. And the pilgrims, or whatever you call them. I don't know if you call them pilgrims. But anyway, they. They were coming down the aisle like a procession. Like a procession. And here comes this very large camel.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

A real camel.

[Debbie]

A real camel. Right. And so someone's videotaping it, and all of a sudden the hind leg of the camel does this, like, sweet soccer punch. Like, boom.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Wow.

[Debbie]

To this woman. And I don't know if it hit her face or what. I couldn't see what the. The video wasn't that clear, but clearly she was knocked out cold. And the people that were around her knew this was happening. And this guy was. He even stood up because he was like. He got away from the camel. He didn't want to be anywhere near that camel.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

He's like, not me next.

[Debbie]

And so the person that's holding the. Or walking the camel has no idea, but he's looking around like, what's going on? You know?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

And what's this little disruption?

[Debbie]

What's this disruption? Had no idea his camel kicked anybody. And the camel is just walking along, you know, almost like. Like the sneaky brother that pinches his sibling and it just keeps going, you know?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Right.

[Debbie]

Yeah. And so. So anyway, apparently this woman was. Was hurt. She was seriously hurt by this camel because apparently they're very strong. Very, very strong.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Camels are large animals. I mean, I've ridden them occasionally. And even getting on a camel is a very strange experience because, as you know, the camel doesn't stand up straight. Oh, what happened? So the camel is like this. And when you sit on the camel, the first thing that happens is their butts go like six feet up in the air and you slide down to the front, and then the front part of the camera lifts up and you slide back down to them. So it's a very. No now. Then what? Then it stabilizes and the camel is good to go.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

But the camel does not rise.

[Debbie]

Strange animals.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They're strange animals.

[Debbie]

Strange looking. But Anyway, so back to this woman.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

That's why. That's why the old saying that a camel is a horse designed by a committee. You haven't heard that?

[Debbie]

I've never heard that.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Oh, yeah. It's like when you get up a committee, they take a horse and it gets it. Yeah. This is what you end up with.

[Debbie]

Well, apparently, the camel, very large, very strong, sends this woman to the hospital. They. They literally. The ambulance comes during the performance. The ambulance comes, picks up this lady, takes her to the hospital, and the pastor goes.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It's a small price to play for this great celebration. This. This great extravaganza.

[Debbie]

I mean, really. So. So my thought is this. Okay, you can actually have people dress up like camels. I've seen that before, where there's a person in the front, a person in the back, and they have the humps and they're walking. You know, why did they have to have a real camel?

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Well, not only do these. I'll tell you why. Because the. And the answer is not all that flattering. It is that, unfortunately, some of these mega churches have too much money. No, they. Well, they have become. They have become religious entertainment.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

You know, and they believe that the way to keep people in the pews is by ever increasing dramatic spectacles.

[Debbie]

Well, they did that, for sure.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it starts off with, like, let's do, like, a light show, and then let's have, like, 300 people in the choir. And so it's like, let's put on a Broadway production. And then. All right, well, we're gonna do Christmas now. We need to do a little better than the church down the street, which has only, like, 100 people. Well, how do we do it? Let's bringing a real camel that's gonna knock people's socks off.

[Debbie]

And it knocked her socks off.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

It knocked her socks off. And maybe, you know, maybe dislocated her chin. We don't know.

[Debbie]

No, but the comments. Those were the fun.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

That.

[Debbie]

That's why I was laughing so hard. Not because of what happened to this poor woman.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

But the comments, people and people on social media are extremely amusing.

[Debbie]

Oh, my.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

They will. Particularly when you have something like this. That. That is a little dark, but lends itself to comedy. People go all out.

[Debbie]

Oh, my goodness. So, yeah, so, you know, let's. Let's keep our celebrations less dangerous. Just saying.

[Dinesh D'Souza]

Not a bad idea. Subscribe to the Dinesh d' Souza podcast.

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[Dinesh D'Souza]

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[Ann Wilson]

Hey, girl. Yes, you you are seen, you are loved and you were made for more. Created especially for teen girls, chart topping Christian artist Ann Wilson invites you to her 40 day devotional hey Girl. Through honest stories, scripture and journal prompts and talks about real struggles, comparison, insecurity, doubt and faith, reminding you that God is always near and fighting for you. Hey Girl From Caleb Books. Get your copy [e-mail] books.