The Dispatch Podcast – “Are Vaccines Still In?” (Feb 3, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Steve Hayes is joined by contributors Jonah Goldberg, Megan McArdle, Kevin Williamson, Mike Warren, and guest Dr. Emily Oster, professor of economics at Brown University and Dispatch contributor. The panel tackles a wide-ranging set of topics: the controversial trimming of CDC childhood vaccine recommendations under HHS Secretary RFK Jr., newly revised dietary health guidelines, public reaction and policy criticism, the ethics of public health communication, and other current political topics such as Don Lemon’s arrest, credit card fee caps, the Epstein document dump, and changes at Southwest Airlines.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. CDC Childhood Vaccine Recommendations Rolled Back

• Context: HHS, led by Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., unilaterally cut the list of universally recommended childhood vaccines from 17 to about 11, omitting the normal CDC committee review process (ACIP).
• Emily Oster on Why the Change Happened:
  “This was outside of that process, like unilateral decision from the health Secretary... I think the answer is because they felt like it... because RFK and a number of other people feel that there were too many vaccines.” (02:44)
• Implications: Key vaccines, e.g., flu, rotavirus, hepatitis B, were moved from “universally recommended” to “discuss with your doctor.” Oster predicts this undermines public trust in vaccines and may accelerate falling vaccination rates, potentially widening health inequality.
  “This is both designed and in practice, will erode trust in vaccines broadly... I think we will continue to see that decline across all vaccines.” (04:38)

Notable Quote

• “If you say things that are not true, even if there's a good reason for it, if you say something that's not true and people find that out, you lose people's trust. And trust is very easy to lose and very hard to get back once you've lost it.”
  — Emily Oster, on the importance of truth in public health messaging (15:06)

2. Vaccine Mandates and State Policy

• Florida Example: State Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo, echoing the federal change, is pushing to remove vaccine mandates from schools, leading to a patchwork of policy among the states.
  “The next step, I think, is to end vaccine mandates in schools... We will see a sort of bifurcation of places.” (05:53)
• Equity Concerns: Oster warns that children from lower-resource families risk falling further behind in protection and care.

3. Revised Dietary Guidelines – A Positive Reception

• What Changed: HHS released a condensed, simplified set of dietary recommendations, shifting from the old food pyramid to an “inverted” version, but without fundamental shifts in nutritional emphasis.
• Oster’s Take:
  “For all of the kind of commentary about the inverting of the pyramid and the size of the steak... if you read the text of the recommendation, it doesn't move very far from what has been true for a long time... The administration made a big deal about shortening these guidelines. And I will say I thought that was...very good.” (08:06)
• Allergen Advice: “If every parent introduced these allergens early on in life... we would see a dramatic reduction in food allergies.” (09:28)
• Protein Up, Carbs Down: Oster notes the new guidelines recommend 50–100% more protein, but this is intended for active individuals and as a substitute for carbs/fats—not just “add an omelet to every meal” (11:00).

Memorable Quote

• “I wouldn't just, like, add a ton of eggs. I think closer...replace your breakfast cereal with eggs.”
  — Emily Oster (11:00)

4. Pushback and Ethics of Public Health Communication

• Oster’s Criticism: Oster received backlash for lauding the dietary guidelines in the New York Times, particularly given RFK Jr.’s controversial vaccine stance. Critics accused her of “sanewashing” the administration.
• Her Response:
  “I find it to be an interesting perspective...the most important thing for retaining people’s trust is to say things that are true.” (12:42, 15:06)

Panel Discussion

• Steve Hayes, Kevin Williamson, and Mike Warren debate the responsibilities of journalists and experts: whether to praise good policy even if it comes from generally distrusted sources.
• Kevin: “Our role as journalists and as opinion journalists specifically is just to say what we actually think... because we're in the journalism business, not the political comms business...” (30:08)

5. Media Ethics, Public Perception, and Audience Trust

• The panel reflects on the need for transparency in journalism, sharing internal processes, and rebuilding trust with skeptical audiences (see 34:56–40:14).

Notable Quotes

• “There's a big gap between how we understand what we do and how the people who consume journalism broadly understand what we do.”
  — Steve Hayes (35:05)
• “In the long run, actually credibility comes when you say the thing that people are going to get mad about again, if it's true...”
  — Mike Warren (41:48)

Other Major Segment Summaries

6. Don Lemon’s Arrest & The First Amendment (21:27–32:14)

• Background: Don Lemon was arrested inside a Minnesota church protest. His defense: attending as a journalist, not a protester.
• Kevin Williamson’s Argument:
  Laws shouldn’t privilege “journalists” over others; “What the First Amendment protects is not a class of people. It protects an activity...” (22:05)
• Policy Anecdote: The law Lemon broke was initially aimed at abortion clinic protests (the FACE Act).
• Conclusion: Civl disobedience and reporting are protected—but don’t exempt you from legal consequences if you break the law.

7. Biden/Trump: The Affordability Gap & Credit Card Fee Caps (45:29–58:39)

• Context: Trump, despite projecting economic optimism, is pushing populist measures (like capping credit card interest at 10%) that suggest recognition of affordability woes.
• Analysis:
  • Mike Warren: Both parties are abandoning trust in markets: “There's a profound distrust for markets and what markets tell us about prices...” (49:37)
  • Kevin Williamson: Capping interest rates results not in cheaper credit, but in less or no credit for low-income people.
    “Prices reflect underlying realities... when you artificially raise the price for something, you will see less consumption of it...when you artificially lower the price...you end up with rationing and shortages.” (53:30)
  • On mortgage reform: “50 year mortgages...Just the dumbest thing... we're going to give you a loan that you can pay off when you're 75 years old. That's just bananas.” (56:21)

8. Epstein Document Dump (58:39–68:34)

• Context: 3 million pages of Jeffrey Epstein–related documents released, containing potentially damaging information about people who interacted with him.
• Mike Warren: Cautions against sensational media claims based on thin context. Highlights Tina Brown example, where email evidence is exculpatory, not incriminating.
  “It's a document dump and I have no way of knowing what's valid, what's not valid... there's a real trust problem...” (60:12)
• Kevin Williamson:
  The Epstein story blurs lines between abuse, prostitution, and exploitation, and reflects the danger of unchecked power and moral degradation among elite men.
  “Jeffrey Epstein is probably a pretty good example of what male libido, liberated from consequences and constraints and morality... ends up being.” (66:07)

9. Southwest Airlines Policy Changes: Worth the Loyalty? (68:34–83:06)

• Background: Southwest ends first-come, first-served seating and free bag checks, becoming more like other airlines.
• Mike Warren: Loyal customer, dislikes change: “It was really kind of a quirky and special airline... created, I think, some loyalty out of a customer base that... we're losing.” (69:38)
• Steve Hayes: Observes “culture shock” as customers are crammed in back rows, while paid seats up front remain empty—the shift may backfire if loyalty is lost.
• Kevin Williamson:
  “God bless America. We don’t have a class system here. We just have money.” (81:25)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “This is both designed and in practice, will erode trust in vaccines broadly.”
  — Emily Oster (04:38)

• “The most important thing for retaining people's trust is to say things that are true.”
  — Emily Oster (15:06)

• “Our role as journalists and as opinion journalists specifically is just to say what we actually think about stuff and not to try to be, like, clever political consultants about it.”
  — Kevin Williamson (30:08)

• “There's a big gap between how we understand what we do and how the people who consume journalism broadly understand what we do.”
  — Steve Hayes (35:05)

• “In the long run... credibility comes when you say the thing that people are going to get mad about again, if it's true...”
  — Mike Warren (41:48)

• “Prices are the wrong way to do that. If you want to increase the material well-being of poor people... the easiest thing to do is give them money.”
  — Kevin Williamson (53:30)

• “Jeffrey Epstein is probably a pretty good example of what male libido, liberated from consequences and constraints and morality and other limiting factors ends up being.”
  — Kevin Williamson (66:07)

• “God bless America. We don’t have a class system here. We just have money.”
  — Kevin Williamson (81:25)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• CDC Vaccine Policy Discussion: 01:12–07:48
• Dietary Guidelines & Public Health Communication: 07:48–16:48
• Journalism Ethics and Trust: 21:27–41:48
• Credit Card Fees/Affordability: 45:29–58:39
• Epstein File Dump: 58:39–68:34
• Southwest Airlines Debate: 68:34–83:06

Tone and Language

The conversation is thoughtful, candid, and sometimes irreverent—packed with expertise, dry humor, and clear attempts to encourage trust through transparency and accuracy. There is a consistent emphasis on honesty, skepticism of power (from government or elites), and a desire to respect the intelligence of the audience.

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode of The Dispatch Podcast grapples with timely political and policy issues, from vaccine recommendations and nutrition guidelines to media trust, government price controls, and changing airline cultures. Through substantive analysis and honest disagreement, the panel models a journalistic ethos rooted in truth over partisanship and offers listeners both expertise and an inside look at how journalists and analysts tackle complex news.