The Dispatch Podcast: "Is It Time to Panic?"

Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Steve Hayes
Panelists: Jonah Goldberg, David French, Megan McArdle

Overview

This episode of The Dispatch Podcast dives into concerns about increasing government overreach, particularly through the lens of a Washington Post report about a Philadelphia man visited by Homeland Security after sending a harmless email to a government official. The panel explores whether such incidents signal creeping authoritarianism or fascism, debates the usefulness of such terms, and discusses the cyclical nature of norm violations by both political sides. The episode concludes with lighter fare, including Super Bowl coverage and listener stories of bizarre injuries.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Philadelphia Email Episode and Administrative Subpoenas

[02:21–11:20]

• Summary of Events:
  Steve Hayes introduces a Washington Post article where “John,” a retiree, sent a polite, critical email to a DHS prosecutor about deporting an Afghan refugee, only to be swiftly subjected to a legal subpoena and a home visit from Homeland Security officials.

• Concerns Raised:

  • David French frames this as symptomatic of a surveillance state and unprecedented attacks on First Amendment rights:

    “You’re looking at... the creation of what appears to be a version of... a kind of surveillance state.” (05:12, French)

  • Administrative subpoenas are now widely issued without judicial oversight, with cases reportedly rising in frequency.
  • Megan McArdle (09:17) emphasizes the danger of expanding government power, regardless of which party is in charge:

    “Every time you think about something good the government could do, just think about all the bad things the powers you’re creating could do.”

2. Are We Becoming Like Europe? Surveillance and State Overreach

[14:06–19:10]

• Steve Hayes and Jonah Goldberg compare the increased surveillance and suppression of dissent in the US to similar trends in the UK and Europe.
• Jonah Goldberg notes:

  “The UK embraced omnipresent panopticon surveillance... but the Trump administration’s motivations and methods are different—more about punishing enemies than nanny statism.” (14:54, Goldberg)

• The discussion draws a line between leftist "soft totalitarianism" and the more punitive, power-entrenching authoritarianism of the current right.

3. Norm Violations and Tit-for-Tat Politics

[19:20–25:55]

• The panel agrees norm violations by both sides have created cycles of worsening retaliation, though the Trump era is described as a dramatic escalation.
• Goldberg observes:

  “Very few people want to be constrained by the principles they claim to have... but they want to have those principles near to hand to use as weapons against their enemies.” (14:54, Goldberg)

• McArdle and French analyze the psychological drivers of MAGA supporters, noting sincere feelings of marginalization and past left-wing overreach, especially during what’s termed the “Great Awokening.”

4. Cancel Culture: Left and Right Illiberalism

[25:55–32:33]

• David French acknowledges the illiberalism of progressive cancel culture but insists the right has now matched and surpassed it—especially in overt, governmental suppression of dissent.

  “...Two competing, deeply illiberal movements arising... But if you are passing unconstitutional policies and then complying with court orders when you’re called on it, you are straining the rule of law... but when you have... illegal actions and then you refuse to comply with court orders, you are shattering the rule of law.” (29:20, French)

5. Memory, Grievance, and Selective Outrage

[32:33–35:33]

• Megan McArdle points out how partisans forget their own side’s norm violations—a cycle fueling mutual grievance.

  “You remember the stuff that made you mad, but you have to remember [others] remember all the stuff that made them mad.” (31:04, McArdle)

6. Fundamentalism, Group Solidarity, and Illiberalism

[36:00–39:06]

• David French identifies a troubling trend: religious fundamentalism on the right crossing into totalitarian instincts and brutality:

  “You scratch a fundamentalist and right underneath the surface is a totalitarian... And that is in many ways I think the difference between what we endured through the awokening and what we’re enduring now.” (36:02 & 37:38, French)

7. Debating the Usefulness of "Fascism" and "Totalitarianism"

[40:06–50:59]

• Is it helpful or counterproductive to label Trumpism “fascist” or “totalitarian”?
• Megan McArdle cautions:

  “When you say Trump is a fascist... you sound deranged. Because what their picture of fascism is, is that Hitler is sweeping people off the streets...” (41:00, McArdle)

• David French responds that while such language repels moderates, it’s important to recognize genuine dangers and warn about the fundamentalist elements on the right:

  “You are in bed with some vipers, man... These folks are actually ultimately your enemy.” (48:37, French)

• Goldberg jokes, referencing his book "Liberal Fascism":

  “My goal was to get people to stop using the word fascism. And I utterly failed... The word fascism is used... to galvanize support on the left, not as a way to convert people who aren’t already converted.” (53:28, Goldberg)

8. Panel’s Preferred Language for Current Threats

• Goldberg advocates for terms like “Un-American,” arguing they capture the danger without falling into rhetorical traps.

  “Un-American works just fine for me.” (58:41, Goldberg)

• McArdle agrees, emphasizing a patriotic opposition to the current administration’s excesses:

  “A lot of us oppose Trump because we are intensely patriotic and we believe in the Constitution and all of the ideals of our founders, and this is not that.” (58:41, McArdle)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Libertarian Wisdom
  • McArdle: “The libertarian argument has always been: what if someone bad was in charge of it? …It is actually really dangerous to enhance government power.” [09:17]
• On Tit-for-Tat Norm Violations
  • Goldberg: “Every time you violate a norm, you give the opposition permission to violate it even worse…” [19:10]
• On Totalitarian Tendencies
  • French: “You scratch a fundamentalist and right underneath the surface is a totalitarian.” [36:02]
• On the Futility of ‘Fascist’ Rhetoric
  • McArdle: “‘Fascism’ and ‘totalitarianism’ are not additive words in that battle… They are instead subtractive words in the core goal of trying to refute what is being done now.” [46:50]
• On “Un-American” as Label
  • Goldberg: “Un-American works just fine for me.” [58:41]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Time (MM:SS) | |------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------| | Intro & Setup: The Philly DHS Visit | 02:21–05:12 | | Administrative Subpoenas & Surveillance | 05:12–09:17 | | Expansion of Govt Power: Libertarian Concerns | 09:17–11:20 | | Comparison to UK/Europe Overreach | 14:06–19:10 | | Norms, Tit-for-Tat Politics, Origins of MAGA Rage | 19:20–25:55 | | Cancel Culture, Both Sides’ Illiberalism | 25:55–32:33 | | Memory, Selective Outrage, Grievance | 32:33–35:33 | | Fundamentalism & Totalitarian Impulses | 36:00–39:06 | | Language: "Fascism," "Totalitarianism," & Persuasion | 40:06–50:59 | | Jonah on "Liberal Fascism" & Definitions | 52:59–58:41 | | Concluding Discussion: Best Terms for Current Era | 58:41–59:11 | | Not Worth Your Time: Super Bowl, Sports, Listener Stories | 60:20–72:10 |

Lighter Fare: Super Bowl & Listener Injuries

[60:20–73:39]

• Super Bowl Preferences:
  Panelists joke about football, ads, and the cultural spectacle; McArdle expresses discomfort watching football due to players’ injuries.
• Bizarre Injury Stories:
  Steve Hayes reads listener submissions and shares panel anecdotes—ranging from wardrobe malfunctions to traumatic encounters with mattress springs and acorns.

Takeaways

• The episode is a sobering, nuanced look at escalating government overreach and the risks of norm violation cycles, drawing distinctions between varying types of illiberalism and warning against unhelpful, inflammatory labeling—while maintaining a sense of humor and hope for institutional recovery.
• The panel agrees that battling these tendencies requires a commitment to institutional norms, sober language, and a broader, cross-partisan awareness of each side’s history of excesses.

Suggested Further Reading

• David French, "This is Not a Drill" (New York Times) – on the perilous state of elections ([referenced at 59:11])
• Jonah Goldberg, "Liberal Fascism" – for deeper context on the misuses of “fascism”

For more Dispatch Podcast episodes and show notes, visit thedispatch.com.