The Dispatch Podcast – "Right-Wing Theater Kids"

Release Date: January 30, 2026
Host: Steve Hayes
Panelists: Jonah Goldberg, Kevin Williamson, Megan McArdle

Episode Overview

This roundtable episode tackles some of the most pressing issues dominating the news, focusing on the aftermath of the killing of Alex Preddy in Minneapolis, evolving Trump administration tactics, law enforcement culture, and immigration policy. The panel discusses both domestic and international crises, including the massacre of protesters in Iran and potential US responses. As always, they close with their signature lighter segment, sharing stories of “old man injuries.”

Key Topics and Discussion Points

1. The Alex Preddy Shooting and its Fallout

(00:00–24:48)

• Breaking Through the National Consciousness:
  The shooting of Alex Preddy has resonated beyond the usual political followers, drawing commentary from celebrities and international figures. The incident is seen as a tipping point in public sentiment regarding aggressive law enforcement tactics and immigration enforcement.

• Trump Administration's Response:
  Megan McArdle opines that the administration is belatedly realizing its typical gaslighting “Jedi mind trick” strategies—spinning false narratives—are failing due to overwhelming public evidence and backlash.

  “I expect changes because I think the administration has belatedly realized that the Jedi mind trick strategy... is not gonna work.” – Megan McArdle (04:12)

• Personnel Shifts Signal a Retreat:
  Trump is seen as politically sensitive and willing to change course when backlash threatens his standing, as perhaps indicated by emerging personnel changes and Kristi Noem potentially being “quietly separated.”

• Changing Law Enforcement Culture:
  There’s concern about ICE and Border Patrol’s recruitment tactics, with lowered standards and less training leading to a more thuggish culture among agents (09:15).

• Permission Structures for Violence:
  Steve Hayes raises a key question on whether Trump’s rhetoric effectively gives “permission structures” for aggressive law enforcement.

  “When you use that kind of language, and you use it repeatedly over a decade, don't you help set... the environment for cops to behave in this way?” – Steve Hayes (11:55)

• Trump’s Staffing Patterns:
  Kevin Williamson laments Trump’s repeated hiring of “bad people,” attributing it to hiring mainly for loyalty and media presence, not management ability.

  “Trump's only real test for people is abject loyalty and media presence.” – Kevin Williamson (13:41)

• Limits of “Reality TV” Politics:
  The panel notes Trump’s reliance on drama and spectacle has political limits:

  “He likes the drama, he likes the theater. That's his main thing. That's really what he's in it for. But it only goes so far.” – Kevin Williamson (15:22)

2. False Narratives and Media Manipulation

(15:53–24:48)

• Rapid, Demonstrably False Claims:
  Repeated falsehoods about protestors—such as branding them as terrorists despite video evidence—are a strategy to shape narratives before public consensus forms.

• Spectacle vs. Professionalism:
  Jonah Goldberg distinguishes between the “right-wing theater kids” (Stephen Miller, Kristi Noem) who want provocative spectacle, and a more professional law enforcement camp (Tom Homan).

  “There are basically two factions... the side that wants spectacle... and a hawkish but actually professional camp... The Nome Miller approach undermines good governance, even if you define good governance as very severe enforcement of immigration law.” – Jonah Goldberg (19:21)

• Immigration Enforcement's Broken Incentives:
  The discussion highlights that performative approaches undermine both public support and the effectiveness of actual policy ends.

• Economic Levers and E-Verify:
  Williamson notes that if the US was serious about reducing illegal immigration, enforcing employment laws and targeting employers would be more effective than theatrical ICE raids.

  “You get rid of the guys in the masks, you bring in the guys with green eyeshades... and you'll know they're serious... the first time some white Republican voting general contractor... goes to prison...” – Kevin Williamson (23:21)

3. Sanctuary Cities Debate

(24:48–39:18)

• Legal and Policy Tensions:
  Steve Hayes reads a 2017 essay summarizing the fundamental conflict over local cooperation with federal immigration authorities.

• Practical vs. Theatrical Policy:
  Williamson and Goldberg stress the need for management and coordination, not just intimidation and spectacle, emphasizing how “theatrical tactics and armed masked histrionics” are both morally and practically questionable.

• State vs. Federal Authority:
  The constitutional right of states and cities to set their own policies is dissected, with Goldberg acknowledging being genuinely torn about the best legal and moral way forward.

• Political Dynamics and ‘Baptists and Bootleggers’:
  Jonah notes how activists on both left and right benefit from escalating tensions and narrative simplification, even as nuanced arguments get lost.

4. Comparative Media Reactions: Preddy vs. Rittenhouse

(40:22–46:43)

• Role Reversal in Political Reactions:
  Megan McArdle draws a striking contrast between right and left reactions to Kyle Rittenhouse (2020) versus Alex Preddy, highlighting the deep partisanship in interpreting incidents through tribal lenses.

  “Everyone's trying to turn this into saints and sinners rather than saying... please do not bring your weapon to an anti-ICE action... But we cannot have a situation where unless our citizenry behaves with maximum wisdom all the time, they get executed.” – Megan McArdle (44:08)

• Responsible Gun Ownership:
  Further, both McArdle and Williamson underline that carrying a weapon—including concealed carry—comes with responsibility, but that does not excuse law enforcement from professional restraint.

5. International Crisis: Iran’s Massacre and US Response

(49:14–62:57)

• Scale and Nature of Iran’s Massacres:
  Goldberg describes the brutality and scale of the Iranian regime’s massacre of protesters, differentiating it from legitimate conflict casualties.

  “Iran's not a war zone... a lot of this is going into people's homes, arresting them, executing, torturing them for a bit...” – Jonah Goldberg (51:16)

• US Hesitation and Moral Costs:
  The US response has been bellicose rhetoric without matching action, leading to questions about credibility and the moral consequences of failing to act.

• Possible US Actions and their Limitations:
  Williamson is skeptical both about US military bandwidth and the effectiveness of hypothetical “decapitation strikes,” stressing that “once you're involved, you're involved.”

  “For the Trump administration to do a very Barack Obama style red line... and then say that thing doesn’t happen tends to undermine your credibility.” – Kevin Williamson (58:38)

• Consequences of Trump’s Maximalist Rhetoric:
  McArdle argues that Trump’s negotiation-by-extremes undermines longstanding alliances and soft power, achieving losses with no corresponding gains.

  “We are losing without winning. And it is incredibly distressing. And the idea that this is all some kind of 5D chess, that he's a master strategist. I'm sorry, no.” – Megan McArdle (67:40)

6. Not Worth Your Time: Weird and Old Man Injuries

(68:39–83:49; panel stories throughout)

• Panelists trade stories of odd, embarrassing, and “old person” injuries, including:
  • Steve Hayes’s epic slip on ice, likened to a turtle stuck on its back (68:39).
  • Megan McArdle’s “turtling” while hiking, walking into a cabinet door, and ER visits (74:39).
  • Jonah Goldberg’s run-in with a deer, injury from playing with butane at his fire pit, and hair/fire disasters (76:52, 77:03).
  • Kevin Williamson’s repeated “scoping” (being hit by a rifle scope) and his unusual resilience, despite a history of risky, unhealthy behaviors (81:19).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On False Narratives and Spectacle in Government:

  “The short answer is because they're what social scientists call liars.” – Jonah Goldberg (16:44)

• On ICE and Law Enforcement Recruitment:

  “They've [the government] gone on sort of a recruitment surge. They have lowered standards... and I think you're seeing appeals to come work for ICE in a way that's recruiting people who might behave in the way that you behave.” – Steve Hayes (09:15)

• On the Limits of Trump’s 'Reality Show' Presidency:

  “He likes the drama, he likes the theater... But it only goes so far. Now, it goes farther, I think, than any of us thought it would in 2015 or 2016. It goes real, real far. But there are limits to it...” – Kevin Williamson (15:22)

• On Leadership and US Credibility Abroad:

  “Ideally, it’d be better if you were both [trusted ally and feared enemy]... Our friends definitely don't trust us anymore. And our enemies are starting to discover their reasons not to be that afraid of us.” – Kevin Williamson (58:38)

• On Political Tribalism and Moral Consistency:

  “Everyone's trying to turn this into saints and sinners rather than saying... please do not bring your weapon to an anti-ICE action... But we cannot have a situation where unless our citizenry behaves with maximum wisdom all the time, they get executed.” – Megan McArdle (44:08)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Alex Preddy Shooting & Administration Response: 00:00–24:48
• False Narratives and Law Enforcement Tactics: 15:53–24:48
• Sanctuary Cities and State vs. Federal Power: 24:48–39:18
• Media & Political Role Reversal (Rittenhouse/Preddy): 40:22–46:43
• Iran Massacre and US Foreign Policy: 49:14–62:57
• Old Man & Weird Injury Stories: 68:39–83:49

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a nuanced look at how narrative, media, and political theater drive policy and public reaction in the current American climate, connecting these themes from domestic law enforcement controversies to global crises. The panel’s ability to debate sharply while also reflecting on their own foibles provides both insight and levity—making this a quintessential Dispatch roundtable.