The Dispatch Podcast – "The Public Shifts on Immigration"

Date: January 16, 2026
Host: Mike Warren (filling in for Steve Hayes)
Panelists: Jonah Goldberg, Sarah Isgur, Grayson Log

Episode Overview

This episode of The Dispatch Podcast explores the shifting public attitudes toward immigration enforcement in the wake of recent controversial ICE actions in Minnesota and a high-profile fatal shooting. The roundtable also delves into the political backlash against the criminal investigation into Fed Chair Jerome Powell, and the growing diplomatic standoff over Greenland. The discussion weaves together polling insights, partisan strategy, American political culture, and the far-reaching implications of recent policy choices.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Public Reaction to Immigration Enforcement and the Minneapolis Shooting

[00:56–14:26]

Main Theme:
The panel examines public opinion dynamics following the tragic shooting of Renee Good by an ICE agent in Minneapolis, referencing new Quinnipiac polling. They debate polling validity, partisan divides, and what the data suggests about a broader shift in the American public’s attitude towards aggressive interior immigration enforcement.

• Polling Data:

  • 57% of Americans disapprove of current ICE enforcement; only 40% approve.
  • 82% claim to have seen video of the shooting.
  • 53% judge the shooting "not justified" (even 59% of independents agree).

• Sarah Isgur’s Analysis ([05:42]):

  • She critiques the limitations of single-issue polling: “You don't really know what question people are answering.… It is showing you something related to immigration enforcement in the country.”
  • Americans are forced to accept a “bundle of sticks” when it comes to immigration—strict border enforcement is popular, aggressive interior action is not, but there is no party matching the public’s nuanced preference.

• Jonah Goldberg’s Take ([09:31]):

  • Argues that political leaders have chosen theatrics and provocation over practical enforcement:
    Quote: "They want the drama in part because Trump... likes the theatrics of strength and he wants to provoke antifa and all of this."
  • Suggests the policies could be “ratcheted back 30–40% and not be underwater with a lot of people,” but that’s not pursued because drama is the point.

• Effect of Social Media Video ([14:26], Mike Warren & Grayson Log):

  • The widespread dissemination of videos is likened to past police violence coverage, driving public opinion immediately and viscerally.

• Broader Political Implications:

  • Concern that demonstrations of “strength” are as much about domestic provocations (against protesters) as immigrant deterrence.

2. How Should Democrats Respond?

[18:24–26:10]

Strategic Challenge:
Mike Warren asks how Democrats should triangulate between base outrage and general election electability, especially for those running in swing states like Texas.

• Sarah’s “Grifter” vs. “West Wing” Approach ([19:34]):

  • "Grifter Sarah": Focus on winning the primary, lean left, avoid “Abolish ICE” soundbites that can hurt in the general.
  • "West Wing Sarah": Admire Rahm Emanuel’s willingness to state unpopular truths in primaries and advocate for more centrist, honest messaging.

• Jonah Goldberg’s Perspective:

  • Argues for the necessity of “two sane parties” and says parties will fall in line after victory:
    Quote ([23:06]): “The party is full of quizzlings and cowards, but they have power structurally in the primaries.… You want virtuous competition where the parties are competing over who is more sane, not over who is more insane.”
  • Sees potential for a Democrat with tough but reasonable immigration rhetoric to occupy the middle ground abandoned by both parties.

3. Criminal Investigation into Fed Chair Jerome Powell

[26:10–50:25]

Backdrop:
The White House faces political fallout after a criminal investigation into Jerome Powell over spiraling renovation costs at the Federal Reserve. The investigation is widely seen as a political pretext rather than substantive criminal wrongdoing.

• Grayson Log ([29:04–32:04]):

  • Describes the inquiry as “lawfare for dummies,” lacking any solid evidence and serving mostly as pressure on Powell.
  • Public accusations of fraud have lacked substance; cost overruns are plausible given DC building projects.

• Sarah Isgur’s DOJ Insight ([32:38]):

  • Notes the President could replace Powell soon anyway—raising questions about the rationale for the investigation.
  • Explains Trump’s indirect leadership style leads subordinates to “think they're acting on your wishes, but in fact they do something really boneheaded because they don't actually understand the full landscape.”

• Jonah Goldberg’s Instinct:

  • Emphasizes the Fed’s unique, quasi-independent place in U.S. government: "If we could amend the Constitution tomorrow to basically instantiate the Fed the way it is right now, I would be for it because it essentially works."
  • Praises Powell for expanding the “scope of conflict” and quickly building bipartisan resistance to the investigation.

• Constitutional/Structural Deep Dive ([41:18–45:53]):

  • Conversation about possible paths for insulating the Fed, with Sarah noting that executive agencies always involve some legislative function, and that true independence is structurally hard in U.S. government.

4. Foreign Policy Flashpoint: The ‘Greenland Question’

[52:07–67:34]

Context:
The Trump administration’s renewed interest in acquiring Greenland—whether by offer or force—sparks alarm among allies. Jonah Goldberg is ribbed for having jokingly raised the idea years ago.

• Jonah’s Mea Culpa and Warning ([53:14, 54:16]):

  • "I never wanted to, like, threaten war against Denmark to take Greenland from it. Right. And destroy NATO," he says, warning that the rhetoric "profoundly besmirch[es] any sense of American national honor."
  • Trump’s approach is not about strategic necessity but “the theatrics of strength.”

• Grayson Log’s Diplomatic Assessment ([58:17]):

  • Notes that NATO countries feel compelled to carry out military exercises to “deter the President from deciding to take Greenland,” which is “bonkers.”
  • Adds that actual acquisition would likely be a net negative—costly and diplomatically self-defeating.

• Sarah Isgur’s Geopolitical Frame ([60:24]):

  • Argues that to understand Trump, you must view his approach as “a different world order” resembling spheres of influence:
    Quote: "What Trump is talking about is a different world order. Something far closer to ... hegemony with Russia, China and the United States dividing up the world."
  • Predicts (with Goldberg) that even if the U.S. never takes Greenland, the damage to traditional alliances and expectations is already profound.

• Jonah’s Final Word – Existential Stakes ([62:51–67:34]):

  • Suggests Trump’s territorial ambitions, if actualized, could provoke a constitutional crisis and "break the U.S. military" by recasting it as a tool of conquest rather than defense.
  • Warns, “I don't think this country can survive as this country if we reconceive of the military as essentially Roman legions of conquest.… It is really, really, really dangerous.”

5. Meta Talk: The Fate of “Not Worth Your Time” Segment

[68:51–77:46]

A light-hearted debate erupts over the “Not Worth Your Time” segment—originally intended to discuss whether viral news stories deserve attention, but more recently drifting toward panelist preferences (e.g., chicken wings).

• Sarah Isgur’s Critique ([69:20]):
  • Insists the original intent—debating the newsworthiness of stories—has been lost:
    Quote: "What I object to is continuing to use my trademarked name, but completely eviscerating it of all meaning and purpose and joy and intelligence."
• Jonah Goldberg’s Take ([70:36]):
  • Supports Sarah’s “originalist” reading of the segment, but is open to parallel slice-of-life content:
    "If we want to do more slice of life stuff, we should figure out how to do that. But I think the Not Worth Your Time thing is actually...a great podcast of its own."
• Audience Engagement:
  • Host encourages listeners to weigh in on what the segment should be.

Noteworthy Quotes & Moments

• Jonah Goldberg on Trump immigration theatrics ([09:31]):
  “Trump likes the theatrics of strength and he wants to provoke antifa and all of this.”

• Sarah Isgur on Democratic strategy ([19:39]):
  “Everyone gets trapped without actually capturing the popular positions.”

• Joe Rogan (quoted by Mike Warren, [18:09]):
  "Are we really going to be the Gestapo? Where's your papers? Is that what we've come to?"

• Jonah Goldberg on American foreign policy ([54:16]):
  “We are not an empire that conquers other countries simply for the acquisition of territory, at least not anymore. And we certainly don't attack allied countries for that purpose.”

• Sarah Isgur reframing Greenland ([60:24]):
  "Trump is simply acknowledging [the changing world order]...if you don't accept that it will continue, whether you want it to or not, then the Greenland thing makes a lot more sense."

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Time | |-----------------------------------------------|-------------| | ICE shooting & public opinion on immigration | 00:56–14:26 | | Democratic strategic response | 18:24–26:10 | | Investigation of Fed Chair Powell | 26:10–50:25 | | Greenland and changing U.S. foreign policy | 52:07–67:34 | | Not Worth Your Time (segment meta-discussion) | 68:51–77:46 |

Tone & Style

The discussion is candid, informal, and intellectually sharp, with moments of levity and intra-panel banter. Panelists are frank and, at times, self-deprecating about their own roles in shaping (or mis-shaping) the national conversation.

Summary in a Nutshell

This episode captures a moment of flux in American politics—a public increasingly unsettled by immigration crackdowns, anxious about politicized institutions, and facing a government veering toward provocative foreign policy stances. Through data, personal insight, and biting humor, the panel dissects not only the news itself but how a rapidly changing media and political environment is reshaping American democracy and its place in the world.