A Chinese dissident's journey

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Documentary Podcast
Host: BBC World Service
Episode: A Chinese Dissident's Journey
Date: August 1, 2026

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Overview

This episode centers on the extraordinary escape of Chinese dissident Dong Guangping, a former police officer turned activist, who fled China by crossing the Yellow Sea in a dinghy, ultimately reaching South Korean waters before being granted asylum in Canada. Through an interview with BBC’s Phoebe Kong (Hong Kong bureau), the episode explores Dong’s perseverance, numerous failed escape attempts, the risks involved, and what his journey reveals about the situation for dissidents in China today. The episode also briefly transitions to a segment on Yemen’s qat (khat) culture (see [25:18] onwards).

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Who is Dong Guangping?

• Background:

  • Former police officer in China (13 years service in the 1980s and 90s) [03:47]
  • Lost his job and became a target after writing an article commemorating the 10th anniversary of the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown [02:15]
  • Turned activist, distributed leaflets, and became a repeat political prisoner [03:08, 04:48]

• Transition to Activism:

  • Fired and barred from state employment
  • Multiple imprisonments for “inciting subversion” [04:48]

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2. Previous Escape Attempts

• First Attempt (2015):

  • Fled through Laos to Thailand; granted UN refugee status but deported by Thai authorities back to China
  • Imprisoned again for subversion and illegal border crossing [05:19]

• Subsequent Attempts:

  • 2019: Tried to swim to Taiwan but failed due to physical conditions, was rescued by Chinese fishermen
  • 2020: Attempted another escape to Vietnam, hid there, but was deported back
  • Further attempt: Again tried to swim to Taiwan using an inflatable raft, failed and returned [05:19–06:48]

  “This man was super determined to get out.” — Farhana Kamidi [07:28]

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3. The Successful Escape: Crossing the Yellow Sea

• Preparation and Determination:

  • Crossed the Yellow Sea in a rubber boat
  • Carried only a cellphone, fuel, and power banks
  • Changed route mid-journey from Japan to South Korea due to weather and battery issues [07:38–10:43]
  • First attempt sailing a rubber boat in open sea

• Dangers and Memorable Moments:

  • Stayed awake for 50 hours; almost collided with a cargo ship after dozing off

    “If he slept for 20 more seconds … his little rubber boat would have crashed … and that would very probably … he would die on the sea.” — Phoebe Kong [09:36]

  • Used instant coffee powder to stave off sleep [09:36]
  • Shifted plan last minute, relying only on a compass [10:43]

• Motivations:

  • Economic hardship: denied pension due to activism [08:34]
  • Suppression of freedom: importance of free expression

    “Freedom means a lot to him … it’s nearly impossible for him to freely express and write articles and to express his ideas politically in China.” — Phoebe Kong [08:34]

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4. Rarity and Significance of Dong’s Journey

• Uncommon Route:

  • Only the second such successful sea escape by a Chinese dissident in recent years (first: jet ski to South Korea in 2023) [11:35]
  • Unique risks: physical preparation, gear, and “courage … prepared to die on the sea” [12:43]

• Impact for Dissidents and Human Rights:

  “His journey and his stories reflect from another perspective … the reality Chinese dissidents are facing; that they’re willing to … risk their life to flee China. Perhaps that tells us something about the human rights situation in China nowadays.” — Phoebe Kong [13:27]

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5. Personal Consequences

• Family Left Behind:

  • Visited his 95-year-old mother before leaving, who has been supportive [13:58]
  • Did not disclose his plan to family for their protection

    “Not being able to look after his elder mother would be one of his greatest regrets in his life, even though he’s now safely resettled in Canada.” — Phoebe Kong [13:58]

• Chinese Government’s Response:

  • Minimal; Foreign Ministry reiterated laws on exit and entry [15:13]
  • Possibly muted since Dong is “not someone super prominent” among activists [15:13]

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6. Final Thoughts and Significance

• For Dong:

  • Reaching Canada was “his biggest goal” for the past decade [12:48]
  • Achievement seen as personal triumph—“something that come true for him” [12:48]

• For Listeners:

  • Caution against imitation:

    “Don’t try this at home, basically.” — Farhana Kamidi [13:23]
    “Yes, of course.” — Phoebe Kong [13:27]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Courage and Motivation:

  “He was prepared to die on the sea because he knew … you’re not going to seek any help if you encounter something really dangerous.” — Phoebe Kong [12:43]

• Sacrifice for Freedom:

  “Freedom means a lot to him … it’s nearly impossible for him to freely express … in China.” — Phoebe Kong [08:34]

• Journey’s Danger:

  “He said if he slept for 20 more seconds … his little rubber boat would have crashed on the big cargo ship and … he would die on the sea.” — Phoebe Kong [09:36]

• On Family:

  “He gave a hug to his 95 year old mother when he said goodbye. … not being able to look after his elder mother would be one of his greatest regrets in his life.” — Phoebe Kong [13:58]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction and Episode Overview – [01:16–02:15]
• Dong Guangping’s Background and Activism – [03:08–04:48]
• Escape Attempts; Setbacks and Failures – [05:19–07:28]
• Successful Yellow Sea Escape & Dangers – [07:38–10:43]
• Dong’s Motivations – [08:34–09:27]
• Rarity of Dong’s Journey / Other Cases – [11:35–12:43]
• Significance, Warnings, and Human Rights Implications – [13:23–13:53]
• Family and Personal Sacrifice – [13:58–15:07]
• Chinese Authorities’ Response – [15:13–15:48]

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Tone and Style

• The tone is factual, empathetic, and deeply reflective, focusing on personal and political nuance.
• Language remains clear, direct, and avoids sensationalism—fitting the BBC’s journalistic style.

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For Further Listening

The episode continues after [16:13] with an in-depth segment on Yemen’s qat culture, shifting entirely from Dong Guangping’s story.

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If you are interested in the harrowing personal stakes faced by Chinese dissidents, the barriers to freedom of expression in China, and the ingenuity, sacrifice, and courage required to escape, this episode offers a rare, humanizing window into those struggles.

Transcript

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Farhana Kamidi]

You are listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service. Welcome to the Fifth Floor from the BBC World Service with me, farunaik amidi. The BBC World Service broadcasts in 45 languages around the world. Our job here at the fifth floor is to bring you the best of those stories in English and also to get you closer to the extraordinary work our journalists do. Coming up, how the growing and chewing of the stimulant qat is altering lives in Yemen.

[Dalia Haydar]

So I asked people to describe cut in one word. So the first one started by saying, it's a stimulant. Another one said, it's a refuge. Another one said, it's my source of income. Another one said, you know, those who cut, they see everything more beautiful. But we also have one voice who's saying this is a disaster that has fallen upon our country.

[Farhana Kamidi]

But first, when Chinese policeman Deng Guangping wrote an article commemorating the 10th anniversary of the 1989 military crackdown on pro democracy protesters in Beijing, it kicked off a chain of events that led to him serving jail time and losing his job. But it also sparked the beginning of a deep desire to escape China and to live more freely. And Deng, now seen as a dissident by the authorities, began planning how he might escape China just a few weeks ago. Back in late May, he finally achieved his dream, having taken the huge risk of crossing China's Yellow Sea in a dinghy to reach South Korean waters. I spoke to Phoebe Kong, based in the BBC's Hong Kong bureau. And she explained how rare Deng's achievement really is.

[Phoebe Kong]

Yeah, I think first of all, his experience is really fascinating, the fact that he crossed the sea all by himself. But to be very honest, as like I have been covering China for more than a decade, donguangping, to be frank, he's not like someone like a household named prominent activist in China, like compared to other more famous Chinese dissidents. But I think it's what he has gone through, like, that makes his profile very unique and differentiate him from other activists.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Tell us about who he is and why was he a target of the Chinese authorities?

[Phoebe Kong]

Yeah, so Dong Guangping is now 68 years old and he was a police officer in China back in the 80s and 90s for 13 years. So he was a public servant like before he turned into a political activist in basically 1999, that was the 10th anniversary of the brutal Chinamen Square crackdown in China. So in 1999 he tried to write articles and printed leaflets and distributed by himself and that caught the attention from the authorities. So that basically got him fired from the police force from that moment. He also mentioned that it's like he changed his mentality, his view, like how to see the Chinese authorities and the regime and the politics and so on. So he also decided not to work for the state anymore and to participate in the political activism afterwards.

[Farhana Kamidi]

So when you said he tried to write an article, he wrote an article. What kind of article was that? What was he saying in there?

[Phoebe Kong]

It was something to commemorate the Tiananmen Square crackdown. So I mentioned that was the 10th anniversary of that crackdown. So that was like the reason why he started. Yeah, but then like he. He was jailed for inciting subversion because of those acts of activism. And he was jailed for more than once, like since he joined activism.

[Farhana Kamidi]

We know that Dong tried to leave China a few times before. Tell us about his previous attempts.

[Phoebe Kong]

How did they go, like before this success, like to South Korea? He actually tried four times before and all of them failed. The first one was in 2015 when Dong fled to Thailand through the land borders from China to Laos and then to Thailand. And then actually he was granted refugee status by the UN back then, but then he was still deported by the Thai authorities to. To the Chinese authorities after she. He was sent back to China from Thailand, he was sent to jail, like for subversion and also like illegal entry like crossing the border, etc. And then in 2019, after he was released from jail, he tried to swing to Taiwan from the east coast of China. But then it's also failed because of his physical conditions. And eventually he was rescued by some fishermen, Chinese fishermen on the sea. And then in 2020 he tried another route to the Vietnam, also crossing the land borders. But then he tried to stay and hide himself in Vietnam for a while before he was eventually deported by the Vietnamese authorities back to China. And then fourth time he tried again to swim to Taiwan again. This time he grabbed a inflatable wrist, something like that, to hold on that rift and then try to swim to Taiwan. But again he failed and then sent

[Farhana Kamidi]

back to China swimming to Taiwan. What is that distance, do you know?

[Phoebe Kong]

I would say because there is a very remote island of Taiwan that was only two or three kilometers from the Chinese land. So it's like basically the closest point to, to, to get on Taiwan is around 2 to 3 kilometers.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Yeah, but 3 kilometers is quite a lot if you're not a professional swimmer.

[Phoebe Kong]

Yeah, but was also some kind of open sea and you know, there are tides and waves and even the fact that he was over 60s back then. So that was something really a huge challenge for oh man. To do it.

[Farhana Kamidi]

This man was super determined to get out. And this latest journey he had across the Yellow Sea. Tell me about that.

[Phoebe Kong]

Yeah. So after all those failure, he decided to try a new way, which is like to cross the Yellow Sea from China to. Originally he planned to go to Japan, but then on the way at the sea, he found the weather conditions is not that desirable and also the batteries are running out for his phone and the power bank. So he changed his route on the sea, like to divert it to South Korea. And that was a new way because he told me that it was actually his first time to sail a rubber boat on open sea. Like that was his first time. So there are many unexpected situations that came up throughout his on, on his journey.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Before we get into the details of what he told you about the journey, tell us why he was so determined to take this trip and to get to Canada.

[Phoebe Kong]

Of course, as a political dissident in China for decades, he. He couldn't find a proper job. And like even after he reached the age of 60, supposedly he was eligible for pension. But then he told me that he was told by the authorities that he's not allowed to apply for pension because of his jail term in the past. So economically it's hard for him. And also he repeated again and again that freedom means a lot to him, that he found it's nearly impossible for him to freely express and write articles and to, you know, to express his ideas politically in China. So I think that the two reasons, those are the biggest drive for him to leave China, like, by all means.

[Farhana Kamidi]

So when you spoke to Dong, what did he tell you about this successful journey which took almost 40 hours?

[Phoebe Kong]

Basically, he fled by a rubber boat. And then along with him, it was only his cell phone, some fuel for the rubber boat, and also power banks. And he mentioned some dangerous scenes like on the sea, that he said at one point that he was like staying awake for over 50 hours and he was so sleepy, and then he didn't notice that he actually fell asleep. And then when he woke up, he saw there is a huge cargo ship passing by, like at his back. So he said if he slept for 20 more seconds, like then his little rubber boat would have crashed on the big cargo ship and that would very probably that he would die on the sea. And interestingly, he also said that, like how he keeps himself awake on the sea is that like he brought some instant coffee powder and then whenever he felt sleepy, and then he would just pour the instant coffee powder into his mouth and then like maybe some water and then that's, that's the coffee for him.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Incredible.

[Phoebe Kong]

On, on the sea. And, and also like at the end, he kind of like lost the direction on the sea. And then the weather is getting cloudy and his phone is running out of battery. He's at the end, he's only, he, he only got a compass left. So that was the main reason that he, he, he thinks, okay, Japan is, is too far from me that I, I couldn't make it to Japan. So let's go to South Korea, the closest land to him that time. So it was really a, a very challenging and very dramatic journey.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Yeah. Incredible how he was also thinking on his feet, you know, making decisions under such stress.

[Phoebe Kong]

Yeah.

[Farhana Kamidi]

How unusual is it for Chinese dissidents to flee the country through sea?

[Phoebe Kong]

I would say is extremely rare in recent years. He's only the second one that took the same route to escape from China. Back in 2023, there was another Chinese dissident. He drove a jet ski to flee to South Korea, and he also made it. So that was the first successful case in the recent years that we have heard. And then Dong Guangping was the second one. And I actually asked the same question to Dong in our interview. And then he said, this is not something that ordinary dissident can do because you need a lot of preparations. Like you have to prepare your physical conditions and all the gear, the boat, everything. You need on the sea and also the mentality he says you need courage because he said he was prepared to die on the sea because he know the risk that there's you, you're not going to seek any help if you encounter something really dangerous. So I think it's also the courage and that kind of boldness that is not really common like for anyone that can try this route.

[Farhana Kamidi]

And he's been granted asylum by Canada. Is that significant?

[Phoebe Kong]

First of all, it's really significant or don't want me himself because basically in the past decade or so fleeing China and go to Canada was his biggest goal. That is almost the only thing he was working on in the past 10 years. So it was really a big achievement and something that come true for him and also for the Chinese dissidents as a whole. I think his case, as I said this is not something that could be copied or replicated easily.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Don't try this at home, basically.

[Phoebe Kong]

Yes, of course. But then I think his journey and his stories reflect from another perspective to tell us perhaps some kind of reality the Chinese dissidents are facing that they're willing to take such risky and like perhaps they could risk their life to flee China. Perhaps that tell us something about the human rights situation in China nowadays.

[Farhana Kamidi]

So has he been forced to leave some family members behind? I assume?

[Phoebe Kong]

Yeah. In the interview Mr. Dong told me that before he left his home like he visited his mother who is 95 years old already and it was to say goodbye to her before embarking his journey. And also his siblings and other family members remain in China. And he described that like he gave a hug to his 95 year old mother when he say goodbye. Although he didn't mention where he was planning to go or his plan plan that was not something that he can mention to his mother. But he said his mother has been really supportive to him throughout the years that his mother understand the difficulties and the challenges he's facing back inside mainland China. So he said now he successfully achieved his goal, which is leaving China. But then not being able to look after his elder mother would be one of his greatest regrets in his life, even though he's now safely resettled in Canada.

[Farhana Kamidi]

And what about the Chinese authorities? Have they shown any reaction to this story?

[Phoebe Kong]

Yes, they did. But like not really much. Like the Chinese Foreign Ministry just briefly responded to his case by reiterating that the Chinese authorities handle citizens entry and exit affairs directly in accordance with the law and that all Chinese citizens must abide by the country's constitution, constitutions. And laws. So basically I think this is some kind of like minimal response to this case. Maybe part of the reason is also, as I mentioned, Dong is not like someone super prominent, but that was what we have heard so far.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Thank you very much, Phoebe. Thank you, Phoebe Kong from the BBC's Hong Kong bureau. If you are a regular listener to the Fifth Floor, it's great to have you back. If you're just catching the program for the first time, I should let you know that the fifth Floor is at the heart of global storytelling on the BBC World Service bringing you the best stories from BBC journalists from all over the world.

[Dalia Haydar]

Think of vultures as trash movers because

[Phoebe Kong]

they don't just eat flesh, they actually eat bone. They have such a complex digestive system that is so acidic that it can swallow bones and it doesn't hurt them. So they clean up the trash, they clean up the carcass.

[Dalia Haydar]

Olgas I know are the opposite of what I am as Irena.

[Phoebe Kong]

Okay, I am kind of peaceful and

[Dalia Haydar]

peacemaking and generally agreeable, or so I think. But Olgas that I know are very forceful, very straightforward, very uncompromising. So I would like to be a bit of an Olga, but I am not, alas. Actually the Hand of God was my first and last match I've seen. Wow. And, and so I'm feel a little bit guilty because I was witness of one of the goals that people keep talking about and it was just pure coincidence.

[Farhana Kamidi]

You can find us on BBC Sounds and wherever you get your podcasts, you are listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

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[Farhana Kamidi]

This is the fifth floor and I'm Farhana Kamidi Yemen has faced decades of economic hardship and war, but the qat industry is thriving. Qat is a stimulant. It is estimated to consume one third of Yemen's groundwater and occupy much of the country's agricultural land. Dalia Haydar of BBC Arabic has been looking into Yemen's relationship to Qatar and the problem it can cause.

[Dalia Haydar]

Khat is a plant. It's a shrub that has been growing in parts of the Arabian Peninsula, East Africa, and also the Middle east for many centuries. But scientifically speaking, it is considered a stimulant. And the chronic use of khat is associated with negative health effects, including addiction for the prolonged use of cod. So several European countries have banned it entirely and many have been calling for its ban because of the health effects it has.

[Farhana Kamidi]

And Yemen has a historical relationship with this plant. Has it been used for a very long time and does a culture exist around the usage of it?

[Dalia Haydar]

Yes, it appeared in Yemen and other countries since the 13th centuries, and this plant until now remains widespread in many parts of Yemen. Until today, culturally speaking, it has been associated with the culture very strongly, as one expert from Yemen once described it to me. He said, imagine you have a dress or a suit and you want to have a button for it. Khat is the button around which you design everything. So you've got the button and then you want to design the suit around the button or the dress around the button. So it's very, very strong in the Yemeni culture and the Yemeni life. It's always present in like weddings, in gatherings, social gatherings, political gatherings, and even the houses. The way they're built in Yemen. They are designed around khat gatherings so people can sit together and they can chew cut for hours and discuss all

[Farhana Kamidi]

sorts of things what is the atmosphere like in a. Is it like a pub, for instance?

[Dalia Haydar]

No, it's. It's really like. It's a very unique setup. And like houses in Yemen, some of the houses, they are designed to have this like small like court or like salon for people to sit and gather in it. And they start by chewing the cod. So they have the cut. It's a plant, as I said, and they have it in like small bags and then they started chewing on the fresh plant leaves and then they store it in their cheek for hours and then they chew on it again and then they store it again. So when you see it's not like something that you eat and then you move. No, actually you keep on chewing while you're sitting there and having your drinks, your soft drinks or fizzy drinks, and that's it. And they talk about all sorts of things. They discuss, you know, it can start from discussing politics, economy, culture, to reading poems, to singing. So it's really very unique athletes atmosphere.

[Farhana Kamidi]

And I assume it's only men who can enter these salons or maybe in the private homes. Would you see women sitting and chewing the ghat?

[Dalia Haydar]

According to local statistics, around half of the women in Yemen, they consume khat. Yeah, I mean, I haven't seen women in the same setup we've seen while did this report which the men had in those salons. But if that number of women is consuming cut, so I would imagine it's. It's a similar atmosphere.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Are things changing or evolving in any way today?

[Dalia Haydar]

The habits around using khat are changing. So it's being abused in Yemen, the way it's being used and also the way it's being planted and distributed. Many argue that there are some chemicals used to it to grow it fast. So they basically that is having adverse health effects on the users of khat or those who consume khat. Also because of the war and because of the economic problems and the unemployment and all that. So a lot now they rely on khat as an escape from what's happening in Yemen and what's happening around them. So yeah, the way it's being used and the way it's being consumed has changed over time.

[Farhana Kamidi]

So the habit has been changing. Becoming more addictive, you mean, or destructive.

[Dalia Haydar]

It is becoming more addictive and also it's becoming more debated at the same time. So this as well as being abused, as I said, or misused, now there is also growing awareness around it and around the use of cut and the negatives and all that.

[Farhana Kamidi]

So we have a clip of Some men in Yemen, they are sitting in a. And let's have a listen. Dalia, what are they saying?

[Dalia Haydar]

So actually, this is my favorite clip from the report because it does sum up the whole story. So I asked people to describe qat in one word. And this is the variety of answers we've got. So the first one started by saying it's a stimulant. Another one said, it's a refuge. Another one said, it's my source of income. The gentleman towards the end, he was saying, this is the life of the Yemeni. Another one said, you know, those who Chukat, they see everything more beautiful. But we also have one voice who's saying this is a disaster that has fallen upon our country. So this tells you how this is like it's viewed differently within the country and how people are using it for different reasons.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Why is it that it's so popular in Yemen?

[Dalia Haydar]

That's for different reasons. Like some people, they do use it as, as an escape, as a refuge from what's going on. But for others, because it's stimulant, it helps them with concentrating on work, concentrating on study. One of the gentlemen I spoke to, he said it helps him with his study. He cannot study without it. Another one said, I always have to chukat while I'm working. And for many others, it's a source of income because it's the type of plant that doesn't need much to maintain and grow. So you water it twice as far as I was told, and then you can start selling. So it's a fast producing plant and then you replant it and you, you sell it. And it's also popular, people buy it. So for those who make a living out of it, it's a good source of, of income and it's really widely used in Yemen. Unfortunately, we were not able to get any official statistics because of the situation now in Yemen and the war and the divisions and all that. But according to unofficial statistics and also local reports, in Yemen, they say or they estimate that around 70, up to 80% of Yemeni, they chew, cut. So these are really, really like large numbers of Yemenis chewing khat and using it.

[Farhana Kamidi]

And Dalia, Yemen is a. Is an Islamic country and drugs and alcohol are banned in Islam. People don't consider cut a drug. Whereas by what they are saying and how they are describing it does sound like a drug.

[Dalia Haydar]

You're right, it does. And it's banned in many countries. When I was researching for it, I didn't see an official law that bans it or considers it like haram in Islam. But there are some scholars who have called upon its ban because it does affect the mind and it does affect the concentration and it does affect family relations as well because it's been debated in Yemen and said that many people they focus on and the salons and the gatherings of Khad more than they spend time with their families. So there have been some voices calling for considering at Haram but I am not aware of like a law that's officially says that this is Haram and it shouldn't be used in Yemen. Recently there have been growing voices from within Yemen and the Yemeni society calling for banning the qat. Again, according to local reports and observations, people would spend around 50% of their income on khat consumption and that's also, you know, quite a lot to spend on it. So some have been calling for its ban and that's one of the reasons. Another reason which is very important is the health like effects it has because it does affect the mouth, it does affect the stomach, it does affect also the nervous system for a very prolonged use and some link it as well with certain types of cancer. The other reason which is to add to these two is the environment because khat consumes a lot of water in Yemen and that's also a problem. Apparently from what I've read it consumes one third of the water resources in Yemen and that's also another reason why people are asking for a span.

[Farhana Kamidi]

Thank you Dalia Haidar of BBC Arabic. That's all we've got time for today. If you want to let us know what you think about the show or you have any questions for us, send an email to the fifth floorbc.co.uk we love hearing from you. That is the fifth floor. All one wordbc.co.uk from Havana, Cuba JC got an touch to say thanks for such an interesting program on life inside Iran. It is very important to know about what is happening from the people in there and what they are passing through. Nikhil John also wrote in about our Iran coverage to say please consider covering more unheard stories from Iran. Thank you for your dedication to bringing these important stories to the global audience and thank you John for writing to us. And thanks to David Sindal for writing in with this for my brilliant colleague Irena Taranjuk. Listening to her mellifluous and serene voice, precisely pronouncing impossible foreign names and places leaves me in awe. I totally agree with you David. It leaves me in awe too. So don't be a stranger. Until next time. Goodbye. This is the documentary from the BBC World Service.

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