James Turrell: Master Of Light

Summary

James Turrell: Master of Light
The Documentary Podcast, BBC World Service
Release date: July 27, 2026
Host: Julian May
Guests: James Turrell (artist), Rebecca Matthews (Director & CEO, ARoS Aarhus Art Museum)

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Overview

This episode explores the work and philosophy of James Turrell, pioneering American artist renowned for his immersive work with light and perception. Reporting from the ARoS art museum in Aarhus, Denmark, host Julian May takes listeners inside Turrell’s latest monumental “sky space” installation, As Seen Below the Dome. The episode blends vivid on-site experiences with personal and philosophical reflections from Turrell and ARoS director Rebecca Matthews. The core theme is the power of light—not just as subject or tool, but as material and a bridge to spiritual, perceptual, and communal experiences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scandinavian Relationship with Light

• 00:01:14-02:41
  • Julian May describes arriving at ARoS, experiencing Olafur Eliasson’s “Your Rainbow Panorama”—a circular walkway letting visitors see the city through sequential colors of the spectrum.
  • Rebecca Matthews (Museum director) explains how Danish culture prioritizes creative, intentional use of light, especially during long, dark winters.

    “The Danes are very, very specific about how they light their homes... The huglitz, you know, this coziness hygge that the Danes genuinely focus on.” —Rebecca Matthews (02:41)

  • Light is essential for coziness and well-being; when moving into a home, Danes fit their own lighting to create atmosphere.

2. Introduction to James Turrell’s “Sky Spaces”

• 03:27-04:16
  • May introduces Turrell’s newest installation, As Seen Below the Dome, a monumental “sky space” beneath a grassy mound at ARoS, opening June 19.
  • The work invites viewers underground, into a space beneath a dome, to gaze through an oculus (circular opening) at the sky—the experience shaped by light.

3. Turrell’s Approach: Light as Material

• 04:16-05:50
  • Turrell distinguishes between artists depicting light and his own practice:

    “The history of art is littered with art that's about light. The difference here is, this is light, right?” —James Turrell (05:09) “I use the material, light, to affect the medium of perception.” —James Turrell (05:24)

  • Turrell reflects on the physical, intellectual, and spiritual connections humans have with light—linking to near-death and birth experiences.

4. The Philosophy and Experience of Sky Spaces

• 06:10-08:05
  • Turrell explains how sky spaces encourage people to “look up,” to pay attention to the cusp of day and night—moments of enhanced perception and emotional resonance.

    “We’re really made for the light of the cave and... twilight hunting... That's when we have our most romantic moments in reduced light.” —James Turrell (06:30)

  • His work seeks immersion:

    “I do want you to enter the space, what I call the new landscape... It’s very similar to when you have white out in a skiing condition or when you’re flying into fog or cloud. But the beauty of it is amazing.” —James Turrell (07:45)

5. Piloting, Perception, and the Atmosphere

• 08:05-09:45
  • Turrell, a lifelong pilot, describes how flying has deepened his sensitivity to light’s changing qualities:

    “Flying in the atmosphere...the atmosphere has all these different qualities of light...the best front seat for all this very wonderful kind of vision or light or quality, and people get very taken by it.” —James Turrell (08:34)

6. Technical and Architectural Challenges

• 09:45-10:28
  • Matthews details the massive effort required to construct the underground sky space—excavating earth, fortifying with steel, integrating gallery and public square above.

7. Timing, Light, and Spiritual Connections

• 10:28-12:28
  • Turrell insists the sky space is best experienced at the “cusp” between day and night.

    “We have this cusp from day to night or night to day...is a very interesting time to really look at light and feel it.” —James Turrell (10:44)

  • The conversation connects Turrell’s Quaker upbringing to his art: both honor silence, contemplation, and the idea of “inner light.”

    “The purpose is to go inside to greet the light. Yes, there's light in everyone.” —James Turrell (11:25) “The physical world can take you up and to the spiritual world, but it doesn't necessarily deliver you into it. That's your responsibility…” —James Turrell (12:28)

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Experiencing “As Seen Below the Dome”

Immersion in the Sky Space

• 14:53-17:59
  • May descends into the dome: “a big chamber full of orange light, a bit like a sunrise.” Seating arrayed around the oculus echoes Quaker meeting houses.
  • The light in the dome gradually shifts—orange to magenta (17:00), the aperture glows blue, then green—a dynamic interplay between programmed illumination and the real sky above.
  • Turrell challenges the concept of “artificial light”:

    “There's no such thing as artificial light. The sight we make is, you know, it's like fire. We make fire. But is fire artificial?” —James Turrell (17:14)

The Science of Perception

• 17:59-19:34
  • Matthews notes the perceptual magic:

    “You can actually only see those changing colors of the sky with your eyes. If you try and take a photo...you can't capture the color you're seeing with your eye. And that's because there's something medical, maybe biological going on in your eyes that [Turrell] understands and is playing with.” —Rebecca Matthews (17:59)

  • Turrell programs interior lights to interact precisely with ambient sky light, meticulously adjusting as conditions change. “He has two watches...watching infinitesimal changes in the light...changing the programming at the same time.” —Rebecca Matthews (18:49)

Notable Technical Details

• 20:06-20:53
  • 1,100+ specially programmed lamps are set into the bench surrounding the dome; an “electric edge” around the oculus makes the aperture’s border “razor sharp.”
  • The experience is strictly analog—the perceptual effect cannot be digitized or effectively mediated through technology:

    “You can’t experience that digitally... You in person with your eyes...” —Rebecca Matthews (20:53) “I can paint the sky any color you like. And it’s absolutely true.” —Rebecca Matthews (21:09)

Silence, Time, and Contemplation

• 21:09-22:56
  • May notes how the environment inspires silence. Turrell connects this to the “theta” state—the brain’s mode of contemplative, non-verbal awareness.

    “When you look into a fire, you sort of drift off...almost everybody exhibits a theta state, and that is a state of wordless thought.” —James Turrell (21:31)

  • The work is “outside time”—visitors lose track of how long they’ve sat, just watching subtle transitions.

    “The average time you spend in front of a painting in The MET is 15 seconds. The average time you spend in a James Turrell sky space is over an hour.” —Rebecca Matthews (22:56)

Evolution and Maintenance of the Work

• 24:23-25:58
  • The dome’s exterior is covered in grass, making the work a living, organic entity. Matthews describes horticultural challenges—crows digging for seeds, selecting stronger grasses—and emphasizes the park and garden surrounding the installation as part of the full experience.

Performance and Acoustics

• 26:08-27:54
  • The dome is envisioned as a performance space (dance, music). Acoustic properties are challenging—reverberation affects piano and harp, but string instruments fare better. “Echo hours” will let children (and adults) play with the echoing soundscape.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On making light the art:
  “The history of art is littered with art that's about light. The difference here is, this is light, right?”
  —James Turrell (05:09)

• On embodiment and the spiritual:
  “We drink [light] as vitamin D through the skin. So we have a physical connection as well as intellectual and spiritual connection.”
  —James Turrell (05:32)

• On experience:
  “I do want you to enter the space, what I call the new landscape... The beauty of it is amazing.”
  —James Turrell (07:45)

• On perception:
  “You can actually only see those changing colors of the sky with your eyes. If you try and take a photo...you can’t capture the color you’re seeing...”
  —Rebecca Matthews (17:59)

• On contemplation:
  “When you look into a fire, you sort of drift off...and actually almost everybody exhibits a theta state... a state of wordless thought.”
  —James Turrell (21:31)

• On the work’s meditative quality:
  “You’re not given a finished piece, you’re part of it in a way. It is a highly subjective, non-verbal experience in which your own personal interaction makes the work happen.”
  —Rebecca Matthews (23:26)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:14 – Introduction: setting and context in Denmark, colored panorama experience
• 02:41 – Danish cultural relationship to light and “hygge”
• 03:27 – Introduction of Turrell’s sky space project, “As Seen Below the Dome”
• 05:09 – Turrell on the difference between his work and traditional art
• 06:30 – Turrell on twilight, hunting, and human perception
• 08:34 – Turrell’s pilot’s-eye view of light and landscape
• 10:44 – Cusp of day and night, ideal moment for experiencing the work
• 11:25 – Quaker beliefs; art and silence
• 14:53 – Entering the dome and first sensory experience of the space
• 17:00-17:14 – Shift in light, dialogue on artificial vs. natural light
• 17:59 – Perceptual phenomenon; camera cannot capture immersive color
• 21:31 – Theta state and contemplation
• 22:56 – On time lost, deep engagement in the space
• 24:23 – Finishing construction; hand-polished dome, organic maintenance
• 26:08-26:41 – The dome as a complex performance space; acoustic insights

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Conclusion

The episode is both a journey and a meditation—blending architectural marvel, scientific insight, and spiritual depth. Listeners are invited to consider not only how light shapes space, but how it shapes attention, perception, and even the soul. Turrell’s installations are presented as quietly radical—demanding time, silence, and embodied presence in an accelerated world. As the episode wraps, May notes the slow, dramatic change from white light inside the dome to jet-black sky through the oculus, encapsulating the unique, contemplative beauty of Turrell’s work.

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Transcript

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[Julian May]

Welcome to the documentary in the Studio from the BBC World Service. This is the program that explores the work of the world's leading artists as they're making it.

[James Turrell]

We have to finish the floor. Do the finish to the seats also get the cushions made.

[Julian May]

I'm Julian May and I'm at Aros, the art museum in Aarhus in Denmark. I'm on the top floor, a circular gallery with glass walls. As I walk round, I realise the glass is red. Then further on it's orange, yellow, green, blue. I'm looking down at the city through a rainbow panorama. It's beautiful.

[Rebecca Matthews]

The experience that you had was walking around Olafur Eliasson's artwork, which is called you'd Rainbow Panorama, an experience with light and colour. And the reason it's called you'd Rainbow Panorama is because it's for the city and the citizens of Aarhus to see their city. Three hundred and sixty degrees in all of the colours of the rainbow and all of the colours of the spectrum.

[Julian May]

It's January 15th today. Overcast, grey, cold. I begin to understand that here in the north, where the winters are long and it never really gets light and the summer's short and it never really gets dark. People have an intense relationship with light.

[Rebecca Matthews]

You're right. Rebecca Matthews, Museum director and chief executive of Aros Aarhus Art Museum in Denmark. I do think the Danes have a relationship to light. The Danes are very, very specific about how they light their homes. Lighting and lamps are incredibly important. It's very rare. You will see a bulb In a Danish home, just like hanging from the ceiling, there will be lamps that are hung over special parts of a room so that it creates the atmosphere. The huglitz, you know, this cosiness hygge that the Danes really genuinely focus on. So when you buy a house in Denmark, there's no lights and no light bulbs, because that's your job, to light the space how you want to. So, yeah, I think Danes do have a really interesting relationship to light.

[Julian May]

So it's no surprise that the newest work here that's still being built, it will open on June 19, close to midsummer, is all about light and color. Outside the entrance to Aarhus, which is a very modern building, is a huge mound covered in grass. It looks ancient. It could be the burial site of a Viking chief, except for a rusty metal cap and some men I see working on it. This is the latest of what James Turrell calls sky spaces, and it's titled as Seen Below the Dome. To experience the work, you'll have to go underground beneath a huge dome and look up to a hole in the top that's cut out to let the sky in.

[Rebecca Matthews]

Working with James Tyrell, who really is an artist whose works are probably the most rigorous and sustained artistic investigation into perception and light that we've ever seen. It's probably reflected in the psyche of the Danes. Yeah.

[Julian May]

James Turrell, in his 80s now has created sky spaces in 39 countries. He's famous as a light artist. But I asked when we met, haven't all artists all over the world always been concerned with light? The 19th century Indian painter Raja Ravi Varma is famous for capturing the play of sunlight on skin. Light is a recurring theme in the work of the Ghanaian artist Amoako Boafo. And for the Dutch post Impressionist painter Vincent Van Gogh, light was an emotional and spiritual force. What James Turrell are you doing? That's different.

[James Turrell]

The history of art is littered with art that's about light. The difference here is this is light, right?

[Julian May]

So artists of the past have been depicting light, but you've been using it.

[James Turrell]

So I use the material, light to affect the medium of perception.

[Julian May]

Light itself is the material, and it is material.

[James Turrell]

I mean, as part of our diet, we drink it as vitamin D through the skin. So we have a physical connection as well as intellectual and spiritual connection. You know, when they talk about near death experience, all that vocabulary is the vocabulary of light.

[Julian May]

My understanding is that your new piece, as Seen Below, we access through a tunnel into a room full of light. Now, that's reminiscent to me of what people have said about near death experiences. Has that been part of your thinking?

[James Turrell]

Yes, that ties into that. Absolutely.

[Julian May]

And that also is the experience of birth.

[James Turrell]

Well, we come into the physical world and then leave into the spiritual world. But we come from the spiritual to the physical.

[Julian May]

This piece is what you call a sky space. What is a sky space?

[James Turrell]

Well, first of all, I'm very happy to have people look up. Seldom do we. But the big thing is that I'm very interested in this cusp between day and night. It's a lot of what we were made for. You know, during the day we. We squint even and even we'll put on dark glasses. So we're really made for the light of the cave and we're made for this twilight hunting. That's when we generally did the hunting. So this is a time that is very important because what happens is we have better color perception and we have. That's when we have our most romantic moments in reduced light. We rarely do it in blinding noonday sun, but we're very much. And we're these strange creatures that hibernate every day. Once a day we hibernate at night. And so we have certainly about eight hours or a third of our existence in that period.

[Julian May]

Most art we look at, it's there very often on the wall. And you're separated from it and you look at this depiction. But your work is very different from that, isn't it? We're in it somehow.

[James Turrell]

Well, I do want you to enter the space, what I call the new landscape, which is the landscape with a horizon. It's very similar to when you have white out in a skiing condition or when you're flying and you have. You fly into fog or cloud. But the beauty of it is amazing.

[Julian May]

You were a very precocious pilot. I understand that you got your pilot's license. You were 16.

[James Turrell]

16, but I have four daughters who've gotten their license at 14.

[Julian May]

In England, where I come from, you can't even drive until you're 17. So for you to be flying at 16 was, I think, quite remarkable. What has the influence of your experience as a pilot had on your work?

[James Turrell]

I really love flying in the atmosphere because the atmosphere has all these different qualities of light, which is quite, quite interesting. Flying in the San Joaquin Valley, you would often get this tule fog, where the fog actually is about 3ft thick. The floor of the valley is covered with white and there's a stratus up above. That stratus cloud was somewhere around, oh, 2,200ft, something like that. So it's cloud up above and cloud below, and then the sun came up and it starts out red and then it goes to orange and then it goes to yellow, sort of gold. Many people call that abstract, but this is real, something that happened. So in a way, sitting in the cockpit is the best, is the front seat. Best front seat for all this very wonderful kind of vision or light or quality, and people get very taken by it.

[Rebecca Matthews]

The height of the entire world. The dome itself is, I think, 17 meters. And the majority of that is underground. And that required a huge amount of digging out of earth and soil and then kind of bolstering the entire area with these big metal, I don't know what they were, like sheets, really, that held all of the earth back before we could even think about, you know, what was coming next. Because, you know, the whole project is not just James Turrell's as seen below the dome. It's also an underground gallery, a very long corridor, and also an art square above that subterranean gallery space. It's a really big construction, massive piece of engineering.

[Julian May]

I think it's all right, James, that we should go to your work now, but you, James, you want us to hang on here for a bit until a certain time. Is that something to do with the quality of the light?

[James Turrell]

We have this cusp from day to night or night to day is a very interesting time to really look at light and feel it.

[Julian May]

So we're waiting. We're waiting for the light. Now. I'm very interested in that idea. I know that you were brought up as a Quaker, and I think you are a Quaker still.

[James Turrell]

Are you?

[Julian May]

Again, I'd just like to say, incidentally, that I am also a Quaker, and the Quaker is the best known in the world for silence, for worshipping in silence. And I think that your work itself instills a kind of silence.

[James Turrell]

Well, I think art in general does, but we rarely look at paintings very long, and we don't get that much of a chance to. What I've always done is I've always provided either seats or cushions or mattresses to have time to experience it, because it's, you know, if you're at a Quaker meeting, you know, if it's a really gathered meeting, it'll have almost no. No talk at all. And the purpose is to go inside to greet the light. Yes, there's light in everyone.

[Julian May]

That's a very important aspect of Quakerism as well. People know about the silence. I think they don't know quite so much about this idea of the light, the idea that George Fox, the founder of the Quakers, talked about an inner light and the light in everyone. Tell me, James, are you in your art, making that spiritual idea physical? Is that what you're doing?

[James Turrell]

Well, I have to tell you that the physical world can take you up and to the spiritual world, but it doesn't necessarily deliver you into it. That's your responsibility and that's one of the tenets of Quakerism, is that there's no one between you and the universal consciousness or the Godhead. It's your responsibility to take yourself there. But that's just the same as people need to enter the work as opposed to look at it. And in general, we've looked at work rather than entering it. I want us to value light.

[Julian May]

So now, James, we're going to leave the gallery, this lovely space and we're going to go and experience your work as seen below the dome. Thank you.

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[Julian May]

You're listening to the documentary in the studio from the BBC World Service I'm Julian May and I've come to Aarhus in Denmark to experience as seen below the dome and to meet the artist James Turrell, whose latest work this Is. It's one of many which he calls sky spaces. Such is Turrell's preoccupation with light. He's even turned the cone of an extinct volcano in Arizona, the Roden Crater, into a sky space, a vast observatory for the contemplation of light and time as seen below. The dome is nowhere near as huge as the Roden Crater, but nonetheless, it's monumental. We're walking down a long, curved corridor below ground into the dome, and it's cold and I'm coming into a big chamber full of orange light. A bit like a sunrise, actually. In the middle of the dome, there's a circular hole, an aperture, and that's the sky itself we're seeing there, isn't it? We're sitting on benches. This is indeed reminiscent of a Quaker meeting house, I think. James Tyrell, how does this artwork actually work? What happens here?

[James Turrell]

Well, that we're about to witness, so I'll let you do that yourself.

[Julian May]

So what I am witnessing is a change of color. The huge dome, it's what, 40 odd meters? I think 43. 43 meters. The dome is now a kind of purple color. The light has changed.

[James Turrell]

Magenta, I'd say.

[Julian May]

Magenta. That's more accurate, I think. Magenta. And it seems through the play of the magenta light, which is artificial light.

[James Turrell]

So there's no such thing as artificial light. The sight we make is, you know, it's like fire. We make fire. But is fire artificial?

[Julian May]

No, no, I'm completely wrong. There's no such thing as artificial light. But the play of the light that is created by you against the light of the sky, the aperture that has now changed. It looks green. Just now it was blue. It's changed to a green color. Just now there was the drama of a bird flying across it, which was very pleasing.

[Rebecca Matthews]

The way that you see the sky and the changing of the color of the sky is really interesting because it is about how James T. Works with our perception entirely. And you can actually only see those changing colors of the sky with your eyes. So if you try and take a photo of that with your camera, you can't capture the color you're seeing with your eye. And that's because there's something medical, maybe biological that's going on in your eyes that he understands and is playing with. That means that the sky, even though it's gray outside it's often gray in Denmark, even though it's gray outside, you're seeing a brilliant cobalt blue sky, or you're seeing a bright, vivid green sky or a yellow sky, etc, as you experienced. And that is something to do with the way the interior programmed light plays on your field of vision, which means that it changes the color of the sky and everything is meticulously timed. I was in there with James programming in January, and he has two watches where he's watching infinitesimal changes in the light, natural light of the sky, and changing the programming of the interior light at the same time. And it is a marvel to behold.

[Julian May]

And to appreciate this work, you just have to sit and immerse yourself in it.

[James Turrell]

The Twilight Changes Length 45 minutes at this time of year, and it goes to about 72 minutes in summer.

[Julian May]

Now, the light that James Turrell has created is a kind of gray blue. It's changed subtly. Another bird has flown across the aperture, which is a paler green.

[James Turrell]

Now,

[Julian May]

this is a wonderful slow drama of light. It's very beautiful. It's very moving,

[Rebecca Matthews]

technically. There are over 1100 special lamps set into the interior of the bench, which you sit around in the dome, which light up the space. And right at the very center where the oculus is, directly beneath it, you'll have seen there was this kind of polished granite marble surface. And around that there is something called an electric edge, which James especially wanted in. In a dome of this size, you kind need it. It's very, very specially created lighting lamps which light the very edge of the oculus and make it kind of razor sharp so that you see that distinction between the light of the sky and the interior of the dome. But, you know, in a way it's kind of very analog because it's not something that can.

[James Turrell]

You.

[Rebecca Matthews]

You can't experience that digitally. You can't experience that through some kind of technology. You have to experience it yourself. You in person with your eyes. And, you know, he's very famous for saying, I can paint the sky any color you like. And it's. It's absolutely true.

[Julian May]

It's interesting in that it does instill silence. I'm doing my best to describe what's happening, but actually I just want to be quiet and experience it.

[James Turrell]

If you want to know what I have to say about this, this is what I say I'm very interested in. Like when you look into a fire, you sort of drift off. And actually almost everybody exhibits a theta state, and that is a state of wordless thought. It's still Thinking, but it's wordless. And so I don't mind that it's difficult to be hard to describe in words because this is not about the thought of words. It's the bells of the church you're hearing through the opening

[Rebecca Matthews]

bells of the city Hall.

[James Turrell]

Oh, City Hall. The city hall.

[Julian May]

Rebecca. When, when I was first in space to watch the lights changing, after a while I thought, how long have I been here? I wasn't sure. And is that an aspect of the work that it's somehow outside time or disorientating in that way?

[Rebecca Matthews]

I mean, it is a kind of magical, wondrous space. And I think you're right, you do lose track of time in there. It certainly happened to me as well. There was an interview that James did with Rice University researchers. They had done some research into how much time you spend in artworks. And I think it was something like the average time you spend in front of a painting in The MET is 15 seconds. The average time you spend in a James Turrell sky space is over an hour. My view on it is that you're not given a finished piece, you're part of it in a way. It is a highly subjective, non verbal experience in which your own personal interaction makes the work happen. And that takes time and people want to stay with it. And I think the other thing is that he's created this room with the soul, this very quiet room for reflection. And it calms you, it slows you down, you feel quieter. That's a gift, isn't it? In these kind of frenetic, fractious times that we are in, which are about speed and response. And he takes that away from you. So I think you do lose your sense of time.

[Julian May]

It's almost exactly a month since I was there. And so it's February 11th today. The work officially opens in the summer, on June 19th, almost midsummer's day. Not quite. What are you doing now? What's the work going on at the moment?

[Rebecca Matthews]

The work in the interior of as seen Below, it's in the interior of the dome and is close to finished. The whole surface of the dome and it's, you know, it's monumental. Had to be hand polished. James wanted a very kind of certain feel to it. So we, we had a very marvelous man hand polishing that very Renaissance, in a way, kind of hanging upside down in the dome and, and gently polishing by hand. The interior is, is also fully programmed now. And, and now we're finishing really more. We're finishing the outside of the work. So for Finishing the lid and then grassing the entire dome and then planting the whole area and kind of getting ready for June 19th.

[Julian May]

That's another aspect that struck me. It's an organic work as well. There's grass growing on it. It's a tumulus. You're gonna have to look after it in a horticultural kind of way.

[Rebecca Matthews]

Yes, yes. And that's also a bit of a challenge, actually, because one of the things we've noticed, when we first planted the grass on it, there was something delicious, some seed in it that meant that lots of crows were digging into it. But once we put the second, stronger grass, it will go kind of wild. But, yes, it is an artwork that can be experienced by sitting on it outside. The architecture around the space is beautiful. The Central park area, which we share with the concert hall and the area between our two institutions, so there's an entire biodiverse garden that's been planted all the way through. That is an outdoor space that needs to be kept for people also to enjoy before they go into an interior experience.

[Julian May]

James Tyrell we're witnessing a kind of preview here. So what more has to be done?

[James Turrell]

We do want to have it for performance, like dance some music with this as well. So it has to be finished for those uses.

[Julian May]

It's a wonderful space, and you're going to have performances in there. But there is a very particular and I would say challenging acoustic. When people are in there talking with one another, there's quite an echo. Are there kinds of music that work better in that space than others? And what are they and how are you working this out?

[Rebecca Matthews]

There is a challenging acoustic in the space. Essentially. It is a kind of a silent space. When you go in with groups of people, lots of people are talking, and all of a sudden they go quiet. You don't have to ask people to go quiet, which is a remarkable thing about the experience. James Turrell, Sky Space but musically, we've tested out with the Danish Symphony Orchestra. Many different instruments in the pianos are less effective because of the pressing of the key that reverberates more clearly than the note. Similarly, it's quite difficult to play a harp in that space. Violin, viola, cello work better and actually work quite nicely. It's 40 meters in diameter, you know, 17, 18 meters high, and built in a dome shape. So you're inevitably going to have that experience of echo and reverberation. And one of the things we were talking a lot about was how do you. How do you keep children quiet in a space like that? And we don't want to. So we're creating specially designed echo hours for children so they can come in and make noise in the space and enjoy it in the way that James wants people to.

[Julian May]

I think adults might like that too.

[Rebecca Matthews]

I will. I love it.

[Julian May]

You've been listening to the documentary in the studio from the BBC World Service with the sky space artist James Turrell and Rebecca Matthews, director of ARoS, the art museum in the city of Aarhus, Denmark. The program was produced and presented by me, Julian May. We've been here for 46 minutes as the lights have changed and the colour of the sky has appeared to change. And at the end of the sequence, the dome is bathed in almost white light and the sky itself is jet black. Black as night. It's extraordinarily beautiful.

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