686 - Felix The Cat

Summary

Podcast Summary: Episode 686 - "Felix The Cat"

Released on June 3, 2025, "The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds" delves into the intricate and darkly comedic history of the iconic cartoon character, Felix the Cat. Hosted by comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds under the All Things Comedy Network, this episode blends historical anecdotes with sharp humor, unraveling the lesser-known and controversial facets of Felix's creation and legacy.

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1. The Birth of Felix the Cat

The episode begins with Dave Anthony introducing the tale of Patrick O'Sullivan, an Irish immigrant from Sydney, Australia, who becomes the central figure in Felix's creation. O'Sullivan, portrayed as a charismatic yet deeply flawed individual, initially seeks success in London through various ventures like comic drawing and performing acts. However, his journey takes a dark turn as he grapples with personal demons.

Notable Quote:

• Dave Anthony [03:05]: "At 22, he left. He left Australia for London where he tried drawing comics to sell to newspapers and doing a song and dance act at a music hall."

2. Otto Messmer: The Unsung Hero

Otto Messmer emerges as the true creative force behind Felix the Cat. Trained in art through night classes and correspondence courses, Otto idolizes early animated films and pioneers the fundamentals of animation. His partnership with O'Sullivan at Pat Sullivan Studios is pivotal, though overshadowed by Sullivan's erratic behavior.

Notable Quote:

• Gareth Reynolds [21:34]: "He was born and raised in New Jersey... builds up a portfolio by selling cartoons and humorous poems to newspapers and magazines."

3. The Rise of Pat Sullivan and Studio Dynamics

Pat Sullivan, the studio head, is depicted as an authoritarian figure whose personal issues severely impact the studio's operations. His abusive behavior, particularly towards his wife Marjorie, and blatant exploitation of his employees, including Otto, paint a grim picture of the early animation industry.

Notable Quote:

• Gareth Reynolds [59:06]: "Pat would not hire any black animators at his studio. If you can imagine, Pat."

4. Felix's Meteoric Success and Controversial Content

Under Sullivan's leadership, Otto's creative endeavors bring Felix the Cat to international fame. The character becomes a cultural icon, revered for breaking the fourth wall and introducing fluid, fantastical elements into animation. However, the content is marred by underlying themes of racism and abuse, reflecting the darker aspects of its creation.

Notable Quote:

• Dave Anthony [49:00]: "Felix communicates directly with the audience by winking or holding up a finger and doing something funny."

5. The Struggle with Technological Advancements

The advent of sound in animation marks the beginning of Felix's decline. Sullivan's resistance to adopting new technologies like synchronized sound and color leads to Felix being overshadowed by rising competitors like Walt Disney's Mickey Mouse. This technological stagnation proves detrimental to the studio's fortunes.

Notable Quote:

• Gareth Reynolds [67:39]: "Spoken like a true thief."

6. Downfall and Legal Turmoil

Pat Sullivan's unethical behavior culminates in legal troubles, including charges of rape and moral depravity. His manipulative tactics to retain control over Felix's rights, including destructive and unprofessional conduct, further tarnish his legacy and contribute to the studio's eventual collapse.

Notable Quote:

• Dave Anthony [75:15]: "Pat threatened to sue, so he changed the name to Henry."

7. Otto Messmer's Recognition and Legacy

Despite Otto's critical role in Felix's creation, he remains unrecognized during his lifetime due to Sullivan's domineering presence. It is only after Sullivan's death in 1933 that Otto receives posthumous acknowledgment for his contributions. Otto's work gains historical significance, and his efforts are celebrated in retrospectives and documentaries, though he never reaps the full benefits of his creative genius.

Notable Quote:

• Dave Anthony [80:22]: "In 1971, Pat's nephew dies. And that's when animation historians learned that Otto was the creative force, if not the sole creative force, the main behind Felix the cat."

8. Reflection on the Animation Industry

Concluding the episode, Dave and Gareth reflect on the exploitative nature of the early animation industry, drawing parallels to modern practices. They critique the systemic issues that allow creatives like Otto to be overshadowed and abused by those seeking control and profit.

Notable Quote:

• Gareth Reynolds [81:16]: "You think of what we could have and how money completely all of that up."

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Conclusion

Episode 686 of "The Dollop" presents a darkly comedic yet poignant exploration of Felix the Cat's origins, highlighting the complex interplay between creativity, exploitation, and technological change in the early 20th-century animation industry. Through sharp dialogue and historical references, Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds offer listeners a nuanced perspective on an iconic cultural symbol.

Sources Mentioned:

• Wild Minds by Reed Mittenbuehler
• Felix by John Kennemaker
• The Birth of an Industry by Nicholas Simond
• The New York Times

Transcript

[Dave Anthony]

The Dollop is going on tour in June 2025. We will be in Sacramento on June 3rd. We'll be in Boise, Idaho, on June 4th, Spokane on June 5th, Seattle on June 6th, Portland on June 7th, Bend, Oregon on June 8th, and San Francisco on June 10th. Go to the dollop podcast.com to get all our tour links for tickets.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't start with a burp and blow.

[Dave Anthony]

You're listening to the Dollop on the All Things Comedy Network. This is an American history podcast recorded under SAG AFTRA union contract. I'm Dave Anthony. Read story from American history to guy who looks. You know. All right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Strike. Strike. I'm on strike. Meet us halfway. Gareth Reynolds has no idea what the topic is going to be about and will not work under these conditions.

[Dave Anthony]

What conditions?

[Gareth Reynolds]

This stuff. This is a sweatshop. You can't keep talking to me like that. How many.

[Dave Anthony]

Is that why your face is glistening?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't believe you haven't even. I don't know how you haven't noticed the elephant in the room.

[Dave Anthony]

The tattoo?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, the huge cut on my forehead.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, I couldn't see it because your hat was down.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's the idea. I'm trying to hide it.

[Dave Anthony]

How'd you do that, little guy Shower. Okay, are you 65 or older? What are we doing in the shower?

[Gareth Reynolds]

First of all, this union is under constant arrest from management, and we're not going to take it anymore. I. I was shaving in the shower, which is now, by the way. Have you started doing that the kids are doing.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah. I used to do that a lot, but I use. Obviously I have a beard, but I use.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But you trim here, don't you?

[Dave Anthony]

I use an electric.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, see, I'm still. I do a combo, but I shave. I give the clean shave to the part here. And I dropped the razor and I went over it. I went down to pick it up and I hit my head. I have a sliding glass shower door.

[Dave Anthony]

Sure.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I hit my head on the fucking handle so goddamn hard. And I was like, oh, no. How bad is this gonna be? And then I was like, oh, actually not that bad. And. And then so I was like, washing. You know, wash my face, my hair and stuff. And then all of a sudden, it was like, rusty. And I was like, wait a minute. And I was like, nope, it did dig me. And I was like, ah, shit. It was pretty bad.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, I love it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I do, too. But then also. Cause I'm all cut up in other way. I definitely look like I, like, got into Something.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. No. What happened there on your arm? What's going on with you? Are you being abused?

[Gareth Reynolds]

BlackBerry bush.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, you got blackberries where you live? You got BlackBerry bushes. Yeah, dude. I mean, I. When I was a kid, we had BlackBerry bushes everywhere. So I was. All summer long, I was just full of blackberries.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, boy. There's an album title full of blackberries. Wait, Dave, I know you're making fun of me publicly, personally, but June 5th, I have a new podcast called Next we have.

[Dave Anthony]

Now, this is the eighth podcast, or which podcast?

[Gareth Reynolds]

The eighth. And we're encouraging people to listen to it. But if you have to choose between the dollop and that, you know, we're saying stay here because we became union. So that is a chip I'll throw in the negotiating table. But it's on my YouTube and you can listen to it wherever you get.

[Dave Anthony]

Podcasts and say the name of it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Next we have. I said that.

[Dave Anthony]

Say the name of the actual podcast.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Next we have.

[Dave Anthony]

No, but what's the next we have?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't look. I look segmental.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, either way, it's bad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How many. How what would you. How many really close friends do you have and how long? I feel like every day. You're like a pal cicada.

[Dave Anthony]

I have. Well, I don't have as many as podcasts you have because I'm actually trying to bond with humans in real life.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I have bonds. I bonded with my BlackBerry bush.

[Dave Anthony]

1885. Year of our Lord Jesu Christo. J Town.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure. Who? No, you just follow the impulse to stop. Wait, did we even tell people we're on tour?

[Dave Anthony]

Got into huffing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Stop.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, Jesus is huffing gas. Rats. But it's because he's trying to bring the kids in and he does what he can, but Jesus is. He's huffing. He's getting into the huff.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're on tour. Dollapodcast.com this whole week?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, this whole week. Patrick O' Sullivan was born in Sydney, Australia.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Whoa. Okay. I'm gonna guess right off the bat, he's. He's part of the penal colony.

[Dave Anthony]

Nope. We don't know the day he was born because he doesn't have official birth records. Or didn't. He's. No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can I make a pitch? Better time when we didn't have birthdays. We should go back to that. We should go back.

[Dave Anthony]

I agree. But then everyone just makes up like they did with Jesus.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We don't know when he was born. He was born on Christmas Day under a tree.

[Dave Anthony]

His parents.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Santa was mushroom.

[Dave Anthony]

This Is breaking news.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jake Tapper started following me on Instagram.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh my God. Oh. He would follow me for literally eight minutes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know. I've got a nice thing where it's like if you don't dig too deep, it seems palatable, but once you start digging, you're like, oh, God. All right, this guy's calling for violence in the streets.

[Dave Anthony]

Just put up a. Put up a post about bloodthirsty Jake Tapper.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know, I know.

[Dave Anthony]

All right, so Patrick o' Sullivan's parents were Irish. His dad, Patrick o' Sullivan senior, was known around town as Sydney's oldest cab driver.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, wow. Cab driver. What year?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, but they didn't. You're thinking of a cab. Yeah, motor vehicle, but horse drawn cab. Pat didn't stay in school very long. As a teenager, he sometimes earned money by singing outside hotels with his friends.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I like that.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, that seems like something you would have done if. If you were born at this time, that's what you would have done in high school.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, that was tick tock. That was what it was. You and your buddies just went and like got like. I would have. If you're, if you're. If you're saying basically I'm attention mosquito.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I would have found anywhere to suck blood out of to fill my little butt sack.

[Dave Anthony]

You know, you should start a podcast about that. At 22, he left. He left Australia for London where he tried drawing comics to sell to newspapers and doing a song and dance act at a music hall.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't like that you said, this is very me. Because now I'm picturing that I would do everything he's doing. And I bet this goes south.

[Dave Anthony]

Yep. He had mid success. Mild. Not very much.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How many podcasts?

[Dave Anthony]

Not enough to make a living.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

He then dropped the O for Mo Sullivan.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's helpful.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Fuck yeah. Get rid of that Irish nonsense. Especially in London. It could have been the Irish. Helpful. Yeah. He got a job as a dad. And we only say that because the English are horrifically oppressive people who murdered the Irish for generations and oppressed them. And so when they came to London to get a job, they would oppress them further. That's the only reason I'm saying that. He got a job as a deckhand on a commercial ship going back and forth between London and the United States of America.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh yeah. Finally to a non colonizing zone. Great people, people very welcoming. Always looking to break bread with the land they stole.

[Dave Anthony]

It's. You're just. You're trying too hard.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I'M not worth worse genocide. US uk. I know the answer. Keep going, uk. Keep going.

[Dave Anthony]

The ship transported mules. Pat took care of the mules. He did that. Did that for a whole year.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And then one day, the boat was docked in New York harbor, and he jumped ship and swam to shore.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, okay. Is that. Is that.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, you're not supposed to jump ship, I assume. I assume he had a contract and was supposed to work.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's how you get out of it. Yeah, I like that.

[Dave Anthony]

Just jump overboard.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And now we have rocket money.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, that. That's an employee. That's an employee we don't have anymore. What's happening to these mules?

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, so he swam.

[Dave Anthony]

So that's how he becomes an American.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way. That's how Trump views America. Right now. They're jumping. Oh, I don't do Trump anymore.

[Dave Anthony]

So they. So he needs a job. So he got a job as a boxer. He's like, well, that'll. I can hit people Very, very short time because he. He ended up with a cauliflower ear and a flat nose.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, that is an Irish meal, not a flower ear.

[Dave Anthony]

You know, we don't eat. Right now. Is the English talking shit about the Irish?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm not English. That. I'm saying it's nice to have a bit of a cauliflower here, but if you can barrier on a flat face, one of those things. Bloody hell. It's nice with a bit of gravy upon it. Oh, that's nice. That goes nice.

[Dave Anthony]

You know what the problem with your accent right now is, is his accent, because he was born in Sydney and raised by Irish parents. It is a crazy amalgamation, I'm sure, of Irish. Yes, I'm sure it's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

May I attempt it?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I was telling him the other day that I jumped ship out there. Now it's too much Irish.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, now you sound like a leprechaun.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, here, let me try Australian, and I'll add in a little. I'll miss his dash. And some Irish. He's signed more night. The other day that we were. Day and night. Why? You need to tell him he's going a bit too hardy. Yeah. It's not easy.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. It's almost impossible.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I would say it just sounds like a bad Irish.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it does. That's all right. We're still proud of you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Thank you.

[Dave Anthony]

So he decides to go back to drawing because boxing doesn't work. The problem with that is he's not really a very good artist, but he's very charismatic and he's a really good storyteller, especially when it comes to anecdotes about his colorful past. So he gets a job at McClure's, which is a cartooning house, drawing comic strips that were syndicated to papers around the country.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

So he is an assistant to William Mariner, who's an old alcoholic who had. He had been a cartoonist since newspapers started printing comic strips.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

He was known for comics, which you'll. You'll know these names like Glad Rags, the Corpulent Tramp.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that's the best of the corpulent tramps.

[Dave Anthony]

Billy Blake's the boy burglar.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And Wags, the dog that adopted a man.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Absolutely. I love. Yeah, I love. I love that one. Those are all your favorite. Out of those.

[Dave Anthony]

Probably the boy burglar for me. Yeah. Wags, it's a real surprise.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's an upside down.

[Dave Anthony]

That's kind of what happened to you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What? Say it again. Say it to my face.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. You were adopted by an abusive cat. What?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You gotta stop.

[Dave Anthony]

I gotta stop? What? Where'd the cut come from?

[Gareth Reynolds]

This was from the shower. And this was from a BlackBerry bush.

[Dave Anthony]

For sure. Man.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm in a cell.

[Dave Anthony]

But Mariner's most popular comic was Sambo and his Funny Noises.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I. Oh, I really think that, and I've said this for a while, that noises translate to the written word very well. The zoinks and oopsie kerplush.

[Dave Anthony]

So Sambo and his funny noises were a light hearted.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sambo and his Funny Noises.

[Dave Anthony]

It's a light hearted strip about a naive black child who gets into funny scrapes with two white kids. What? You seem uncomfortable.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's not comfortable, but it could be worse. So far. So far I'm like, okay, this is not great, obviously, but it premise wise, when you hear a. In the 1800s, a comic featuring a black child, you're like, buckle up.

[Dave Anthony]

A common punchline is Sambo getting beaten up by the white boys.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So see, there's what I'm talking about. Now it is. Now it's awful and, you know, not to be enjoyed. So, yeah, there you go. There it is. You just gotta wait for the other shoe to hit the floor.

[Dave Anthony]

Or also getting credit for doing work the white boys have done.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Fuck me. Could you imagine? I bet you Stephen Miller's office is just like this. All over the wall.

[Dave Anthony]

The amazing reversal of making it. Making it seem like the whites aren't doing the stealing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think that's really what is so. If I may, amazing about the whites is the way that they're the worst. And then talk about how everyone's trying to take stuff away from them. Yeah, they steal everything and then shout, I've been robbed.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. It's really great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's really. And it seems to be in the DNA. Yeah, I keep the nature nurture part of it is very difficult.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good Lord. Every time you hear Stephen Miller talk, you're just like, wow, that's a lot of. To shoot out of a.

[Dave Anthony]

On October 1914, Mariner was drinking heavily at his summer home near Hackensack, and his wife took their child and left, as she often did when he got really hammered. So Mariner told the neighbor that if his wife didn't come back that night, he would burn down the village as you do. Like, what else can he.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What was her concern with him? He seems to be pretty balanced.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, she sounds like she's just weak.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Once again, if it's not a black kid taking credit, it's a white woman not understanding what we're going for.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, that night, Mariner lit his house on fire and then shot himself.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

That'll show her.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's a real kablooie.

[Dave Anthony]

His charred remains were found the next morning. So, like, I gotta say, that sounds like it worked out for everybody, but. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow, that is. That's quite an exit. That's quite a.

[Dave Anthony]

So tata. Now that's how, at the age of 29, Pat Sullivan took over the comic strip Sambo and his Funny Noises.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So this. So for him, when Mariner Self Amalgamated, or whatever it's called, he was like, ah, this is great.

[Dave Anthony]

All right, I got. I got. Yeah, I get full control.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Awesome.

[Dave Anthony]

So he ghost wrote the strip for a year until McClure ended it. And then Pat rebooted one of Mariner's old comic strips.

[Gareth Reynolds]

See, this one we thought was in poor taste, but now we can bring it back.

[Dave Anthony]

Johnny Boston Beans.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, let's. Let's party.

[Dave Anthony]

Which ended in 1905. But he changed the name to. I don't. I see. I. Someone did the research for me on this one, Sarah, and it says Johnny. So he changed his name to Johnny Boston Beans. So I think. I think the difference is, is that Boston Beans is one word when Mariner did the strip and then he separated the two words, so now it's Johnny Boston.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So, like, they were like, legally, we're clear.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. So now he wouldn't have to pay the estate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. I like to call that one Everything Stupid.

[Dave Anthony]

So animation. Is a very new technology that's still not really popular.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Pat charms his way into a job at Raul Bar Animation Animated Studios. Sorry, Blip. Raul Bar Animated cartoons in the Bronx.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

And Ed Bar works on a series of films for Edison Film Company called the Animated Grouch Chasers.

[Gareth Reynolds]

These names are coming hot.

[Dave Anthony]

I want to see.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I want to see chasers.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Have you tried to find the Grouch Chasers?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, no, I'm sure it doesn't exist.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Anymore, but there's no way. Grouch Chasers, Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Pat is supposed to be learning on the job, but he's not really good at the whole learning student thing. Heavy drinking, very common amongst animators, but even by their standards, Pat is an absolute drunken mess.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You need a steady hand to do your animating.

[Dave Anthony]

That's correct.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

He's constantly late, he's visibly hungover, and he reeks of alcohol.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dave. I think he was drinking.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, also, Gareth, he's not that great at. At animating to start with. Do you remember that part? Like, he's not very good at it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

So this is not a good combo.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

So Bar found his work, quote, unsatisfactory and fires him. Nine months. That's how he. That's how long he lasted. Nine months. So Pat then starts his own animation studio.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good.

[Dave Anthony]

Pat Sullivan Productions. And he's much, much better at producing than he is at animating, mostly because he copied everything he had seen Barr do. He even negotiated.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Copied his management style.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, everything.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Anthony]

He even negotiated his own deal to make cartoon ads for Edison Film Company because Barr had a deal with Edison Film Company. So Pat adapted Sambo and his funny noises into a cartoon. And once again, he changed the main character's name to avoid getting sued by the Mariner fan Blob family. And Sambo became Sammy Johnson with, well, J O H N S I N Johnson.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, first of all, it's nice that the Mariner family is finally going to get screwed over by life. And second of all, am I the only one who's glad that the. The comic about abusing a young black child is back and now we get to actually see it, you know, move?

[Dave Anthony]

No. Yeah, yeah, I think you are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, we get to see. No, no, no, no, no. Hold on. All right, hold on. Oh, don't. Don't woke me now. Let me finish. Don't woke me. Let me finish. It'll be nice to see it with motion.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, we're not. Yeah, okay, that's great. I'm excited for you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't put me on an island alone.

[Dave Anthony]

Here you're on an island alone. The studio cranked out cartoons like Sammy Johnson, Hunter, Sammy Johnson Strongman. Sammy Johnson Slumbers. Not Sammy Johnson Gets a Job, Sammy Johnson in Mexico, Sammy Johnson at the Seaside. Etc, on and on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's like Earnest.

[Dave Anthony]

And the reason he's cranking him out, Gareth, is because Sammy Johnson's a hit.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

After a year, Pat hired a young artist named Otto Messmer. And Otto's father was a Bavarian immigrant and his mother was a ger. And they both worked in factories in New Jersey, and that's where Otto was born and raised. Okay, so after high school, Otto trained in art through night classes and correspondence courses, and he builds up a portfolio by selling cartoons and humorous poems to newspapers and magazines. Would you like to hear a poem?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

One of Otto's poems. Well, okay, then I'll read it. It's called Ode to an Old Straw Hat.

[Gareth Reynolds]

People.

[Dave Anthony]

In these hands, last spring when the winds grew warmer, I purchased mere lid. Two bucks was the sum invested. My winter hat I hid of straw was the thing I purchased it cooled my shining plate but now are my teardrops falling for we must part. Tis fate, Tis weak that I thus am sobbing and I fain wouldst can the weep But I sigh when I think of winter when my straw lid must sleep.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. So a seasonal eulogy to a hat.

[Dave Anthony]

That's correct. Well, you got to put them away.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. It's tough. And. And just. Just to be clear, because we've talked about a lot of stuff on this show.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

If you wore it outside of straw hat time, it was insane.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Past Labor Day. You're gonna get the kicked out of here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Of all the times to time travel back to that might be.

[Dave Anthony]

That might be watching. Watching the Straw Hat Riot would have been pretty.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just to. Just to go back, just to be like. It's just. It's awesome.

[Dave Anthony]

So Otto is witty, but he's also very shy. He felt self conscious signing his name on. On his art, so he would sometimes sign it with the pen name Otz. Otz Oughtz.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

He was inspired by the early animated films of Windsor McKay, and he figured out the fundamentals of animation. And when he was 24, he got his first animator job at Pat Sullivan Studios.

[Gareth Reynolds]

As far as how they're actually animating, what are they doing? I mean, are they like.

[Dave Anthony]

It is just the drawing by hand.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Drawing by hand and then just taking stills and just editing stills. Basically. Like. Like clipping together stills.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I believe so.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. Right.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't think. I don't think it's Flipbook. I think we're actually talking about. Because these are. Yeah, these are. Yeah, this is actual animation. So Pat made his animators study pictures and films of famous comic actors so they can learn their comedic timing and funny movements, which is another thing that he stole from Barr and that kept. That's something that still happened. That's like in Aladdin with Robin Williams and the Little Mermaid. Like, that's something that's still is a thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So totally.

[Dave Anthony]

And that's actually why a lot of the early cartoons portrayed characters in blackface, white gloves or white face, because the. They were based on vaudeville or minstrel show. Guys, all good.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Listen to you. Once again trying to excuse away blackface again, man.

[Dave Anthony]

In his first year at Pat Sullivan Studios, Otto mostly worked on a series of 12 Charlie Chaplin cartoons. Chaplin sent a stack of photographs of himself in different poses for the animators to draw him, and Otto just studied them religiously. He's not a fan of devices like Max Fleischer's Rotoscope, which required subjects in live action and then drawing animated characters over them. He thought a cartoon is best when it shows things that are physically impossible.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote, why animate something you can see in real life?

[Gareth Reynolds]

So they still say that, by the way.

[Dave Anthony]

I say that all the time. No, I say that. No, it's one of my most common sayings that people love in the business.

[Gareth Reynolds]

If people want to see animated dollop stuff, go to Lakesided on YouTube.

[Dave Anthony]

Otto had been a Pat Sullivan at Pat Sullivan Studios for a year when World War I breaks out and he is drafted. So he married his girlfriend right before he ships off. Pat did not fight in World War I, probably because he a U.S. citizen. He's just a guy who jumped shore and swam here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So wait, he goes there and then. Oh, no, no, he's. He's here. He's just not even draftable.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, Pat's like, I guess not on the records or something. So. Otto is a corporal in the Army Signal Corps, and once he was just chatting with another soldier in a trench, looking, you know, out on the horizon, when in the middle of the conversation, just a bullet goes through the other guy's head and. And he dies.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Fuck.

[Dave Anthony]

Which will happen. That'll happen to you another time. Someone in his unit shot and wounded a German sniper, and the sniper was still alive when the Americans got to him. Otto, who spoke German, confronted him during his final moments, and the German offered the Americans his last Cigarettes. For the rest of his life, Otto almost never spoke about his time on the battlefield.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is there any reason he didn't want to talk about it? Was it tough for him to talk about the time that a guy that he'd just been invol involved in murdering offered him his last smoke? Holy. There is not a. I mean that's quite an encapsulation of the issue with goddamn war. Just like two, two humans who are just like, what's this about? Although obviously Germany was pushing.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, the thing about wars, it's how all the people are fighting and not the guys who.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's what I mean, you're just, you're just checkers. But now the good news is we don't even. We don't even know about those anymore because we could just do it without. Now it's just some fucking dude in a room just fuck or woman or non binary. Just in a room with a. Fucking. With. Playing. Playing a video game where they're just droning the shit out of people and.

[Dave Anthony]

Getting deeply, deeply emotionally scarred and having terrible mental damage.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, what about that seems troubling? The fact that sitting in an air conditioned room, murdering a family in April.

[Dave Anthony]

1917, while Otto is in the war, Pat is hanging out with Ernest Smythe, who's an old friend from London, he's also an animator at the studio. And Pat and Ernest begin flirting with two girls who are staying in a rented apartment in the same building is a studio. And then he's like, you want to go to a bar? You want to get some cocktails? So the girls are like, yeah, we'll go to a bar. They have a, you know, round of cream to mints. And girls are Alice and Gladys wants brunette, once blonde. Did I mention 14 and 15 years old?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Did I mention. I think I probably should have started when I said girls.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean literal girls.

[Dave Anthony]

They had run away from home five days before and they just wanted to be actresses in the big city. And then so they're like, yeah, we're animators, we're in show business. Which impresses the young girls because they're girls. And so they go out with patterns the next night. And then on the third night, Pat is like, Alice, let's just you and I go out. And then. And then a week later the cops show up at the studio and they arrest Pat and Ernst. Ernst is charged with abduction, which was later reduced to impairing morals. Which is something you need to think about.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dave Anthony]

And Pat was charged with rape.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I. I gotta Be honest. I'm surprised that that last part happened. I'm glad.

[Dave Anthony]

I am, too.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That, to me, feels like. I feel like, you know, like anytime you went into a bar, it looked like a daddy daughter dance. And you were just like, yeah, whatever.

[Dave Anthony]

But I think because these were runaway girls.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

That's probably it. But, yeah, I know what you mean. Like, it was. Yeah, it was a free for all.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's just like when someone gets arrested for murder in the 1800s. You're like, wait, what? Wasn't. Wasn't everybody murdering?

[Dave Anthony]

So Alice testified that it wasn't consensual her first time. Also, he gave her venereal disease, which is really just a. He's just a great. Anyway, he's convicted. He gets. The maximum sentence was 10 years. Pat's wife Marjorie, writes a letter to the judge asking the judge to be lenient on her husband, who's just convicted of rape. It was on Sullivan studio stationary, the letter she wrote, and decorated with images of Sammy Johnson, the beloved cartoon character, the J.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just trying to flood the system, I guess.

[Dave Anthony]

Pat's lawyer also did the same, arguing that his client.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My client believes that he is working under cartoon law, where a man can swallow a grenade and survive. Where if a Fella gets shot 15 times and drinks water, it shoots out of him in all different directions. Where gravity only exists once you realize you've bent it.

[Dave Anthony]

I hate to break this to you. That's not happening in cartoons yet.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I guess I figured they're not there yet.

[Dave Anthony]

It's all very realistic.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. All right. I don't know. I got no excuse then.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, because they're basically saying the beloved racist cartoon is, this is the guy who makes it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, I gotta say, there's been a lot of grim times in American history, but trying to excuse your venereal rape away with beloved racism. It's up there.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. So his lawyer's literally like, look, he's this. He's this animator guy, and, you know, you should give him some time off, because that's really important. And so the judge agrees that Pat was, quote, a man of very considerable ability and sentenced him to just two years in Sing Sing Prison. In the end, he ends up only serving nine months and three days. Now, his studio would close down while he was in prison, but reopened when he comes back. And in 1919, imagine working for him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just be like, christ, dude, how's everyone doing? Let's do some. What do we. Let's do lunch in the communal cafeteria.

[Dave Anthony]

So, yeah. So Otto comes back in 1919, from the war. The studio's open, but it's barely. At this point, it's really having a hard time. Okay. So Auto starts making chaplain cartoons again, which puts the studio back in business.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So much seen what he's just seen, and he's like, re. He's just picturing the bullet going through his friend's head over and over again.

[Dave Anthony]

But it turns the studio around again, and now they're actually turning down work. So Paramount approaches to make a few original cartoons for a film package, which is like a bundle of features and shorts and cartoons and newsreels and stuff. So Pat almost says no because they're so busy, but Otto wants. He wants to pitch something new, and Pat says, okay, go for it. As long as it doesn't interfere with the other work we have. Like, that comes first. So Otto agrees and works on nights and weekends to complete the side job. And the cartoon is called Feline Follies.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now we're talking.

[Dave Anthony]

Are you excited?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Mischievous.

[Dave Anthony]

It features a black cat called Master Tom who romances another cat called Miss Kitty White. And Miss Kitty.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can you just make it about cats, you sons of bitches?

[Dave Anthony]

What's your deal, Todd? It's sexy. And Miss Kitty? When Miss Kitty reveals she has a litter of Tom's kittens, Tom commits suicide by inhaling coal gas.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What? Just got said. What? This is the cartoon. Is that true?

[Dave Anthony]

Remember, Otto just came back from war, so he's dealing with some war. He's. He's working some out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm gonna take the kids down to the little theater there. We're probably gonna watch a cartoon. Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, the Paramount executive in charge, John King, loves it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And this is great. Can we see penetration? Let's see the little cat Dick.

[Dave Anthony]

He tells Otto to make another one.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So go darker.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, make it worse. Can there be blood and guts somehow?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's really see it.

[Dave Anthony]

So Feline Follies premieres on November 19.

[Gareth Reynolds]

1990, is about a litter abandoned and that Tom offs himself.

[Dave Anthony]

Technically, those are fault.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait a minute. I got an idea. Now what? I'm wondering if I'm. I have a funny cling of where this goes.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh. By the end of the year, Otto had finished the third short featuring the cat. And Master Tom had a new name. Felix.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. Even weirder.

[Dave Anthony]

Between 1919 and 1921, Otto made 25 Felix the Cat shorts for Paramount.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Holy.

[Dave Anthony]

They're popular, but not lucrative. Lucrative enough for Paramount boss Adolf Zucker. And in 1920s, Zucker decided to cut the package of films that the Felix series was part of. And when Pat heard this, he realized he didn't own the rights to Felix. Paramount did.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Whoops. Yeah. That's why they say, never trust an Adolf.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, that and there's other reasons, but. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, that comes from this, probably.

[Dave Anthony]

There was another thing. We haven't done a dollop on it, so you probably don't know about it, but it's not great. It's not animated. It's bad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Huh. Interesting. I'd love to learn more about it.

[Dave Anthony]

No one knows for sure how Pat got the rights to Felix from Paramount. One of Pat's animators said Pat told the story once and only once. And given Pat's record may not be true at all. But Pat said he got shit faced drunk. Okay, we can obviously believe that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good start.

[Dave Anthony]

And he barged into Zucker's office screaming that he had been robbed and stood on Zucker's desk and started pissing all over his papers. Zucker then picked up his phone and told his attorney to hand over the rights.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I mean, there's a lesson here. There's always the nuclear.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, I could see that working.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I could do. Not just because it's. Because it's. You're just like, I can't be involved with this guy. Get him out of my life completely.

[Dave Anthony]

It's in chapter six of the Art of the Deal by Donald Trump.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Never. Never. If I wanted to reenact it more.

[Dave Anthony]

So the story would be impossible to believe if Pat hadn't actually nabbed the rights. Maybe Zucker just wanted to get the crazy man out of his office. But either way, Pat then tried to sell the series to Warner Brothers, but they're not. They're not down.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You pissed all over another guy's desk. So we don't care to make a deal with you.

[Dave Anthony]

So Harry Warner reaches out to Margaret Winkler, who is his former secretary, to take it on as part of her new distribution business. Okay, so M.J. winkler Pictures. So from 1922 to 1925, Pat Sullivan Studios made 64 Phoenix shorts under M.J. winkler Pictures. And Felix becomes a worldwide hit. It's massive.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

So Felix physical appearance is drawn from Otto's studies of Charlie Chaplin. He communicates directly with the audience by winking or holding up a finger and doing something funny. He has signature movements. Most famously pacing back and forth with his hands behind his back while thinking about a problem.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And before Felix cartoon characters would be designed and animated for one short film, and then that's it. Then they're done.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Huh? Wait, what do you mean? They would.

[Dave Anthony]

You're one off. They're all one off.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, so they weren't like, keeping cells or whatever. They're like, throw it in the trash. So the reanimator's like, I feel like I drew this already. We got him walking. We got a bunch of him walking in the garbage.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, so there's like, no, there's no franchise. There's no, like. Yeah, once you're done with the character, you just never bring them back. Like, you're done with them. Imagine, even the characters that did recur didn't have distinct personalities. It's just like a funny dog and cats. Like, it's not, you know, the same thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

But Felix has a strong, unique personality, and he breaks the fourth wall and rules of reality in ways American animation has never done.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Did he ever look into the camera and say, you know, the guy who funds these was convicted of rape? No.

[Dave Anthony]

No, he didn't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And the rights were returned because he pissed all over a guy's desk.

[Dave Anthony]

So. So the. There's also this. The fluid movement between reality and fantasy. So wild visual gags that Otto was so good at inventing. He, like the thing you were talking about before the. The getting shot and the. Then all the. The like water coming out of you or like all those things. This is the guy who came up with all that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like, he.

[Dave Anthony]

He took it to the fantasy level, right? He took it out of reality and it's like revolutionary. Like, people are just like, holy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[Dave Anthony]

You could draw whatever you want. This is.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. How the hell did he get him to fly? How do you train a cartoon cat how to do that?

[Dave Anthony]

Gareth, this dollop, this podcast, whatever this is, is sponsored by Squarespace Dave. Our favorites are sweet, sweet Squarespace Dave. We've been using Squarespace for a long time. If you don't know what it is, it's an all in one platform, website platform that helps you stand out and succeed online. It doesn't matter if you're just starting out or you're scaling your business, whatever you're doing Squarespace gives you, you need claim your domain, showcase what you're doing with professional website, show your brand, get paid all.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I just recommended it yesterday. My mother has a friend who I don't even know what the hell she's doing, but she's just wants to. She wants to like expand this brand.

[Dave Anthony]

Let's just say. Let's say she's Doing? She's. She's starting a business where it's male, straight to home crab cakes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, we're not taking pits. It's not at all what it is. It's actually, like, way more normal and helpful than that. It's called crab cakes. No, it isn't. It isn't. It is not. No, let me tell the story. Okay. It's not even a story. I just told my mother. I was like, go to Squarespace and you'll be fine. And tell her to do that. But you've ruined it with your little weird crap.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, I mean, yeah, but now if you go, you can get. Stop bringing up crab cakes right to your house.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, that's not what she's offering. She's in the uk, you. You fool.

[Dave Anthony]

And, yeah, but she loves. She loves Squarespace, and we don't swear during our ads.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know.

[Dave Anthony]

And the reason. The reason Garrett sent Crab Cake Sally to Squarespace was because. Super easy to use.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

That's why we highly recommend it. We have been using it for a long time because it is easy and we are morons.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Your website, my website, Dollop website, all Squarespace. Love it. We will be having merch on our Squarespace very soon.

[Dave Anthony]

Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid on time with professionals.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You got your SEO tools.

[Dave Anthony]

Yep. All of it. It's all there. Makes it easy to showcase your expert, engage with the clients with video content on your website, upload and organize your videos, create stunning video libraries, even monetize your content by adding a paywall. So you want to put the crab cakes behind a paywall? Do it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why would she do that in this business? That isn't real? Why is she going to put the thing that you're saying her website is about behind a paywall?

[Dave Anthony]

Because it makes them seem more special to say.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But then she's not going to make any money. No, there's not. That's not how you would use it.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, all I'm saying is keep the videos of how to make the crab cakes behind a paywall.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So she's. She's teaching people how to make them now. It's not even real business.

[Dave Anthony]

Go to squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, use offer code dollop to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com dollar for a free trial. When you're ready to Launch, use offer code $ to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain. And tell Them Sally sent you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Do not.

[Dave Anthony]

Sally's crab cakes. Why are you so mad? Do you not like crab cakes?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I just think the whole thing got ruined.

[Dave Anthony]

They come straight to your home and they're still no.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They don't. They're no what? Don't promise that.

[Dave Anthony]

Garretts were also brought to you by Helix Sleep. Yeah, girl.

[Gareth Reynolds]

California King Ducks luxury.

[Dave Anthony]

I use an apple watch to sleep, and it keeps track of my sleeps. It's like, you did good, you did bad. What are you doing? It does that kind of stuff. And using it now and sleeping on a Helix mattress, I'm getting just, hey, great job. Fantastic sleep.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The level of craving my Helix when I'm on the road is off the charts. The difference in sleep, it's astounding.

[Dave Anthony]

It's so comfortable. It really is the best. It is the best mattress. Yeah. When I sleep on the road, I'm just like, what is this? Are we calling this a bed? What do we.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And because it comes in a like. Because you, like, you open up the bed, part of you wants to take it to a hotel, but you can't put it back in the packaging once it's.

[Dave Anthony]

You can't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's like a genie.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, it's just like you can't put a baby back in a mama once the baby's out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Uh huh. All right.

[Dave Anthony]

So we both love Helix. We? You took a little quiz. It tells you the. On the California Duck flex. Yeah. It tells you the best. The best one for you. And Gareth and I, we sleep the same, which is why we usually sleep in the same bed on the road.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're trying to.

[Dave Anthony]

And we can swap beds and we can swap lives.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And our sleep has read the fine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Print when signing up for this mattress because that's the whole. I didn't realize he was legally allowed to take over my life.

[Dave Anthony]

We are big fans.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

You're gonna go. Helixleep.com dollop for summer sale, which is from June 2 to June 12. It's 20% off state. That's Helix Sleep. Helixsleep.com dob for the summer sale, June 2, 2025 to 6-12-20 off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. That's the dollop. Helixsleep.com dollop yeah. It's also seen as very artistic. Before this gags, like I said, very real. Like a pratfall. Stuff like that. But Felix would do things like remove his tail, use it as a screwdriver, and then put it back On. Or take the number four off a calendar and turn it into a chair. He can sneak it can sneak in a building magician.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, Danny's not real.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not. Don't tell me it's not real. I'm watching it with my eyes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That tail. The tail only exists because a man drew that. Do you understand?

[Dave Anthony]

He took it off his bottom.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no, no. But he.

[Dave Anthony]

How is it? A screwdriver.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's. He's a fake.

[Dave Anthony]

I feel like I'm losing my mind.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, Dan. Dan, no. It's rain.

[Dave Anthony]

I just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no, no, no, no, no. But, honey, honey, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Dave Anthony]

I saw. No, no, you didn't saw men kill.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I know.

[Dave Anthony]

In the war.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know.

[Dave Anthony]

None of them were able to stop.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The leak with a cork. No, they. But they weren't. Nobody. Even if someone were to be shot today, God forbid, they wouldn't be able to put nine corks in it and stop the water they drank from coming out of it.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm not taking off my hat because there might be an explosion.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, what's strange is that we haven't seen that in any of the cartoons.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So what? Yeah, okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right.

[Dave Anthony]

You understand how this is fucked up my world?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, absolutely. We should just.

[Dave Anthony]

What's real anymore?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, I just. I don't know, but I'd say the stuff Felix does is not real. And our lives remain quite real.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, are you ready for deep fakes, then, motherfucker?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, well, it's just. Let's. Let's take this outside of the theater. Let's leave the picture, Hoss.

[Dave Anthony]

He could also take the sun out of the sky.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, no. First of all. No. First of all, we'd go into. We'd die. First of all, we'd either burn or hit an ice age. So. No.

[Dave Anthony]

And make it in the body of a banjo and play it. He could tip his ears like a hat.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Everyone get. Everyone get your hats. This guy play the sun anymore?

[Dave Anthony]

He could tip his ears like a hat.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

When he was confused, a question mark appeared over his head, which he would grab and use as a fish hook, or straighten it out and use it as a baton.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I've had about enough of this.

[Dave Anthony]

When he got an idea and three exclamation points appeared over his head, he could gather them, fashion them into a propeller, and use it to fly away. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The amount of people who, like, were out there, like, if I could just get the. The question marks to appear, that's the battle getting. Turning them into A copter is not going to be a problem.

[Dave Anthony]

I just love.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why won't they appear?

[Dave Anthony]

It's just so amazing. This is blowing people's minds, right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, yeah. Wait. People are probably like, put the cat in water, drown it. They're dangerous. By the way, Jose just came over. Very interesting.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm sure he did.

[Gareth Reynolds]

For some reason, he's like, hello.

[Dave Anthony]

So press around the world considered Felix an icon of the era. Marcel Brion of the Academy of Francais quote. He becomes the impossible. Nothing is more familiar to him than the extraordinary. And when it is not surrounded by the fantastic, he creates it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The whole thing is that even if the environment is banal, Felix will make it dynamic. It has, without question, ruined my marriage. There's no way to return home and have a conversation with a normie after you see that. Felix takes his talk bubble, expands it into an ocean, swims upon it, catches a squid, turns it into calamari, and then returns it back to its normal talk bubble farm.

[Dave Anthony]

George Bernard Shaw quote.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Whoa. George Bernard Shaw. It's really amazing.

[Dave Anthony]

If Michelangelo were now alive, I would not have the slightest doubt that he would have his letterbox filled with proposals from the great film firms to concentrate his powers to the delineation of Felix the Cat instead of the Sistine Chapel.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is. That's pretty sad, to be quite honest with you.

[Dave Anthony]

If.

[Gareth Reynolds]

To be like Michelangelo's like, no, no, no. The Sistine Chapel. Just walking in just like, wow, look at that. Felix touching his own question mark in a real. And it's where he's. Look at that, honey. He's playing the banjo.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, that's naughty. Oh, my goodness.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, the guy who came up with this has quite a checkered past.

[Dave Anthony]

So Felix the Cat cartoons remain very dark and relatively topical. In Felix Revolts, a town council bans cats. And Felix becomes an organizer, unionizing the cats to strike so that rats run wild in the town.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't. That is like. I mean, I was gonna. Yeah, that's just like that. Just for everybody.

[Dave Anthony]

That just shows that Otto is doing all of the art because. And Pat's not paying attention because. Because that's Otto going, I'm getting not. I'm not treated well.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's great. Look at all these dirty rats out there ruining society.

[Dave Anthony]

In Felix Turns the Tide, rats declare war on cats. Hell, yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

Hell, yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We can like both rats and cats. No.

[Dave Anthony]

And Felix joins the army to fight on the battlefield.

[Gareth Reynolds]

His bodies get one right in the head.

[Dave Anthony]

On the battlefield, dead bodies pile up, clearly from Otto's Experiences in World War I.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, my only note is when Felix says, I'm Otto. I need therapy. Please help. We should lose that. That's kind of off topic.

[Dave Anthony]

It's just crazy how much death there. Like, it's. It's just a guy working out his shit because of fucking.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's just fully just trying to process his trauma. He has ptsd, and instead he's just animating it.

[Dave Anthony]

It's really insane. By 1925, Felix was by far the most popular cartoon character in the world. For many non Americans, including Italian director Federico Fellini, he was their first taste of American culture.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Charlie, Someday I hope to meet a Felix in a workout with him.

[Dave Anthony]

Charlie Chaplin regularly praised him, and Buster Keaton parodied him in Go West.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, really? I fucking love Buster Keaton.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, he's the best.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The best.

[Dave Anthony]

Felix was merchandised in a way no other cartoon character.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, did you see when Buster Ken Keaton had to transition to the talkie? Like, the first time we heard him talk, you were like, what's going on? Oh, yeah, because he was like so great with his face. And then he was just in a movie, he's like, I don't know, maybe we'll call Marge. And everyone's like, okay, we're actually. We're getting to goo here.

[Dave Anthony]

So he's merchandised in a way that no other cartoon character has ever been. He had two radio hits, Felix the Cat and Felix kept on Walking. There were Felix, tie pins, Brute, brooches, clocks, Christmas ornaments, cigars, car radiator caps, baby oil, blankets, radios, records, and sheet music.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ. So this is. I mean, this is. Yeah, the full on, by the way, it's. I can't really criticize while I'm surrounded by Jose merchandise, but that. So it's like. It's the first time where it's. This is hitting on this level. It's Disney.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Felix became the British polo team's official.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Mascot, which an absolute honor to finally find ourselves. Now, look, I understand that today it maybe feels low stakes, but remember, what would Felix do? Well, I think he'd take the head off of his mallet and he'd turn it into a gavel, and he'd see a trial where he would say that the gentlemen were playing should no longer exist. A bit heady, but something like that could work for aisle.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's the first. He's the first giant balloon ever made for a Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What the fuck was that Parade before.

[Dave Anthony]

That I can't imagine just probably us.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just being like, we stole the land.

[Dave Anthony]

So the merchandising, merchandising rights are making Pat Solman 100,000 a year, which is about 1.8 million today. And then he got 8,000 per Felix film, most of which Otto writes and directs.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

And 80,000 per year for the Felix cartoon strip, which Otto again wrote. And then he would actually sign Pat's name on it. And from 1922 to 1925, Pat made almost 19 million in today's money. And in 1925, the starting salary for an animator at Pat Sullivan Studios was. Do you want to guess? A week?

[Gareth Reynolds]

The starting salary a week. Oh, God, $20.

[Dave Anthony]

Less 10.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, Jesus Christ. God damn, we are sick. We are sick.

[Dave Anthony]

So that's about. In today's money, that would be about 8,600 a year in the fall of 1925, Pat and Marjorie, and by the way, 1925 animation, what do I want to call it, just exploitation continues today like it is one of the most exploitive parts of show business.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Having worked on a few animated things, the amount you kind of can't even get over the idea that factored into the budget is the work will be coming from Malaysia.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's terrible.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm sure that that's going real healthy and great over there.

[Dave Anthony]

And it's, you know, it's also like most of it's not unionized and you're still sending it out. You're already paying people shit in America and now you're like, well, let's not do it here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's not shitty enough. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So in the fall of 1925, Pat and Marjorie went on a five month Felix promotional tour through England, France, the Mediterranean, Africa, China and Australia.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

They sailed on a luxury ocean liner, the HMS Majestic. Reporters often asked Pat about Felix's origins.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can only imagine that tail built and built.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, he changed his, he, he would change the story depending on the audience, but he never mentioned Otto and always referred to himself as Felix's only creator. In the press, Pat used a rags to riches storyline, calling himself, quote, a poor boy who made good abroad. Sometimes Pat brought up Sammy Johnson and tied into Felix.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who is Sammy Johnson again?

[Dave Anthony]

Sammy Johnson's the, oh, the old.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right, yeah, yeah, right.

[Dave Anthony]

The Sambo character that he changed. More often, he would say his wife came up with the idea. Quote, she came bursting into the studio carrying in her arms the most washed out, popeyed, half starved ragamuffin of a cat that ever lived. In a New York back street. And she said, she said, everybody's drawing men. Why not do an animal feature? And that was how Felix began.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Completely untrue.

[Dave Anthony]

Just totally fabricated. 100 fabricated.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, but. But he's trying to make up for the fact that he, you know, that there was a statutory charge.

[Dave Anthony]

There's that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So you know what I mean? You got to remember, it's always in the back of his normal mind.

[Dave Anthony]

Sometimes. Pat said Felix's name came from the phrase Australia Felix, a term used by early European settlers on the continent. Don't know what it means.

[Gareth Reynolds]

When it was a penal colony, there.

[Dave Anthony]

Was also a 1917 novel called Australia Felix. Pat said Felix was named and. Or colored black after the black Australian boxer Peter Felix. Also, should I mention that Pat would not hire any black animators at his studio?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. If you can.

[Dave Anthony]

If you can imagine. If you can imagine that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's good. Meanwhile, sky sounded pretty. Pretty good, by the way. May I say, ahead of his time a little bit.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So while this is going on, Otto is actually writing and directing the Felix cartoons. According to Sullivan studio animators, Pat hardly ever came into the office. Otto ran the studio when Pat was away, during which he would forge Pat's signature on checks, memos and other paperwork. So Otto's running the studio completely and drawing. He's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's the guy. It's his studio.

[Dave Anthony]

It's literally all him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Meanwhile, the. Meanwhile, Pat's abroad with his wife, saying that she helped him conceive at all.

[Dave Anthony]

This is. This is capitalism.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

What? Pat did show up. Sorry? When Pat did show up, he would stumble through the doorway, ha. Toss a bag of dirty laundry to the nearest animator and tell him to take it to the cleaners.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I gotta say, though, to only show up to work when you're drunk is pretty awesome. Like to just get hammered and be like, I should go to the office if the animator do my laundry.

[Dave Anthony]

If the animator didn't jump up fast enough to do laundry, Pat would fire him on the spot.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

What's the tinkling? Is the cat playing with the something?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No. You hear that? It's a wind chime.

[Dave Anthony]

What is it? Yeah, I hear your wind chime.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is that magic? Want me to close the door? It's far away.

[Dave Anthony]

It's fine. It's weird, but we can.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It kind of sets the mood.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm sure somebody will scream about it, but that's just them not being able to handle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, you took an icy sip earlier, and in my head I thought there's a comment.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, yeah, sorry, sorry. We're living.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The idea of doing this without water is shocking. Like, when someone was just basically like, is it possible for you guys to just hydrate before it's like, you know.

[Dave Anthony]

Why don't we just get IV bags?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why don't we just work for Pat?

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so he would fire the guy, and then Otto would give him a severance check and send the guy home. And then the next day, the animator would just quietly sneak into work and. And Pat would have forgot about it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So best case scenario would be to not get up fast enough when he wanted his laundry done. Because then you would get severance and weekly. I mean, yeah, so that's what I would do. I'd be like, do your laundry, you're fine.

[Dave Anthony]

That's right. That's actually. Yeah. So Pat's employee, Seamus Calhoun. How do you say C U L H A N E. C U L.

[Gareth Reynolds]

H A N E. Culhane.

[Dave Anthony]

Culhane. Yeah, probably Culhane. Seamus Culhane. And not as a bunch Irish people screaming. Pat's employee Seamus Cohane, called Pat, quote, the most consistent man in the business. Consistent in that he was never sober. Like any pop culture phenomenon, Felix had many imitators. Cartoonist Paul Terry, creator of Mighty Mouse, introduced a cat that looks similar to Felix. It was also named Felix.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, you pushed it. You pushed it.

[Dave Anthony]

I love that guy. Just, he's. He's just the least creative thief on the. On the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just coming in, like, you feel like. Guys, I had an idea last night for how we can take a slice of this Felix action. So Mighty Mouse will now will introduce a cat into Mighty Mouse's world.

[Dave Anthony]

Huh?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Kind of a little bit antagonistic. Doesn't play by the rules of physics, is not bounded by the society norms in any way.

[Dave Anthony]

Sounds exactly like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Got a real Felix feeling to him. Yeah, he sounds like Felix, but he's not Felix. And he's in Mighty Mouse's world. And I think he could be a bit of an antagonist for Mighty Mouse, which we've been looking for. I think this way we could capture some of the feelings.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

What's his name? What are we doing? Felix.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're gonna call him Felix. He will also be named Felix. He is Felix the cat that. I have to go. I'm about to golf. All right, guys.

[Dave Anthony]

This is terrible. Pat threatened to sue, so he changed the name to Henry.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Did you not expect that lawsuit? How did you not like? The only way that's not a lawsuit of is he never finds out how.

[Dave Anthony]

Do you change it to Henry? Also fine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We'll call him Hank. Fine.

[Dave Anthony]

John Bray, who had gotten an animation by faking being a reporter to interview Windsor McKay about his production methods and then tried to copyright the methods that McKay told him about. And then he sued McKay for using them and created a created character named Thomas the Cat who looked exactly like Phoenix. Felix. So animators are loaded.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is a loaded operation. I am reporting the name of the publication, the Real Times.

[Dave Anthony]

At Margaret Winkler's suggestion, Walt Disney, very early in his career created a Felix ish rabbit called osw in which which in combination with the Disney studio style and use of sound became very successful. Now, Pat was pissed that Winkler ripped off Felix, so he switches distributors.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's so great for him to be furious about someone stealing Felix.

[Dave Anthony]

It's crazy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's like.

[Dave Anthony]

It's crazy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's awesome. America's awesome.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. The new distributor, Educational Pictures, released two cartoons a month for two and a half years. So when Walt Disney finds out that Otto is actually Felix's creator, he tries to hire Otto away, but he wants Otto to move to California. And Otto's like a New Yorker. Like one of those weird New Yorkers that can't leave the city.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So he turns Disney down. Although let's be honest, it's not like Disney treated people well either, so.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, but he didn't know that it would be. It's strange. It's just strange to be under the conditions he's under and he's just to be like, yeah, but California doesn't smell like egg piss.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1928. Two talkies. So. Right. So now we have films with sound Came out, by the way.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That feels like a slur now.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

It changes the industry. So the Jazz Singer and a cartoon called Steamboat Will starring Mickey Mouse.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

Steamboat Willie is a stand up of Buster Keaton's film Steamboat Bill. It was the third Mickey Mouse short and the first cartoon was synchronized sound and music. So, you know, good visual gags happened in perfect sync with the rhythm of the music. It's a massive hit. People go fucking bananas. They can't believe what they say.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's so funny. So funny. I mean, I. Obviously we're spoiled. Obviously we've fucking ruined everything by the amount that is thrown at us, entertainment wise. But the idea of grown adults going to watch Steamboat Willie and be like, that's it. We're peeking. When it's just like a mouse on a boat, like, I don't know. Oh boy. Like grown men Were like, this is the height of cinema.

[Dave Anthony]

So, like. Like, Pat Walt is a very, very good promoter. And Mickey became famous worldwide as quickly as Felix has had. Now everybody wants cartoons with sound, and the animation industry, which has been in a kind of a slump, is revived. So the popularity. Popularity of sound cartoons. Not good for Felix, who's a silent film character.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Pat staff had been pushing having Felix films have sound and color for years, but Pat was refusing to do it. Quote, you don't change when you're making money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep. Spoken like a true thief.

[Dave Anthony]

As Mickey eclipsed Felix in popularity, educational pictures dropped Pat Sullivan studios. And in 1930, two years after Steamboat Willie, Pat gave in and said, okay, let's convert Felix into a sound cartoon.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

All right. I get it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right.

[Dave Anthony]

This sound shit ain't going away. It's not a fan.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like I said, you definitely had the people who were like, all right. You know, it's like how Howard Stern views podcasts. Like, enough already. It's a flash in the pan. It's not gonna hold.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is what him with podcasts? It's insane.

[Dave Anthony]

Is that how he is? That's hilarious.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Such a curmudgeon.

[Dave Anthony]

It's like. Like it's any different. It's just people doing their own.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's any different. And, like, it. This idea of, you know, you need to go live in 18 different markets to fail.

[Dave Anthony]

It's like, no, no.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. Okay, cool.

[Dave Anthony]

What?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, we've all failed a ton. And it's like, whatever.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so he gives in. They make a sound cartoon. It doesn't go well. Pat had fired most of the staff and replaced them with cheaper freelancers. So Felix was voiced by him, Harry Edison, who was a sound engineer and whose voice was whiny and annoying. So.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, all right. I fixed a candy cat. Good. All right, let's do one more. This time, when you discover that the manhole cover is taken off of the sewer, I want you to be pretty upset about it and then quickly jump in there. So let's hear the sound of you, how you feel the jump. We'll add the sound at the sound after we go. And rolling. Go. Okay, great. The levels are a little low on our end, so we're trying to really. We would really like to, like, let's say someone was listening to this in a car or something right now. Oh, okay. We want them to turn it down when they do it. Okay. So. And also, let's hear you take the sewer cap off. Maybe. It's heavy. They're heavy. Okay. Oh, okay. There we go. All right. Here we go. Good. Got that? Okay, great. That's good. Now we're gonna do. Now we've got some more. Are you okay? I think I gotta take a week off. No, no, no, no, no. Nope, not in this business.

[Dave Anthony]

My throat is filling up with blood.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's hear. Why don't we get one of those. Why don't you show us how that feels in your. Good, good, good. All right, great. Let's take one. I'm at. What? Yep. All right. I'm a kid. Just talking to the guys in here. We're a little tired. We're gonna take a breather. You stay in there and scream for a little while. We're gonna go out for a minute. Get some.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Some. What do you call it? What's the sandwich?

[Dave Anthony]

I'm the sound engineer.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's the sandwich. Hold on. What's. Hold on. We're trying to figure what's the sandwich that you dip in the A Jus. What's that one called, World?

[Dave Anthony]

A Russian milf.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. What's.

[Dave Anthony]

Wow.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nope. All right. That's not a good look. And I've committed the ultimate sin.

[Dave Anthony]

So it's not the same time period. So it doesn't mean that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What? What are you talking about? What is a milk to you or whatever? It's a what?

[Dave Anthony]

It's a little Harry rodent.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A milf. Yeah. All right, pal.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm making a cartoon about it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

I need emotional help.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, well, look, stop. Just give us a minute. We're figuring out what it's called. It's. The hell is the same. Would you dip into. It's the Oz. Anyway. All right, we're gonna take it to a scabbage. What? Goodbye.

[Dave Anthony]

So he used this guy with a terrible voice. The films were made cheaply and in a rush, so the picture and sound didn't line up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, there's nothing better than not making the pivot and then rushing it and fucking it up.

[Dave Anthony]

He blockbustered so good. Copley Pictures, Felix's new distributor, stopped making new Felix shorts in 1931. Again, Walt Disney tries to hire Auto away, and Otto turns him down. He keeps drawing the Felix cartoon strip for newspapers and Pat taking most of the profits. Pat's ex employee, Hal Walker. Quote, pat was an alcoholic and sex maniac who used Marjorie for purposes of influencing other men.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. So that's way darker.

[Dave Anthony]

But I don't think. I don't think that he's pimping her out. I think that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, but he's, like, flirting and, like.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, like, he probably sex.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A sex maniac.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey, go. Well, I mean, we're all sex maniacs when we get in the situation.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I don't agree. Which led to his next piece called Sex Maniacs.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, sex maniac's not a great description.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is a dog who loves to.

[Dave Anthony]

Or you could, you know, own it. Yeah, I'm a sex maniac. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, take it as a compliment. Thank you.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Dave Anthony]

Thank you very much.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I cannot from just thinking I'm a sex maniac.

[Dave Anthony]

So. Yeah, so he's probably using her to flirt or whatever, but who knows? Maybe. Maybe it's more.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm sure she was doing well, too.

[Dave Anthony]

He's not a good guy. Well, he's not a good guy. So, you know, not a good guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But the loyalty to this guy is pretty bizarre.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. So Pat uses Felix money to finance madam and open a brothel.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, well, what would you do now? Definitely not go back into the animated world, where I've had a tremendous amount of success, even if it's on the back of others. I obviously would start a Hooters ripoff.

[Dave Anthony]

This is such a crazy pivot. But again, he's. He's a sex maniac. So there you go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right. It.

[Dave Anthony]

He's like, finally, I have enough money to open a place where I can just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, can you imagine when the. The sex maniac boss walks into a brothel that he owns?

[Dave Anthony]

Terrible.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And of course, he walk in, I'd be itching my crotch like, oh, oh, hey, Pat.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, well, he did. He did contract syphilis there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, man. Finally, a contract he honored.

[Dave Anthony]

And he's married Girth.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Time for noses to drop.

[Dave Anthony]

So he gave syphilis to Marjorie.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, listen.

[Dave Anthony]

And her body was covered in syphilis scars and went out in public. She wrapped herself in scarves to hide.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She had scar scars. She had scar. Scarves.

[Dave Anthony]

Scar. Garves.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, you're just talking about Peter.

[Dave Anthony]

She was rumored to be sleeping with their chauffeur. And one day, Pat confronts them in their luxury apartment. 7th floor, the forest Hotel in New York. And after an argument, this chauffeur storms out. And a minute later, Marjorie fell out the window and hit the ground and died.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm sorry, define fell.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, she. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

In my defense, your honor, I've been working in animation so intimately, I thought she'd bounce back up. So he shoved her out of a fucking window after the chauffeur left.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, that's how it sounds. If it's suicide or murder or an accident, it's never made clear. A lot of people in Pat's life had their suspicions because he's a drunk abusing maniac. And her obituary in the Time said Margie wanted to go shopping and lean too far out the window while trying to attract the attention of the chauffeur.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She didn't know. She didn't know what she was doing that day. God, I miss her. I do miss it so hard.

[Dave Anthony]

I kept telling her, you don't know how to yell out windows.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She was told to grab stuff from the stores with her hands. But we were on the seventh floor. Sweet Marge didn't understand how it worked. And nobody grieves her more than I or loving husband who gave her syphilis and while we were together, committed the ultimate sin and raped a young girl, basically. But that day, none of that mattered. Even though we had an argument with the chauffeur, the very chauffeur she was trying to communicate with, she just. She just fell. She fell. And as I tried to push her back up to the balcony, I tried to shove her back up and she just. It was too late.

[Dave Anthony]

It sounds. I mean, it sounds suspicious, I know. When you put it that way, I know. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I tried to shove her back up to the seventh floor as best I could, actually. And she was fight. She was fighting. Titan did not fall too. And I tried to shiver. He was just. Oh, we've been thinking back on it.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't think you know how a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Second I saw her splat, I just. I looked up and I said, yes, that's what I worried.

[Dave Anthony]

What?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, yeah, I was just in a lost head space, man. I didn't know what I was doing at that time. And I saw her pass away and I said, and now I can go do what I want with my. My penis.

[Dave Anthony]

Now can you do this in an Australian slash Irish accent?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I was like, basically like, it's just a bit different. But I thought I could maybe find a way to go put it inside of a glory hole.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, that was. That was.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It was a little better. It a tough one.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so after Marjorie's death path, Pat. Pat is depressed. He falls into depression and he drinks.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The idea of probably murdering and then being like, I'm so low.

[Dave Anthony]

Probably absolutely murdered her. Absolutely. I mean, I guess she could have run and jump, but come on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, she was killed.

[Dave Anthony]

Come on. So he is very up from years of alcoholism and syphilis and in the last year of his life. He couldn't recognize Auto. Oh, I mean, that is.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, to be fair, he didn't really recognize him before that.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Pat Sullivan died of pneumonia.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love, I love the like, simple, like, it's just like Felix. Oh yeah, I know him well. Did you know that the studio was a little hijinksy?

[Dave Anthony]

So he dies of pneumonia and alcohol related damage in the hospital in 1933. He was 47 years old.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

His company was in shambles. He hadn't kept records for years. Pat Sullivan Studios closed down. He had no children, so the rights to Felix go to his nephew. Now Otto keeps writing and drawing the daily and Sunday Felix cartoon strips. He'd get freelance animation work. And in 1971, Pat's nephew dies. And that's when animation historians learned that Otto was the creative force, if not the sole creative force, the main behind Felix the cat. And 50 years after Felix debuted, Otto was publicly recognized as his creator for the first time. When Otto. 1976, when Otto was 83, the Whitney Whitney Museum showed a retrospective of his work. And the next year, animation historian John Kennemaker released a TV documentary, Otto Messmer and Felix the Cat, in which Otto talked on camera about Felix and Pat Sullivan Studios for the first time. And in 1983, Otto Messmer died of a heart attack in New Jersey at the age of 91. He was survived by his first and only wife, his children and grandchildren.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

So at least he got the recognition before he died, which isn't common in this sort of situation. No, he should have been wildly rich. He should have been way more, you know, successful and beloved almost, I would say a Walt Disney type person. And he didn't get any of that because. Drunken abusive guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I also think a lot, at least in this business, there is this. There are people who are geniuses and they don't have the ability to also be. They're so fixated on the creative that they're unable to put the pieces together to be the pushy creative voice, you know, or whatever. And you know, it's like I. I mean, I'm sure we both in many circumstances have found the person who is willing to take all the credit and is not skilled at the work. That is a real. And this obviously to the nth degree, but that is a real like trope. And I know we both personally have dealt with that before.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But at least he did get recognized. But also, you know, we're just run by psychopaths. And like we were saying before, it's like, you know, money, money, capitalism, exponential growth. Winning it. Winning the money game is truly the cultural cancer of, you know, you think of what we could have and how money completely all of that up.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, it's a system in which once a guy's rich, everyone goes, you're awesome. Nobody is ever like, so how'd you do that exactly?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. And nobody's ever like, dude, that's like, that's. You're clinically insane for wanting to have a trillion dollars.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, you're insane. You're an insane.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like, think of what. Think of what the Internet could have done. And instead we're like, we got to get rid of it right now.

[Dave Anthony]

We're like, oh, it's so. It's going to destroy the world.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, we're fully just like, oh, yeah, like, AI. Like, let's go. And I was. I was talking to my brother last night. We were sort of talking about all that stuff, and it was just like, like, you know, okay, go, you know, go run your little project for every.

[Dave Anthony]

Just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

If you just gave everyone a UBI and we just had that and that was just kind of built in, then it's like, all right, at least then we're not thinking like, oh, yeah, nobody's going to have anything. And you're trying to do that as soon as possible, right?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You get to have anyway$podcast.com doll heads. Bring your doll heads. Get them on stage. We love.

[Dave Anthony]

So this was written or the research and written by Sarah Sabsi and Sarah. I always. Sarah, apologies. And the sources are Wild Minds by Reed Mittenbuehler, Felix by John Kennemaker and the Birth of an Industry by Nicholas Simond and the New York Times.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Boy.

[Dave Anthony]

Boy, oh, boy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, we are. Thought it was just a cute little cat. I thought it was gonna be Tom and Jerry. That's where I thought we were headed.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, yeah. Now that story is much worse.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, that one's actually dark.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know. I don't actually know. But you know what's funny is my. That was my favorite cartoon growing up. Tom and Jerry. Yeah, it was awesome. Insanely violent.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, God.

[Dave Anthony]

Like, off the charts violence.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like, the older I get, the older I get, the more I'm like, you know, I'm like Wiley Coyote. Really? Fuck the Roadrunner.

[Dave Anthony]

There's this whole thing where everyone's like, well, all these older people had lead and that's why they're all like this. And while, yes, I think that's a big part of it, but I also think, like, the media, the culture we absorb was so fucking seeped in Violence.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Go watch the Three Stooges. Watch the Three Stooges.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Like, we were just comfortable with it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, super comfortable. Yeah. Still is funny.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. All right, well, thank you for listening and you're welcome.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Remember, no problem.

[Dave Anthony]

Remember, Gareth is a problem.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What?

[Dave Anthony]

That's our new. That's our new clothes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Where's your deal? No, not. I'm fantastic. Hey, what's up there? Gear Force and doll heads, this is Gareth. Listen, I'm gonna be on the road doing some stand up comedy. And boy, howdy, would I love for you to come see me. Go to garethreynolds.com for tickets and information. I just added shows. Batavia or Batavia, Illinois, May 22, May 23, May 24. Then I will be in Nashville on August 5. I will be in Lexington, Kentucky. August. August 6, Chattanooga. August 8, August 9. Then I will be in Fort Collins at the Comedy Fort. August 22, August 23. Then to Sweet Bozeman, Montana. September 5, September 6. Then I'll be in Kansas City at the Comedy Club of Kansas. September 26, September 27, October 4. Chicago. A couple shows there, then Sunnyvale. November 6, November 7, November 8. Go to GarethReynolds.com for tickets and information. You are my Gear force. You are doll heads. I love you, Gear thrills. Com.