688 - Pinball - live

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds

Episode: 688 - *Pinball - Live
Release Date: June 17, 2025
Hosts: Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds
Producer: All Things Comedy

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Introduction to Pinball History

In this episode, Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds delve into the intriguing and tumultuous history of pinball in the United States, focusing particularly on its evolution, cultural impact, and the dark underbelly of corruption and crime that once surrounded the game.

---

Early Development and Invention

The conversation begins with the inception of modern pinball. Dave Anthony introduces Montague Redgrave Grave, a British inventor who immigrated to Cincinnati in 1869 and began manufacturing Bagatelle tables—a precursor to pinball machines.

Dave Anthony (03:02): "This was the birth of modern pinball."

Gareth Reynolds humorously corrects the pronunciation, emphasizing the game's complex history.

---

Transition to Coin-Operated Machines

In the 1930s, Bagatelle evolved into more sophisticated coin-operated machines, also known as marble games or pin games. These machines featured innovations like spring launchers and metal pins, which laid the groundwork for the pinball machines we recognize today.

Gareth Reynolds (04:37): "It's like Plinko, where there's no skill involved."

---

Legal Challenges and Moral Panic

The electrification of pinball in 1933 coincided with rising concerns about its influence, particularly among children. Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia of New York City spearheaded efforts to ban pinball, associating it with juvenile delinquency and moral decay.

Dave Anthony (09:13): "Mayor LaGuardia of New York City thought pinball led to crime and juvenile delinquency."

Seattle became a focal point in the debate as pinball's popularity soared, leading to stringent regulations and licensing fees imposed by local authorities.

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Corruption and the Rise of the Pinball Mob in Seattle

As pinball machines became lucrative, they attracted unlawful interests. The Shivers Automated Coin Company in Seattle capitalized on the booming market, selling used pinball machines at minimal prices. However, the industry's rapid growth led to rampant corruption, with connections between pinball operators and the local Teamster union.

Dave Anthony (27:31): "He is close with the local Teamster union leader."

The formation of the Amusement Association of Seattle (AAS) further entrenched this corruption, creating monopolistic control over pinball machines in bars and establishing price-fixing agreements.

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Violent Retaliation and Bombings

Tensions within the pinball industry culminated in violent acts, including bombings of rival pinball and jukebox businesses. The night of October 11, 1957, marked a significant escalation when Century Distributing, a pinball and jukebox business, was bombed in Queen Anne.

Dave Anthony (32:21): "A month later, Frank was charged with threat of bodily harm."

These acts of violence were part of a broader strategy to eliminate competition and maintain AAS's dominance in the market.

---

Political Manipulation and Investigations

The scandal reached political heights as Mayor Gordon Clinton attempted to crack down on pinball-related corruption. However, his efforts were met with fierce resistance from entrenched interests, including powerful prosecutors like Charles Oliver Carroll, who were implicated in bribery and collusion with pinball magnates.

Dave Anthony (84:18): "Prosecutor Carroll was a political boss and had dirt on everyone, which he used to get what he wanted."

Despite attempts to dismantle the corrupt network, many cases fell apart due to compromised witnesses and systemic corruption within law enforcement agencies.

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Decline of the Pinball Mob and Legacy

By the early 1970s, significant arrests and indictments began to dismantle the power of the pinball mob in Seattle. High-profile figures like Fred Galino and John Michael were convicted for their roles in corruption and protective rackets.

Dave Anthony (63:12): "They were making protection money."

However, the efforts to eradicate corruption were only partially successful, with many individuals evading long-term consequences. The legacy of this era left a lasting impact on Seattle's pinball scene, ultimately leading to more regulated and lawful operations in the years that followed.

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Conclusion: Reflection on Capitalism and Corruption

In their closing remarks, Dave and Gareth reflect on the systemic issues that allowed such corruption to flourish. They critique the capitalist structures that enable money and power to perpetuate injustice, using the pinball mob as a historical example of these enduring problems.

Gareth Reynolds (93:58): "Everything as currently constructed continues to be completely ineffective and against societal."

The episode wraps up with a somber acknowledgment of how the pinball industry's history serves as a microcosm for broader societal and economic challenges.

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Notable Quotes

• Dave Anthony (03:02): "This was the birth of modern pinball."
• Dave Anthony (09:13): "Mayor LaGuardia of New York City thought pinball led to crime and juvenile delinquency."
• Gareth Reynolds (04:37): "It's like Plinko, where there's no skill involved."
• Gareth Reynolds (93:58): "Everything as currently constructed continues to be completely ineffective and against societal."

---

Key Takeaways

• Evolution of Pinball: From Bagatelle tables to modern pinball machines, pinball has undergone significant technological and cultural transformations.

• Moral Panic and Legislation: Societal fears about pinball's influence led to stringent regulations and outright bans in various cities, notably spearheaded by influential figures like Mayor LaGuardia.

• Corruption and Crime: The lucrative nature of pinball operations attracted criminal elements, leading to monopolistic control, bribery, and violent retaliation within the industry.

• Political Entrenchment: Efforts to combat corruption were hampered by collusion between law enforcement officials and pinball magnates, highlighting systemic issues within political and legal institutions.

• Legacy and Reflection: The history of pinball serves as a lens to examine broader issues of capitalism, corruption, and the challenges of enforcing justice within flawed systems.

---

This episode provides a comprehensive look into the complex history of pinball, blending historical facts with the trademark humor and banter of Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds. It highlights how a seemingly simple amusement device became intertwined with significant social, political, and criminal narratives in mid-20th century America.

Transcript

[Dave Anthony]

The Dollop is going on tour in October 2025. We're starting on October 20th in Chicago, Illinois. On the 21st, we go to Cleveland, Ohio. On the 22nd, we go to Columbus, Ohio. On the 23rd, we go to Indianapolis. On the 26th, we go to Madison, Wisconsin. On the 27th, we go to Milwaukee. On the 28th, we go to Minneapolis. On the 29th, we go to Kansas City. And on the 30th, we go to Denver. These tickets will go on sale on June 20th. Local presale dates will be June 18th, and for Patreon, it will be Tuesday the 17th. And you can go to dolloppodcast.com for your ticket links. You're listening to the Dollop. This is an American history podcast where each week I dance. Gabe Anthony read a story from American history to another. Liar.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sir, I dispute the lead up. My name is Gareth Reynolds and I have no idea what the topic is going to be about. So.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, you can dispute it, but.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I do dispute it.

[Dave Anthony]

Label's there and AI picked it up. So when you now ask, who's Gareth Reynolds, he's gonna be a noted liar.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Quit saying that. Glory hole addict. Dave Anthony, man obsessed with glory holes. Dave Anthony, Glory hole guy. Dave Anthony likes to be on other stuff side of the project. Dave Anthony maybe prefers the one where he's down a little bit lower. Dave Anthony.

[Dave Anthony]

Pedophile liar.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You fucking.

[Dave Anthony]

1869, British inventor Montague Redgrave Grave immigrated to Cincinnati and started making Bagatelle tables.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Bingo. What?

[Dave Anthony]

It's a table game.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Bagatelle is a. Is a game.

[Dave Anthony]

Table game.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Table game.

[Dave Anthony]

It is a slender table with Q sticks.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

Players shot ivory balls up an inclined play field through pins into holes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sounds like your favorite activity. Glory hole, baby.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not cool.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, you love that ivory bucket.

[Dave Anthony]

There were many variations. Bagatelle had been in the US for a while, but in 1871, Redgrave got a patent for his improvements in Bagatelle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

And he shrank it so it fit on a bar or a counter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Huh.

[Dave Anthony]

The balls became marbles. The wickets were small metal pins. He also used a spring launcher and bells.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

This was the birth of modern pinball.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Bagatelle. Definitely someone will listen to this and be like, well, it's Bajitale.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, absolutely. Oh, my God. How do you not know it's bajitali?

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's Bajitali.

[Dave Anthony]

Don't give a Dave. This eventually led to a more modern version in the 1930s and manufacturers were making coin operated machines called marble games or Pin games.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. Wow. Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

What a change.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Real. Yeah. Woo.

[Dave Anthony]

Fun.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Awesome.

[Dave Anthony]

And then. And then the table is put under glass and a 1931 baffle ball became the first coin operated hit.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Whoa. Baffle ball.

[Dave Anthony]

Baffle ball is in. Why would you play that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

And, and. But it's the same idea of as pimple. Where.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Or is it? Where are the little flippers? They're flippers.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, they got the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, you got that. You got the shooter. There's no flippers.

[Dave Anthony]

No flippers.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So you just shoot it and then you're like, all right.

[Dave Anthony]

It's literally just. Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So it was Plinko.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. There's no, there's no skill. It just. You hit it once and go. God, I hope this works.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Boy, when the guy put flippers on people, like, that's fucking awesome. That's what. That really sucks. Knowing what we know now at the time, people are like, whoa.

[Dave Anthony]

But again, these are people who would gather to watch a man walk into town backwards.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Excuse me. We're both on record that if that happened today, we would go watch it.

[Dave Anthony]

That's true.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's the only one. It was like when people were like, oh my God, look. Yeah, there's a guy with like a big hand. That's like the thing where you're like, buddy, go inside. This isn't worth it.

[Dave Anthony]

I would go, how big is the hand?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Not that very big. Like a Pretty big. But you're like, I don't know.

[Dave Anthony]

But would it look like a. Like a glove that was stuffed or.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

Bigger than that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nope. No, not bigger than that.

[Dave Anthony]

So just like a hand.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. What I'm going for in this pitch is something that you is not worth going to see. So if we're talking about a guy who's born with a catcher's mitt, I'm going, I'm telling you, this is a guy where you're like, ah, it looks like he got stung by bees. He'll be fine.

[Dave Anthony]

I would go see a guy that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Got stung by bees after he got stung by bees.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

I was all puffy and weird.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm saying he isn't all puffy and weird. Go ahead. Just.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1933, pinball became electrified. Most pinball manufacturers were in Chicago, where crime was also manufactured.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is there a tie into that?

[Dave Anthony]

Yep. Okay, so there's no flippers. It's just a game of chance. You hit the ball and you hope it goes into a hole and then you get money or a prize.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That sounds like your favorite job. You must be Love researching this one. The whole time I got to beat up again. I'm just reading. But the thing is, AI Dave likes glory holes. Both sides. In or out? He's in or out.

[Dave Anthony]

The problem this is, is that you're a known pedophile. Liar.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No. Now stop doing the P1.

[Dave Anthony]

You're a pedophile.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Stop doing the P1. That one could actually be very bad. I do not want that. Lab.

[Dave Anthony]

History.com's players gambled on games, and operators handed out prizes from free games, from gum, all the way up to jewelry and chinaware.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. Jesus. Here's a plate. Way to go, lady. Here's some forks. Here you go. Here's a nice mug.

[Dave Anthony]

It's kind of like when you go to the shitty fair that travels around and you throw the ping pong ball in the cup and then you get a goldfish mirror. Budweiser mirror?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, Ping pong ball was always the goldfish.

[Dave Anthony]

You put it in, you drop it into the thing with the goldfish. You didn't win the goldfish, did you?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, you won the goldfish in the bowl. It was goldfish genocide, to be quite honest with you. It was horrendous.

[Dave Anthony]

So some people became very concerned. Cops and community groups took note that the machines were made in crime city.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Mm.

[Dave Anthony]

And churches said pinball corrupted the morals of children.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Fucking come on. Let him. Let him live. Unfortunately, some of the boys are out there playing pinball.

[Dave Anthony]

Next it'll be fucking.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sister.

[Dave Anthony]

That's your thing. So.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You'Re the holy one. Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

Another lie. It encouraged them to steal coins and skip school.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Cool. Yeah. Yeah, pinball did. So pinball was lsd?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. They said kids went hungry because they spent their money on pinball.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, so what was the deal back then? Kids had to pay for all their food out of their own pocket.

[Dave Anthony]

Would they? Your parents would give you money to take to school to buy food, and then you spend it on pinball?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, they weren't going hungry. They were skipping lunch.

[Dave Anthony]

They were dying.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, they weren't. No, they weren't. They weren't.

[Dave Anthony]

There would be a trail of bodies on the way to school, and behind.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That leads all the way up to that pinball machine. We didn't realize we had to feed him at home, too, Officer. We thought that's what school was for.

[Dave Anthony]

Mayor LaGuardia of New York City thought pinball led to crime and juvenile delinquency. And he said the industry took in millions a year from the, quote, pockets of school children in the form of nickels and dimes. Giving them as lunch money. And so he cracked down on pinball. So pinball was outlawed in many cities and states. Okay, you say that like that's normal. Like pinball just got outlawed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I'm looking at this.

[Dave Anthony]

Pinball machines were still legal in Washington state.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dave pointed. AI. Dave pointed when he said that. Where is AI? Above us. Where does it live? AI, it's me, Garfi.

[Dave Anthony]

It lives. It lives when I edit and upload the episode. So whatever you say will be gone. And what I say?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No. They all have phones. You foolish man. There's one thing you didn't count on. That we've invited 700 of our closest friends. And that guy. 699 in that guy.

[Dave Anthony]

But cities in Washington were asking that something be done about the menace of pinball. Pinball was very popular in Seattle. And the city council realized it could bring in revenue. And so they put a decent size licensing fee on each pinball machine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

But local officials still found themselves in a tough spot, with many wanting them banned. It's hard. It's hard to know whose side to be on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

For sure. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Because I love children. But also, AI.

[Gareth Reynolds]

If you're up there.

[Dave Anthony]

So they didn't know. Was it skill or was it chance? If it was a game of chance, then it should definitely be illegal. And the ban was considered near schools.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

In the city of Kelso. Kelso. Really? Is that exciting? I believe the people are saying no. Ray Ballowy was arrested for using slugs to pay instead of coins. And he was sentenced to a week in jail.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sorry, before we get to his jail sentence. What do you mean?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, you with a slug.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What do you say? Slug.

[Dave Anthony]

Do you know what a slug is?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're talking like a bullet, something.

[Dave Anthony]

So it's shaped like a coin.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

But it's not a coin. So you put in a piece of metal that's round and it tricks the machine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Machine trickers.

[Dave Anthony]

Did you never do that back in the day with like a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But I'm not from the 40s. No, I didn't use slugs. What are you talking about? Come on. You can wash your laundry for free.

[Dave Anthony]

Just saying.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's how I slug.

[Dave Anthony]

That's how I played. That's how I played some joust back in the day.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Joust?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh. Only the best video game ever. Whatever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Joust?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And what? It's just you and another guy on a horse going at each other. What was it?

[Dave Anthony]

Was joust a horse?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What did you.

[Dave Anthony]

The fuck is this asshole? We're flying around on birds, you asshole.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You played bird joust?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, a lot of us played bird joust.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, no, they've all signaled themselves out this evening. Sex is not on the table. Joust. So you'd fly at a bird in joust.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, there's a lady in here who enjoyed joust.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I want you to play joust in bed.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You ever get laid for playing jazz?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. All right. Yeah. Really?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, when I was nine. Sure.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's where it comes from.

[Dave Anthony]

So when Ray, by the way, was sentenced to a week in jail, he said, quote, just a year in jail, a week, okay? He said, judge, the only way you can beat those machines is with the slugs.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, we know. And that's not okay. That's why you're going to jail.

[Dave Anthony]

So it's also the Depression. So thieves are breaking into pinball machines or just stealing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This thing's just full of slugs. How much did a slug cost?

[Dave Anthony]

A slug's nothing. It's just a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Did it come back out?

[Dave Anthony]

Sometimes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sometimes it didn't. Yeah, so back then, they're paying.

[Dave Anthony]

I think you could also put it on a string and pull it back out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, you had a sluggy string?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, go ahead.

[Dave Anthony]

Sometimes they just steal the pinball machine altogether.

[Gareth Reynolds]

See, that's the move. Like this man here, this criminal stealing a pinball machine.

[Dave Anthony]

Just two guys running down the street holding a pinball machine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hurry up.

[Dave Anthony]

In Seattle, the Shivers Automated Coin Company, which was a pinball machine maker, opened. So they saw they sold used pinball machines starting at $2.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ. What year is this? The 1930?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, the mid-30s.

[Gareth Reynolds]

$2.

[Dave Anthony]

The owner campaigned against criminalization of pinball. But in 1937, Governor Clarence Martin signed legislation banning pinball machines except when it was about skill.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So, okay, and what are you winning again? You're winning. What?

[Dave Anthony]

There's tons of stuff you can win.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, so if you. Based on skill. That is still so crazy, but okay. Like in a world of slot machines, you ever go to the casino and try to use your slugs on a slot machine?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You have?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I still use my slugs everywhere.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Shut up.

[Dave Anthony]

I got a pocket of slugs.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, you don't.

[Dave Anthony]

I haven't paid for anything in nine years.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dave getting arrested on tour, he's the biggest slugger in the Pacific Northwest.

[Dave Anthony]

So that was just about selling more licenses for the machines. Okay, so legal pinball operators have to pay a state tax on each machine, but it. It never explained how to figure out the skill versus luck part.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So so it was purely just to make money?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

For the state?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, yeah, it's like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, because they're like. Because some guy would come in and be like, nah, that was more skill than chance.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep. All right, bring on the next one.

[Dave Anthony]

Different localities interpreted the law their own way. Mostly it was tolerated because pinball brought in tax revenue.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

But the 1940s, cities and counties and the state were all taxing pinball because it was so fucking popular.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Remember women? Wasn't that hilarious? Remember when we had wives and lives? That was fun, huh? Not anymore. Now we're just shoulder to shoulder playing pinball, not a lady inside. And that's how we like it.

[Dave Anthony]

So half of the state pinball tax revenue came from King County. So owners looked at ways to cheat on reported earnings. And one way was to drill a hole and then put a device that stopped the machine from recording payment. So they'd put something in there that would stop the coin counting.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Coin counter. Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Owners also skimmed off profit using a key that let them operate the game without a coin. This was called milking.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So they would. Cool name, first of all, and then they would. So they would probably just take it off the books, right?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they'd take it off the books.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They'd unlock it and then be like, there you go. There's your game. And he'd be like, oh, what about the coin? He'd be like, give me the coin. Don't worry about it. I have to do this for every time someone wants to play a game here. This is starting to feel a little pathetic. I know, right? But just keep going.

[Dave Anthony]

Again, this is about pinball, right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No kidding, huh?

[Dave Anthony]

In 1942, William Foreman in Armador Army SEIS co. Owned Bremerton Amusement Company, which is in the islands across from the city here. All right, don't get too excited. It's not that great. I've been there. So they set up in Bremerton to take advantage of all the sailors and shipyard workers there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't wait to get off this ship and do what we all want to do. Get crotch deep in some pinball. Rub right up against it. Yeah. And if the manager wants to give it a good milking, don't mind if he does. Yeah. Free sex. Free sex. Move it. I'm pinballing.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, God. This is better than fucking.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Oh, that's good. You don't get that? I don't see. Fuck. I'm tired. Well, I gotta get up pretty early in the morning. I should probably go Good to play with you. We ship off early. No, we don't. Quiet. I'm trying to leave.

[Dave Anthony]

So these guys made a lot of money. Foreman then started buying Seattle movie theaters and drive inside. But in 1953, both men were indicted for underreporting pinball revenue and sentenced to five years for tax evasion.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ. It's so funny with what goes on today to be, like, insane. These pinball magnates need to be stopped. They raked in over $5 last year illegally.

[Dave Anthony]

Still, Forman would go on to establish the Pacific Theater movie chain.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure. Cool.

[Dave Anthony]

So you gotta start in pinball.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm ranch.

[Dave Anthony]

Now, Seattle has a history of being an open town. So vice is okay as long as it's discreet and in certain areas.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I think that's good to support. I'm doing. I'm good with that.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm fine with that. Keep the fucking in your little neighborhood there. Get the fucking in your hood. Don't let the fucking get out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Welcome to fuck town.

[Dave Anthony]

The Seattle Police Department was long known as corrupt. Well, that's changed. This is a back of the blue podcast, you guys. As you guys know, I saw some guy driving on the highway today, and he had a little sticker in the shape of Idaho, but it was an American flag with a back. The blue thing. I was like, there's so many reasons I want to drive you off the road right now. It's like a whole.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know. You said sometimes you'll see the back of those trucks. You're like, buddy, we get it now for the Constitution. You're like, just. It's a car. Drive it. Nine things I love about the flag. So beautiful. I love the flag. It's so good here.

[Dave Anthony]

So the Seattle Police Department took extortion from vice operators. And extortion was considered a way to control crime because it maintained order amongst vice establishments.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sorry, what?

[Dave Anthony]

That's the argument they made.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait, say it one more time.

[Dave Anthony]

So the cops would take extortion, right? And their excuse was, is that it would keep order amongst. So the vice guys wouldn't all kill each other or cause problems.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. It was the way to keep it peaceful.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is the only way for us to take the money.

[Dave Anthony]

I gotta take a lot of money. I mean, I don't want to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Believe me. It's hell on earth every time I get paid off. Name another way to handle this.

[Dave Anthony]

You can.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. There's not one.

[Dave Anthony]

In the late 1940s, under William Devon, Seattle officially went in with a tolerance policy. So police bribes are out and an official licensing system is in. Okay, so certain gambling, like cops are just like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I want to think about that a little. You're going to miss it.

[Dave Anthony]

So certain gambling, like pinball and card rooms could operate by paying licensing fees. Okay, but then that is.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is the chance skill thing out the window at that point? It is, right?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I think so. So gambling. So the problem is this doesn't jive with state laws who are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are.

[Dave Anthony]

It's illegal. So the idea is the city would have lots of tax revenue and vice joints would police themselves. Also, it would prevent crime. So they're making the same argument both ways.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. Y seems better though.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. So to get a gambling license you had to be fingerprinted and have lived in King county for five years, which prevents out of town rackets from moving in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

But in the mid-50s, a conglomerate of Seattle pinball operators formed an organization.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Amusement association of Seattle. AAS or ass.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good for them.

[Dave Anthony]

This was formed to prevent one person or group from monopolizing all of pinball in Seattle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

And there were rules and agreements that all members had to follow. No kids could play.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's crazy. Okay. It all started with them.

[Dave Anthony]

No machines near schools or churches.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love that one too. The religious can't be trusted.

[Dave Anthony]

Save them from themselves and most importantly, keep it respectable.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, no more trashy bullshit.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't want to see your pinball machines with titties or whatnot.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now hold on a minute. Let's not say that so fast because some of us didn't realize it was an option. Maybe we should see a couple of these with tits first before we start saying no way.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I'm thinking when you win, the titties light up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, because the big problem is none of us have seen our wives or women in a long time. We've been living in here. So at this point, maybe the good idea is we put titties on these things. Something you can hold onto while you play.

[Dave Anthony]

And also, right in the middle, you install what's known as a fleshlight.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, all right, now stop, because I think we probably have a sale now. So don't do the thing where you're going to get too deep into it. Be quiet now. Don't say another word. So far we're doing good. We got tittied machines that we can probably fuck. There's no need to start chanting about what you're going to do. Put your glasses back on right now. Put your glasses back on right now. You're sitting down in a Room. This is a city council meeting. There is no need for to be making faces that we can only assume are your peeking grins. Now, you stop that right now. Put your glasses back on. Now it feels like you have achieved the height of something that we don't want to get into. Put your little book. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Better go back. There you go.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, Gladys is gonna get it tonight. Another night I come home and she's like, have you been playing pinball all night? You damn right I have. Get that dress off Gladys. We're going to town.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jackpot.

[Dave Anthony]

By the way, I'm not married.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, this is just. Yeah. Anyway, so. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

I forgot what we're doing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I was gonna say, at some.

[Dave Anthony]

Point, the meeting got this. I got distracted.

[Gareth Reynolds]

People shouldn't be able to tilt them. That's the thing. I think it went pretty good in there.

[Dave Anthony]

AAS is overseen by Fred Galino.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Ah, Freddy Krueger.

[Dave Anthony]

Always smallpox.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look at that, eh?

[Dave Anthony]

Never not smallpox.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, Fred Galino, all right.

[Dave Anthony]

He is close with the local Teamster union leader. So the Western Conference of teamsters represent about 400,000 members, and the alliance gave the group almost total control over Seattle. Pinball. Okay, so now most taverns have exclusive deals with the AAS to only use their pinball machines.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

And AAS used their monopoly to create price fixing and decide who could operate their pinball machines in jukeboxes at which locations.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But how did AAS start? Didn't it start?

[Dave Anthony]

Just a bunch of guys got together.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. I thought it was, like, to be prevented, this sort of thing, but obviously.

[Dave Anthony]

No, no, it's. No, they're the bat. They're the criminals. They're the. The. It's a criminal organization.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's why it's ass. In.

[Dave Anthony]

1956, the Tacoma City Council declared pinball machines a, quote, public nuisance and voted to ban them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's hilarious that Tacoma was like, uh, no, no. We see a bright future for us. We.

[Dave Anthony]

We do not want to be like Seattle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're Tacoma. We're a little different here. Welcome to Utopia Tacoma. Someday this city will be a comic book store.

[Dave Anthony]

The what?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, we'll have a comic book shop. The downtown is gonna be bars.

[Dave Anthony]

We'll be closer to the airport.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, a little bit. We're Takuma. Yeah. Seattle won't. Nobody will know Seattle.

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They'll be fighting to get their name on our airport.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Taxi. They'll call it.

[Dave Anthony]

George. Sorry. Gordon Clinton ran for mayor of Seattle. So he ran as A reformist, but endorsed allowing pinball to continue. Okay, so AAS just grew stronger. And Teamsters are now intimidating bar owners into carrying their machines. Okay, so they're basically making people have pinball machines, right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're just in the bar. Just like, you should probably go play a little pinball. Are you talking to me? Yeah, get over there. Put your money.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, get over there. Hey, how come I don't hear a jukebox playing right now?

[Gareth Reynolds]

My friend and I are just trying to have a beer and have a conversation.

[Dave Anthony]

So how come I don't hear a jukebox playing right now?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, if you want, you can put some tunes on yourself. I'm catching up with an old friend, so. But I guess it would be probably pretty good to have some music. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe we'll play a little pinball too, while we're at it.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Alrighty.

[Dave Anthony]

I gotta break one of your fingers now. You didn't jukebox fast enough.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

I wanna hear ABBA all night long.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Pretty sure it's the 40s.

[Dave Anthony]

Who gives a shit? I'm a Teamster.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Not sure I'm following. I can't put on something that doesn't exist on a machine that I don't wanna play. Now.

[Dave Anthony]

Teamsters are forever, okay? Their main competition were the Colocurio Bro Cola.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Ah.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey, how you doing? Colic.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Curchio.

[Dave Anthony]

Run by brothers Sam, William and Frank.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's the name? I don't even know. And I'm among them.

[Dave Anthony]

The brothers used force and intimidation to make owners carry their machines.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think you're gonna love pinball. And I think you're gonna have a bunch of them.

[Dave Anthony]

You're gonna like it. So how big's your bar? What's the square footage?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just a thousand square feet.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. You're gonna have 78 pinball machines.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, that's completely impossible. We would be stacking them apart.

[Dave Anthony]

And 42 jukeboxes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's crazy. That's absolutely crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

It is crazy. It's crazy fun.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nobody messes with the Tacola Orchis. Do you understand?

[Dave Anthony]

But it was becoming harder for the brothers as AAS took over. So naturally, tensions grew. And on the night of October 11, 1957, a bomb blew up. Century Distributing, a pinball and jukebox business in the Queen Anne neighborhood. You wanna fuck with my pinball machine?

[Gareth Reynolds]

And this is in King county or whatever?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So they're like King Pinballs. They're kingpins. Balls. King pins.

[Dave Anthony]

Is anybody happy right now?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, there were two or three people who Were like, I like where he's at it. I should have marinated.

[Dave Anthony]

There's 900 people here. Two's not a big number.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, watch it. That joke was sanctioned by the de Coloches. Hey, Mama. Mama de Coloce. Yeah. He said, what are you doing? You did it go and blow up on a jukebox. Mama de Colochea. So Mama, we're visiting with her.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, we are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, not you. You don't have the.

[Dave Anthony]

And mama brought you a jo.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, we got you a bunch of pinballs, the corio celadi style. I got a water bottle.

[Dave Anthony]

Mama water spicing me ball.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Your boys are there to go.

[Dave Anthony]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He said they're a dangerous stereotype. You keep doing that or you're gonna get a cancel in about a 50. That's not how the caller called Job. Your father the color of papa before he die. I got arrested.

[Dave Anthony]

The God. The father of the peanut ball.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's a peanut baller.

[Dave Anthony]

And he's also a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no. You said you're going to kick it out of the house.

[Dave Anthony]

I was a king. Ah. Over spicy people.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Disgusting. Disgusting. The reaction the second time around was a way less.

[Dave Anthony]

They're scared.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What?

[Dave Anthony]

They're scared.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're not scared of you.

[Dave Anthony]

What are you doing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

The great meatball coming.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are you talking about?

[Dave Anthony]

From. Have you seen Spider smashing me bottle three times? Smashing me bottle. Piss.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no. Now that One got a no. 1 psychopath. A shout out. You don't do that. You're in the Coloradic Carrio. You're out of the family Citigan.

[Dave Anthony]

I can't take you seriously.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Was it the color Cher? No.

[Dave Anthony]

It's because you are the pedo liar guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. No, you gotta. You really gotta stop that. That is not good. Okay, you keep it that going and they're gonna call me Pinball because I can't be near.

[Dave Anthony]

Gareth. The Dollop is brought to you by Nutrafol. Nutrafol? It's for hair. It's for making your hair look lovely.

[Gareth Reynolds]

For getting it. Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

I know when we were just on tour, you were getting compliments often.

[Dave Anthony]

I was getting compliments about my hair. Yeah, yeah. I started taking Nutrafol a while back and it took about four months or so before people were like, what's going on with your hair? Like just random people that never should talk about my hair or do talk about my hair were asking me about my hair.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are you saying, what is that? There seems to be some attitude.

[Dave Anthony]

Like my friend Josh was like, did you get plugs? Like what he's like, is that it's like an 80 year old man. Like, I don't need 80 year old men complimenting my hair. But you know, you get the point.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Anyway, the products worked great. And your attitude, they don't make a supplement for your.

[Dave Anthony]

But look, what we're saying is it works. My hairdresser, my wife, you, I mean you, you like to run your hands through my hair and you're saying it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Feels and see reason why we tore in Corvettes now.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. And Nutriful's hair growth supplements are physician formulated using 100 drug free ingredients. And their patented technology provides consistent, reliable results. Nutriflo man is clinically tested to improve hair growth and quality. Plus men also reported no impact to sexual performance. Yeah, I be sexing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's the point of having this? These thick, luscious locks.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

If you're not using it for what it's about.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I'm doing the. I'm set. I suck.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Stop, Stop.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, stop. So look, start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutriful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to nutrafol.com men and enter the promo code the Dollop. Find out why Nutrival is the leading hair growth supplement brand on the [e-mail] men spelled n u t r dash a f o l dot com men promo code the dollop. That's nutrafol.com men promo cod the dollop. Gareth. We are also brought to you by Rocket Money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

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[Dave Anthony]

Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions and monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

Which is what Gareth and I have done.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We've both used it and it saved a lot of money just by pointing out that you have forgotten to cancel things or things you don't need.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Subscriptions you don't need. Like a toothbrush subscription or packers radio.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Station for a playoff game.

[Dave Anthony]

I think there's probably a lot of parents out there that your kid grows up and grows out of a game and you have a subscription to it, and you're like, oh, well, that. That shouldn't still be happening. So there's. Especially with kids, there's tons of stuff you can subscribe to and forget about. So this is very helpful. Rocket Money is very helpful. Also, Rocket Money renegotiated my Internet contract and saved me 300 bucks a year. So Rocket Money does wonderful things and should be your friend. It should be a part of your life. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features. So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter our show. Name the dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds in the survey. So they know that we sent you?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from our show.

[Gareth Reynolds]

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[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. I mean, no, I wouldn't. I don't know if I'd say that, but yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Rocket Money.

[Dave Anthony]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

I did. I went to a place and hit golf balls for ages. I've golfed a little bit over the years. I was genuinely, like, shocked at what they were offering. Tons of options. And honestly, there were multiple times where I was like, I might be good at golf, which is a huge upgrade from where I was before, which is like, you shouldn't have brought me, really an incredible lineup. I was with a guy. Might have been Mike. Nope. Don't try to guess.

[Dave Anthony]

And I think you're going to miss Jamie and because you guys bonded so much.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Not true.

[Dave Anthony]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

It was great.

[Dave Anthony]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

Brian was his name.

[Dave Anthony]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Edgar at the dollop is brought to you by Squarespace. All in one website platform designed to help you stand out, succeed online, get people to notice you, have them come to you. Like it's like turning on a light and the mobs come. That's the same.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't think nobody's happy with what you're saying or doing.

[Dave Anthony]

I think so.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We love Squarespace. Every website we are associated with is Squarespace.

[Dave Anthony]

True.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We are right now utilizing a new element on Squarespace which we've been waiting to utilize for a while. We're very excited to announce it soon. But all through Squarespace. And it's so easy. Luke is doing it.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. That's how easy it is.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know if you could give a more validating statement then Luke is on Squarespace upgrading things.

[Dave Anthony]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

It truly just makes it so easy on you. We've worked with them forever because we just love what they offer and think it's the best.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. They're over at my house right now. Squarespace and I are having brunch.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nope.

[Dave Anthony]

So that'll be good. Yeah. So it's really easy to use. The templates look great. We've been recommending Squarespace forever and we will continue to do so. Head to squarespace.com dolop for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code dollop to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com dolop for your free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code dollop to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So during the bombing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, right, the bombing of games, all.

[Dave Anthony]

Of the pinball machines, jukeboxes and coin operated devices were destroyed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All of them.

[Dave Anthony]

The owner told investigators he didn't. The owner told investigators he couldn't think of anyone who want to harm his business, even though he'd been helping AAS muscle the Caruccios from locations. So a month later, Frank was charged with threat of bodily harm. Now, talent owners said they were threatened with beatings if they didn't carry the brothers machines. And there was a predatory loan sharking operation where money was loaned to a bar in exchange for exclusive pinball and jukebox rights.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So they're really coming at. Yeah, they're like, these are the Best.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey. Okay, here's how it's going to go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Go.

[Dave Anthony]

I'll give you money, then. You carry our machines.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You give me money for your. Okay, great.

[Dave Anthony]

You idiot.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're paying me to take your machine? Yeah. Is that really how this went?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, good work. Cortico Chios.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, welcome to hell.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, go for it.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, guys, I'm playing. Seems weird.

[Dave Anthony]

We loaned out a lot of money. We got no money left.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're broke. And we have no pinball machines.

[Dave Anthony]

So. And then there were match bombs. Match bombs, which they put under rival jukeboxes. So you would put a lit cigarette on an open book of matches.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, we've all done this. Good Lord.

[Dave Anthony]

And when the cigarette burned down, it was would set off the matches and.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Start calling a match bomb is.

[Dave Anthony]

So start a fire underneath and burn the jukebox machine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Match bomb. I mean, that's how we used to like fire.

[Dave Anthony]

It sounds more exciting.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, sorry. Go ahead. Start from there.

[Dave Anthony]

Seattle Police Department put out a public statements quote. We will not allow gangsterism to gain a foothold in this community, nor will we permit intimidation of any citizens by threats or violence.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sorry. Already been going on a lot.

[Dave Anthony]

No, now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now they're like, now we're stopping it. Now that we're not getting paid. We have no choice but to enforce the law. Laws now.

[Dave Anthony]

And the jukeboxes are being burned.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Disgusting.

[Dave Anthony]

In May 1958, the city council voted against renewing pinball licenses for William Coluccio and ordered him to sell his pinball interests. Two months later, Mayor Clinton signed a pinball and jukebox ordinance tightening regulations, including a limit on how many licenses could be issued. On January 23, 1959, another bombing hit the Pioneer Card Company. Pioneer made and sold dice, playing cards and other gambling equipment. A stick of dynamite had been dropped through the mail slot. It's the worst bombing ever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Through the mail slot.

[Dave Anthony]

Is anybody here? Yeah, can you leave?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are you the mailman? Yeah. What do you have mail?

[Dave Anthony]

It's night mail.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I've never heard of night mail before, and I didn't realize it was night until just now.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's like 2am So I don't know why you're there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I'm changing some of the. I'm in. Wait. I don't have to tell you nothing. I've never received nightmail before.

[Dave Anthony]

You should go out the back door.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why?

[Dave Anthony]

Nightmail.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What?

[Dave Anthony]

You fucking idiot. I'm gonna blow the place up with nightmail.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

You're the exact kind of fucking idiot that end up working in a pinball machine place at night.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We do Dyson cards, too. But explain to me why this nightmail's gonna explode.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm putting lit dynamite through the fucking mail slot.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Someone mailed dynamite?

[Dave Anthony]

What the fuck?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why did they do that? Who sent it? What's the return address on the stick?

[Dave Anthony]

How are you this stupid? Look, I brought the dynamite. I'm lighting it and throwing it through. It's gonna blow the place up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Then why did you have to mail it if you.

[Dave Anthony]

Nobody. God damn it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm afraid I'm a little. I'm a little confused, to be honest with you. I'm in my nightgown, too. Might I point out.

[Dave Anthony]

What the fuck are you in your nightgown for?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because I live above this area. I live above the shop. Now that I'm done answering your questions, I want to know who mailed this dynamite to me. And are you even a mail carrier?

[Dave Anthony]

I'm not.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are you?

[Dave Anthony]

I'm a fucking.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Go on.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm a maid guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're a mailed man?

[Dave Anthony]

No, I'm a maid guy. I muscle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're not paying you enough so you don't have to work nights as a mailman, you know. We need someone around the shop. Sir, I'm a woman. What do you mean, sir? I said I'm in my nightgown. Everything was very clearly defied. My husband and I are going through a difficult patch, if you must know.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't want to know.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Roy and I fell in love 20 years ago. But since then, he's neglected me because he was having an affair with his secretary, which he's apologized for repeatedly. But I don't know if I believe that he's turning over a new leaf. Which is why I was down here at night. I was consumed with thoughts of he and her again. Happens to me from time to time. So I thought I'd come down here and rearrange some of the cards.

[Dave Anthony]

So. Hey, Gladys. I'm gonna eat the dynamite.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're not very good at your job, are you? And I don't know why you're looking this direction. We still have a door between us. But I am intrigued by you. You sound like a fella who needs someone. Maybe you could slip some dynamite through my mail. You ever think about something like that?

[Dave Anthony]

No. I'm gay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, foolish lad. That's just invented. The church will take that right out of you.

[Dave Anthony]

So the Pioneer Card Company was blown up. A month later, it was discovered the Cuccio brothers were Using dummy corporations to get around regulations. So the city council revoked the licenses of any coin operated business connected to the brothers. And that included Shivers coin operated company in the OG Pinball company in downtown jukebox business.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

Ken Shivers was already indicted for bribing a Washington State Supreme Court judge. Shivers left the pinball business and became a home contractor.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I can build you some way similar.

[Dave Anthony]

I can build you a fence. Just go ahead and give me some money up front.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Absolutely. This wall's just full of slugs. The hell is this? Enjoy it.

[Dave Anthony]

On the night of February 18, 1960, Fred Galino's car was bombed outside of his home.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ. I can't believe.

[Dave Anthony]

This is over. Pinball.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know. That's all I keep thinking.

[Dave Anthony]

He was asleep when this happened. So it was like a warning. The. This. The noise is described as deafening and heard two miles away.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

So now Mayor Clinton puts out a statement declaring he would try to abolish pinball machines if any bombings turned out to be pinball related.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But he's going to say that they aren't.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, yeah, I mean, obviously it's pinball related, but he's like, look, if the pinball can't. King had his car blown up and it turns out to be pinball related as opposed to like, you know, trying to get your kid on a soccer travel team.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Then we're gonna crack down. Six detectives were assigned, and the FBI launched an investigation. The remains of Galino's car were sent to a special forensics labs in Washington, D.C. nice. The car bombing happened during an ugly mayoral election. Mayor Clinton's opponent, Gordon Newell.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Another Gordon?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Was there one before? Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Two Gordons.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Gordon. Gordon.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Gordon V. Gordon.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A Gordon. It's about to get Gordon.

[Dave Anthony]

They still talk about it in Seattle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The big Gordon. Whoa. Two Gordons enter, both leave but one mayor.

[Dave Anthony]

So Newell denounced the mayor's tough stance on pinball, arguing that strict controls made things worse.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The best. The best where he's like, we need. This is just ridiculous legislation getting in the way.

[Dave Anthony]

You're cracking down in pinball, and it's like watering weeds. Now, a couple weeks later, very early in the morning, Newell's Austin Healey sports car was blown up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't even know what it is, but I'm okay with it.

[Dave Anthony]

Newell said it was because of his comments about the pinball industry, though some thought it was done to politically embarrass Mayor Clinton. So they thought that he had his own car blown up. False flag. Classic False flag.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let me tell you, there's no way that there's a connection. 100%. If you look at that, that, that. That steel does not melt at that level. The parts of that car that melted were done. That is a controlled demolition. That was 100% a controlled demolition done to lower Newel. I'm just sick of this. Pinball's turning the frog.

[Dave Anthony]

So it didn't matter. Clinton won re election, and Newell left politics and started publishing local history books. I get it, buddy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I was just gonna say.

[Dave Anthony]

I was like, you got it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dave is like, newell's cool.

[Dave Anthony]

No, I get like, gordon Cool, the hero, has left the story.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There we are. Yeah, you just keep going on about it. Him and some of his books were pretty good. Newell kept researching and going. He started a radio show with a dude who didn't know shit and got paid the same. Drove Newell crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

So the Michael Distributing Company was the largest pinball distributor in Washington state. And on July 16, 1960, it was bombed. Dynamite was used.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. Oh, my God. Pinball bombing. Feared. I mean, the idea that they're like, we're not sure. There's just some detective who's like, what connects all of these? Every one of them. A pinball facility. What is it? It's gotta be there. Something specific. Give me more yarn, would you?

[Dave Anthony]

What are you gonna do with the yarn?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm gonna start trying to figure out some connection points between all these bombings.

[Dave Anthony]

We don't even have a board to put it on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I know. I just. Well, I ordered the board.

[Dave Anthony]

What are you gonna do with the yarn?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I am going to start figuring out where I'll put it, so I'll lay it out.

[Dave Anthony]

Where are you gonna put the yarn?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Would you just get the goddamn yarn and then I can. I'll show you what I'm gonna do at some.

[Dave Anthony]

First of all, Jones closed because the private equity took over.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Do you mean Joanne's?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, sure, but also Jones. They both closed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jones is a restaurant. Joanne's is the fast fabric.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, but you get yarn at both.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You can't get yarn. All right, look, look. You don't need to go get me yarn. You don't need to go to Joann's.

[Dave Anthony]

I think it's Jones.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It isn't Jones. You already conceded. Look, we have bigger fish. Don't say another goddamn thing about the yarn or where it's coming from. Do you understand me? I'm trying to find, figure out what connects all of these bombings. Something's got to be there.

[Dave Anthony]

You know what you should use.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I swear to God, you should use.

[Dave Anthony]

A board and yarn. Now, there's a problem with that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is it that Joann's is closed and Jones? First of all, Jones is not closed. They're open till 8pm they're a restaurant, and they don't have yarn. Joanne's is closed. But I told you a couple days ago to get me the yarn. And we had this exact same conversation. Put your glasses back on.

[Dave Anthony]

But I'm just. I was just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why do you keep taking your glasses off? Normally, that means an ejaculation is about to happen. Put them on. Actually, wait. Shoot a little. It'll work for the yarn.

[Dave Anthony]

The way your mind works. You should be a detective.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Aren't I?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Remember? Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can't believe I lost you. All right, all right. Well, it's a really weird day at work. Let's go home, hit Joanne's in the morning.

[Dave Anthony]

So the mayor said if the bombings weren't solved within a month that he would seek a permanent pinball ban. And it was later revealed that the owner of the company was closely tied to AAS. Fred Galino offered a $6,000 reward for information leading to the arresting conviction of anyone responsible for the bar bombings. Okay, so the Seattle PD used lie detectors to question pinball operators.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hilarious. Hilarious.

[Dave Anthony]

This is like. This is the dumbest.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They don't work.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean. But it's also just. It's also just like, how far have we come? They used to be like, who's doing the pinball?

[Gareth Reynolds]

We gotta figure it out. Hook them up to what looks like a pinball machine and ask them. Hey, sir, the lines are squiggling a little bit again.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they get pretty excited when they hit the pinball.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right after they play. We should ask them some questions.

[Dave Anthony]

So they came up with no leads from that. And the mayor called for a total ban on pinball, saying Seattle allowed them for over 30 years and the pinball industry only showed it was reckless and dangerous.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can this country ever be normal? Is it like, did we ever have. I'm being genuinely serious. Were there ever two years where we're like, yeah, all right. Nothing crazy happened for two years. You know, like how a restaurant writes. How many days since an injury? Did we ever go 800 days without being completely fucking? I mean, what the actual fuck? Well, the only way to deal with this is to take these machines out to a field and beat them with hammers. There we are. Now, let that be a lesson to the rest of you pinball machines. You understand? We don't want you in this town. We don't want you anytime near here. It's not like they can make more of these. That'll be the end of that chapter.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, there must be.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now we just have to bury them at the bottom of the lake, like Jason. There shan't be another one.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. So on September 20, 1960, the city council rejected the mayor's bans, and the machines were bringing in 5,000 in re In revenue. So they kept it for a couple years. Anyway, public pressure mounted, and in January 1962, the Seattle Police department said they would close establishments with illegal gambling devices per state law. City council quickly passed a policy allowing amusement only pinball machines that didn't offer payouts.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I, I, well, what were the payout there?

[Dave Anthony]

People are getting cash.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're getting cash. Okay. And prizes, by the way, if you could. Well, that would, that they should bring that back.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

If I was in a bar and you could play pinball and be like, I just want $5.

[Dave Anthony]

Imagine if there was like, a pinball area at Harrah's. Like, I would go play pinball.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, that. I would love to picture what that area's demographic is. That blows my mind. Trying to imagine. The people are just like, yeah, but they. It's like when you see someone good at Dance Dance Revolution, you're like, ah, that's like the saddest I've ever seen. That's bananas. Holy shit.

[Dave Anthony]

So the, Did I say this? The Seattle senate voted to allow individual cities. So they punted. The state government was like, you guys just make your choices.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Isn't that weird how the United States is. That's like the formation of. It is just a clump of places that are allowed to have different laws per state and then per city. And then they're just like, we don't actually want to do any of that, that stuff.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, we don't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Unless it gets pretty sticky once you have to make decisions.

[Dave Anthony]

So. Federal grand jury on the pinball business was convened in Seattle, and it led to the indictments of Fred Galino and John Michael. John Michael was one of the guys who owned the places that were bombed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

They were charged with overt acts related to political payoffs for questions, quote, making payments to maintain a situation whereby gambling on pinball machines in Seattle could continue.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

So pinball protection money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. Which, you know, a little while ago would have sounded really weird, but now we're all like, right?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because of the pin mob.

[Dave Anthony]

Both were found guilty, fined 3500 and they got a year of probation, and then those guys both left the pinball racket, which left a pinball void, a vacuum that needed to be filled.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, who's about to walk into that? Who's about to stick themselves in that hole?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, it's not Joan. What is your problem?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, it's just so horrible to call her Joan. Last time you were in a Joann's.

[Dave Anthony]

Honestly? Yeah, like a year ago.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Shocking response.

[Dave Anthony]

There's one. I had to get something for Finn's. Like, he had a class.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What? You have to get picture. You into Joanne's fabrics as my heaven. Excuse me, David and Joanne. Yeah, because by the way, the idea of walking through a Joanne's fabrics being like, I'll find it. Why do you even bother going down one or two aisles? You're like, excuse me, ma' am. I'm a. I'm an idiot. Dude. Where am I? This is crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

Excuse me. Where's the yarn?

[Gareth Reynolds]

And what are you looking for today? Poster board or yarn?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, is there a combination?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Where are the changing rooms? You just. With an arm full of yarn. Excuse me. Can I go try some of this on? Is that possible?

[Dave Anthony]

How much yarn can I bring into the changing room?

[Gareth Reynolds]

How much yarn? Do I need to tell you how many yarns I have before I go into the changing room? Do you want to give me a seven? There you go. I just want to go see how these feelings just leaving undone yarn everywhere. It just wasn't so. I didn't like how it felt.

[Dave Anthony]

Sorry this is so wet, but I was in there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know what happened in there. That was crazy. Thanks, Joan. The fuck just happened?

[Dave Anthony]

The game flourished as, quote, amusement only action. But everyone knew they were still used for gambling. And they were bringing in about 6 million a year. Isn't that insane?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Insane. It's insane in 63.

[Dave Anthony]

So the Caruccio brothers ran pinballs and jukebox.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love how you've given up on the name.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I don't know. Cola Carruccio.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It doesn't have a dub for it.

[Dave Anthony]

What? Cola? No, that was a joke. Like, duh. Like dummy ball. Wait, you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's racist.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, this is a great moment. They're gonna talk about it online.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, Joan, this one will go down in history.

[Dave Anthony]

Shut up, pedal liar. The Calucio brothers. Joan ran pinballs and jukeboxes and expanded to bars and nightclubs and Seattle's earliest strip clubs.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Strip clubs. That's awesome, too.

[Dave Anthony]

Now we're getting going.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Get your tits out of my face. I'm busy. Stop it. Enough. Move.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm trying to make money over here, okay? In 1964, Mayor J.D. dorm Brandman.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What the fuck?

[Dave Anthony]

Dorm. Dorm. His name was Dorm.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hello.

[Dave Anthony]

His nickname was fucking Dorm.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, Dorm, what are you doing thinking about pillows?

[Dave Anthony]

Mayor J.D. dorm Bramman brought back the tolerance policy. Policy that had faded under political pressure. He said vice was easier to police if it was licensed and regulated right. So now AAS had basically died after Glino retired and a new pinball association rose. The Far West Novelty Company, which was a nonprofit headed by Ben Kitchie and the FWN, controlled the master license for over 2,000 pinball machines, pool tables, and bowling games throughout Seattle, mostly in taverns. And players could win money playing, even though it was clearly illegal. And the local press started calling Kichi the pinball king. Okay, so the Seattle Times starts a series on vice and corruption. And reporters watched cops making cash pickups. And they realized it's widespread and that cops were gambling after hours, especially at a place that would later become the comedy underground.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The comedy.

[Dave Anthony]

And they'd go in the comedy Underground. And in the back bar, they'd shoot target, shoot at beer bottles.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The good old days.

[Dave Anthony]

The good old days. Police Chief Frank Ramone said it was just a few cops.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's get a couple where you cry.

[Dave Anthony]

Tell me about Joanna's again. I mean, I'll start tearing up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no.

[Dave Anthony]

I'll start tearing up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Up. Not Joanna again. No, not Jones. It's not Joanna. I don't even know how I'm involved in this, Runner. I wasn't even there for the first part.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, you're clearly the guy who knows all about yarn and whatever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. You think? Get out of your ivory tower.

[Dave Anthony]

I would love it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sir, do you need help? No, I'll find it.

[Dave Anthony]

I would love it if we found out that you were, like, a guy who was just, like, knitting sweaters all the time.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That'd be great. That'd be great.

[Dave Anthony]

What Are. Are there any knitters in here upset about.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, where are the knitters?

[Dave Anthony]

And are you upset about the closing of. It's totally gonna fuck everything up, right? Yeah. Fucking private equity.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Get a gun. Wait, what the fuck are you doing? No, no, that's not.

[Dave Anthony]

It's a joke.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a joke.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, but my God, how.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's parody. Shut up. Don't do it.

[Dave Anthony]

How fucking funny would it be if there was a knitter? Luigi. Oh, my God.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, my God. It's very calming. It's very meditative. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Played on, like Some phone footage in a month and a half. Anthony joked recently about there being a knitting Luigi.

[Dave Anthony]

And then they get me on Fox News. Yeah, I said it. You're just gonna let all the fucking yard places close?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why are you from Boston?

[Dave Anthony]

America?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You wanna live in. You're not from Boston. Why are you doing a Boston accent? A little bit?

[Dave Anthony]

That's what I do on Fox News.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're yourself. You're Dave Anthony, yourself. You're actually you.

[Dave Anthony]

Am I?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

So police. Police Chief Frank Ramon said it was just a few cops who were doing the shooting and the taking of money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Which is always the price. It's a few bad apples. Yeah, a couple bad apples. And then the orchard is sound.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then we need to plant more trees.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They need to be everywhere.

[Dave Anthony]

If there's bad guys, we need more guys like them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Well, hold on. Watch. Wait. Them. Yes. I. I don't know if he was saying anything towards what you were saying.

[Dave Anthony]

But I agree with him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I believe that man was just tased. That man literally just yelled. And you went. Exactly.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Bingo. That's what I'm saying, my man. No need to put some words around that. That's pretty clear.

[Dave Anthony]

The mayor said he wanted to build a better city and not run the police department. So it wasn't his problem.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Huh. The mayor was like, that's not.

[Dave Anthony]

He's like, I can't deal with the staffing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's out of my jurisdiction. Sorry.

[Dave Anthony]

If they're taking money and shooting up the comedy underground. Sorry, public officials. Is the comedy underground still there, by the way?

[Gareth Reynolds]

That guy says, no, it's funny that, like eight people, like, for sure.

[Dave Anthony]

That was a. When I was starting out, that was like a fun club, public. Although the one time I went there and a lady just vomited on the table, that wasn't as fun.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What joke were you doing?

[Dave Anthony]

Public officials said having a tolerance policy kept Chicago gangsters from moving in and taking over. A post Intelligencer series revealed the payoffs and cheating in the pinball world. And it revealed the mass crime racket of bingo.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It is a very easy game to cheat at that. There's a guy you're putting a lot on. Yeah. B3. A6.

[Dave Anthony]

You could easily make up cards that would never win.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, how. How do you do it?

[Dave Anthony]

Because you, you know what you're going to call you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You. Yeah, that's what I mean. The caller is so essential. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And so you. You have cards printed up and you know what you're going to Call ahead of time.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. So the guy's just like, seat the too. Wait a minute.

[Dave Anthony]

There's no c.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I have banco. Just feel something's off here. My dber doesn't work. Shut up, you old biddy.

[Dave Anthony]

So they were going after old people.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

And I don't understand.

[Gareth Reynolds]

None of us have had bingo. That guy keeps winning bingo.

[Dave Anthony]

And they were taking a run at charities, and the operation was bringing in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my fucking God.

[Dave Anthony]

Now, the biggest was the Lifeline Club at Pike's Place Market. And the second biggest was Alpha Assisting Legislation for aging.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus.

[Dave Anthony]

The pensioners would get a bingo card for a dime.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right.

[Dave Anthony]

Good for one game only.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right.

[Dave Anthony]

And the Post Intelligencers sent undercover bingo players in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You look a little young to come in here. Don't worry about it. I'm 81 1.

[Dave Anthony]

Lost $395 while winning just $55 over four months.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't understand. Oh, wait, that's the cop.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now, I don't know.

[Dave Anthony]

Reporter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, whatever I am. Yeah, I'm undercover.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1968, the Post Intelligencer, Seattle Magazine, and King TV. It's King. We can just say it's King. Joined together for a joint investigation into corruption in King County. And Seattle magazine did a profile on prosecuting attorneys Charles Oliver Carroll. So Carroll is a hero in Seattle. He had been an all american running back for the University of Washington in 1928.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We are so dumb. So dumb. This guy could carry a football.

[Dave Anthony]

In a legendary game in which his team lost. Carroll was so amazing that opposing Stanford players carried him off the field.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is the whitest privilegest I've ever heard. For he's a jolly good fellow for he said, come on, everybody, for your fellow. For he's a jolly good.

[Dave Anthony]

President elect.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, if he came back into the locker room after the opposing team did that, I'd be like, yeah, what the fuck? Tell him to put you down. They were carrying me off. Yeah, you fucking asshole.

[Dave Anthony]

President elect. And Stanford alumnus Herbert Hoover was so excited, he yelled, quote, that man is the captain of my all American team. So Carol was a bit of a big deal.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We really. I mean.

[Dave Anthony]

But it's like, 40 years later, he's still a big deal. The Seattle magazine story was not good, showing him to be a revenge vengeful prosecutor. It was especially harsh on black people felt that coming. The magazine called for his resignation, and the media report revealed secret visits between Ben Kitchie and prosecutor Carroll. And a Grady photo apparently showed him Bringing money to Carol.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why the fuck could these people not meet? Like, in dark places to get. Like, why was everyone like, all right, no one's around. Let's go. Get out of this street lamp. There's a big wad of cash. Now get out of here. Scram.

[Dave Anthony]

See, I mean, he would go to his house, when the door open, he'd hand him the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There you are, there's a bunch of money. Here you go. Here's money. Thank you for that money. Now, don't be afraid to walk it down the street.

[Dave Anthony]

The reporter quote, what could possibly be the nature of such liaisons between men of such diverse callings? A prosecutor and a pillar of the pinball fellowship.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

The pinball fellowship.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look, it's a royal family. The pinball fellowship.

[Dave Anthony]

Legal opinions issued. Legal opinions issued by Carroll had allowed Kichi's organization to have almost total control of the pinball industry. And legal opinions basically went against actual laws. So it's like, what if you heard of Trump? It's what Trump does.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay?

[Dave Anthony]

When the story came out, Carroll refused to answer any questions. And he's not just a prosecutor. He's a powerful Republican politician who controlled a bunch of public offices. So the story hit when a payoff system in the Seattle Police Department was also being exposed in the press. Cops were taking money from gamblers and taverns to stay in business. The Seattle Post Intelligencer also documented how incredibly profitable the pinball business was.5 million a year. As we said, the state attorney general then asked the governor for legal powers to conduct an investigation, and the governor declined. He said it was too soon.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Too soon? We can't.

[Dave Anthony]

That's what respect. Pressure grows. And later that year, the AG ran as a Dem against the governor, and the pinball scandal became the big campaign issue. Okay, so the governor claimed the AG's investigation into Carol was politically motivated, and the governor was reelected.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love. I just. That idea that things. It's like, yeah, it is politically motivated. Him. Get him out of here. Well, that sounds a little political.

[Dave Anthony]

But because of the pressure.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm getting so mad at that picture.

[Dave Anthony]

It's fair. It's fair. Because of the pressure, he lets a new he run an investigation into Carol and Kichi. And sadly, on May 30, 1969, before any real investigation got going, Ben Kichee was found drowned in shallow water near his Lake Washington home. Death was ruled an accident. People were a little bit suspicious, though, because he was a really good swimmer, and he drowned in five feet of water.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Remarkable. Obviously. Like, why would you Not. Oh, for fuck's sake. You can't go out a little further? Five feet. There we are. Hey, should we take them out deeper? Nah, let's go get some food. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. It.

[Dave Anthony]

Now Carol refuses to answer any questions about the Kichi scandal. And in the end, the new AG concluded there was no evidence of corruption. Okay, so there was currently an interim mayor because the previous mayor took a position in the Nixon administration. So the interim mayor was a city councilman who wanted a clean house, and he gave limited power to three assistant police chiefs to clean up the department apartment. And on September 24, 1969, when Chief Ramon was on vacation.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't believe it's 69. And we're still like, let's figure out pinball.

[Dave Anthony]

It's been going on for 30 years.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Summer of love has passed. Woodstock has happened. And we're still like, all right. Pinball is still a huge epidemic.

[Dave Anthony]

So Chief Ramona's on vacation. So they raid the Lifeline Club Bingo without telling him. And they cite 80 gamblers, but confiscate evidence which included payoffs to politicians. So the chief then declared there would be no. He comes back and he's like, no more rapes. We're not doing that anymore. So now it's the police chief against the three assistant chiefs, and it's like a standoff. And the three assistant chiefs demand the chief step down. And reporters for KOMO revealed the chief had cut Vice funding after the raid and released the gun of a Lifeline owner from evidence as a favor, and that the gun had once belonged to a deputy sheriff whose wife now worked at the club.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's not great, but it's also. So it's just, this is what it is. It's constantly people like, that was illegal. I'm like, fire him. Get him out of here. Here, Change the laws. I don't want to get in trouble.

[Dave Anthony]

So now Bingo is seen as a criminal enterprise.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dave. I, I, I, I, I don't, I, I just, I'm not, I, I don't know. I don't know if I can't shift gears into Bingo right now. I'm really, I'm still pinball reeling. And now Bingo. Bingo, criminal enterprise.

[Dave Anthony]

So, Chief Ra, it's a crazy time. There's anti war protests, there's rioting, there's a lot of bombings. From February 1969 to July 1970, there are 90 bombs set off in Seattle. That's kind of cool. I'm kind of into that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

90 bombs?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Seattle was third in bombings behind New York and Chicago go also. But first, per capita.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There'S a. A bombing every like three and a half days.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. Now cops are being called pigs so often.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It'S. It's all we have that they adopted.

[Dave Anthony]

The term and chose pig as a mascot and used the motto pride, integrity and guts.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, here's what's great. Completely didn't work like that. That didn't stay and still pig like. Don't call me that. Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Imagine know a new mayor began bringing in interim police chiefs from California. There were six Seattle police chiefs from 1969.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I like the fact that you go to another state to get cops to.

[Dave Anthony]

When it's not up, you do. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, now we can't go anywhere.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Cuz they're all great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Cuz they're all pride, integrity, guts. That's the best way to cover it. What's up, pig? Excuse me. Pride, integrity, guts.

[Dave Anthony]

I respect you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1970, ex King County Sheriff Terry. Terry. Tim McCullough was indicted for taking bribes from Frank Coloccio and Ben Kitchy. Now, Carroll ran for reelection as King county prosecutor. And he spent the campaign refusing to talk about his relationship. Relationship with Kitchy and lost the election.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

The new prosecutor immediately started investigating corruption and indicted Carol and 18 others. A formal Seattle council, city council president and an ex Seattle police chief. All the charges were about gambling, bribery and. Bribery and prostitution.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We didn't even really talk about the pro. We didn't even have time to talk about prostitution.

[Dave Anthony]

How do you. It's just exhausting. Testimony showed a massive cop racket where cops were the bag men. A bar owner quote, the beat cops were bag men. And I mean that. Literally every week I put a paper bag on the bar and the Bey comes in, sits down, has coffee, picks up the bag with $100 in cash in it and says goodbye. In return, I don't get busted for code or liquor violations. The cops would take half the money and bring the rest of their sergeant and then the sergeant would take it up the line. Some cops are making a thousand dollars a month, which is 9,000 today. City Councilman Charles M. Kaler M. Carroll, who is different from the first Care. This guy's known as Streetcar Charlie because he liked. He likes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love how you're like, there's no time. Streetcar Charlie. Keep going.

[Dave Anthony]

He likes streetcars.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He likes streetcars.

[Dave Anthony]

He was really into streetcars.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, keep going.

[Dave Anthony]

Obviously not.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Obviously he was not effective.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I like when they ding.

[Dave Anthony]

He would.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Down in the back, sir. Down in the back. Sir. Sir. Sir. Down in the back.

[Dave Anthony]

Sir.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sir. We're going like two miles an hour. Sir. Sir. Sir. Hold on. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Stop. Sir, we stopped. We got a lot of people on here today, so please keep it together. We have a bunch of stops to make. Okay? Are you going to be able to hold it together? What's your name?

[Dave Anthony]

Streetcar Charlie.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, that's not great. All right, here we go. Sir. Sir. Sir.

[Dave Anthony]

Sir.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Glad we gave him a little moment.

[Dave Anthony]

Streetcard Charlie was getting $3,000 a month from the cops. He oversaw the committee licensing pinball machines. A hundred cops, many retired, were implicated in crimes going back 35 years.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. Imagine being retired. Hello. I was just gonna go play some bingo.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, I bet you were.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who? What? Who's at the door? Alan.

[Dave Anthony]

Drop those bingo cards. You son of a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What took you so long?

[Dave Anthony]

Every day I play bingo and I shake. The prosecutor said Prosecutor Carroll was a political boss and had dirt on everyone, which he used to get what he wanted. But the cases fell apart over time. Streetcar Charlie's case was dismissed. And by 1973, there are only 10 cases remaining. So from 100 to 10, ex Chief Ramon had been given immunity. Accidentally, they were like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That'S just unfucking real.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Because he. He did the thing you see in movies where they're like, I will give you money on this. And then he went and just laid it all out. And they were like. So you were doing everything?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep. Anyway, have a good life.

[Dave Anthony]

A judge dismissed most of the rest. Carol. Because the only witness against him was admitted perjurer. Only one cop pleaded guilty for taking bribes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

His lawyer was like, we fucked up.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So turns out nobody else went down for this.

[Dave Anthony]

Bad news.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I plead guilty. I did it all. Bingo. Guilty. Guilty.

[Dave Anthony]

Bingo.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Guilty. Guilty. Bingo.

[Dave Anthony]

He got two months in jail.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Two months. This is pathetic. This is like, crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

Charles Carroll died in 2003, and the city.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He was 180.

[Dave Anthony]

And the city prosecutor at the time said, quote, he was really a giant of his era, both in sports and legal arenas. He was a grand old man. And I miss him. I really do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What you didn't mention is that the pallbearers were a bunch of people from another family. They carried him to the grave. Think about it. Thought it'd go better. Obviously.

[Dave Anthony]

For years, the cop bagman who took money from what became Pike Place, Market Grill.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

Would sit on a stool mooching drinks. Never indicted. He got full retirement. And the owner, quote, I wanted to ask him for my money. Back. So he went to the place he used to take money from and just got drinks for the rest of his life. Yeah, because why wouldn't he?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why wouldn't he? Yeah. I almost like it, to be quite honest with you. I almost respect him just sitting there like, I have a vodka soda.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know what.

[Dave Anthony]

According to pinballmap.com, which is, by the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Way, a great website. If you guys.

[Dave Anthony]

If you. Yeah, I've spent a lot of time.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Why don't you give everyone your login? I think it should work.

[Dave Anthony]

Seattle has 484 pinball machines out for public play. With a pinball to person ratio of 1 to 1835 people. Seattle is the number two pinball city in the country. Portland is in first. You guys should like each other. Your baby basically the same.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why would you do that?

[Dave Anthony]

Because I'm me.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know what? You do get that of your dad.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You both are addicted to booze.

[Dave Anthony]

Research was done by Josh Androwski. Oh, wait, did I do research for this? I don't remember.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Thank you, Josh. Or maybe Dave.

[Dave Anthony]

I got from the C. Seattle Star. I got from Seattle Times. I got from historylink.org and Christopher Klein wrote the Time that America outlawed pinball on history.com David Wilma wrote a bunch of stuff on pinball. The main source for this was Brian Holden's Vice files. He also reprinted it at History link. And at the end he said, by the way, please, anybody who wants to rewrite and use this as a source because history should be spread around as opposed to copyrighted.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't agree, but.

[Dave Anthony]

I miss Jones.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is crazy. I really don't even know what. What is the. What is the moral to something like this? I'm completely lost as far as what we would say is the needle. The threat.

[Dave Anthony]

No one is persecuted for their crime.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. That everything as currently constructed continues to be completely ineffective and against societal.

[Dave Anthony]

Our society, because it's capitalist, allows them to buy all justice. And then they get to do what they want.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Always money. Yes, Always money. Always greed. It never will work as long as we have it. And we live in a system currently constructed where it will never go every. Ever.

[Dave Anthony]

That's right. Yeah. I mean the battle to overthrow capitalism. Some people thought it would be fast. Other people thought it would take hundreds of years. It's going to take a long time. It's a failed system already. So like, it is what it is. Like, but this is like. But these examples have been going on for continued microcosms.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Over and over again.

[Dave Anthony]

It's a failed system. It's a failed system.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Guess what? Yeah, it doesn't work. Yeah. You preach every everything until you get to the top and then you're like, actually, money is awesome.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I mean, you know, whatever. It's all good. How many times can I say that? It sucks. Like, it sucks. It's not working.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love you still. All right, well, it. Thank you, everybody for coming. I appreciate it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Hey, dollop fans. I know you love the dollop. You love listening to the dollop. Do you want to watch the dollop? You're like, gareth, what are you talking about? By the way, it's not Gary, it's Gareth. Well, we have partnered with Lakeside Animation and we are starting to animate some of our episodes. So if you want to go watch a five parter animation, which is actually like a 22 minute episode or 30 minute episode, I can't remember remember, of the rube, you can go to LakeSide Animation on YouTube and watch a really awesome animation of the rube. It. It really genuinely kicks ass and we're very proud of it. And the more you share it, the more you give it to people, the more you follow Lakeside, all that stuff, the better chance we have of making a lot more of them. We're already making a second one, so go there and watch the rube.