The Dollop Episode 709: Butter vs. Margarine (Live)

Hosts: Dave Anthony & Gareth Reynolds
Date: November 11, 2025
Theme: The epic and bizarre history of the struggle between butter and margarine in America, focusing particularly on the fervor in Wisconsin.

Episode Overview

This live episode explores the century-long, often hysterical battle between butter and margarine in the United States, with Wisconsin as the climactic battleground. Through comedic riffing, Dave and Gareth recount how margarine was invented, the smear campaigns, the absurd laws, and the cultural obsessions that made America—especially Wisconsin—lose its mind over what people put on their bread.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Birth of Margarine and the French Connection

• The Problem: After Napoleon’s disastrous retreat from Russia, Napoleon III seeks preserved foods for the military, spurring the invention of butter alternatives (01:32).
• The Invention: Hippolyte Mège-Mouriès creates "oleomargarine" from beef tallow in 1869 to win Napoleon III’s prize (02:07).
  • Dave: “He called it oleomargarine, from the Latin oleum meaning beef fat, and the Greek margarite, meaning pearl.” (03:29)
  • Gareth (riffing): “He’s got beef pearls.” (03:55)
• Initial Reception: The emperor hoped the poor would like it, but they “all hated it.” Mège-Mouriès dies poor; margarine goes global anyway (05:00).

2. America's Suspicion and Outrage

• Margarine Arrives: Patented in 1873, margarine faces suspicion and immediate outrage in the U.S., particularly from farmers and traditionalists (09:47).
  • Dave: "People said it threatened the family farm, the Moral order and the American way of life." (10:13)
  • Gareth: “Maybe not a freak out...maybe accurate.” (10:24)
• Political Oratory: “Sweet and wholesome butter” becomes a rallying cry. Governor Hubbard of Minnesota laments the “culmination of depraved human genius” (11:21).
• Quality Issues: Wisconsin's transition from small farms to factories attempts to improve butter, but early products are so bad that Chicago markets use Wisconsin butter as machinery lubricant (16:04).
  • Dave: "In Chicago, Wisconsin butter was sold as a lubricant, not for eating." (16:38)
  • Gareth: “Now hold on a minute, I feel like there's a market we've not been thinking of.” (16:51)

3. Scare Campaigns and Legislative Brawls

• Demonizing Margarine: Media and politicians attack margarine as “indigestible,” dangerous, and chock full of poisons and even strays ("Koshocton Tribune" list, 21:36).
  • Dave: "...indigestible, insoluble...improper ingredients are used...cow's udders, stomachs of pigs, nitric acid..." (21:37)
  • Gareth: “Read a bag of Doritos ingredients, you’d be like, yeah, that's pretty much it.” (22:11)
• Cartoon Propaganda: Margariners are depicted mixing their product with soap, stray cats, boots (23:32).
  • Dave: “Pro butter cartoonists drew factories putting all kinds of stuff in margarine. Soap, paint, arsenic, rubber boots and stray cats.” (23:32)
• Legal War: By the 1880s, states pass anti-margarine laws (24:03). Federal taxes and draconian fees follow (24:35).

4. The Yellow Color War

• Yellow Panic: Coloring margarine to resemble butter becomes central. Laws force margarine to be pink or even black to distinguish it as fake (26:05–27:09).
  • Dave: “Butter is yellow from plant carotene in the milk of grass-fed cows. Margarine...came out white like paste.” (25:53)
  • Gareth: “How’s your pink toast?” (27:21)
• Supreme Court Smackdown: Attempts to ban margarine or force pink bans are struck down; states push back with new laws and taxes (28:40).

5. Workarounds and Moonshiners

• Kitchen Chemistry: Laws force margarine producers to include yellow dye packets for customers to color margarine at home (36:24).
  • Dave: “They came up with a new idea...included a capsule of yellow dye with each pound so people could color it themselves...” (36:24)
  • Gareth: “Coloring margarine became a common kitchen task.” (36:59)
  • Memorable Moment: Kids treat stomping and coloring margarine as a game (37:22).
• Smuggling: Wisconsin creates a black market for margarine, moonshiner-style raids ensue (47:25).
  • Dave: “The Daily Northwestern published a how-to guide to ID and apprehend margarine moonshiners.” (47:25)

6. Health Debates and Resurgence

• Fake Wholesomeness: Butter defenders claim only “dairy” is wholesome. Margarine manufacturers argue back, pushing tales of contaminated dairies (32:10-32:50).
  • Dave: “Margarine makers...said...the cows...were diseased and dirty...” (32:50)
• Science Fights Back: Studies (not so reliable) claim butter-fed rats are healthier, and magazines print cartoons of happy “milk-fat rats” vs. crazed "vegetable oil rats” (54:23).
• Vegetable Fats to the Rescue: Technological advances enable tastier, vegetable-based margarine and branding pivots create new, independent mar-quee brands (56:05).

7. Wisconsin’s (and America’s) Last Margarine Stand

• Depression & WWII: Rationing forces margarine (particularly “white butter”) into American kitchens. Laws and taxes in Wisconsin remain draconian (57:33).
• Smuggling & Permits: Marg smuggling flourishes along the Wisconsin border. Permits are issued, every pound purchased recorded. The law officially bans margarine’s use (even if “possession” is legal), leading to farce and confusion (60:01–64:27).
  • Gareth: “People were given margarine consumer permits so they could legally use it. But every pound they bought was recorded and reports were sent quarterly...” (64:15)

8. Endgame: The Great Margarine Legalization

• Social Shifts and Irony: Even farmers and clergy cross state lines to buy margarine. Eleanor Roosevelt appears in commercials for “Good Luck” margarine (65:03).
  • Gareth (mock outrage): “She’s an enemy now. I used to really like her.” (65:18)
• Legislative Farce: In the 1960s, Wisconsin becomes the last holdout. Dramatic Senate taste tests reveal that even anti-margarine crusaders can’t tell the difference (75:37–77:12).
  • Dave: “The one who didn’t [guess right] was Senator Roseliep...he said the samples came too quickly and he didn’t rinse his mouth between tests.” (76:53)
• Poetic Justice: Decades later, Roseliep’s daughter reveals his wife secretly served him margarine for years (79:05).
• Final Legalization: After entrenched opposition is voted out and the public demands change, color and use bans are lifted by the 1970s (80:15).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Culture War:
  • Dave: “People said it threatened the family farm, the Moral order and the American way of life.” (10:13)
  • Gareth: “We’re cheating on butter with our dirty mistress, margarine, in the shed where it belongs.” (21:07)
• On Propaganda:
  • Dave: “Pro butter cartoonists drew factories putting all kinds of stuff in margarine. Soap, paint, arsenic, rubber boots and stray cats.” (23:32)
• On Legal Absurdity:
  • Dave: “It wasn’t just illegal to sell colored margarine, it was illegal to use it…it was okay to possess it, but you could not use it.” (60:15)
• On Kitchen Workarounds:
  • Dave: “Soon coloring margarine became a common kitchen task.” (36:59)
  • Gareth: “Kids loved it. Coloring the margarine, coloring the margarine…” (37:12)
• On Modern Irony:
  • Dave: “20 years after [Roseliep] died, a daughter revealed his wife had been secretly substituting margarine because of his health.” (79:05)
  • Gareth: “That is such a betrayal. How fucking dare she. She’s here tonight.” (79:50)
• Summing Up the Absurdity:
  • Gareth: “What the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you like this? Who hurt you? What the actual fuck? Are you out of your minds?...Get your heads out of your buttery bottoms.” (72:14)

Timeline of Key Moments (Timestamps)

• [01:32–03:49] — How margarine was created in response to Napoleon III’s contest.
• [05:00–06:47] — Early adoption struggles; Magee Marie’s legacy.
• [09:47–10:33] — The American freak-out and “family farm” rhetoric.
• [11:21–14:44] — Politicians go overboard; jokes about quality of early Wisconsin butter.
• [16:04–16:38] — Wisconsin butter sold as machine lubricant in Chicago.
• [21:36–22:11] — The infamous “Koshocton Tribune” condemnation list.
• [25:53–27:09] — The battle over margarine coloring and pink spread laws.
• [36:24–37:57] — The home-coloring era: yellow dye capsules and kids’ involvement.
• [47:25–49:23] — Margarine moonshining and law enforcement raids.
• [54:23–55:40] — Rat experiments and pro-butter magazine cartooning.
• [60:01–61:17] — It’s illegal to use margarine—but legal to possess!
• [64:15–65:00] — Margarine permits: a bureaucratic comedy.
• [75:37–77:12] — The infamous State Senate butter vs. margarine taste test.
• [79:05–79:50] — Poetic justice: anti-margarine senator’s secret margarine diet.
• [80:15–80:58] — Final removal of Wisconsin margarine bans.

Tone and Style

The hosts blend historical storytelling with irreverent, improv-heavy comedy, using exaggeration, regional stereotypes, and absurd hypothetical dialogue to highlight the insanity at the heart of the “butter wars.” Dave often takes the role of fact-provider, while Gareth riffs, interrupts, and improvises dialogues between embattled butter-makers, housewives, and lawmakers, maximizing the episode’s playful, mocking tone—especially towards the anti-margarine zeal.

Conclusion

"Butter vs. Margarine" on The Dollop is a whirlwind ride through the fever pitch of America’s food politics, showing how something as apparently trivial as a bread spread can ignite moral panic, legislative excess, black markets, and even family betrayal. With gleeful disregard for solemnity, Dave and Gareth show that food fights aren’t mere metaphors for America’s culture wars—they’re sometimes the real thing.

Recommended If You Like: Unbelievable history, food fights, culture war absurdities, regulatory farce, and sharp, dark improv comedy.