709 - Butter vs Margarine - live

Summary

---

The Dollop Episode 709: Butter vs. Margarine (Live)

Hosts: Dave Anthony & Gareth Reynolds
Date: November 11, 2025
Theme: The epic and bizarre history of the struggle between butter and margarine in America, focusing particularly on the fervor in Wisconsin.

---

Episode Overview

This live episode explores the century-long, often hysterical battle between butter and margarine in the United States, with Wisconsin as the climactic battleground. Through comedic riffing, Dave and Gareth recount how margarine was invented, the smear campaigns, the absurd laws, and the cultural obsessions that made America—especially Wisconsin—lose its mind over what people put on their bread.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Birth of Margarine and the French Connection

• The Problem: After Napoleon’s disastrous retreat from Russia, Napoleon III seeks preserved foods for the military, spurring the invention of butter alternatives (01:32).
• The Invention: Hippolyte Mège-Mouriès creates "oleomargarine" from beef tallow in 1869 to win Napoleon III’s prize (02:07).
  • Dave: “He called it oleomargarine, from the Latin oleum meaning beef fat, and the Greek margarite, meaning pearl.” (03:29)
  • Gareth (riffing): “He’s got beef pearls.” (03:55)
• Initial Reception: The emperor hoped the poor would like it, but they “all hated it.” Mège-Mouriès dies poor; margarine goes global anyway (05:00).

2. America's Suspicion and Outrage

• Margarine Arrives: Patented in 1873, margarine faces suspicion and immediate outrage in the U.S., particularly from farmers and traditionalists (09:47).
  • Dave: "People said it threatened the family farm, the Moral order and the American way of life." (10:13)
  • Gareth: “Maybe not a freak out...maybe accurate.” (10:24)
• Political Oratory: “Sweet and wholesome butter” becomes a rallying cry. Governor Hubbard of Minnesota laments the “culmination of depraved human genius” (11:21).
• Quality Issues: Wisconsin's transition from small farms to factories attempts to improve butter, but early products are so bad that Chicago markets use Wisconsin butter as machinery lubricant (16:04).
  • Dave: "In Chicago, Wisconsin butter was sold as a lubricant, not for eating." (16:38)
  • Gareth: “Now hold on a minute, I feel like there's a market we've not been thinking of.” (16:51)

3. Scare Campaigns and Legislative Brawls

• Demonizing Margarine: Media and politicians attack margarine as “indigestible,” dangerous, and chock full of poisons and even strays ("Koshocton Tribune" list, 21:36).
  • Dave: "...indigestible, insoluble...improper ingredients are used...cow's udders, stomachs of pigs, nitric acid..." (21:37)
  • Gareth: “Read a bag of Doritos ingredients, you’d be like, yeah, that's pretty much it.” (22:11)
• Cartoon Propaganda: Margariners are depicted mixing their product with soap, stray cats, boots (23:32).
  • Dave: “Pro butter cartoonists drew factories putting all kinds of stuff in margarine. Soap, paint, arsenic, rubber boots and stray cats.” (23:32)
• Legal War: By the 1880s, states pass anti-margarine laws (24:03). Federal taxes and draconian fees follow (24:35).

4. The Yellow Color War

• Yellow Panic: Coloring margarine to resemble butter becomes central. Laws force margarine to be pink or even black to distinguish it as fake (26:05–27:09).
  • Dave: “Butter is yellow from plant carotene in the milk of grass-fed cows. Margarine...came out white like paste.” (25:53)
  • Gareth: “How’s your pink toast?” (27:21)
• Supreme Court Smackdown: Attempts to ban margarine or force pink bans are struck down; states push back with new laws and taxes (28:40).

5. Workarounds and Moonshiners

• Kitchen Chemistry: Laws force margarine producers to include yellow dye packets for customers to color margarine at home (36:24).
  • Dave: “They came up with a new idea...included a capsule of yellow dye with each pound so people could color it themselves...” (36:24)
  • Gareth: “Coloring margarine became a common kitchen task.” (36:59)
  • Memorable Moment: Kids treat stomping and coloring margarine as a game (37:22).
• Smuggling: Wisconsin creates a black market for margarine, moonshiner-style raids ensue (47:25).
  • Dave: “The Daily Northwestern published a how-to guide to ID and apprehend margarine moonshiners.” (47:25)

6. Health Debates and Resurgence

• Fake Wholesomeness: Butter defenders claim only “dairy” is wholesome. Margarine manufacturers argue back, pushing tales of contaminated dairies (32:10-32:50).
  • Dave: “Margarine makers...said...the cows...were diseased and dirty...” (32:50)
• Science Fights Back: Studies (not so reliable) claim butter-fed rats are healthier, and magazines print cartoons of happy “milk-fat rats” vs. crazed "vegetable oil rats” (54:23).
• Vegetable Fats to the Rescue: Technological advances enable tastier, vegetable-based margarine and branding pivots create new, independent mar-quee brands (56:05).

7. Wisconsin’s (and America’s) Last Margarine Stand

• Depression & WWII: Rationing forces margarine (particularly “white butter”) into American kitchens. Laws and taxes in Wisconsin remain draconian (57:33).
• Smuggling & Permits: Marg smuggling flourishes along the Wisconsin border. Permits are issued, every pound purchased recorded. The law officially bans margarine’s use (even if “possession” is legal), leading to farce and confusion (60:01–64:27).
  • Gareth: “People were given margarine consumer permits so they could legally use it. But every pound they bought was recorded and reports were sent quarterly...” (64:15)

8. Endgame: The Great Margarine Legalization

• Social Shifts and Irony: Even farmers and clergy cross state lines to buy margarine. Eleanor Roosevelt appears in commercials for “Good Luck” margarine (65:03).
  • Gareth (mock outrage): “She’s an enemy now. I used to really like her.” (65:18)
• Legislative Farce: In the 1960s, Wisconsin becomes the last holdout. Dramatic Senate taste tests reveal that even anti-margarine crusaders can’t tell the difference (75:37–77:12).
  • Dave: “The one who didn’t [guess right] was Senator Roseliep...he said the samples came too quickly and he didn’t rinse his mouth between tests.” (76:53)
• Poetic Justice: Decades later, Roseliep’s daughter reveals his wife secretly served him margarine for years (79:05).
• Final Legalization: After entrenched opposition is voted out and the public demands change, color and use bans are lifted by the 1970s (80:15).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Culture War:
  • Dave: “People said it threatened the family farm, the Moral order and the American way of life.” (10:13)
  • Gareth: “We’re cheating on butter with our dirty mistress, margarine, in the shed where it belongs.” (21:07)
• On Propaganda:
  • Dave: “Pro butter cartoonists drew factories putting all kinds of stuff in margarine. Soap, paint, arsenic, rubber boots and stray cats.” (23:32)
• On Legal Absurdity:
  • Dave: “It wasn’t just illegal to sell colored margarine, it was illegal to use it…it was okay to possess it, but you could not use it.” (60:15)
• On Kitchen Workarounds:
  • Dave: “Soon coloring margarine became a common kitchen task.” (36:59)
  • Gareth: “Kids loved it. Coloring the margarine, coloring the margarine…” (37:12)
• On Modern Irony:
  • Dave: “20 years after [Roseliep] died, a daughter revealed his wife had been secretly substituting margarine because of his health.” (79:05)
  • Gareth: “That is such a betrayal. How fucking dare she. She’s here tonight.” (79:50)
• Summing Up the Absurdity:
  • Gareth: “What the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you like this? Who hurt you? What the actual fuck? Are you out of your minds?...Get your heads out of your buttery bottoms.” (72:14)

---

Timeline of Key Moments (Timestamps)

• [01:32–03:49] — How margarine was created in response to Napoleon III’s contest.
• [05:00–06:47] — Early adoption struggles; Magee Marie’s legacy.
• [09:47–10:33] — The American freak-out and “family farm” rhetoric.
• [11:21–14:44] — Politicians go overboard; jokes about quality of early Wisconsin butter.
• [16:04–16:38] — Wisconsin butter sold as machine lubricant in Chicago.
• [21:36–22:11] — The infamous “Koshocton Tribune” condemnation list.
• [25:53–27:09] — The battle over margarine coloring and pink spread laws.
• [36:24–37:57] — The home-coloring era: yellow dye capsules and kids’ involvement.
• [47:25–49:23] — Margarine moonshining and law enforcement raids.
• [54:23–55:40] — Rat experiments and pro-butter magazine cartooning.
• [60:01–61:17] — It’s illegal to use margarine—but legal to possess!
• [64:15–65:00] — Margarine permits: a bureaucratic comedy.
• [75:37–77:12] — The infamous State Senate butter vs. margarine taste test.
• [79:05–79:50] — Poetic justice: anti-margarine senator’s secret margarine diet.
• [80:15–80:58] — Final removal of Wisconsin margarine bans.

---

Tone and Style

The hosts blend historical storytelling with irreverent, improv-heavy comedy, using exaggeration, regional stereotypes, and absurd hypothetical dialogue to highlight the insanity at the heart of the “butter wars.” Dave often takes the role of fact-provider, while Gareth riffs, interrupts, and improvises dialogues between embattled butter-makers, housewives, and lawmakers, maximizing the episode’s playful, mocking tone—especially towards the anti-margarine zeal.

---

Conclusion

"Butter vs. Margarine" on The Dollop is a whirlwind ride through the fever pitch of America’s food politics, showing how something as apparently trivial as a bread spread can ignite moral panic, legislative excess, black markets, and even family betrayal. With gleeful disregard for solemnity, Dave and Gareth show that food fights aren’t mere metaphors for America’s culture wars—they’re sometimes the real thing.

---

Recommended If You Like: Unbelievable history, food fights, culture war absurdities, regulatory farce, and sharp, dark improv comedy.

Transcript

[Dave Anthony]

You're listening to the Dollop. This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to a swordfish.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Cherry guy, Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the Highland House was thinking.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, none of us do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

What the fuck?

[Gareth Reynolds]

They were putting it through the washer.

[Dave Anthony]

Why would you clean it?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, let it stay dirty and just use it again. You're not. You're glib, Matt. You're glib. You're not listening.

[Dave Anthony]

You're the only guy who wants dirty swordfish.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're not listening. That's not what I want. I want a fresh fruit from the box. Swordfish.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, then why didn't you take your swordfish home? So they had to do that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I did, but it was a reuse. What year? 1422. Let's go. Come on, come on. Chop chop. Let's go.

[Dave Anthony]

Just like you need, you need to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hear February 23rd 2nd, 1841.

[Dave Anthony]

Come on, you need to go to therapy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's get moving.

[Dave Anthony]

To work out your swordfish.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I don't need to go to therapy. I'm doing really good with my swordfish.

[Dave Anthony]

Shit, you're not 1812.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1812, Napoleon attempted to conquer Russia and failed spectacularly. His troops suffered horribly on the retreat due to the cold and lack of food, leading to the deaths of close to a million. Fifty years later, Napoleon III wanted his troops to be better supplied. That meant the foods that lasted longer were cheaper and nutritious. Now, the French love bread and butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep, that's it.

[Dave Anthony]

Now, specifically, Napoleon III wanted an alternative for butter. So that way you didn't have cows cruising along with the troops. Or fewer. You could have fewer cows or whatever. So when Prussia started eyeing France as part of its expansion plans, Napoleon III started a competition with a big money prize. So in 1869, French chemist Hippolyte Magee Marie came up with a lower priced spread made from beef tallow.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, that is right. I've come up with a new way to spread. We're going to use a beefatello and it's going to be unexceptional. Trust me, we're all going to live out my father's trauma because my dad, I watched my dad and my uncle get shot in their heads. So now we all have to suffer. And you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to take down that pretty woman from Kirby or Enthusiasm with me. She also going to come down. What are you looking at?

[Dave Anthony]

I want it. I was asking him to cut your mic. He called it oleo margarine, from the Latin oleum meaning beef fat, and the Greek margarite, meaning pearl. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait, so what was the first word?

[Dave Anthony]

Oleum for Latin for beef fat.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's got beef pearls.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. Yeah, bro.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, we went to inseminator, but somebody had already put these things. These weirdos are calling beef pearls squirrels up there. Apparently they like it better. They have bigger cowgasms, make more mugu. Speaking of which, this moo goo could be a pretty good spread if you wanted to put it on a charcuterie.

[Dave Anthony]

Can I leave?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, of course. I just want to be clear. Anyone can leave whenever they're ready to go. Yeah, there's. Yeah, those doors are locked, but you can figure it out. We play by Scientology rules. You can leave whenever, but there's no windows and every door is locked. And if you do get out, we'll kill your family. But you're free to go or have a little moo goo.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There you go. Look who's back. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Oleo margarine was cheaper and kept better than butter. And besides the troupe. The emperor was hoping the poor would eat it, but they all hated it. So Mage Marie sold his patent to Jurgens, a Dutch butter making company.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Mir then. Didn't make much money from that. And he died poor. And he watched margarine become successful worldwide.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait, he. Yeah. So he never got. He was like the Nick Drake of buttery spreads.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, that's what they call him in history. The Nick Jake of buttery spreads.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Died like, man, I didn't do anything. But everyone was like, you know, there's a lot of hidden messages in his margarine. I think he predicted. Take a bite of that. I think he predicted his own death.

[Dave Anthony]

Way to bring everything up. Margarine was patented in 1873 and began rolling out across the U.S. oh, fuck.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are we dealing with here? I don't know why you're booing.

[Dave Anthony]

They're gonna boo margarine a lot, because this is Wisconsin.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Just.

[Dave Anthony]

Just let it out. Seems like the Oleo Margarine Manufacturing Company opened in New York and started apart PR push immediately in a Telegraph Courier column titled Butter Made Without Cream. This new butter is made from the same material as ordinary butter. But this material is obtained by a more simple and natural process than milking the cows.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's an interesting phase to skip. It's steps. That feels like a very crucial step.

[Dave Anthony]

It's more natural because there's no cow. No, it's from cow.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, it's All. It's. It's the same. It's from. Also from cow.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But you said you don't.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, you can take it out the side.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Or the top of the cow.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're opening it up?

[Dave Anthony]

Yep.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. Are we doing well? When you can hear a can drop, I think so.

[Dave Anthony]

It's a sign of killing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's a Wisconsin Jewish wedding, by the way. Not a lot of people know that you drop a Pabst. Yeah. Fuck yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Lahams, open bar. It's all Pabst. To make sense of it, the paper explained a more quote. Now, one would naturally say this butter is made from tallow. Not so. It is made from the same material as tallow, as also the same material as ordinary butter, the oil from the fatty tissue of the animal.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sorry.

[Dave Anthony]

This poor guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's pretty confusing. So it is made from tallow.

[Dave Anthony]

Not so. It is made.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So we don't even know.

[Dave Anthony]

It is made from the same material as tallow, which is also the same material as ordinary butter, the oil from the fatty tissue of the animal.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So it's. So it's not tallow.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not tallow. It's made from the same material. It's made from the same material as.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Tallow, but it isn't tallow.

[Dave Anthony]

It's made from the oil from the fatty tissue of the animal. Why are you same as ordinary butter?

[Gareth Reynolds]

It feels like the.

[Dave Anthony]

It's the same. It just comes out from a different part.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why do I feel like Abbott. We're doing who's on tallow.

[Dave Anthony]

It's more natural.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What is the margarine getting the. The figure?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But it's not tallow and it's not from the cow. No, it. Where is it from the cow?

[Dave Anthony]

It's from the fatty tissue of the animal. The oil from the fatty tissue. You don't milk it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You just sort of scoop it.

[Dave Anthony]

You take out a scoop.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So what are you, like, rendering it?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is that a yes period or a yes question mark?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What is it?

[Dave Anthony]

It's oil from the fatty cheese.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, No, I don't. No, do not answer again. Even if I say what is it? Don't answer. Do you understand? Yes, go ahead. I'm not gonna ask.

[Dave Anthony]

While there was some blowback and worries over fraudulent ingredients in Europe over margarine, it was Nothing like the U.S. the agricultural community was immediately upset. Americans were suspicious, alarmed, and people raged against margarine. This morphed into a movement to suppress margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, it worked.

[Dave Anthony]

People said it threatened the family farm, the Moral order and the American way of life.

[Gareth Reynolds]

In retrospect, maybe not a freak out, maybe not just being paranoid, maybe accurate.

[Dave Anthony]

It was an attack on the superiority of farm life. Politicians made passionate speeches about, quote, sweet and wholesome butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't fucking believe they. They cannot imagine. It's like a buttery apac just takes over the guy. So they just. No matter what, there's always a nice handful of politicians who are like, this is the way.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Future generations will be loving margarine, and you will look like a buttery idiot if you're hanging back. So Governor Hubbard had margarine in his cupboard.

[Dave Anthony]

So Governor Hubbard of Minnesota lamented that, quote, the ingenuity of depraved human genius has culminated in the production of oleomargin and its kindred abominations.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nice.

[Dave Anthony]

Wisconsin was just getting into the butter and cheese game when Marjorien arrived.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Whoa. That's wild. That is wild to even picture, Becca. We're like, maybe we will have cows. What do you say? Gotta do something. We'll figure it out. Don't worry about it.

[Dave Anthony]

The state was shifting from small farms to factory production of butter and cheese. And that's because Wisconsin small farms were making butter of quote, abysmal quality.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Easy does it now, David. Easy does it. This is a long time ago. Everybody's like, why don't you shut your fucking mouth?

[Dave Anthony]

This fucking guy's talking shit about our butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

People on the streets. Where are we going? Some fucking asshole comedian's in town from Los Angeles. We're gonna kill him. Why? He's fucking shit talking butter again. Yeah, suck it. Suck the fucking butter. You like that butter, don't you? Let him live. Shut up.

[Dave Anthony]

Wisconsin butter was made in the summer from a tiny amount of milk. Usually the wife made the butter and she may not have had the knowledge or equipment.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, is that important to know the recipe? So she just. You just be like, all right, go outside. Figure it out. And I don't have any idea how to make it. Shut up.

[Dave Anthony]

It's hot. Get outside.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Go use your fucking broom thing.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, do this with your arms or whatever. You know how to do that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There you go. I'm going to shut these windows, though. You're making a lot of noise. Fucking games on, idiot. I think that's pretty bad again. Would be nice if someone gave me the recipe.

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What if I just poured on this popcorn here? That makes no sense.

[Dave Anthony]

Jesus Christ. What are you from fucking Minnesota?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. Yes, I was.

[Dave Anthony]

Not anymore.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No. But that's where I'm originally From Clark.

[Dave Anthony]

Goddammit.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, you asked the basic question. I met you three years ago.

[Dave Anthony]

My God, the noise won't stop.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I love you.

[Dave Anthony]

Stop the noise.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But I don't know how many more times I could go outside just tinkering with a recipe that I have no access to.

[Dave Anthony]

Make the fucking butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know what it is. Really. Do you understand how complicated and dark it is? Every day you send me out there in way too many clothes and you give me one of the sweatiest exercises I've ever seen. I'm just sloshing around a stick in some weird goo. It's like it's moo goo or something like that.

[Dave Anthony]

That was like some kind of inside joke.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I told it outside. Look, I don't know what I'm doing out there, but I'll tell you what I do believe in. Us. I believe we will figure this out together.

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. Why are you saying no? Come on.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm gonna make margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What?

[Dave Anthony]

By myself, in the shed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, that's quite a turn.

[Dave Anthony]

And we'll give it to my new girl.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. I really thought we'd wrap this up a moment ago.

[Dave Anthony]

It's hard to tell with you, honestly.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't believe you're just having an affair. I'm right outside all day. I literally.

[Dave Anthony]

You should have made better butter. You make bad butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know what it is. Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

Then you don't know what love is.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are you doing? This is insane.

[Dave Anthony]

So this leads to butter of uneven quality. Even butter that was made well could deteriorate while waiting to be shipped to the city. In Chicago, they called Wisconsin butter Western Greece.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, we'll finish the show and then we're going to Chicago and we'll show them who does butter.

[Dave Anthony]

In Chicago, Wisconsin butter was sold as a lubricant, not for eating.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now hold on a minute. I feel like there's a market we've not been thinking of that's called Wisconsin style. Put a little on each side like a grilled cheese. Let's party.

[Dave Anthony]

So in 1872, the Wisconsin.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait, are people really Lubricant. Not lubricant for fucking.

[Dave Anthony]

No, for. Jesus Christ, man, get your fucking head out of the gutter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Get my head out of the gutter.

[Dave Anthony]

You can also use it for machinery and like a bike chain. Like. Yes, you can do that too.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm churning the butter.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1872, but hear me out. No, it probably.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It probably happened.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I'm sure some weirdo like you used it as a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There's no shame in that. We're just. Hold on.

[Dave Anthony]

Let me get the butter. All right, honey.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm not putting it on mine.

[Dave Anthony]

Whose are you putting it on?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who's a hooser? We're doing butter cooter. I'm already wet.

[Dave Anthony]

Jesus Christ.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What?

[Dave Anthony]

Your father's here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I believe he left. What? Let me tell you what this. This podcast is about asking important questions and coming to conclusions. And I think together we came to a conclusion. It was probably also used for fucking.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know if we came to that together or if it's just something you needed to happen for some weird reason, butter related something you did as a child.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I've never done it, but my life's not over, is it?

[Dave Anthony]

Your dad was always like, why is all the butter always gone?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't worry. Why are you taking it out in such huge holes?

[Dave Anthony]

So in 1872, the Wisconsin Dairymen's association was formed to develop a modern butter industry. It was created to make butter better butter and promote it, but quickly switched to protecting butter butter from competitors. They realized that the shit quality of Wisconsin butter was an issue.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is such a comeback story we're about to hear.

[Dave Anthony]

So President of the Wisconsin Dairymen's Association, Hiram Smith, quote, oleomargarine is giving better satisfaction than most dairy butter as now made. He believed if butter quality was not improved by the state, margarine would completely take over in cities.

[Gareth Reynolds]

In cities, yes.

[Dave Anthony]

So this city.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Weird.

[Dave Anthony]

It's cheaper, huh? So he just thinks it'll take over?

[Gareth Reynolds]

He thinks. And the city.

[Dave Anthony]

And also the travel time of butter. It's like, obviously not. Not going well.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

So oleomargarine was attacked. So Senator Joseph Quarles said butter must come from dairies, not slaughterhouses, quote, unquote. I want butter that has the natural aroma of life and health. I decline to accept as a substitute call fat matured under the chill of death, blended with vegetable oils and flavored by chemical tricks.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Your steak, Senator. But I love steak.

[Dave Anthony]

I enjoy a steak, but boy, do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I like a burger.

[Dave Anthony]

I will eat a steak. Fuck. Papers called oleomargarine a vile adulteration.

[Gareth Reynolds]

An adulteration. We're cheating on butter with our dirty mistress. Margarine in the shed where it belongs. Where it belongs.

[Dave Anthony]

Where the dirty stuff happens. Yeah. The Coshocton Tribune.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The what?

[Dave Anthony]

Go ahead. Did I say it wrong?

[Gareth Reynolds]

The Coshocton.

[Dave Anthony]

Coshocton. C O S H O C T O N. Koshocton, sure. Is that not a thing anymore?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. Quote. It is dangerous because, quote it is indigestible, insoluble when made from animal fats, liable to be the vehicle for disease, germs, and in the desire to make it cheaply. Improper ingratiates are used by borax, salicylic acid, benzoic acid, glycerin, alum, cow's udders, sulfuric acid, caustic potash, chalk, stomachs of pigs, sheeps and calves, nitric acid, tallow, lard and flour.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, literally, read a bag of Doritos ingredients, you'd be like, yeah, that's pretty much it.

[Dave Anthony]

I know. Now it doesn't sound so bad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, that sounds like a regular bag. Ah, that's pretty good. Not too shabby.

[Dave Anthony]

So, pro butter cartoonists or.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What does he got? He's got poisons and a little bit.

[Dave Anthony]

Of poison stuff over there is margarine being made. And on the right is the butter being made.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And it looks like he's putting.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, he's not putting. That's the factory doing it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, but it looks like the factory's putting cats in the butter.

[Dave Anthony]

And a can and a can and.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A hat and a boot. They basically are like, it's the LA River.

[Dave Anthony]

They just wrote soap up top.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Soap, Soap.

[Dave Anthony]

Soap, fat.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's like, I'm sick of drawing shit. Hey. Hey, Dan, did you just start to write things that were in there?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Soap, fat.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Dicks. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't. First of all, don't write dicks. And second of all, you could draw those things. Clowns. Just draw a clown then. Because most of it is drawn. No, it's weird. It's like you don't have a deadline.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm done. I drew the cat.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know. I don't want to give you that note.

[Dave Anthony]

Pro boater cartoonist drew factories putting all kinds of stuff in a margarine. Soap paint, arsenic, rubber boots and stray cats. Then a bunch of scientific reports said margarine caused cancer and led to insanity.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a nice tactic.

[Dave Anthony]

And then the other attack front was legislation. In 1881, Wisconsin passed an anti margarine law.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Fuck yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Are you from a farm?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I get it, I get it.

[Dave Anthony]

In other states had passed similar laws. Butter and margarine had to be clearly marked.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What they were bullshit. Fucking total bullshit. So one only used for fucking. Hey, we're remarketing it as butter. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

One could absolutely not substitute the demon spread for butter. Farmers. Farmers focused on borrowing margarine, Margarine from the marketplace. Big Dairy pushed Congress to pass legislation in 1886. That included labeling and packaging restrictions and taxes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. So margarine was cigarettes.

[Dave Anthony]

Manufacturers had to pay harsh licensing fees.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What is this margarine money?

[Dave Anthony]

That's like. That's literally. So you're paying a tax.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is your.

[Dave Anthony]

And this is. This would be on it saying that you paid your tax. Oh my God. It's real.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like you still.

[Dave Anthony]

I also got to take Leo margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I got to take my hat off to how patriotic. Our taxes are pretty normal. The eagle loves you.

[Dave Anthony]

So the end result was not much because they're were no margarine cops to enforce what was happening.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We would have that now.

[Dave Anthony]

So Wisconsin passed law, a law requiring hotels and restaurants to post if margarine was sold on the property.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

The state barred the manufacturer and sale of margarine that was colored to make it seem like butter. Wait, did I not mention that margarine is not yellow?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What color was margarine?

[Dave Anthony]

Butter is yellow from plant carotene in the milk of grass fed cows. Margarine was made in the industrial vats and came out white like paste.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

So margarine producers were coloring it yellow and the butter makers screamed that that was deception.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, by the way, butter from corn Fred cows is also pale and commonly dyed so it comes out a pretty butter yellow. But butter makers call this a cosmetic tweak.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, cows are supposed to eat corn. They love the stuff. Nature. Well, that is a. I like. I really do like doing that in front of the cow too. You like the look of that that came out of you? Must I sit here and watch it? Yeah. Look at how juicy the slice is. Gonna spread it all on my toes. Can I please go outside? Shut up. Gonna cuck this cow. You like it?

[Dave Anthony]

By 1898, 32 out of 45 states had passed laws restricting the coloring of margarine. Wow. Some states, like Minnesota, required margarine to be colored pink to show how fake it was.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. That is hats off to them. That's awesome. There you go. How's your pink toast?

[Dave Anthony]

I regret my decision, but the state supreme court ruled the pink laws were unconstitutional.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The pink laws.

[Dave Anthony]

Wisconsin's dairy lobby tried to get a pink law passed, but failed.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Failed.

[Dave Anthony]

Vermont, New Hampshire and South Dakota passed laws requiring margarine to be dyed pink. Others pushed for laws for margarine to be brown or black.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That would have been fucking hysterical. By the way. Australians are like. Nothing wrong with putting a black thing on your toast. It's actually quarter delicacy if you spread it properly.

[Dave Anthony]

Can you make it taste, like, sour and awful.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It is what it is. This is a nice black paste. And when you put it on your taste, it'll be like licking someone's forehead after they've just had a long jog. You like that? It's nice, isn't it? Black, salty. Nightmare spread.

[Dave Anthony]

And the texture's awful.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There you are. How does it taste? Like fucking dirt. Like a fucking salt lick, mate.

[Dave Anthony]

Wisconsin, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Ohio completely banned margarine, but the Supreme Court declared the ban unconstitutional.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The Supreme Court is what is why. Now, hold on a minute. I want to wait a second. Before we start jumping in and talking about how we should not be having margarine. There's a good chance that margarine might just save us a lot of lives. How was work, honey? We're doing important stuff in there, Janae.

[Dave Anthony]

We got rid of those oval tomatoes. Yeah. And margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Margarine. But finally, margarine might have a second life because of me. Also, companies are now considered people.

[Dave Anthony]

That'll work out great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That should be a fun thread to pull.

[Dave Anthony]

I love that that was ever not never actually a decision by the Supreme Court.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait, what?

[Dave Anthony]

It was never a decision.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What do you mean?

[Dave Anthony]

A guy wrote it in the margin of a decision in the margarine. An assistant justice. The guy was, like, writing it up, wrote it, and they are people.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, yeah. It was like, right at the end, they were like, there you go.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, so. So it's never actually. We're just going along with it. Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, you can do that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think that's fine. It seems to be working out pretty good.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so Wisconsin law didn't even make it past their own state Supreme Court. The war on margarine was one of the most contentious political issues of the time. Because margarine could not be stopped. Even with the restrictions, more people began using it, and margarine Production increased from £3 million in 1888 to £126 million in 1902.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What the fuck is going on?

[Dave Anthony]

People love margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

People do.

[Dave Anthony]

Much of that was because you could color it yellow. So big dairy wants more laws.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait, the reason why they liked it was because you could color it the same color as butter.

[Dave Anthony]

Because you can pass it off as butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, so you'd have people over and be like, it's butter. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Or it's just more palatable. Like, it was just a big white slab. Isn't that, like, appealing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Delicious.

[Dave Anthony]

What do you eat? That's a big white slab, Mike.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Podkast the driver.

[Dave Anthony]

So Vermont representative William Wallace grout sponsored the grout.

[Gareth Reynolds]

William Wallace. So you're named after William Wallace. And then what we put in between tiles. Freedom also. Hold on one second.

[Dave Anthony]

The Grout bill, which amended the 1886 legislation. Margarine was now bound by the laws of the state it was shipped from. So margarine that was colored to look like butter was taxed 10 cents a pound, while uncolored was only taxed 1/4 cent a pound. And licensing fees were reduced for sellers who sold uncolored. It took years to get the bill passed and hearings went on and on as margarine producers defended it, saying it was wholesome and cheaper for the working man. It's insane. This went on for.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are they packaging it in?

[Dave Anthony]

Just like regular old packaging?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just like waxy, papery. Yeah, okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Pro butter farmers were being driven out of business. Said they were being driven out of business and said margin was made in horrific dirty conditions. And cried for the cows that would lose their butter making jobs. What would become of them?

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is so.

[Dave Anthony]

What would become of them as they're.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Literally just like cutting their heads off. Think of the cows.

[Dave Anthony]

What's going to happen to them? Well, we're, we're.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Shut the, Shut the fuck up.

[Dave Anthony]

Cutting them up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Shut up. We're worried about cows. Shut up. The cows are smarter than most dogs, which we domestic.

[Dave Anthony]

Margarine makers said margarine was more wholesome than butter and that cows. And that the cows that made butter were diseased and dirty and milked in disgusting barns. And they produced photos to prove it. The marjor makers also brought up the scandals from all the times when dairy sold spoiled butter that had been reprocessed and sold as fresh. They used an 1894 handbook for packing plants that described the horrors to build their arguments. And my God, it was cheap and they cared about the poor. Oh, and margarine had to be colored because even the poor were ashamed to be seen buying it. It would not serve it in their homes. Quote, people while they are poor have some pride and they do not like to go into a store among people who have money and. And buy the article because everyone knows it is Olio they are getting.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

So it's a shame have to go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

In and be like, just.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's like, it's like pulling out food stamps, right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's like using ebt.

[Dave Anthony]

You're like just, oh, look at this margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, it's not animal. No, it's better. It's For. Oh, yeah, there you go.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Anal.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What? That's crazy. I'm crazy, and you're freaking me out.

[Dave Anthony]

The view that margarines for poor people was poor people food made butter more of a status symbol, which would continue for years.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's cool. Marolene. So that's.

[Dave Anthony]

That's a brand.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How did they make a worse name?

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know. How was. How are their billboards for beef tallow now?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, listen, RFK's had a lot of head trauma. Cheaper than butter. More marrow. That's delicious. The last line never gets rancid or sour. Cool stuff.

[Dave Anthony]

So Wisconsin's a big player in pushing the grout bill. And it was true that margarine was the byproduct of city slaughterhouses. So Big butter tells their own horror stories about grotesque conditions in them. And the grout bill finally passes in 1902. And the use of margarine plummets from £126 million in 1902 to 76 million a year later. And the tax made colored margarine cost as much as butter. And licensing fees make it more expensive, at least the shittier grades of butter. So there's this loophole that allows margarine barons to sell large containers of 10 to 60 pounds.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So you can sell, like a P. Diddy amount of it. That's all you can do.

[Dave Anthony]

So shifty retailers could then substitute it for butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Every day in a clay pot. You know what?

[Dave Anthony]

The guy wants a margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, not anymore.

[Dave Anthony]

We sell it by the fist.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

Here you go, ma'.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Am.

[Dave Anthony]

Do you have a container?

[Gareth Reynolds]

There you go. This is terrible decision. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good, isn't it? Thank God for freedom.

[Dave Anthony]

So they just needed to put color in the white margarine. Some began to say a flat margarine tax would stop this cheating. And then they came up with a new idea, a workaround. They sent out the white margarine, but included a capsule of yellow dye with each pound so people could color it themselves in their home.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So go home. And then like.

[Dave Anthony]

That'S exactly right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My guess will never know. What'd you say? Nothing.

[Dave Anthony]

Soon, coloring margin became a common kitchen task.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. I over yellowed it. Sweet God, we need white powder.

[Dave Anthony]

Kerith kids loved it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Loved margarine. Coloring the margarine, coloring the margarine. What the fuck? TV's ruined and saved us.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote. Maxine Clark remembers running into the kitchen with her brother just as her mother started to color margarine, asking, may I stop it? May I stop it?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Stomp it.

[Dave Anthony]

A butter stopper was a special tool. So she watched in fascination as the margarine changed from white to yellow, carefully turning it several times to make sure the food coloring was entirely mixed in. Now, butter stomper is like a. It looks like the same butter churn like thing. It's like a. Huh. But not everyone had a butter stomper. Some would mix the yellow packet with a wooden spatula. Or if their mom wasn't there, some kids would use their fingers.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, fuck. I mean, this whole fucking nightmare just got a lot worse just eating it. That's very good. Could I have a little more?

[Dave Anthony]

There's no way Billy washed his hands. He was just like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I was not playing with the pigs. I feel like in two days we'll be driving and Luke will be like, hey, L. Look what I made. Some van margarine.

[Dave Anthony]

When it was softened from mixing, it still didn't look appealing, but it was a bit improved. One boy said, quote, it was always pretty unappetizing, but it was super unappetizing when it was white.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Gareth the Dollop is brought to you by Momentous. Momentous is creatine. It's not just for building muscle. It's become a daily essential for strength and for focus and recovery and aging for people like me and cognitive performance for people like you who need to pick up their cognitives.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My what?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

And now Momentous is making your daily creatine routine even easier with new creatine chews, which are these little bite sized lemon lime shoes that are delicious. Easy to be consistent with it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

You just chew and go and. And you don't have to drink or do whatever you do with other creatines. You just pop them in your little hole in your face.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, they are great. They are. I love them.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

You get one gram of creapure creatine monohydrate, which is the gold standard. A single source from Germany and nsf certified for sport. That means independently tested for purity and safety and label accuracy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love them. I love creatine. I try to take it every day and they are just. It's way easier, way better.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

So look, Gareth loves his Momentous creature creatine shoes. And right now, Momentous is offering our listeners up to 35 off your first order with promo code DOLLOP. Go to livemomentous.com and use promo code DOLLOP for up to 35 off your first order. That's livemomentous.com promo code DOLLOP. The Dollop is also brought to you by Ridge. Ridge is. It's a wallet situation. It can also be a keychain situation. Wallets can be really a pain these days. They can.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I was using Ridge before we were even started. Yeah, I was. I. My. My nephew and I had a Ridge connection. We were like, whoa. Same. While I love it, it's just. It absolutely is just the only way to go. You just cull the herd, get the things you need, pop them in there. And then the keychain thing is also awesome. Same deal.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

And I had one and my son stole it and he uses it, so I had to get another one. That's how that worked because he likes it so much. And look, you don't have that big brick of a wallet sitting in your back pocket because it keeps things thinner and slimmer. So now we have Ridge 2.0, which is the most refined version of the Ridge wallet. They're not just sitting on it. They're perfecting it. They're making it better all the time.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You could sit on it because it's not a big wallet, so you could actually sit on it.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

It's 10 lighter. They made it more modular and improved with cash straps and money clips and air tag attachments. Yes. That air tag on your wallet? Yes, please.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

So it's made with great materials. Aluminum, titanium, and carbon fiber. You get over 50 colors, choices. It's. It's everything you want in a wallet. And we. We can't recommend it enough. Here at the Dollop, we love it. So for a limited time, Rich is having their huge Black Friday sale. Head to R I d g e.com to get up to 47 your order. This is by far the biggest discount they've given all year. That's ridge.com for up to 47 off your order during the biggest sale of the year. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. And please support our show. You know what you say? Tell them we sent you. Tell them a doll sent you. The Dollop is also brought to you by me Undies. There's something pretty crazy happening about matching outfits during the holidays, right? Something weird, something magical. Weird. Something awesome.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are you pitching we do it, they.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Take them to the next level. Yeah, you and I. I love that. It doesn't matter if you're matching undies with your podcasting partner or you're coordinating your PJs for a photo with your podcasting partner.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Podcasting partner.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Or getting festive with the. The other podcast guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Your podcasting partner.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah, me. Andy's makes it fun. And ridiculously cozy. Their holiday prints, they're adorable, obviously on you. And their fabric is next level. Thank you, Gareth. The best part, you actually want to be caught in matching loungewear all season long.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I. I like being caught.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

When you get caught in matching, that's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I like to get caught.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

So me undies is the go to unbelievably soft underwear and loungewear made from ultra model, which it's a fancy speak for like cloud level comfort. And they got matching sets, festive prints, fun prints. You'll be will be them. You and I are going to be the most coordinated podcasting couple in the country.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nobody's going to be able to touch us. Honestly, literally a figuratively all of it.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

They got from cozy joggers to festive onesies, cheeky undies to cuddle worthy bralettes. There's a cut, color and vibe for, you know, anyone? Everyone?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

And here's the best part. Right now, you can get up to 50% off. Yeah, that's half off, Gareth, if you don't know what that means, that's a holiday miracle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'll take the bottoms off. If I have to take half of it off, I'll take the bottom stuff.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

You have pairs of me undies? Yes. Correct.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Huge fan of me undies. I have multiple pairs, but love them. They're very comfortable, they're great fit and they've. So when you're on their website, you are overwhelmed with how many options there are.

[Dave Anthony]

There really are a lot of options.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

And look, that's why it makes the perfect holiday gift, because there's really just an option for everybody.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like our matches.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah, Like a matching stuff.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We could try to fit in one.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

So knock out all your holiday gifting needs today with me undies. To get exclusive holiday deals up to 50% off, go to Meundies.com dollop and enter promo code dollop. That's me undies.com doip promo code dollop for up to 50% off. The dollop is also brought to you by hydro. Sometimes you have workouts and you finish and you're like, what, did that actually make me stronger? Did that really do anything? Gareth, with hydro? No guessing in just 20 minutes, you're working 86% of your muscles. And with the new hydro arc, you can actually see your progress measured in power, endurance and precision. Every single time you row, Gareth, you have a hydro. I'm getting a hydro, love.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love the hydro. I love the hydro. It is the best workout. Like you're saying, it just keeps track of everything for you. There's so many classes. It's just a slick piece of equipment. Once you start using it regularly, you feel it, but there's no part of you that is out of commission. You can just, you can do it over and over again.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

You can do it all in 20 minutes. You can get a 20 minute amazing workout in and it's right in your house, which is helpful. Working out in your house. You can track your progress with Hydro metrics. It's everything you want in a workout. It just is beauty. So look, skip the gym, not the workout. Stay on track with the new Hydro arc, Hydro's most advanced rower yet. For a limited time, go to hydro.com and use code dollop to get $100 off any hydro rower, including ARC. That's H Y D R O W.com code dollop Gareth we are also brought to you by Nutriful Neutral is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. It's trusted by over one and a half million people. You can feel great about what you're putting into your body. Since Nutrafol hair growth supplements are backed by peer reviewed studies and NSF Content Certified, the gold standard in third party certification for supplements, we both use Nutrafol. I get a lot of compliments on my hair from people in my life. Even people who are in the crowd have said, what's going on with your hair, Gareth? I would say your hair is looking fuller and better.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dave, stop.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

It has, it looks, your hair looks better right now. I want to put my hands in it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't touch me. When I was on the road recently, I forgot my Nutrafol and I wanted it so badly that I ordered road neutrophil. And by the way, I'm not kidding anecdotally more and more people are coming around. More and more people are asking about it, using it because I. People are not. People are like there's a thing now.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

So yeah, so we're both doing it and people are noticing and that's, that's really the, the number one compliment you can get. People are noticing it. So look, see thicker, stronger, fast growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with neutrophil for a limited time. Neutrophil is offering our listeners $10 subscription and free shipping. When you go to nutriful.com the dollop find out why Nutriful is the best selling hair growth supplement brand@ Nutriful.com spelled n u t r a f o l dot com the dollop that's Nutriful.com. the dollop.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1910, the Daily Northwestern, a paper from Oshkosh, published a how to guide to idea and apprehend margarine moonshiners.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Holy butter leggers. Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote, Their capture has often attended with as much danger as that so long associated in the public mind with the capture of the daring mountaineers who manufacture and sell whiskey. So they're saying that butter. Sorry, margarine moonshiners are as dangerous as people who.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

You know.

[Dave Anthony]

Bootleg whiskey.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure, of course. Yeah, they go great together.

[Dave Anthony]

Anyway, the paper described a margarine raid.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A margarine raid.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote, an internal revenue agent reinforced by other officers rushed into the place where the oleomargarine trade was carried on and found four men there, their arms bared and smeared with the coloring matter which they were using to convert the white oleomargarine into yellow.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I cannot believe we are in butter New Jack City. Why are those women topless? Look.

[Dave Anthony]

The men were let go by a judge who said that while they were probably not all using the three pounds, three thousand pounds of margarine for their families, there was also no one fucking judges this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now while I doubt they will use £3,000 for supper.

[Dave Anthony]

Your honor, I also use it for sex, as we all do. There was also no proof of illegal sales. So they let him go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So the judge was just like, I don't know where it's going. All I know is that these men, they were caught in a big system. They're pawns in the butter game.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1910, margarine came back strong due to new developments. Hydra hydrogenation or the hardening of vegetable fats.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'll tell you what you take kids fingers being in it. I'm listening.

[Dave Anthony]

You don't want that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I don't want that.

[Dave Anthony]

The hardening of vegetable fats was invented around 1900.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I think that whenever I see like anything where someone's like my kid and I are making cookies for you, I'm like, I'm not fucking eating that Sally. And I baked them. I'm like, yeah, well. Nope. I. No, I'm out. You. That's a child picking it snow. It's horrible.

[Dave Anthony]

This is awesome. Cuz I me and I wiped my.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Ass with my hand and made cookies. Cool.

[Dave Anthony]

Absolutely not a song.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Happy Holidays.

[Dave Anthony]

Not a song.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Kidding me.

[Dave Anthony]

Did Ms. Rachel sing that one?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, it's a Ms. Rachel.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. I mean me and Finn made you cookies every year for I'm not.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And the. Yeah, no, good for you. I'm glad you guys had a montage together. Keep me out of it. I'll have some intimates. Thank you very much.

[Dave Anthony]

So the hardening of vegetable fats made making margarine out of vegetable fats possible. Also, federal food laws had improved the conditions of meat bagging plants. And margarine makers started using oils that made margarine yellow. The.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The color thing is.

[Dave Anthony]

So it's all. It's all. It's all. So the rich people are using yellow butter and the poor people can't afford it, Right. And they want to be able to be like, I have butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right? Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But it's a Gucci.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, Right, Yeah. So they could just say it was natural, making it exempt from color taxes. Right. So now there's a vegetable addition so it can look yellow. Now, on top of that, they introduced one and two pound packages of margarine that included a packet of coloring stuff so you could color it easily at home according to taste.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just bag massaging your space. Butter need the bag.

[Dave Anthony]

Easy color.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Always, always the housewife. My life's the worst, but at least I can make this yellow finally.

[Dave Anthony]

Go to work.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Not possible.

[Dave Anthony]

I had dreams of being a scientist.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's right. I read books all day and my head's full of knowledge. But Doug comes home drunk and demands his butter yellow. Do my own taxes. Why no, no, no. I'm not allowed my own bank account, but sweet mother of fucking God, I could take Valium all day and squeeze this weird yellow bag. You know, life under house arrest can be pretty banal and boring, but thank God I can now get a two pound bag of goo and stress ball my way out of all the problems. Gender prison for sure. But at least now this bullshit can get yellow.

[Dave Anthony]

How many women were just like, son of a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, honey, someone beat the out of the margarine and it's not even yellow. Hey. The yellow powder's organized into little lines with a dollar bill rolled up next to it. The been going on in here. There's something I gotta talk to you about. Get the goo. Get the lube goo.

[Dave Anthony]

Now, Big Butter wanted the packet of color outlawed, but it never was. Oh, also I mentioned before, Big butter colored the butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Big butter colored the butter.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, butter was being colored.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So butter was colored too?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So margarine is trying to be the color of a fake butter.

[Dave Anthony]

Colors sometimes vary due to the season and the cow based on what the cow ate. So they gave the butter a little bit help to adjust the tint to yellow. But that's legitimate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's okay.

[Dave Anthony]

But yellow margarine, deceptive, right? But also, quote, we are not concerned in the least about the final outcome of butter if given a fair chance to compete with margarine. Oleomargarine masquerading as butter does not provide competition but substitution. In 1915, the University of Wisconsin released studies showing rats fed milk fats were healthier than rats fed vegetable oils.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Fucking. Those rats are like, I don't know why they captured us, but this fucking rules.

[Dave Anthony]

I know, right? They're just like, so you guys are gonna be drinking a lot of milk.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okie dokie. Hey, they put an ear on my back. I don't know what to tell you, Andy. I. Sucks to be you. What are you guys doing? We're eating cream all day. What the fuck?

[Dave Anthony]

So hordes Dairy Magazine celebrates hordes H O A R Diamond Butter Hordes Hordes Dairyman magazine celebrated and published an article with an illustration of fat happy milk fed rats besides crazed unwell vegetable oil fed rats.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What? I can't, I understand doing rat tests. I mean, I don't love it, but I understand doing it. And now you're like, rats are our spokespeople.

[Dave Anthony]

It's their retort. So they, they, they had a picture of happy milk fed rats besides crazed unwell vegetable oil fed rats.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I can't, Sorry.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not a retort. It's, it's, they're, they're pushing the point now. They're driving.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. They're like, these rats are so happy.

[Dave Anthony]

It's literally fucking 20 years after they, they just will not stop.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Anthony]

The margin industry began to consolidate. And now with a few big manufacturers, they would fight back better. Also using soybeans and cottonseed. More states now joined the margarine fight.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can let it go.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, no.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I cannot believe margarine survived this.

[Dave Anthony]

We're only getting started. Oh, fuck Wisconsin. You guys are out of your mind.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Prove it.

[Dave Anthony]

Margarine stopped trying to compare itself to butter and created brands that stood on their own like Parquet Mola and Blue Bonnet. And then came the Great Depression.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh boy.

[Dave Anthony]

Margarine was cheaper. So people had resisted it, now started using it. And December 1931, angry Wisconsin farmers protested outside the capitol building. So the state legislature passed more laws to protect dairy farmers. New licensing fees for makers and sellers of oleo margarine. More taxes on uncolored margarine. And then colored margarine was completely banned. Another tax in 1935. But it didn't matter. People were coming around to margarine when World War II came, so did food rationing. Now people had to use margarine for the first time. FDR's head of the Federal Security Agency, Paul McNutt, was a, was a former governor from a soybean growing state, Indiana.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh boy.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote, he put the squeeze on butter and gave Olio the green light to take over. Now marjoram is showing up in popular cookbooks. After the war, it was over. Margarine was a normal thing to find in a kitchen. In Wisconsin, though it was mostly for cooking and still called white butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I gotta say, I'm not loving the way we're using it now. White butter. Jesus Christ. They're out in the streets with tiki torches. White butter. White butter. Shut the up. We will not be replaced. Oh my God. How did they do this? Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

The National, national association of Margarine Manufacturers educated customers about the nutritional qualities. How are they doing that folio? Well, what about promotional materials and pamphlets like Taking the Mystery out of Margarine. This, this pamphlet was eight pages about margarine's ingredients and step by step, directions for coloring and molding margarine. Great book.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Eight pages in a page. I'd be like, buddy, do you know what a pamphlet is?

[Dave Anthony]

It's great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Shocking.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, look at what I can do. After the war, federal restrictive laws were repealed. But it was also a years long fight. Now the can was kicked back to the states, but without federal support, very difficult. So states began repealing color laws. Oh, most. Now it can't be.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We did that. We did that before. We. Civil rights. We were like black people. Like, oh, awesome. Like, well, hold up, hold. No, not you. I think you got the wrong idea. No, we're talking about spreads.

[Dave Anthony]

But without federal support.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Very.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, sorry. Most taxes stayed because it was a source of revenue. Between the 1920s and 1950s, butter consumption in the US declined by 1 third while margarine sales quadrupled. Those fuckers can't stop it. But Wisconsin refused to change. One could not buy colored margarine in the state. Yeah, the federal minimum wage was 75 cents and the tax on olio was 15 cents a pound.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Holy. You got to really want it. Nobody would want it that much. It's a tariff.

[Dave Anthony]

So people in Wisconsin started buying margarine on the black market.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. Why?

[Dave Anthony]

Because they wanted it. I don't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, at this point we want it now because it's like hidden.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know. It wasn't just illegal to sell colored margarine, it was illegal to use it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Use it.

[Dave Anthony]

It was okay to possess it, but you could not use.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's like Colorado's mushroom laws in the 90s. You could have it and they're like, what do you. What are y' all planning on doing with all that modern tonight?

[Dave Anthony]

Nothing. We just got. It's ornamental.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How come that one guy can't look us in the eyes? What are you doing, sir?

[Dave Anthony]

He's blind.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, that's sucks. All right, you guys can go. Just don't be spreading it on nothing or using it. So you swear to God you're just going to go home and not use it?

[Dave Anthony]

Nope.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're going to just. You wanted to have it.

[Dave Anthony]

Just have it around.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And that's just to look at.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. For Christmas, we'll decorate the tree with it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You'll put margarine on your Christmas tree?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That kind of disgusting.

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I guess I gotta take your word for it. I don't know what else I can. Really?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is a pretty stupid law if you think about it.

[Dave Anthony]

Yep.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, go ahead. Want some?

[Dave Anthony]

It's okay to have. No, you just can't use it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. That's the whole.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't. I don't know what I. Huh? No. I don't know what I'd do with it.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, you have it around.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What would I do with it?

[Dave Anthony]

Have you ever seen, like, plastic fruit in a bowl? Yeah, like that. But it's margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You just have it on your table to never use.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I said you're free to go. I'd really rather if you just left, honestly. This is really like. Just go, please. You're free to go. That's like my polite way of saying leave.

[Dave Anthony]

Just one little cue.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't wanna.

[Dave Anthony]

There you go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I should have never taken that first grab of butter, that first taste of margarine. Little did I know my life was about to change. You were supposed to pick the kids up from school. I told you. I don't even remember that.

[Dave Anthony]

What the fuck are those? Helicopters. A few people were given margarine consumer permits so they could leave legally. Have it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. What's that for?

[Dave Anthony]

So you could leave legally. Have it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why?

[Dave Anthony]

So you could legally use it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

For what? Who the fuck gets a pass?

[Dave Anthony]

You get. You get a consumer permit.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You get to what?

[Dave Anthony]

For margarine. Go into the margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are we in or are we out?

[Dave Anthony]

You go in and you're like, hey, I really. I got to. Medically, I got to. Medically, I got to have.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's got a medical margarine. License.

[Dave Anthony]

I got a condition and if I don't get, you know, margarine every day, I'm done.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He has glaucoma.

[Dave Anthony]

I got glaucoma. I can't see. I get all blocked up. I need to keep everything lubed and just kind of run.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We use it for fucking. Just give us the pass.

[Dave Anthony]

I put in the rass.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Stop it. Why do you always go one step further? Doesn't matter.

[Dave Anthony]

I just like the. You know, I like to yell that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

You know, I like to yell it and I apologize. I love you, Gladys.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't believe someone went aww. Someone's like, now that's nice that he said he loved you.

[Dave Anthony]

Just yelled 30 seconds ago. I put it in her ass.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I thought it was disgusting until he said he loved her. And then it became a love story to me. Putting the butt in butter.

[Dave Anthony]

So people were given margarine consumer permits so they could legally use it. But every pound they bought was recorded and reports were sent quarterly to the Department of Revenue.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What the fuck? It seems so not worth it.

[Dave Anthony]

120 permits were issued in 1954. If one was found with illegal margarine, it would be confiscated. But the entire situation is absurd because the Department of Revenue wasn't going to raid houses or inspect kids school box lunches. A court was not going to convict anyone. So margarine. Margarine smuggling became a daily part of life in Wisconsin.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What in the. Why?

[Dave Anthony]

Meanwhile, it's like. It's very popular nationally. Former first lady Eleanor Roosevelt made a commercial for good luck margarine in 1959.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She's.

[Dave Anthony]

Margarine is cheaper. So she's like, people should use margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She's a part of. I liked her until that. She's an enemy now. I used to really like her, you.

[Dave Anthony]

Know she killed her husband.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What?

[Dave Anthony]

It was.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are you talking about? No, she didn't.

[Dave Anthony]

Didn't she?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

Jamie, can you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jamie.

[Dave Anthony]

No, Jamie cannot pull up. Jamie here. Jamie, can you check to see. I read this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, he had a heart issue.

[Dave Anthony]

No, she killed him. I just read this on the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Actually, Joe, that was AI.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, come on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that was.

[Dave Anthony]

She was bad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No know.

[Dave Anthony]

She was bad. Come on. Another mothership. I'm doing a set this Friday.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, you're not. I just looked it up. You're not even on the website.

[Dave Anthony]

I think I am. What's going on?

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's debunked on that.

[Dave Anthony]

So it was just mailed. So people are mailing margarine from other states.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's just. What the Is this gooey letter? What is this?

[Dave Anthony]

It was labeled Oleo Handled with Care. If a neighbor. If, like your neighbor in Madison went on a trip, they'd bring back margarine for other families. Like, they'd take care of the whole block.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's exactly what I do with new Glarus when I get back to California. Like 80 spotted cows. I'm like, I got the margarine. Savor every fucking drop boys.

[Dave Anthony]

They would pack their trunks with cases of margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Excuse me. Do you old ladies have margarine in your trunks? No, no, no, but don't open it. Don't open one fucking piece of it.

[Dave Anthony]

Pig.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Excuse me.

[Dave Anthony]

What?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You leave it there.

[Dave Anthony]

Ma', am. I'm just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You open that truck, you're gonna see some shit you don't want to see.

[Dave Anthony]

Ma'.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Am.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's right. You just leave the trunk alone, all right?

[Dave Anthony]

Ma', am, I was just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm wearing margarine on my. I mean, regular butter on my head.

[Dave Anthony]

What?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You'll have to excuse. Excuse Phyllis. She's hammered. She is shitfaced right now.

[Dave Anthony]

They won't know if I want. If I go home with this big pound of butter on my head.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She's really shit faced. She had a lot of gin this morning with our butter breakfast. Now move on.

[Dave Anthony]

You move on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's. We're on the same team.

[Dave Anthony]

You okay?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Phyllis. Phyllis, it's me.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Hi.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, he just started threatening me like I was the cop.

[Dave Anthony]

You son of a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I gotta get her back.

[Dave Anthony]

Don't you touch my margarine. I'll fucking cut you. By now, even farmers were using margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, man.

[Dave Anthony]

Margarine. Margarine smuggling got really hot along the Wisconsin border. And border stores and gas stations stocked up and advertised that they had margarine inside.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So it really was like when you would, like before, if you're in a state where weed's not legal for some stupid fucking reason. And the second you cross the border, they're like, hey, wait here.

[Dave Anthony]

You know what this reminds me more of? It's the states that don't have fireworks in the states that do. That's what this reminds me of. Because you. If you like, cross. I don't know if it's still the same, but used to cross from like North Carolina and South Carolina.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, yeah, there would just be. Yeah, well, you can get as many fireworks as you want here, but no weed.

[Dave Anthony]

Can you still not get weed here? That's weird, because you guys kept the fucking margarine illegal until, like, the fucking 90s. So you're a pretty normal state.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We don't want to get burned again. Baby steps. But instead, we have tobacco that you can color green.

[Dave Anthony]

In the 1960s, the Wisconsin commissioner of taxation estimated some gas stations by the state line were selling 1 ton of margarine per week.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. What the fuck? It's just because it's off limits at this point. Yeah, people are just like contraband.

[Dave Anthony]

South Beloit was the epicenter. The town of 4,000 was selling more than the city of Rockford, which had 130,000 people.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So that's like the margarine haven.

[Dave Anthony]

Store owners happily told anyone that even clergy and farmers were coming to buy margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, even farmers coming here to get their shit from us.

[Dave Anthony]

Even the priests are coming down.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Here you go. Take a spoonful of that. Tell me you're not riding the dragon. Right there, my lady. There you go. You like the taste of that, huh? Melts in your fucking head, doesn't it? We got a room if you needed to come down over there. We got some rugs laid out there and some pillows. Walk through those beads over there. Lay down. We got some nice lighting in there. Don't worry. Just remember, you're part of a bigger problem and a bigger solution. We're all interconnected. Go in there, trip your. Go. Trip your tits off. Ma'. Am. Have a nice day. Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

Wisconsin was now losing out on tons of tax revenue. And you know, it's really dumb. Between 1945 and 1961, there were six attempts to overturn margarine laws, and all failed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

Minnesota.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think it's time to stop wooing.

[Dave Anthony]

That time was a long time ago. We're out of our minds.

[Gareth Reynolds]

1961, we're like, yeah, why are you doing it?

[Dave Anthony]

Don't know.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's your plan? Ain't got one. It's bad for you.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It still don't.

[Dave Anthony]

Minnesota repealed their laws in 1963.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Look what it said to them.

[Dave Anthony]

Wisconsin was now the lone state with margarine illegal. Now Democrats were on the side of repeal and Republicans on the side of keeping the margarine laws.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, that might change your feelings about it.

[Dave Anthony]

The same arguments were made. Pro butter peeps said margin was a fraud and a color lie, and that butter was the wholesome American way to go. The pro margarine people were like, look, this is fucking stupid.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You both have very compelling arguments. The pro butter only people. Obviously, you're very into butter, and we Understand that? But then the pro margarine people also raise the point. What the fuck? What the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you like this? Who hurt you? What the actual fuck? Are you out of your minds? Were you dropped as children? Jesus fucking shit Christ. Get your heads out of your buttery bottoms.

[Dave Anthony]

Also at this time, research indicated that margin was better for heart disease.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We choose to have our hearts explode.

[Dave Anthony]

I want to go down with the butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

These colors don't run and these arteries don't pump. Sorry to do this to you. No, thank you.

[Dave Anthony]

I'll be dying at 54 like a good Wisconsin man.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Thank you.

[Dave Anthony]

The biggest butterman in, in the state senate was James Earl.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't wait to see the size of this man.

[Dave Anthony]

There were literally no pictures of him. I had to look in the papers to find.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

He grew up on a farm. He led farm co ops and organized the 1931 Anti Margarine Demonstration at the Capitol which he rode to a seat in the legislature. He, he was, he was essentially elected because he was anti margarine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He was elected.

[Dave Anthony]

And so it's 30 years later and he's still there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's still there and he's like, he's like McCarthy with the red scare, but for butter. Senator, please stop. Stop what? Butter is better.

[Dave Anthony]

He's now on the Senate Agricultural Committee where all margarine law repeals went to die. There was also state Senator Gordon Rosie Leap, Gordon Rose Heap Rose Leap roselyap Rose Leap.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay?

[Dave Anthony]

A veteran crazy anti commie guy who was very anti margarine. He combined his anti commie hate with margarine hate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Whenever Imagine like trying to align yourself with him. Be like, it's Jesus Christ, dude. That's the whole thing. That's why we got to keep butter pure.

[Dave Anthony]

Why is that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because the Soviets, these motherfuckers, you don't understand. They hate us for our fucking freedoms, which is why we can't have butter.

[Dave Anthony]

Whenever a pro margarine bill was introduced, he would amend it to allow its sale as long as it was colored commie red.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dare I say, I think that was the right level red. It's called red spread and I think it's pretty good. Yeah, you like that, huh?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There you go. And nice.

[Dave Anthony]

Democratic Senator Martin Schreiber was from Milwaukee and he was pro Margarine. And on June 23, 1965, he came up with the idea of a taste test.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ. This is. Oh, boy.

[Dave Anthony]

He had fellow senators try the two while blindfolded.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now, Senator, pressure on these Senators.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, Senator Leverage declined to take part.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I invoke the Fifth Amendment.

[Dave Anthony]

But Rosalie did.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Uh.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, the vast majority idea.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He just keeps going. Look, I'd like another sample now. That one, please. Again, One more over there. We're running low. Come on, give it a better. Not without its charm. This one over here, please. There. I say I don't hate it, but I don't trust it. You know, we'll just start doing. Oh, that's nice. Oh, yeah, that's good.

[Dave Anthony]

Whoa. Senator.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right. I plead the fifth.

[Dave Anthony]

The vast majority IDed the butter and margarine correctly, but the one who didn't was Senator Roselyn. He said the margarine was butter. And when he. When he learned he was wrong, he said the samples came too quickly and he didn't rinse his mouth between tests.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I was. That is so funny. I didn't rinse my. I. I was unable to. I don't know why. He's always southern when it comes to. Of this stuff. And I was unable to rinse my mouth properly. They stole at the but. Plus, I pounded a lot of butter even prior to the taste test. I was house and butter on the drive over here.

[Dave Anthony]

Just. Just in the. And a stick.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I was. I'm what we call an alpha. Oh, yeah. I was butter. I was stick pounding the whole drive. I like to say I drive a stick, but she's an automatic.

[Dave Anthony]

From earlier. He also said the samples came too quickly. And the editor of the Pro Butter Capital Times wrote, quote, the farmers don't need enemies when they have friends like Roseliep blustering and blundering through the legislature. And the front page is discrediting their cause.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a career ending. Taste the spoonful. I've never regretted more by RoseLIep.

[Dave Anthony]

20 years after RoseLIep died, his daughter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

His body was exhumed.

[Dave Anthony]

God damn, it's all butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's just a fondue. Mother of God.

[Dave Anthony]

Anyway, let's get in there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Anyway. Absolutely. Get your bread in there. He's very.

[Dave Anthony]

20 years after. 20 years after he died, a daughter revealed his wife had been secretly substituting Marjorie because of his health. So he. He'd been eating margarine for years, and he thought it was butter because margarine is better for your heart. At least that's what they thought then.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is such a betrayal. How fucking dare she. She's here tonight.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1966, redistricting came and Leverich lost his seat, which was a big blow for butter. The governor said he'd support a Realistic margarine repeal bill.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is so. This is like what people think Wisconsin politics is like in other states. Like, what do you do? Just fucking debate theory all day? No, but the governor was like, it's time to take a long hard look at our Butlerload.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1967, the color ban was removed, but a tax of 5 and a 1/4 cents was kept to end. And then in 1973, that ended. It didn't have much of an effect on farmers. The sky didn't fall. Everything just kind of went on as it was. To this day, Wisconsin. In Wisconsin, restaurants are still forbidden from serving margarine instead of butter unless a customer specifically requests it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I wouldn't if I were you.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, congratulations. You're out of your minds.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're out of your mind. Oh, sir. Yeah, you are.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm the right one. You're not all weirdos.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No. Get out of here. Go yourself. Boy, that is a shot. That is the most Wisconsin story we've ever done here by far. And I feel in the room there's still a lot of people are like, screw you, Dave. Your take is wrong.

[Dave Anthony]

You were right on that one. And margarine should not be.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's this. He did it.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, his wife did it. Really.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no, no.

[Dave Anthony]

He was. He. He was right to. Him. He thought it was butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I hadn't even really made that connection necessarily. I thought she was like, mixing it into stuff. I didn't even think. He was like, may I have another spoonful? She was like, jesus Christ, Gordon.

[Dave Anthony]

He was only. He. He was eating margarine, thinking it was butter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's good. Butter is delicious. How good does it slip down? It slips down. Great. My sweet prince. My buttery, buttery king. May you live five lifetimes. He passed away already? Oh, fuck. Shit. All right, well, whatever.

[Dave Anthony]

How about the guys who were on the border for like 10 years, we're just like buying houses and putting in pools.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, that. But that's like.

[Dave Anthony]

And all of a sudden, it just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

One day was gone. They're like, no, but it's like those trend hitters, Those are those. Like. It's like the guy who like, opens a vape shop right away, like, bingo. You know, he's like, I got 10 years of this shit.

[Dave Anthony]

The sources. The Olio Wars, Wisconsin fight over the Demon spread by Gary Stray.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Demon spread is so good. How the fuck is there not a margarine called Demon Spread?

[Dave Anthony]

Right? Like the day and make it red. The day. The day they made it legal in Wisconsin. I'm selling Red demon spread.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Red Demon spread butter. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Sentient Media History of Margarine Plant based battles. National Geographic. The Butter Wars. When marjoram was pink.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That guy, that guy was like, someday some guy's gonna read this book.

[Dave Anthony]

It's gonna happen.inverse.com. america's forgotten war on Margarine. The Telegraph Courier and the Koshoctin Tribune.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Well.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, well, well. I guess the only thing to say is rip. To the greatest senator in this state's history.

[Dave Anthony]

Yep, yep.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We miss you, Gordon Rosalien.

[Dave Anthony]

Butter forever, buddy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We hope you're up in those buttery clouds right now weighing them down and you still have no idea that your wife was margarine poisoning you for half your fucking life. Thank you guys so much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Hey, dollop fans. I know you love the dollop. You love listening to the dollop. Do you want to watch the dollop? You're like, gareth, what are you talking about? By the way, it's not Gary, it's Gareth. Well, we have partnered with Lakeside Animation and we are starting to animate some of our episodes. So if you want to go watch a five parter animation, which is actually like a 22 minute episode or 30 minute episode, I can't remember, of the rube, you can go to LakeSide Animation on YouTube and watch a really awesome animation of the rube. It. It really genuinely kicks ass and we're very proud of it. And the more you share it, the more you give it to people, the more you follow Lakeside, all that stuff, the better chance we have of making a lot more of them. We're already making a second one, so go there and watch the rube.