711 - Early Baseball Mascots

Summary

The Dollop Episode 711: Early Baseball Mascots (December 2, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode of The Dollop, comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds dive into the origin and evolution of baseball mascots in America. Starting with the word’s roots in French opera, the discussion quickly shifts to the bizarre, often exploitative, and sometimes dark history of mascots in early American baseball. The episode explores how superstitions led teams to employ children, animals, and people with disabilities as lucky charms, highlighting the intersection of sports, culture, racism, and ableism through jaw-dropping true stories. True to the Dollop formula, Dave provides the historical narrative while Gareth reacts with irreverence and comedic banter, making for an engaging and thought-provoking listen.

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Key Discussion Points & Notable Segments

1. The Origin of the Word "Mascot" (00:16–04:01)

• Background: The term "mascot" originated from the 1880 French opera La Mascotte, which popularized the idea of a person (specifically a chaste woman) bringing good luck.
• Transition to the US: Brought to America, “mascot” morphs in the sports context and rapidly loses sophistication:
  • Dave: "So the words in the Scott slot because...because of the opera. The word finds its way to America and we make it really stupid. The sporting Life." (03:37)
• French roots and American adaptation:
  • Gareth: "We'll have a white guy do brown face. He'll put on war paint." (03:54)
  • Dave: "Hey, that's the good version of what I'm about to go into." (03:59)

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2. Handsome Dan & John the Orangeman: Early Animal and Human Mascots (04:06–09:19)

• Handsome Dan (Yale’s Bulldog):
  • Earliest known team mascot—an actual dog.
  • Ongoing tradition: There have been 18 Handsome Dans.
  • Dark joke: “They kill them if they lose.” (04:41, Gareth)
• John the Orangeman (Harvard):
  • Irish immigrant who sold fruit to students and became a campus legend.
  • Speculations he sold more than just fruit; possibly liquor on a dry campus.
  • "He made so much money doing this that he was able to buy a three-story house in Cambridge." (08:06, Dave)

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3. Mascots as Boys, Goats, and ‘Lucky Charms’—Early Baseball Superstition (09:19–16:07)

• Boy mascots: Boys like “Chick,” who carried bats and ran errands, believed to confer luck.
  • Quote: “The players pin their faith to Chick’s luck bringing qualities.” (10:12, Dave, quoting Sporting Life)
• Goats and other animals: Teams start bringing goats onto the field for good luck.
  • Gareth mocks the randomness: “Well, we got a goat.” (10:42)
• Mascots as expendables:
  • “If teams did well, they would keep the boy or the animal around. If they started to lose, they cut the kid loose.” (15:03, Dave)
  • Parody dialogue of street urchin mascots being abruptly abandoned: “Get one of your other street urchin buddies in here.” (15:44, Gareth)

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4. Exploitation and Prejudice: "The More Outcast, the More ‘Lucky’” (19:09–24:36)

• Mascots chosen for being marginalized:
  • “There seemed to be different versions of it, but it sounds like Ty Cobb had run across... Harrison before a game and he liked him.” (20:56, Dave)
  • Discusses Ty Cobb’s racist legacy and relationships with mascots.
• Racist, ableist superstitions: Teams often preferred mascots who were orphans, had disabilities, or were minorities, reflecting the intersection of superstition, exploitation, and systemic prejudice.
  • Dave: "Very disturbing place that America seemed to have the belief that the more socially outcast someone was, the more his worth was as a good luck charm." (23:59)

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5. The Story of Ulysses Simon Harrison (‘Little Rastus’): Race and Dehumanization in Baseball (19:54–47:16)

• Harrison’s journey: Black orphan picked up by the Detroit Tigers, becomes personal mascot for Ty Cobb, is treated as a magical token.
• Objectification: Players rub their bats on Harrison’s hair for luck (28:03–29:05).
  • Dave: "Rubbing black people's head is a very subtle and passive way of being disrespectful or condescending." (28:41)
• Disposability and resilience: When the team’s luck fades, Harrison is discarded, then joins the Cubs as their mascot, adding a layer to the sports rivalry.
  • “He promises the Cubs to put a curse on his ex friends. And the Cubs take him in.” (44:10, Dave)
• Afterlife: Cobb brings Harrison home to work as a domestic servant—layering what Dave and Gareth call almost "slavish" overtones (45:04–46:05).
• Complex feelings: Dave reflects, “My feelings on this are so complicated because it’s horrible—but he just made $2,000. He was never going to make that as a kid.” (47:32)

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6. The Humpbacked Mascot: Louis Van Zelst and the Philadelphia Athletics (50:04–58:45)

• Louis Van Zelst: A child with severe physical deformity due to an accident becomes the A's celebrated good luck charm.
• Team traditions: Players rub his “hump” for luck before games.
  • Gareth lampoons superstition: “They are celebrating...watching them rub that big old back of that child there, believing there’s a genie inside of that hump...” (55:56)
• Humanizing moments: Despite the exploitative context, Louis is valued for his personality and is integrated into major events, like wedding invites and team photos.
• Tragedy: Louis’ health fails and he dies young, his condition never properly addressed or treated (78:15).

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7. The New York Giants and Charlie ‘Victory’ Faust: Mental Health and Mascot Exploitation (60:09–74:38)

• Charlie Faust: Mentally challenged man convinced by a fortune teller he would lead the Giants to the pennant; becomes their “mascot” and lucky charm, cheered by crowds as he mimes participation.
  • “When Charlie was with them in uniform, they won 36 and 2…” (64:36, Dave)
• Desperate for a real role: Charlie, believing in his destiny, pressures to actually play and is eventually allowed a brief token appearance.
• Downfall: As scrutiny grows about his exploitation, he is dropped by the team and eventually institutionalized before dying young — reflecting on the grim fates awaiting such mascots.

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8. The ‘Humpback Arms Race’ & More Exploitation (Phillies, White Sox, Dodgers, Yankees) (82:00–90:33)

• Arms race for lucky mascots: Teams begin actively seeking mascots with specific disabilities, believing it will affect their fortunes.
  • "Baseball teams think they need a human being with a specific physical deformity in order to be good at baseball." (82:47, Dave)
• Brief, tragic lives: Often children with disabilities, like Eddie Bennett, rise to brief fame as mascots and then struggle deeply when discarded.

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9. Modern Echoes: The 2004 Boston Red Sox & Nelson de la Rosa (91:32–92:42)

• Pedro Martinez and Nelson de la Rosa: Even in the 21st century, similar patterns recur—Red Sox embrace a little person as their “good luck charm” in their legendary streak-breaking run. Pedro later dismisses their bond as “just a trick”; Nelson dies two years later.
  • Dave: “It is 2004. They did the...I mean, besides having him as a bat boy, they didn’t do that. But they had him there in the clubhouse all the time.” (91:59)

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10. Reflection & The Moral Mess of Mascot History (94:53–End)

• Ongoing exploitation: Despite (some) progress, the hosts reflect that America is still a hard place for people with disabilities. Discussion of instances of exploitative “mascot” dynamics in recent decades.
• Gareth sums up: “I think what...if there is a healthy enjoyment factor that is consented to in a way that feels on the up and up, then I guess, whatever. But...punching down versus just sort of having elevating someone’s life experience, I guess.” (95:24)
• **Dave compares it to modern freak shows, child actors, and societal neglect.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American innovation:
  "The word finds its way to America and we make it really stupid." — Dave (03:37)

• Superstition gone wild:
  "At this point, it's mostly just boys and animals...if teams did well, they would keep the boy or the animal around. If they started to lose, they cut the kid loose." — Dave (15:03)

• On trashing the mascots:
  Parodic dialogue as players cut a child mascot:
  “Get one of your other street urchin buddies in here.” — Gareth (15:44)
  “You should have made sure we won.” — Dave (16:14)

• Racism on display:
  “The Detroit News wrote that Cobb was, quote, the Ethiopian's main defender and patron.” — Dave (39:10)

• On superstitions involving disability:
  “There seemed to be different versions...but America seemed to have the belief that the more socially outcast someone was, the more his worth was as a good luck charm.” — Dave (23:59)

• Dark humor on mascots as talismans:
  “Hey, look, we need a mascot.” — Dave (52:18) “No, we have one.” — Gareth (52:50)

• Gareth’s summary of exploitative logic:
  “It's kind of like being a child actor to some extent. It's just sort of like, hey, you had a hell of a run, but you know, this is... This will end and you're lucky.” (79:48)

• Modern resonance:
  “In 2004...Nelson de la Rosa becomes the Red Sox good luck charm...It is 2004. They did the...I mean, besides having him as a bat boy, they didn’t do that. But they had him there in the clubhouse and all the time.” — Dave (91:59)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:16 – Origins of the word “mascot”
• 04:06 – Handsome Dan and John the Orangeman stories
• 09:19 – Boy and animal mascots, early superstitions
• 19:54 – Ulysses Simon Harrison (Little Rastus) and Ty Cobb
• 28:03–29:05 – Bat-rubbing ritual
• 44:10 – Harrison “curses” the Tigers and joins the Cubs
• 50:04 – Louis Van Zelst and the Philadelphia A’s
• 60:09 – Charlie Faust and the Giants’ “magical thinking”
• 82:00 – Mascot “arms race” for children with deformities
• 91:32 – Nelson de la Rosa and the 2004 Red Sox
• 94:53–End – Reflections and ongoing exploitation

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Tone, Language, and Flow

• Comedic but critical: Dave’s deadpan historical narration anchors the episode, while Gareth’s incredulity and improvised dialogue heighten both the humor and the exasperation at the absurdities and cruelties of history.
• Candid discussion: The hosts wrestle honestly with the discomfort and moral ambiguity of their topic, especially regarding racism and ableism.
• Rich, satiric banter: Gareth often breaks into exaggerated “mascot” voices or mock play-by-plays, lampooning the bizarre logic of superstitious teams and offering commentary both dark and playful.
• Purposeful digressions: The hosts detour into modern parallels, personal anecdotes, and wider societal critiques—tying the past to the present.

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For New Listeners

This episode offers a fascinating—and sometimes unsettling—account of how sports superstition, societal prejudice, and exploitation intersected in the heyday of American baseball. The hosts’ blend of history and comedy draws out both the absurd and tragic, making it both educational and entertaining (if at times jaw-droppingly dark). Those unfamiliar with The Dollop can expect a blend of research-based storytelling, irreverence, and sharp cultural critique.

If you want to hear how a French opera created a legacy of baseball teams seeking “luck” from marginalized kids and animals—and what that says about America—this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

Hey. Oh, wait, you're listening to the dollop.

[B]

My mom came into the kitchen today, hiccup so loud that it scared the out of me. She's like, I'm sorry.

[A]

This is an American history podcast or each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to a dweeb.

[B]

Gareth Reynolds. Not a dweeb. Who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. Not at all. A dweeb. Cool guy.

[A]

Hey, hey.

[B]

Guy who reads all the time calling fucking other guy a dweeb. Nah, the roles are dweeb. Cool kid.

[A]

Number one, you're not a kid, you're a middle aged man.

[B]

I'm a teenager.

[A]

And number two, I'm a.

[B]

In this relationship, I'm 100% number two.

[A]

You parked cars as what when you were a teen, what were you wearing? What were you wearing?

[B]

You're gonna ballet park shame me.

[A]

What were you wearing?

[B]

A tutu, dweeb. Do you know how many girls would put their numbers into my tip slip? Slit slit. Shame my tip hole. Women would put their numbers into the tip hole.

[A]

But what's a tip hole?

[B]

The anus.

[A]

1880 France. The French opera La Mascot opened. Mascot was a fairly new.

[B]

The French what?

[A]

Mascot. La Mascot. It's an Oprah.

[B]

The French opera. Okay, gotcha. By the way, the way that you were like, it's an opera. Complete dweeb.

[A]

Mascot.

[B]

What a dweeb answer. It's the opera.

[A]

At least it didn't get under your skin.

[B]

I'm fine, dude.

[A]

Mascot was a fairly new French slang word derived from the term moscoto, which means spell or bewitchment. H. It was someone.

[B]

A witch.

[A]

It was a gambling term mostly. And about having a good luck charm.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So at first it was used for items like trinkets, but the writer decided to make Maskote a person like a mascot. Gareth, you are smart. The opera was about an Italian farmer, Rocco, who struggled to grow crops. And his brother, a successful farmer, sent him a new worker, Bettina, who was a keeper of turkeys.

[B]

This is Bettina. She's got turkeys. A post.

[A]

Post Thanksgiving episode.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I forgot we already had the day of. You know, I stopped saying Happy Thanksgiving this year to people.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I just. Have a good week.

[A]

Yeah. Rocco did not read a letter his brother had sent with Bettina and it said she was a mascot and mysteriously brings good fortune to whom she's connected.

[B]

This is in the opera.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

As long as musk remain pure and chast, their power continues pure and ch. They're only virgins.

[B]

You don't bang your mascot.

[A]

Can't fuck your mascot.

[B]

Don't bang.

[A]

The turkey lady still goes today. Do not fuck your mascot. I've made specifically talking to Philadelphia fans.

[B]

Have made some big errors.

[A]

So. So the only versions and Rocco's fortune turns around with her there.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The plot goes on, local ruler takes her, etc. And then it ends with her getting, you know, getting the sex.

[B]

The masshole.

[A]

Yeah. Now she's not a mascot anymore.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So the words in the Scott slot because. Because of the opera. The word finds its way to America and we make it really stupid. The sporting Life.

[B]

It'll dress up like a chief.

[A]

The sporting life will be chase and New York Times.

[B]

We'll have a white guy do brown face. He'll put on war paint.

[A]

Hey, that's the good version of what I'm about to go into.

[B]

Thanks France. I can only imagine.

[A]

The Sporting Life in New York Times described the new phenomena that was happenings. Teams started taking on good luck mascots or mascots. It is not certain who the first mascot was, but it was believed to be Handsome Dan. Handsome Dan, of course, is a bulldog. Oh, that belonged to someone in the YALE Class of 1892.

[B]

Oh, right.

[A]

And they started walking him on the field before games.

[B]

And it's an actual bulldog though.

[A]

Yeah. He's still the mascot today of yale. There's been 18 handsome dance.

[B]

Christ.

[A]

They kill them if they lose.

[B]

They're dying at quite a clip.

[A]

Oh yeah, I guess they are.

[B]

Well, when did yale start so.

[A]

1892. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, no, that.

[A]

No, that is.

[B]

I mean, bulldogs aren't going to live the longest.

[A]

They live at. They're supposed to live at least 10. Right.

[B]

Sure. Then that.

[A]

Then that's under.

[B]

Okay. I mean.

[A]

But also they're being taken care of by students who.

[B]

It's also a stressful life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In front of. I mean, and if you.

[A]

If they lose, they beat you.

[B]

Yeah. And every. And then. Yeah. If you lose. Well, every time. Every losing season, they eat the mascot.

[A]

And then you also have to know that you've gone. You're at the same school as some of the most horrible people in history. Bushes and.

[B]

And.

[A]

And Kissingers and so on and so forth.

[B]

I'm sorry, am I the only one who wept at Dick Cheney's funeral? Yes, recently.

[A]

Yes. You are actually tough. Watch.

[B]

A man died.

[A]

Hover. Harvard. Harvard. Harvard had John the Orangeman.

[B]

Oh, listen, John.

[A]

John was an Irish immigrant. Actual guy. He's an actual guy. He's an Irish immigrant who watched a football game or practice. And then after offered to get the.

[B]

Players water, what I needed to. Are any of those guys thirsty?

[A]

Game. Can I get you some liquids?

[B]

Would some of you like to hydrate a little bit?

[A]

And so he did. And afterwards they passed a hat. And he got. He collected $2. Whoa.

[B]

That'll go a long way for me. Thanks, gents. This is what we call symbiosis.

[A]

And then someone, one of the players, someone said if he brought fruit to their rooms later, fruit tip him more.

[B]

Well, that's a bit of an escalation, isn't it? All right, suppose I will. What are you after? And he did just bring up some. If you bring us all pineapple later, we'll give you more money. Okay.

[A]

And this is how he began to make a living.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Selling fruit to students out of a basket. Going into dorms and. And onto ball fields.

[B]

Okay. So he. Right. So he kind of like the first hot dog guy. Yeah, it's watermelon apples.

[A]

The class of 1881 bought him a hand cart quote. They wanted to give him a. A darn key. That can't be right.

[B]

Dorm key.

[A]

A darn key too. But. Oh, this is in his language. They wanted to give me a turnkey too, but I'd be afraid the faculty make a row about having them in the yard.

[B]

Oh, they wanted to give him a donkey. But the faculty. Might be best that they have a donkey. Yeah, well, the faculty wanted to get me a donkey. Oh, boy.

[A]

So the yard manager at first refused to let the handcart in, but students kept petitioning until the school relented.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

John is still the only person who has ever been allowed to sell in the Harvard yard.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Still there.

[B]

Exactly what you're like.

[A]

So John, after a while, getting older. And in 1891, they bought him a donkey in a cartoon because Too much of a load.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was a fixture. Games and base. Baseball, football. Selling fruit. The football team brought him to their away games. And he made so much money doing this that he was able to buy a three story house in Cambridge.

[B]

Oh, my God. No.

[A]

Times have changed.

[B]

Yeah. Honestly. Do you like a better fruit? Well, pardon me. That he goes home to a butler. Hello, Orange John. Get out of my fucking way.

[A]

There is a staged. This is where there's a staged picture. There's a painting, a staged painting of John with a student drinking. And there's bottles on the ground around them. It's a dry campus. So some people wonder if John was selling More than fruit because it's a dry campus, and I think the whole area is dry at this time. So maybe that might explain way more sense.

[B]

Hey, can I get some of that old timey fruit?

[A]

I suppose she wants tonic with that.

[B]

Here you are. Yeah, he's just handing people oranges just with, like, beers in them. There you are. Can I get an orange special?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There you are.

[A]

Would you like a nana?

[B]

Yeah, that's exactly what it would be. Don't peel it all the way down. Just sip from the bottom.

[A]

So the Dixon Baseball Dictionary says the first use of mascot in print was in a 1883 issue of the Sporting Life about a boy named Chick.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Chick carried bats and ran errands for the players of the Pottsville anthracites.

[B]

Do you have any idea what an anthracite is?

[A]

I forgot to look it up. Yeah, anthracites are a kind of mineral that. So I believe it's in the area they're probably mining for anthracite.

[B]

You being for real?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You.

[A]

The players believed that Chick was a good luck charm. And as Sporting Life quote, the players pin their faith to Chick's luck bringing qualities.

[B]

What a nightmare. You let us down today, Chick. Yes, you completely us today, Chick.

[A]

And they hit him with a bat. How?

[B]

I don't know what I did wrong.

[A]

I'm just a boy.

[B]

If we lose a fourth in a row, we're going to take it out of your ass. Wait, what?

[A]

Being one of the most read sports papers in the country, this story led to more mascots around the country. A year later, it was reported in the Cincinnati Inquirer that a local team now had a goat wandering around the field.

[B]

It's just like they really missed the mark a little bit. Quote, well, we got a goat.

[A]

The goat was probably looking for show bills, oyster cans, or some other usually palatable dish for his stomach. But the audience could not see it in that light and thought he was a better mascot than the old time favorite.

[B]

The old time favorite.

[A]

Who knows a boy or something.

[B]

But they had, like, a goat wandering the field eating from oyster cans.

[A]

People loved it, by the way.

[B]

Bringing a can of oysters to a game.

[A]

Oh, no. That's the best way to watch a game.

[B]

Don't agree.

[A]

No, I like to bring any kind of canned fish.

[B]

Y' all want some oysters? There you go.

[A]

This game's just getting going.

[B]

You don't need a fork. Use your finger. The oyster water will clean your hand. That's a. That is a natural, and that is A. That'll get. That's antibacterial.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

Well, I don't know, but I'm drinking the finger juice when everybody's done grabbing. Hi, I'm Uncle Caesar. I'm not legally allowed to be at this field.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Is there more to it than that?

[B]

Not really, but I got a bunch of cans of oysters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I got a lot of stories.

[A]

Oh, actually, we don't need to hear the stories.

[B]

Good. I don't have any, but I do drink the finger oyster water at the end.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There you go. Put your hand in there.

[A]

No.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

It's just weird. Now I feel uncomfortable.

[B]

I'm terminally ill.

[A]

Okay. Here we go.

[B]

Yeah. I'm actually quite healthy.

[A]

I have literacy figures.

[B]

That's fine.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Oh, that was nice.

[A]

Okay, stop. In 1886.

[B]

What? My wife passed away. Okay. Yeah. Not too long ago.

[A]

All right.

[B]

But I've decided to date. Okay.

[A]

Cool. Yeah. It's actually a conversation.

[B]

Oh, no. Some dribbled down my shirt.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't mind it a little there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can see my belly button hole.

[A]

You act like that's a bad thing. But at the time, at the time, at this time, oyster. Oyster smelling men were probably a catch.

[B]

Literally. He's got it all.

[A]

So in 1886, the Sporting Life wrote about the Browns baseball team's mascot.

[B]

Oh, we're getting close. Danger.

[A]

Little Nick is the luckiest man in the country and is certainly the Browns mascot. This was actually the first time the E was dropped from a Scot.

[B]

Okay, so now we're mascot.

[A]

And the New York Times later that year dropped the extra T when writing about Charlie Gallagher, who was a boy mascot, who was, quote, said to have been born with teeth and is guaranteed to possess all the magic charms of a genuine mascot.

[B]

Nope, not born with teeth. Wrong.

[A]

How do you know?

[B]

I know. Does that didn't happen.

[A]

It sounds like he had a beautiful smile.

[B]

Hello. Hello, everybody. So I guess mascot was feminine because.

[A]

It had, I think so.

[B]

Or the double of the double consonant and the E, which is feminine.

[A]

And they probably also just didn't want it being Frenchy.

[B]

That's what I mean. But the word, the actual French one, would be considered a feminine word. So when you're conjugating the verb, you would keep that in mind.

[A]

Okay. Whatever you think, dweeb. In Chicago, the team was led out onto the field by a band. Followed by little Willie Hahn.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

Who carried a huge broom on which the words our mascot were painted on.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

This place is Filthy.

[A]

They couldn't figure out how to make a sign.

[B]

Hey, this place is really dirty. Oh, boy. I'm gonna be sweeping all night. This is awesome.

[A]

Although it could be.

[B]

Who's he the mascot for? Is he the Browns mascot?

[A]

Chicago. So probably the White Sox. But also in baseball, if you sweep. Yeah. If you want two games, it's considered a sweep when you win all three. So people will bring brooms to the stadium?

[B]

Yeah, he always had one.

[A]

Yeah, I've. I've got several brooms for that reason.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, 17. But at this point, it's mostly just boys and animals. That's. That's the. The majority of mascots. Boys and animals, sure. And if teams did well, they would keep the boy or the animal around. If they started to lose, they cut the kid loose. Or the goat or goose or whatever it is.

[B]

Sure, I keep the boy around. You mean like the boys like staying in the locker room? My parents are wondering where I am.

[A]

We are at the time of orphan trains.

[B]

So it was like, best case scenario for an orphan.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Thank God. We won five in a row. I'm gonna go sleep in the shower, boys. All right, Gus. Hey, look, we lost two games.

[A]

You're out, kid.

[B]

Get out of here. What?

[A]

Get one of your other street urchin buddies in here.

[B]

No. Please. I've grown. I've been spoiled.

[A]

Tough. Cause we lost.

[B]

No, but I've become soft on the inside of the stadium.

[A]

Well, you shouldn't have, because this was always your favorite.

[B]

I literally had nothing to do to influence over the cane.

[A]

Kid, baseball is a game of streaks. Sometimes you win a bunch. And we love having a kid around. Sometimes you lose a bunch. Kids gotta go.

[B]

But I have nothing. You'll be sending me to my shirt. I'll be 100 killed if I go back out.

[A]

You should have made sure we won.

[B]

Look, we're gonna kill him now.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

All right. See you later, kids.

[A]

Hit him with a bat, Chuck.

[B]

Bam.

[A]

The mascots, they're no joke. They weren't like today's mascots. They were taken very seriously.

[B]

I can't even wrap my head around what that means.

[A]

The 1888St. Louis Brown.

[B]

Quiet. The Bulldogs here.

[A]

Team photo included a boy in uniform and two dogs. That's. That they considered the team.

[B]

I mean, is there a harder picture to take with the camera technology back then? Christ. These dogs and the boy. Wow.

[A]

They're all credited. They're in the.

[B]

So he gets a ring in the.

[A]

Yes, in the team description, they're all credited as being part of the Team.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

The team's nickname was the World Beaters, so they probably considered these good luck charms to be an integral part of their success.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And it wasn't just teams. Sometimes players would pick their own personal mascot.

[B]

Fucking amazing. That should be that. I've never heard anything on this show that should be brought back more than players having their own personal mascot. Let's go.

[A]

I'm surprised that hasn't come back, actually.

[B]

Like, to have on your payroll, like, this is my personal assistant, my attorney, my agent, my mascot. Just like, some guy with, like, googly eyes, like, hanging over. How are you? Great to meet everybody. We're excited to be a part of the family.

[A]

I didn't put it in here, but Babe Ruth had his own boy mascot.

[B]

Oh, Ray Ray.

[A]

Yeah, He's a little kid.

[B]

How are you? Can you imagine what that kid saw? Mr. Ruth, you orgasmed again.

[A]

Can you do me a favor? Uhhuh. Can you never say orgasm again?

[B]

Why? Cuz. You know what I'm saying.

[A]

I just don't want you to bring up the.

[B]

You know what I'm talking about though, right?

[A]

I don't want to talk about it.

[B]

Okay. It's like HP and Mayo.

[A]

No, we're good.

[B]

Okay. Do you know the sound it makes?

[A]

Stop. In 1900, players were giving money or whatever to boys outside the stadium. So they, like. Because they're. Like I said, there's all these kids living on the street, right? So they'd, like, give them. Toss them some change or whatever to get the kid to smile. And sometimes if a kid like. Like they liked him, whatever, they'd be like, look. Look at this good luck charm. And bring him into the stadium. We.

[B]

I can't even.

[A]

You're saying it's a better time?

[B]

Well, no. I can't even imagine how this country has functioned this like. But they're so how did it just make it like. It just is crazy for there to. For you to just be like, why, this boy's a winner. Come on in and watch a ball game with me, boy.

[A]

Now, like I said, we're talking about the time of Orphan Train. So there's a shitload of street urchins just living around with no homes. So it's kind of a match made in heaven. And you're helping the kid out, right? You're giving him some food or whatever.

[B]

This is a pedophile's dream.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I. Can we be honest?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is a pedophile's dream. This is like.

[A]

You're talking about just America or Are you talking about this part of America?

[B]

This part of America? America. Well, clearly America too.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's. It's. Yeah, but I would say that's my good luck charm.

[B]

Get in the van.

[A]

I would say that about every sex crime at the time.

[B]

What?

[A]

That it's. Yeah, it's all on the table.

[B]

Yeah, but this specifically to just be like, which team do you support? Neither. I just love boys.

[A]

In 1908, a 10 year old orphan named Ulysses Simon Harrison was living on the streets of Chicago. And Harrison was a black kid, okay. And he apparently sought shelter in the stands during a Detroit Tigers game in Chicago.

[B]

Sought shelter, okay.

[A]

And the team went on a winning streak. And naturally they thought it was because of young Harrison.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And on July 4th, the Detroit Free Press reported, quote, Detroit is carrying with it a mascot bat boy, an ebony hued pick called Rastus who is picked up by Schaefer in Chicago. He will have a home as long as the present streak lasts.

[B]

So much bad brain. Can't use joke. Yeah. Oh my God. He's got an ebony hu to him. And he'll have a home as long as the team doesn't ever lose. There.

[A]

There seem to be different versions of it, but it sounds like Ty Cobb.

[B]

Had run across oh God.

[A]

Harrison before a game and he liked him. So let's, let's briefly talk about Taob because the last time I brought him up, everyone flipped. Not everyone. There's a bunch of people that get more upset about if you besmirch a baseball player than like, anybody else. So Ty Cobb had a biography written by a guy who hated him, and he made up all this shit, making him seem racist. And then another guy. And so that was the, that was the take on him for years. But then another guy wrote a correction, right? A history guy. And he was like, no, he's not. But they both went too far in their general directions.

[B]

Okay, so he was just the right amount of racist. For those of you wondering, Ty Cobb was the right amount of racist.

[A]

And the guy like you is like, well, his dad was for, you know, civil rights and stuff. And it's like, yeah, but his dad also beat him. Like, so you can't take from that, that like, he believed the same thing his fathers did.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But. But he, he sounds very much like a racist of the day, not an overwhelming racist. Also, a lot of guys on his team hated him. And so. So he's a very complicated person. I'm never going to do a dollop on him because I think that there's so much out there that's just bullshit.

[B]

Well, let's just say on behalf of the show that, you know, we. We would like to apologize because Ty Cobb was the appropriate amount. Amount of racist for the show, and we embrace that, and that's great.

[A]

So Ty Cobb is the one who took a liking to young Harrison.

[B]

This black kid's. Okay.

[A]

And nicknamed him Little Erastus.

[B]

His name was Ulysses.

[A]

Ulysses Simon Harrison.

[B]

What's going on?

[A]

Probably after the president.

[B]

But why we call him Rastus?

[A]

Well, okay. Rastus is an incredibly offensive name for African Americans, going all the way back to a character named Brer Rastus in the first uncle remus books in 1880, Uncle Remus books were collections of stories from the deep South. And by this time, Rastus was commonly used to depict a jolly, docile slave or a happy black man. They just. This is the. This is the good version of.

[B]

I just. God, you imagine if white people had the history in this country that black people had, the Karen. The Karening that would be taking place every day. Oh, my God. And calling a kid that.

[A]

Well, Rastus at that time is a very common name in minstrel shows. Me America that.

[B]

You don't need to say anymore. Just put an exclamation point after that.

[A]

Very disturbing place that Erica seemed to have the belief that the more socially outcast someone was, the more his worth was as a good luck charm. Is that not good? Bring it back. We are better than eugenics. Across the country, people with humpbacks.

[B]

Buddy.

[A]

10 minutes in the hunched back as it is. Dwarfism, crossed eyes. Those with mental illness were seen as talismans. So good luck. Good luck charms to have around.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

Doesn't it seem like some really perverted, disturbed sense of charity?

[B]

Well, yeah, it's. It's almost like in America, you. Back then. Because I'm like, now, it wouldn't matter. But back then you'd be like, well, look, I hope this kid's either normal or really abnormal. That's the only shot they got. Don't make them, like, pretty bad. Make it, like, impossible. Then maybe they could be a mascot for a traveling team.

[A]

And then, of course, in with this, they threw black people at Native Americans.

[B]

Which is also amazing to be like, but this is. He's a very tiny man, and this woman has a hump. And this is a black man. They all are horribly afflicted.

[A]

So this belief in America and really a lot, obviously the. A lot of the black part of it was in the South. So this was of Course taken up by baseball teams. The same attitude. Although there aren't as many baseball players from the south at this point. That reversed because now many are from the south. So Harrison becomes the team's mascot. But even so he's like Ty Cobb's personal mascot. I guess Cobb would bring him food.

[B]

He.

[A]

He would endear himself to the team by running errands for players. So they. They let him become the Tigers bat boy and mascot. And he's just in the clubhouse all the time.

[B]

That's also really weird. I mean, can you imagine what a child sees in a clubhouse? And that Crazy. Like just crazy crazy. Now you want to see me drink a beer with my dick.

[A]

They let him sleep there after games. Crazy because he's homeless. Crazy. But so that's nice. Actually it is.

[B]

But also what?

[A]

And when they went away on road trips, they let him stay in the clubhouse.

[B]

So this kid just like lives in the clubhouse for like nine days alone? Sometimes.

[A]

But better than being an urchin on the street.

[B]

Oh, so crazy though.

[A]

It's. It's gradations of terrible.

[B]

Yeah, I mean but he's doing like home alone clubhouse.

[A]

So they immediately lost when they went on a road trip. So they decided to start bringing Harrison on the road trips too.

[B]

That now you know, the road trips.

[A]

Are worse by the way.

[B]

Crazier.

[A]

In all the researching I did in.

[B]

This story, you see, I can her because I paid her. You understand, little boy?

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah, because I gave her money. She let me have sex with her.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And we got a big double header tomorrow. Do me a favor, get the butt ragged.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, I was racist until you became my boy. They can make a salad after me.

[A]

So when I researched this, this is. This drove me crazy. So everyone, when they talk about this story, they still call him little Rasmus instead of his fucking name column. Harrison. Well, you can, you can actually call him by his actual name now because it's, I don't know, 20, 25.

[B]

You know, we've of abandoned this whole language thing you're after. So I don't know what you're going for exactly, but. No.

[A]

The Detroit News quote, when Schaer went to bat in the fourth, he rubbed his bat in the darky's hair and then singled.

[B]

I can't. I just. You know what we need?

[A]

What's that?

[B]

Day of shows. You just got to text me. Like if we're going to go in this direction, just like a code, just text me what we're going to be dealing with on a scale of 1 to 5. Jesus Christ. He rubbed it in his hair, so.

[A]

He got a single. So other players then started rubbing their bats on his hair before they went to the plate for good luck.

[B]

He's the Apollo Log.

[A]

Rubbing black people's head is a very subtle and passive way of being disrespectful or condescending.

[B]

So condescending.

[A]

But I would say this is not. Well, for the time, probably more subtle than normal racism.

[B]

But, yeah, because they're like, he's got lucky heads versus, you know, like.

[A]

But, you know, even still in this day, people are like, can I touch your hair? No, no, you don't. Don't do that. That's a human being.

[B]

Did you ever see that video where Mitt Romney is taking a picture with a group of, like, black students? I can't even remember this. Like, maybe when he was running for president. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[A]

I think I remember this.

[B]

He just goes. He just goes, who let the dogs out?

[A]

Oh, yeah, because he's from Utah.

[B]

Not only because he's from Ute, but, like, that. We should have stopped America.

[A]

Then I've been like, all right, let's wrap it up.

[B]

Let. Well, just have a meeting. We need to have a big meeting.

[A]

Garrett the Dollop is brought to you by Rocket Money. Don't cry, Garrett.

[B]

Oh, Dave.

[A]

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[B]

There's a Packers one. There was one for weather. Yeah, we could go on and on, but it happened. Yeah.

[A]

And I get them all the time because I sign up for stuff, and I forgot I signed up for it. The thing, you're like, oh, I'll sign up for it now, and then I'll cancel it in a week. And then you forget about it.

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Yeah, you're forgetting about so much stuff. It. It. It's a red flag. Go ahead.

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I may have signed up for three months of AFL subscription because I wanted to watch one playoff game.

[B]

It sounds like a red flag.

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[B]

I'll just do it. Just so, just so, just so we have it. Just so we have it. You want to save some pocket money? Well, buckle up. Use rocket money.

[A]

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What is the ad we're doing which.

[A]

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been taking that creatine. Now see, creatine isn't just about muscle building and stuff like that. There's also some cognitive stuff with it which I just looked into.

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Creatine has this thing where people think it's just for muscles. There's cognitive effects. I gotta be honest, Dave. I love the creatine chew so much. The chew is so easy because you should do it every day and just makes it so easy. Just grab one. You know how life is. There's no time for anything.

[A]

I tried it. I tried to put it under my armpit. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't melt in.

[B]

So what's your deal? You don't understand anything.

[A]

Look, it delivers exactly one gram of a crea, pure creatine monohydrate, which is the gold standard single source from Germany. NSF certified for sport. Gareth uses it. Gareth loves it. Don't put it under your arm, though. It's not for armpits.

[B]

You're the only guy who's talking in that world, in that space.

[A]

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[B]

To your parents, your grandparents, whatever. You seem like a time traveler. Yeah, it's that good. You know, we're talking about people who came up in the, like, put the pictures in your wallet time. So this is future stuff.

[A]

I mean, it's the perfect gift because.

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You load the pictures up, you show them how to do it. I mean, the aura frames, the way it works is that you put a bunch of pictures in there and they just keep rotating to them.

[A]

It's magic.

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In the past 10 years, it's my mom's favorite gift that I've given her.

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[B]

We love it. I am currently on the road, and I literally was thinking last night about how excited I am to get home to my bed. I like my shoulder hurts. I just want to get to my bed.

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I can tell you your bed is super comfortable. And I think for the Past four nights.

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Stay on message. I will sue you. Helix. We both got the California ducks. Lux, we took the quiz.

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I'm not just sleeping in your bed. I'm doing other stuff.

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What?

[B]

Do us a favor. What? Tell them the dollop sent you.

[A]

What are you doing?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

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Not the face. It's not growing the face out, but the top of my head. Very much like a wild animal.

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And people are talking about Nutrafol more and more. More people I know are asking me about it.

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[B]

Oh, touching.

[A]

Touching black people's hair. Yeah. Yeah. It went on until they were like, so I'm gonna kick the shit out of you now.

[B]

What a great turn that was. But what are you so mad about? I'm doing what we do.

[A]

But it still happens. Like, you can go on tick tock and see, like, black people being like, don't touch my hair. What are you doing? Like, it's still a crazy white person thing. But Ty Cobb refused to rub his head. He didn't want to do that.

[B]

Got to be racist.

[A]

No, he didn't do it because he thought it was. He legitimately thought it was wrong boy. Now, despite how wildly racist this all is, Ty Cobb and Harrison are very friendly and close. The Detroit News wrote that Cobb was, quote, the Ethiopian's main defender and patron.

[B]

Just can't.

[A]

I just. The fucking Detroit News was so racist at the time. Like, I can't, like, what are you doing? What are you doing?

[B]

What are you doing? I don't think we're allowed to be talking about this stuff anymore, sir. What?

[A]

Cobb would sneak Harrison into his hotel room when they were on the road and would hide him under his bunk. He made sure Harrison was never found in the hotel. It was considered particularly good luck to have Harrison sleep under your bed.

[B]

This is so up.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

That is so crazy.

[A]

But again, if you want to have.

[B]

A good game, get this boy under your bed.

[A]

Well, some. He did sleep under a pitcher's bed. And the guy threw like, a one hitter.

[B]

Dave, shut up. And also, I'm not kidding. The kid probably heard some. Some really weird. Without question, without question.

[A]

That's so awesome.

[B]

They were drinking on the road. He was just like, you sleep under my bed. She's like, oh, my God. Yeah, give it to me, Ty. Give it to me. Give it to me. Almost squirt it. Almost squirted.

[A]

I'm gonna squirt it.

[B]

Oh, my God, there's a boy under your bed. Of course there is. We got a game tomorrow, you idiot. What do you think we're gonna do?

[A]

I mean, you come.

[B]

Didn't I? What are you talking.

[A]

You came.

[B]

I won't hit a bunch tomorrow.

[A]

That's on him.

[B]

That's a boy. Before I.

[A]

You.

[B]

I rubbed my. On his head.

[A]

Oh, Jesus.

[B]

All right, you're right. That one went way too far.

[A]

What's wrong with you? I agree.

[B]

I retracted.

[A]

You were just the guy saying this is all too much, and I didn't.

[B]

Mean to do that. I apologize now.

[A]

After a while, Harrison began to feel it and, and feel how awesome this was again. He could be living on the streets. Yes. And against the player's wishes, he would go to the lobby and strut around in front of the black bellhops telling them that even. Even though it was illegal, he's staying in the hotel.

[B]

Jesus Christ. How old. What age are we talking right now?

[A]

He's a kid. He's like 10 or something. Or 8. He's like really young.

[B]

I'm staying in the rooms.

[A]

He's a child. He's like, hey, I'm staying in the room, man. Yeah. It's crazy. This is all crazy. This is insane. Cobb was also known to hide Harrison in a locker or take other measures. Protect. To protect his good luck charm. So if he didn't want another player to take him or whatever, or to. Why are you looking like that?

[B]

It's ab. This is. This is maybe the worst thing that's happened in America.

[A]

Like after the pitcher threw the one hitter or whatever it was, Cobb wouldn't let the guy have. Would let him sleep under the bed anymore. And that guy's.

[B]

Come on, dude. Come on.

[A]

Baseball players are very superstitious. They always have been. I know, but like, they won't share. They won't change socks if they're getting hit.

[B]

You seem weird tonight, Mr. Cop. What's going on? You slipped under that picture.

[A]

What?

[B]

You slept under the pitcher's bed and he had a no hitter. And then I didn't have a very good team. Why would you sleep under his bed when you're supposed to sleep under my bed? I'm sorry. Look, I want to be exclusive. What? Only you and me. You're mine. Do you understand? Uh huh. Okay, so you only sleep under my bed. You sleep in my locker. Do you understand? All right, okay. Sorry. I didn't mean to get mad at you, man. If he wants to get his own black mascot boy, he can.

[A]

Someday.

[B]

I feel like this trauma is going to be really difficult. For me to explain to someone, I'll be dead when that happens, so I don't give a shit. Now get under my bed.

[A]

Anyway, as the team kept winning in 1908, they attributed it to the young black kid and rubbing their bats in his hair. But then in September, they start to lose.

[B]

What did you start washing your hair, boy?

[A]

And their lead in the standings shrinks.

[B]

Get out of here.

[A]

And Cobb goes into a hitting slump. They had also started to suspect that Harrison was taking balls and bats and equipment to sell on the street. So they cut him loose. They tossed him out like an old pair of shoes.

[B]

This kid is gonna be so lost.

[A]

No different than, like, re entry is.

[B]

Going to be quite difficult.

[A]

Literally. No different than like having a pair of cleats you wear every day because you're in a hitting streak. And then you start stumping, you throw the cleats away. Literally the same thing. But it's a child.

[B]

How do you even tell him? Well, boy, look, we've been doing pretty bad, so you're gonna have to go back to just being homeless.

[A]

Well, Harrison's no fool. Harrison goes straight to the Cubs, who the Tigers are going to end up playing in the World Series. And Harrison promises the Cubs to put a curse on his ex friends. And the Cubs take him in. And then they Crush the Tigers 4 to 1 in the world Series.

[B]

Wait, the Tigers went to the World Series? And they were like, you weren't. So they did fire him and got better?

[A]

No, they were already going to the World Series. They were in first place, but their lead was shrinking and they were falling apart. But they still made it, being first.

[B]

Place and being like, get out of here. Get out of here. Wow. Okay. So that he jumps smart.

[A]

But during the off season, Ty Cobb brings him to his home in Georgia.

[B]

Absolutely crazy.

[A]

Work as a domestic servant, which is what you do with children.

[B]

Oh, my God. What?

[A]

Oh, wait, that sounds bad. Does it?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

That sounds almost slavish.

[B]

What year is this?

[A]

This is 18. Oh, this is 19. Something. 19. Eight or nine? Eight. 1988.

[B]

I just. Look, I know you crushed us at the World Series, but I'd like you to come work at my house for me. I'm 11.

[A]

I mean, it may not have been. From all sounds of it, Ty Cobb was. He really liked the kid.

[B]

It's. I understand that, but even then. What the is going on right now? Mr. Cobb, I'm real sorry. Don't be sorry. You did great with the Cubs. Come live at my house and be a servant. Okay? Good.

[A]

So Harrison was. Well, what if they didn't do that? So I think. I know the thinking might have been like, if we don't do this, he might just be gone after the summer when we come back again.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So. Or I mean. I mean, after we're gonna go. He could just end up on the streets and gone. Like, who knows? He's a street kid. He's been up on an orphan train.

[B]

I mean, mascot for hire.

[A]

So he was.

[B]

If I were to join the Cubs, I would put a curse on the Tigers. This organization is not full of idiots. We'd love to h you.

[A]

So Harrison is allowed to rejoin the team for the 1909 season. I bet that was because of Cobb. That. That would be my suspicion.

[B]

Look, I checked him out all summer. This kid is not cursing us this year. He's been nothing but good luck.

[A]

He was great in my house.

[B]

You should see my apple tree.

[A]

He didn't spill anything.

[B]

My apple tree has been awesome.

[A]

The team wins again. They go on to play in the World Series.

[B]

By the way, I wear them in a Bjorn now full time.

[A]

Now they go on to play in the World Series again.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But at that point, Harrison is just now one of many mascots because when they get to the World Series, they have six mascots. They have casting two other boys. One who. One who's a black kid who became the chief mascot. What the. And then they have, like, a goat and, like, dog.

[B]

That clubhouse is like, this used to be a lot better.

[A]

There's like a monkey and a giraffe.

[B]

Sorry, I was actually. I was sleeping. That's my room. What? That's where I am. Hey, if nobody's going to use the showers, we're going to wash the goat.

[A]

At the end of the season, at the team banquet, Harrison was given $64 in donations, which is over 2,000 today. So now what? Like, now what what? My feelings on this are so complicated because it's horrible. But he's also. He just made $2,000. He was never gonna make that as a kid. He was fucking on the street living. It's fucked up. The whole thing's fucked up.

[B]

America is a prison. So essentially, do whatever you can to get yours. So, yeah, hats off to him, but still within that. Can we just flip the goddamn table and draw up some new rules? But, yeah, like, back then, like, like, great, good for him. He made two grand the weird way, but that's all America is. It's just like, you know, that's it. That's. That's What? That's what we face all. That's what we think about all. Like, the. The idea of even trying to. Like, when do you stop wanting to make. I mean, I hate everything that this country has become, and yet I'm also like, boy, I got to make as much money as possible because this is a show.

[A]

That's right. Right. That's what this is. Exactly.

[B]

So, by the way, I need to get a boy.

[A]

Yeah. So Harrison was brought back again in 2010, but he only lasts.

[B]

2010, sorry, 1910.

[A]

He only lasts until June when he's fired again after he was known to work for a bit as a driver for an Ash hauling company. Gareth, he's like 11 or 12 or something. But then I found an article in the Detroit News. They reported on June 30 that he'd just been fired or was no longer working at the Ash hauling company. So he lasted under a month as a driver.

[B]

Can't put him back in regular society, quote, unquote. Do you understand?

[A]

What do you mean? He's not.

[B]

You're not gonna see the Philly fanatic, like, working in an Arby's and be like, boy, this guy doesn't. Really doesn't understand how to get sandwiches.

[A]

Just cooking, that would be amazing.

[B]

You know, where would the. Where the. Do you think a fired mascot is going to go? Especially at that age. Tell you what, you know what, Pull over up here. Bernie Brewer. You just. You have no clue where you're going.

[A]

Now. 1910, Connie Mack. He is today considered one of the best baseball managers of all time.

[B]

But have we talked about him before?

[A]

I believe he's coming before. Yeah. But until 1910, he had not won anything really. He had been managing for 12 years. He had a couple of first place showings, but nothing beyond that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But then Louis Van Zels came along. Now, Lewis was born in 1895. His fish physical issues starting started at the age of eight. His brother said it began when he was on a wagon and fell off and his lung collapsed and he almost died.

[B]

That is the number one killer of children under 10 is Wagon Lung. These kids are falling off these wagons. It is an epidemic.

[A]

After that, his growth stunted and his torso grew twisted too big for his short legs.

[B]

But he's just trying to picture this kid.

[A]

He was. I can pull up a picture.

[B]

What's his name?

[A]

He was Louis Van Zelst. He was. He was very a smiling, happy kid. Everyone liked to be around him. He was. He just had a. He had one of those personalities.

[B]

Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

And he's super smart.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He's incredibly smart. So in September 1909, the Tigers are playing Max Philadelphia Athletics in a late season showdown for first place.

[B]

I gotta say, the belt placement didn't help anything.

[A]

No, it doesn't help. It doesn't help.

[B]

They probably asked him to do it, like.

[A]

Yeah. So the A's are behind the Tigers by 3.5 games. And little Rastas is in the Tigers dugout. And in the A's dugout is Louis getting his tryout with the team.

[B]

Oh, my God. The tension between those two.

[A]

Lewis had been used as the Penn University athletics team's mascot when, When Mac heard about him.

[B]

So he's, he is got, he's gotten scouted too. They're like, we were ready to call you up to the majors.

[A]

Basically, you're pretty good.

[B]

They got a good win streak. Everyone in America is a total. We'd like to sign you for a week, test you out.

[A]

So, Max season, you are in the.

[B]

Dumbest country in the dumbest period in the history of the world. Do you understand?

[A]

Max sees him in the stands and yelled to him, quote, how'd you like to 10 bats for us today? And so during the next two games, the A's caught lucky breaks and won. And so now they're just 1.5 games behind the Tigers. And while they didn't end up catching the Tigers that season, Lewis did catch on with them. I, I, look, we need a mascot.

[B]

No, we have one.

[A]

We do.

[B]

And I thought it was running the merch store. We really. It's not even the idea of the mascot. It's the adults being like these children half influence over reality.

[A]

But it's, but they, they think, they truly think. Like, I put on this wristband and I start hitting. Like, baseball players have this.

[B]

They still started.

[A]

Oh, my God. Huge, distorted superstition. Yeah, I agree. Bring back the kids.

[B]

Good Lord.

[A]

So the next spring, Max signed Lewis to a contract as a mascot.

[B]

Who's negotiating that? I mean, what it's like, I'll take it. Your exclusivity is a bit of a problem now. In the season, you can have exclusive rights, but in the offseason, I should be allowed to endorse whatever products.

[A]

Yeah. Wherever we want to go. He wore uniform. He made road trips. Two players were his guardians and made sure he went to mass on Sundays. Travel was hard because Lewis had spasms of pain.

[B]

Jesus. I just.

[A]

Sorry, but you got to hit the road with us on the bus.

[B]

He's hurting back there. Well, we're winning. So tell him to shut the up.

[A]

He never complained. A reporter, quote, he had the courage of a Spartan.

[B]

I, I, I, honest to God, Dave, I, I don't know what I hate more, America's Nightmare or the people who write about it like it's normal.

[A]

The players loved him. Even a plo. Even the opposing players loved him. Ty Cobb really liked him. If a hitter was slumping, Lewis told him, quote, better rub my back for a hit this time. At one point, Max sent him out to be the first base coach. But the umpire immediately sent him back into the dugout. Out. Because he'd clearly be heard if a ball was hit at him.

[B]

Also, he's like, no, there's a whole, like, there's a. You got to fill out some paperwork.

[A]

No, you didn't. You can send anybody out to be for space, Coach.

[B]

We want the monkey to pitch.

[A]

But he, he looked at him and he was like, no. If a ball gets hit hard, he's not going to be able to move out of the way.

[B]

Don't worry, he won't hit. He didn't rub my back. Everybody cool out.

[A]

So the team starts better that season. Much better. Another player was leading the leagues in stolen bases over Ty Cobb. The pitchers were pitching better. The A's won the most games of any team in American League history at that time. 102. And in the World Series, they played the mighty Cubs with a couple of injured players. People thought they would get crushed. Lewis got a big moment when Mack let him carry out the A's lineup card to home plate before game one. In the final game, they scored five runs in the eighth, and as they rubbed the hell out of Lewis's back, won the World Series, I just.

[B]

How the fuck Isn't that great, man? You know what they're doing right now? They're all going back out there to rub the back of the boy who needs medical attention. They are celebrating. I'll tell you what, Don, there are a few moments that choke me up in this event anymore. But watching them rub that big old back of that child there, believing that there's a genie inside of that hump, makes me really, really feel something I haven't felt in a long time. Makes you remember what this sport is all about.

[A]

I'll tell you, I, I get a little teary eyed when I think about treating a human being is not as human.

[B]

Well, I think in a civilized society this boy would probably receive some sort of medical attention for the clear pain that he's in. But Instead, the A's have figured out a loophole, and instead they just go out there, let the boy rub the bats, rub the back. He sleeps in the clubhouse. He rides on the bus. He's quite sick. But all that has culminated in a World Series victory that nobody saw coming.

[A]

Worth it.

[B]

Absolutely worth it. And the boy, we should point out the boy is down. He's really. He's in a lot of pain. This season has taken a lot out of him.

[A]

I hear they're looking at half Tommy, who is a boy that was cut in half.

[B]

That's right. The lower half somehow survived. And they're taking the bottom half of the boy on road trips with them. But I don't know if there's gonna need them next year. Somebody will probably pick up half Tommy.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

By the way, we should point out that the Minnesota Twins have a finger as a mascot. Child lost it in a combine harvester accident, and they've taken that on the road. It is a pinky. And I'll tell you what, some of their offseason moves already seem to be paying off future dividends. But this is not about the future. This is about the A's, who have put together quite a streak and the boy who deserves some sort of doctor intervention, who's not going to get it, but instead here is being rubbed by 50 grown men who sometimes sneak him into the hotel and put him under their bed, and he rides on the bus with them, closing out the season.

[A]

Top of the bus.

[B]

Top of the bus sometimes, too. Where the luggage goes. Thanks, Rick.

[A]

When the A's returned to Philly after the victory, fans lined up for a gauntlet, and the players passed through. And Connie Mack was in front. And beside him, just barely as tall as his belt, was Lewis, limping along.

[B]

Oh, my God. I mean, again, I. It's. It's like. It is a weird little life lottery for someone who had all this. And yet it just. The level of exploitative awfulness is hard to process.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, for him in this moment, he's like, this is pretty cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's also like, hey, how about dignity with life?

[A]

Mac had finally won a World Series. And the Inquirer wrote, quote, many of the players felt that the diminutive chap who walked beside the great Connie Mac had a lot to do with the humbling of the Cubs.

[B]

That's so stupid.

[A]

Connie himself thought so.

[B]

So fans were also like, there. That's what we won.

[A]

Everybody thinks that. He's a big part of it, truly.

[B]

What do you think the mean average IQ is for America 7? Yeah. I mean, it's got to be like super desperately low.

[A]

It's not high. Hey, here's the team photo from that year. And you can see him in the front.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

I know exactly. Oh, my God.

[A]

He is in the team photo. And it is very clear that he is a much smaller person than everybody else.

[B]

Is the coach dressed like an art thief?

[A]

Well, they. Yeah, they. They didn't. I think back then they didn't dress in uniforms maybe. Or maybe for the picture.

[B]

So. Crazy dude.

[A]

He might also be the owner at this point.

[B]

He's also got a glove on. Who, the kid?

[A]

Yeah, sure. What would you do?

[B]

Give him a life.

[A]

So the next season, Lewis was back, and the A's rolled on and into the World Series against the New York Giants. But Giants had a very special power in their dugout.

[B]

Gareth, we got a lizard.

[A]

Of course I'm talking about Charles Victor Faust. Charlie was born in 1880 and grew up on a Kansas farm. Unfortunately, he had mental issues.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And was just.

[B]

I'll tell you what, they might have a boy who looks like his pants are his neck. This guy's out of his tits.

[A]

He was just too incompetent to run the family farm. What the. And Charlie really couldn't do much. And then in 1911, he went to the county fair and went to a fortune teller.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And she told him he would become a professional pitcher and lead the New York Giants to the pennant. So Charlie immediately headed for St. Louis.

[B]

How many people you think that fortune teller told that to that day, you will lead the New York team to. The jets will win the penny.

[A]

Guys like 80.

[B]

Oh, you think so?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I just thought I'd finish the farm.

[A]

No, I can't move my leg.

[B]

That's not going to be an issue.

[A]

So Charlie immediately hops on a bus and goes to St. Louis because the Giants are there playing the Browns. And he somehow manages to meet John McGraw, the Giants manager, and explained what the fortune teller told him.

[B]

Well, that's as good as a doctor's note.

[A]

It's a McGraw. It's like, I'll give it a try out.

[B]

Well, I mean, if a fortune teller at a fair told you to do this and you did, it seems good enough to me.

[A]

You ever seen the movie Big? I think that's real.

[B]

Pretty sure this is Big.

[A]

So he was awful. He could. He couldn't pitch. And yet that day, the Giants won.

[B]

Now, look, you're a terrible Pitcher. But we did win. I think you have magic mascot powers.

[A]

You're dumb as a box of boxes, kid. And that is something special.

[B]

You've got a crazy attitude, and that's just the kind of thing we need to have here in our locker room.

[A]

Then one the next day, and then the Giants are heading Outtown on a road trip for the rest of the road trip. I mean, and when they came back to New York, they found Charlie waiting for him at the stadium.

[B]

I mean, and they went like, imagine if you picked your boyfriend or girlfriend.

[A]

This is how you do it, is how I've done it.

[B]

This is, like, scary. Be like, oh, wow. I mean, I don't know. I didn't really like her, but we went out twice, and, you know, I had good luck. And then she keeps waiting outside of my place. I think I'm gonna marry her.

[A]

Well, then they went on a winning streak. This obviously was not a coincidence. And they decided.

[B]

Obviously not a coincidence.

[A]

They decided as a group to bring Charlie on as their mascot. He's immediately popped with everybody. And he'd go into the outfield and he'd work out, like, this clumsy. Like, he's clearly got no talent. He's not gifted. And he'd work out in the field before games, and the fans would, like, laugh at him. And he'd be trying to pitch or.

[B]

Run and, wow, he's terrible.

[A]

Trying to get grounders and missing it, and they're just not. Can't throw to first, whatever. So they're all laughing at him. They had brass bands back then, and he would go and, like, pretend to lead the brass band.

[B]

Funny for everybody except for the people in the band who are like, jesus Christ. Come on, you guys. There you go. That's the three. Two. During the game, he broke my conducting stick.

[A]

During the game, he'd cheer in the dugout, and sometimes he go, that has.

[B]

Got to be obnoxious as.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it can't be good now. Sometimes he go outside the outfield wall to warm up in case they needed.

[B]

Him to pitch, which, like, we don't need.

[A]

Not happening.

[B]

Yeah, he's eating the ball like an apple.

[A]

But they keep winning, and they win the pennant. And Charlie. Is there a uniform. Sorry. When Charlie was with them in uniform, they won 36. 36 and 2, which is.

[B]

I'm starting to come around.

[A]

The most insane baseball. I've never heard of that. I've never heard that. That Charlie. Charlie's middle name was Victor. So he started calling himself Victory, and the press ran with it.

[B]

That's a good one.

[A]

That is good. But he's frustrated because he's not getting the pitch.

[B]

I. I think he doesn't really understand the arrangement.

[A]

Well, you heard the fortune teller.

[B]

I didn't.

[A]

She said he was going to pitch and help them win the pennant.

[B]

So has anyone ever gone back to a fortune teller? That's the move. After five years, be like, yeah, there's.

[A]

A lot of well in big again. That was a machine.

[B]

Yeah, well, that was a Zoltar.

[A]

So he became so frustrated after he asked one day and McGraw said no that he left and went over to the Brooklyn Dodgers.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But he only lasted there a few days before he came back.

[B]

Hey, I gotta be honest. They're not right.

[A]

Not great. He also did would sometimes do a vaudeville gig and he missed games.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So some agent took advantage of him.

[B]

Like, kids are so much bigger than just running around conducting the brass band.

[A]

You've got a vaudeville showing you who's in town tonight. The mascot from the Giants.

[B]

There's a guy who couldn't run his family farm who led the giants to a 36 and 2. Apparently he's a delusional child with some mental problems. There's him and then there's a camel.

[A]

I would go watch the camel.

[B]

I mean, that's literally what it was, though, right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, there's a cam. There's a camel with a wagon wheel on his back. And then there's a guy who's telling his story about a fish he caught. 36 bucks a tick.

[A]

Gareth. One day he missed a game because he was going around New York City sampling pie. Buddy, I get it, buddy. I'm with you.

[B]

Luke Simmons story.

[A]

When he was there in uniform, the Giants could not lose. Like, when he was out of uniform, they were like 36 and like seven or something.

[B]

Well, they were probably like, yeah. So here.

[A]

Huh. He was. Yeah. Probably is a mental thing also, like, on their part him.

[B]

Like, if you're a pitcher, you're probably like, please come tomorrow. Yeah.

[A]

Like, on their part, it was probably like a confidence thing. Right. If he's not there, you're like, yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He was always happy, and it seemed like his feelings, he just couldn't be hurt. It seemed like they, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Some writers made the point that this was clearly taking advantage of young Charlie. But the team was resolute.

[B]

Thank God for some writers being like, hey, it seems really up what we're winning penance.

[A]

The players loved him. I think it sounds like, like one loves a rabbit's Foot that's in their pocket, maybe.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Charlie still really wants to pitch. And once they had the pun. Pennant one. They still have some games to play.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

But they've won. So McGraw lets him pitch an inning against Boston. He gave up one run.

[B]

Boston was like, we are shit.

[A]

I've seen this in high school baseball. So. And. And I read about how he pitched. So in, God, I want to say the late 70s, there was a guy that threw a pitch that was so slow that nobody could hit it. Yeah.

[B]

It's like the biggest change up.

[A]

Yeah. And he had, like. He was like the third or fourth best pitcher in Major League Baseball that year. And they went into the second year, into the center, and then everyone's like, okay, we figured it out. But that's what he was. So he would throw the ball and it would get to the plate and then just die. And so it looked like it was going to go to the plate and they'd swing, and then it would. Just because he couldn't throw it that far. So he.

[B]

They just used. They were like, we haven't played bad. And so, like, we haven't played a terrible baseball player in a long time. What did I tell you, Skip?

[A]

Because giving up one run is pretty good for. Yeah, yeah. He also got to bat in the bottom of the ninth, even though we're already three out. So they were being nice at that point. In the last inning of the game. In the last inning of the last game, they let him pitch again.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The other team did not score.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

And he got to bat again.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

But this time, the other team hit him with a pitch intentionally.

[B]

Oh, my God. That's. That is savagery.

[A]

So he could run the bases.

[B]

Okay, well, couldn't you just throw four balls?

[A]

Yeah, he could have.

[B]

All right, that. We're gonna give him a respectful bean. Keep in mind, this kid's not 100.

[A]

They probably didn't hit him hard.

[B]

I'd be hilarious if the guy just. Billy Madison. There you go, kid. Take your base.

[A]

And then they let him steal second and third.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And then he was bunted in to score a run.

[B]

All right, so now we are. And I don't mean to be rude or shitty, but this is. Did you ever see the. Was this kid's make a wish was to dress up like Batman and save San Francisco?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We're in that territory.

[A]

We are. This is. Okay, this is.

[B]

This is like a. A Chris Connelly ESPN thing where they're just like. But little Darren wouldn't Give up.

[A]

Yeah, no, I've, I. I've seen this in a bunch of different things. Yeah, this is cool. This is nice. He gets.

[B]

Again, I don't think you need to bean him.

[A]

He gets back to the.

[B]

Imagine watching one of those ESPN stories and they be in the kid like, jesus Christ.

[A]

He gets back to the dugout and he's got a huge smile and he keeps saying, who's lo.

[B]

Oh, no. Oh, no.

[A]

But they face the A's in the World Series. So now we have the power of the hunched back guy. Is. Is that stronger than the Mr. Looney? As you know, it's really the craziest, most disturbing up. I just Disability off in the history of.

[B]

Now that we've gone through the roster, let's talk about the issues both mascots have. One by back, one by brain, both mentally infirmed or physically infirmed. This is a real chess match over who's been dealt the worst hand.

[A]

Well, Gareth, the power of the gentleman with the hunched back one.

[B]

I'll tell you what, I favored him all the time because of experience. He's been to the big dance before.

[A]

So the Giants lose.

[B]

Super sick kid. Not able to really do much anymore. But they keep him there on a little board and they walk him around with it, make sure that he's still there. Unfortunately, Victory didn't have enough to pull it out for them, but that hasn't stopped him from running around the clubhouse. And he's got a big cut on his head. I don't know how he got that.

[A]

Charlie afterwards reminded everyone that the fortune teller said they'd win the pennant, not the World Series.

[B]

Jesus. I'll tell you what, locker room wise, I'd be like, get him. Get him the out of here. Do you understand me? I will smack this kid.

[A]

Now, for his part, Lewis got a huge bonus.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And the A's went on to win.

[B]

Can I go to a doctor? No.

[A]

No.

[B]

So Lewis go.

[A]

They. They go on to win the World Series next year. And Lewis obviously playing a huge part by having a. A physical issue. Great.

[B]

Of course, you know how it works.

[A]

Not the same for Charlie, though.

[B]

Oh, dear.

[A]

So Charlie shows up the next season for spring training, and McGraw is surprised because no one had asked him to come.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

That might be because the previous season there were a lot of sports writers saying what they were doing to Charlie was humiliation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And McGraw had to constantly argue that it was good for Charlie. So McGraw was convinced to allow him to stay on the team again. And the team was winning and had a 54 and 11 start. But Charlie kept demanding playing time.

[B]

That's. That's where it's. That's again, we're talking about just, you know, you can't fault someone for how they behave in a jail nightmare. But that is the. The misstep. I will if you're quiet and you're just sort of. You know what I mean? But to be like, there and being like, skip, when are you gonna put me in, for God's sake?

[A]

But I will say there are kids on Finn's teams who are terrible at baseball and think they're. They're the best player on the team, right? So it's a very weird thing that happens.

[B]

Stand up.

[A]

So he believes he's. He was an integral part of the World Series team and he should play. And it really starts to get on McGraw's nerves. And McGraw is no longer amused by his antics. And it, some people said, was worrying about his mental state. Anyway, he cuts him. So Charlie waits around for the rest of the season.

[B]

The story of how the joker became.

[A]

So Charlie waits around for the rest of the season, waiting for the call to come back.

[B]

I'm staying in game shape.

[A]

It never comes back. The Giants went on to play in the World Series, and they lost. Charlie couldn't give. He didn't give up, though. For the next couple of years, he sent telegrams to the Major League Baseball commissioner asking for a contract with the Giants, but it never happened. He moved to Seattle with his brother, but he still had baseball under his skin. And when the Giants were headed to Portland to play a game, he decided he would meet them there. And so he started to walk from Seattle to Portland.

[B]

If history on this show has taught me one thing, Dave, it's that the media will take notice.

[A]

Nope. On the way, he was stopped by the police and arrested. So it's worse.

[B]

Oh, my God. We're mascot ice.

[A]

Mice.

[B]

Can I just. Yes. Can I just say, you know, watching just the non sequitur here, but the. I feel weird making jokes about ice because I always think it's so strange how. All right, so we have the terrible thing that's happening. We can't process it. And then three weeks later, it's the third rail of comedy, and it starts to become, like, funny enough to, like, make jokes about a little bit. And it's normalized, and I think that helps normalize all of it. And then all of a sudden, it's sort of like. Like, I'm like. Like we're gonna be, like, eating people's bones. And then eventually, like, we'll be like, I mean, tell you what, I wouldn't mind eating her bone, though. You know? And we'll be like, ah.

[A]

Fortunately, I would say. I know what you mean. But I would say that they're so. So brutal and savage that they can't be normalized, I think.

[B]

Okay, Right, Okay. All right. Very Fair enough. I. I think on them is funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you have to. On them, but I think where you're sort of like, you know, if you do the thing where you're just like. I mean, my pasta took, like, 45 minutes, and I was like, maybe we should revisit this ice thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, to me, I'm like, yeah.

[A]

That'S not a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Like, I saw today a video that they were just spraying people in their cars with pepper spray. Just randomly. Yeah, yeah. So their brutality will. You can't. Norm. You won't be able to normalize it.

[B]

That's. That is amazing that there is no bottom.

[A]

So he gets arrested, and then the court sends him to a mental asylum.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I would imagine partially because he's like, I'm a baseball player. And I.

[B]

He put a fortune teller told me to be a pitcher.

[A]

He put on the intake form. I'm a baseball player. And so technically, he's right.

[B]

I agree. He is right. He's like, his only job.

[A]

But that would sound to a court like someone who is. Sure.

[B]

But aren't they able to be like, yeah, he was. He.

[A]

Like, they could.

[B]

But corroborated it.

[A]

I mean, I don't think this is a time where it's as easy to corroborate something like that is not. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. But also, people are terrible to people with mental issues, so.

[B]

Well, it sounds like this was probably better treatment than what he would get today.

[A]

Lewis is having a much better time. Yeah. The A's kept him on the team, and they won the World series again in 1913, but lost the World Series in 1914. So Lewis had four World Series appearances and three championships as a mascot.

[B]

He is the MVP.

[A]

Yeah, he's killing it. He was there for almost every home game and many road games. Hey, Louis, now, you've seen the movies like Rudy, where the players run out and they hit the Notre Dame sign as they're going out.

[B]

Yeah. You know, but Rudy's a work of.

[A]

Fish, so they would do that before the game with Lewis. They would. Every player now rubbed his. Rubbed his hump, slap him real hard.

[B]

On the way out, boys, they'd all.

[A]

Rubbed the hump before the game. Isn't that. For years that went on. He was invited.

[B]

Bring me the hump.

[A]

He was invited to second baseman Eddie Collins wedding. But his physical issues did catch up with him. He fell ill after the 1914 season and then died of kidney disease.

[B]

Stuff. And bring him on the road.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

Streaks. A streak.

[A]

Charlie was released, but I will say.

[B]

Ask the doctor if he can remove the hump, and we'll just bring that. It'll. We'll make the hump the mound. Are you listening to me?

[A]

I'm trying to. I don't know what to say to it.

[B]

Me either. But, like, again, the mound, obviously an homage.

[A]

You go back to the same thing with Rastus. So this is a guy with a severe physical issues who at this time would just be completely cast out of society and not taken care of. You know, I think we're. I think we still have freak shows, right? Like, the level of not caring about these people is extraordinary. So to have your last five years of your life to be part of a winning baseball team, this is.

[B]

Again, it's like.

[A]

It's the level of terrible.

[B]

Yeah. You would like, again, I mean, you. You. You'd rather just be like, hey, let's talk about across the board dignity. But instead, you're like, hey, that sick kid really had a good run as a good luck charm. There's a lot of other sick kids who could use help. And.

[A]

Yeah, no, no, Everyone else is getting screwed, but.

[B]

Yeah, you. Yeah, you. I mean, it's kind of like being a child actor to some extent. It's just sort of like, hey, you had a hell of a run, but, you know, this is. This will end and you're lucky.

[A]

It's gonna be terrible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Charlie was released from the asylum, but soon after, was admitted to another one, and he died June 18, 1915, from tuberculosis. Giants lost that day.

[B]

Why did you.

[A]

The A's played bad in the World Series. Sorry? The A's played in the world series in 1914. But after he died, after Lewis died, they finished in last place.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And then they finished in last place for the next seven years.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

That is.

[B]

And we. I mean, what is the line here? The line is that maybe it's like, obviously, Dumbo's feather.

[A]

No, obviously, we're not saying he's a good luck charm.

[B]

No, we're saying he's the best luck charm.

[A]

But we're saying. I would say that the players have an Artificial confidence.

[B]

Dumbo's feather.

[A]

I don't know what that means, but yes.

[B]

Dumbo's feather. Dumb with the feather. The feather was why Dumbo flew.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Or was Dumbo just a flying elephant? And the second that it was revealed to Dumbo that the feather was just there to give Dumbo the confidence to fly, Dumbo flew without the feather and realized the feather was just something that was a placeholder for his true gift. The messages put elephants on the circus. It's an awesome place for a wild animal.

[A]

Now the crosstown Phillies have to watch the A's success for all these years while they failed. So naturally they're like, we need a hunchback. Which is literally what they said. They tried out at least two that we know of.

[B]

Oh, can you imagine being like at the audition? All right, look, we're looking for one. One.

[A]

One guy was named Eddie Naughton and he was the mascot when the Phillies won their first pennant in 1915. Now not doing well, the A's manager, Mack, thought maybe it was because of the lack of a mascot after Lewis, or should I be more specific? He literally thought he needed someone with a hunchback.

[B]

That. That is also really shitty. He's. I can't. I mean, they're really. I'm trying to find a way to.

[A]

I mean, what we're talking about right.

[B]

Now is we need a new hunch.

[A]

Baseball teams think they need a human being with a specific physical deformity in.

[B]

Order to be good at baseball.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Everything they're doing is important. But the sealer is like, look, he was obviously very important, but we need to find a new hunch. This is. We're gonna do it Dalai Lama style. We're gonna go from town to town and find the newest.

[A]

So the a's auditioned a 13 year old kid from Philly named Huey McLoon. Let me tell you something. The last name is terrible, considering not good.

[B]

I'll tell you what, marketing wise, far better. McLoon.

[A]

So it's 1916 and as soon as Huey walked in, he said, snickering started, quote, I felt queer. They all began to laugh and kid me. Max said Huey wasn't as likable as Lewis. Yeah, because. Yeah, he's got a little more self respect for himself.

[B]

Well, I. Excuse me, asshole.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, do you have. Fucking idiot. Do you know where the he's living right now? I mean, what the fuck do you expect? A positive attitude.

[A]

And the team is not nearly as good as the ones that Lewis is On. So he ends up firing Huey. Huey has a hard time finding job, and he became a police informer to get by, and then gangster shot and killed him in 1928. Mascots are just.

[B]

What?

[A]

Did you not like that?

[B]

It's just, if I just met him. I just met him and now the mob shot him.

[A]

So mascots are a thing now. They're clearly a thing. Eddie Bennett was born in 1903 and had a spinal cord injury.

[B]

I cannot believe, Dave. I cannot fucking believe that.

[A]

I mean, this is one of. This is like.

[B]

There are so many things in history that just feel like you take two bingo balls out of a machine and you just go, baseball. Sick kids, mascots. All right.

[A]

Eddie Bennett was born in 1903 and had a spinal cord injury when he was young. That left him.

[B]

He looks pretty hunched. We'd like to bring him in for a tryout.

[A]

His parents died during the 1918. Flu. Flu. So he's. He's orphaned, but he's older then, right? He's 15.

[B]

Were they vaxxed?

[A]

Yeah. No, they weren't. Of course not. Yes, they were vaxxed. Sorry. The next year, he was at the Polo Grounds in New York, which is a ball field, when a member of the visiting White Sox saw him and asked him to be their bat boy.

[B]

You're back. Is that your natural.

[A]

Are you naturally.

[B]

Do you have a very bad curve? Are you in a lot of pain?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We'd like to take you on the bus with us.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right.

[A]

It's gonna hurt.

[B]

Yeah, it'll hurt, absolutely. But we've sucked for a while.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So we were looking for someone just like you.

[A]

I'll do my best.

[B]

Yeah. All right. Bennett it is.

[A]

Yeah. Eddie Bennett.

[B]

They'll tell you what, more like Eddie Pennant. There's something squirted out of the back of your neck.

[A]

Yeah, it hurts when I put my head back like that.

[B]

Oh, get a cape over you.

[A]

I would like to go to a doctor.

[B]

Yeah. Did you say the Dodgers? Well, we do play them on this road trip. Absolutely. We'll get you to the Dodgers, no problem.

[A]

I need to see a doctor.

[B]

You couldn't see the Dodgers. Don't worry, we'll go get you there. Hey, guys, this kid' problem with the Dodgers. We're gonna show him.

[A]

The White Sox.

[B]

Tell you what, he fell last night. He just kept saying Dodgers, Dodgers. He. He hates the Dodgers, this kid. He's got venom for the Dodgers, man.

[A]

The White Sox lost the World Series that year, and Eddie moved on. And then the Dodgers hired Him. Finally. I'm going to the doctors.

[B]

Yeah, the Dodgers. We're gonna take you. You wanted to be on the Dodgers. You win the Dodgers boy. Please take me to a doctor, boys, where he belongs. This kid's fulfilled his destiny. Where do you want to be, doctor? Let's chat it. Dodgers. Dodgers.

[A]

The Dodgers went to the World Series that year and lost, so he was out again.

[B]

Oh, my God. You're getting to the World series.

[A]

And in 1921, the Yankees hired him. Good time to point out that three teams were all looking for someone with.

[B]

A hunched back and, like, he's, like, running. Like he's. It's like. It's like pilot season. Like, everyone's like, we want to put him on a show. We just got to find the right vehicle.

[A]

But here's the thing. He would go on to be with the Yankees for 12 years and is maybe the most popular bad boy in the history of baseball. He took the job very seriously, keeping the bats in order, never. Speaking of inside clubhouse business, you should.

[B]

Now, you don't tell anyone what you saw in here. Do you understand?

[A]

Yes. But I saw you making out with Mick.

[B]

Yeah. And you'd be quiet.

[A]

Okay, but that's a weird thing I really want to tell people. You know, I won't say anything. I won't say anything.

[B]

You'd be quiet about it here. Okay? We are a terribly racist, sexist, assaulting team.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But you're one of us, so you be quiet.

[A]

Okay? All right.

[B]

Now, the only way for you. For us to know that we have your secrecy, huh? You're gonna. This woman in front of the team.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

You understand me?

[A]

Yes. Okay.

[B]

We're gonna throw jelly at you while you do it.

[A]

He was often seen crying after they lost. The players loved him.

[B]

I think the like it. You know, elevating, like, you're. It is true. This is a truly charmed, great experience for anyone. I mean, if, you know, if I was a kid and they were like, hey, the team's gonna bring it, like, that is great. It is. And. And if it's this version where it's kind of like there is dignity involved in it, then there is, because he.

[A]

He, like we said, he was smart and liked, but he beque. He became the equipment manager.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And the teams do love purpose. The teams do love their equipment.

[B]

So he.

[A]

He was brought in as a. Like a ridicule joke thing, but then gained respect and popularity because he was able to do a good job at equipment managing.

[B]

Yeah, right. There you go. That is like and that is like. Yeah, I mean, that's that if you, if you surround society then with, you know, actual care for everyone, then this is great. Yeah, yeah. But if you make it that it's like, boy, if you have, if you have some sort of medical issue and you're, you don't have a home because society doesn't give a. About anyone and some of these people just win the scratch off lottery, well then it becomes weird.

[A]

Well also, but like, you know, as a society, just discard people who have.

[B]

Disabilities if they don't give you luck.

[A]

But a guy gets a chance that he can do the fucking job if.

[B]

Their hump's not lucky enough enough.

[A]

Right. He got, he does a job.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so players love him.

[B]

They.

[A]

Some players won't let anybody else touch their bat ever.

[B]

I mean, that's obviously strange.

[A]

Babe Ruth had Eddie deliver an admiring note to his future wife. Picture urban shocker. Roomed with Eddie.

[B]

Sorry I puked on you. Will you marry me?

[A]

Babe Ruth roomed with Eddie on road trips when he was trying to keep his health condition from his teammates. He was the rare mascot with a physical condition who gained the respect of the players. And he went to many World Series with the team.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But in 1932, he was hit by a cab and seriously injured. Oh. Now we're back to the thing about disabilities, because America better now, but back then, not at all safe for people with disabilities. The recovery time was lengthy and he gave up his job. And then he started drinking, was very depressed, and he died in 1935. Now, the Yankees were on a road trip, so they couldn't come to the burial, but the team paid for his burial and all the the entire front office attended his funeral. So the time was a grim one. Using people with physical and mental issues as mascots would not obviously be done today. Oh, wait. In 2004, Nelson de la Rosa of the Dominican Republic met Red Sox superstar pitcher Pedro Martinez.

[B]

Oh, my God. Ah, I forgot about this.

[A]

Nelson was 54 centimeters tall, maybe the smallest man in the world. He had done some acting at this point, and the two men started hanging out. And soon he was in the Red Sox clubhouse and the rest of the team loved him. And he became Gareth.

[B]

He became Gareth.

[A]

The Red Sox good luck charm.

[B]

Now wait a minute.

[A]

Stayed with them all the way through the World Series victory when the Red Sox broke their 86 year World Series championship drought. And then after the season, Pedro left the team for the Mets. And Nelson was pissed and he was heartbroken and he couldn't get over the fact that Pedro would leave the team. Team. And Pedro told press having Nelson around was a quote, was quote, just a trick. And then they stopped talking. And Nelson died two years later of heart failure at 38 years old.

[B]

Oh, my God, this is just the craziest.

[A]

2004. It is 2004. They did the. I mean, besides having him as a bat boy, they didn't do that. But they had him there in the.

[B]

Clubhouse and all the time tiny.

[A]

He's. He's been in movies like the island, Dr. Moreau and stuff. Like, he's like a really small dude. But, yeah, it was. And the thing is, I love Pedro Martinez. Like, I think he's one of those. One of the greatest pictures ever, but also, like, a crazy character and a fun character. And then you hear this and you're just like, fuck, I got a page.

[B]

On my story for you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

When I used to valet park cars in Boston. When before the 2004 World Series, like, years before for. He pulled up once in a Porsche. This is. Cell phones were just popping. He had a cell phone that he was talking on, and he was trying to give me, like, 50 bucks to keep his car up front. It was like, me and another dude. And he had a little bag, like a, like a man purse kinda full of other cell phones. And he was like, digging through like, three or four cell phones to find the money. Money. He, like, didn't say a word, but he gave us like, 50 and went in and we were like, what?

[A]

He already had burners for girls.

[B]

It was crazy.

[A]

He's had burners for all of his.

[B]

It was crazy.

[A]

Yeah, that's what that is. That's got to be that.

[B]

I don't know. We were both like, what just happened?

[A]

So funny. Yeah. So that was a bummer to read. Sources 19. Oh, sorry. Thecultureclash.com todayifoundout.com, detroit Free Press, savr.org that is article Little Rastus Cobbs Good Luck Charm. Wikipedia the fdrfoundation.org John the Orangeman Revealed Human Mascots Exploring the Extreme side of Baseball Superstition by Jeff Sullivan at SB Nation. The Dark History of Sports Mascots by Jonathan Brannan on Medium.com and the Disturbing History of Baseball Mascots by F.R. fitzpatrick in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

[B]

Well, that, that really is like, I, I again. I mean, even today, like, there's, there's a ton of. That's still exploitative.

[A]

Well, yeah, I mean, look, the. There isn't a huge step from I Mean, look, they're not actually having a Native American run around. It's a, it's a guy. But watching like the, the, the Florida State still do their chants, their little.

[B]

Oh, well, the Native American and the.

[A]

In the, and the, the Braves that doing the chop with, you know, just.

[B]

Off with that kid Rock travel around with a, A very sick Josie, I think was. But I mean, again, it's like. I don't know. I, I, I don't know. I think what, what the. I don't know. I mean, I do think, like, as long as you're going, like there is a healthy enjoyment factor that is consented to in a way that feels on the up and up, then I guess, whatever, you know. But if you are, if, if you are, it's again, I mean, it's punching down versus just sort of having elevating someone's life experience, I guess.

[A]

But it's, it's a very way. I mean, in the like, Like a.

[B]

Hard, it's even hard to discuss and try to, try to sort of mince through it is.

[A]

When I, in the late 90s, I went to Lancaster, Pennsylvania to do standup gig. And that was where I found out that young Amish, the dudes would go park their trucks and young teenagers would come out to them.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Because they're so repressed. They're just like, whatever. But, but there was, in town, there.

[B]

Was, but the autism rates.

[A]

There was a little person and he, he was working as he was in a coffee pot outfit outside of a coffee cafe. And he would just stand there to try to get people going.

[B]

I was just like, dude, I got.

[A]

I was just like, what. What are you guys fucking doing?

[B]

Same time.

[A]

And someone said, well, he tried to get other jobs and he couldn't get one. And I was just like, oh, my God.

[B]

Same time in Milwaukee, there was a restaurant, a Mexican restaurant opened up called Nacho Mama. And I mean, dude, I remember when I first, when I first heard about it, they were like, there's a little person who wears a sombrero with chips and salsa.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Walks around from table to table and you can eat chips and salsa out of the brim and the top of the hat. And then, and I mean, I was in high school and it was like. And then you were like, like, oh, yeah. They like, he's not there anymore.

[A]

Like, it became too uncomfortable.

[B]

But no, no, no, not even that. It was like he was get. He, he became problematic.

[A]

Yeah. Because he was probably drinking to.

[B]

It was probably, I mean, totally through it, probably. I mean, what do you expect?

[A]

Yeah, of course he's gonna become problematic. We gotta let you go look more. Not.

[B]

Not.

[A]

We're not. It's not like we're kicking ass with the. As far as the people with disabilities. I mean. No, my God, don't. Don't read about, like, what, Canada and, And like England, the word. And I. And I don't know about America because I don't know if we can keep records on this, but the number of people that just had like downs or some sort of disability, that they were just like, great, let them die because of COVID Instead of trying to fix them, you know, trying to heal them, to give them whatever they could, they just let them. They just let them die.

[B]

It's called a comorbidity, and you're allowed.

[A]

To have it so.

[B]

Well, as long as everyone feels not good anymore, you're welcome. There you go. That's.

[A]

That's.

[B]

That's the show. This is the show. I say this is a perfect encapsulation of what the show is.

[A]

I started out, I'm gonna do a baseball episode. And then I just saw this, and then I was halfway through, I was like, well, this is a fun baseball episode.

[B]

Yeah, you were probably like, well, I've put 10 hours of work into this already, so we're gonna do it.

[A]

That's kind of what it was. Loops of.

[B]

All right, there you go. Thanks, everybody. Oh, and by the way, Happy Thanksgiving. Oh, what could be better than seeing Gareth Reynolds do stand up? Go to garethreynolds.com for tickets and information. I will be in Omaha on November 28th and 29th. I will be in Vancouver, British Columbia on December 2nd. Seattle, Washington, December 3rd. Eugene, Oregon, December 4th. Then I will also be in Kansas City, Missouri, doing a makeup show. Come on, everybody. Shake off the new year. January 2nd. January 3rd. And just announced I will be back in Portland, Oregon at Helium comedy club on February 6th and February 7th. That's going to be a five show weekend over two nights. So go to garethreynolds.com for tickets and information. Join me.