715 - Brigham Young - Part One

Summary

The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds

Episode 715 - Brigham Young, Part One

Release Date: January 6, 2026
Main Theme:
Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds dive into the early life of Brigham Young and the wild, winding beginnings of Mormonism. Through their trademark comedic banter and irreverence, they trace how Young moved from poverty in Vermont to becoming one of the central figures in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—all while riffing on 19th-century hardships, early American religious weirdness, and the origins of Mormon scripture.

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Episode Overview

In this first of a four-part series, Dave tells Gareth about the formative years of Brigham Young: his hardscrabble upbringing, the family’s struggles, and how the Youngs ended up swept up in the fervor of early American religious revival. They then trace the founding stories of Mormonism, pondering its unbelievable claims and cultish growth, all while layering in trademark comic tangents and biting observations about belief, cults, and the human need for certainty.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Early Life of Brigham Young

• Brigham Young is introduced as a “massive” figure in American history deserving a four-part Dollop deep-dive.

  • [03:16]
  • "This is my boy. This is our boy. ... Four parter." — Dave

• Young is born in abject poverty in Whittingham, Vermont, the 9th child of John and “Nabby” Young.

  • [03:39]
  • His father, John, endured indentured servitude at age six, then joined the Revolutionary Army.
  • [06:03]

• Hardships abound: chronic poverty, lack of shoes and hats, and frequent moves around New England.

  • [08:21]
  • “In my youthful days, instead of going to school, I had to chop logs ... barefooted. And if I had on a pair of pants that would cover me, I did pretty well.” — Brigham Young [08:31]

• Parental loss and family split: Nabi dies of consumption, scattering the children among relatives.

  • [09:50]
  • Strict father, limited Sunday fun: “He wasn't allowed to walk more than 30 minutes on a Sunday because...John's strict religious beliefs.” [10:46]

2. Religious Context and American Weirdness

• The “burned-over district” in upstate New York—where Brigham and his family relocate—breeds new religious movements and sects (including the Shakers, Quakers, Methodists, etc.).
  • [12:34]
  • “There was probably a lot of Christian sex too. … Shakers, Quakers, God makers.” [12:41-12:44]
• Even within his own family, different shades of religious enthusiasm abound—some official preachers, others “rogue” and unaffiliated.
  • [13:00]
  • “His youngest brother was a rogue preacher, not affiliated with the church … just preaching the word of God.” [13:13]
• Brigham is resistant to religious fervor—"not really into any specific belief," despite heavy family pressure.
  • [12:52 - 12:58]

3. The Arrival of Mormonism

• The Book of Mormon is introduced by Samuel H. Smith (Joseph’s brother) to the Youngs and their extended circle.
  • [17:57]
• Conversion is slow for Brigham:
  • “I was not baptized on hearing the first sermon nor the second nor during the first year of my acquaintance with this work.” — Brigham, [20:41]
  • Practical considerations (family pressure, possibility of financial reward, the newness of the faith) all play roles in his eventual conversion.
  • “If your family's into it…it makes family reunions and Thanksgiving weird if you're not.” [21:59]
• Burgeoning Mormon converts in the family spark curiosity, but Brigham's initial skepticism about the faith's wild claims is made clear.

4. Joseph Smith and the Dawn of the New Faith

• Dave and Gareth delve deep into the story of Joseph Smith—the classic American religious entrepreneur.
  • Tales of gold digging, visions, and angelic visitations.
  • Encounters with the angel Moroni (“like baloney, but with an M”) and the golden plates.
    • [35:02]
    • “This was actually Moroni. ... I'm like baloney, but with an M, but different.” — Gareth as Moroni [34:57]
• The plates and their translation: Joseph dictates from behind a curtain, “using magical spectacles” — a foundational, but bizarre detail for the faith.
  • [44:05]
  • “Joseph is behind a curtain, alone with the plates. He dictates them. And then Martin writes.” [44:38]
• Early doctrinal hiccups and mishaps, including the infamous lost 116 pages, which God conveniently tells Joseph to ignore and just keep going.
  • [59:04]
  • “God, however, was forgiving and said don't worry about the first 116 pages. Just start from page 117.” — Dave [59:14]
• Financial sacrifices: Martin Harris covers the printing costs, cementing the pattern of monetary and personal risk among early converts.

5. Growth, Outlandish Claims, and Race in Early Mormonism

• The theology of the Book of Mormon: Israelites in America, Jesus’s post-resurrection visit to the New World, the “Nephites” and “Lamanites.”
  • [63:46]
  • “Jesus appears to them after his resurrection in America.” [64:02]
• Controversial racial teachings:
  • “[Native Americans] are the Lamanites—the bad guys. In the Book of Mormon, ‘with a skin of blackness’ ... but one day they would accept the gospel and become a, quote, white and delightsome people.” [64:16-64:41]
• The Church of Christ (soon the Church of Latter Day Saints) starts with only 40-50 members—Brigham is truly an early adopter.
  • [65:08]

6. Spread, Missions, and Internal Struggles

• Brigham’s missionary work: 40 meetings, 14 converts.
  • [68:32]
  • “That's not bad. That's not great, because it's a crazy idea." [68:33]
• Introduction of church hierarchy and committees—“Quorum of the 12 Apostles,” “the 70”—classic organizational tactics to give everyone a role and stave off dissent.
  • [79:02]
  • “Joseph would go on sprees of invented committees and authoritative bodies and then not make it clear where authority lay…he’s literally putting guys into groups so they feel better about themselves.” [80:07]

7. Mormon Banking Scheme and Disaster

• The Kirtland Safety Society—a semi-official bank, unlicensed yet endorsed by the prophet, triggers boom and bust dynamics.
  • [88:52–90:37]
  • “Brigham, quote, invested $7 for 2,000 shares. But then their bank charter wasn’t approved by the government, so it’s technically illegal.” [89:36]
• Faith replaces financial sense; “Kirtland bills are as safe as gold” becomes a crypto-like refrain.
  • “If the doubters would just get in line, it would all be okay. It’s crypto. It’s crypto.” — Dave [91:39]
• Predictable collapse and mass disillusionment, followed by classic cult leader tactics (denouncing defectors as traitors, apocalyptic prophesying, etc.).

8. Infighting and Brigham’s Loyalty

• Joseph Smith’s volatile leadership and emotional instability alienate supporters; yet Brigham remains steadfast, interpreting every disaster as a test of faith.

  • [84:20] “He was called of God. God dictated him. And if he had a mind to leave him, let him commit an error, that was no business of mine.” [96:14]

• Division and mob pressure force the Saints out of Ohio, setting up the next chapter in Mormon migration.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Brigham Young’s poverty:
  “John Young did not own a cow, a horse, or any other land, but gained a poor living as a basket maker.” — Dave, quoting John G. Turner [07:41]

• On the origin of Mormon names:
  “Mormon names are out of their tree. They're nuts, right?” — Dave [03:58]

• On Joseph dictating the Book of Mormon:
  “So, Joseph is behind a curtain, alone with the plates. He dictates them. And then Martin writes.” [44:38]

• On the “Lamanites”:
  “But one day they would accept the gospel and become a, quote, white and delightsome people." — Dave [64:41]

• On cult growth dynamics:
  “If you watch any cult doc today, you can get—you peel off people pretty easy…you just… you gotta find just some actors or some needy people.” — Gareth [68:40]

• On the Kirtland Safety Society (the Mormon bank):
  “Kirtland bills are as safe as gold…Trust me. It’s like NFTs.” — Gareth [89:43]

• On why Brigham sticks by Smith:
  “He was called of God. God dictated him. And if he had a mind to leave him…let him commit an error, that was no business of mine.” — Dave, quoting Brigham [96:14]

• On losing Ohio:
  “Can you imagine being so shitty Ohio’s like, get out.” — Gareth [97:27]

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Timeline of Major Segments

• [03:04] — Brigham Young’s birth and family context
• [06:03] — The hardships of John Young (Brigham’s father)
• [09:50] — Nabi Young’s death, family splits
• [12:34] — American religious sectarianism ("the burned-over district")
• [17:57] — Samuel H. Smith introduces the Book of Mormon
• [26:02] — Brigham is baptized, rapidly promoted to elder
• [31:27] — Joseph Smith's family, treasure hunting, and outlandish visions
• [35:02-42:00] — The golden plates, Moroni, and translation myths
• [44:05-46:11] — The mechanics of dictating the Book of Mormon
• [50:00~54:40] — [Ad section; skipped]
• [64:02] — Book of Mormon doctrine: Israelites, Nephites, Lamanites, and race
• [68:32] — Brigham’s missionary work
• [79:02] — The hierarchy: Quorum of 12, the 70, and church politics
• [89:36] — Mormon banking schemes
• [96:14] — Brigham’s unwavering commitment despite catastrophe
• [97:16] — Mormons forced to flee Ohio (end of Part One)

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is classic Dollop—irreverent, sharp, freewheeling, and densely packed with both historical research and absurdist riffing. Both hosts lampoon the credulity required to found and follow a new religion, drawing comedic parallels between 19th-century religious hucksterism and modern con-men, tech startups, and cult dynamics.

Perfect for listeners who enjoy:

• Unvarnished looks at American history
• Dismantling of religious mythmaking
• Hilarious, witty asides and character improvisation
• A keen, skeptical eye on leadership, charisma, and groupthink

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End of Part One.
Stay tuned for the next installments of "Brigham Young" on The Dollop!

Transcript

[A]

You're listening. Blah, blah, blah.

[B]

This has to be kept in.

[A]

You're listening to the Dollop. This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to my ex.

[B]

Friend, Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what happened to the friendship or what the topic is going to be about.

[A]

I think that most people in the business of sound use a sort of turkeyish noise to check.

[B]

Now we have to keep the intro sound levels in. Can we get him to do a turkey check? Turkey check. Turkey check.

[A]

They're common. There's a lot of. A lot of. You saw the Beatles documentary, right?

[B]

I'll. Yes, but before you go into it, I don't think to comparing whatever you're doing to that documentary is going to be a lot of people a good look.

[A]

A lot of people compare what I've done in podcasting to what the Beatles did in rock and roll.

[B]

No way.

[A]

You've heard the. My former podcast, Walking the Room.

[B]

Walking the Room, Yeah.

[A]

That is considered to be the Beatles.

[B]

So what is this? Wings. We're in Wings. The.

[A]

This is Wings?

[B]

God, no. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, did you not know that?

[B]

No. I thought we were if.

[A]

No, this is Wings.

[B]

No.

[A]

And you're Linda.

[B]

No, I thought walking the room was when you were like, opening for Tony Sheridan and then.

[A]

No, no, no, no, this is Wings.

[B]

And now you're.

[A]

I'm Paul McCartney and you're Linda McCartney.

[B]

It's also. Also tough. I guess. At least I get to die soon.

[A]

June 1, 1801, year of our Lord J Town, who was having a rad winter, which just started yesterday, was the shortest day of the year. So for son.

[B]

Hey, I feel like we're in Wings right now.

[A]

Am I throwing facts at you? Fun facts about life.

[B]

Fun. They're just like, stupid. All stupid.

[A]

It's. It's so hard to do a podcast with a. A frumpy old grumper.

[B]

You know how busy I am? I haven't even had time to drink the 12 advent calendar cocktails I got from Costco in one sitting yet. Wait, that time I'm doing.

[A]

They have an alcoholic advent calendar and.

[B]

They got all 12. There's 12. So you, like, drink a cocktail. Leading, you know, whatever. I'm going to house them in a day.

[A]

Well, have you had any?

[B]

No, because I'm waiting for one sitting.

[C]

What's the first one?

[B]

Do you know there? I don't know what the first. I mean, I know they're all over the place. It's like a gimlet, martini, espresso martini.

[A]

It's actually a good idea to drink.

[B]

Them all in one.

[A]

No, to have that for an Advent calendar.

[B]

It's a great idea. And it's an even better idea to drink them all in an afternoon alone.

[A]

Disagree. Brigham Young was born. Boy, do I disagree. This is my boy. This is our boy.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Four parter.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Did someone ask? Someone's like, would you like to do. One of the researchers, Charlotte was like, would you like to do Burger my Young? And I was like, it's just too massive. And she did it.

[B]

And then you got it and you're like, this has to be four.

[A]

I mean, yeah, it never stops.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Brigham Young was born in Whittingham, Vermont, the ninth child of John and Nabby.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Shirt for Abigail.

[B]

Stick with Abby.

[A]

But. But. No, but it's so good that the Nabby. It's so good that the Mormons would start out with crazy names, because they are the craziest name people.

[B]

Are they Mormon? They're not Mormon yet.

[A]

Not yet, but. But come from name. Because Mormon names are out of their tree. They're nuts, right? His followers later claimed that when he was born, quote, the heavens were heard to resound slightly.

[B]

Whoops.

[A]

And towards evening, a star is said to have twinkled more irregularly than usual.

[B]

Hey, hey, Paul. Look up in the sky. Isn't that star twinkling a little bit different?

[A]

Indicating the guy was manifesting particular interest in one of his many children.

[B]

To send a signal to the beings, I will modulate the sparkle of a star.

[A]

Oh, my God, my voice is going to be great. He's going to be a basketball player.

[B]

My Lord. Why not go down there and tell.

[A]

Them, no, Twinkle, twinkle.

[B]

I'll make that one star shimmy a little bit more. Hopefully they pick up on the subtle nature of my ways.

[A]

Question.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

First of all, what am I?

[B]

You're kind of just like one. Picture it like Apple and I'm Steve Jobs.

[A]

Okay. Wouldn't everybody think that they. If they had a baby born on that day, that that baby would be the special one?

[B]

So that's why I twinkle the star, Right?

[A]

But then everybody who had a baby then is like, oh, my kid's awesome.

[B]

Your point's not lost. Maybe what I'll do is I'll make it so that they can't see it, but only Nabi can.

[A]

Okay, Pretty good.

[B]

Does that solve the issue?

[A]

I feel like I'm actually going to take lunch.

[B]

All right. What? What are we doing? What are we doing for lunch?

[A]

Oh, no, I'm meeting a friend at the.

[B]

Let's do Panera. I'll have a BLT and squash soup. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Well, all right. So I'm gonna take off though.

[B]

All right. We're good with the star thing, right? Yeah, it's really feels like that's an.

[A]

Tight's the right word. He really nailed that one. Jesus Christ. Brigham Young's father, John was sent to work as an indentured servant at the age of six. So he was frequently beaten, but then he escaped by joining the army, enlisting in the Revolutionary War under Washington.

[B]

Christ, a servant at six.

[A]

Ah, it's just how it was after. We're getting back to that. After the war, he walked 100 miles home to Massachusetts carrying a cannonballs momento. Sometime back then, memes were harder. Look, Reiky, I would.

[B]

You got to really cannonball 100 miles.

[A]

You got to really want the cannonball.

[B]

That's some wild. That. That would be like that. That you would see that on Instagram as a workout.

[A]

Are you doing it? Are you doing like this with your hand up over your shoulder?

[B]

Way too big. So they're what, like shot put size?

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

See, I still picture. I picture like a big wrecking ball.

[A]

I think it's shot put size, but it might be a little bigger, but I think it's shot with size. Yeah. Wrecking ball's crazy.

[B]

That would be in your head. I pictured him.

[A]

You're. The wars in your head are insane.

[B]

And there's a lot more of them. And the ones that did happen probably didn't.

[A]

John married Nabby in October 1785. Nabby's father was unhappy with union because John was raised alongside black servants. He didn't like that.

[B]

Of all the issues.

[A]

Well, it rubs off.

[B]

Yeah, Right.

[A]

They moved to Vermont and were said to be one of the poorest seeing.

[B]

Any more black people.

[A]

Thank God they were. They were said to be the poorest family in the area.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

John G. Turner, a professional, a professor of religious studies and history at George Mason University. Quote, john Young did not own a cow, a horse, or any other land, but gained a poor living as a basket maker.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

So pretty much every quote that I use unless otherwise stated, is going to be from John Turner's book. Brigham Young, pioneer prophet. Oh, did I give it away? He's a prophet. Gave it away. Gave it away.

[B]

Doing Red Hot Chili Peppers.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

At age 3, Brigham's family moved to Sherban, New York.

[B]

Sherban's beautiful.

[A]

Yeah. Is it?

[B]

No, never. I didn't know it existed.

[A]

John worked on farms. Bring them young. In my youthful days, instead of going to school, I had to chop logs to sew and plant to plow in the midst of roots barefooted. And if I had on a pair of pants that would cover me, I did pretty well. Gross.

[B]

So a lot of times he was kind of Winnie the Poohing.

[A]

Yeah, he's. He's. That's what he's saying. He's saying that he's doing like an Elmer Fudd situation. Like, it's just half the time.

[B]

I believe Elmer Fudd had pants.

[A]

Elmer Fudd had pants.

[B]

Yeah. He was a human. I thought he went, yeah, Elmer Fudd had paint. You're thinking of like, who's the pig? Porky Pig.

[A]

Porky Pig, yeah.

[B]

Porky Pig didn't have.

[A]

He didn't have. I'm thinking of porky Elmer Fudd, maybe. I'm thinking of. I actually, I've been watching different Elmer Fudd.

[B]

Can anyone please do a drawing of Elmer Fudd dressing like porky piggies just to walk around with his cock out?

[A]

I mean, do we even have to say who's going to do that?

[B]

No, we don't.

[A]

He's in Australia.

[B]

Albert. Fun with no pants is so great. He's hunting. That's right. Jesus Christ.

[A]

The wrong with this guy?

[B]

God, he's got his hunting hat on.

[A]

So he claims. His father didn't buy him a hat until he was 11.

[B]

Bigger deal back then.

[A]

Way bigger deal. In 1813, they moved to a town near Cayuga Lake. In June 1815, Nabi died of consumption. Well, that's how they go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Assumed.

[B]

Well, yeah, by a cough. And that's what they called it.

[A]

That. I think so. I think it's just mostly a cough.

[B]

Boy, she's hooked on that cough. That's all she talks about.

[A]

The kids were then split up. Some went to live with their older married siblings. John took Brigham to a farm near where his daughter Rhoda lived with her husband.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So close to family.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's nice. John was a strict disciplinarian. Brigham quote, it used to be a work and a blow with him, but the blow came first. I hope that's. I. I hope it's. Sure a hit and not a suck job. Yeah, that would be terrible. Although.

[B]

Although, again, it depends who's doing it. We've kind of just gone through history's knock list of terrible, and we're like, let's get that cooking right now. Let's see if we can do it all in one.

[A]

He wasn't allowed to walk more than 30 minutes on a Sunday because of John's strict religious beliefs that. Well, God was like, don't you walk? Hey, what the walking.

[B]

Remember the star? You know, they're walking a lot. I don't think they understood. I. I made one of the stars a little brighter again yesterday and I tried to signal to them that they shouldn't be walking an hour a Sunday.

[A]

I tried to bring this up at the time if you what?

[B]

But I'll make it a little brighter tonight.

[A]

I was just saying it's vague as to who specifically the star.

[B]

What are you pitching Twinkling. What should I do?

[A]

A lightning bolt.

[B]

That's so specific.

[C]

Or a burning bush.

[B]

I've done that. That was a whole thing. Who saw the burning bush?

[A]

How about a Moses? How about a giant worm?

[B]

Was it Moses who saw the burning bush?

[A]

Yeah. How about a giant worm comes out of the ground?

[B]

That guy was an idiot, by the way.

[A]

How about a giant worm comes out of the ground, One eye and he winks.

[B]

Love it. Great. Yep, Done.

[C]

Let's do that.

[B]

A winky worm.

[A]

Oh, God damn that. That could have easily been in the Bible. Hello. Hi.

[B]

No.

[A]

When Brigham was 16, his father remarried and Brigham was kicked out.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's what happens.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I got to do. Well at 16. You're. You're grown. I mean your body is 16, 20 or whatever.

[B]

I mean that's grown.

[A]

I mean my, my kid's 16 and he's like a need you, but brain.

[B]

Wise useless sack of to him.

[A]

Now, brainwise, they are not there.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, then you got you as a dad. I mean, what's better? Going off on your own or.

[A]

Well, he sings the McDonald's song. I'm loving it all the time. So what do you think? And that's about me daddy?

[B]

Weird.

[A]

He moved to Auburn and apprenticed with a furniture maker at the turn of the 19th century. There was a lot of new. A lot of new Christian sex in.

[B]

New England and New York sects.

[A]

Yes, sex.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There was probably a lot of Christian sex too. Probably not.

[B]

Honestly.

[A]

Baptist, Universalist. Methodist.

[B]

Come in a shoe and put it in her. Shakers, Quakers, Shakers, Quakers, God makers.

[A]

Brigham wasn't interested.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Not into it. His family were Methodists, but he was not really into any specific belief.

[B]

Okay, interesting.

[A]

Three of his brothers were Methodist preachers and so was his brother in law.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So they're heavy Methodist.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They're not around. His youngest brother was a rogue preacher, not affiliated with the church.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

So he's out there. He's out there hitting the road and just preaching the word of God. But not anybody's specific word of God again.

[B]

It's like the Bible. So how.

[A]

Yeah, you can do whatever.

[B]

Are you going.

[A]

You can go pretty rogue.

[B]

Really. I don't think you can.

[A]

You could. You could really make it about one thing.

[B]

He made it all in six days.

[A]

Why is.

[B]

There's no laws.

[A]

What are you doing?

[B]

It was actually Adam and Steve.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

Yeah. There's two dudes kicking it in the garden. Just each other while eating apples. Elmer fudding all through that.

[A]

Oh, that.

[B]

I. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's the 1800s, so I don't know, dude.

[B]

Whatever. By the way, not a lot of people talk about the third parting in the Red Sea.

[A]

I don't even know about the second.

[B]

Me neither. Man, this guy's terrible.

[A]

So his brother Phineas was summoned to the home of a young woman who was dying of tuberculosis.

[B]

You met, like, no. Now, am I wrong to assume that that is an airborne problem?

[A]

It's a very big airborne problem.

[B]

So you just go to someone's house?

[A]

I don't think.

[B]

Does she. Did she say she? It has to be me.

[A]

I'm the guy. For sure.

[B]

Yes, she was very specific. You must go there. Don't worry, We've closed all the windows. You'll have perfect privacy with her.

[A]

I'm actually not into God.

[B]

On Tuesday, shut the door when you're in there.

[A]

Makes sense.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

I'm not a God guy.

[B]

I must say, her voice is going so get close to hear her words.

[A]

I would rather not. What if I stand.

[B]

The best way to do this is to let her talk into your mouth. You'll feel the vibration.

[A]

Oh, God. And the blood spittle. Cuz that's coming out of her.

[B]

Oh, yeah. No, she's. She's pollocking all over the place.

[A]

Is there a thing where I can.

[B]

Not be in the room so you'll get it? No. I don't even need to hear the end of it.

[A]

Oh, is that a window?

[B]

No. We're going to shut it. So you're going to go in there? I think it's best if you spend the night. Those were her wishes.

[A]

I just.

[B]

She's very sick right now.

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

She's very sick with the. The consumption.

[A]

God twinkled at me through a star.

[B]

Wouldn't make any sense. He would do the worm thing. All right, we're gonna lock this door.

[A]

God damn that worm. Stay in there. By the way that worm scares.

[B]

Find your hands behind your back so you can't protect yourself in any way.

[A]

What? It feels like this is a biological experiment. They didn't think it was through the air.

[B]

I know. That's what's so funny, too. They were like. What did they think? They were just.

[A]

I think it was smells. I think they. I think this is when they thought you got it through smells.

[B]

We kind of did.

[A]

Foul odors. Yeah.

[B]

I mean. Oh, right. Not from the person. Right.

[A]

Not from the first.

[B]

Rebecca, what did you sniff?

[A]

So he started to pray for a peaceful death when he suddenly heard a voice tell him to pray for her recovery. And he laid hands on her. And she suddenly sat up in bed praising God with a loud voice.

[B]

Oh, God. Oh, God.

[A]

Something like that. So that's a big deal. At 23, Brigham married Miriam Works, and they soon had two daughters. Brigham worked doing construction, and in 1829, they moved back in with Brigham's father in Monroe County. They're poor as they're dirt poor. Brigham and Phineas signed a lease for one point. That's the guy who listened to the tuberculosis lady, Right? They signed a lease for 1.5 acres of land for $160 a year.

[B]

But that's a steal if it were today.

[A]

I know, right? But it's not. But Phineas bailed after a couple months. He was like, I can't.

[B]

This is mess.

[A]

I don't. Like, I'm gonna go listen to people die.

[B]

What are they doing? They're farming. Yeah. He's. Farming's too much for him. I mean, you're okay. It was either cobble or farm, right? Those.

[A]

It's only 1.5 acres. It's not a lot.

[B]

Not terrible.

[A]

Brigham struggled to keep up the payments. In 1830, he went to work in a nearby town, and Miriam became ill with consumption.

[B]

God damn.

[A]

Probably from Phineas. You know what I'm talking about?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At 30, Brigham was working.

[B]

What did you smell, hun?

[A]

30 BR was working long hours to survive, doing the chores, cooking, doing all the work at the house and doing work. And she's just laying there. I call.

[B]

Lay lounging around. Lay about lounging around, losing her battle with tb.

[A]

Samuel H. Smith, brother of Joseph Smith, arrived, selling the recently published Book of Mormon.

[B]

Hey, you see what my brother did? Weird.

[A]

That not many were into it and he was carting the heavy books around and not selling many.

[B]

Yeah, it's real.

[A]

It's.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

So he pitches to Reverend Green, who is Brigham's brother in Law. And he reads it and then he's like, yeah, no, I'm not. I mean, it's nice, but it's not bad. I'm looking for something a little less weird, if that makes sense.

[B]

Basically, the Bible. Yeah.

[A]

Except for the. I mean, there's parts of it that's hard to sort of. The plates thing.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

I'm a little thrilled.

[B]

Plates things where we're all kind of like, what?

[A]

And that's the start. So you could get one.

[B]

It's kind of the foundation. So it's like. So we got these. I don't know. It's just weird that God would. Barry. Play God normally communicates through a star.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or a winking worm.

[A]

You know that's right.

[B]

Burying some dishware in your yard seems a little.

[A]

When you bring up winking worm. Are you talking about the Elmer foot thing? Are you talking about a different winking worm?

[B]

No, different week ago.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

The Elmer Fudd wore pants.

[A]

Oh, not in the movies. Yeah, I watched.

[B]

No, he did. He definitely was a pant. You're thinking of Porky Pig.

[A]

No, I'm thinking of Elmer Fudd.

[B]

The.

[A]

Have you. Have you been to. There's. There's a whole website.

[B]

I'm hunting a wabbit.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

Sweet mother of God.

[A]

That's it. That's. That's the one.

[B]

Well, I've got a weird situation with my rabbit.

[A]

That's the one.

[B]

My penis is always out.

[A]

The worm is ready. Sorry.

[B]

Look at my waging. Hold on.

[A]

So, Samuel. That's.

[B]

That's what's up. Cock.

[A]

Joseph Smith's brother suggested to the reverend's wife, Mrs. Green, so that's Brigham's sister, that they look for a sign from God. And apparently this came.

[C]

I don't know what it was.

[A]

And Reverend and Mrs. Green convert to Mormonism. So Brigham Young, sisters in and brother in law.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So she gets.

[B]

And they're, like, living on their land. Basically, they're living near them.

[A]

Yeah. So she gives it to their brother Phineas, who also is in. So they're just reading the book and they're like, this is awesome. This is a really good book.

[B]

It's actually really good.

[A]

So he gave the book to Brigham and his father. And some Mormon preachers come to the area to visit in the fall. And Brigham is into it, but he's hesitant.

[B]

Look, I love the idea, but here's some.

[A]

There's some things.

[B]

It's weird.

[A]

There's some things.

[B]

It's too recent.

[A]

Quote, I was not baptized on hearing the first sermon nor the second nor during the first year of my acquaintance with this work. So he's hard to bring around. Yeah. He believed all religions inevitably led to Freemasonry. And I. Yes.

[B]

That's a weird.

[A]

Someone finally said it.

[B]

It's also weird to then be like, I'm not gonna do this one. All right, well, whatever. We're all just become Freemasons. By the way. He's not that wrong.

[A]

He's not.

[B]

He was probably like, yeah, there's a secret club. The Illuminati runs everything but Mormon's.

[A]

Mormonism was different in some ways. Its total nonsensical impossibility seemed to have convinced him. Quote, I thought it was eternity passed through time and into eternity again. When I discovered this, I said, it is worth of the notice of man. I mean, that. That doesn't help me at all with what your eternity passed through time and into eternity again.

[B]

Hey, I don't get it.

[A]

Hey, buddy. I don't know what you're saying. You basically came up with a nonsensical.

[B]

I think that's in the opening of the Twilight Zone.

[A]

Eternity. So there have been many practical considerations too. There were. His whole family was converting. So if your family's into it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It makes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Family reunions and Thanksgiving weird if you're. Yeah. And he could have also seen a financial opportunity because remember, he's poor as.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Maybe getting in early would lead to a little financial reward. Right. Get on the ground floor.

[B]

Absolutely. That's kind of how this all should go.

[A]

Phineas John Brigham and his friend, Heber Kimball.

[B]

What's up? I'm Heber.

[A]

It's H E B E R. It's right. Heber.

[B]

Heber.

[A]

Heber.

[B]

Heber.

[A]

Heber.

[B]

Heber.

[A]

Should we look it up? No, I should have looked it up.

[B]

It's fine. Is he in the story Alive?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, I forgot. I forgot to look up, which is what I always do.

[B]

Oh, okay. So he looks like every guy from back then. Heber. I think it's going to be Heber. Heber is pronounced as Heber rhyming with fiber.

[A]

Is that AI that said that? Yep.

[B]

Here's a one minute video on how to say it. Heber.

[A]

Okay. AI, you're so good. Thank you, AI.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

AI.

[B]

It's pronounced Heber rhyming with fiber.

[A]

I gotta do one on Sam Altman, don't I, buddy? He is really. He's like. He's like. What if Elon was a little bit smarter?

[B]

Yeah, just a touch. But still also broadly stupid.

[A]

Yeah. But Stupid at a level of con man. He's one of those guys that's not getting caught in cons because no one's just being like, hey, but no, you said the other thing there. Like, no one's calling him on anything. Yeah, it's just, like, crazy to watch. So his whole family's converting. Financial opportunity. So Heber Kimball and all of his family traveled to Pennsylvania to witness Mormonism in action.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

Well, I don't know what that meant, but that. Oh, dude, that must just be their. Their praying and hard.

[B]

Praying and build, you know, magic underpants.

[A]

Magic underpants. I don't think anything. But none of that stuff is there yet.

[B]

Like, we said, you know, the soaking.

[A]

But not, by the way. Me and Gareth have been doing soaking.

[B]

How much do you know about the world of soaking?

[A]

I just read. I. You told me about it once, and then I just read about it again.

[B]

Then there's ocean.

[A]

What's ocean?

[B]

Ocean's when you're soaking and a friend jumps on the mattress for you.

[A]

Oh, I thought someone could. Someone shook you.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's what I mean. Ocean.

[A]

Okay. Oh. So soaking's just going in and landing.

[B]

Soaking's just staying. The ocean is in and someone's helping, like, manipulate a natural force like the mattress.

[A]

So the saddest three way of all time.

[B]

Well, I mean, you know, if you're being soaked in or you're soaking, that's great.

[A]

But.

[B]

Yeah, if you're the friend who's asked her to punch the mattress a few times and. But there's a worse one.

[A]

What?

[B]

Which is bagpiping.

[A]

This isn't real.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[A]

Okay, armpit, stop talking. Why would you want to do that?

[B]

Because you, you know, you gotta. Look, honestly, I think if I were God, I'd be like, just put it in the vagina.

[A]

If you said bagpiping, I would think that would be blowjob. Tickle the balls.

[B]

Yeah, that's more like wizard's pipe.

[A]

Okay, but none of that's here yet. These are just people, like, reading a book, and it's not.

[B]

That'd be amazing if it was there right away. We figured out a way to what this is, like, week three.

[A]

So, in 1832, Brigham was baptized into the Church of Mormon with his father. And in those early days, any male convert who didn't seem like a idiot was immediately promoted to elder. Okay, quote the Sunday morning on which I was baptized in my own little mill stream. I was ordained to the office of an elder before my clothes were dry. Upon me.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That's a pretty good deal.

[B]

That is it. It. Like you said, it's just, like, easy to just kind of, you know, you're elevated quickly. It is. You're. You're joining. It's a startup. Yeah.

[A]

You're coming in. In Amway. Top floor.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Top of the pyramid.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

In September 19th. Sorry, 1832, Miriam died of consumption. Brigham.

[B]

There's a little bit of that going around.

[A]

Brigham wasn't there, but his best friend Heber said that she clapped and praised the Lord before she died.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which a lot of people apparently are doing.

[B]

That is a weird way to go.

[A]

Apparently. That's a thing that's happening right now.

[B]

Yes. Yes. I'm gonna see my God.

[A]

Quote. Within weeks of Miriam's death, Brigham left his children with Villette Veladi Kimball. It's Heber's wife.

[B]

I just checked AI and it's actually pronounced Mayonnaise.

[A]

V I, L, A, T, E, V. Sure. And along with his brother Jose and friend Heber began a journey to Ohio to meet the prophet of his new faith.

[B]

This is Josie. This is Joe Boy.

[A]

So that's. That's a bonus on this. Over Christianity is that you can go meet your Jesus.

[B]

Go meet the CEO.

[A]

Yeah. Of God Corp. Joseph Smith was living in Northern Ohio.

[B]

All I would be doing is trying to poke holes in the plates. Should do we get into the plates?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They were shocked that he was so close to them in age and education.

[B]

What's up?

[A]

Hey. Brigham was four years older and a few inches shorter.

[B]

Gonna say four years old.

[A]

Well, that's happened.

[B]

But okay, so he's.

[A]

Your profit being shorter is wild.

[B]

I like it. Like Yoda today.

[A]

That wouldn't go.

[B]

No, no. It's like whenever presidential candidates, they're always like.

[A]

Joseph liked wrestling. Was charming.

[B]

Hey, you guys, who wants to get on the mud with old Joey? Come on.

[A]

Who wants to take on the profit?

[B]

He's tiny. Trying to wrestle all the time.

[A]

Little guys are. There's a lot of little guys that do wrestling.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's a thing like in there was. There's a news story right now of a guy who's 55 who want to the national championship and his girlfriend is 6 3.

[B]

Isn't there bigger news stories through who?

[A]

There is that story. I think CBS Sports put that one up.

[B]

Well, CBS is really only putting out important stuff right now, so.

[A]

So he likes wrestling. He's charming. He laughs a lot. Brigham quote here. My joy was full at the privilege of shaking the hand of the prophet of God and receiving the sure testimony of. By the spirit of prophecy that he was all that any man could believe him to be as a true prophet. He was happy to see us. And he bit us. Welcome. He called upon me to pray, and in prayer, I spoke in tongues. As soon as we arose from our knees, the brethren flocked around him and asked his opinion concerning the gift of tongues. That was upon me. And he told them, it is of God.

[B]

It's funny, because in Mormonism, I don't think your wife is allowed to receive the gift of tongues, Gareth. Isn't that right? Is it?

[A]

I don't know if that's against the.

[B]

Ah, I don't know.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

Come on. Any recent religion created by a white guy is most likely like. And also, no going down on the woman. It's kind of. It's very confusing.

[A]

How else do you keep six wives happy?

[B]

Oh, my God, the chiseled jaws on the Mormons. Christ, look at that jaw. He's eating six.

[A]

So Brigham is blessed by so. Yeah, we know what it's. Yeah, we got it.

[B]

Bring two before me. I'll work both.

[A]

So Brigham is blessed, bruh. Brigham is blessed by the prophet.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Heber claims that Joseph said in that first meeting, the Brigham Young quote, will yet preside over the church.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

But others claim he said, quote, if Brigham Young ever becomes president of the church, he will lead it to hell.

[B]

Same thing.

[A]

So there's just.

[B]

Just a couple words. Off.

[A]

It's just slightly off.

[B]

He's gonna do it. Great. This man will ruin everything we've built. Someone write this down.

[A]

Imagine you met this guy, this religious, like, 14 people, and he's like, well, this guy's gonna everything. But you're an elder.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Brigham and Smith's upbringings were remarkably similar. Joseph Smith. Smith Jr. Was born in Vermont in 1805 to a very poor family. He also moved to New York when he was young. Like Brigham's family. His family were very religious, but more prone to being part of weird sex talk to me. His father was convinced he would stumble across gold in the ground and tried various methods to find buried treasure, like divining rods or sprigs of witch hazel or things of that nature. Just trying different.

[B]

Hold on, let's have a dig.

[A]

If all four of my sons lick that rock, gold shall spring forth. Boys.

[B]

Strengthen those jaws for your Future, lads neighbor.

[A]

St. Joseph and his father told wild tales of finding buried treasure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There's no evidence they found any.

[B]

That. That's so man already.

[A]

That put coming together Right.

[B]

Little, like, traumatic seed.

[A]

How that.

[B]

And now, if you just happen to be born in Utah, you're like, yeah. Because he found plates. Because his dad was like, let's try here for treasure.

[A]

I mean, it's so. Yeah, the light is just. You're a kid. Your dad keeps saying he found gold, that he never did.

[B]

Dad keeps stopping your walks for treasure.

[A]

Other people are making fun of you. The other kids are.

[B]

You think a metal detector guy on the beach is sad? Imagine before they even had that, your dad was just holding, like, a little bit of, like, brush. Like, here's good. Dad. It takes so long. Trust me.

[A]

Dig, God damn it.

[B]

Just more bird skeletons.

[A]

Now. When the treasure didn't appear, he would claim an evil spirit must have taken it.

[B]

A goddamn demon.

[A]

Oh, Jesus Christ. He's every single treasure hole. The demons have gotten there first.

[B]

They're so good.

[A]

Traveling preachers would convert people to new denominations. At 15, his parents and three siblings became Presbyterians. And Joseph went into the woods and prayed. Quote, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me. When the light rested upon me, I saw two personages whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name, and said, pointing to the other, this is my beloved son. Hear him. Joseph asked the angels, one of which was Jesus, which religion he should join, and was told, they're all corrupt. So just Jesus said that? Yeah. So just they're all about you. So Joseph told his family that Presbyterianism wasn't true, and he argued with visiting clergy, and he told this vision he was. And he was told this. His vision was a thing of the past and didn't happen anymore. So they're like, man, Jesus isn't coming and talking to people anymore. That shit's over, bro. This didn't happen.

[C]

And.

[A]

But he's like, jesus.

[B]

Jesus was there.

[A]

Jesus. And another Lutherans.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Another angel, by the way.

[B]

What, like a side angel?

[A]

Side angel. Jesus's wingman.

[B]

This is my intern.

[A]

This is Barry. How are you?

[B]

Hello. Jesus and I have been working together for a little while, by the way, when I got involved with his finances. He might be great as a spirit and the leader of a religion, but when it comes to receipts, this guy doesn't really know what he was doing. And we're changing his name.

[A]

On September 21, 1823, Joseph was visited by another shining white angel.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Hi. I'm Reg.

[B]

Hello. They call me Timothy.

[A]

This was actually Moroni.

[B]

Hello?

[A]

A message.

[B]

I'm like baloney, but with an M, but different.

[A]

N. Neroni.

[B]

No. Ma Roni.

[A]

Is that a drink?

[B]

Yes. Oh, Prince got those little sweet cherries.

[A]

I love those.

[B]

But focus on what we're talking about.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think you're thinking of Negronis.

[A]

Oh, I am.

[B]

Yes. I'm Moroni.

[A]

Nanoni.

[B]

I don't have much time, so let's really get into this.

[A]

Are you the right. Are you from rice? Are you one of the rice of Roni flavors?

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no. So it's very important that I give you this message from God.

[A]

Go.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Oh, I'm all ears.

[B]

My time.

[A]

Moroni, of course, is a messenger from God. He said there was a book written on gold plates about the history of the Israelites in America. And two stones in silver bows which could translate the books.

[B]

The plates. So the plates are written in gibberish. And then you have to Rosetta them out with your little babblestone.

[A]

You gotta get your duolingo program.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He said to find the goods, but do not show them to anyone or ye shall be struck down.

[B]

A flaw. A weird decision.

[A]

Then he filled the room with a blinding light and opened a conduit to heaven. And he went up. I don't know if he made any noise. Doesn't say he made no.

[B]

Ladies and gentlemen, Maroney.

[A]

As Joseph was thinking about this really weird visit, Maroney returned to say the same thing again.

[B]

I forgot my keys.

[A]

All right, I'll say it again. Look for the plates. Couple of stones.

[B]

Did I tell you everything?

[A]

He also added to this. Now he warms of famine and plagues that would come if human beings aren't careful. So like. So if human beings aren't careful, the same thing that's always happened will happen.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is basically weather based. Yes. Then imagine he went back to heaven.

[B]

Now I'm out of here for real.

[A]

Bye bye. Comes back a third time.

[B]

Hey, this is super embarrassing.

[A]

Repeats the same story.

[B]

And now I have dementia ads.

[A]

My name, I'm pretty sure, is Mamoni.

[B]

Have you heard the one? But have I been here before? I'm doing like a few of these.

[A]

This seems really familiar.

[B]

My notes are. I spilled some water on my notes.

[A]

He now adds that Satan would tempt Joseph to show him the plates. So he cannot show anyone the plates.

[B]

Look, even if the devil comes and asks for the plates. No. Now I'm really going now.

[A]

Wait. Are you my son?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

What are we doing? While working in Their fields. The next day, Joseph fainted while he was up all night with the talking to an angel. Angel. And Maroney comes for a fourth time.

[B]

All right, look, I need some money. I put everything into burying these plates.

[A]

And now he's like, hey, you can tell your dad.

[B]

You can tell your dad just because he's super into bear. Like, he's super into buried stuff.

[A]

I like that guy. Josephiner agrees it must be God and said Joseph should go find the plates immediately, which were conveniently located very close to the farm. Well, that's very lucky.

[B]

Yeah, but that's why they went to him. They were like, hey, we put them in your yard. Why not just hand them to him?

[A]

So you think they picked a profit based on location of the plates? Yeah.

[B]

Make it means he needs his energy to dig it up.

[A]

So he goes there and under a rock, Joseph found a box with the gold plates and the stones.

[B]

How big are the plates?

[A]

I don't know. I should have looked huge. I didn't think about that.

[B]

They have to be huge. I mean, because they basically wrote a Bible on plates.

[A]

No, it's not a. It's not a whole Bible.

[B]

It's just like some.

[A]

It's just like the New Testament type.

[B]

So it's just some stuff.

[A]

Not the New Testament. It's just like Moses's.

[B]

The. Moses's diary.

[A]

His words on the tablets.

[B]

Hey, it's called.

[A]

What they put on the tablets.

[B]

The Commandments.

[A]

Commandments. He put. It's probably the commandments on the tablets.

[B]

Paper was awesome.

[A]

So he started to take them, but then the angel came and said he should keep them buried for four years and pop back once a year for instructions. So.

[B]

Okay, hold on. But now rebury them and to come back in four years.

[A]

No, once a year. Once a year for instructions.

[B]

For more. And I'll meet you every year here.

[A]

I'll be. And I'll have new stuff for you to do.

[B]

I'm working on some new stuff. I'll have a better word.

[A]

I know it seems weird. It almost seems like you're making it up as you go along, but that's not what's happening. You're not you. Here's the thing. We're trying to figure this out too.

[B]

We really are looking more like. For a collaborator.

[A]

Yeah. So you come here once a year and we'll shoot the. And we'll come up with some stuffs and then. And then we'll hear you.

[B]

Would it have not made more sense for you to just come when everything had sort of. When you were ready to talk to me.

[A]

We like to hear your feedback. So we're.

[B]

I am merely your servant, ready to do the bidding that you require.

[A]

And that's the kind of feedback we like. So I'm going to take that back to the guys. I'm going to tell them we got a whole reg.

[B]

There's a bunch of us.

[A]

Barry. There's a ton of Timothy. There's a lot. A lot of guys.

[B]

Okay. And so I'll meet you in a.

[A]

Year here, and we'll round table, and we'll come back and we'll have more stuff for you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then we'll get your feedback.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I'll go back up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it'll be a whole.

[B]

I will see you in a year, Maroney.

[A]

I guess I. I forgot how to.

[B]

Feels like it's kind of like.

[A]

Well, I forgot how to shoot back up into this guy.

[B]

All right, well, I'm gonna. I gotta go back. So I guess you'll just sort of.

[A]

If you could leave. Yeah, I'll take off and I'll stay here.

[B]

Bye. Bye, Maroney. In one year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. See you later.

[A]

I'm a little worried that I don't remember how to get back up.

[B]

Okay. Well, I. We'll see in a year. As far as our time together, I'm.

[A]

A little worried about eating and, like, food.

[B]

All right, I'll see you later, buddy.

[A]

If I'm here for a while. Bye.

[B]

Bye. He's still out there.

[A]

So the money situation is still bad in the Smith house, even though he has these gold plates.

[B]

Well, but that's like. He's got a bunch of, like, crypto he's just sitting on.

[A]

I know, but could you imagine having gold plates and being poor and not selling them?

[B]

He's really. They were very heavy with gold.

[A]

So he gets a job digging for a silver mine in Pennsylvania, which is non existent. He meets Emma, daughter of a wealthy farmer, Isaac. Isaac does not like Joseph. And when asked for permission to marry Emma, Isaac's like, no, you're not marrying my daughter.

[B]

That was a great thing. That was a great thing to have to just be like, no, no, sorry.

[A]

Nope, she's mine.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

You think I put that purity ring on her finger so some like you could get it?

[B]

Mike Johnson has with his daughter.

[A]

It's nice. So they eloped on September 22, 1827. He's 21, by the way.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

It was finally the time to unearth the gold plates. Ah. And that night, Brigham Young, living 15 miles away, saw strange Lights in the sky. Quote, the light was perfectly clear and remained for several hours. It formed into men as if there were great armies in the west. And then I saw in the northwest, armies of men come up. It was a very remarkable occurrence. So you're just hanging out one night, and then you look up in the sky and you see armies of. Of men. Great armies up in the sky. Sky armies. And you. Later on, you put that together. Oh, that's when. That's when Joe went and pulled up the gold plates.

[B]

That was his mess, that he knew to do it that night because of the armies.

[A]

Well, they must have put it together later because they didn't know each other then.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But later on that and talking and been like, oh, my God.

[C]

On.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Oh, on September 22nd, that was the night he looked up in the sky and saw the armies of. Armies of men.

[B]

The men.

[A]

It all makes sense.

[B]

There's not been one part that seems a bit strange yet.

[A]

So, Joseph.

[B]

This is how stuff works.

[A]

Yep. So Joseph hides the bags in a plate.

[B]

Hides the bags in a blood.

[A]

Sorry. He hits the plates in a bag, and he goes to Harmony, Pennsylvania.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And there a man worth 10,000 named Martin Harris.

[B]

Call me Marty.

[A]

He. He feels. He get. He feels the. Joseph's divine inspiration. He feels it. He feels it. And he invests in Joseph's new golden Bible.

[B]

The golden Bible.

[A]

And he helps Joseph translate the plates, but he never gets to actually lay eyes on the plates.

[B]

So how does he help him translate it? Joseph just reads it to him. And then he uses the stones.

[A]

Well, they're separated by a curtain, just like what you do.

[B]

So Joseph is behind a curtain, alone with the plates.

[A]

He dictates them. And then Martin writes.

[B]

Can I maybe just see it real quick? It's right there. I just. I'd love to see it. No, stay behind the sheet. I'm telling you, though, they're amazing. It would be so cool to have this just even for a future corroboration.

[A]

If you look at them, we all die now.

[B]

He said that? Yes, Maroney did.

[A]

He said specifically you.

[B]

If I looked at it, we'd all die.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God. How heavy are they?

[A]

They're like £4 each. Yeah.

[B]

Do they have, like, originate so you could eat off of them, or are they just flat?

[A]

I mean, I guess.

[B]

Is it on front and back?

[A]

No.

[B]

Just the front?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is there anything written on the back, like made in China or something?

[A]

No, there's nothing on the back. There's one as a.

[B]

Why didn't he just write him back. And you could have just done it in two plates.

[A]

I don't know. I. I don't. I don't have.

[B]

Are they the same size, all of them?

[A]

I think we don't need to do.

[B]

Are the plates all the same size? I just have a lot of questions.

[A]

I mean, I get somebody else actually to.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Cuz you're. It's an.

[B]

I'll stop asking. I just love plates. That's why this is so tough for me to sit behind this curtain and wait.

[A]

Oh, you're a play guy.

[B]

I love plates. And I love bowls. Are any bowls. Did he write anything on bowls?

[A]

No, just plates.

[B]

It's crazy. Okay, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Just wanted to make sure we're. I. I got it now we're good.

[A]

Don't.

[B]

Well, I just. There's one more question. Do you want me to ask the question? Yeah. Okay. Should we eat off them?

[A]

No.

[B]

That wasn't even the question. No, my question was, should we wash them?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. All right. Where were we?

[A]

Well, we just started.

[B]

Okay. All right, here we go.

[A]

Gareth the Dollop is brought to you by Rocket Money.

[C]

Let me tell you something. Pre Rocket Money, I would spend so much time trying to keep track of my finances, the streaming and all the whatever I'm paying for there. I had a magazine, did I tell you this? I had a magazine that I was paying for for like 10 years that I didn't even know about. Discover magazine. Wow. And it would just get.

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It would just get charged. It was sent to. Well, I had an old credit card.

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That I never use anymore and I just don't really check.

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And so it, like every three years.

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Where was the magazine going? To another address. To your house?

[A]

Yeah, old address.

[B]

So some guy was like, all right, this is a good gravy truck train.

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[B]

There is a. It is a fairly predatory industry to some extent to get you to sign up for the free trip. They really play on how dumb we're getting because you're like, yeah, I'll do that. And then Future use. Like wait what, not a year?

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And I'm like, listen, they do a lot of stuff over there at Rocket Money, but that is to me, that's their legacy. The free trial bouncer.

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Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's what Rocket Money is really best at. But Rocket Money does a ton of other stuff. It can consolidate checking and savings and loans and investments into a single dashboard and give you just a clear view of, of the financial picture. So it's great. It's saved me a ton of money. Saved me money on my, my Internet. They renegotiated that money.

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It says no, absolutely.

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[C]

Well, if they like it so much, why does it change every time?

[B]

They said find it forever is what they're not like.

[C]

Look, the doll was also brought to by Chewy. And if you're a pet parent, like just use Chewy.

[B]

45 minutes ago, I have three dogs.

[C]

Gareth has a very unfortunate abusive situation with his cat.

[B]

Wrong liar.

[C]

Beats him, beats Gareth. But you probably know about Chewy like me. And when you say they have everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy. They're not messing around, Gareth. They are completely serious because that's what happens.

[B]

Yep.

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A day or two. And then, like I said, I mean, there's never a problem, but anytime I've gone, like, you know what? This isn't what I thought it was, I want to return it. They answer the phone like you're calling a friend.

[C]

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[B]

24 7. But there's no hold. Who. What company is no hold.

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No, no, none. But they also do birds and fashion fish and reptiles and everything.

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And fashion.

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They do birds, fashion, everything. I've been wearing a lot of the.

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Stuff I ordered from Chewy, so we.

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[A]

Let'S.

[C]

Let's talk about your hair, because we're talking about Nutrival. I shaved all my hair off. I decided to see what I look like bald, and I'm not taking my hat off because I don't like it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So.

[C]

So, Gareth, your hair looks wonderful.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

And you use Nutrafol? Yep.

[B]

I. I don't know what month I'm on, but I. I'm a big fan of Neutrophil. And like I said, more and more people are using Nutrafol, but it could not be easier, more straightforward, whatever it is. I don't know what little stuff they're putting in there, but I'm eating it. I mean. I mean about 80 pills a day. So I'm trying to just move there.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

I'm trying to move their timeline up. Couple buddy. I want to get a little rock star hair going.

[A]

That's not how it works. I'm under pressure.

[B]

I got a shoot where I said I had locks.

[C]

Please follow the instructions.

[B]

Yeah, I think everyone else should follow everyone else follow the instructions. But it's not just, they have so much stuff going on. They really have. I feel like we've been there with their growth. It feels like their business is taking Neutropol for. I'm lost. In the sauce here a little bit.

[C]

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Plus it is the.

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I was just gonna say there's no downsides to this. None.

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Joseph's father in law asked to see the plates, but Joseph said the angel Justice. The angel said only Joseph's male heir could see them.

[B]

Oh, so someone could see it.

[A]

His male heir, this kid Emma, gave birth to a son. Boom, there you go. Male heir. But then he died. Martin begged Joseph to take the manuscript to Palmyra to show his wife and convince her. He's like, my wife wonders what I'm doing here.

[B]

She thinks I'm cheating.

[A]

She's in a place.

[B]

Can you just show her one of the plates real quick?

[A]

And so Joseph asked God if he can do that. And God's like, that's a bad idea, dude.

[B]

How many times?

[A]

Holy. Enough. What did I say? What did I say?

[C]

It.

[B]

I'm gonna bury him so someone else will dig him up.

[A]

But Martin persisted and presumably threatened to pull financial support. Look, I'm not gonna fund this if I can't get a looksie.

[B]

I need to see a plate.

[A]

So God eventually said, okay.

[B]

That'S so non God to me.

[A]

That's what God does. God's like, well, if you're gonna pull funding, Christ, goddamn VC. Guys, here's the thing.

[B]

Yeah, okay, show her one of the plates real quick. Okay, show her the second plate real quick.

[A]

Oh, no, wait, it's not the plate. Martin took the 116 pages of his new Bible with the promise to only show it to his wife and a couple other people.

[B]

Oh, so it's.

[A]

She doesn't even get the new book.

[B]

She's like, what the is this? And he's like, it's.

[A]

This is what I've been working on.

[B]

This is what the plate says.

[A]

This is dumb.

[B]

There's 116 pages worth of stuff written on these plates.

[A]

Very small writing. What.

[B]

We should have just written it on some paper.

[A]

When he didn't return after a few weeks, Joseph went to Palmyra and Martin said he had lost it.

[B]

What? Dude?

[A]

So here's the thing.

[B]

Where is it?

[A]

I got really drunk with. Okay, do you know Reg?

[B]

No, but. So, okay, so anyway, we got. Oh, I do know Rich.

[A]

And we were out. We were out. I mean, I'll call it Bibleing. We're out Bibleing and okay, we're shit faced and we're doing the Bible stuff that you do. What are you doing? Okay, just reading it to people and like throwing in people's faces.

[B]

You were only allowed to read it.

[A]

To your wife and being like, hey.

[B]

The only person you were allowed to talk tell about it was your wife.

[A]

I mean, you know, we had some Jagermeister. So we're. And Goldschlager. So we're, we're combining and. And then I was like, hey, where is it? He's like, I thought you had it. And I was like, I thought you.

[B]

Why would you give it to any else? You should not relinquish the. This is the translated plate papers I had.

[A]

Well, I was doing handstands, so I had to give it to him because I was a guy was like, if that's.

[B]

Where is it?

[A]

A guy was like, where is it? That's the Bible. Then you should be able to do a hand stamp for a minute.

[B]

And I was like, guys, dare. Made no sense at all.

[A]

Well, he was wrong number one.

[B]

So what, where is it now?

[A]

That's the question.

[B]

That's my question.

[A]

So we think God took it.

[B]

Oh my God. He wouldn't have taken it. The whole point of the whole Thing was for us to translate it.

[A]

It.

[B]

Gosh.

[A]

Maybe this is how it's supposed to be.

[B]

It isn't he.

[A]

Well then explain why God made Jager and Goldschlager just did. Have you considered that maybe your religion isn't a good one? That if it was a good one, this wouldn't have happened?

[B]

That's super weird to put that on this. So I guess we'll just start translating it again. It's the only option. And this is all because your wife wanted to see him?

[A]

You know what? I'm just gonna not.

[B]

So you're done?

[A]

Yeah, I think so. Man. It was a really fun.

[B]

I don't agree.

[A]

It was pretty fun.

[B]

I don't agree. This is work to me. We've wasted a tremendous amount of time. Yeah, translating 116 pages with two rocks.

[A]

What are you gonna do? So Joseph is obviously very upset because Martin Law it. He cried and he blamed himself for ignoring God's idea. Yeah, it is your say it was a bad idea.

[B]

That's the best.

[A]

So God, however, was forgiving and said don't worry about the first 116 pages. Just start from page 117.

[B]

What?

[A]

We'll do the back end.

[B]

I'll be honest. It was a little weird up top anyway.

[A]

Way. It's like starting with Star Wars.

[B]

Start on 117 instead of starting with.

[A]

The first three movies. Starting with Star Wars.

[B]

Begin. Return of the Jedi.

[A]

Martin's farm was hit by a mysterious fog that blighted his wheat. Boom. There you go. What do you mean it blighted his weed, his wheat.

[B]

That's how he got him back.

[A]

No, that. Well, that's what God did to him.

[B]

God? How will you retort with him? He's completely ruined our work. Don't worry. Something tells me he's gonna have a blighty wheat once I'm done fogging him.

[A]

He lost two thirds of his crop. No other farms were affected. Think about that.

[B]

It's weird.

[A]

So Joseph took a break from translating plates. But eventually got back to it with the help of a local school master. Oliver Cowdery. Terrible name. The two men were commanded by John the Baptist to baptize each other.

[B]

One, two, three, go.

[A]

No, you go first. No, I go.

[B]

In today's terms, we call that swimming.

[A]

Soon after, they went out and began converting others. Starting with the Smith family swim party. In today's terms, In June of 1829, they went to Phantom New York to finish the writing. Okay. They hung a blanket across the doorway so no one could see the Plates and Jo. Joseph sat on one side of a table and the scribe, usually Oliver or Emma, were on the other side. And Joseph put on magical spectacles and translated.

[B]

Can you imagine like being 31 and thinking about this and being like, I'm still going to be Mormon. So he put himself in a little teepee, wore his magic glasses, and they began to write from God's plates to paper that no one else could see.

[A]

They were inscribed with hieroglyphics, like text which he called Reformed Egyptian.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

When they finished 587 pages from three.

[B]

Plates and they registered the copyright, they dropped 116.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So this thing should have been like a 700 pager.

[A]

They copyrighted it to Joseph Smith Jr. Copyrighted. Got a copyright.

[B]

What?

[A]

Well, you can't let other people also.

[B]

Make sure to, you know, get that copy written and all that.

[A]

And they printed 5,000 copies for $3,000, which back then was a shitload of money. So Joseph had another revelation. Martin would be forgiven for losing the 116 pages if he paid the $3,000.

[B]

That I'd be like, dude, look, I said I was sorry.

[A]

Makes sense.

[B]

I don't have it.

[A]

And he did.

[B]

He paid it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

He had to sell his farm to do it.

[B]

Tough, dude.

[A]

You got drunk and lost it.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

So Joseph prayed with Martin Oliver and other, another benefactor from Moroni to show them the plates. And they all saw a joint vision. Okay. Joseph was very happy to have other witnesses.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

In every edition. So that's. So there's three witnesses.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

In every edition of the Book of Mormon, the testimony of these three witnesses is printed as evidence of its veracity.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So if there's three other guys that saw it, it's. It's a done deal.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Yeah. Well, as we've learned over time, four people can't be in on something, Right?

[A]

That's right. Mark Twain compared these statements to patent medicine in medicine testimonials. Twain also said that Joseph padded the book with phrases that sound scripture quote. And it came to pass was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been only a pamphlet.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Yeah. Our guy.

[B]

I go with Twain.

[A]

Yeah. All day long.

[B]

My. That's my God.

[A]

Yeah. We don't need to go into all the weird. The Book of Mormon says, but there are multiple tribes of Israelites, including Lehi, who travels to america in the 6th century BC and his descendants are the Nephites, who are the good guys.

[B]

We like them.

[A]

And the Lemonites, who are the Bad guys.

[B]

Lemonites.

[A]

Okay. So it's a guy comes to America, 6th century descendants, Nephites and Lemonites, and Jesus appears to them after his resurrection in America.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, sadly, the Nephites are annihilated around 400 AD and the native Americans were actually the Lamanites. So the Lamanites are the black. Black. The bad guys.

[B]

Okay. In the. In the Book of Mormon, quote, with.

[A]

A skin of blackness.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We do learn, I think, that the color of your skin is very important.

[A]

Very. And they were cursed for. By God, for their unbelief. Right. But one day they would accept the gospel and become a, quote, white and delightsome people.

[B]

Oh, okay. So the. Once they. Right.

[A]

When they whiten up, we don't.

[B]

Right. Once they get white.

[A]

Yeah, they got a white.

[B]

Just get white. Would y' all just get white already?

[A]

You need to cook more flavorless food.

[B]

Please, please leave our land.

[A]

Stop dancing.

[B]

Y' all just need to be a little more white.

[A]

In April 1830, Smith founded what he called the Church of Christ with 40 to 50 followers.

[B]

If only it just.

[A]

That month. That month, the prophet's brother met the Young family. So when Brigham Young comes, there's only 40 to 50 people.

[B]

He's very early.

[A]

Yes. So that. He's ground floor.

[B]

He's there.

[A]

And that's.

[B]

I don't know. There was just an energy at that time. You know what I mean? I met Waz, and I was sort of like, oh, this guy's pretty cool.

[A]

So he's. He's in Joseph Smith's flock. And Brigham went on a mission around eastern Ontario during the winter of 32, 33.

[B]

And what you're just kind of going and pitching, like you're pitching.

[A]

You're pitching it.

[B]

How are you, ma'? Am? Is your husband home? Well, allow me very quickly, before we get into it, to ask you if you're satisfied with the current religion you have. Do you feel a good connection to God?

[A]

It's okay.

[B]

Interesting. I mean, I think that's the way a lot of us have felt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I want to just tell you about a guy I know from Vermont originally named Joseph Smith, who had a conversation with a guy whose name sounds a lot like baloney God buried. I like baloney plates. That's great. He buried three plates in Joseph's backyard, and Joseph recently dug him up, and with the help of a couple different people, used some stones that were buried with the plates again. On the plates were scripture, and they translated the plate scripture onto some sort of, you know, Document that We're now going out there and just letting people try again. I'm sure that you, like me, have, you know, you feel good about your religion, but I'm telling you, this new one is hot, jazzy, and it's cheaper than anything. I mean, you're going to be saving 20 to 30 bucks a month on religious stuff yet alone.

[A]

It just sounds like I would have to do a lot of homework.

[B]

You really don't. I mean, you just have to read it. By the way, this is not the sort of thing you're going to want to put down.

[A]

I mean, test.

[B]

There's no test. The only test is at the end of our life when we go before our creator.

[A]

I already have that, so.

[B]

Yeah, I know, but I just. Look, all I'm gonna say is, do you mind if I leave the Book of Mormon and maybe you just give it a little bit of read? If you're interested, we can leave it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Great. That's all I'm looking to do, and, you know, I'm just very excited for you. I will tell you, I've been. I've been Mormon for about two months, and it is way better than anything.

[A]

Wait, is this a bill for the book?

[B]

Yeah, the bill is for the book. Yeah, but. But again, that. That goes right back into the system. So that. Where that. That money that you. I've given us to buy that book, that goes right back into the system. So we're. We're taking that right back, and we're to make more books.

[A]

It's weird that you call it a system.

[B]

The system. Exactly. God, system.

[A]

Them.

[B]

Exactly. So, yeah, just let us know what you think, and I'll be making the rounds around the neighborhood and. Great. By the way, there's no in this one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Great.

[B]

Yeah. Buffet. Shut. You understand?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, we're in. Uh, let me ask you one thing.

[A]

Y.

[B]

Is one of your questions. Has anyone else seen the plates?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. Because I got news for you. We had to do it all under a sheet. So the only person who's seen the plates is Joseph Smith, but that was per Maroney's request.

[A]

So it's like a ghost book.

[B]

He did it like he was under his sheets during a storm and a child reading a book. Yep.

[A]

Okay, thanks.

[B]

See you later.

[A]

Bye. So he goes on a mission. He has. He holds 40 meetings, and he pulls in 14 converts.

[B]

Pretty good.

[A]

It's not bad. That's not great, because it's a crazy idea.

[B]

14?

[A]

No, it actually is It's a crazy idea.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People are just looking for something.

[B]

I mean, but if you watch any cult doc today, it's like you can get. You. You peel off people pretty easy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You just. You gotta find just some actors or some needy people.

[A]

That's right, needy people. Well, in July 1833, Brigham returned to Kirtland, which is where they are centered.

[B]

I don't care.

[A]

With some of the new converts, and church elders began referring to their movement as the Church of Latter Day Saints and its members as Saints.

[B]

So Latter Day, meaning recent, like so. New Saints.

[A]

New Saints.

[B]

The new Saints.

[A]

Yeah. Brigham and Joseph began talking about creating a Mormon city. Brigham brought his children to Kirkland, and many members pledged land to the new church, which Brigham couldn't do because he was poor. No land, but he could use his building skills to help. Now Brigham needed a new wife to look after the kids 100%. He'd been relying on Heber's wife, and he and another new convert courted a woman named Julia Foster. Her.

[B]

They both courted her.

[A]

Both into her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Brigham told the other guy, quote, he could have the first chance of popping the question, and if Sister Foster did not accept him, then he would try his luck.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And she. She took the other guy.

[B]

She did, yeah. Did she say. What did she say?

[A]

I don't know. We just know that he. He was second in line and it never got to him.

[B]

So she said yeah to the other guy.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

What's a weird way to, like, hedge your bet? Why don't you propose first?

[A]

You take the first shot.

[B]

Propose to her. How did it go?

[A]

We're married.

[B]

Ha.

[A]

It seemed like a good plan, though.

[B]

No, Well, I. Yeah, I should have gone first, probably in retrospect. Okay, well, good luck.

[A]

You want to soak?

[B]

No.

[A]

Then came Mary and Angel, a free will Baptist. I don't know what that means.

[B]

Well, why don't you propose to her first and when she says no, it'll be my time.

[A]

She came to Kirtland interested in Mormonism. She was into Brigham after seeing him preach, and they married in March of 1834. Now, local vigilantes in Jackson County, Missouri, had previously threatened Mormons, telling them to leave within six months or they would destroy their property.

[B]

They really were ahead of their time.

[A]

The non Mormons were alarmed by the amount of Saints pouring into the area. Yeah, anytime there's a bunch of. Yeah. Nobody wants that.

[B]

Well, it's. I mean, but to be fair, it's like rock and roll. It's like your Parents are always like, what are you doing? Turn that music down. It's like they were just like. This was like. They were like, yeah, y' all wouldn't understand.

[A]

God.

[B]

God buried plates.

[A]

Well, they're saying they have a divine appointment to build science. So people are rolling in, being like, we're gonna build Zion. Everyone's like, I just. In Jackson, can we just have our farmland?

[B]

Like, no, you're not.

[A]

I don't want a Zion.

[B]

What are you building?

[A]

It's like building a data center.

[B]

You're not. Hey, what are you doing?

[A]

After skirmish in 1833, the Mormons begrudgingly left. So those Missouri Mormons came to join Joseph in Ohio. But they were pissed off and wanted to know, quote, when, how and by what means Zion was to be redeemed from our enemies. Joseph recruited 200 men to form the soldiers of Israel to go to Jackson county and reclaim their land.

[B]

So they go to Ohio with their tail between their legs, and then he's like, just go back there and just make it Zion.

[A]

Well, he got a bunch of. Dude, he made an army. Basically.

[B]

Got like, yeah, he got some muscle.

[A]

We're getting our back.

[B]

Go, go beat him up.

[A]

Well, the one thing they can't.

[B]

So weak for Joseph Smith to be like, would you guys go over there and get Zion back?

[A]

The one thing they can't lose is land, because that's money, right? Quote. Smith likened himself to Moses leading the children of Israel out of Egypt to a latter day Zion with unhesitating submission to his prophet. Brigham Young immediately volunteered as a soldier in Israel's army, soon known as Zion's camp, and followed Joseph Smith 1,000 miles to the Missouri River.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's not a thousand miles. Anyway, on the way to Missouri, the Mormon army came across a First nations burial ground and found a skeleton with an arrow in its chest.

[B]

Skeleton with an arrow. Still, that. No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, no, that. That could. Well, it's a skeleton probably. It probably has. Yeah. I could see an arrow. Could stay in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I don't know. It. Maybe it's just laying, but also like, if it's in a burial ground, that means it's buried. Although I don't know if this was like there, but in the west they would bury them on platforms. So I don't know.

[B]

That's how I want to be done.

[A]

That's how you are going to be done. Joseph had a vision that this was a warrior named Zelf.

[B]

You mean one of the bad guys from Superman? This is Zelf.

[A]

What?

[B]

It's an app to pay each other.

[A]

Wait, do you know what names are?

[B]

Yeah, Zelf. Then this guy's Karg. Zelp.

[A]

Zelf was a white laminate, which is what they want, right?

[B]

Right. That's who did my kitchen floor.

[A]

Who fought in a great battle described in the Book of Mormon. So this guy is already a guy that they know about because he's in the book?

[B]

How do you know he's white? Look at the bones. Come on. They're as white as bleach.

[A]

Brigham kept the arrow and rejoiced at this proof of the new scripture's authenticity.

[B]

That would be like where I'd be like, I think this motherfucker's full of shit.

[A]

Yeah. This is absolute garbage.

[B]

Ah, look, this arrow. We're on the right path, boys.

[A]

Page 34. Read about it.

[B]

What? What is he doing? Woohoo.

[A]

I mean, I guess you're just all in it. So you all like, it's cults. This what happens.

[B]

It's just, just nobody says anything. And then getting worse.

[A]

Cuz if you, if you, if you're like, no, it's not. Then all of a sudden nobody likes you.

[B]

Then you're going to be left in the middle of nowhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you got to just be like quietly to yourself. Like until eventually like there's like five people who like.

[A]

Like.

[B]

It's been getting pretty weird.

[A]

The self thing really was.

[B]

That was crazy. Why? Yeah, who wants to sleep with the arrow?

[A]

It's weird. I. I do.

[B]

Yeah, that'll be great for you.

[A]

Like, what the.

[B]

I don't know, dude. He's definitely going. I mean, honestly, the more I think about the plates thing, I'm like, what.

[A]

Is he, the plates thing? Yeah.

[B]

Now that the arrow tastes of a salty hand. We're making it.

[A]

Yeah, See that's the kind of stuff that I just. Yeah.

[C]

I can't.

[B]

Well, I. I just don't. I don't even foundationally. I'm starting to be like, I was in a dark spot when I started following him.

[A]

Can I just say, Zeal, Zelf is weird. Like, what is that?

[B]

We should all be eating Z's bones.

[A]

See, this is where I'm checking out. Like I am checking out.

[B]

Obviously has no clue what the he's talking about.

[A]

Yeah, we're coming.

[B]

Hurry.

[A]

200 Mormons marching to Zion. Which isn't a.

[B]

Which is Jackson, Missouri.

[A]

Made an already volatile situation worse. Even though they tried to disguise himself as Baptist.

[B]

How are you all?

[A]

We're walking Baptist. We're walking Baptist. Here we come. We are Baptized.

[B]

Hey, it's a little arch.

[A]

At this time then. Oh, no, they're Baptist. They're fine.

[B]

Like the warriors.

[A]

The gentiles still heard they were coming. Quote, venomous mobs prepared a hostile welcome them.

[B]

It really is like religious. If warriors were about like sects of. Of Christianity. I mean, because they're all basically Bible. Yeah, but they're just like, nah, nah, nah.

[A]

Yeah. What's one?

[B]

You're way off base.

[A]

It's always one guy wanting power, so he creates a different version of it.

[B]

No, a cracker isn't the body.

[A]

There are also unhappy troops and grumblings amongst the Saints. One follow quote, threatened to kill a bulldog that one of the troops had given to Joseph.

[B]

Let's all chill out.

[A]

Hey, guys, guys, let's not take the out on the dogs. Not the dog. Joseph threatened to whip him. So things aren't going great.

[B]

I'll whip you.

[A]

As they camped next to a river, the anti Mormons prepared to attack. A hailstorm prevented it. But what seemed like a godly intervention turned bad when they started to get sick with cholera. Quote. Smith and his followers interpreted the disease as the work of the destroyer, the biblical personification of death. The epidemic claimed 14 lives, and Smith pronounced it God's judgment of his followers inequities. See, you guys suck. Yeah, we heard you talking about the Zelf stuff and all that. And the plates. We heard it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So why do you think your buddy died? It's because of that. It's on you, man.

[B]

Zelf has been a. A key in all of this.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

The discovery of Zelf was huge.

[A]

All right, so now you won't diet, diarrhea and stuff. So.

[B]

All right, good talk.

[A]

So they. They charge back to Ohio, defeated, deflated, bombed.

[B]

How did it go?

[A]

Not good.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

But instead of seeing this as a failed military operation, Brigham felt it was a spiritual quest. He was impressed by Joseph's leadership and believed Joseph saved lives by repenting and retreating.

[B]

Ah, smart. Ah.

[A]

The next month, Joseph appointed Brigham to the Kirtland High Council. Brigham and Heber Kimball were also made members of the quorum of the 12 apostles.

[B]

That's a hell of a club, by the way.

[A]

That is a great gig.

[B]

What a great bar name for Salt Lake.

[A]

I wonder what they would do.

[B]

Oh my God. You're just like. Yeah, these are our mixologists.

[A]

Is.

[B]

No. What are you doing? No. Hello? Quorum of the Self. Quorum of the twelve Apostles.

[A]

What the. What are you guys doing? You can't do that.

[B]

Quorum of the twelve Apostles.

[A]

The quorum held, quote, the keys of this ministry to unlock the door of the kingdom of heaven unto all nations and to preach the gospel to every creature.

[B]

Well, none of these. They never have gotten into heaven, like, early.

[A]

No.

[B]

Like, there's never been, like, a little door opening up, and they're like, you finally cracked it.

[A]

So these 12 guys might also receive direct messages from angels and God. So that's pretty good. So he created another church body, the 70.

[B]

The 70?

[A]

Yep. Brigham's brother, Joseph Young, was on the 70. He's just making committees.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Joseph would go on sprees of invented committees and authoritative bodies and then not make it clear where authority lay day. So he's literally just putting guys into groups so they feel better about themselves.

[B]

These, by the way, it worked, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm on the 70s, so.

[A]

Oh, are you? I'm on the Quorum of 12 Apostles. Yeah.

[B]

He put me in the Jesus pool.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, he told me that there. That I have. I. Every time I go swim in that pond, that it's very good for all of this.

[A]

What?

[B]

And it's just me who does it, too. No one else goes out there on account of that's where all the sewer goes, because a lot of people have been pooping in the pool of Jesus, so I'm the only one who could go swimming it. Like a special boy.

[C]

So you.

[A]

You can only swim in the ship pool?

[B]

Yeah, the Jesus pool. Yeah.

[A]

Well, it's. It's a ship.

[B]

Everyone's feces goes there. Yeah.

[A]

It's ship.

[B]

Yep. Just me.

[A]

Only you.

[B]

Only me.

[A]

How are you feeling, by the way?

[B]

One of my eyes isn't working, but that's obviously pretty good news.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And as far as the skin goes, the eczema has never been worse.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think I'm molting into whatever my next form is going to be, which is pretty good. And by the way, truth is, even though he said not to drink that water I've been drinking.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know what they say about drinking the Jesus pool water?

[A]

Yeah. Don't do it.

[B]

You make more.

[A]

So that's how there's always water in there.

[B]

Well, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It's you.

[B]

Yeah, I'm out there 12, 15 hours a day in it because I'm the only one. By the way, congrats on your little stuff over there. But you got to share those positions with other people, right?

[A]

Right. Yeah. There's 12 of us. Cool. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Just me out there in the Jesus pool.

[A]

Yeah. Don't come by my mansion. I Just.

[B]

I won't be able to. I'm swamped over there in the swamp.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Really, really busy over in that water.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because my hair is falling out. Because I. Because, hey. Because part of the process is that you're gonna get very sick from this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's part of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, good luck.

[A]

What.

[B]

What is it? What's your thing again?

[A]

We talk to God and the angels and we dictate what the church should be doing.

[B]

Okay. Way, way less cool than what I've been doing out there.

[A]

So these hierarchical church groups were always political. And yeah, Joseph went hot and cold on clicks. Joseph went hot and cold on groups of individuals. They fought with each other. Yeah, they're clicks. He made. He made. So that's, that's, you know, the classic thing. You make the group fight with each other so they don't go after you.

[B]

Trumpy.

[A]

But Brigham saw this as evidence that Joseph was prophet testing their faith.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

The infighting intensified near the end of 1835. The Prophet's temper and lack of restraint led to criticism from followers. And this led to more angry outbursts. Quote, Smith found fault with nearly everyone who crossed his path. Smith's family, his scribes and his counselor, Sidney Rigdon. Receiving withering rebukes from the prophet. When his wife Emma left a meeting early. Smith chastiser so severely that she wept.

[B]

By the way, I just wanted to sidebar and tell you that everything out there in the Jesus pool is fine. I see the future of what we're doing. So I know there's a lot of people who are wavering right now.

[A]

Get in there. I got a. And piss.

[B]

You're not gonna. Hey. You're not gonna find this issue with what I'm doing out there.

[A]

No, I don't.

[B]

I'm your gay.

[A]

Stay in there.

[C]

Gollum.

[B]

I'm your gay.

[C]

I know.

[A]

Gollum.

[B]

My fingers.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Can I talk to you about those? Quickly.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They're not going to work much longer.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It get okay.

[A]

You're becoming one with the Jesus bond.

[B]

I feel like I am.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Bye bye.

[B]

Kiss your hand.

[A]

No, sir. Go away. Kiss your. Go away from me.

[B]

I am a lucky boy in the Jesus pool.

[A]

G. Joseph called his brother William, quote, an ugly. Called his brother William, quote, ugly as the devil. And they got into a fist fight that's over him. Making his wife cry. William whipped Joseph and he later apologized and sought forgiveness. Brigham saw it as a warning of what can happen when dissent is allowed. Okay. What wrong thing to take. Not that Joseph Is a dickhead. No.

[B]

That is the lesson. Don't let others think. Then rowdy happened.

[A]

Stand up for themselves.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In January 1836, the apostles confronted Joseph. Joseph. They couldn't support his leadership if he didn't back them.

[B]

Plus, I've been sitting on that Jesus pool for a while, and I'm very sick.

[A]

What is this guy doing here?

[B]

I'm sick as. Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if that's even something I'm supposed to be doing out there.

[A]

Yeah. He apologized and confirmed that the 12, quote, are not subject to any other than the first presidency. So he's number one. And then they're after that, right? They're the board. He's a CEO. After this, things went well. They had many blessings and prophecies and justice. Saw a vision of Brigham, quote, standing in a strange land in the far southwest, in a desert place, upon a rock, in the midst of about a dozen men of color who appear hostile.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

He was preaching to them in their own tongue. And the angel of God standing above his head was a drawn sword in his hand, protecting him. Pretty great. Pretty great.

[B]

Boom.

[A]

Brigham oversaw the finishing of the temple, which opened on March 27, and hundreds of saints came. It was overflowing. Several church elders, including Joseph, rose and testified that they had seen angels in the house. Brigham sang a song in tongues.

[B]

So we're all having a hell of a night, obviously, and I wanted to. I put tongue to crazy the other night. A little something. Oh, this one goes out to Joey Smith. He. He's the guy who dug the plates up. This song is called.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And if. If any of you feel compelled to join in, please feel free. So let's go from the top.

[A]

All right.

[B]

2, 3, 4. Love you, man.

[A]

That's so awesome.

[B]

Love you, man.

[A]

That's, like, straight from God. Thank you.

[B]

Just means a lot. Everything you're doing is validated in that.

[A]

You know what? It. It could have been much off from that.

[B]

Singing.

[A]

That's the terrible thing.

[B]

Singing in Doug says the key, holding a tongue. Note.

[A]

Joseph saw Jesus in the temple, and he said, quote, I have accepted. I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here. So, boom.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Despite the spiritual authority and recognition, Brigham and his family were still incredibly poor.

[B]

I mean, but that's the.

[A]

What's.

[B]

That's not the point of this.

[A]

I know. Well, that's why he's still in it. But still you think you get a little bit of scratch. He borrowed money from church members so that his family could eat. He had to Leave his wife and kids for months at a time to go preaching. He had faith that it would improve if he was committed to the cause. In December, Marianne gave birth to twins.

[B]

That's. That's what you need right now.

[A]

More mouths Brigham and Marianne Junior. Hey, we're nuts.

[B]

We've always wanted to be brother, sister. Yeah.

[A]

Many members were rich in land, but very cash poor. So Joseph had the idea to start a bank to help the elders. Oh, my God. And himself, of course. He's an elder. So in the fall of 1830, Joseph A Bank. In the fall of 1836, he sent elders to Philadelphia to buy equipment to print banknotes and to Ohio to create the bank's charter. Okay. The Kirtland Safety Society began selling shares to the faithful. Brigham, quote, invested $7 for 2,000 shares. But then their bank charter wasn't approved by the government, so it's technically illegal.

[B]

Okay. Is he down 7 bucks then?

[A]

No, they just keep doing it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So Brigham's cousin wrote, quote, kirtland bills are as safe as gold.

[B]

Trust me. Yeah, good. It's like NFTs.

[A]

There were many official and unofficial dodgy banks at this time. With little or no financial backing, they could just make banknotes with no intention of redeeming them. And with rising population.

[B]

What do the banknotes look like? They just look.

[A]

They look like a bill. Like you would. Yeah. With rising population and land. But you would bring them to someone and be like, this is actually not worth anything.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The rising.

[B]

That let down. Oh, here you go. No, I sold my son.

[A]

Well, the bank of Jeff is gone.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

With rising population and land prices, the Kirtland Safety Society was profitable and encouraged an economic boom. They built a bank, which Brigham ran. New houses went up as local builder and carpenter. Brigham finally started doing well financially. Okay.

[B]

Because they're building a. Yeah.

[A]

He's.

[B]

He can make building a little town.

[A]

Yeah. It's a bubble of sorts.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. Right.

[A]

In 1837, he signed a contract to build a new home. And he brought property 3,8 of an acre for $500. Things are looking up.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

When people started to doubt the bank, Brigham counseled them to have faith. Just believe in the.

[B]

Now imagine if that were a country.

[A]

But non Mormons were immediately suspicion suspicious of Mormon money. Money, if you can imagine.

[B]

More money.

[A]

Cleveland Gazette quote, as far as we can learn, there is no property bound for their redemption, no coin in hand to redeem them. And with no responsible individuals whose honor or whose honesty is pledged for their payment, they seem to rest upon a Spiritual basis.

[B]

I mean, it doesn't sound too foreign, to be quite honest.

[A]

I mean, it's that kind of money.

[B]

It's kind of like you have to have this just. Just faith that this money, this piece of paper means it.

[A]

Yeah. If the datters would just get in line, it would all be okay. It's. It's crypto. It's crypto.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A run on the bank by non Mormons led to value of the notes dropping quickly.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And Jo. Joseph desperately tries to hold off the collapse with loans and begging the faithful to buy more stock. And then in February, the Ohio legislature rejected the bank's application for a charter, and Brigham tried to help save it. They bought property and farmland further away from town, which boosted the bank's assets and ensured their creditors were further away. So they were unlikely to quickly come for their cash. And anyone who took the notes as payment quickly found them to be useless. So, I mean, they're just like. This is just scramble time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

By the time Brigham returned, there was open rebellion against Joseph. And the prophet was furious at people who had, quote, turned tr. Must be traitors. Turned traitors and opposed the currency which has given power into the hands of the enemy. So he's like, you guys turn against the bank and now the devil are.

[B]

I don't know if they're the devil.

[A]

They're the guys who suck the devil off. They're.

[B]

They're doing that. Well, hold on. On. I think they're worshippers of the devil.

[A]

You got the devil off.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The bank collapsed in November of 1837, and creditors swarmed Kirtland. Joseph faced criminal charges. The church considered ditching him and installing David Whitmer.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

So he's one of the original three witnesses of the book.

[B]

Well, you sort of.

[A]

Yeah. Brigham loyal.

[B]

I was next to the sheep.

[A]

Brigham loyally defended him even when he was convicted. Convicted of issuing bank notes without a charter. And find a thousand dollars back then. That's a shitload.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Joseph prophesied that, quote, a peace shall soon be taken from the earth. A very fierce and very terrible war is near at hand. So that's what you do when everything's going on. You're like, they've got to kill us.

[B]

Get ready.

[A]

A Mormon quote. It hardly requires a prophet's eye to see that the perilous times are at hand. So we're getting ready on December 22nd.

[B]

I'll defend the water out of the back.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Nobody's gonna be able to come into that area.

[A]

Can you just defend. You Just defend the Jesus pool. That's great. Yeah.

[B]

Thank you. I might need to get a sword or something.

[A]

You should just stay in it. This is. Pretty soon.

[B]

They've been trying to kill me back there for a while.

[A]

Pretty soon this is going to cure you.

[B]

And for a while, it's.

[A]

It turns around.

[B]

Been a deteriorating body of water, but nobody will get near it.

[A]

Don't worry.

[B]

We got this one ready to go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would maybe like to take a wife out there.

[A]

Nope. Please, no. We can't let you have a wife.

[B]

I really lonely.

[A]

You're married to the pool.

[B]

Yeah. It seems that there's been an uptick of what people are putting into it. Sometimes I doubt my mission.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

Sometimes I find a lot.

[A]

But that's God testing you.

[B]

I know, I know. He's marking crazy ways out there.

[A]

All right, hit the pool.

[B]

May I dry on land for a moment? No. Okay.

[A]

On December 22nd, anti Jehovah sentiment forced Brigham to flee. Brigham quote, the fury of the mob and the spirit that prevailed. The apostasies who had threatened to destroy me because I would proclaim that I knew by the power of the Holy Ghost that Joseph Smith was a prophet. So he's like, they're after me because I believe not like I just over a bunch of people with a scam.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, yeah, yeah. So with all the creditors demanding thousands. He flees. The bank incident is a disaster for the church. They lost Kirtland, their new temple, a third of the elders and a big chunk of the membership. But Brigham still believed in Joseph. Quote, he was called of God. God dictated him. And if he had a mind to leave him, to leave him to himself and let him commit an error, that was no business of mine. So he's like, look, God.

[B]

So he's extremely stupid.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like even for even stupid. But now he, like, he's really showing his stupid.

[A]

Plus, it was his idea to do the bank, and now he's saying that led Joseph astray. But he's the one who came up with the idea.

[B]

Well, that makes me feel like he's less stupid then. But the idea of him, like, look, this is all what God's trying. Like just some dude just being like, at this point, this is what happens in cult document. At this point. This guy normally in a cult documentary is like, what did I do back there?

[A]

It's also.

[B]

Instead he's like, we just need the comeback.

[A]

It's also what the conman do. It's what Sam Alma does. And. And Elon go. Elon and what Elon must do. It's just like they just, just keep the ball rolling somehow, you know?

[B]

Yep. They just keep telling you 20. In one year. Yeah, in one year. The robots will be able to grab things next year. This time next year. This time next year.

[A]

But Brigham did not conclude that leaders should be stricter and not allow so much dissent. And Mormons now had to leave Ohio. And that is the end of part one.

[B]

Can you imagine being so shitty? Ohio's like, get out.

[A]

Wow. Well, and then the Cleveland Browns were born.

[B]

And we're off.

[A]

Research done by Charlotte George Main source John G. Turner Brigham Young Pioneer, prophet Additional source Mr. Werner Brigham Young and Stephen S. Hardy's letter to his family 1862.

[B]

There we go.

[A]

Bada Bing.

[B]

Hey, Dollop fans. I know you love the dollop. You love listening to the dollop. Do you want to watch the dollop? You're like, gareth, what are you talking about? By the way, it's not Gary, it's Gareth. Well, we have partnered with Lakeside Animation and we are starting to animate some of our episodes. So if you want to go watch a five parter animation, which is actually like a 22 minute episode or 30 minute episode, I can't remember, remember, of the Rube. You can go to LakeSide Animation on YouTube and watch a really awesome animation of the Rube. It. It really genuinely kicks ass and we're very proud of it. And the more you share it, the more you give it to people, the more you follow Lakeside, all that stuff, the better chance we have of making a lot more of them. We're already making a second one, so go there and watch the rube.