716 - Brigham Young - Part Two

Summary

The Dollop Episode 716 – Brigham Young, Part Two

Podcast: The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds
Date: January 13, 2026
Theme:
Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds explore the tumultuous mid-history of Mormon leader Brigham Young – following the collapse of the Mormon settlement in Missouri, the rise of religious schisms, violence against followers, and, eventually, Brigham’s ascent to leadership alongside the proliferation of polygamy. As always, the episode delivers irreverent commentary, quick wit, and sharp skepticism about organized religion’s evolution.

---

Main Themes and Episode Overview

• The Dollop’s Format: Dave narrates a researched historical story to Gareth, who hasn’t heard it before.
• Subject: The fate of the early Mormon church post-Kirtland collapse, focusing on Brigham Young as right-hand to founder Joseph Smith, the dominance and crises of the Missouri and Illinois years, and the beginnings of Mormon polygamy.
• Tone: Irreverent, sardonic, playful ridicule especially regarding religious mythologies and leadership power-plays.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Collapse in Missouri, Rise of Paranoia, and Early Mormon Violence (03:05–15:00)

• After their bank failed, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young fled from Ohio to Missouri, seeking protection and gathering other Mormon followers.
• The Mormon leadership, increasingly wanting loyalty, excommunicated dissenters—even those who were original witnesses to Joseph Smith’s "plates."
• Formation of enforcer vigilante groups ("Danites," "Big Fan Brother of Gideon," "Daughters of Zion"), threatening or assaulting internal dissenters.
  • [05:23] Dave: "The most militant followers organized, quote, a secret oath-bound vigilante society dedicated to quashing first the dissent and disloyalty."
• Joseph Smith’s claims escalated: identifying sites in Missouri as sacred and prophesying that Adam would return there.
• Rising local hostility: The Mormons’ expansion, self-segregation, and acquisition of land inflamed tensions, leading to violence between Mormon groups and “old settlers.”
• “We will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled” – Sydney Rigdon’s July 4th sermon (10:48–11:13), spurring wider conflict.
• After brawls and violence at an election, Mormons began confiscating property and later burning buildings.
• The Missouri governor issued an extermination order against the Mormons.
  • [13:19] Dave: "The governor...now declared, 'the Mormons must be treated as enemies and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for public peace.'"
• Mob violence peaks with the massacre of a Mormon settlement, including killing a 10-year-old boy.
  • [14:46] Dave: “On October 30th, a mob attacked a Mormon settlement. At least 17 Mormons were killed, including a 10-year-old boy who had his head blown off.”

2. Expulsion to Illinois and the Hardening of Mormon Identity (18:15–25:00)

• Mormons forced to flee Missouri, dispossessed of property, and sold everything cheaply due to desperation.
• This exile is interpreted by followers as a test of faith and divine prophecy.
  • [19:39] Dave: “Most followers remain loyal as they saw this suffering as a test of their faith.”
• Brigham Young and Heber Kimball take over day-to-day running of the faith as Joseph Smith is jailed.
• Joseph and his brother escape jail and rejoin the movement in Quincy, Illinois.
• Disease and deprivation — malaria sweeps through the community. Joseph claims miraculous healings.
• Joseph “prophesies” a new mission: Brigham and other apostles are sent to England to recruit.

3. The Mission to England and International Growth (23:40–32:14)

• Brigham leaves for England ten days after his wife gives birth; his absence and personal sacrifice are played up, and he barely mentions his ill or dying family.
  • [22:46] Brigham (quoted): “If I had known that every one of them would have been in the grave when I returned, it would not have diverted me from my mission.”
• Difficult passage and dire conditions in England, but the Mormons preach successfully—especially amongst disaffected Methodists.
• Converts are mass-baptized; some whole congregations switch allegiance to Mormonism.
  • [28:08] Dave (quoting Brigham): “Simple testimony is enough for them. They beg and plead for the Book of Mormon.”
• Brigham’s letters home contrast his own relative comfort (shopping, sightseeing in London) with his family’s hardship.

4. Nauvoo: A New Zion, Polygamy Rises, and Splintering (32:25–54:28)

• Nauvoo, Illinois, becomes the new Mormon capital, growing rapidly and wielding political clout.
• Block-voting, land speculation, and new revelations: followers are asked to give up property for the church.
  • [35:51] Dave: “He [Brigham] orders everyone to basically give their land over to the church because he f***ed up.”
• Baptism for the dead—a new doctrine—emerges, and the practice of vicarious rituals escalates.
  • [38:05] Dave: “Several thousand Nauvoo Mormons plunged into the muddy waters of the Mississippi in vicarious baptisms for their relatives who had died outside of the church.”
• Polygamy becomes formalized: Joseph starts “sealing” himself to multiple women—a move justified by new “revelations” and expanded theological rationales. Gareth and Dave repeatedly lampoon the ever-shifting, self-serving nature of these doctrines.
  • [54:28] Dave: “Joseph first raised the subject with trusted insiders, referring to polygamy as celestial marriage, eternal marriage, and the patriarchal order of marriage. And also spiritual waiflery, spiritual wifery.”
• Brigham, initially hesitant, eventually embraces plural marriage and accumulates many wives, some already married to others. Secret marriages, rumors, and considerable manipulation are involved.
  • [61:40] Gareth: “Rumors spread that he and Heber locked her [Martha] in a room for several days to convince her. By the way, that’s not what convincing means.”
• The doctrine is selectively revealed; secrecy and factionalism grow.

5. Dissent, Martyrdom, and the Succession Crisis (74:39–83:07)

• Tensions grow as Nauvoo, now rivaling Chicago in size, stirs fear and resentment from local non-Mormons.
• Dissidents publish a scandal-sheet, the Nauvoo Expositor, exposing the “abominations and whoredoms.” Joseph has the press destroyed and is arrested (77:03).
• Joseph and Hyrum Smith are killed by vigilantes while jailed (78:23).
• Brigham Young, learning of Joseph’s death, moves to solidify his own leadership; a church conference and “miraculous” impressions of Brigham as Joseph cinch his ascendancy.
  • [80:59] Dave: “So The Saints voted...for the 12 to lead the church and implicitly Brigham Young as a leader of the 12.”
  • [81:21] Dave (quoting members): “Not only was it the voice of Joseph which was heard, but he was so full of—it seemed...it was the very person of Joseph which stood before them.”

6. Final Years in Nauvoo and Decision to Flee West (83:18–92:09)

• Emma Smith opposes Brigham and polygamy.
• Political infighting, Mormon paranoia, and the revocation of Nauvoo’s charter put the community in peril.
• Anti-Mormon violence resumes; plans for an exodus to the west are accelerated. The Council of 50 investigates locations in what’s then Mexican territory.
• Brigham Young orchestrates the flight, uses subterfuge to evade arrest, and finally orders the exodus after the temple burns down.
  • [91:18] Dave: “...the temple’s roof caught on fire...and the whole building collapsed. So that seemed like a sign to them to move.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Creation and Collapse of Power Structures

• [05:16] Gareth: “He’s surrounding himself with loyalists.”
• [13:21] Dave: “If religions are going to fight, the smaller one’s gotta go. I don’t know what to say. I don’t care about religions. I just think you guys cause so many f***ing problems.”
• [19:00] Gareth: “What about a religion where we’re always on the move?”
  (mocking the endless relocations)

On Brigham’s Mission to England

• [22:46] Brigham (quoted): “If I had known that every one of them would have been in the grave when I returned, it would not have diverted me from my mission.”
• [28:08] Dave (quoting Brigham): “Simple testimony is enough for them. They beg and plead for the Book of Mormon.”
  (mocking the readiness of English converts)

On Polygamy and Ever-Morphing Doctrine

• [54:28] Dave: “Joseph first raised the subject with trusted insiders, referring to polygamy as celestial marriage, eternal marriage, and the patriarchal order of marriage. And also spiritual waiflery, spiritual wifery.”
• [55:53] Gareth: “You swear to God this came from God?”
• [56:26] Gareth: “So I stay married to her? ...You’re also married to her?... Feels like you just came up with [the Hot Prophet Cabin].”
• [60:57] Dave (quoting Brigham): "I was filled with the Holy Ghost and said he was ready to go ahead."
• [83:02] Dave (mocking religious rationale): “At first, I was like...I don't think God wants us to be married to more than one person but then I f***ed a young lady. And I was like, wow, God wants this.”

On Zions, Secrecy, and Grifts

• [35:51] Dave: He orders everyone to basically give their land over to the church because he f***ed up, right?
• [38:12] Dave: “...and sometimes for others. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin. I will be dunking for George Washington today.”

On Succession

• [80:59] Dave: “The Saints voted ... for the 12 to lead the church and implicitly Brigham Young as a leader of the 12.”

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Missouri Exile, Violence, and Vigilantes: 03:05–15:00
• Expulsion and Hardening Identity: 18:15–25:00
• Mission to England and International Growth: 23:40–32:14
• Nauvoo, Polygamy, and Dissent: 32:25–54:28
• Succession Crisis and Martyrdom: 74:39–83:07
• Flight to the West, End of Nauvoo: 83:18–92:09

---

Wrap-up and Last Impressions

• Both hosts marvel (and mock) that Mormonism became a modern faith given its “riffed” and improvised origins.
  • [92:20] Gareth: “...it is shocking that Mormonism has lasted this long. I mean, it is extreme.”
• The episode closes with both reiterating that it feels like “riffing” and improvisation, not prophetic insight, drove the evolution of doctrine and leadership succession.

---

Final Thoughts

For those who haven’t listened:
This episode covers the chaotic years that shaped Mormon doctrine and global reach, focusing on how a persecuted, itinerant sect—via charismatic, improvisational leadership and bold, evolving theologies—survived intense external hostility and internal schisms. Irreverent commentary highlights the self-serving, fabricated, and absurd elements of early Mormon history.

Memorable Palate:

• "House of plates" as a running gag for the ever-evolving, convenient revelations of Joseph Smith.
• A relentless, biting look at how religious “revelation” is often just a cover for expedient, sometimes predatory, human behavior.

Transcript

[Dave Anthony]

The Dollop will be on tour in March 2026. We are going to be in Buffalo on March 22. Then on the 23rd, we'll be in Syracuse. Then on March 24, we'll be in Boston at the Wilbur. Then on the 25th, we'll be in Bridgeport. And 26, the Gramercy Theater in New York. And then on the 27th, will be in Albany. And then on the 28th, we'll be in Pittsburgh. And then on the 29th, we'll be in Philadelphia. And then on the 30th, we'll be in Washington, D.C. at the Lincoln. The. Why would you name a theater after Lincoln? Anyway, that's our March 2026 tour. Go to dolloppodcast.com tour for tickets. You're listening to the Dollop. This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to one of the elders, Gareth Reynolds.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Elder Reynolds, who has no idea what ye. Topic will be about.

[Dave Anthony]

You weren't. Were you wearing the hat?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I just put it on.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. So I. There's certain things I do pick up on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Like when we're here for two hours together, and then you put on a hat, and then I, like, I realize that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, it's like, highlights.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. I have, like, a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Your perception.

[Dave Anthony]

Remarkable memory. I can figure out what's around me. Like, that guy didn't have on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The way that he keeps bragging about taking a cognitive test and acing. It is the funniest thing ever.

[Dave Anthony]

It's amazing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's so funny. Keep being like. And they're just like. They're presenting you with a dog and a camel and a sunshine and a tree. And you've got to remember, though, it's like, dude, they gave you a kindergartener's test, and you're like, and I won the exam. That crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

He. He. I watched him giving a speech in, like, in some. Front of some crowd. They're testing it out. And he. It made no sense. It was like two minutes of making no sense whatsoever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There are. There are times where you're just like, I just would imagine even, you know, I mean, again, even if, like, Even if you're a fan, I would imagine you're there and there's 20 minutes. At times you're like, what the is happening right now? You know, I mean, it's like what Bob Dylan's like, this next one is new.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, let's go piss. Like, when Trump's. Like, when Trump's like, sharks. The problem with sharks let's go piss.

[Dave Anthony]

December 1837 party. Brigham Young and Joseph Smith fled to Ohio after their fake bank collapsed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Fled to Ohio or from Ohio?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, wait, did I get that wrong of fled Ohio? Sorry. Fled Ohio to Missouri after their bank collapsed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why do they only go from Ohio to Missouri?

[Dave Anthony]

Just get across the border. I mean, that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. They're just. That's.

[Dave Anthony]

That's where there's another group of Mormons.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Basically, the ones who are. But they're what? They're mid Zion collapse.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know why there's some in Ohio and some Missouri. I. I mean, they're starting to spread out a little bit like, you know, mosquitoes, but that's the where. The other big group is Brigham, Joseph, and Sidney Rigdon headed to a Mormon settlement called Far west in Caldwell County, Missouri.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

They were promised peace by the governor if they stayed in the county. So the governor's like, all right, just don't go anywhere. Just do me a favor.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're grounded.

[Dave Anthony]

Do me a solid. You guys.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're in here because you want one central location of Mormonism for our strength.

[Dave Anthony]

And can you. Yeah. Can you keep the wacky just within that area? That'd be great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because at this point, we're not ready to spread our message that will change the world.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's great organization. The key to getting the message out there. So we'll all hang here for a little bit.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, that's right. Just hang there is all I'm saying. Just keep it in there. Right. Put a. Let's put a. Let's put a top on it. Right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. And when we feel the urge to go to other counties to spread our. We will go.

[Dave Anthony]

We. Nope. Here we go. They were. So they're promised peace. Marianne joined with their five children that spring. And during the winter and spring of 1838, the church excommunicated a ton of leaders, including Whitmer, who was one of the witnesses.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, geez.

[Dave Anthony]

The three mains. And Cowdery, who had been around for a long time. Oh, no. They're both witnesses. Cowdery's another witness.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's interesting to me that they're getting rid of the two people who were.

[Dave Anthony]

There for the big old the plate unveiling. That is very interesting. Wanting leaders loyal to Joseph, the church appointed Brigham and other loyal apostles as the president's pro tem. So they're cons.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're.

[Dave Anthony]

They're strengthening their side of the thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's surrounding himself with loyalists.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I Mean, that's what you do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Work. It's effective.

[Dave Anthony]

The most militant followers organized, quote, a secret oathbound vigilante society dedicated to quashing first the descent and disloyalty. Known famously as the big fan brother of Gideon. Daughters of Zion and the Danites.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Those are the enforcers.

[Dave Anthony]

Those are the names, the different names.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And their job is to b. Anyone is like, this seems kind of. They're like, shut the up there.

[Dave Anthony]

Probably beat the. How about I my knee in your face, huh? Who's the leader? Who's the leader?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Joseph Smith.

[Dave Anthony]

Attaboy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This all makes a lot of sense.

[Dave Anthony]

That's right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He just found some plates in his yard.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And stones that tell him what they said.

[Dave Anthony]

That's correct.

[Gareth Reynolds]

God didn't just put the direct message on the plates because he needed him to do some work under a sheet. And everyone who was there that night to witness the sheet transcription is gone? Pretty much. And that's okay with me. Yes, that's good idea. That's a good idea, because there was a Maroney came around and he was. He. By the way, he should be back soon.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But I'm not questioning.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't wait to meet him or see him. I don't want to meet him. But I know that this is all real and it happened. Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

You're one of those guys who gets. When you get nervous, you talk more.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no, no, no. Nope. No, I live in my. No, no, no. I.

[Dave Anthony]

And Brigham is the best.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's great. He did so much good stuff.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's got a huge, huge chest. He's got a barrel chest.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's a man.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He could toss a tree.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I think it's good you want that in this sort of stuff, because they're all talking to God for sure. They're friends of God. They're doing stuff with God, and that's fine. And everything here is making a lot of sense. It took a while to get it together, and I think that God just, you know, wasn't happy with the other out there. So then he just buried those plates out back. I mean, who hasn't gone digging and found a dinette set in their yard with purpose?

[Dave Anthony]

Hey.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, you're right. I was. That was a. That was a little old much.

[Dave Anthony]

She's speaking tongues for me really quick. It's pretty bad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Thank you.

[Dave Anthony]

So they. They're threatening violence against dissenters, quote, to cleanse the church of very great evils which hath hitherto existed among us.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I. I was still Questioning my post.

[Dave Anthony]

There's no way that guy got out of the pool.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I was still questioning my post.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, absolutely. Now you're still in Ohio. You're fine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I.

[Dave Anthony]

You're good.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm dying. No. Okay, well, that's what God wants then.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My body is see through.

[Dave Anthony]

I know. That's fine. One of us, it said in the book, one of us had to become a Gollum. It said that some Mormon families settled outside Caldwell county. And as had happened previously, the local non Mormons became agitated because they're not supposed to do that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, well, that was the whole thing.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph made it worse in May when he explored Davies county and recognized an old Nephitish altar. So the Neph. Fatish, remember the two. So the. The guy was here in 6000 A.D. and then he spawned two different groups. One with the Nephites and the other were the Lamanites.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, the Lemonites.

[Dave Anthony]

So the Nephite. So he has seen a Nephetish altar. Now remember the Nephites. I. Are all.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We don't like death.

[Dave Anthony]

They're all exterminated. They. They were wiped out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They were non whites, right?

[Dave Anthony]

I think they were whites. But it doesn't matter because they're gone. Let it go. And then he identified Spring Hill as, quote, the place where Adam shall come to visit his people. So they got so. So he's like, oh, look, this is the spot where Adam will come and say, hey, what's up?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's Adam's deal?

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know. Does it matter?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

Or the ancient days shall sit as spoken of by Daniel. The prophet Smith renamed the area Adam on the almond. Why make it so complicated? It's so crazy. Why the Mormons believed it to be where Adam lived after his expulsion from Eden. Because, see? Did anybody ever think of that? Where'd he go? Where'd he go? Came here. Came to a place in Missouri.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. This is a hole.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph encouraged followers to settle and to settle in a town at the union of the grand and Missouri rivers. The plan was to have communities that gave their land to the church and created jobs for Mormons. Local non Mormons feared the Mormons would overwhelm the area. And on July 4th, they laid the so right too. Yeah. Yeah. Anytime there's a, like a big, like, religious group coming in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, remember with what? What?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, the Oregon. Same thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It was just like they were like.

[Dave Anthony]

The hell's going on at that farm?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who are building? God, man. They're like, oh, my God, no.

[Dave Anthony]

So on July 4, they laid the cornerstones of their new temple in far west Sydney. Rigdon Re preached that they would no longer put up with persecution. Quote, that mob that comes on us to disturb us. It shall be between us and them a war of extermination. For we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Was that from the Turning Points meeting?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I think so. So they're getting a little.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a great well, but they're sick of being they. Look, this is what happens if you believed. You have every right to do this because you are being persecuted.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they were. So they were attacked and then that. That whittles them down because a lot of people are like, I don't want to be able to get attacked. Bail. And then they've gotten more firm believers. Right. They've cut out all. So now they have the core.

[Gareth Reynolds]

If you really believe in this being real, then it is like, you idiots.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're fucking this up.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The stupid don't ever take a minute to go, we're morons.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. We being. Are we the dummies?

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're stupid.

[Dave Anthony]

During an election on October, six brawls broke out between Mormons and the old settlers, as the Mormons call them. The anti Mormons are called old settlers. So mobs, anti Mormon mobs formed and the state militia was sent to preserve peace. But they were hostile toward the Mormons, if you can believe it. Quote. As mobs forced outlying Mormon settlers from their homes. Mormon Alicia's attack suspected mobbers and confiscated their property. Okay. Well, yeah, right. Yeah. The Mormons now went on the attack and burned about 50 buildings.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. What the.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Sometimes you got to get down to it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's wild.

[Dave Anthony]

You just gotta.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Do you really think he found plates?

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know, but I'm burning this farm.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, we literally burned a town down.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I mean, I. I don't really want to get into the hole. Is it real thing. I'm just like, yeah, I'm in it. I'm in it for the action, you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Know, it's just nice to have a family.

[Dave Anthony]

They were confident they had, quote, driven most of the enemy out of this county. Now, up until now, the governor had avoided taking sides, but he now declared, quote, the Mormons must be treated as enemies and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for public peace.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Again, what do you land on dumb down.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean. Yeah. I mean, look, at the end of the day, if. If religions are going to fight, the smaller one's gotta Go. I don't know what to say. I don't. I don't care about religions. I just think you guys cause so many fucking problems.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I believe in freedom of religion, but stay out of it. Yeah, stay. Stay out of the. Stay out of the reality of governing.

[Dave Anthony]

Quakers. Best. Best religion.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You love the Quakers.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, because they don't. They're like, let's not fight. Let's just. I mean, they have evolved, but like, let's just leave each other alone and you do your thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That great George Carlin bit where he takes the Ten Commandments down to three and he adds one and the last one is keep thine religion to thyself.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. That's all we want with your religion. Just keep it to your self. God.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, all of a sudden, look who comes crawling back.

[Dave Anthony]

It's like that woman who was calling all the churches in Texas, asking, saying that her baby, with a recording of a baby crying, saying that the. That she had no money for. For.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then the Muslims, the Muslims are the only ones who are like, yay.

[Dave Anthony]

And then someone did it in the uk. Exact same thing. All the Christian churches said no, and the Muslim churches immediately said yes. Well, cool.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All I know is Mark Wahlberg would have stopped 911.

[Dave Anthony]

Thank you. On October 30th, a mob attacked a Mormon settlement. At least 17 Mormons were killed, including a 10 year old boy who had his head blown off.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He didn't survive.

[Dave Anthony]

It doesn't say. A killer later said, quote, nits will make license. And if he had lived, he would have become a Mormon. Oh, that sounds familiar.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A killer.

[Dave Anthony]

Nits will make lice. One of the, one of the guys who went on the Mormon who killed all the Mormons. Nits will make lice. And if he had lived, he would have become a Mormon.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, so he's basically saying like, sorry, that was a future adult Mormon.

[Dave Anthony]

Sound familiar?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

In this, in this day and age.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nip it in the bud, bro.

[Dave Anthony]

A mob headed to Far West.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Future crimes.

[Dave Anthony]

A mob headed to Far west marched. And more and more locals joined the militia.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph realized they were doomed and he sent a peace emissary. The militia leader said they had to give up Joseph and four of his top men who, who led the violence. Joseph thought they were being asked to come and negotiate directly, Right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

So wait, wait. The. The. They were like, we're gonna kill four of you. And Joseph was like, I'll come for your meeting.

[Dave Anthony]

He's like, you turn over these four. And he's like, oh, they would like To.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, as long as we're having a meeting, why don't we bring some couscous to this little potluck?

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, I think it's not a good sign that I already don't know what words mean, but here I am.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So we'd like to invite you to an area where we'll kill you. I would love to have supper.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, let's talk it out there. Agree.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's just have a discussion over breads and cheeses and fruits. You there, pass the figs. Why is my man's throat cut?

[Dave Anthony]

So he goes and he's immediately arrested.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Where's this. Where's the party sub?

[Dave Anthony]

So we don't know if he misunderstood it or if they, like, misled him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, he probably should have just sat under a sheet and translated what he thought they were saying for a couple days.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham quote, we expected that they would have returned to the city that evening or the next morning. But they did not return at all. So Mormons now surrendered, furious at the negotiators for betraying Joseph. They were disarmed. And then, according to Brigham, the Missouri soldiers, quote, commenced their ravages by plundering the citizens of their bedding, clothing, money, wearing apparel and everything of value they could lay their hands upon. And also attempted to violate the chastity of the women in sight of their husbands and friends. So, yeah, rape and pillage. Yeah, the standard. They were told to leave the county before the planting of next year's crops.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, that is a respectful.

[Dave Anthony]

That's it. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You get out of here before we put seeds in the soil.

[Dave Anthony]

The Missouri General quote, I would advise you to scatter abroad and become as other citizens.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You get religion, stupid. Leave.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, knock this shit off the plates. Oh, my God. What are you fucking doing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What? He found plates in his yard.

[Dave Anthony]

Fucking stupid.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, it isn't.

[Dave Anthony]

He. It's really dumb. Were 3 When is another religion. Had a guy find a bunch of plates with written on him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Excuse me. Moses came down with tablets.

[Dave Anthony]

No. Okay, somebody else. The harsh treatment caused sympathy for the Mormons to go around the U.S. yes. And now people are like, what do you. You took away all their guns and then killed them and burned their property down. So with Joseph in jail, Brigham and Heber organized moving the community. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like they know when they're down.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, we gotta get out of here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Tell you what, it seems like they don't want us here.

[Dave Anthony]

What about a religion where we're always on the move?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love that. I love that. For us.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph wrote from jail that Brigham and Heber could run the church. And the oldest of the 12 apostles should be a leader, which happened to be Brigham. He's 13 days older than Heber. So Brigham is the leader of. While he's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because of age. Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. The governor of Illinois offered them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, are we moving?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. Always. Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's the new place?

[Dave Anthony]

Not you, actually. I need you to watch the pool.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no. Not the pool anymore.

[Dave Anthony]

Pretty soon you're gonna meet Jesus. It's fine. It's fine. The governor of Illinois offered them refuge.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Whoa.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know why. Maybe.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, maybe.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, people do feel bad for them for what's happened. Okay, so there is sympathy for them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So they're displaced.

[Dave Anthony]

Over the 1839 winter, they trudged out of Missouri. Their land, property, and other goods were sold for very little because everyone knows they're desperate and could be ripped off.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

Most followers remain loyal as they saw this suffering as a test of their faith.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It does. Definitely. Like you said, it drums up sympathy and probably makes you be like, we need grit.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. It was evidence of Joseph's premonitions. Proof that these were the end times. Right. The worse it gets. They're like, see?

[Gareth Reynolds]

See?

[Dave Anthony]

I told you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

God's testing us.

[Dave Anthony]

Burgers. Family moved 11 times in three months.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Holy.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, my God. What are you, a salesman?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Army brats.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, right. They went to Quincy in Illinois, where many saints had gone, including Sydney Rigdon, who was arrested with Joseph but escaped.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

The church is in chaos. They were waiting for Joseph to pronounce where the true Zion was. They're like, well, it wasn't the last place because they got burned out of it. Where is it now? Tell us. He hinted at some plans, but never said definitely where because he's like, we.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can'T get killed at Zion.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph and his brother Hiram. That's a terrible name. Hiram's just not a good name in this economy. What's in it? What do you call. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hiram also escape from jail. So Joseph and his brother escape from jail, and they. They made up with Brigham and Quincy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey. Okay. Over that, summer sickness hits. Well, yeah, because they've been. They've been. They're in condition, basically.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Were they vaxxed?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they're vaxxed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's what I mean.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. It kills you. And many, including Brigham, got a fever, possibly malaria. Joseph was also taken out. Heber Kimball quote, brother Joseph went forward and took them by the hand and commanded the fever to depart from them. And they leaped from their beds and Were made whole. So that's nice.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is nice.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Brigham says Joseph came to his sick bed, quote, and commanded me in the name of Jesus Christ to arise and be made whole. But a lot died, though.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure. Well, yeah, but we're not talking about them. No, but. Well, that's part of the plan.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't ask any more questions.

[Dave Anthony]

That's right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's part of the plan.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph had prophesied that Brigham and others would travel to England to preach. Get out of here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Does that happen?

[Dave Anthony]

As the planned overseas departures got closer, tensions grew. Joseph promised that families of the missionaries would be looked after. So they're like, we don't want to go. I got a wife and kids here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's gonna be fine.

[Dave Anthony]

I got it. I got it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is good.

[Dave Anthony]

But they have no money. They have no. Like, they've lost everything.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So they got no money, no resources to support a bunch of women and children. And Marianne is pregnant with their fourth kid, Jesus Christ. Brigham's faith never wavers. Quote, if I had known that every one of them would have been in the grave when I returned, it would not have diverted me from my mission.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, you are sick.

[Dave Anthony]

It is worth it for all my kids to die if I can go to England, see a show, check out a football game, and maybe talk to people about, you know, this stuff that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is so crazy to. To be like, it's fine.

[Dave Anthony]

It's good. It's worth it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's fine.

[Dave Anthony]

Kids, gather around.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You are extras in the movie of me.

[Dave Anthony]

Not even me. This other guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I'm kind of just like a co star's movie.

[Dave Anthony]

Daddy's in love with another man.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

No. In mid September 1839, Brigham and Heber left for England 10 days after Marianne gave birth to a daughter. She's. She's 10. Wait, 10 days. Brigham.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I gotta get going. See you later, hon.

[Dave Anthony]

And then Brigham wrote to Marianne and said they had debts and he was sorry. Death, by the way.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way.

[Dave Anthony]

We're.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, we shouldn't have had that one that you just did.

[Dave Anthony]

Popped while away. He had nightmares about terrible things happening to his family.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They are happening.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Yeah. His father John died after a long illness. Br. Brigham's letters hardly ever mention his father, so we can assume they were not close. Joseph Smith's alcoholic father also died around the same time.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There it is.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But Brigham's dad, or Joseph's dad was the one who's always.

[Dave Anthony]

Now, do you in history, have you killed all alcoholic fathers or just mine?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are you talking about your dad is alive? Dude, your dad is in Michigan. I'm setting up a zoom.

[Dave Anthony]

It's sad because it makes you seem like more of a killer when you do that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm telling you, you're gonna see. He's dyed his hair. By the by, for sure, he looks good. His mustache is. Is still white as. But his hair is black. Jet black.

[Dave Anthony]

And they wrote a white mustache.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes, he did.

[Dave Anthony]

They first traveled to Ohio, caught a steamboat from Ohio, arriving in New York City in February. And that took five months. So. So just getting to New York took five months. What, in March?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are we in England? This is beautiful. Look at that, huh? Wowee.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm going to England for nine years.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So it's gonna take us half a year to get to New York, which is shocking, to be honest with you.

[Dave Anthony]

We're really bad at this. In March 1840, they bought passage to Liverpool. Seasick the whole time. Brigham arrived, so emaciated that friends didn't recognize him. And things are bad in England. A depression meant people were starving and dying of disease. Perfect for religious weirdos to promise eternal life.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right. You know, it is kind of right. It's a warm crowd.

[Dave Anthony]

This is, you know, it would be better.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm dying.

[Dave Anthony]

Missouri. Oh, no. Illinois.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm dying.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, well, what if you weren't?

[Gareth Reynolds]

That'd be cool.

[Dave Anthony]

What if you died and it was better than this?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, well, I'd like to live.

[Dave Anthony]

What about seeing gold plates or hearing about them?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, your pitch is bad.

[Dave Anthony]

What about hearing about gold plates?

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is what you do. This is what you do.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey, our guy. Hold on, I got this. Our guy found a bunch of plates made of gold and there was stuff written on them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What was in on it?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's like 567 pages.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can I see one of the plates?

[Dave Anthony]

No, the plates. No one can see. So we reburied the plates of gold.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're buried again?

[Dave Anthony]

I think so.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That seems really weird too.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's all where?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, in one of three states.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Shouldn't you have know some of this stuff?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, well.

[Dave Anthony]

But it's also.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think I'm going to be Protestant. It's also free to big Protestant Church of England. Seems smart.

[Dave Anthony]

We can play with it a little bit.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't want to do that.

[Dave Anthony]

You know, we can fudge with stuff.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, you're blowing this.

[Dave Anthony]

I think I got it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, where are the plates? I don't. We don't know what happened to them. We ate off of them. That Night at a pizza party, Brigham.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote, I forgot how many beggars I saw, but enough to take all the pennies and coppers I can get. When I look at the difference between poor people here and in America, I rejoice that you and the children are there. Oh. So he's like, hey, honey, I know you think it sucks there. It's worse here. I swear to God.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You gotta love, like. You gotta love our system, where you're like, you'd rather be broke here.

[Dave Anthony]

The Mormons, as outsiders, were able to criticize the establishment more openly than other preachers there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

They baptized new converts and arranged travel for them to the U. S. Some fringe Methodists in Herefordshire.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Known as the Herefordshire.

[Dave Anthony]

Known as the Herefordshire. Tell me if a pie and a point.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Do you want to come in for pie? I love that we put pies in pie.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, I like that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hello. No, no, no.

[Dave Anthony]

Known as the United Brethren. Converted en masse. So they got a whole Methodist group to convert. All pretty good.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good conversion.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham preached, baptized, and laid hands on believers. He was heartened by the response, quote, the people are very different in what Americans are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're very stupid.

[Dave Anthony]

They do not seem to understand argument.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're really dumb.

[Dave Anthony]

Simple testimony is enough for them. They beg and plead for the Book of Mormon. So they really.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They were just like. There was no pushback.

[Dave Anthony]

I think England is such a nightmare at that point, though. They're just like, just get us out of here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What if I told you a guy. All right.

[Dave Anthony]

Is there any other answer to this?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that sounds all right to us. We're in.

[Dave Anthony]

I've been eating mud.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. All right. Quiet, darling.

[Dave Anthony]

Hazmat.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's not great.

[Dave Anthony]

Some people pelt them with. Some people pelt them with the rotten eggs. But the success rate was much higher than in the US by the way. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, you're not a suffering. If you have. If you have, like, egg weapons.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're not.

[Dave Anthony]

No. You're not doing too bad, but.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And also, you throw those my way. I'm figuring some stuff out.

[Dave Anthony]

Aren't you weeping because eggs are broken?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, but they're. But they're not done. A rotten egg is not a. You could eat eggs.

[Dave Anthony]

A rotten egg.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You can eat an egg that comes out of its shell. I mean, you can work with that a little bit. You can get some of it up. That's what's great about the shell. The shell acts as.

[Dave Anthony]

You're literally no different than Joseph Smith.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't hate what I'm Hearing, by the way, a lot of people online coming after me with egg stuff. I don't know. What did I say?

[Dave Anthony]

How much? How you told people how many eggs you eat. Yeah, that's literally all that happened.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They seem pretty upset.

[Dave Anthony]

So now you're upset and people are coming out. It's like you eated an insane amount of eggs.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just say, eat it. Whose side are you gonna be on? Mine or the guy who said, eat it.

[Dave Anthony]

Eat it, Egg guy. They raised enough money to print the Book of Mormon in England. Brigham complained about the weather and smog. Same place Buddy sang in Manchester. Quote, the atmosphere is so darkened with the cold that the air is so thick with it, the eye cannot penetrate but a little ways.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's true.

[Dave Anthony]

He continued to heal people with his hands as he toured. You're fine, you're good, you're fine, you're good.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Here we are.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham enjoyed shopping and buying cheaper items than, like, at home. Like, clogs for the kids and a black silk vest.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're, like, dying at home.

[Dave Anthony]

I know. And he's like, how do I look?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, look at these clogs. These kids are gonna love this.

[Dave Anthony]

This vest is tight.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is nice.

[Dave Anthony]

He had a custom watch made in London. He hit all the tourist spots. Buckingham Palace, Westminster Abbey, the Tower of London.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So funny to imagine back then you're even doing tourist.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, he's having a good time.

[Gareth Reynolds]

When did. But they don't have Big Ben yet.

[Dave Anthony]

No, I don't think maybe.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That must have. That must have been crazy when that happened.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, people lost their minds.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. They were like, well, we'll never not know what time it is.

[Dave Anthony]

Holy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a huge clock.

[Dave Anthony]

This is so you'll know when to be at work.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hell, that's big, isn't it? Look at the size of that clock. Those hands alone.

[Dave Anthony]

Holy, we're the best.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a great time to be alive. I think we're finally coming into our own.

[Dave Anthony]

Do you know what time it is?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'll do now.

[Dave Anthony]

By the end, they had converted 6,000 Brits to Mormonism. 800 came to the US within a year.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The most stupid.

[Dave Anthony]

They and Joseph called them. Called them home. So they sailed in 1841. So they're back. They did a great job.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, they did.

[Dave Anthony]

While he lived it up in the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Uk and he's just got, like a closet of vests. Darling, are you a magician now? I really found myself vest wise out there. We had to eat one of the children because we were starving.

[Dave Anthony]

All right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look at all these vests. Pretty cool, huh?

[Dave Anthony]

Huh?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Huh? I'm doing no shirt with some of these. Well, what do you think of that?

[Dave Anthony]

It's not great, man. Are you the boss? Yeah, well, I lived it up in the uk. Marianne and the kids were sick, poor and alone.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hide the vests. I think it'll be ill timed.

[Dave Anthony]

When he returned, they were living in Illinois. Quote, I found my family living in a small, unfurnished log cabin situated on a low wet lot so swampy that when the first attempt was made to plow it, the oxen mired.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The oxen, Meyer, I think they couldn't move. Oh, the ox are like, he drained.

[Dave Anthony]

The land and finished building the cabin. Joseph lived in a room.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Coming back to that, though. You know what I mean? You're like, honey, thank God we live in a sewer cabin. How was England? It's kind of a sewer cabin in a way.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, I need a vest closet. Joseph lived in a riverside house in a town that he renamed Navu. And this is it. They have found Zion.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Navu. Where is this, in Illinois?

[Dave Anthony]

Yep.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They found Zion in Illinois.

[Dave Anthony]

I didn't look up where it was.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Navu.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. N A U V O O. Navu.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sounds like a one of the Avatar worlds. I am Navu. We're going to Navoo.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, where is it in Illinois? In. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Illinois can't still exist.

[Dave Anthony]

It's. It does. It's still there. It's way. It's on the board. It looks like it's on the border.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Of not say, Wisconsin.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know what state that is. It doesn't say. Kansas maybe. Yeah. So it's way over on the west side of Illinois, very near the border.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. That's Zion.

[Dave Anthony]

That's the new Zion camping in the well.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And by the way, you really, like, you, like you alluded to, you kind of get one crack at being like, we got Zion.

[Dave Anthony]

But this is their third.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. You get three cracks. This is like the last one.

[Dave Anthony]

Definitely their second one per play. Definitely. The first one was definitely Kirtland because they build a temple there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. But now it's like people are dubious. So now you got to get Zion, right?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. You got to nail it. Yeah. By 1841, Nauvoo was booming with thousands of residents and farms. On the outskirts, they had a militia which was led by Joseph with the blessing of the Illinois governor. So he's all for it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Illinois governor is interesting.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, because they. It probably they're going to bring in tax revenue. Right. They're going to create A new.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, why, of course.

[Dave Anthony]

I believe you guys are great also. They could be a voting block for him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

The church organized block voting and elections, sometimes for the Whigs, but usually for Democrats. They. Whoever offered him the best deal, basically.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham and the 12 learned Joseph was in debt again.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Where is Joseph now? He's escaped.

[Dave Anthony]

No, he's in Nauvoo. Yeah, he escaped.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. So he's in Nauvoo cooking.

[Dave Anthony]

He borrowed. He borrowed to buy land in Nauvoo because some land they thought they owned had been bought with bad deeds, so they couldn't really sell it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So good with money, is it?

[Dave Anthony]

No, it's terrible. Brigham, quote, quickly issued an epistle encouraging the saints in the east to deed their properties to the church's creditor in exchange for navu lots. So it's so funny that he.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, is the whole thing that you're just like. Well, whatever.

[Dave Anthony]

He or he orders everyone to basically give their land over to the church because he up, right? He up. They suggested saints should come and quote, bring of your substance, your silver and gold and apparel, cast it into the treasury of the Lord. This is just crazy. This is. This is swagger. This is. All those guys. It's the same.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, it's. It really is.

[Dave Anthony]

It's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There's. There's really two groups when it comes to this high level grifting. There's the liars and the people who believe all the. And they just really are like, by the way, we need to get a little more money just so we can get our Cadillac to heaven.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Anyone who helped build the new temple in Nauvoo would receive many blessings. So that's a good trade off. Bren was promoted to the city council into a new spiritual role as someone who could baptize the dead. Bam.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, dog.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, no, wait.

[Dave Anthony]

They baptize everyone who dies? Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's weird.

[Dave Anthony]

Some converts.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Weird.

[Dave Anthony]

It's cool, bro.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And you bring them up. It's the same.

[Dave Anthony]

No, you don't bring them up. Some converts were. No, you just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just pour it on them.

[Dave Anthony]

No, you just like. I'm sure they baptized my dad and my grandparents. When you die, they. They baptize you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who does?

[Dave Anthony]

The Mormons. Okay. Some converts were worried about the souls of their non converted, now dead loved ones. So Joseph had a vision that people could be blessed post alive.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I like that, actually.

[Dave Anthony]

You do?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Cover your bases. I'll take it. When I'm gone, Go dunk me.

[Dave Anthony]

Let me just say how dumb it is, though. It's really dumb.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't mind it.

[Dave Anthony]

This is a crazy loophole.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, yeah, it is.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham was one of the few anointed who could perform this ritual.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, who else was anointed?

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know. Quote, several thousand Nauvoo Mormons plunged into the muddy waters of the Mississippi in vicarious baptisms for their relatives who had died outside of the church.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A vicarious baptism is hysterical.

[Dave Anthony]

It's awesome. And sometimes for others. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I will be dunking for George Washington today.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm ducking for president Benjamin Franklin.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I'll be dunking for my friend Jeff, who died in a fire. Vicarious baptisms. They believe they're performing rituals or vicarious baptisms.

[Dave Anthony]

Pull up in a mobile truck.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How you doing?

[Dave Anthony]

You guys looking for a vicarious baptism today? Got anybody out?

[Gareth Reynolds]

How y' all doing today?

[Dave Anthony]

You got an uncle, you got an aunt. Only 25 bucks.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Anyone who's dead that you'd like to baptize, jump in our van tub.

[Dave Anthony]

Just 25 cat. We take cash, we take smart cards.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We do zolf.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, we do zolf. They believe they're performing rituals first performed by Adam and Eve. Sure makes sense.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm actually going to do a baptism for Eve today.

[Dave Anthony]

When polygamy started to creep in there. It is hard to pin down here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just. I know when one guy was like, we should be able to.

[Dave Anthony]

About, my wife's getting old.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But that is always what it is.

[Dave Anthony]

What it is. It's 100 what it is. Joseph had an affair with a servant, Fanny Alger, in Kirtland. Do not laugh. In England, her name is Fanny Alger. Yeah, Grow up. Which later supporters described as his first plural marriage. So he had an affair, and they're like, look at this guy. He's branching out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, they. No, they probably. They catch him in an affair, and he's like, no. And taking a second. We're all supposed to.

[Dave Anthony]

We're all doing this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're all supposed to have two ish wives. There's the one year that you're first. And then there was the one you really look forward to now.

[Dave Anthony]

The relationship angered his wife, Emma, because.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She'S his wife, you idiot. God told me to.

[Dave Anthony]

God was like, soak it all around, good Lord, get soaking, is what he said.

[Gareth Reynolds]

God said that you're just, I don't know, kind of gross now.

[Dave Anthony]

What are you, like, 40? It's weird, honestly.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You just. It's not great.

[Dave Anthony]

God said, should women get older? I don't know.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Fanny's like 28.

[Dave Anthony]

Come on. She's hot.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She loves to play volleyball.

[Dave Anthony]

She's gonna leave. Fatty left the relationship and the church in 1863. So she's like, okay, creep.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I have to go back to the. Hey.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey, girl. Hey.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Fanny's gone.

[Dave Anthony]

Emma. What's up? I'm back here now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I realized that I loved you the most. Fanny's gone.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Fanny is gone.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I might go look for a new young one. Because God was like, it's important.

[Dave Anthony]

In the spring of 1841, around the time Brigham returned from England, Joseph was sealed to Louisa Beeman. So that's what they call. That's what they call getting married. Seal daughter of an old family friend. So that's nice. He married the daughter of an old family.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So that's so their relationship.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because he knew her when she was a baby.

[Dave Anthony]

And.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And that's fine.

[Dave Anthony]

And the other. His buddy must be like, oh, this is cool.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's normal.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I. I just. I think everyone would probably be happier if you knew your wife or now girlfriend when they were a baby. Yes. And you were an adult.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is a normal thing.

[Dave Anthony]

Very normal.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Normal, huh?

[Dave Anthony]

She wore a man's coat and hat to avoid attracting attention during the ceremony.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep. Dressed like the Mad Hatter. That's what I want from a bride. That's how you know this situation's good.

[Dave Anthony]

What's Joseph doing over there?

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's marrying a Tim Burton character.

[Dave Anthony]

Gareth Reynolds. The dollop is brought to you by Mint Mobile.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're doing last names.

[Dave Anthony]

Mr. Reynolds. What? The holidays. The holidays are past us. They're in the. They're in the rear view mirror. And a lot of people probably feeling like they don't have a lot of spending power. They. They blew through a bunch of cash with the gifts and the drinks and traveling. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Podcast partner. A boat. And he didn't get them anyway.

[Dave Anthony]

Got him a boat. Luckily, Mint Mobile is here to help you cut back on all that overspending on. You can do it on wireless to save money. With wireless. This January, 50% off unlimited premium wireless.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good Lord.

[Dave Anthony]

Fitty.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good lord.

[Dave Anthony]

We both use Mint Mobile. It works. It's good. It's a good phone service. You get the data. You get the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My only issue does cost so much less.

[Dave Anthony]

It does. It's very upsetting.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't care for that. I like to get the money out over.

[Dave Anthony]

You like to overpay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You like to love to overpay.

[Dave Anthony]

I get it. Well, you get all the data. You get the unlimited talk and text. You can use the phone, you can talk on it to people. It's one of those things. And so there are year end sales still going on until the end of the month. You can get rid of all those big crazy, crazy plans that you have with the other mobile companies and you get monthly charges, 50% off, three, six or 12 months on a limited. It's great. It's a good. It's a good phone company. That's all we're saying. It tastes like mint. So anything, anything you lick, I'm gonna.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Push back because I will say Dave has tried to get me to taste the phone a few times and it actually does not have a mint taste to it.

[Dave Anthony]

But it's not just the phones. It's the promotional material. You could probably lick your phone right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now in my mouth two to three times and I've never tasted.

[Dave Anthony]

And very minty. Yeah, I get it. Peppermint. Some people taste the spearmint.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nope.

[Dave Anthony]

So I'm telling everybody to get mint mobile because I use it and it's great. So this January, quit overspending on wireless with 50 off unlimited premium wireless plans start at [e-mail] dollop that's mintmobile.com dollop Limited time offer. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, $180 for 12 months. Plan required, $15 a month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only. Over 50 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. Cementmobile.com Gareth, we are also brought to you by Helix Sleep. How you, how you handling the colder season? Being indoors, more in your bedroom. Are you staying, Are you staying comfortable, Gareth, with your mattress?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love my mattress. I love the Helix. It is the greatest bed of all time. That's all I have to say about it. And there's nothing. Look, it gets cold here. People don't think it gets cold in California. It gets cold and just curling up in that Helix. Honestly, it's the only bed, I think that makes you want to go to bed at 5.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah. A lot more people are sleeping now because Helix is. Yeah, yeah. People start sleeping early, early in the day because it's such a good bed is what we're saying.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I agree.

[Dave Anthony]

Your mom loves it. I love it. Excuse me. So it's just important to my face. It's important to get a good night's sleep. I have had. I've had definitely a hot while I sleep. And that has definitely been relieved with the Helix mattress. And the other thing was I used to get lower back, back aches on my previous mattress. Oh, those are gone. And I'm sleeping like a baby. And by a baby, I mean. Yeah, not well, a lot of number twos.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I have a. I have a Boomer issue. So you go. You take the Helix sleep quiz. It sets you up. We both got the dusk Lux, California ducks Lux. And it, it kicks. It kicks bottoms. That's what we're saying. It's award winning. It's tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and W. And you're gonna be happy with it. They have a Helix guarantee. The Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with the new mattress. 100 day night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. That's pretty good. A study they ran found that 82% of those involved saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle while sleeping on a Helix mattress. I know your mom did and what I did.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's your deal?

[Dave Anthony]

So go to helixsleep.comdollop for 20 off statewide. That's helixsleep.comdoll for 20 off statewide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com dollop there we go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love it. I love it.

[Dave Anthony]

Gareth, the dollop is also brought to you by Squarespace. Is it a space that is square?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

No, it's not. We're talking about all in one website platform that helps you stand out and succeed online.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

And I would say just based on your comedy, that you would be nowhere if it wasn't for your. Your website done by Squarespace. I think you're not, not that talented. And the thing, that strange direction to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Take a conversation about Squarespace, the thing.

[Dave Anthony]

That boosted you up was your, your Squarespace website.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Squarespace has helped me promote, but I think the merits of my comedy at any time would stand. You need a website now to compete in this industry or any industry. But I don't like the fact that you're saying that I'm nothing without Squarespace.

[Dave Anthony]

That feels great. Website that can boost you above your talent level and put you in a higher plane than you deserve to be.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I want you to be very careful. I want you to be very careful.

[Dave Anthony]

It gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. To get it, you need, you know, you want to have the product.

[Dave Anthony]

Right. So that, Gareth is what Gareth has, is definitely a product that's What I would call it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Agreed.

[Dave Anthony]

What he does on his website is product.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Great.

[Dave Anthony]

You think that's his.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're trying to put me down. You're not putting me down.

[Dave Anthony]

No, you're. You're. You. You make content and so you streamline your work. Really built an appointment schedule.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Squarespace. I hate the guy talking about it. Right. You're using Squarespace to attack me is crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

You can get paid this ad in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The direction of how we used to have a merch store, but we don't anymore. But you decided that you'd attack me. I've done nothing to you.

[Dave Anthony]

You're paid on time with professional on brand invoices and online payments. Garrus website is very professional. I would. I would call it professional. I call it very streamlined. Everything you want to click on is there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

So here's what we're saying. It works. It'll work for you. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code dollop to save 10 of your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to use offer code, do save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain and boost. Hey, look, if you're really good at something, it'll boost up. But if you're adequate, like. Like example I'm using now, then it'll boost you up also.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's that example?

[Dave Anthony]

This holiday season. Here's what we're saying. We're saying train smarter, but not longer. We're talking about the hydro rolling machine. You get the best results. Just 20 minutes a day works 86% of your muscles in one seamless motion. It's. It's actually twice as effective as running or cycling.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I. I'll tell you. I go for 45 minute sessions. Sometimes it is the greatest. You just are working a totally different way than anything else. And it is great cardio. The best workout.

[Dave Anthony]

Legs, arms, core. Right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Arms, back, Everything. All of it. Shoulder. It's. Everything is getting worked out and you feel it. But it's like it isn't one of those things where you're just going, oh, the next day, oh, this is sore. That's sore. You just are able to get a full workout without really targeting just one zone. Everywhere gets it equally. Tons of classes available. You can.

[Dave Anthony]

They're led by Olympics and world class athletes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes, yes.

[Dave Anthony]

And they're out. They're out in the world right on your screen.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then there's this one guy named Al who leads one. I wouldn't take, take his. They're just very strange. It's just a guy on a couch. It's strange. Al's strange. But no, they have, they have tons of great instructors. You're out on the water, it's kind of like POV that you're facing or it's just honestly put together so well. You've got the big monitor, the slick machine and.

[Dave Anthony]

Couch thing and actually they.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Asked me to not even talk. That's kind of, I've, there's, I've gotten, I have some specifically put in mind which is a guy named Al and, and he's, you know, the whole thing is he's not even rowing. I mean the guy's just eating stuff and yelling at the camera. So it's just, it's hard. So. But, but you don't need, you don't need to get into the owl weeds on this stuff. The hydro is awesome. Couldn't be better. The best workout cardio machine I think there is.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, GQ called it the best rower of 2025. Same with GR and with free shipping. And you get a 30 day risk free trial and a one year warranty. It's all, it's all pretty sweet. So head over to hydro.com and use code DOLLOP and save up to $600 off on Hydro Rower during this holiday season. That's H Y-R-O-W.com code DOLLOP to save up to $600 hydro.com code DOLLOP.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's go.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph gradually spun an elaborate theological theory around plural marriage. I mean, this is what you do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is.

[Dave Anthony]

They always do this. It's always about.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, they're always. It seems like as we've learned, the fatal flaw is that the level of PI, the, the pious rules that you set out are impossible. Because if you're a human, you want to. These sins or whatever they are, you want to go drink or fornicate or whatever, but that, you're not allowed to do that because you know, the man in the clouds told you the rules to get into the club and you've got to subscribe to those. So now you got to get a little fudgy with those rules. And one of those rules is now I'm allowed to have a couple women.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, you could, you could also just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's all it is.

[Dave Anthony]

Could I just be rich like Bill Gates and that also. And then you get divorced.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Seeing Chomsky on the plane.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, that's tough. So he claimed that only marriage.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Manufacturing consent now is no longer like a term that I'm like, oh, cool.

[Dave Anthony]

He claimed that only marriage is eternally sealed through the church would bind couples in heaven.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Parents could also be sealed to their kids to bind them in the afterlife. So it means that in the afterlife you'll be together. Right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So, you know, here's what's weird. There were only three plates. It all got written down. But a lot seems to be evolving and changing. Did he find a fourth plate or something that he didn't tell us about?

[Dave Anthony]

The plates get wiped and the new stuff gets written on them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There's a seventh plate. It's about titty.

[Dave Anthony]

It's more of a saucer. But here's what it says. Get in with all the ladies here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There's a cup. I found a cup and it says a bunch of stuff.

[Dave Anthony]

So the larger family.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a whole china set.

[Dave Anthony]

The larger the family, the larger the blessings. More wives and more kids then would mean more blessings in heaven. Heaven sounds great. It's all. It's all like if we.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, they really. The strength by numbers indoctrinate from the womb.

[Dave Anthony]

It's crazy. Joseph first raised the subject with trusted insiders, referring to polygamy, polygamy as celestial marriage, eternal marriage, and the patriarchal order of marriage. And also spiritual waiflery, spiritual wifery.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's the better one.

[Dave Anthony]

That's good.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It.

[Dave Anthony]

Many of the apostles were confronted in a gas. Yeah, I'm sorry, you're what, by the way?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, let's say that I'm in this cult.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, good.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then, you know, it is what it is. It's like. I'm like. But then this guy comes in and he's like, you get. You could have more wives. I'd be like, I mean, I don't hate this twist.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, what are we. Where. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't wait to tell my wife this news. Helen. I'm allowed more. Oh, my God. I get more husbands. No. What are you crazy? Disgusting. Follow up question. You stay here, you'll just have tension with my new young wife.

[Dave Anthony]

So. It took months, but Brigham signed on and began officiating Joseph's weddings.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Here we are.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph, quote, soon pursued polygamy with the same dynamic and chaotic energy that characterized his ecclesiastical organization, business pursuits, and political stratagems. After marrying two other women in late 1841, the Prophet was sealed to perhaps 11 women in the first eight months of 1842.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

Most of whom were already married.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

But so the vibe I'm getting is that I should marry your wife. That's the vibe I'm getting.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You swear to. This came from God?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes, it came from God.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How did he tell you this?

[Dave Anthony]

He was like, hey, you know Linda. I was like, yes. And he goes, you gotta get on that. Those are his exact words. You gotta get on that. And I was like, she's married to Bob.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And he was like, and we really are in love.

[Dave Anthony]

You can both.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love her.

[Dave Anthony]

You can both get on that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We. We really connect. Yeah, but you take her now.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I'm gonna take her. Well, for the night, you know.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, but I thought you were married.

[Dave Anthony]

She'll still live with you, but we're gonna have, like, a second marriage thing where every. You know, couple.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So I stay married to her?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Yep.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is that true?

[Dave Anthony]

Yep. And then I just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're also married to her.

[Dave Anthony]

I bring her into the cabin. It's gonna be. I might have a special cabin for this stuff. And it's called the. The Hot Profit Cabin.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Feels like you just came up with it.

[Dave Anthony]

No, no, no. There's a. There's a plaque. Hot Profit Cabin. And we're gonna just. I'll bring my wives in. I'll spend the night with them to bond and I'll. We'll seal. I'll seal the. Out of it. It.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then you can help us. Ocean. I do. Like, I really wish he kept saying he found more plates. Like, as he gets into, like, he becomes Jim Morrison. Like, there's another plate. I found another plate back there, and I gotta take Shelly and. Yeah, like, I'm picking up like, 10 new ones because this. This. This fourth plate is personally my favorite plate.

[Dave Anthony]

New plate. Down with anal.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So I guess you're all wondering why I called you here today. Let me guess. Another plate. Bingo. So nobody can a woman except for me. This new plate is cuckoo bananas, y'.

[Dave Anthony]

All.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Christian, I want to see some of these plates. You're not allowed to, dude.

[Dave Anthony]

You can't see the plate last time.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are you talking about? It's.

[Dave Anthony]

What are you crazy?

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's just the whole thing. The whole thing will topple if you see these plates. Dude, this is a house of plates.

[Dave Anthony]

You lay eyes on them, the whole place burns.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are you talking about?

[Dave Anthony]

So is that your daughter?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Last night, as you most of you know, Roger and I had a big argument about the plates. Crazy as found another plate today. From God. I get to beat Roger to death with a shovel.

[Dave Anthony]

What the man? I just said you shouldn't. My Wife.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, that's one of the plates that I should. And I don't want to beat you to death with a shovel.

[Dave Anthony]

Show the plates, man.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're not allowed to see them, idiot. How many times. Alright, alright, for the last time, you now have to see the plates. They keep popping up and I keep finding them, but nobody see the plates. Okay, best case scenario, you could be next door while I'm under a sheet writing it down with a. Because there's a rock trailer.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey, I found a plate. It says just so he go himself. It says go yourself.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You first of all, if you found one, you shouldn't be showing it to us. Okay, so we're good? No, hold on. So we're good?

[Dave Anthony]

No, no.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So we're good? No. Okay, hold on.

[Dave Anthony]

You want to my wife. What are you doing? Hold on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm gonna be right back. Oh, I found a block. Yeah, I did, I did. You gotta shut the up, Ted. I found a plate that just said Ted gotta shut his mouth. So we're now at the 32 plates. Okay. So let's all just be a little more chill from now on. Everything's still really good, guys.

[Dave Anthony]

We have no money and you're begging our wives.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't make me find another plate. So help me God, I'll find two plates tonight. Okay, this is the. This God just decided he was gonna bury plates and tell me what was up. Believe that.

[Dave Anthony]

So, yeah, he. He ultimately marries around 30 women. Multiple women. Said.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean that's such a crazy. Like later in the religious.

[Dave Anthony]

Like, hey, you think it would start right away, you mean? Yeah, yeah. But I, I truly think it's because his wife got a little older and.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And he.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, totally agree.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But it's also. That's where you're like the grift. Like there had to be people. Like, I don't think there was first three plates.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's just riffing this.

[Dave Anthony]

Multiple women said they shared a bed with Joseph after being sealed with him. And some hardly saw him again after they were married.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's kind of weird.

[Dave Anthony]

He just wanted to bang them later. See ya. Joseph told Brigham he should get in on the action and find another wife. Wow. He wasn't into it. Brigham quote, I felt as if the grave was better for me. But after more talks with Joseph quote I was filled with the Holy Ghost and said he was ready to go ahead.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, fine.

[Dave Anthony]

You talk me into it, I'll. A young lady.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote no one would marry more women in navu than Brigham Young. Wow. The exact dates of several early polygamous ceilings are uncertain. But Young was one of the first men besides Smith to attempt to live out the principle of plural marriage. He first proposed to a 17 year old Martha, a new arrival from England. He was 41. Rumors spread that he and Heber locked her in a room for several days to convince her. By the way, that's not. That's not what convincing means. By the way, we need to come up with a different word for the word you've chosen.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hi. Morning, Martha. I would love to have some food.

[Dave Anthony]

I would love to give you some food.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We just need to kind of.

[Dave Anthony]

There's a way for you to get eggs.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're just trying to figure out what we're gonna do here.

[Dave Anthony]

There. Okay. Maybe, maybe, maybe you want some eggs? Or I don't know, maybe you want to eat tonight? Dinner.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just take.

[Dave Anthony]

You know what love is?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, bring. Take a walk.

[Dave Anthony]

You know, love is a little girl walk. You know, what about this?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What about this doesn't scream God's plan to you?

[Dave Anthony]

Seriously.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, how cool is this, right? Welcome to America.

[Dave Anthony]

You know, dudes your age don't know how to make a woman come.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, we're gonna actually, we gotta get out of here for a little while. Crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

Did I go in too hot?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, real hot.

[Dave Anthony]

I did.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Because I was speaking the truth.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Dave Anthony]

You know. You know I love it. Look at that smile on your face. Come on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because I'm very uncomfortable. Come on. Very uncomfortable.

[Dave Anthony]

That's on a plate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Very uncomfortable.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph told me that's on a plate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't think you're allowed to find plates too.

[Dave Anthony]

No, he told me what's on the plate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I didn't find it. The one guy of the religion who pretends he finds plates is so funny. I found a plate. Like calling his. I found three plates too. What?

[Dave Anthony]

What are you talking about?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I found three plates.

[Dave Anthony]

This one says I get a hot rod.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So this one let me know there's going to be more plates too.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. So rumor spread that he and Heber locked in a room for several days to convince her and Joseph helped by offering that if she left Brigham after a couple of months, he would quote, take her on if he left.

[Gareth Reynolds]

If she left, she left Brigham.

[Dave Anthony]

So he's like. I guess what he's saying is Mary Brigham. And if you're not into it, I'll be here. In case. If you're, you know, you can jump in. Jump in with.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Worst case, you end up with me. I have 38 wives.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm pretty hot for 37. Martha and her family fled Nauvoo soon after. So Brigham married 21 year old Lucy Ann Decker. And Joseph officiated, quote, at the time, she became Young's first plural wife. Lucianne Decker was already the wife of William Sealy, whom she had married around the age of 14. Celia was an alcoholic. And record show Brigham paid Sealy 19 in July 1842, possibly for the right to marry his wife.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, we still doing this God plan stuff?

[Dave Anthony]

I just can't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So I bought her, I paid a.

[Dave Anthony]

Drug to have her. We don't know if Brigham's existing wife Marianne knew it was common to perform these ceremonies in secret in the early days. Yeah, because it's crazy. It's the truth. Because you're married like that. Because you don't want your wife to know.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, here's what happened. Brigham brought it up once and the woman was like, excuse me. And then he's like, we can't tell. Yeah, no, they are so weird. About 29 other.

[Dave Anthony]

Seriously, like, what the. Okay, how about this secret marriage?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, we just do it at night.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, we get married. We get married in a cave or something.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are you married to her? No, baby.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, not. No. We can only imagine how she felt when she found out. Marianne and Brigham were sealed in a ceremony of in May 1843, so their marriage would be eternal. That's great. Brigham spent a lot of time defending Joseph's behavior and marriage proclamation. They didn't tell Joseph's brother Hyrum about it because they thought he'd lose his.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I such a wet noodle.

[Dave Anthony]

You know what? He just doesn't like the party.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, the truth is, I like, if you start, you come out of.

[Dave Anthony]

The gate and you go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then this religion, you get 10 wives. All right, well, there you go. Now. We started there.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's just. Yeah, I just. I find it strange. I also find it strange that you gotta, you know, do the ceremony in front of, you know. It's weird. Anyway, it's already weird to do it, like with one. It's all weird.

[Dave Anthony]

And also, like, they invented the pineapple that you put turn upside down and.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That'S a big one to indicate swinging.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. H had said, quote, if an angel from heaven should come and preach such doctrine, you would be sure to see his cloven foot and cloud of blackness over his head. So he's like. If he's like. Plural marriage would only come from the devil, bro.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look, even if the devil shows up and says you get to bang 29 out of broad, so am I kidding? You know what I'm talking about.

[Dave Anthony]

But then Hyrum heard rumors, and he confronted Brigham, who said, quote, I don't know anything about what you know. I know what I know. And harem kept pressing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What? Hey, wait, that is such a stammer.

[Dave Anthony]

It is a. I don't know anything.

[Gareth Reynolds]

About what you know. I know everything about what I know. I mean, what did you hear that I did?

[Dave Anthony]

A wife. I know what I know, not what you know. I know differently.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I had a wife.

[Dave Anthony]

My knowing is different than your knowing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hold on. What are you. Why don't we all settle down? What are you hearing? Are you hearing something? Other wives.

[Dave Anthony]

40. 40 of them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

40 wives.

[Dave Anthony]

So Hiram keeps pressing him. And Brigham made him swear not to speak against plural marriage. And Hiram then wept and then happy and then praised the Lord.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hiram did?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Within days.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I now have brides.

[Dave Anthony]

Within days, Joseph sealed Hyrum to his current wife and his first dead wife.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wife. Wait, wait. Joseph took Hiram? So Hyrum is now marrying Joseph's wife.

[Dave Anthony]

I think, and his dead wife. No, Joseph's. That. That's a little confusing. Oh, no, he. He sealed Hiram to his. The wife he has. So. Meaning him and his wife will be forever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, okay, gotcha.

[Dave Anthony]

And then his dead wife. So they're always gonna. Haven't gonna be together.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

And then. And then that summer, Hiram married four more wives.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right? So Hiram.

[Dave Anthony]

So he's like, I'm always sealed. I'm sealed there forever. So I got. It's a way to lock it in. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Boy, it must be awesome to be a woman. It must be great.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1843, the Prophet.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good news. I'm having another bride.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1843, the Prophet sent Brigham to raise money for the temple and a new new guest house. In Boston, Brigham met wealthy Augusta Cobb, who joined the Mormons ten years prior. Augusta left her husband and most of her children to follow Brigham to Zion. She brought a daughter, Charlotte, and a baby son, who died shortly after, because, you know, rough trip for a baby. Augusta and Brigham married once in Nauvoo. So she basically was.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She killed Mary.

[Dave Anthony]

She. No, she didn't kill her. Kind of. Yeah. She. She left her husband and took her baby on a very treacherous trip for that age to hang with Brigham and then married him. Yeah, basically.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. In Zion.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Which is near where the Cubs play.

[Dave Anthony]

It's. Yeah. I mean, it's far away, but. Yeah, still, it's other side of the state.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm having fun.

[Dave Anthony]

I know you're. Let's just see. Taking swipes of the Cubs has got to stop him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There's another team. I'd like to take some swipes out.

[Dave Anthony]

Gareth is very angry at the Bears. He does not want them to exist. He's having a very hard time with it. Gareth feels about the Bears the way I do about the Dodgers.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I don't. I just think it's really cool for a team when they, when they like, it's. It's cool to have a Super bowl parade in the regular season.

[Dave Anthony]

Here we go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's good for you guys. It's awesome.

[Dave Anthony]

Here we go. It's cool to see what it's interesting to see. Say the exact same stuff I said about the Dodgers seven years ago.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Cool. It's like, like seems. You seem.

[Dave Anthony]

It's coming.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You seem cool.

[Dave Anthony]

You're going to have a hard time with it because it's going to be a few years of success.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't agree.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. And you don't think that's bias at all, or.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I, I, I. Look, they got a quarterback. There's no doubt they got a quarterback. But I also think that the. I, I mean, this is what everyone said about the Lions last year. You're not going to be. You're in a tough division. You're not going to be. But all I'm. All I'm suggesting is the celebrating and week 13 being totally normal to have a parade. Makes sense. It's very. That's a winning culture.

[Dave Anthony]

Yep. You're okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Go get them. Go Bears.

[Dave Anthony]

As. Oh, so wait, after taking out our quarterback with an old. So he mar.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Go ahead. Yeah. You played the starters have a Super bowl parade.

[Dave Anthony]

Are you okay?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm fine. I think it's great.

[Dave Anthony]

I think what's happening is fine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're down the start our. Our best defensive player. And then in the first quarter, you took out our. Our quarterback with an illegal hit. And then. And then after you win that game in overtime, then you have a parade. I think that is.

[Dave Anthony]

It was a spectacular catch.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It was.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Great. Good for you. Yeah. You got to overtime especially.

[Dave Anthony]

Especially because it was against a guy that did a terrible, shitty hit on that same guy who covered him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You mean that legal hit?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, totally shitty hit, but yeah, it. Yeah, right. It was a terrible, shitty hit.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. If the packers won that game, probably wouldn't be a parade. I mean, we actually won the game like two weeks ago.

[Dave Anthony]

Are you okay, though?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I'm fine, but Just good luck. Enjoy your parade. Get out there.

[Dave Anthony]

As by the way, the same day. Same day.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Make it your Nava.

[Dave Anthony]

The same day that Brigham married those Zion bears. The same day that Brigham married the woman who followed him all the way to nauvoo, he married 19 year old Harry Cook. So he married two ladies on one day.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's the what? Harry Cook. Harriet, how are you?

[Dave Anthony]

Hey, I'm Harry.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I am loving. I'm ready to be your bride.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm your new lady.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

As Naboo expands.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Finish on my chest.

[Dave Anthony]

Get it right in the hair there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, there you go.

[Dave Anthony]

Rub it around.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There you go.

[Dave Anthony]

Go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Want to go get some lamb, babe? I got to go take a poop. Then you want to go get lamb?

[Dave Anthony]

You want to cuddle in lamb?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's watch the game.

[Dave Anthony]

As Nabu expanded.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How good is this lamb, hun?

[Dave Anthony]

No. Eat it with your hands.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Starting to think my new bride might not be the Harriet I thought it was.

[Dave Anthony]

God damn it. We. I am so hot for you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Come to bed. I'm going to put my CPAP on. If I snore, nudge me and make me go on my side.

[Dave Anthony]

Sorry about that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There we go.

[Dave Anthony]

You want me to put a tennis ball in my shit?

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right. I better read Sports Illustrated and call it. Love you.

[Dave Anthony]

As Navu expanded to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

His lamb is not agreeing with me. I apologize if anything goes south. I think I ate too much that lamb.

[Dave Anthony]

Your new lady Harry has a lot of gas.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good night, babe.

[Dave Anthony]

Sorry about the fudge. As Nauvoo expanded to a city almost the size of Chicago. So it's. That's why. Well, that's why the governor wants him there. Yeah, like the number of votes and like the money it's bringing in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, it's. It's the. The Southern strategy.

[Dave Anthony]

So tensions grew with non Mormons in Illinois. Wigs.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just seems like people in Chicago are ready to buy into a cult pretty quick.

[Dave Anthony]

No, they're against it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, I'm just talking about today. No.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, you're back to the thing. Yeah, yeah, let it go. It's kind of weird. In Illinois, wigs and Democrats says dodger man. Well, that's different.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, dude, would you just leave one team alone?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, look, the team. The team that I hate hate is literally helping to fund concentration camps.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So the best.

[Dave Anthony]

A little. In Illinois, wigs and Democrats supported repealing the city charter and threatened to extradite Joseph to Missouri where he'd escaped prison. So Joseph is contemplating a different Zion. What about a new Zion? The Bahamas, maybe In California, Texas or Oregon where there's nobody. He's basically thinking like, where are no people far. When no presidential candidate in the 1844 election would pledge to protect Mormons, Joseph launched his own presidential campaign.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh wow.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph, quote, I go emphatically, virtuously and humanely for a theod democracy where God and the people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteousness.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean it's, we're so still near the, the idea that religion is not part of our politics. But like, so people probably like, wait, what?

[Dave Anthony]

Huh? Joseph appointed Brigham to a new council, the Council of 50.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh Christ. Which was like, this is like if those like infomercial ads that sell coins that are commemorative was a religion, it.

[Dave Anthony]

Was kind of a government in waiting for when plates. It was kind of a government awaiting for when earthly governments destroy each other through war and tribulation. But before the apocalypse, the council would run Joseph's presidential campaign and consider the move to a new settlement. So they're going to come up with a place like where can we go investigate it? Joseph declared, quote, the whole of America is Zion. So Mormon churches could and should be built everywhere. So that's a new.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's like Applebee's.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, it's kind of like a way to get out of actually picking the Zion. Right, because he's failed twice.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A rotating Zion.

[Dave Anthony]

So Brigham Turd toured around the northeast with Mormon elders preaching and politically organizing. He called Whig nominee Henry Clay a black leg in politics. Democratic nominee Martin Van Buren a fop or a fool. He spoke at the Democratic state conference in Boston for Joseph did not go well. The Boston Evening Transcript quote, the meeting was broken up with much disorder and no little confusion by the interference of interlopers not of the faithful. So in Nauvoo, an away game. Yeah. In Nauvoo, a dissent is, is brewing. The plural marriage revelations did not help that whole situation. I mean, some excommunic, excommunicated dissenters published a new newspaper, the Nauvoo Expositor, quote, to explore the vicious principles of Joseph Smith and those who practice the same abominations and whoredoms.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A talking paper.

[Dave Anthony]

A shit talking paper about their dirty sex ways. Yeah, expected.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I, I don't know, I'm a little, I, I thought you could just take 30 wives and get away with it.

[Dave Anthony]

Joseph ordered the papers printing press destroyed and he was arrested for rioting. And he escaped across the river to the frustration of his followers in Nauvoo, who were being subjected to anti Mormon.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Mobs now he was like, you should have. Raou should have swam across the river like I did. What are you stupid?

[Dave Anthony]

How could their prophet abandon them? Joseph succumbed to pressure and agreed to return to stand trial.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I wasn't. I was. I was in the night looking for a new Zion.

[Dave Anthony]

I just, like, I was just looking for a place to think, contemplate everything.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are you guys.

[Dave Anthony]

Flee across the river was better.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I was consumed with the spirit of looking for a new Zion.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, you left me a new wife.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, about that. My, I ain't been the same since you stuffed me with lamb and figs. Oh, Christ, stop talking.

[Dave Anthony]

So he's gonna. He's gonna stand trial and car.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm not mad at you, babe.

[Dave Anthony]

June 27th. Vigilantes broke into the jail he was being held in and fatally shot Joseph and Hiram. Oh, do you miss them now? Quote, his body pierced by bullets, the prophet fell from the jail's two story window. His final words were, oh, Lord, my God. So Brigham heard rumors of their deaths. So remember, he's traveling around the Northeast on July 9th outside Boston, and he met up with a fellow apostle in Boston.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He met up with a fellow apostle. I'll have the chicken sandwich. And what does the apostle want? Caesar salad.

[Dave Anthony]

So he wept in grief. But Brigham didn't cry as he believed in. He didn't believe in showing emotion. Oh, you don't want to do that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But I also think, wouldn't. Wouldn't you be like, that's great. God finally called for him.

[Dave Anthony]

I think they're actually friends though. But yeah, no, you're right. But I don't know. You still miss your brother.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You see him real soon.

[Dave Anthony]

He tried to raise the spirits of other apostles and suggested a bright future for the church because Joseph had done what neat was needed for them to now thrive. But here's the big question. How do they choose a successor? Sidney Rigdon was Brigham's biggest competitor. He had been running a church in Pittsburgh for a few years. So he is outside of the community of Nauvoo. And he didn't believe in plural marriage. Loser.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't love that.

[Dave Anthony]

A church conference was held.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can we do three? Maybe?

[Dave Anthony]

A church conference was held Aug. 8. Sydney spent two hours trying to convince members that he was the chosen one. And then Brigham pointed out that Joseph had given the apostles all the spiritual guidance and authority to run the church. Church and complete justice prophecies. Quote, we have all the signs and the tokens to give the porter of heaven, and he will let us in. And so The Saints voted almost almost unanimously for the 12 to lead the church and implicitly Brigham Young as a leader of the 12. So he found a little.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He kind of. King Solomon did a little.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. He was like. He was like, well, why don't we let the group do it?

[Gareth Reynolds]

He was like, I'm the chosen one. He was like, I don't know who would.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, let's just have these 12 guys that Brigham that Joseph loves.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that too. But.

[Dave Anthony]

But.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But.

[Dave Anthony]

And then if those guys get picked, you know, I'm just the leader, then I guess, you know, because I'm the leader of those 12 guys, so it's a good idea.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Keep in mind, I'm super into lots of wives.

[Dave Anthony]

I love wives, love to play the field. I want to marry all your wives. Anywho, Many of the members later said when Brigham spoke, they saw and heard Joseph quote. Not only was it the voice of Joseph which was heard, but he was so full of. It seemed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It was so reminiscent. The original bullshitter.

[Dave Anthony]

I haven't heard so much garbage out of a human since Joseph.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

And it seemed in the eyes of the people as though it was the very person of Joseph which stood before them. And then the idea spread that Brigham was indeed the chosen one.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, he was originally supposed to be.

[Dave Anthony]

It D. Is not technically selected to be president of the church. He unofficially took on the role.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's awesome.

[Dave Anthony]

With Heber Kimball and his cousin William Richards as top advisors. Now he trod softly. He constantly affirmed his love of the prophet while never pretending to be Joseph or writing scripture. He and the apostles did claim divine authority and communication with God. Like, we're talking to God, us guys. Because that's what happens when a guy finds plates in the ground and he's like, I'm talking to God. And then he's like, these other guys can talk to God. And that's how talking to God works.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a big God club.

[Dave Anthony]

It gets passed on by a guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, you get it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, of course I get it now.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham's relationship with Joseph's family was prickly. Emma had not liked Brigham since he started supporting polygamy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's Joseph's thing.

[Dave Anthony]

She wanted him to come out against it to stop Joseph.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, but it's awesome.

[Dave Anthony]

It is great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's really good. I get why you hate it, but do you get why I love it?

[Dave Anthony]

At first I was like, here's the thing. I don't think God wants us to be married to more than one person. But then I fucked a young lady. And I was like, wow, God wants this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We find it complicated, but we make it work, don't we, babe?

[Dave Anthony]

He also, when he came back in August after Joseph had died, he didn't check in on her. So she's. She's prickly. He went right into like trying to win the position.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So Brigham knew he had to keep favor with Emma Lucy, who's the second wife, and other Smith family members. The Smith family are in charge of patriarch patriarchal breath blessings. So Joseph's brother was appointed to be church patriarch. So they're playing political games. Right? But rumors started that William thought he or Joseph's eldest son, Joseph III, should be president. Joseph 3rd's 11, so he's like, so me or the, or the 11 year.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Old, any of this needs to be held. Like I would, honestly, if I was just like from the outside, I'd be like, go with the 11 year old, see what he says.

[Dave Anthony]

And then William was found preaching about plural marriage outside of the community. That's forbidden, so.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, you mean plural marriage. Like you could marry other women who were not Mormon or.

[Dave Anthony]

You mean he was just preaching or just preaching about that? It's okay. Right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

They publicly denied it and apparently believing Brigham might kill him. Now William fled and was excommunicated because you can't tell people what happens in no Nauvoo.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, it's.

[Dave Anthony]

Don't tell people are the ladies here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So. By the way, you know, things are in a good place when you're little Zion. You can't. You have a non disclosure clause.

[Dave Anthony]

The best churches make you sign an NDA.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean Scientology, we, we all stand in your shadow.

[Dave Anthony]

So Brigham followed procedures and practices, running spiritual rituals, baptizing the dead and laying hands on the sick, all that stuff. And this helped rebuild the sense of community and trust. And people started calling him the President El Presidente, but still, quote, guards stood outside Young's house at night and protected him by day from rumored assassins.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

Gotta be paranoid.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's like rogue.

[Dave Anthony]

This comes with being paranoid.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham married Clarissa Ross, 31 year old stepdaughter of his friend Isaac Chase. Nine days later, he married Joseph's widow, Louisa. He wrote, quote, great is the work of Mac, great is the work of the Lord in these last days. This is awesome.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, he really wanted me to a bunch.

[Dave Anthony]

He tried to convince the Saints to stay in Navu, but people were worried because their prophet had been murdered. So they are like, we got to find a new Zion. And while the governor Promised to protect him from, from, Protect them from violence. In private, he admitted he didn't know. Also, he didn't know how to do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It one election away from being turned around.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, but he's basically like, I, I can protect you, but I really, I can't. Like, if mobs come, you're. Then the state legislator revoked Navu's charter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, come on.

[Dave Anthony]

That meant, quote, the loss of Navu's government, including its militia.

[Gareth Reynolds]

When is God going to step in?

[Dave Anthony]

Courts, police, and city council. So basically the whole town is.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. On.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham is furious and he declared, quote, this nation is doomed to destruction and pointed to Joseph's prophecy about the states being dissolved.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Keep in mind Joseph was just some guy. This is what that he talked about.

[Dave Anthony]

He reformed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's like Charlie Kirk. He spoke so wisely.

[Dave Anthony]

He reformed the Council of 50 and gave them the task of finding a new home for the Mormons. Maybe northern Texas, west of the Rocky Mountains, in Oregon, Mexican California, Vancouver Island. There's a lot of places.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, great.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham increased security in Nauvoo. He made whistling companies of young men.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Whistling companies. Is that like danger whistling or.

[Dave Anthony]

They just think so? Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're gonna be like meerkats.

[Dave Anthony]

Who, quote, conducted surveillance on visitors and other persons considered undesirable, whistled at them and brandished sticks and knives until they left. So they're, they're annoying people. It's probably the, it's probably the louder one because you sound like a bird. Like you're not scary.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Would you stick around? No, I'm out of here. It's crazy. This guy has a sword in tune.

[Dave Anthony]

Don't go to that town. They are so fucking annoying. In July, scouts returned from the west and reported buffalo herds and mostly friend friendly Native Americans. It's great out there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We should ruin it.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham believed their future home would lie in upper California, which in 1845 was a huge swath of Mexican claimed territory. California, Arizona, Nevada and Utah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sounds like that's where you're from. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

In late August, they decided to send 3,000 men to California the next spring to find their new home. They also saw Brigham Young as the next governor of California and Heber Kimball, vice governor. So they're gonna like take over the sh. They're like, we're gonna take that over. And that's a pretty big deal because they'd never been there and they're already.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They'Re already plotting it out.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. The plan was not to rush yet, take their time to find the right location. But then anti Mormons Started burning down Mormon. Mormon houses in the southwest of the kids county. And Brigham was sent a letter from the anti Mormon leader, quote, that if we would agree to leave in the spring, we might live in peace during the winter. He really hated giving into threats, but knew most of the community weren't up for a fight. And on December 18, a grand jury in Springfield indicted Brigham Young and 11 other members on fraud charges.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Come on. For God.

[Dave Anthony]

Police arrived with warrants to arrest them. And then William Miller appeared outside the temple and tricked the officers with how he was dressed and talking into believing he was Brigham Young. Hello. I am Brigham Young. I like to marry all of them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

See, this is the problem with not knowing what anyone looks like right now.

[Dave Anthony]

I could marry your wife if she'd enjoy that. I run this. Hello.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Talks like him.

[Dave Anthony]

I am Brigham Young.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Young. Yeah, you keep saying I marry lots of ladies. Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Welcome to Zion. I am Brigham Young here. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'll tell you what you're saying who you are so much, it's weird.

[Dave Anthony]

Is it weird that I, Brigham Young. I'm standing out here saying, I bring them young? Yeah. Hello, I'm Brigham Young.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, we need to see some identification.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't have that since it is 18. Something. We don't have ID but you can see all my wives if you'd like. Wait, ladies. I bring them young, leader of the new Zion. Hello.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Bring him young. A lot taller.

[Dave Anthony]

I just got married a second ago. Would you like to see my new wife?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's your name?

[Dave Anthony]

I bring him young.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's pretty good. Honestly, I feel like there's not much we can do here.

[Dave Anthony]

Is that your friend? Hello, I'm Brigham Young.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Quiet.

[Dave Anthony]

Some people do say that Brigham Young is an. But he's not.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes, it's him. I don't know. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are my whistlers.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, correct. All right, where are you.

[Dave Anthony]

Bringing. Meanwhile, Brigham Young and others snuck out the back of the temple.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Quote, I'm also Brigham Young, disguised with.

[Dave Anthony]

Other men's hats and coats.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're not Brigham Young.

[Dave Anthony]

Brigham was scared if he wasn't arrested, he'd be killed, too, like Joseph. So in late December, they finally opened the new Nauvoo Temple, even though they were leaving in February. So they finally built their temple, and they're opening it even though they're bailing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

What are you gonna do? Stop building it? Like, the thing's almost done.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's like the Queen of Versailles. You ever seen that documentary? Yeah, well, yeah, it's like. It's. It's all over, but they're like, finally, yeah, our home.

[Dave Anthony]

They had their final rituals at their months long old temple. And the next day, the temple's roof caught on fire from a stove pipe, just like God would want, and the whole building collapsed. So that seemed like a sign to them to move. Thousands of Mormons left the town over the next months. Brigham prophesied, quote, we will go to a land where there are at last no old settlers to. To quarrel with us. Obviously, Native Americans aren't people to them. He felt confident, not them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They don't count.

[Dave Anthony]

He felt confident. He knew where this new utopia would be. And that, Gareth, is the end of part two.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't wait to find out where they go. Boy, it is. Even hearing that, it is shocking that Mormonism has lasted this long. I mean, it is extreme.

[Dave Anthony]

They're. I mean, they're all are extreme.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is extreme. You know, this is like Christianity, Scientology.

[Dave Anthony]

I always wonder if it's just because we're closer to its beginning.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think that's a part of it.

[Dave Anthony]

But like Scientology is the same way. You just read it and you're like, what are you guys doing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's. It's. Well, it's that. Yeah, it's. Honestly, that's what it is. You hear the machinations of it more recently and you're like, they're just riffing.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they're riffing and they're just trying. It's just a couple guys trying to get what they want, which is to be able to have sex with a bunch of girls.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Mansion and money and all that.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's. That's just crazy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But honestly, the. The plates would. The plates would be the thing. Like I. If I were at the dinner table, like, and I'm 15, I mean, @ the. I'm not gonna let the plates thing.

[Dave Anthony]

Go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. And be like, why, why the sheet with the plates? Why did they have to do the.

[Dave Anthony]

Sheets? I don't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Know. Like, where are they now? Why wouldn't you just make fake plates? Yeah, that would have gone a long.

[Dave Anthony]

Way. But it's easier to be like. You can't see.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It. It is. It's genius. If you buy in, it's.

[Dave Anthony]

Genius. And people buy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

In. Magic plates, you can't see. I got no.

[Dave Anthony]

Questions. All right, the. So this was the re. Research done by Charlotte George. And the main source, John G. Turner, Brigham Young pioneer, prophet. And another source, Mr. Warner, Brigham.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Young. Hey, Dollop fans. I know you love the dollop. You love listening to the Dollop. Do you want to watch the dollop. You're like, gareth, what are you talking about? By the way, it's not Gary, it's Gareth. Well, we have partnered with Lakeside Animation and we are starting to animate some of our episodes. So if you want to go watch a five parter animation, which is actually like a 22 minute episode or 30 minute episode, I can't remember, of the rube, you can go to LakeSide Animation on YouTube and watch a really awesome some animation of the rube. It really genuinely kicks ass and we're very proud of it. And the more you share it, the more you give it to people, the more you follow Lakeside, all that stuff, the better chance we have of making a lot more of them. We're already making a second one, so go there and watch the.