Transcript

Dave Anthony (0:00)

The Dollop will be on tour in March 2026. We are going to be in Buffalo on March 22. Then on the 23rd, we'll be in Syracuse. Then on March 24, we'll be in Boston at the Wilbur. Then on the 25th, we'll be in Bridgeport. And 26, the Gramercy Theater in New York. And then on the 27th, will be in Albany. And then on the 28th, we'll be in Pittsburgh. And then on the 29th, we'll be in Philadelphia. And then on the 30th, we'll be in Washington, D.C. at the Lincoln. The. Why would you name a theater after Lincoln? Anyway, that's our March 2026 tour. Go to dolloppodcast.com tour for tickets. You're listening to the Dollop. This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to one of the elders, Gareth Reynolds.

Gareth Reynolds (0:56)

Elder Reynolds, who has no idea what ye. Topic will be about.

Dave Anthony (1:02)

You weren't. Were you wearing the hat?

Gareth Reynolds (1:04)

No, I just put it on.

Dave Anthony (1:05)

Okay. So I. There's certain things I do pick up on.

Gareth Reynolds (1:09)

Yeah.

Dave Anthony (1:10)

Like when we're here for two hours together, and then you put on a hat, and then I, like, I realize that.

Gareth Reynolds (1:15)

Yeah, it's like, highlights.

Dave Anthony (1:16)

Yeah. I have, like, a.

Gareth Reynolds (1:17)

Your perception.

Dave Anthony (1:18)

Remarkable memory. I can figure out what's around me. Like, that guy didn't have on.

Gareth Reynolds (1:24)

The way that he keeps bragging about taking a cognitive test and acing. It is the funniest thing ever.

Dave Anthony (1:31)

It's amazing.

Gareth Reynolds (1:32)

It's so funny. Keep being like. And they're just like. They're presenting you with a dog and a camel and a sunshine and a tree. And you've got to remember, though, it's like, dude, they gave you a kindergartener's test, and you're like, and I won the exam. That crazy.

Dave Anthony (1:57)

He. He. I watched him giving a speech in, like, in some. Front of some crowd. They're testing it out. And he. It made no sense. It was like two minutes of making no sense whatsoever.

Summary

The Dollop Episode 716 – Brigham Young, Part Two

Podcast: The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds
Date: January 13, 2026
Theme:
Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds explore the tumultuous mid-history of Mormon leader Brigham Young – following the collapse of the Mormon settlement in Missouri, the rise of religious schisms, violence against followers, and, eventually, Brigham’s ascent to leadership alongside the proliferation of polygamy. As always, the episode delivers irreverent commentary, quick wit, and sharp skepticism about organized religion’s evolution.

Main Themes and Episode Overview

The Dollop’s Format: Dave narrates a researched historical story to Gareth, who hasn’t heard it before.
Subject: The fate of the early Mormon church post-Kirtland collapse, focusing on Brigham Young as right-hand to founder Joseph Smith, the dominance and crises of the Missouri and Illinois years, and the beginnings of Mormon polygamy.
Tone: Irreverent, sardonic, playful ridicule especially regarding religious mythologies and leadership power-plays.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Collapse in Missouri, Rise of Paranoia, and Early Mormon Violence (03:05–15:00)

After their bank failed, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young fled from Ohio to Missouri, seeking protection and gathering other Mormon followers.
The Mormon leadership, increasingly wanting loyalty, excommunicated dissenters—even those who were original witnesses to Joseph Smith’s "plates."
Formation of enforcer vigilante groups ("Danites," "Big Fan Brother of Gideon," "Daughters of Zion"), threatening or assaulting internal dissenters.
- [05:23] Dave: "The most militant followers organized, quote, a secret oath-bound vigilante society dedicated to quashing first the dissent and disloyalty."
Joseph Smith’s claims escalated: identifying sites in Missouri as sacred and prophesying that Adam would return there.
Rising local hostility: The Mormons’ expansion, self-segregation, and acquisition of land inflamed tensions, leading to violence between Mormon groups and “old settlers.”
“We will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled” – Sydney Rigdon’s July 4th sermon (10:48–11:13), spurring wider conflict.
After brawls and violence at an election, Mormons began confiscating property and later burning buildings.
The Missouri governor issued an extermination order against the Mormons.
- [13:19] Dave: "The governor...now declared, 'the Mormons must be treated as enemies and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for public peace.'"
Mob violence peaks with the massacre of a Mormon settlement, including killing a 10-year-old boy.
- [14:46] Dave: “On October 30th, a mob attacked a Mormon settlement. At least 17 Mormons were killed, including a 10-year-old boy who had his head blown off.”

2. Expulsion to Illinois and the Hardening of Mormon Identity (18:15–25:00)

Mormons forced to flee Missouri, dispossessed of property, and sold everything cheaply due to desperation.
This exile is interpreted by followers as a test of faith and divine prophecy.
- [19:39] Dave: “Most followers remain loyal as they saw this suffering as a test of their faith.”
Brigham Young and Heber Kimball take over day-to-day running of the faith as Joseph Smith is jailed.
Joseph and his brother escape jail and rejoin the movement in Quincy, Illinois.
Disease and deprivation — malaria sweeps through the community. Joseph claims miraculous healings.
Joseph “prophesies” a new mission: Brigham and other apostles are sent to England to recruit.

3. The Mission to England and International Growth (23:40–32:14)

Brigham leaves for England ten days after his wife gives birth; his absence and personal sacrifice are played up, and he barely mentions his ill or dying family.
- [22:46] Brigham (quoted): “If I had known that every one of them would have been in the grave when I returned, it would not have diverted me from my mission.”
Difficult passage and dire conditions in England, but the Mormons preach successfully—especially amongst disaffected Methodists.
Converts are mass-baptized; some whole congregations switch allegiance to Mormonism.
- [28:08] Dave (quoting Brigham): “Simple testimony is enough for them. They beg and plead for the Book of Mormon.”
Brigham’s letters home contrast his own relative comfort (shopping, sightseeing in London) with his family’s hardship.

4. Nauvoo: A New Zion, Polygamy Rises, and Splintering (32:25–54:28)

Nauvoo, Illinois, becomes the new Mormon capital, growing rapidly and wielding political clout.
Block-voting, land speculation, and new revelations: followers are asked to give up property for the church.
- [35:51] Dave: “He [Brigham] orders everyone to basically give their land over to the church because he f***ed up.”
Baptism for the dead—a new doctrine—emerges, and the practice of vicarious rituals escalates.
- [38:05] Dave: “Several thousand Nauvoo Mormons plunged into the muddy waters of the Mississippi in vicarious baptisms for their relatives who had died outside of the church.”
Polygamy becomes formalized: Joseph starts “sealing” himself to multiple women—a move justified by new “revelations” and expanded theological rationales. Gareth and Dave repeatedly lampoon the ever-shifting, self-serving nature of these doctrines.
- [54:28] Dave: “Joseph first raised the subject with trusted insiders, referring to polygamy as celestial marriage, eternal marriage, and the patriarchal order of marriage. And also spiritual waiflery, spiritual wifery.”
Brigham, initially hesitant, eventually embraces plural marriage and accumulates many wives, some already married to others. Secret marriages, rumors, and considerable manipulation are involved.
- [61:40] Gareth: “Rumors spread that he and Heber locked her [Martha] in a room for several days to convince her. By the way, that’s not what convincing means.”
The doctrine is selectively revealed; secrecy and factionalism grow.

5. Dissent, Martyrdom, and the Succession Crisis (74:39–83:07)

Tensions grow as Nauvoo, now rivaling Chicago in size, stirs fear and resentment from local non-Mormons.
Dissidents publish a scandal-sheet, the Nauvoo Expositor, exposing the “abominations and whoredoms.” Joseph has the press destroyed and is arrested (77:03).
Joseph and Hyrum Smith are killed by vigilantes while jailed (78:23).
Brigham Young, learning of Joseph’s death, moves to solidify his own leadership; a church conference and “miraculous” impressions of Brigham as Joseph cinch his ascendancy.
- [80:59] Dave: “So The Saints voted...for the 12 to lead the church and implicitly Brigham Young as a leader of the 12.”
- [81:21] Dave (quoting members): “Not only was it the voice of Joseph which was heard, but he was so full of—it seemed...it was the very person of Joseph which stood before them.”

6. Final Years in Nauvoo and Decision to Flee West (83:18–92:09)

Emma Smith opposes Brigham and polygamy.
Political infighting, Mormon paranoia, and the revocation of Nauvoo’s charter put the community in peril.
Anti-Mormon violence resumes; plans for an exodus to the west are accelerated. The Council of 50 investigates locations in what’s then Mexican territory.
Brigham Young orchestrates the flight, uses subterfuge to evade arrest, and finally orders the exodus after the temple burns down.
- [91:18] Dave: “...the temple’s roof caught on fire...and the whole building collapsed. So that seemed like a sign to them to move.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Creation and Collapse of Power Structures

[05:16] Gareth: “He’s surrounding himself with loyalists.”
[13:21] Dave: “If religions are going to fight, the smaller one’s gotta go. I don’t know what to say. I don’t care about religions. I just think you guys cause so many f***ing problems.”
[19:00] Gareth: “What about a religion where we’re always on the move?”
(mocking the endless relocations)

On Brigham’s Mission to England

[22:46] Brigham (quoted): “If I had known that every one of them would have been in the grave when I returned, it would not have diverted me from my mission.”
[28:08] Dave (quoting Brigham): “Simple testimony is enough for them. They beg and plead for the Book of Mormon.”
(mocking the readiness of English converts)

On Polygamy and Ever-Morphing Doctrine

[54:28] Dave: “Joseph first raised the subject with trusted insiders, referring to polygamy as celestial marriage, eternal marriage, and the patriarchal order of marriage. And also spiritual waiflery, spiritual wifery.”
[55:53] Gareth: “You swear to God this came from God?”
[56:26] Gareth: “So I stay married to her? ...You’re also married to her?... Feels like you just came up with [the Hot Prophet Cabin].”
[60:57] Dave (quoting Brigham): "I was filled with the Holy Ghost and said he was ready to go ahead."
[83:02] Dave (mocking religious rationale): “At first, I was like...I don't think God wants us to be married to more than one person but then I f***ed a young lady. And I was like, wow, God wants this.”

On Zions, Secrecy, and Grifts

[35:51] Dave: He orders everyone to basically give their land over to the church because he f***ed up, right?
[38:12] Dave: “...and sometimes for others. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin. I will be dunking for George Washington today.”

On Succession

[80:59] Dave: “The Saints voted ... for the 12 to lead the church and implicitly Brigham Young as a leader of the 12.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

Missouri Exile, Violence, and Vigilantes: 03:05–15:00
Expulsion and Hardening Identity: 18:15–25:00
Mission to England and International Growth: 23:40–32:14
Nauvoo, Polygamy, and Dissent: 32:25–54:28
Succession Crisis and Martyrdom: 74:39–83:07
Flight to the West, End of Nauvoo: 83:18–92:09

Wrap-up and Last Impressions

Both hosts marvel (and mock) that Mormonism became a modern faith given its “riffed” and improvised origins.
- [92:20] Gareth: “...it is shocking that Mormonism has lasted this long. I mean, it is extreme.”
The episode closes with both reiterating that it feels like “riffing” and improvisation, not prophetic insight, drove the evolution of doctrine and leadership succession.

Final Thoughts

For those who haven’t listened:
This episode covers the chaotic years that shaped Mormon doctrine and global reach, focusing on how a persecuted, itinerant sect—via charismatic, improvisational leadership and bold, evolving theologies—survived intense external hostility and internal schisms. Irreverent commentary highlights the self-serving, fabricated, and absurd elements of early Mormon history.

Memorable Palate:

"House of plates" as a running gag for the ever-evolving, convenient revelations of Joseph Smith.
A relentless, biting look at how religious “revelation” is often just a cover for expedient, sometimes predatory, human behavior.

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716 - Brigham Young - Part Two