717 - Brigham Young - Part Three

Summary

The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds

Episode 717 – Brigham Young, Part Three (January 20, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this third part of their series on Brigham Young, comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds continue their irreverent deep-dive into the foundational years of Mormonism under Young’s leadership and the westward migration of the Mormon community. The episode covers Young’s marriages, family policies, movement to the West, colonial ambitions, harsh theocratic rule, conflicts over polygamy and slavery, and the escalating violence towards Native Americans. As always, the hosts' comedic riffing and sharp skepticism drive the narrative, illustrating the absurdity and brutality behind the myth of Mormon “Zion.”

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Brigham Young and Polygamy

• Rapid-fire Marriages:
  • Married Augusta Adams, Eliza Snow, and Ellen Rockwood all on the same day (02:28).
  • In the 15 months following, he married 15 women, aged 66 to 16 (03:18–04:15).
  • Many marriages were for "stability," such as widows or his own in-laws, but some were questionably young by modern standards.
  • Quote:
    “He married a 66... all the way down to 16.” (04:12, Dave)
    “Personally, I’d rather be married to a 66-year-old than a 16-year-old.” (05:20, Dave)
• Purpose and Power:
  • The marriages solidified familial and church alliances, linking prominent Mormon families.
  • Gareth and Dave riff on the hypocrisy and absurdity of using ‘spiritual binding’ as a justification for polygamy.
  • Many wives did not live with Young; some remained with parents, children, or prior husbands, highlighting that “marriage” was often practical or political rather than personal (06:27).

2. The Mormon Westward Migration

• Preparations and Logistics:
  • Young orchestrated the migration by assigning labor, adopting families (spiritual adoption), and instituting a communal approach to hardship and resources (14:11).
  • The "Camp of Israel" plan failed due to lack of unity; followers were not enthusiastic about 20-mile marches on limited rations (18:22–19:01).
• Paranoia and Control:
  • Young’s growing paranoia led to calls for surveillance on followers by assigning camp captains to observe and report on behavior—a proto–Silicon Valley surveillance culture riffed by Gareth (19:16–19:54).
  • Dissenters or slackers were menaced with excommunication or being left behind to die (46:12).
• Strict Routine:
  • Instituted a grueling daily schedule; a horn sounded at 5 a.m., with daily prayers and work, even through hardship (41:55–42:43).

3. Life in Winter Quarters and Migration Aftermath

• Communal Living:
  • Polygamous wives lived in a shared "Log Row" cabin or, for some, in wagons outside (30:01–31:40).
  • Living conditions led to emotional trauma, loneliness, and, in some cases, death (31:46–32:02).
• Social Structure:
  • Children from polygamous unions were rumored to be "smarter" than monogamous children—a claim mocked by Gareth (28:01).

4. Colonizing the Salt Lake Valley

• Arrival and Settlement:
  • Brigham declared the Salt Lake Valley the "promised land" despite warnings, and rapidly organized distribution of land for loyal followers (48:02–48:43).
• Indigenous Displacement:
  • Initial encounters with the Shoshone and Ute nations: Brigham planned to colonize and convert them, seeing them as descendants of Lamanites, destined to be "grafted in" and eventually made "white and delightsome" (50:09, 76:47–77:58).
  • Later, policy shifted from uneasy peace (with offers to "buy" land and educate Native children) to open violence and calls for extermination after conflicts and accusations of theft (81:07–82:27).
  • Quote:
    “Let it be peace with them or extermination. Not really an answer.” (83:10, Dave)

5. Governance, Polygamy, and Theocracy

• Leadership Power Struggles:
  • Young maneuvered to consolidate power, attempting to reduce the number of apostles and comparing himself to a CEO/coach (51:41–52:28).
  • Orson Pratt was the only apostle to directly challenge Young’s authority, leading to a dramatic showdown (53:02–54:13).
  • Ultimately, Young became president of the church, with apostolic dissenters sidelined (54:33).
• Territorial Ambitions and U.S. Governance:
  • Mormons lobbied Congress to create the massive Deseret Territory, unfurling their own flag and briefly declaring independence; the federal government limited them to what is now Utah and some outlying areas (64:23–70:21).
• Combining Religious and Civil Authority:
  • Young governed Utah as an "Israelite judge," settling domestic disputes and imposing himself as patriarch (56:34–56:45).

6. Polygamy and Misogyny

• Theology as Justification:
  • Young defended polygamy as biblically sanctioned, claiming it protected against prostitution and benefited surplus women (74:13–75:36).
  • Shocking Quotes:
    • “A woman is the dirtiest creature, dirtier than a man. Men are honest. But if a woman won’t lie, she is a miracle.” (33:01–33:21, Brigham Young, cited by Dave)
    • “The influence of my women over me is no more than the buzzing of a fly’s wing in winter.” (33:45, Brigham Young)
• Wives’ Discontent:
  • Diaries describe emotional agony, feelings of abandonment while “married but completely alone” (62:16–62:39).
  • Numerous wives sought spiritual divorce or wished to be sealed to Jesus or Joseph Smith instead (63:08–63:48).
• Divorce/Defections:
  • At least seven wives severed ties to Young to remarry elsewhere (64:07).

7. Slavery, Race, and Hypocrisy

• Policy Spin:
  • Brigham Young hedged on slavery: told DC politicos it wasn't a Mormon priority while maintaining and legalizing slavery in Utah (68:52–70:21).
  • State acts avoided the term "slave," but functionally ensured legal servitude and discouraged black people from settling in Utah (89:33–90:07).
• Racist Doctrines:
  • Young stated black people would be “happy servants” and that “nearly freed the territory of the colored population” was a point of pride (88:19–90:07).
  • Native Americans were to be “bred out” through marriage to white Mormon men (77:25–77:58).

8. Escalating Conflict and Violence

• Violence Against Native Peoples:
  • Increasing brutality in governance of the territory, including massacres, beheading Native men for “medical research,” and forced assimilation of children (82:27–87:50).
  • Gareth and Dave lay bare the colonial mindset with macabre satire (“Let me tell you why we’re the chosen people: we’re the only ones doing torso pebbles” – 80:35).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Polygamy:
  “You don’t gotta marry everyone and say this is part of this fucking golden plated plan.” (07:16–07:21, Gareth)

• On the Power Structure:
  “Religious cults are just like other cults. … It’s always some flawed dude atop it, who’s paranoid, crazy, and wants everything.” (19:31, Gareth)

• On Surveillance:
  “He wanted camp captains to observe every person in camp and report on their behavior. … It’s actually what our Silicon Valley guys want.” (19:16, Dave)

• On Women in Mormonism:
  “The entire religion is based on women pretending to be happy at this point. So what do you want to say, she’s a liar? These women are liars.” (33:27, Gareth) “Another quote. The influence of my women over me is no more than the buzzing of a fly’s wing in winter.” (33:45, Dave, quoting Brigham Young)

• On Violence:
  “Dozens of Utes were killed over the next month as the Mormons claimed the valley. … They're just in the way.” (84:36, Dave)

• On Slavery:
  “You could have slaves but let’s be nice. The perfect central compromise, basically.” (89:28–89:44, Dave)

• On Hypocrisy:
  “The federal government was so appalled by the revelations of polygamy that no one noticed Utah had legalized slavery.” (89:47, Dave)

• On Systemic Racism:
  “Buy up the Lamanite children as fast as they could and educate them ... so that in not many generations, they would be white and delight some people.” (87:37, Dave)

• On Farcical Governance:
  “He ended up running his own independent state.... I also am going to wear a wizard beard and have a staff.” (56:34–56:53, Dave and Gareth)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Polygamy, Marrying Spree & Age Gaps – 02:28–05:26
• Family Alliances & Spiritual Adoption – 08:35–15:01
• Camp of Israel & Failed Exodus Plans – 16:30–19:01
• Strict Daily Routines, Migration Hardship – 41:55–43:09
• Salt Lake Valley Settlement & Indigenous Erasure – 47:01–51:46
• Mormon Theocracy & Power Consolidation – 51:41–54:33
• Brigham Young’s Misogyny and Wives’ Diaries – 62:16–64:07
• Polygamy Publicly Declared, U.S. Outrage – 73:57–75:36
• Slavery Legalized in Utah, Federal Ignorance – 89:28–90:07
• Violence Against Native Americans – 81:07–85:02

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Tone and Style

Irreverent, biting, and comedic, Dave and Gareth use a blend of historical detail, modern satire, and absurd analogy to take down the mythology of Brigham Young and early Mormon leadership. They expose the contradictions and violence beneath the official narrative, always emphasizing the human cost—especially to women and indigenous people—while punctuating their analysis with riffs, analogies, and dark jokes.

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Conclusion

Part three leaves the Mormon “Zion” increasingly embroiled in violence, hypocrisy, and moral contradictions: women’s misery behind polygamous walls, open warfare on indigenous nations, shifting lies about slavery, and a theocratic power grab riding on spiritual and temporal manipulation. The hosts' brutal honesty and humor make for an entertaining yet sobering episode, concluding with a promise of even greater conflict to come in part four as “things get a little heated with America.”

Transcript

[A]

The Dollop will be on tour in March 2026. We are going to be in Buffalo on March 22. Then on the 23rd, we'll be in Syracuse. Then on March 24, we'll be in Boston at the Wilbur. Then on the 25th, we'll be in Bridgeport. And 26, the Gramercy Theater in New York. And then on the 27th, we'll be in Albany. And then on the 28th, we'll be in Pittsburgh. And then on the 29th, we'll be in Philadelphia. And then on the 30th, we'll be in Washington, D.C. at the Lincoln. The. Why would you name a theater after Lincoln? Anyway, that's our March 2026 tour. Go to dolloppodcast.com tour for tickets. You're listening to the Dollop on the All Things Comedy Network. This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to a guy who was apparently a creep when he was young.

[B]

What does that mean? Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what topic is going to be about. What do you mean?

[A]

I've heard enough of your stories.

[B]

Creep is. What are you talking about?

[A]

You seem pretty creepy.

[B]

In what way?

[A]

Just all of the drugs and carrying on.

[B]

I did a lot of drugs. That's not creepy.

[A]

No, I think the way you did it was.

[B]

How did I do it creepy.

[A]

Well, you'd walk around without your pants on.

[B]

Okay, I was a what? That's how we did it.

[A]

You got to cut that.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

That's the way we did it. Now, don't you know that. Now that. Now that we ignore the Epstein files, you can do whatever. How funny is it how much Brett Ratner's in the Epstein files, too?

[A]

Of course he is.

[B]

I. Olivia Munn has that story about where, like, he was, like, the gross. Like, I mean, she. I believe it's her, but there's some terrible stuff. But one of them was, like. He was just, like, shirtless, eating shrimp, and it was, like, dribble. Like, shrimp juice was dribbling on his bare, fat chest.

[A]

Oh, God. Oh, it's just. Yeah. Next level. Awful Shit.

[B]

Of course Trump wants another Rush Hour. I didn't even make that fucking connection till now. Wow.

[A]

Wow. Ratner's trying to get back into Hollywood. Yeah. It's never gonna happen.

[B]

He wasn't good enough. No one good enough.

[A]

No. He was. No. What's his name?

[B]

Tarantino.

[A]

Roman Polanski. December 16, 1845. This is a big day. Brigham Young marries Augusta Adams, Eliza Snow and Ellen Rockwood on the same day, buddy. That is a day. Speaking of Ratner, that is a. I wonder if you do it at the three. What if you do it the same?

[B]

I do and I do.

[A]

Do you do it like that or do you hop from ceremony to ceremony?

[B]

I bet you do a ceremony hop.

[A]

I bet you do too, right?

[B]

Yeah, it makes it like barely special as opposed to not at.

[A]

And then it's like, who's first, who's last? Like it's a whole thing.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

I would go youngest. So start with the third.

[B]

Tell me my Miramax stuff ain't working here.

[A]

In January, he married Mary Woodward. So a month later. And then he married 15 women in 15 months.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Which I've done.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Look, when you're a lover, you're a lover.

[B]

How old is he right now?

[A]

He's. He's got to be. He's in his 50s at least. That.

[B]

That's the other thing. Not that not to excuse away any of the behavior, but when you see these old men marrying these young women at this clip, it's not great. And you're just like, what are you even going for?

[A]

Well, I mean, it's just sex. That's all they. That's all they're going at some.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

So He's. He's actually 40. He's 45.

[B]

Oh, so he's a kid. Okay.

[A]

He's a pup.

[B]

He's a baby. He's a little baby boy. That's crazy. The women in 15 months and they.

[A]

Were age 66 all the way down to 16.

[B]

He married a 60s.

[A]

Well, that was probably one he married. He's just like all to help you out. I'll take you on. So because you're out there living in the dirt.

[B]

Oh man.

[A]

What if? What if. And I could see this happening. I can see the right wing coming up with this solution to homelessness.

[B]

Oh, there we've got a crew of guys that'll take these old bitties. 16. And I'll be honest, 16 for the. What year is it? 1830.

[A]

1845.

[B]

1845. This is. It's a terrible. But I mean for what we were dealing with back then, 16 is like.

[A]

Well, it's 16. But I think that they had very hard living. So I would imagine they're. There are on some levels more mature. But they're still fucking girls.

[B]

Yeah, they're girls like.

[A]

Like they.

[B]

But they would like. But in this time they would be like, she's nine. Well, she have a lot in common my nine year old wife and I 66.

[A]

Personally, I'd rather be married to a 66 year old than a 16 year old. I would say fucking black.

[B]

I would too.

[A]

Like you could talk to him. He. He married a lot of widows.

[B]

Getting him honestly, either way, I think I'd be like, what are you talking about?

[A]

He married a lot of widows, so he did give a lot of stability.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Widows that include included two of us, his two first mothers in law.

[B]

His two.

[A]

Oh my God, I don't even know what's happening anymore. That's the last person on earth.

[B]

She's really. My mother's really been sad ever since dad passed away. Well, I guess I'll marry her. What? I'll marry your mom. I don't know, who gives a shit, but I'm gonna have to bang her.

[A]

He married his wife's widowed sister.

[B]

Yeah. Shelly, get over here, take her on. I'm marrying the Clark clan. I don't give a shit. Thomas, get over here. I'm marrying you too. I don't even give up. I'm out of fucks to give.

[A]

Who are you?

[B]

I'm the dog. Get him in here. I'm marrying the dog. Yeah, good boy. Leave the room.

[A]

He did not live with most of them.

[B]

How could he?

[A]

He lived with their.

[B]

He couldn't.

[A]

Many live with their parents, their other husbands or children from previous marriages. Okay, so now that now if you. I don't know, because a little religious aspects, it gets weird, but say it's not taking advantage of a young woman. Say it's a 30 year old woman and she's already married. And then at that point I'm just like, yeah, it's fucking polyamorous or whatever you want to call it. It's an open marriage, like, right? It's no different than if there's no taking advantage of a young person involved.

[B]

Then it's a different. But I also think the difference is this is what we're saying on the last one is that, look, dude, if you just want to fuck a ton of women. Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

You don't got to be married.

[B]

You don't got to marry everyone and say this is part of this fucking golden plated plan.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think he called it the golden plated plan.

[B]

If you join now, the golden plated plan, you're going to be able to take not nine, not 10. Hey, not even 15, 35 wives.

[A]

Did you say 35 wives, Gareth? You did. But here's the thing. I can get you two gold plates. Two gold plates. And that is 70 wives.

[B]

So we're talking two gold plates. 70 wives. But if you act now, we're gonna throw in a freehold sheet. Ho ho.

[A]

We're doing this. Get in on.

[B]

Perfect for you to bag through. It's very similar to the one that Joseph Smith used when he was translating the golden plates that were found in his yard. For sure.

[A]

Gareth. Some of those sheets. I put a hole in with my.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Did I the sale up cut.

[B]

Yeah. Don't do that part. Oh. When we get back.

[A]

But that's the truth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And we're back. I want to. I was kidding. Sales aren't really.

[B]

Let's do the food dehydrator.

[A]

So he definitely. A lot of them. Quote. Young and Kimball visit Ezra Chase, brother of Young's father in law, Isaac Chase, further cementing the bonds between their families. That's that now. Further cementing the bonds between their families.

[B]

But they are. They are.

[A]

They.

[B]

They like this is that. You know, they are sick. They are. They are sickly minded people.

[A]

Yeah. At this point I think they're really just all about fucking.

[B]

Yeah. Again. Which is fine. Just, you know, live like Hefner. That's okay.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But just don't be saying that you got to marry everyone.

[A]

But the Hefner shit was also super. Those girls were not down with a lot of what went on.

[B]

I completely disagree. I think they.

[A]

Oh, no. They've talked about it.

[B]

No, I know. I'm kidding.

[A]

Okay. Young.

[B]

When he married three 20 year olds, it was like.

[A]

I remember I was doing stand up one night and he was at this show at the Laugh Factory and he is like. He's got to be like 72 at that point and he's with like a 20, 19 year old girl and he's just this old man. He like puts his hand on her thigh as I'm standing there ready to go on stage and just like slides it up and I'm just like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Young sealed Ezra Chase to his wife for eternity. Then he and Kimble married their daughters, Diana and Charlotte Respect. Respectively. Four days later, Young and Kimball made a clandestine visit. Overnight visit to the Chase household to visit their new wives. Quote no one. No, this is Kimball in his diary. No one knew where we were gone Scroll. He scrawled. The way we know they a lot was that his wives had kids. See that.

[B]

That it's. But for their plight. It's actually smart because you're going out there, you're trying to hit the pavement and you're trying to, you know, convince people to join your new religion. There's no better way than to just indoctrinate at birth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that. That to me is the genius of Mormonism. Is that you? You just. You were like, look, we can either go to the mall and hand out pamphlets or I can just keep nutting in.

[A]

All these women. Jesus Christ. I wonder how many, how. I wonder what percentage of people living in Salt Lake City are related to Brigham Young.

[B]

Oh, it's got. He's like the Mormon Genghis Khan. I mean, it has to be a tremendous amount. It has to be.

[A]

It's gotta be.

[B]

But that when you watch the. Like I have watched these shows about, you know, sister wives or whatever, and it is. It's just nobody is. At least from what I can glean, nobody's thriving. Kids want a dad around more. The wives are pissed that he's just going to five households. Him all the time.

[A]

He's exhausted the, the, the jealousy and the competition just seems like it would be off the charts. But also.

[B]

It doesn't make sense.

[A]

But also, like, I think that I speak to the younger generations are especially figuring out that like, well, monogamy also, like, is really working that way.

[B]

I was just gonna sit like it is. But at least that is a. That feels like a closer pitch to a bond, a union. Whereas instead if you're just like, look, you just want to go.

[A]

You got to type.

[B]

You like fucking Mormon women. Go spread. You could still do the seed spreading. You just. The problem. The marriage part is the part that's like, see, it's biblical.

[A]

The marriage part is God.

[B]

God. God liked it.

[A]

But you know, with the religious part, you're also. Now you're pressuring people into it and it's. It's not. Yeah.

[B]

An equal thing of a 16 year old and being like, it's cool. I married your mom and your grandmama.

[A]

Emily Dow Partridge, who was the widow of Joseph Smith, had Brigham's son in 1845. Lucy Ann Decker and Harry Cook had babies in 45 and 46. There are many others. Some wives were enamored with him and believers in plural marriage. Many seemed coerced or had their personal, spiritual or moral concerns brushed away by churchmen. Letters and diaries reveal women struggling and not willing participants.

[B]

Yeah, that to me, exactly what we thought of. Sense.

[A]

Yeah. Spiritual binding wasn't just for marriage. This guarantees that you would spend eternity. Eternity with each other. And that also applied to parents and children and even friends.

[B]

Friends.

[A]

Yeah, we can you. Hey, let's do It. Let's do it. Let's get bonded.

[B]

Till death to us, you and I for eternity. We will forever podcasting. Oh, my God in heaven. Jesus Christ. Why are we still doing these ads?

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

All right, okay, listen. So if you are on earth, Squarespace is the best place to. To. Dave, can we get back to the story?

[A]

We've been up here 100 years.

[B]

All right, let's do Patreon. Oh, my God.

[A]

On January 25, 1846, Brigham adopted eight couples. Quote the spirit. Well, he can. If you adopt them, you can also then bind to them. The spirit of almighty God attended the administration and filled our hearts to overflowing. And many wept for joy that were adopted into my family.

[B]

Can you just have friends, you weirdos?

[A]

Yeah, it's all.

[B]

Does everything have to be this level of.

[A]

It's a level. It's right. It's. It's an Amway situation.

[B]

So when God hath recognized the dollop.

[A]

When you bring people into your family, I. I bet some of these dudes that he brought in were successful. So you're. You're increasing the value of the whole.

[B]

Here we go. Well, what is our point on earth for net value? Yeah, it's weird.

[A]

That's what I was told. He adopted. He adopted Robert and Hannah Pierce, the parents of his wives Margaret and Mary Pierce. He adopted their parents, so his parents in law became his kids, spiritually speaking.

[B]

Are you quiet? Doug. Doug. Doug, get out of here. Go to your little room.

[A]

Doug, I'm older than you.

[B]

Shut up, Doug. Mary, come. Come see about Doug. This is crazy. Doug is so lippy. If he does. Hey, Doug, if you don't want dinner, then you don't have to eat dinner. But I won't stand for as you sitting here complaining about dinner. I don't like your peas. You gotta go to your room, Doug. You go to your room, Doug. Go to your room, Doug. Now. Go to your room. Someone throw him in his room and shut him in there. Say Christ.

[A]

I don't like that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, you're quiet, Dougie. Your father is a real lunatic.

[A]

You're the worst at darkness.

[B]

Doug. Doug.

[A]

I'm gonna throw my teeth at you.

[B]

Doug, I will beat your. Doug, I will beat you with a belt. Your dad is out of line again.

[A]

Take off my diaper and then go to bed. Doug.

[B]

Doug, duck. Doug, look, look. What I can't have is you getting mad at dinner. How about this? I'll make you a peanut butter sandwich. We'll cut the crusts off, okay? And just go to Bed. Okay.

[A]

Crusts are too hard.

[B]

Come here, come here, come here.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Good little guy. Good little guy, huh? You're 74. Yeah. You're 74 years old.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hair smells pretty good.

[A]

What are we doing? Hey, I think I. Hey, get one of the girls in here.

[B]

I do have 80 wives. Right. Is that preliminary? Stinker. No, stinker. Butt.

[A]

Go to bed. In February of 1846, the Mormon refugees from Navu crossed the Mississippi. Brigham.

[B]

Mormon refugees? Yeah, We've come all the way from Ohio.

[A]

Brigham planned to send over 300 over the mountains to start planting crops and preparing for everybody else.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He called it the Camp of Israel. Larger groups of Mormons would camp at various spots between.

[B]

Michael Rappaport wants to live.

[A]

Larger groups of Mormons would camp at various spots between Illinois and the Rocky Mountains to help get people ready for the crossing. Brigham claimed Camp of Israel volunteers could march 20 miles a day on just one half pound of flour each.

[B]

Well, I think we'd rather more.

[A]

Well, I. You might be right. But let me. Can I say one word?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Flapjacks.

[B]

Okay. My Mormons can walk 20 miles on a cup of flour.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No water.

[A]

I mean, half a pound is.

[B]

But again, this is what.

[A]

I don't. But you're just talking about, like, bread, and they're just flower. And, like, it's not. You're not like, making a lot of.

[B]

Well, what are they. How are they ingesting half a pound of flour?

[A]

Well, they're cooking. Like, you. You just. I mean, basically you're mixing with, like, salt and sugar and water and baking something or cooking.

[B]

So you are. Okay, because in my. I guess a lot of times when we talk about it, I just picture someone, like, pounding dust.

[A]

No, I think they're. I think they're. You know, they. They travel.

[B]

White mouths.

[A]

When they stop, they cook at night, and then they have that for the next day.

[B]

Have some flour.

[A]

I think that's what it is. Or they cook in the morning, but it's all. But it's not.

[B]

Not great.

[A]

You can't. You can't cruise long journeys on just flour. You need protein. And. Although maybe.

[B]

And belief. A little bit of belief goes a long way.

[A]

But maybe they came across a gnome or whatever, and they ate them. For some reason, they were struggling to recruit participants. Brigham said a lack of unity and obedience had, quote, caused Joseph to lose his life. So his idea of like, hey, let's go, let's go. 20 miles a day on a half pound of flour. Everyone's like, yeah, I'm not gonna sign up for this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then he's like, you. This is why Joe died. Yeah.

[B]

Because you're.

[A]

Quote, caused Joseph to lose his life. And the same problem now threatened to, quote, bring me down to my grave. It doesn't work. The people don't fall for it. The camp of Israel never happens.

[B]

Nah.

[A]

Everyone's like, you know what? I'm with you on a lot of stuff. The whole me walking and dying in.

[B]

The desert knock, I love, man. But I admit, it would have been a great money saver if you'd fallen for it.

[A]

He starts becoming more paranoid and controlling. He wanted camp captains to observe every person in camp and report on their behavior. See, which is. It's actually what our. Our Silicon Valley guys want.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, this is Palantir. But it. It again, I mean, that is. That is part of the thing, is that. That religious cults are just like other cults. They think that they're just because you. It's always some flawed dude who's atop it, who's paranoid, crazy, and wants everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's already everybody, but he's even framed that as like, the Lord.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

But. But eventually it's just some lunatic who's like, everyone's mad at me. It's like, well, everyone's mad at you because you're coming in their wives so much.

[A]

Stop coming in their wives.

[B]

What are you doing? Like, what do you expect, Brigham?

[A]

We. I've said this to you so many times.

[B]

I'm surrounded by potential assassins.

[A]

Can you please stop coming in everyone's wife?

[B]

I. They're my wife's too.

[A]

I know, but it's just everyone's getting a little upset.

[B]

Well, that's God's plan. God wants me to plant my seed everywhere. That's possible.

[A]

I'm grossed out.

[B]

Why? It's just picture my balls like corn makers.

[A]

Now it's worse.

[B]

There we are. Did you say woman's lower half is soil?

[A]

Did you say corn makers?

[B]

Oh, we're coming, my Lord. We're planning the corn. Come on. No shooting the seeds like it's porn. Come on.

[A]

Here's my only problems right now.

[B]

You know what I need to do is I need to give people take home cups of my semen. That's right. Like doggy bags.

[A]

Line up. The cups are here.

[B]

Here we are, everybody. I call this machine gunning. Get ready.

[A]

I feel like we should get a new religion.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Nothing.

[B]

Sounds like someone said something about a new religion.

[A]

I said I'm hoping for some sort of Jonestown thing.

[B]

What's that, I wonder?

[A]

He threatened those who resisted his authority with, quote, a slap of revelation.

[B]

Weird again. Because isn't the. Isn't there one leader of your cult? Isn't it the Lord?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so then he's like, you doubt me?

[A]

That's not handling. No matter what he did, they moved slow and reached the border of what is now Nebraska in July.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They had to deal with a ton of mud, severe weather, hunger, and disease, but very few of them gave up. They could have gone closer to Mormon towns, but they believe they were retracing the sacred wanderings of the ancient Israelites. So they could. So they believe they truly. But also, like, they're just making it up.

[B]

Yeah, that's part of it. It's like back then, you're like, you.

[A]

Swear to God there's no, like, path or whatever.

[B]

They're just like, you know, Moses did a lot in Omaha.

[A]

Moses sat under this tree.

[B]

This is. Yeah, this might not be the bush that burned, but he was probably here.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, during this time, the U. S. Went to war with Mexico over part of Texas that the u. S. Spuriously claimed was theirs. Yeah, that's what we do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just like tech. Just like. Venezuela has our oil.

[B]

They do.

[A]

Brigham planned for the Mormons to get the eastern end of the rocky mountains by winter to the eastern end of the rocky mountains. So he's. That's. Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

But the Army. But Army Captain James Allen instead proposed that 100 Mormon men join the US army, and in return, the US government would help them settle in a new area. Most Mormons are suspicious.

[B]

Well, it's super weird that in God's plan, the army has to draft to get involved to get you your promised land. Like, it's so fudgy.

[A]

This is all part of what God had written down.

[B]

I talked to God and we need a platoon.

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

We're one brigade away from having our utopia.

[A]

And this is in the book. Was this on the plate?

[B]

As on the plates?

[A]

Oh, it was on the plates.

[B]

Did I tell you about the fifth plate?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

What's on there?

[B]

It's a bunch of stuff about this stuff. A bunch of this stuff that probably over the next six months to a year is going to seem a little strange. That'll probably be what's on the plate. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So just.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All part of God's plate plan.

[A]

So Mormons are suspicious. Brigham is like, yeah, this sounds great.

[B]

Of course, if you're at the top. Yeah. That's awesome. And he was like, your sons will have to die.

[A]

He's also singing as like, the US Is eventually going to expand to California, and that's just a lot of open space. So we could help them out and then they'll help us out and we'll get some land.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Quote, in an August letter, he reminded President Polk of Mormon support in the 1844 election and informed the president that, quote, should we locate within the territory of the U. S. As we anticipate, we would esteem a territorial government of our own.

[B]

That seems a bit strange too, for even a president to be like, what?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Secession is the goal.

[A]

Yeah. Brigham was also interested in the army because the soldiers would be paid.

[B]

You see, one thing God never counted on was a bank account. Need to get some money. We need money.

[A]

So that they're all poor. Ish. Remember, they've lost all the fucking land.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And everything else. So. So they created the Mormon Battalion, quote, the only military unit in American history recruited on the basis of religion.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Well, yeah. I mean, I don't know if that's true anymore.

[B]

Yeah, not anymore. Not since Heggie went in.

[A]

They signed up for a year and were given an advance uniform allowance of $42. And he took all that.

[B]

It's remarkable to hear. How long were we paying soldiers? Is that new?

[A]

No, I mean, what. No, we've been paying them for a.

[B]

Long time, but in. In this time, this was regular. To be paid as a. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. You got. You still get paid. That's been going on for centuries. Like, interesting. Definitely. But let's see. 18. 18, $42? Yeah. How much do you think it is? Guess that's a. That's actually a pretty, Pretty large amount.

[B]

I mean, I don't know, 10 grand?

[A]

But that's.

[B]

I mean, ice gets 50. 10?

[A]

Did you say ice gets 50?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It'S a. It's. That's a lot of money. It's almost $2,000. That can't be right.

[B]

Gotta go with that.

[A]

Maybe she converted that dude.

[B]

I saw this video the other day of the ICE agent getting his. The cops arresting him and them ripping off his mask and glasses. And I was like, yeah. And then someone's like, cool, AI And I was like, I really need to stop watching videos.

[A]

Yeah, they've ruined. They've ruined videos. They've totally ruined videos.

[B]

Videos got ruined.

[A]

I. I was. I. I watched this amazing video of these mountain goats just. And I was just like, ah, look at them.

[B]

Yep, it's back to DVDs. For me.

[A]

It is like time for. So they sign up for a year. That all goes to. All that money goes to the church. The only battle they fought in was in present day Arizona against a bunch of cattle. They didn't do anything.

[B]

We will kill the cattle. When. When he realized Brigham's marrying one of the cows.

[A]

When he realized they couldn't get to the mountains that year, they created a township known as winter quarters.

[B]

It's a lot of riffing. It's like Mormonism is jazzy.

[A]

Well, that's dramatic.

[B]

Just like a lot of. We are going to set up winter camps just like God wanted. Talk to him a minute ago. This is the new plan. It's called pivoting.

[A]

Well, winter quarters is out of their. Some gospel. It's like a name but still, it's still dumb. One of Brigham's wives, Emily, had a son in a tent surrounded by mud. Emily, quote, people would stop at our house to see a spiritual child.

[B]

You gotta. You got that new Jesus in this mud hut. Hello.

[A]

Visitors debated whether these blessed children possess the same intelligence as those conceived by monogamous parents.

[B]

Well, I mean, first and foremost, there's definitely some inbreeding coming. So I don't know.

[A]

They're saying they're smarter.

[B]

They're. Yeah, right. Yeah, but they're saying that the.

[A]

Their kids are smarter than monogamous marriage kids.

[B]

Well, we'll see if they leave the church. They're right.

[A]

Because if you think about how that works, if you're. You're putting your seed into a bunch of women wouldn't like the. You could make this argument if it was the other way. Like if seven dudes all fucked a lady, then maybe you could be like, well, yeah, it mixed and now they're smarter. But this way doesn't work at all.

[B]

Also, that session is not great.

[A]

What if you're like a cat?

[B]

All right, now my turn to see if my semen's smart.

[A]

I put my smart seat in you.

[B]

All right, let the race begin. Good, good, good. But also, can you imagine having like, like six women pregnant at the same time? Like these if the stress, the stress of one.

[A]

Awful.

[B]

They're all puking.

[A]

Just absolute pass. Another one of his wives had stayed in Nauvoo after giving birth in February. And a month later she was writing, he was writing her letters encouraging her to start the archer's journey with a newborn baby. Moving, she waits a year. But like, you can't take a newborn baby on this dude when you are.

[B]

Producing babies like apples on A tree and you're immune. He's like, I don't care. He's like, worst case scenario, whatever, you just eat it on the ride. Let's go, lady. I got a bunch of future babies waiting for you. Chop, chop.

[A]

So Brigham is now there bringing his full polygamous family together. Some wives moved into a shared home in this quote, comfortable little log house. Xena Huntington shared a room with Louisa Bean and Emmeline Free.

[B]

It's like training camp.

[A]

Forming a female family, as they called it.

[B]

Bouquet careful Mormon's. Like, that's where it stops.

[A]

Do you think he'd just, like, go into that room and hump one of them while the other two are just sitting there?

[B]

Probably, yeah.

[A]

Probably, right?

[B]

I mean, at this point, you are creating these again. It's like any cult where it's. Any dissent is. Can be, you know, framed as odd or against God's will. And so. So, yeah, it's. You know, you're making the safe choice is to just sit there while he's like. And you're like, okay.

[A]

You only have to sit there for.

[B]

Lift your legs up.

[A]

You only have to sit there for a minute anyway, because he's just doing it to, you know, he's not trying to satisfy anybody else.

[B]

Well, yeah, for sure. There's definitely no part where he's like, allow me to go down on you. He's probably like, that's disgusting. That's the baby hole. Now someone blow me.

[A]

The wise laid hands on each other to cure illnesses, mourn with mothers who lost children. Bless each other and speak in tongues. Eliza quote. This is truly a glorious time with the mothers and daughters in Zion.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

We're doing it.

[B]

If you block out the civilized society that seems to be forming around us, this journey is easy.

[A]

Some wives didn't get to be in the house and slept in a wagon.

[B]

There you are. Where my wagon winch is at? How's the house? Oh, pretty good.

[A]

Pretty good. It's pretty warm in there.

[B]

How's it good?

[A]

How's the. Not good enough wagon going?

[B]

All right, everyone off the bench. I'm gonna make it to Matilda.

[A]

They didn't feel the same sisterhood thing that was going on in the house. One died of consumption in 1846.

[B]

It's gross to pork in front of her.

[A]

A baby died at 7 months. Quote from teething and canker, which can't kill you, so probably an infection of some kind.

[B]

Oh, I thought that was him. Like, that baby faked it.

[A]

His marrying frenzy slowed down but didn't Stop. In March of 1847, he was sealed to sisters Mary and Lucy Bigelow.

[B]

Here we are. How crazy is this? Your lives are pretty much over. Do we have a wife count?

[A]

I will get one. I'm sure I saw one somewhere when I was doing this. Later that year, he married Sarah Malin on the same day that he sealed her father to a wife. So that's nice.

[B]

It's. This is horrifying.

[A]

This guy.

[B]

This is really horrible.

[A]

This guy probably traded his daughter to get another lady. That's what it sounds like.

[B]

It's just crazy.

[A]

Yeah. No, it's awful. So many wives made Brigham a woman expert because he knows the lady. He. He's got so many ladies. He knows how women work. Quote, a woman is the dirtiest creature.

[B]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[A]

I mean, they can be if he says the oil driller, but in a good way. A woman is the dirtiest creature. Dirtier than a man. Men are honest. But if a woman won't lie, she is a miracle. Well, what?

[B]

Your entire foundation of your religion is based on them pretending.

[A]

I can't believe there's misogyny involved in this.

[B]

I mean, the entire religion is based on women pretending to be happy at this point. So what do you want to say? She's a liar. These women are liars.

[A]

Another quote. The influence of my women over me is no more than the buzzing of a fly's wing in winter.

[B]

Horrible.

[A]

That.

[B]

That is horrible. They are merely baby receptors. Yes, to him.

[A]

Yes, that.

[B]

I mean, that is crazy.

[A]

Yes. He discouraged men from beating their wives. But advised. Quote. It is perfectly right that you enjoy a woman all you can to overflowing and tell her to keep all about her clean and neat.

[B]

Oh, wait, now. Wait a minute. Is that. Is he saying what I'm thinking he's saying?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Is he saying just.

[A]

Well, I think overflowing. He might be saying babies.

[B]

Yeah, I'm sort of.

[A]

I don't know about the clean and neat, though.

[B]

Well, I mean, he's basically just being like, let me bust. And then you clean it up.

[A]

I hope not.

[B]

That's what I felt. Read it again.

[A]

It is perfectly right that you enjoy a woman all you can to overflowing and tell her to keep all about her clean and neat.

[B]

He sounds like easy. I mean, that is some wild dude. There you are. Now that I finished, clean it up.

[A]

Have I ever told you my wife the easy thing?

[B]

No.

[A]

When we were watching the movie nwa. Yeah. Yeah. And. And of course, I, like, grew up on that.

[B]

Straight out of Compton.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I grew up on that music.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she's. We're watching. She goes, oh, my God, does he die?

[B]

I was just like, oh, my God.

[A]

The whitest woman ever. I married the widest woman in the world.

[B]

Does he die?

[A]

Good Lord, die.

[B]

I mean, I remember that. His solo album, I used to love, but when he got aids, I was like, I am not surprised. I mean, that whole album was crazy. Give me that nut. Oh my God, that song.

[A]

His main jobs at winter quarters were practical rather than spiritual. Get the grill mist up and running. Maintain peace. The local Native Americans especially.

[B]

Can you imagine? The Native Americans are like. Like this.

[A]

Is this what white people are like actual.

[B]

Is this guy doing?

[A]

How are you?

[B]

These are my 80 wives. These are my 190 children. We're starving.

[A]

They had to deal with regular disagreements over cattle theft. And most importantly, he had to figure out how to get 12,000 Mormons over the Rocky Mountains. 400 Mormons died in the winter of 46. 47 at the.

[B]

Just make more.

[A]

That's a lot.

[B]

That's a lot.

[A]

In January, he received the first revelation since Joseph died. Because he's been doing all his. He forgot about, you know, doing this.

[B]

Keep the Griffs going.

[A]

Yeah. It explained how to cross the mountains and compared the saints again to the ancient Israelites promising that God's arm is stretched out in the last days to save my people, Israel.

[B]

What?

[A]

It also mentioned that church members shouldn't question the directions of the twelve apostles as their decisions are sacred.

[B]

So. So he made a bunch of what we say. Come on, shut the up about it.

[A]

Because there's probably a lot of people.

[B]

Who are like, a lot of us are dying.

[A]

Yes. Hey, there's some problems out here.

[B]

Hey, I lost a lot of my wives.

[A]

In mid April, Brigham and about 150 pioneers set off 145 of those were men. Brigham's brother Lorenzo was allowed to bring his pregnant wife and her 18 year old daughter, who was also Brigham's wife. And she came along to help her mom.

[B]

I mean, he literally must not know who we married. Have we met? I'm your wife.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Is that my baby? Is that my baby?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Well, I have two other children with you.

[A]

Are you clean and neat?

[B]

Oh, my God. Come on. We got a dirty one, boys. Keep moving.

[A]

Heber was allowed a wife, and then they also brought three slaves. The dialup is brought to you by Squarespace, an all in one website platform that is designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Gareth, it doesn't matter if you're scaling up your business or just starting out or whatever you're doing. They give you. Squarespace gives you everything you need. You claim your domain, showcase your offerings, do your little videos like you do.

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[A]

Yeah, Because Squarespace makes it super easy. The templates are awesome. It's very easy to.

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[B]

Ah, sweet hymns.

[A]

So there's things hims can't help you out with, like folding a fitted sheet, which is my worst thing.

[B]

What's the strategy?

[A]

I don't know. I don't. Don't know. Don't do it. Throw it in.

[B]

You kind of just. You clump it, but. Yeah, just clump it.

[A]

But it can help you with your performance in the bed, if you know what I'm talking about. Gareth, you take control of ED with personalized.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

You could actually just hang the fitted sheet on what the HIMS gives you. That's right. Might be a solution.

[A]

Look, so ED sucks. It happens to a lot of people. And take care of it. Like, don't sit on it. Don't hang out and fester and do all just. You can take care of it now. It's not a thing that we let ruin our lives.

[B]

It's not like, yeah, the 80s, you didn't know what was happening.

[A]

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[B]

Why are you attacking tie dye shirts?

[A]

You get.

[B]

We're talking about love making, bro. Okay, that is, that is, that is tie dye time, baby.

[A]

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[B]

You imagine hanging in there for this?

[A]

I look, I'm out at any 5am Wake up thing.

[B]

It seems that kind of is breaking me too.

[A]

Yeah, I'm totally out. Like my whole life has been geared.

[B]

Because I guarantee you, he's like, come on, let's go. Yeah, shut up, shut up.

[A]

Let me sleep in. I walked all day.

[B]

Kick your head in. How about that?

[A]

How about.

[B]

Yeah, how about I kick your face and Bring them. Does that sound good? Excuse me.

[A]

I wonder how many people just, like.

[B]

Just, like, walked off or fake died. If you're dying by the clip of hundreds, you know what I mean? Just be like, I'm just gonna keep sleeping. Well, Lewis has passed.

[A]

He planned for the camp to travel until early morning, when pioneers would arrange their wagons in a circle for dinner's prayer and sleep. Sometimes people annoyed Brigham by having too much fun. He complained about, quote, levity, loud laughter, whooping and hollowing.

[B]

All right, so look, here's the thing. It seems like everybody's a little too cheery.

[A]

Well, people are out there having fun.

[B]

And I don't love it.

[A]

Well, they're just having a good time when they stop at night. So it's like a blowing off.

[B]

It's a bother.

[A]

Like they're throwing the ball.

[B]

Oh, there's a ball. And they're having to pop that or do whatever. No, the. But here's the thing. This whole journey is about making it to the promised land, okay? And that's a big part of it. Now on the way, I'm gonna be fucking and nutting and babies. You guys get a little bit of flour each time. This is all God stuff. Are you fucking questioning me?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. Because that's really the idea. When I'm hearing that giggling and that sort of stuff that, to me, it feels a little sinful. And I talked to God and the 12, the 12 big boys, and they're like, yeah, they don't love it. E either, so. Or they said it first. Then I'm interpreting their. Their will and their, you know, whatever the they want. So I'm gonna need you all to chill out. Stop it. EVAN LAUGHS Just go to bed.

[A]

We're just enjoying each other's.

[B]

Stop. That's crazy. Focus, would you, please? Gotta focus on the mission. We gotta get to Utopia, the promised land. My guy. Okay. Have I married your wife?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I won't marry her again in the ceremony tomorrow, and I will consummate it right prior.

[A]

Oh, Jesus, prior.

[B]

Yeah. All right.

[A]

Good talk. Brigham distrusted the slaves. Quote, those Negroes want to dance. Others join in with them, and they all become Negroes together.

[B]

Hi, I'm Brigham Young. Recently, some comments that I made when I was on my journey to the promised land had been revealed. And I just want to say, in retrospect, what I said was pretty messed up. The idea that because some people whose lives have been totally ruined by you and your racism are turning people into that color or that ethnicity, and that. That's Bad boy. I can't believe I said it. So won't you join me in porking your wife? Who now is my wife.

[A]

The next morning, Brigham called everyone together and had a go at them. Quote, I have let the brethren dance and fiddle and act the N word night after night.

[B]

I would. I would kill him. I would literally jump up and beat him right now.

[A]

I would rather see the dirtiest thing you can find on the earth than a pack of cards in your hands.

[B]

All right, that. Hey, buddy, we dealt with a lot of your shit. Now I am going to murder you.

[A]

Lay your wife down.

[B]

Shut up the up.

[A]

He said he didn't. He said anyone who, by the way.

[B]

This is our form of government right now.

[A]

Pretty much, yeah. He said anyone who didn't get their together would be left behind. Quote, I swear to you, he shall never see home again. I will leave them on the prairie. So after this, the group became.

[B]

I would 100% be like, I just found a new golden plate.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, it says that you're full of.

[A]

Says you're a dick.

[B]

I just translated it.

[A]

It. The group became still and sober after this with no more laughter and mucking around.

[B]

Man, that is wild.

[A]

Now, any joy that they had.

[B]

Aren't you taking your slow deaths a little too less seriously than you should?

[A]

In early June, they reached Fort Laramy, Wyoming, and started along the Oregon trail, trying to keep ahead of other groups and also traveling west. Thousands were heading for California. Many were Missourians who the Mormons hated. As they had murdered Joseph Smith. Brigham was convinced the Great Basin was their destiny. They met adventurers along the way. One was adamant that the Great Basin was a shithole and they should go to California.

[B]

No, nope. No. We're gonna go to what's known as the Great Basin. I don't think California is going to be the long term solution. We're gonna go to a big hole, big toilet place.

[A]

We're gonna go to the trash town, big salty toilet.

[B]

It.

[A]

Brigham refused to change course. Upon arriving, an elder wrote, quote, we gazed with wonder and admiration upon the vast, rich, fertile valley clothed with the heaviest garb of green vegetation. President Young expressed his full satisfaction in the appearance of the valley as the resting place for the Saints.

[B]

Chick, chick it out.

[A]

Yeah, do it here. All right.

[B]

Think we finally realize I'm not an idiot.

[A]

Brigham said, this is the place. The promised land.

[B]

We've made it.

[A]

They did it. Now this is the fourth third. Zion.

[B]

Doesn't matter. There's. There was always. If you talk to the apostles, he's supposed to go through about six to seven.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You go through a bunch of science before you. He immediately chose a spot for a new temple. The apostles created a system of land distribution in which obedient church members would get land.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

They would be able to use it as long as they were faithful to Brigham and the church elders.

[B]

Now, the only thing that God asks is that you don't ever around with me. Don't play games.

[A]

No, I wouldn't.

[B]

So then you're gonna be fine. The whole thing, you see, the whole thing is God really loves me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He just wants me to make sure that I'm okay. So don't play any game.

[A]

No, I'm not. I wasn't planning.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Do I have to do that lip thing too, or.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Where's your wife? I'd like her.

[A]

Oh, my God. This is like. Every time I give you something, I'd.

[B]

Like her to be mine, too. I need more wives. God said. God said, I gotta get more.

[A]

Oh, okay, go. I just.

[B]

You guys seem so happy.

[A]

We were.

[B]

Yeah. Now she's mine.

[A]

I wish you wouldn't do that.

[B]

Yeah, my. Your wife is mine now.

[A]

This doesn't help because you just do it, like, in, like, a nicer way for you.

[B]

And I get the biggest house and you get a little place. And now I put your wife in a wagon when I'm done banging her.

[A]

Oh, Jesus.

[B]

Isn't God weird? You.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And yet for me, so good. And for you, it's so bad. All because of some dish wear.

[A]

Okay. All right. I can't wait to get out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Something they did not plan for was that people were already living there.

[B]

That's hilarious. Here we are. We finally made it to the promised land. Enjoy yourselves. Let's build the temple. Who are they?

[A]

It is the Shoshone and the Utes.

[B]

Oh, well, they. Dave, those aren't people. Those are people.

[A]

The previous owners, quotation Mark Brigham, believed they would eventually colonize and convert them. They were the descendants, after all, of the Lamanites.

[B]

Now we. Like, like. We don't like. We do like.

[A]

They do like the lemon. While they're. They're not delightful white. Delightful, I think, was what it was.

[B]

Delicious chocolate, by the way.

[A]

But for now, they're just gonna, like, ignore them.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Let's say you handle that. The Salt Lake Valley was technically Mexican territory, but the. The Spanish never, like, fully colonized it because there were too many people living there. So the Mormons figured it was theirs to as their Zion. They're like, well, the Mexicans didn't get it, and the people who live here don't matter. And eventually the US Would come around on that. So Brigham envisioned an independent kingdom. And if any US Official ever tried to tell him what to do there, he would, quote, hang them on a gibbet as a warning to others. Sure. In late August, he headed back to Winter's quarters, and on the way, he met Mormons who were coming to Zion, and they were led by other apostles. And Brigham had an argument with these apostles about why they hadn't come in the. The big pioneer group that he was with. But this made Brigham start to think maybe having 12. 12 apostles, maybe that's too many apostles. A lot of apostles.

[B]

A lot.

[A]

They should probably just be, like, one guy.

[B]

That's a very little. That's a smaller amount.

[A]

Yeah, much. That's a lot easier to make decisions.

[B]

Maybe six.

[A]

Easier to make decisions.

[B]

Seven, and see how that goes.

[A]

Cut it down to just like.

[B]

Well, I mean, whoever the one is, we got to pick the right person. I know it's going to be a man, so I'm not going to fool myself, but we got to pick. If it's just one guy, that's been done, We've got to pick the right guy.

[A]

I did it.

[B]

We've got to pick. I don't even know how we do it. I mean, I think we maybe do it like Miss Universe. We have some talent. We have. You know, let's. Let's evaluate some answers to some. What did you say?

[A]

So I already figured this out. You guess that you have the hill back there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You just go up on top and go, me? Which I did. And that was.

[B]

Who'd you pick?

[A]

And that was God.

[B]

Who did you pick?

[A]

Me. I'm gonna be the guy.

[B]

Wait, but you're also. You're already the head of all of this.

[A]

Yeah, but, like, isn't the idea of.

[B]

Having an apostle that you could sort of. You want to be GM and coach?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's easier.

[B]

It seems like that's normally when a franchise starts to dip under a little.

[A]

Can we lock this one up?

[B]

For what? Me. What are you talking about? I'm just here. Some guy who's chatting to you.

[A]

Let's put him.

[B]

We were just having a fine conversation.

[A]

Let's stake his hands to the ground.

[B]

Well, at least I'm a stick my.

[A]

Hands to the ground.

[B]

What are you doing?

[A]

How many wives do you have?

[B]

I have two wives.

[A]

Okay, great, great. What thank you.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So In December of 1847, they had a meeting about how to run the church. Only one apostle, Orson Pratt, had the guts to tell Brigham his idea was bad.

[B]

All right, well, what do you know? You're not an apostle anymore.

[A]

Quote, arguing that the apostles had effectively governed the church and that Young possessed no divine authorization to alter the existing arrangement. He suggested Brigham's role was more like speaker of the House of Congress rather than president.

[B]

Well, I don't think you know that. I found another plate.

[A]

Is this like the 17th plate?

[B]

Yeah, there's another plate. And I think you got to go. Shut the fuck up, because I think this last plate was pretty straightforward. I looked at it, and I read it through the. The rock or whatever the fucking thing is and says, you need to shut up. And it's just gonna be me from now on. That's good.

[A]

Brigham responded. Quote, on Congress. Oh, when.

[B]

There'S a bumper sticker, when.

[A]

You undertake to dictate and dictate and counsel me, it insults me. Brigham interspersed his arguments with shouting as if channeling a spirit, which I. I've done. That's how I usually win arguments with the wife of pretending.

[B]

You've definitely done that. I've seen you do that.

[A]

He said he was invited in a dream and told this was the right path. Quote, I believe the good Lord will give me revelations as plain as he ever told.

[B]

I dream I was toast. What are you talking about?

[A]

The apostles unanimously appointed Brigham Young to be president.

[B]

It's funny that the apostles, who have no value anymore in the real world, are telling him what to do.

[A]

Well, there.

[B]

That is to be the head of the only apostle.

[A]

Yeah, well, now they're. Yeah, now they're done. They. They gave up their power. If you can imagine a government body giving up their power.

[B]

How did you sleep? I slept really good. But the apostles, I guess, want me to be in charge of everything.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Can we have word with the apostles? No. They were in my dreams.

[A]

Weeks later, the proposal was presented to the whole church membership. Brigham, quote, this is the best day I've seen in my life. This is a heavenly day. A day of Zion. And they agreed to the new appointment. Returning to Utah after the winter, he was looking forward to running his own independent state. In 1848, the settlement grew from 200 to 4, 000 in a year.

[B]

Can I ask you a question?

[A]

Go ahead.

[B]

How much do you think he believes all this?

[A]

Very little. Yeah, I truly. I truly think he's just.

[B]

But. But when he started, he believed Bit, I think so now he's just drunk with power.

[A]

I really think there's something to the fact that he was just crazy poor and saw this as like the ground floor of a thing that he could get into and find stability or more.

[B]

We're talking about the vice president of. Go ahead.

[A]

No. So it grows from 204,000 a year. The US had claimed Utah, from Mexico. US is like, so that's mine.

[B]

So these are all ours.

[A]

You know, this part goes up on the map. And then like, how little sticky. I get a picture.

[B]

I'm gonna take whatever I want.

[A]

Yeah, that stuff that is between us and California. I need that.

[B]

Here's the thing. You don't get it anymore.

[A]

Because interesting.

[B]

Americas.

[A]

It's ours.

[B]

I get to do it.

[A]

It's an exciting new era. Brigham, quote, governed the church like an Israelite judge or patriarch, giving his judgment in criminal cases, settling marital disputes, and regularly visiting new settlements.

[B]

I also am going to wear a wizard beard and have a staff. That sound good?

[A]

I shall have a parrot on my shoulder.

[B]

I'm going to walk around on stilts from now on, sort of give the vibe.

[A]

This hand will be made out of silver.

[B]

All right. I'm gonna wear hulk fists.

[A]

Hulk fists.

[B]

I'm gonna wear hulk fists and a wizard beard. And if anyone with me, I'm gonna bang your wife. I talk to God.

[A]

The 1849 winter was very tough. Each person got half a pound of flour a day. Some ended up eating flower bulbs and wolf meat. I hope that's those.

[B]

The.

[A]

The wolves dead and not actual taking the meat from wolves.

[B]

You give me a half pound of flour and wolf meat. That doesn't sound terrible.

[A]

What are you doing?

[B]

Well, I'm just saying it sounds like I'm talking.

[A]

No, but what if it's something the wolf killed and it's been there for a couple days.

[B]

I'm dying. Are you kidding me?

[A]

Do you know that. That ravens. Children befriend wolves?

[B]

We gotta stop that.

[A]

And then they like their friends for a long time. And the wolves play with the ravens.

[B]

We gotta put a stop to that.

[A]

I'm saying it could be the next thing.

[B]

We really have to put a stop to that.

[A]

Just. I think they should get their own country.

[B]

We've been so obsessed with stopping the whales. Yeah, we gotta lock in on that.

[A]

Yeah. Well, the whale thing is out of control.

[B]

The whale's been knocked. It's.

[A]

I saw an amazing video of a bunch of whales.

[B]

It was fake.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anytime I see anything good, it's fake.

[A]

Yes, Some hoped Brigham would give up and lead them to California. Rumors about gold were enticing some people. Brigham quote. To talk of going away from this valley for anything is like vinegar to my eyes. Gold will sink a man to hell.

[B]

Now bring me my pig. I know.

[A]

Here's the thing is he's just like. Like, it's just like all the women and just being told, dirt bag. He's like, not go.

[B]

This is. This is. If you're in. This is like when you're in government for 50 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're like, what are you talking about?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not through capitalism. Look how good I did move to California. But I'm thriving.

[A]

It's. Yeah, it's exactly what it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The Mormons were spreading around the area, building temples to stake their claim on the land, becoming self sufficient and trying to convert the Native Americans. So they.

[B]

We are very comfortable living on this land the way it is. We live in perfect harmony. We're good, we're good, we're good. But hold on. What if all that bullshit you're talking about was different? Because that old codger over there gets to pork your missus and you show us how to make all these things because right now we're just living on flour and water. What? Jesus Christ. First of all, you're gonna have to learn English. You shut up. Give us your wives. That old guy gonna in them make a lot of little pups and then they'll be raised in our cult. You stop yap yapping and give us the secret to crops. You seem pretty good at growing those.

[A]

No?

[B]

Yes. We'll be back tomorrow with the pitch. Boy, they are idiots.

[A]

They established about 100 colonies over 10 years. Brigham became stricter about morals. He complained of devils in the valley and said they should leave or else.

[B]

Who's he talking about?

[A]

He's. He's talking about the Native Americans, right? Yeah. He suggested some disruptive men should be decapitated. Quote, I want his head cut right off right before this people. And they say amen or take some course to stop such infernal doings.

[B]

It is a dormant gene in the. In the white man. Just all of a sudden you get to power and you're like, cut his head off in front of his friends. What? Yeah, for gold.

[A]

I love the argument that all the white supremacists make. It was just like, hey, the Indians were killing each other too. Well, yeah, but they were also living within harmony of the world. See, the. The white man came and to destroy the world instead of living with it.

[B]

So excuse me, you. If we let them do their version, you wouldn't have a Texas roadhouse in every mall outlet.

[A]

So we don't know if they actually did this. Brigham also has a large family to deal with. Most of his wives are in Utah now. He had 20 children, two grandchildren at this point. Point. He had built a really, really long cabin which he called Log Row. Long log cabin, sure. There were various family quarters in it. 10 to 12 of his wives lived in it with their kids at any one time. Awful. From 1854, he lived in his official residence, the mansion house or the white house, with his first wife, Marianne.

[B]

So did he. He held on to the first. She was like, yeah, she's still there. Yeah.

[A]

Some wives recorded feelings of trepidation, fear or sadness, having to live in a communal way.

[B]

What. What's the problem?

[A]

Xena wrote of the emotional roller coaster of being one of many wives eight months pregnant and with an ill son. She wrote, quote, the hours and painful loneliness that I saw by day and by night.

[B]

She. Are you thinking over there? It is horrible. I mean, absolute torture. Horrible.

[A]

Well, you're. You're married. Married, but completely alone. I mean, it's just like married alone.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

On another night, she and Brigham enjoyed, quote, a very agreeable conversation about Adam and Jesus.

[B]

I love how Eve's not. Eve's not a part of that. So that's why Adam was so great, and that's why Jesus loved him. Eve. God damn it. This woman couldn't go one night without ribs.

[A]

Not one night.

[B]

Unreal.

[A]

Augusta hated the situation. She kept asking Brigham to unseal them and seal her to someone else.

[B]

Now. Yes, mine.

[A]

Please let me.

[B]

Shut up. Quiet.

[A]

Unseal me.

[B]

Quiet.

[A]

Unseal me.

[B]

Quiet. We're gonna do a 69. But my mouth doesn't do it on you.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Come on. It's called the six, and we're gonna do a 69. But I don't touch you with my mouth. That's icky. You do mine.

[A]

Her first choice was Jesus, and two is 69.

[B]

But your legs go away from me.

[A]

Her first choice was Jesus. Another is being spiritually bonded to Jesus. So she'd be like a nun, like, married to Jesus. And second was Joseph. So then also the same thing. She wants to be. She wants to be spiritually bonded to dead guys instead of him.

[B]

Yeah, she's just very much like, please. It's this whole body part that's really upsetting me.

[A]

Augusta.

[B]

Quote.

[A]

I have never in my life felt so much like getting a Divorce, as I do now. Wow.

[B]

Wow. So they had divorce?

[A]

I guess so.

[B]

She's like, I've came up with it. I've come up with a term, new word.

[A]

She never did. At least seven of his wives severed their spiritual ties with him, usually to allow them to marry someone else. In late 1848, the church wanted to formalize their relationship with the United States, and they lobbied Congress to create a new territory named Deseret.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

A Book of Mormon word for honeybee. Sure, sure. I never knew what it meant until now, and now I've never heard of it. Oh, Deseret. Deseret. You'll see all over the place.

[B]

Yeah, that was like a lady desert.

[A]

The territory they wanted included most of present day Arizona, Nevada, and Utah, with parts of Oregon, California, Wyoming, and Colorado and New Mexico.

[B]

Well, those first three, they did not have good pickers. Literally right now, the Mormons could pitch, taking those three, and I'd be like, go, go.

[A]

Well, Utah's gorgeous.

[B]

Utah's gorgeous. But they already got that one.

[A]

It does have some farming land.

[B]

Utah's gorgeous.

[A]

In the South.

[B]

Gorgeous. Arizona. Take it, Nevada. You kidding me? Have it.

[A]

After sending this, they worried the US officials would try to exploit their land, enrich themselves at Mormon expense. So they. They kind of freaked out. And they quickly wrote a constitution and then faked a Constitutional convention, which they never had, and then created a flag, currency, and an army.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They really just really quick. They're like, fuck, what did we just do?

[B]

It's opening night. We haven't rehearsed. Where's that flag? It's just a sheet. That'll do. Cut a hole in it. That's the Mormon flag. That's us.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

That's the Mormon flag.

[A]

Greatest flag ever.

[B]

Spot above that. That's my bottom.

[A]

You want to use it?

[B]

That's my bottom.

[A]

Take the flag down.

[B]

It's gonna be a big night.

[A]

Okay, so they're freaking out. They do all this stuff. They have elections for this state of Deseret, and Brigham was somehow elected governor. I don't know.

[B]

I thank you all so much for choosing me. After we've counted all your votes except for the ones that weren't for me.

[A]

In July 1849, they celebrated their new independent nation unfurling a 64 foot long blue and white flag, firing off cannons and playing music. Brigham and the apostles entered, quote, dressed in white. The community's young man held a banner welcoming the lion in of the Lord. The young women's banner read, hail to our chieftain. Three days later, Deseret sent a delegate to Congress with their state hold petition.

[B]

It's so fucking stupid.

[A]

We made it. But what's the difference between doing that and just fucking making it up anyway? In Ohio, like, what? It's all made up anyway.

[B]

Who, What?

[A]

Any government you make up, you're making it up.

[B]

Yeah, but it's like the. I guess the difference would be that one is going to deal in. In some version of like, hey, you get a little zone for yourself. This guy is just like, I'm your king.

[A]

Which.

[B]

What?

[A]

Nothing. Brigham had started to really hate the US government, declaring everyone in DC to be corrupt. Quote, God Almighty will give the US a pill and that will puke them to death. And that is worse than a lobelia.

[B]

And health care will not cover the price of said pill.

[A]

The belly is a medical treatment that induces vomiting.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I am a prophet enough to prophesy the downfall of the government that has driven us out.

[B]

It's so like, for me to be like, I'm with the government. Get out of here.

[A]

It is so cocky to be like, I'm a prophet.

[B]

Oh, just like, just the craziest Penny Powers prophet. I'm no dear to them. Ratner.

[A]

Congress is divided on western expansion and the use of slaves. So shocking.

[B]

Who were the dissenters back then? I don't know. It seems kind of up. Kill him.

[A]

Kill him. Take him out. So the desert petition doesn't mention slavery and that allows them to play both sides of the slavery question. Because every state that expanded, they were fighting over if it's gonna be slaves that are a non slave state. So there were slaves in deseret between like 50 and 100 of them. So slavery reporter supporters were like, oh, they already have slaves, so they're gonna be into slavery. But Mormon lobbyists in D.C. were going around convincing the anti slavery side that it would never happen there.

[B]

And it was already happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Brigham's instructions were to remain very vague about the whole thing.

[B]

Yeah, but. But if he has them. So he's just lying. It's not being vague. It's just lying. Yeah.

[A]

Or like it's. It's a great little loophole because you can.

[B]

You.

[A]

This way you can pretend you're on both sides, but like, it's just so.

[B]

But it's really weird to be like slavery. But it's really weird to have slaves and be like, we don't really know.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know.

[B]

Like, but you have slaves.

[A]

Yeah, but.

[B]

Okay, you're pro slavery.

[A]

But they're. But they're like workers.

[B]

We call them volunteers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So.

[A]

And they're part. They're not part of our religion.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we don't know. And then you go to the slave people, you're like, oh, we love it. We love Sl. It's so good.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I couldn't imagine it.

[A]

It's like, what do we. What do we do without slaves?

[B]

I'll tell you what. I'm not a fan of his work. I'm basically God's buddy.

[A]

Yeah. No pay.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So. So they basically are saying they want to be a free state, but we don't really want to make it a law. That's kind of like their.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

A compromise is eventually reached. Quote, congress accepted California as a free state, abolished the slave trade in the nation's capital, and accepted New Mexico and Utah as territories with no restrictions on slavery. And Congress allotted the Utah territory much less land than they'd requested. So. So. So they didn't get all that shit. They just got.

[B]

It's also like, it. Doesn't God have a strong take on this? Like, if you're, like, talking about slavery.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. God was super into it.

[B]

Wouldn't he be like, no, it's super up. Or he'd be like, yeah, do it. It's. You're building, like, Zion. It's important. But instead, he's like, we're not sure. Like, he seemed pretty positive that he should be in charge.

[A]

But, I mean, I see both sides.

[B]

God is so torn.

[A]

They end up getting Utah, Nevada, bits of Wyoming, Colorado.

[B]

Okay, some winners.

[A]

President Milliard Millard Fillmore appointed Brigham Young as governor of the new territory of Utah.

[B]

It's great to work for you, Fillmore. That's what I've been doing with my wives.

[A]

We were hoping you wouldn't bring that up. Gotta be honest.

[B]

More babies. You gotta fill more. Anyway, they're filthy. You have a woman hose, as we.

[A]

Like to say in Utah. Women. Gross.

[B]

Girls, lift your dress up. I'm gonna clean ye.

[A]

A number of non Mormons were appointed as officials and judges to watch over Brigham. So they did a little bit of a.

[B]

That's weird to go back to your flock and be like, so they got these guys watching me.

[A]

Yeah. Brigham made it publicly known he would not acquiesce to government oversight at the church's annual July party. By the way, I love you guys.

[B]

July party, really good.

[A]

The best with the government officials.

[B]

That's where I try every dish. And a woman sticks to one with the government officials.

[A]

There Brigham gives a speech and declared that any American presidents that opposed the Mormons would end up in hell.

[B]

I mean, honestly, you got to be like, we probably got to tell the president what the fuck this guy's talking about.

[A]

This is a great.

[B]

This is, like, kind of weird.

[A]

One judge had read up on the Book of Mormon and was ready to engage with the church leaders and congregation, and he gave a speech praising their hospitality and quoted from Mormon scriptures, but then suggested that the Mormons weren't patriotic enough.

[B]

Sounds like it. Well, they're not, by the way. You gotta love the. The, like, government being like, would you pick your culture? Which stupid one will you pledge allegiance to?

[A]

So this pisses off the Mormons, even though what he said is totally true.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Brigham said he was, quote, either profoundly ignorant or corruptly wicked. And he went on to say that the Saints definitely shouldn't do anything that would lead to, quote, pulling of hair or cutting of throats. It's fair, sure. Other government officials were horrified at the suggestion that the Saints might try to kill the judge. Yeah, I mean, I get that. Yeah, I get that. So some of them now leave Utah and they took 20,000 government investment with them. And Brigham's just. He's holding to it, quote, so easy.

[B]

To hold to it when you're in charge and have everything.

[A]

Yeah, totally. Quote. Mormonism was a little too warm for their relish. I felt like kicking the poor curses arse out of the territory. So the Mormons are now losing favor with Americans. Americans are like, okay, what the fuck is this shit? They no longer seem like these poor, oppressed refugees. And then everyone starts hearing about the polygamy. And In August of 1852, the church publicly admitted to plural marriage.

[B]

I can't wait to find out what the United States thinks of this.

[A]

We. Yeah, we're doing it. Yeah, we love ladies. We love having one. Dude, a bunch of ladies. I got a log house full of ladies, say, and a wagon out back. Several wagons out back.

[B]

Just don't ask the women how they feel about it. And everyone loves it.

[A]

Don't talk to them in a conference. Brigham said, quote, there is not a constitution or law in any state in the union that forbids a man from having two wives if that man lays down as a principle of faith or creed. As for Congress, they might well abolish slavery in the south as plurality in Utah. So he's saying.

[B]

So he's saying, good luck to you.

[A]

It's. It's locked in. Laughable. It is locked in. He's right. It was locked in. They did make it illegal, but they just kept doing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They also argued that polygamy prevented prostitution and adultery. Gareth, hear me out. So if a lady isn't married, she gonna sell that? You know what I mean? If. If you don't. If you don't lock a lady down, she gonna put price on that. She's gonna just set like a farmer selling his harvest.

[B]

The goal is to make sure the woman never benefits in any way from any situation.

[A]

Also provided righteous husbands for polygamy. Provided righteous husbands for women who often outnumbered men and followed the examples of not only the biblical patri. Patriarchs, but Jesus and God.

[B]

In what way?

[A]

Jesus and God? You didn't know God married a bunch of ladies?

[B]

No, I didn't, actually.

[A]

Oh, God was all about. About the chicks.

[B]

Welcome to Rock of Love. I'm God.

[A]

The spreading of this doctor. Jesus wasn't even married at all.

[B]

No.

[A]

This is such a crazy.

[B]

No.

[A]

The spreading of this doctor did not help get any new.

[B]

But by the way, he was so focused on others. I think once he got through all that stuff with, like, the lepers and the sins and stuff, he was really looking to get down and get busy.

[A]

He was, without question.

[B]

I mean, imagine going on a date with Jesus back then. You really seem awesome. Oh, thank you.

[A]

Thanks a lot.

[B]

I met a guy.

[A]

The spreading of this doctor did not help get new recruits. And by the end of 1852, almost 20,000 Latter Day Saints occupied the great Salt Lake City and also sediments from San Bernardino, California, up to northern Utah. And Brigham called it Mormondom.

[B]

Jesus Christ, Mormon doom.

[A]

By the mid-1850s, there were a few black Mormons and converted Native Americans.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

God had told the Mormons to convert the Lamanites. Brigham quote, the savages are not yet grafted in the olive tree. They are now as a withered branch before the Lord.

[B]

Hey, I signed up, not you. You're one of the good ones.

[A]

I can hear you, dude.

[B]

All right, I'm just saying.

[A]

Stop calling me withered.

[B]

You're withered. By the way, is it your wife or daughter?

[A]

No. Mormon men were encouraged to marry Native American women to, quote, breed the Indian out.

[B]

I just wish they were alive today to be like, well, that didn't age great.

[A]

Could a Mormon marry a Native American man?

[B]

No.

[A]

Hell no. What the. I can't even believe.

[B]

Shut the up. Get out. That's disgusting.

[A]

Kill this. Kill this one.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

Brigham quote, it is against law for a white woman to take an Indian husband. The governing principle is the Husband. And by prayer they will bring forth white children. The white seat must go.

[B]

I need everybody to listen to me. The woman will experience no joy or pleasure. Stop trying that. Christ. She will stay in my log cut. That's it. I'm her. Come here.

[A]

We're married.

[B]

Get married. I'm Marionette. I'll marry you now.

[A]

Early in the settlement, Brigman. Brigman. Brigham discouraged Mormons from hurting the Utes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And other groups who stole livestock, arguing they wouldn't, could. They couldn't be held to the same moral standards as whites and needed to be forgiven. They don't know what they're doing.

[B]

They're not like us.

[A]

They don't see. They're very confused because we took all their land.

[B]

Now they're trying to survive. Totally crazy.

[A]

But in March 1849, he changed his mind and sent a group to track some Native Americans. And they killed every man in the group except a 16 year old boy. So that's how you.

[B]

It's awesome. Good for them.

[A]

No, they killed the Mormons. Killed them.

[B]

Yeah. It's good.

[A]

Well, I'm saying. I thought you were saying it's good the Native Americans killed the Mormons.

[B]

But no, no, that'd be horrible.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The good guys are winning.

[A]

I feel like we're not on the same bottom. I'm happy with the same. Native Americans got killed.

[B]

Yeah. Good.

[A]

And the Mormons lived.

[B]

They. Well, they weren't really signing up for God's plan at the clip that I needed them to. So I'm happy. These guys are chalking up victory after victory.

[A]

A planned new settlement. Fort Utah was in the middle of Ute territory. And the council figured they would be able to, quote, improve their morals to make fishers of them. And then the Saints can buy the fish for them for a trifle, which will preserve their good feelings.

[B]

I'm also probably gonna bang some of the fish.

[A]

Just. Yeah, just the fact that he's a king. Well, they're just like, how can we turn these people into our workers? Like, they're living on the land. What if we can.

[B]

They are now fishing machines.

[A]

They're not fishing for us.

[B]

They fish for us.

[A]

Instead of doing what they were doing before, which is just fishing.

[B]

And, you know, the problem with their plan is they were eating the fish. Fish. Not give me it.

[A]

I should get the fish and the.

[B]

Money and I'm gonna marry that guy's wife.

[A]

A few dozen settlers moved to Fort Utah and almost immediately were in conflict with the locals. Three settlers killed a Native American guy. Quote, after Shooting him, the settlers cut open his abdomen, filled it with rocks, and sunk the corpse in the Provo River.

[B]

Let me tell you why we're the chosen people. We're the only ones doing torso pebbles.

[A]

Cattle theft and destruction of Mormon crops continued. And the settlers wrote to Brigham for advice. This is why you shouldn't have been settling. I mean, it's not even settling. It's colonizing. They're colonizing the whole area. He initially repeated that the Indians were just stupid and should be treated with patience, but then changed his mind. Quote, I say go and kill them, Joseph.

[B]

Like fake consulting God anymore? Yeah, it. Yeah, do it. Wait.

[A]

Joseph prophesied many of the Lamanites will have to be slain. Many of them, by us. Joe said it.

[B]

Is that new? That. That's just new, yeah. Oh, you know, now that I'm hearkening back to a conversation that I just remembered I had with Joseph, he said, kill them all. He said, actually, we should kill them all. Took so long. And then at that point, I'd be like, well, you didn't remember that. Are you sure you're the chosen?

[A]

Well, I was. You know what I was doing? I was saying. I been saying for years, like, we need to convert them. And then I totally forgot that. He didn't say convert. He said kill.

[B]

Let me tell you about the 38th plate. Oh, yeah, it was a big one. Yeah. He was basically God. Basically buried a homegoods in Joseph's backyard.

[A]

God. So God buried. He buried a lot of stuff back there. So they're coming up all the time. But also, God was like, what about wives? Lots of them. And glory holes.

[B]

You know, the more that I think about it, the more I think that God's plan is really great for me. It's a good thing. A good thing.

[A]

He declared war against the Utes. Quote, we shall have no peace until the men are killed off.

[B]

Wow. He really. 180.

[A]

But would let the women and children live if they behave themselves. Take no hostile Indians as prisoners.

[B]

You know, it'd be great. What would be great would be to go back to this era and just this time machine back there and just give the Native Americans machine guns.

[A]

Yeah, that would be amazing.

[B]

Awesome. I mean, just to be like, yeah, okay.

[A]

On February 13, 11 native men were tricked into disarming the Mormons. Militiamen acting friendly. So they, like, were like, hey, we're here to be cool. And then. Then they killed all the 11 dudes. The militia wrote to Brigham to ask what to do with the 25 or so women and kids. And he replied, quote, let it be peace with them or extermination. Not really an answer.

[B]

Kind of hard to make peace with those people that have extermination on the forefront.

[A]

The murdered men had their heads cut off and sent to D.C. for medical research.

[B]

All right, I'm gonna say right now we are just, you know, remember that kid who used to pour hot water on ant hills?

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

Us as a. As an ethnicity.

[A]

I just.

[B]

Is there something. It is damaging that is so up.

[A]

What's the. What's the travel situation on that?

[B]

The heads.

[A]

Just think about how many months it took everyone to get here. Like, what. What's going on with the heads across the. Like, what are they. What shape are they in when they get there?

[B]

How much is it to overnight them?

[A]

Like, what are we doing?

[B]

Not good. Not good.

[A]

And also, what are they doing? What are they doing with the heads?

[B]

Here's what you do. If someone brings you 11 heads to study the brains of. To see what's wrong with these people, you cut that guy's head off and you studied that brain.

[A]

It's not great. I gotta.

[B]

No, I would say. I'd say we. We've really failed.

[A]

Dozens of youths were killed over the next month as the Mormons claimed the valley. By the mid-1850, there were eight new towns in the area. And Brigham said he had once believed the Native Americans could be saved. Quote. But my natural disposition and taste, it loathes the sight of those degrading ideas. Leads had, quote, fallen in every respect, inhabits custom, flesh, spirit, blood, desire. They're just in the way.

[B]

And they're. And they're like, this is.

[A]

They're in the way of profit. Yeah. A couple of months later, he wrote to several you chiefs, quote, we cannot live with bad Indians. We can live with good Indians and will do them good. And he signed the letter, Big Chief.

[B]

Oh, my God. I'll tell you what. No wonder he had so many kids, because this dude's balls are massive.

[A]

I dropped my hat.

[B]

Those are some big balls. Big Chief.

[A]

Big Chief.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Such a white guy thing to do.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

It's one of the most white guy things ever. Call me Big Chief, boys.

[B]

It sounds like. Oh, my God.

[A]

He met with the chiefs and offered to buy their land. Views politely declined.

[B]

But were we find value in the land itself? Not the money for the land.

[A]

Yeah, we want the land so we can dig that up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They politely declined, but were encouraged by the peaceful overtones in the meeting.

[B]

I got Bad news for you.

[A]

The Mormons sang hymns, and Brigham did a sermon in which he spoke in tongues. Now, that would throw me off.

[B]

All right, well, now that we're all buddies, I got a little something I want to say to y'.

[A]

All. What's that?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Why you guys look a little confused.

[A]

It's. We just. I. Maybe I don't understand the language.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this is English, and then this is kind of God.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

Good to be friends. Yes.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Let's get the out of here.

[A]

But soon, Brigham became annoyed at the naked Indians disrupting his plans. Quote, we would have taught them to plow and sow and reap and thresh, but they prefer idleness and theft.

[B]

What? Wow. What? Okay, it's capital. He's just.

[A]

Here's the thing. This is so capitalism. Run. I don't know if it's capitalism yet, but it's just. It's profit madness in. In which the other people are like, now we just live on it so we don't have pleasure.

[B]

Illegal. So that's what it is. What are you doing? Frolicking. Get the up. Build a barn, you idiots.

[A]

They had less work lives. That's what they were. And everyone's like, why you should be working all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, no, we did this thing, and it's great. Everything we have set up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Only the Mormons would make proper use of the fertile land in the valley. And he proposed the Indians should all be moved to a reservation. Slavers sold Native American children to the Mormons, threatening to kill the kids or sell them to other tribes if they didn't pay. And Mormons want to convert the kids, but in saving them, they encouraged more slavery, and more children were captured into old.

[B]

Pretty cool little system.

[A]

It's really good. Brigham said to, quote, buy up the Lamanite children as fast as they could and educate them and teach them the gospel so that in not many generations, they would be white and delight some people.

[B]

You know, the best way to get young people to listen to you is to kill their parents and their ways of living.

[A]

This. But this is what all the Indian schools were. And. And they did this in Canada and the US all over.

[B]

Yeah. Just.

[A]

It was just like, reindoc them up. Yeah. On slavy. Brigham contradicted himself, saying he wanted Utah to be, quote, free soil. But to. But to abolish slavery. It would be throat cutting to themselves and damnation to the blacks.

[B]

Well, there you go. Seems like a bias by the.

[A]

The argument of just like they're better being slaves than not slaves is crazy, but it's so prevalent. In 1852, he wrote to the Slate state legislature about his hopes that black people could live in Utah as happy servants to nice white employers rather than mean slave owners. See, that's good. We're nice. We're nice owners.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Have you heard of the better owner principle? But two weeks later he said, quote, I am a firm believer in slavery, and as much as I believe in.

[B]

The Bible, I love how he was like, you know what, man? No, no, no, no.

[A]

I thought about it.

[B]

That was a crazy thing I wrote.

[A]

I can't believe I did that. It was two weeks ago. In as much as I believe in the ordinance of God, I must believe in slavery. So slavery is good for whites and blacks is what he's saying. In February of 1852, the assembly passed an act in relation to service which wrote Brigham's vision into law. It didn't use the word slave or slavery, but ensured Utah was open to slavery.

[B]

Open.

[A]

It said slave owners should be nice to their slaves, but slavery was totes okay.

[B]

Slave owners should be nice to their slaves.

[A]

You could have slaves, but let's be nice. The perfect central compromise, basically.

[B]

Yeah. Without question. Unless you're one of the slaves.

[A]

The federal government was so appalled by the revelations of polygamy that no one noticed Utah had legalized slavery.

[B]

Yeah, well, I mean, at that point, what is going, by the way, we're doing slaves now.

[A]

Utah didn't have many slaves, but that. That wasn't the point. It discouraged black people from settling in Utah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That was the point. Breham praised it as having, quote, nearly freed the territory of the colored population, also enabling the people to control all who see proper to remain. In 1862, Congress abolished slavery in all territories. So Utah's little. Little. Utah's little slice grand dream of nice slavery was over. It is so sad. And that's the end of part three.

[B]

Ah, it's a tough ending.

[A]

Part the part four, things get. Things get a little heated with America.

[B]

Well, I'll eat it. I can't believe they survived. I can't believe they're still around. That's shocking.

[A]

It is real. But I think that they got so many into that area so fast.

[B]

No, they did it. It really. The polygamy really helped.

[A]

The polygamy helped.

[B]

Polygamy helped.

[A]

And there were just a lot of people.

[B]

They just. They made like sharks teeth. Yeah, there's always backup.

[A]

Yep. Good stuff. So this was written by Charlotte, George and the main source, John G. Turner, Brigham Young, pioneer, prophet Additional source Mr. Werner, Brigham Young and Stephen Harding, Letter to his family, 1862 on arriving in.

[B]

Salt Lake City City oh, hello there, doll heads. It's Gareth Reynolds. I want you to join the gear force and come and see me do stand up on the road. I will be in Spokane, Washington, February 4th. I will be in Bend, Oregon, February 5th, Portland, the 6th and the 7th. Then I will be in Bakersfield, California, February 27th for two shows and then. Oh, boy. April, here we go. April 19th, I'll be in Albuquerque, Tulsa on April 21st. Oklahoma City, April 22nd, Dallas, April 23rd. Gonna try to see a viral chiropractor that day, but that's neither here nor there. I'll be in Tyler, Texas, April 24th. I didn't even know that. I'll be in Houston April 25th for two shows. I'll be in Austin at Cap city on the 26th, and then the 28th, I will be rounding it out in San Antonio at LOL. Oh, my gosh. And I'll be in Tucson, Arizona. That's rounding it out. Go to GarethReynolds.com for tickets and information. Also prizes. We're giving away a bunch of trucks and stuff over there if you just log on. And legally that's not binding. But go to garethreynolds.com love you.