718 - Brigham Young - Part Four

Summary

The Dollop Episode 718 – Brigham Young, Part Four

Podcast: The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds
Date: January 27, 2026
Episode: 718 – Brigham Young, Part Four

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Overview

This episode concludes the epic, outrageous tale of Brigham Young, infamous Mormon leader and self-proclaimed prophet. Dave Anthony guides Gareth Reynolds through the latter half of Young’s life, exploring his iron-fisted rule over Utah, his polygamous reign, business schemes, and his role in one of America’s darkest massacres. The comedians bring their signature blend of historical rigor and irreverent commentary, making the reality of 19th-century Mormonism both horrifying and hilarious.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Beehive and the Lion: Building Brigham's Empire

• Symbolism of Bees:

  • The "Beehive House" (Brigham's residence) symbolized the Mormon values of “industry, cooperation, and building God's kingdom on earth.”
  • [04:10] A: "Why do Mormons like bees? ... They believe it symbolizes core values: industry, cooperation, and building God’s kingdom on earth."
  • [04:34] B: "Go Mormons. Lot of honeys."

• Polygamy, Power, and Marriage Control:

  • Brigham managed the marriage and divorce of all Mormons, often privileging his own authority and charging fees for divorce.
  • [06:58] A: "Most polygamous unions needed his consent. … If you want a wife, you first ask Brigham, then the parents, and next the female."
  • [07:25] B: "What's the point of asking her? What?"

The Business of Being Brigham

• Consecration and Church Wealth:

  • Saints signed deeds handing property to the Church/Brigham; Brigham pretended to lead by example, “consecrating” his own fortune to himself.
  • [10:22] A (reading): "Church members sign deeds assigning their property to the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints. Brigham Young, trustee in trust for the church."
  • [11:00] B: "He’s giving up the gold watches. Damn it."

• Indentured Servitude Disguised as Migration:

  • Mormons indebted themselves to the church to finance the trek; Brigham’s company charged for handcarts, resulting in suffering and death.
  • [13:02] A: "Mormons borrowed money from the church to come to Utah… which is called indentured servitude."
  • [15:44] A: "On one crossing of 600 people, 150 died from starvation because he’s telling them it’s easy..."

The Tyrant Rhetoric: Sex, Sin, and Power

• Projection and Sermons:

  • Brigham leveraged religious pressure to maintain power: demanded tithing, blamed congregants for lack of faith, especially if they resisted plural marriage.
  • [17:39] B: "He demanded repentance and rebaptism… quote, ranging from adultery to dishonesty to a failure to tithe."
  • [19:34] A: "He said some saints kept their ‘brains below their waistbands.’"
  • [19:54] A: "Some saints’ reluctance to engage in plural marriage was proof to Brigham of their lack of faith."

• Lowering the Age of Consent:

  • With a shortage of women due to polygamy, girls as young as 13 were married off.
  • [21:01] A: "The age at which girls could get married dropped… there is hardly a girl 14 years old in Utah but what is married…”
  • [21:48] A: "Brigham allowed a marriage to a 13 year old, but said to ‘preserve her intact until she is fully developed into womanhood.’ Well, that’s not creepy and weird. Thank you."

Against the US Government: Isolation, War, and the Mountain Meadows Massacre

• Defiance and Escalation:

  • Brigham Young uses martial law, blocks trade, and sends Mormon raiders to resist US intervention and prepare to burn Salt Lake City if needed.
  • [24:46] A: "So they planned to delay the troops as long as possible… Brigham’s plan B was to evacuate and burn Salt Lake City to the ground."

• Mountain Meadows Massacre:

  • In a climate of paranoia and war, Mormon settlers massacre 120 men, women, and children—blamed on Native Americans, but Brigham’s rhetoric is directly implicated.
  • [26:46] A: "They butchered the women and most of the children… 120 men, women, and children died.”
  • [27:33] A: "Although Brigham didn’t directly order the massacre, historians now draw a line from his rhetoric and dehumanization of non-Mormons to the violence at Mountain Meadows."
  • [44:43] B: (On faking compliance with the army) "You guys swear to God you’re not being Mormon."
  • [44:49] A: "I don’t even know those other ladies."

Brigham's Declining Years: Wealth, Wives, and Hypocrisy

• Relentless Accumulation:

  • Brigham continues collecting wives (up to 56) and wealth, mostly as Church “trustee.”
  • [45:44] A (quoting Brigham): "I could find more girls who would choose me for a husband than can any of the young men."
  • [46:08] A: "In 1859, he is worth $250,000, which is $10 million today, just like God intended."
  • [47:38] B: "He’s managing farms, mills, a cotton factory, and a lumber yard, just like God wanted me to."

• Labor Exploitation:

  • Workers paid little, not in cash but in goods or script; Brigham brags about his role as a benevolent “landlord."
  • [48:04] A: "He is to be paid in anything we have, except cash or store pay. Is promising some better clothing."

• Hypocrisy and Lasting Legacy:

  • Brigham rails against greed, money obsession, while amassing vast wealth and land, and enjoying absolute power.
  • [70:18] B: "Piece of s***. Some of you are just... big crazy for money. It's not all about money."
  • [70:36] A: "We’re damn fools. You will go to hell, lots of you, unless you repent. He’s so talking about himself."
  • [71:25] A: "He had married 56 wives and had 57 children."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [06:12] B: "Whoa. And then I realized you don't [have to talk to all your wives]."
• [07:52] A: "He was more likely to grant a divorce in cases of impotency or infertility. Can't get it up."
• [13:13] B: "Because God said to."
• [14:01] B: "The whole racket here is to profit off the Bible or the religious teachings as much as possible while moving as far away from anything that… Jesus."
• [14:33] A (quoting Brigham): "I will sell your wives and children as at auction."
• [23:24] A (On a federal letter): "We need to kill them all."
  [24:30] A (Brigham): "If I were thrown into the situation Joseph was, I would leave the people and go into the wilderness and let them do the best they could."
• [26:46] A: "They butchered the women and most of the children. They mercilessly shot, stabbed, and slashed the throats of immigrants who plead for their lives."
• [50:04] B: "Cool stuff."
• [51:58] B: "I'm very excited to have you in my new brain. How does it feel to get the catch of catches?"
• [55:26] A: "He’s living in a nice little headspace right now."
• [57:02] B: "Yeah, he's an all-hater."
• [62:06] B: "He’s still– married tons of young ladies."
• [63:25] B: "The key, I think the key to Mormonism and many religions is shut out reality. But if you hear this and you're like, yeah, I'm hanging in there with this one... How? What the [expletive]."

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Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:10-05:05| Symbols: "Beehive House" & "Lion House" – Why Mormons love bees | | 06:58-08:45| Brigham controls all marriages; polygamy rules; divorce fees | | 10:22 | Consecration: Property deeds to the Church/Brigham | | 13:02-16:26| Indentured servitude, migration deaths, and Brigham's deflections | | 19:34-20:23| Sermons on sin & projection—failure to engage in plural marriage | | 21:01-22:15| Girl "shortage" and lowering of marriage age | | 24:46-26:32| Martial law, planning to burn Salt Lake, escalating tension | | 26:46-27:33| Mountain Meadows massacre and Brigham’s culpability | | 45:44-48:06| Wealth, property, and exploiting workers | | 51:58 | Brigham’s “favorite wife” & ensuing jealousy | | 56:56-59:01| Railroad arrives, Brigham profits, Black/women’s suffrage in Utah | | 61:20-62:14| Arrests, legal wrangling, and Brigham’s declining health | | 65:13-66:44| Ann Eliza’s divorce suit and the legal crack in Mormon polygamy | | 67:46-68:19| Aftermath of the Mountain Meadows trial, further indictments | | 70:36-71:25| Brigham’s last days, death, and legacy |

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Tone and Style

The Dollop’s signature is a blend of fact and satire, with Dave as the straight (but exasperated) historian and Gareth riffing with outlandish, often explicit, punchlines. Both challenge the mythology of Brigham Young and Mormonism, regularly highlighting the hypocrisy, cruelty, and absurdity in Young’s actions and rhetoric.

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Conclusion & Legacy

Brigham Young dies in 1877 at age 76 after a long, unchecked reign as both ecclesiastical and temporal leader in Utah. Despite his callousness, hypocrisy, and a body count that includes the Mountain Meadows Massacre, he left an indelible mark: institutions, a university, and a church bearing his name. As Dave and Gareth conclude, the roots of Mormon power run deep, nourished by Young’s blend of charisma, control, and ruthlessness. The story, as always on The Dollop, is both a cautionary tale and a reminder: when one man is allowed unchecked power (especially “from God”), the results are predictably dire for everyone else.

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Key Sources Referenced:

• John Turner, Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet
• Mr. Warner, Brigham Young
• Stephen Hardy, Letter to His Family, 1862

For more: See The Dollop Podcast for tickets and future episodes.

Transcript

[A]

The Dollop will be on tour in March 2026. We are going to be in Buffalo on March 22. Then on the 23rd, we'll be in Syracuse. Then on March 24, we'll be in Boston at the Wilbur. Then on the 25th, we'll be in Bridgeport. And 26, the Gramercy Theater in New York. And then on the 27th, we'll be in Albany. And then on the 28th, we'll be in Pittsburgh. And then on the 29th, we'll be in Philadelphia. And then on the 30th, we'll be in Washington, D.C. at the Lincoln. The. Why would you name a theater after Lincoln? Anyway, that's our March 2026 tour. Go to dolloppodcast.com tour for tickets. You're listening to the Dollop. This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to a giant.

[B]

Boob and Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic is going to be about.

[A]

Is it true? Because.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And it's not true. I know what it's going to be about.

[A]

So you lied.

[B]

I did lie. I've lied.

[A]

How do you feel about that? And why is your hand there? So your legs are crossed. And your hand is through your crossed legs, cutie. For. I think for only me. It's upsetting because I think people looking straight at you, it's not as weird for me. Don't pat yourself there. No, I'm not liking anything that's going on.

[B]

You ever wonder what that would look like if I did that?

[A]

I'm wondering how punchy you are. Don't hit yourself there.

[B]

Get the baby pouch.

[A]

This is a family podcast.

[B]

Hear this. One, two, three. You're right. I should atone for the sin of lying about. I do know what the topic is gonna be about. It's about Brigham Young, and he's gonna probably get killed on this episode, and I'm gonna be real excited.

[A]

He doesn't get killed.

[B]

He's gonna die.

[A]

He's gonna die because it's the last episode, but he doesn't get killed.

[B]

I'm gonna pretend he gets killed.

[A]

Which is sad, because he should have gotten killed.

[B]

They always should.

[A]

The Mormons are great now. And look, name a religion that's not just completely covering up massive amounts of child abuse.

[B]

There's got to be one.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe the Quakers.

[B]

There's got to be one or two.

[A]

But like, the Baptists.

[B]

Yeah, but you're talking about, like, American religions.

[A]

Well, no. Even, like, Israel has A huge.

[B]

Yeah. Really? I thought they were chill. There's gotta be one.

[A]

I think that the whole. I gotta say, I was. I was okay with the Dalai Lama until he made out with that kid.

[B]

But then there's all this other stuff about the Dalai Lama, too, like, yeah.

[A]

It sounds good on paper, but then you're like, got weird. I read. I read too much.

[B]

I mean, the fact that you got to go out there and basically just, like, find a kid, that's the new one. That. That. That's a weird one.

[A]

Not good.

[B]

Like, when you're, like, your new leader. I'm not saying that there's a great system, but that is really weird to like, American Idol, someone's house, be like, your kid's it. That's weird. But I did. I used to love the Dalai Lama.

[A]

Yeah. Then you grow up a little bit.

[B]

Well, yeah. And you've also, like, by the way, you know, there's saying the quiet part out loud, and then there's tongue. Kissing a kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Begging for it. Let me give you a tongue.

[A]

Anyway. February 14, 1853, Valentine's. The Mormons broke ground on a new, large temple in Salt Lake City.

[B]

All right.

[A]

But construction would end up taking decades. Wow. They used the council house for ceremonies and rituals alongside government business. And in 1854, Brigham and Marianne moved into a new home. Beehive House.

[B]

Beehive House.

[A]

I don't. I guess I meant to look this up, but I don't know why.

[B]

He's the queen.

[A]

They're so obsessed with bees.

[B]

Well, I would think it would be. Maybe it depends on how much they know. But it's kind of like a workforce around one centralized leader, essentially.

[A]

I can't imagine that's it. It's got to be some religious thing.

[B]

Not because of waffles.

[A]

I bet if I put this in, nothing will come up. Why Mormons? Or some crazy.

[B]

Because you pollinate a bunch of different things.

[A]

Why do Mormons like bees? They believe it symbolizes core. Oh, you're right. They believe it symbolizes core values. Industry, cooperation, and building God's kingdom on earth. So you're exactly correct.

[B]

Go Mormons. A lot of honeys.

[A]

I generally thought it was so preposterous it couldn't be true, but there it is. Okay, well, that's even worse. I mean, essentially, they've incorporated capitalism into their religion, which is what Christians have done here. Anywho. So they name it Beehive House. Many of his wives moved next door in the Lion House, as you better be the lion.

[B]

When I come in because I'm looking to.

[A]

But don't. Don't. Male. Yeah. Male lines have a whole.

[B]

Like, they all.

[A]

All lines have a hole, but they have. They have. They have a whole bunch of ladies. Right. So it's. You have a. So that's what this is. Lion house.

[B]

By the way, though, if it's a male lion, I get it way more than bring them young.

[A]

True. He would. In the lionhouse, he would assemble the whole family for dinner each night. Women would send letters asking to be sealed to him, which he mostly ignored. Wow.

[B]

So really, he. He's kind of. He's hot.

[A]

He's a hot. Well, he's hot, but also, like, you're. Now you're being raised in this cult. So when you're born. Yeah. You're told, like, oh, the highest achievement could be to get with this guy. Yeah.

[B]

But he is Elvis.

[A]

He is ELVIS. Yeah. Between 1848 and 1852, he did not marry. Take a little time off. He's like, this is a lot.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

I just realized you have to talk to them all.

[B]

Whoa. And then I realized you don't.

[A]

But then he married five between 1852 and 1856, one of whom was his servant.

[B]

Oh, that's fun.

[A]

Yeah. Moving up.

[B]

That's fun.

[A]

Two wives died. Went after childbirth, but his household kept expanding with all the babies being born. In 1858, he had 47 kids.

[B]

Oh, holy. See? And you got to remember, but the rate of death back then was half.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, he probably had way more.

[A]

Yeah. These are like Bin Laden's siblings numbers. Brigham had authority over the marriage and divorce of all Mormons.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

That makes. Dude, that makes sense. What a crazy.

[B]

I mean, this. This is like. I'm not even trying. This is what Trump is going for. This. There's just. No. Nobody says that. You're just like, everything that comes your way. Like. Yeah. I'm also the general.

[A]

Most polygamous unions needed his consent. Mormon men were instructed, quote, if you want a wife, you first ask Brigham, then the parents, and next the female.

[B]

Oh, my. What's the point of asking her? What?

[A]

I don't know. What a crazy point.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Go check with the parents. Yeah. Okay. What about you? No, no.

[A]

What are you talk. If a man abused his wife, Bigham's advice was to try and live together in peace. And if that doesn't work, then he'd consider granting a divorce. Wow. It's already not in.

[B]

So live with the abuser.

[A]

It's already not there.

[B]

Now See if you can get it there.

[A]

He was more likely to grant a divorce in cases of impotency or infertility. Can't get it up. Who's dropping that? Because it doesn't sound like he can come. A lady can come forward to him. That. Right? It sounds like only dudes can.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So as a dude walking in and going, it ain't.

[B]

It's not working well, by the way, I would imagine that mostly women would be the ones who would want out of this because. Because are. Are all of the men polygamists?

[A]

No, I don't think so. I think that some of them can't. Aren't allowed to.

[B]

Right. Yeah. I would. I would say that if I wanted to get a divorce bad enough or.

[A]

Maybe because if she isn't having kids, then. Then she's like, well, look, nothing's. That's got to be him.

[B]

Yeah. Well, no, that. Yeah. Or I would be like, she's barren.

[A]

Yeah. Because having kids.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Having kids is the point of marriage and what God wants. So if your partner can't do it, then you cut him loose.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He preached against divorce. It was possible. If you can convince him of your case for a divorce. He charged $10.

[B]

What a fucking little shit. What an absolute disgraceful little prick and all. He's got everything. He has it all. There's literally nothing he can't do in his little cult now. And then, on top of that, he's like, yay, 10 bucks.

[A]

And that's like thousands and 10 bucks.

[B]

Because God said to.

[A]

I'm gonna go ahead and put it right there in the old palm. Brigham and the church butted heads with U. S. Officials sent to watch over them. In 1856, the two major parties started to fall apart, and out of the dust grew the republican party. That, by the way, that doesn't end well. This new political.

[B]

Feels like it doesn't end at all.

[A]

This new political force linked slavery and polygamy as the, quote, twin relics of barbarism.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They were coming for Utah, basically. Now, southern democrats didn't like it, but they also wanted to be associated with mormons.

[B]

They did?

[A]

Yes. Well, they're the slave guys, right? The church no longer had any allies in congress.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

By the mid-1850s, Brigham revived the practice of consecration.

[B]

What was that one?

[A]

It's similar to tithing where saints would hand over property and valuables and the church would then look after their families.

[B]

So he basically wants the members to give up their. And then he's like, now we're. Now we Got you.

[A]

All right, now I'll take you.

[B]

Now that you don't have anything, you're good to go.

[A]

So get in one of the wagons out back there you are. Quote, church members sign deeds assigning their property to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Brigham Young, trustee in trust for the church.

[B]

Man, that also cost $10. No, it is the scammiest scam. It is Scientology.

[A]

And it's amazing that he didn't even start it and another guy did.

[B]

Yeah, but he really got going.

[A]

Yeah, he really did. He consecrated 200,000 of his own property, including his homes, farmland, and five gold watches. But he's giving it to himself, so it doesn't matter. He's like, look, I'm doing it.

[B]

Five gold.

[A]

I'm giving up the gold watches.

[B]

Damn it. You know what I like. It really does make you wish that there was the reckoning, that there was that, like, there was a God and that God came down and that he was just like, hey, no, no. I've been waiting to give you these watches.

[A]

What the fuck are you talking about?

[B]

Here's all your watches.

[A]

You are so off the path.

[B]

Okay, well, correct me, Lord. Oh, boy.

[A]

First of all, lose the watches. You don't need any. Yes, the wives thing is nuts.

[B]

Well, that I'm gonna probably push back on a little. You were very clear when you came to me in one of my visions.

[A]

What's with the bees shit?

[B]

Well, I've always had an affinity for bees. I mean, everybody serves the leader. You know, you get to go out there and stick your jimmy and as many.

[A]

Okay, that's very problematic.

[B]

Called pollinating.

[A]

You know what? I'm just going to destroy the earth.

[B]

No, wait. I'll do it in the hole. I'll do it in the back hole.

[A]

I'll do.

[B]

But what do you want?

[A]

First of all, I'm the Lord. I call it the pornhole.

[B]

It'd be great if he came back and he was just like, I want all the wives. What? Yes, and give me watches, too. Sounds pretty kick ass.

[A]

Pretty sweet. Okay. But the plan was for the church to build up this massive property portfolio, which would make it hard for the government to control them. In 1856, Brigham created a company called the Brigham Young Express and Carrying Company.

[B]

Lolita.

[A]

The xy. It was a transport and freight service.

[B]

Okay. We're gonna move all of the out of here. And other places.

[A]

The. They loaned migrants handcarts to pull their belongings over the Rocky Mountains as they were migrating to Salt Lake City.

[B]

Who are the Migrants.

[A]

Mormons.

[B]

So he's charging Mormons to move to Zion.

[A]

Gotta make money.

[B]

God damn it, dude.

[A]

So Mormons borrowed money from the church to come to Utah, and then when they got there, they're expected to work and pay off their debt, which is called indentured servitude. Yep. But.

[B]

Okie dokie.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

What a. Yeah, he's really. He's been cooking for too long at this point. This is like, truly. This is when you're like, all right, we're done. We're cutting his throat. We got to kill him.

[A]

Brigham was also very wary of charity.

[B]

Quote as the benefactor. I mean, that is shocking.

[A]

Because if you give to charity, you're not giving to the church.

[B]

Yeah, he is a charity quote.

[A]

No man or woman in Utah is deserving of food or clothing unless they work for it. Oh, my God. It's.

[B]

Buddy boy. Look, I know you wrote a sequel to the Bible, but you forgot the first version. God damn, man.

[A]

Insane.

[B]

The. The. The way.

[A]

The.

[B]

The whole. The whole racket here is to profit off the Bible or the religious teachings as much as possible while moving as far away from anything that. Jesus. About Jesus in these books.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, the whole thing was. He was just like, oh, man, we got to help everyone. He's like, dad, don't help him. They gotta stay. And I get to them, all right.

[A]

He hassled people about repaying their church debts. Quote.

[B]

Come on, come on, come on, let's go, let's go.

[A]

Quote. I calculate to put the screws on to the men, sell their property, and if you can't pay the debt, I will sell your wives and children as at auction. Oh, my.

[B]

Are you me? This dude needs to be curb stomped so hard. I mean, he's just one.

[A]

That's the thing.

[B]

It's just one guy. I know. Like, just. It just takes one day for one dude to be like, I'm just literally gonna put a sword through him.

[A]

But once you have the Amway thing in place, right, it's all filtering up, so all these top guys are rolling.

[B]

He's the top. He's the top.

[A]

He's the top guy.

[B]

He's still.

[A]

But everyone goes along with it because.

[B]

I know. But you just need one guy to be like, I'm this dude. I just lugged all my over the Rocky goddamn mountains, and now I got to work my ass off to pay him back.

[A]

Ah. So thousands of Mormons moved to Salt Lake City on this credit scheme, including many from England. And shitloads died on the journey on one crossing of 600 people, 150 died from starvation because he's telling them it's easy to do and then they're getting on the journey.

[B]

But you also got faith in the gas tank. You're also like the Lord. Yeah, he's chosen me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Some church members watched 150 people die. Yeah, that was crazy.

[A]

In a good way.

[B]

That'll be $10.

[A]

Some church members thought Brigham had some responsibility because bringing people was his plan and he was pushing this handcart method. He said it wasn't his fault and actually it wasn't that bad. Quote. Few comparatively have suffered severely. Though some had their feet and hands more or less frosted. The mortality has been much less than a tens well fitted animal trains traveling in good season.

[B]

So he's basically like, it's cool, he's making money. Yeah, he just tons too, right?

[A]

Like people are literally dying and he's just like, yeah, it's cat, I'm rolling in it. This is, yeah, this is like disgusting. Next level. Yeah, just.

[B]

And that's coming from America.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And this is next level.

[A]

He blamed his subordinates who were organizing the tricks. In 1860 he closed the company and stopped promoting the handcuffs. Yeah, it got, it got too much.

[B]

Till he's like investing in crypto.

[A]

I mean that went on for four years. It got like how many people died and it got too much. He realized like this is going to blow back. Yeah, this is really going to blow back. Let's shut her down. So in 1860 there's now 40,000 Mormons in Utah. It was 12,000 ten years before.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

The Native Americans are like during.

[B]

This growth, how many kids can be named Lance?

[A]

During this growth, Brigham worried that some saints weren't committed enough and were being too sinful.

[B]

Which one would that be?

[A]

You. He demanded repentance and re baptism. He gave a sermon about all the sins, quote, ranging from adultery to dishonesty to a failure to tiff come. You guys gotta give up. Okay. I don't know how at times I gotta say this. I know a lot of you guys, you spent a lot of money to get here and yo me moneybase saw.

[B]

A lot of people die.

[A]

You gotta, you gotta give up the cash. We gotta have. My pockets aren't full right now, you know.

[B]

Why do you need cash?

[A]

My po. Because I talk to God.

[B]

Are you giving him the cash?

[A]

He takes a cut.

[B]

Do you have five watches on?

[A]

Yeah, and one of my ankles. Six now. But look, I don't own them. The church owns them.

[B]

Then give them back to us.

[A]

They were never yours to begin with. I had them made specially in New York and shipped out.

[B]

Just seems really awesome for you.

[A]

It's pretty good. But here's the thing. The better I'm living, the better you're doing. You know what I mean?

[B]

Don't agree.

[A]

Speaking of doing, who's that?

[B]

No, it's Ophelia, but leave her alone.

[A]

Hey, Ophelia.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

Would you like some stability?

[B]

We're good. Dude, please.

[A]

Off with some stability.

[B]

I feel like if I say no, you're gonna make me anyway.

[A]

You ever seen a wagon rocking from the inside?

[B]

Yeah, we took a wagon once.

[A]

Yeah. Let's get, let's get that thing rocking.

[B]

No, we're good. Sir, please. That we'll do everything you say. Sorry about that.

[A]

You know what you should do? What's your name? Bob. Bob.

[B]

No.

[A]

Bob, why don't you head to one of the settlements? I'm gonna have Olivia stay here.

[B]

But we're married and I'm gonna settle. Just give him $10. Our lives are over. Cool.

[A]

He said, he said some of the saints kept their quote brains below their waistbands. Dude, that is buddy boy. Dude.

[B]

I would like for some of you to join me in protection projection temple. I will explain what I'm doing and blame you for all of it.

[A]

This is the projection sermon.

[B]

Here we are.

[A]

Some saints reluctance to engage in plural marriage was proof to Brigham of their lack of faith. Quote, if my wife had borne me all the children that she would ever bear. Celestial celestial law would teach me to take young women that would have children.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Dude, I hate Also they're more supple and they're young.

[B]

The nuts you bust is bigger.

[A]

They're young. Perk titties. Right?

[B]

By the way, I really have been a lot. I've invented aids. Isn't that crazy?

[A]

Mormon men did as commanded. But all the men trying to marry multiple women in 1856-57 led to a lack of available ladies. Wow.

[B]

You have. They've created work your way through all.

[A]

Of them lady shortage by marrying them.

[B]

I, I, I'm genuinely scared of what this is going to turn into.

[A]

So the age at which girls could get married dropped two. Apostle Wilford Woodruff quote, nearly all are trying to get wives until there is hardly a girl 14 years old in Utah. But what is married or just going to be the legal age? Marriage in the u. S. Was 12.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

But it was rare for such girls to be married.

[B]

I mean still only in rare circumstances can you marry a 12 year old. It's got to be an emergency, like she's super hot or whatever.

[A]

Or if you see them, you see whatever you want to do, lay eyes on one.

[B]

Here's my, my wife. She's into making friendship bracelets.

[A]

Brigham allowed a marriage to a 13 year old, but said to quote, preserve her intact until she is fully developed into womanhood. Well, that's not creepy and weird. Thank you.

[B]

Oh my God. I talked to God and he doesn't want me to hers till he's done with his work.

[A]

Hello. He did refuse to marry a 73 year old man to three girls who are aged 12 to 13.

[B]

That guy's crazy.

[A]

Called morals. Hello.

[B]

These are my wives.

[A]

They weren't a young ones.

[B]

I'm ready.

[A]

Oh God, look at them. In 1857, Democratic President Buchanan was elected. His new Secretary of the Interior was inundated with letters from officials who had been to Utah, tried to implode, impose laws and then fled the state. One read, quote, it is impossible for us to enforce the laws in this territory. Every man here holds his life at the will of Brigham Young. Non Mormons who question church authority were, quote, murdered, robbed, castrated and imprisoned.

[B]

They're like the original swifties that they threw in.

[A]

The castrated one there that I don't like.

[B]

Don't worry about it.

[A]

I don't know why we're putting that word in there. Robbed, imprisoned, sure, murdered. I get why.

[B]

What?

[A]

Don't cut a guy's balls off.

[B]

Take the. Yes, yes, steal the monkey's peach.

[A]

He said the military should be sent in. The guy who wrote the letter, he's like, we need to invade you to.

[B]

There's no other way around.

[A]

We need to kill them all.

[B]

Literally.

[A]

Some Dem supported this quote, I believe that we can supersede the Negro mania over Kansas with the almost universal excitements of an anti Mormon crusade for the love of God. So here's what he's saying. He's saying they're fighting over slavery in Kansas, right? It's getting really heated there. It's bloody Kansas. So if they start a war with the polygamist Mormons, then it will be a bigger deal than the slavery stuff.

[B]

It is such a good country. I mean, listen to that. We could kill all the Mormons. If we just do it now and then we could get back to slavery.

[A]

In May, the president ordered 2500 troops to march on Utah and replace Brigham as governor.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

Unlike Joseph, Brigham refused to sacrifice himself. Quote, I will try to take care of number One were I thrown into the situation Joseph was, I would leave the people and go into the wilderness and let them do the best they could.

[B]

Wow. I mean, just admitting it. He's supposed to do that.

[A]

That's amazing. He's like, look, if gets even be.

[B]

Like, he can't even be a fake hero.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No.

[B]

If they come, I will go to the woods. Good luck to you all. God bless you.

[A]

On your own. Wow. But Joseph did that. When they did get attacked. Remember, he crossed the river.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He was a real little baby.

[A]

So they planned to delay the troops as long as possible, hoping they'd get caught in bad winter in the mountains. Okay. Brigham's plan b was to evacuate and burn salt lake city to the ground.

[B]

God, they just. You've been looking for Zion for so long.

[A]

He's totally set now. And he's like, we're. That's it.

[B]

He really is. He's like, it's over and it's all.

[A]

Just to get him. Yes.

[B]

He's a very selfish loser.

[A]

In August, he sent scouts out and told.

[B]

I can't believe there's a college named after this guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Imagine going to that school.

[A]

Yeah. In August, he sent scouts out and told local bishops that mormons were forbidden from selling produce to the gentile army. Wow. Mormon settlers were told the u. S. Government was planning a war of extermination and would hang Brigham and other principal leaders without a trial.

[B]

Great. Great. I'm into it. I'm finally into it.

[A]

Yeah. So for months, Brigham and other leaders built up tensions and sermons. So rile the people up. Yeah.

[B]

Basically what they do now.

[A]

Yeah. In September, a wagon train of migrants from Arkansas passed through Utah, and Mormon settlers said, they seem strange. These ones are weird. Yeah, they're from Utah. I mean, from Arkansas. Yeah, they're. Yeah, they're strange. Brigham later claimed they had poisoned a creek and an ox.

[B]

It's kind of a weird.

[A]

Migrants camped at the mountain meadow before crossing the desert, and the local mormons wrote to Brigham to ask if they should attack. He said no, but by this time. But by the time he said no, by the time I got the message, it was too late.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They, quote, butchered the women and most of the children. They mercilessly shot, stabbed, and slashed the throats of immigrants who pled for their lives. They spared 17 children too young to provide credible report reports about the crime. Local families then took in the kids until the army returned them to Eastern relatives 18 months later.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

120 men, women, and children Died.

[B]

God damn it.

[A]

Anybody else does that but a bunch of white people they. We slaughter.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Slaughtered them.

[B]

Yeah. No, that was why, like.

[A]

Yeah. If the Native Americans are 11.

[B]

We were like, can you imagine? Everywhere else is like. Yes. Yes, you did.

[A]

Yes. Although Brigham didn't directly order the massacre, historians now draw a line from his rhetoric and dehumanization of non Mormons and building of suspicion and tension. Yeah. To violence at Mountain Meadows.

[B]

They're all following through on his.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Philosophy, his theology.

[A]

The church, of course, tried to blame Native Americans.

[B]

They did it. Yeah.

[A]

Look at that.

[B]

Savage Brown. The last time.

[A]

Brigand's lack of condemnation of the slaughter led some to believe that he may have condoned it. Of course he did. Yeah. A captain arrived in Salt Lake to suss out the Mormons and report back their intentions and capabilities.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And Brigham tries to charm him.

[B]

Oh, we're up to very little friend.

[A]

Look at your uniform. It's great. You guys are great. I love the. What you do.

[B]

Anyone like some fresh butter?

[A]

Yes. Great. He welcomes him into his home. He's showing off his orchard. Introduce him to his family, which has got to take a while.

[B]

Can you believe God picked me to do this? Let me introduce you to the family here.

[A]

You have three hours.

[B]

We have Kathy, and that's Sheila. That's Joyce, That's Regina, That's Phyllis. That's another Kathy. That's Sarah, that's Fiona.

[A]

How many times do you think you forgot, Grace? One of their names.

[B]

Oh, God. He was like. Or birthdays or his kids. Oh, my God. Let me run you through the boys birthdays. Like, literally every day was probably an anniversary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What you get us for our anniversary?

[A]

Sex. So the captain warned that the resistance would be an act of treason. He's like, by the way, this is bull. You guys can't do this.

[B]

What? Do what? We didn't do nothing.

[A]

But Brigham not intimidated. On his last day there, the captain went to a Mormon service where Briga Brigham gave a quote, gave Uncle Sam considerable hellfire. And when President Buchanan read the captain's report, he concluded the Mormons were in armed rebellion against the state.

[B]

All right, so put them down. They've got an army of babies.

[A]

So after the captain leaves, Brigham declares martial law. So he knows right away. He's like, this guy's gonna bring back.

[B]

Like, yeah, it didn't go great.

[A]

Quote, no person shall be allowed to pass or repass into or through or from this territory without a permit from the proper office.

[B]

Jesus Christ. Mormon passports.

[A]

Just guys traveling Through California. Not getting wrapped up in this.

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

I'm just going to San Francisco. San Francisco? What?

[B]

Who's the woman?

[A]

That's my wife, Cathy.

[B]

Our wife, Kathy.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wait, what?

[B]

My wife Kathy.

[A]

I'm not part of your deal, okay?

[B]

Our wife.

[A]

I'm going to California with my wife.

[B]

Our wife. She wants to stay. My wife. You got. Go ahead. What?

[A]

She's a guy.

[B]

I don't care. Nice try.

[A]

Fuck.

[B]

Yeah. Put her in the Kathy house. That's where you go.

[A]

So six men were caught without a permit entering Utah. And the church decided there were army spies. And four were shot.

[B]

Two were like, you guys chill.

[A]

At least four. We don't know what happened. The other ones. Hearing that the army was getting closer, Brigham sent Mormon raiders out to set fire to grasslands so the army couldn't graze their animals. And then raiders set FL fire to three army supply trains, destroying two months worth of food.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Brigham, quote, pick off their guards and sentries and fire into their camps by night and pick off officers and as many men as possible by day.

[B]

I cannot believe he's scar facing. He like, this is supposed to be this religion, this man of pure morality. That's how it started. This guy found plates in his fucking yard and the whole thing was like, look, we've got a new message to spread. And now he's like, you will kill them and you will shoot them and make sure the crops are gone, by the way, if they have any wives.

[A]

So they hear the army is less than two weeks away, but terrible weather then hits, killing thousands of horses and livestock.

[B]

Oh, you knew too. He was like, yeah, who you with? God wanted it. That's my roommate.

[A]

The army stops. They now have to wait for the smoke snow to melt. And in November 1857, the Utah. New Utah governor, Alfred Cumming of Georgia and other appointees arrived at Bridger, which is just inside Utah, and they formed a makeshift grand jury and indicted Brigham and other leaders for treason.

[B]

Okay, let's cook.

[A]

So President Buchanan, quote, this is the first rebellion that has existed in our territories in humanity itself, requires that we should put it down in such a manner that it shall be the last.

[B]

Well, sure didn't happen. Yeah, it kind of was.

[A]

I don't remember that happening. So the Mormons are now totally isolated. Brigham's at real risk of being executed for treason. He's 56.

[B]

Oh, God damn.

[A]

He had rheumatism and chronic urological problems. Can't piss, can't pee. He's gonna say he's got the catheter. Yeah, old school catheter, which we've seen pictures of and is not great.

[B]

Looks nice.

[A]

Might as well get fisted in your penis.

[B]

Well, I mean, if that's. If who's offering, I guess, is the question. Brigham, man, that old catheter.

[A]

One of the worst things I've ever seen.

[B]

There you go now, careful, it's pretty rusty.

[A]

The stress is getting to them. Most believed they really couldn't hold out for long. Once spring came, many wondered if they would undertake another exodus. Maybe to Central America, Mexico, Russian, Alaska, even.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But Brigham didn't think there was any point of moving. If the Saints occupied any desirable land, the US Would come for them again. He's probably not wrong.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Well, you. Yeah, yeah, I agree. You up so bad wherever you go, we're gonna try to stomp you out.

[A]

Brigham looked for places to hide, along with his best friend forever, Heber Kimball, and some church leaders. In late February, one of the only non Mormons Brigham trusted, Thomas Kane arrived on a peace mission.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He told Brigham that the president was not as resolved as it seemed. So he might look away for a way out. Right? A way to solve the conflict. Now, Kane is a very smart negotiator, and he told Brigham the president wanted to issue an apology. He didn't. He had no intent. Made that up. That's made up. And convinced Brigham to offer supplies so the starving soldiers could eat on the border.

[B]

He wants to say sorry, huh?

[A]

If you could send sandwiches to those guys, he will be like, I'm so sorry about all that. Support for the dollop comes from Square. The system powering like half the places I go. So if. If you've ever tapped to pay and thought, well, oh, my God, if you've gone anywhere, that was fast. That's probably Square.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Gone on the road.

[A]

We sold merch squared up, made things very easy.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And you got it right there on your phone.

[B]

Oh, you love tapping on the road?

[A]

Love? I love.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But I love, like having a list and it all broken down and like. It's nice.

[B]

Yeah. Organization is the key to the. The whole thing for us. I'm a big part of that.

[A]

Yeah. And then, you know, this stuff, like the way the technology is now, it makes it so easy. If you just go to a cafe or, you know, whatever boutique as they.

[B]

Call it, go to a lot of cafes.

[A]

You just do your little tappy tap and there you go, like off you go. It's called the tappy tap. Yeah. So it makes everything quick and quick and seamless, you know. Great. Many people might be asking, what is square? It's a platform.

[B]

Oh, here, I'll do it.

[A]

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[B]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Who is my friend.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

I think you're big. Very pushy, but okay.

[A]

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[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

I did recently shave my head, so I'm not actually.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's. But before I did that, people were making a lot of comments.

[B]

You're going to bring it back?

[A]

Yeah. Probably go bring it back in a little while. My. My wife likes to me with a ball. A bald one.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And you use Natureville now?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't even know how far in I am. I've got to be getting close to.

[A]

Your hair looks good. Your hair's like been looking solid lately.

[B]

Hey, thank you.

[A]

First of all, before that, you look.

[B]

Like so many people. Quiet. So many people to think like I.

[A]

Would say Neutrophil before neutral. You look like roadkill. Like your hair looked like an animal that had been driven.

[B]

Getting a haircut tomorrow. So we'll see what happens.

[A]

And so neutral is the, that's the way to go. That's what we're saying.

[B]

Yeah, we love it. Everybody loves it. It's caught fire. Everyone's talking about Neutropol. I'm serious.

[A]

Yeah, no, I know. People talk about it like I get asked at shows, like I have a. People been like.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yep.

[A]

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[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Now, Brigham really liked that this destitute army had to rely on Mormon generosity.

[B]

Yeah, well, which is just like Jesus.

[A]

Yes, it's exactly like Jesus.

[B]

Just like Jesus.

[A]

So he sends a herd of cattle and 20000 pounds of flour.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he announces intention to leave Utah and all Mormons should move south and torch the place. If the army arrived.

[B]

Man, if you're not already with Mormonism at this point, you'd be like Wait, what?

[A]

That burned down my house for you.

[B]

Yeah. We got to go find another Zion.

[A]

Let's do it all again.

[B]

Tell you what. One of these days we're going to find a forever Zion and it would be fine.

[A]

Just a bunch of us died. It's no big deal. We'll do that.

[B]

So burn it all down.

[A]

So many did actually leave.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

People are like, what the fuck?

[B]

Where do they go?

[A]

They probably just go to another city.

[B]

Like, how about we're going to be what's called normal.

[A]

Brigham offered for governor coming to come and claim his office if he came without an army escort. So he's like, you can come and be governor. If you don't come rolling in with an army, like, we'll let you be governor. So then that Kane guy comes with coming. And Brigham and the church elders quote, sized up coming as a opportunity. Corpulent, alcoholic, of limited intelligence, fortitude and morals. So he's a drunk idiot.

[B]

I can't remember. Because you guys can't keep living like this.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

So we gotta figure something out to make it. To establish that you guys are gonna be part of the. Part of the package when it comes to America's time. Okay.

[A]

Doing a bottle of whiskey.

[B]

I'm on business.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's nice. All right. So what were we talking about?

[A]

I don't remember. But you said we're all gonna hang here and we should be cool.

[B]

Maybe get pizza.

[A]

It'd be cool. You say you're gonna become a Mormon.

[B]

I might be a Mormon. Okay. Sure. It'd be a good idea. I think I'm gonna die.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Okay. While Brigham was incredibly polite, he told the other leaders to be, quote, cold enough to freeze Peaches.

[B]

Peaches the dog.

[A]

Yes. On April 25th, they invited him to address a Mormon congregation. So they invite Cummings, who is dumb morals to. Yeah. To talk. And he offends them. One Mormon stood up and yelled, quote, those troops must be withdrawn before we can have any officers palmed upon us. And coming then admitted to Brigham, quote, I can do nothing here without your influence. You got this locked down, bro.

[B]

Smart to say that out loud.

[A]

Figured it out. Finally.

[B]

Smart to. He knows how to negotiate. Yeah, well, it seems like you've got a much larger upper hand than I do.

[A]

So in April, Buchanan offers, quote, a free and full pardon to Mormons who will submit themselves to the authority of the federal government.

[B]

100 take it.

[A]

There's no reason to negotiate with them because they're never going to do that.

[B]

I would take that.

[A]

Brigham reluctantly accepted of Course he did. It's a good deal.

[B]

Okay. He accepted.

[A]

Yeah, because or else they're going to get crushed by the army. In June, the army marched through an empty Salt Lake City. Ultimately, after all that, nothing changed, right? Because why would it? Because unless you're actually subjugating them and making them do stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're going to keep doing what they're doing.

[B]

So, wait, they were just like, you're not being Mormons right now, are you?

[A]

And everyone's like, no, no, I'm Mormons.

[B]

Promise.

[A]

Yeah, we're not Mormoning at all. No Mormoning.

[B]

Are you married to her?

[A]

I'm not married to anybody.

[B]

No one?

[A]

Yeah. No.

[B]

You guys swear to God you're not being Mormon.

[A]

I don't even know those other ladies.

[B]

Why is everyone so quiet? It feels like you're just pretending to not be Mormon.

[A]

We're just watching.

[B]

Watching what?

[A]

You. Just hanging out. Watching.

[B]

You know, while I'm in town. I think I want to take four wives. Oh, no.

[A]

That's so wrong. So bad. Bad boy stuff.

[B]

All right, well, I think I'm gonna get going.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Don't start being Mormon again.

[A]

Anywhere.

[B]

All right.

[A]

No coke.

[B]

All right.

[A]

No cat. No coffee. None of that stuff.

[B]

See you later.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Bye. Bye. All right, I really learned a lesson.

[A]

Orgy time.

[B]

Hey, wait. Hey.

[A]

I mean food.

[B]

Oh, all right.

[A]

Turn the pineapple up.

[B]

I'm far away.

[A]

So they still do polygamy? No, Norman. No non Mormon officials are installed. But it.

[B]

So they were basically like, stop it. They said, yes, and they're just going to be Mormon?

[A]

Yeah, basically. In the early 1860s, Brigham turned 60, and he's falling apart a little bit. So dentists pulled out a large number of decayed teeth and made him a set of false teeth. Brigham, quote, I could find no more girls who would choose me for a husband than can any of the young men. Oh, sorry. I could find more girls who would choose me for a husband than can any of the young men. Because you're the leader with all the.

[B]

Money, because you're in charge of everything.

[A]

Everything.

[B]

I'm excited. A million dollar. Oh, look at you. Aren't you a cute little lady?

[A]

Imagine the. The cachet it would be just to walk around and be like, yeah, married. To bring him young. Like, you're.

[B]

That's right. She found a winner.

[A]

His personal wealth is still growing. In 1859, he is worth 250,000, which.

[B]

Is 10 million today, just like God intended.

[A]

A lot of it's in real estate. As trustee for the Church. Much of the church's property is in his name.

[B]

Dude, how the do they keep falling for the guy who has it all? I don't know what's like, the whole thing is that it's like, isn't the whole thing we're supposed to be, like, fair and balanced and shared? And yet every time there's some guy who's like, well, I need a jet, otherwise I can't get close to God. I gotta be able to fly there alone.

[A]

Brigham, quote, God heaps property upon me and I am duty bound to take care of it.

[B]

No, you. Yeah, take care of it then.

[A]

That makes sense. God's like, this guy should have all the property because he does a good job. He's a good landlord. So great.

[B]

If God was really back there. Dude, what the are you doing?

[A]

Dude, I have the biggest landlord.

[B]

Yeah, I know that's not how this is supposed to be because of you. No, I know you. Would you just pick one woman and be with her?

[A]

Reacheth down and say, I did not.

[B]

No, you liar. Tell him what I'm actually saying.

[A]

I get all the stuff.

[B]

Say what I'm actually saying.

[A]

He wanted me to run all the. No, I did not. This is great.

[B]

No, it isn't.

[A]

Only I can hear him. He loves it.

[B]

Just lying. He's saying, I'm doing a really good job. He's happy.

[A]

By the early 18th century, call me the new Jesus. By the early 1860s, he is managing farms, mills, a cotton factory and a.

[B]

Lumber yard just like God wanted me to.

[A]

He's got about 200 employees.

[B]

How crazy is it how much God likes me and doesn't care for you? Lot too many of you.

[A]

One employee was paid, quote 1.75 cents per day. During the busy time. If he works longer and times not so busy, but his wages to be less, he is to be paid in anything we have except cash or store pay. Is promising some better clothing.

[B]

So he's just going to give him some clothes.

[A]

No money. Script and close. When a worker asked for a raise, Brigham yelled at him, how dare you. I get that.

[B]

Take all of my rings off. I am gonna backhand this man. Get every ring. And my dangly bracelets. And watch number one. And watch number two. And watch number three.

[A]

Bring him a chance.

[B]

And watch number five. And watch number five. Hold on. Watch number six. And watch number seven. And my shoulder watch. And the watch I wear like a wrestling belt.

[A]

He went to.

[B]

And my necklace, that's also a watch. And my headband. That's a watch. And My leg watches. Number leg watch number one. Leg notch number two. Leg watch number three. Hold on. Don't let him go anywhere. Leg watch number four. Leg washer number five. All right, and now let's move on to the neck.

[A]

Alice says he, he took off a while ago, went to lunch. Well, it's gonna take you a while to put all that stuff back on.

[B]

No, no, I'm just doing. Number watch number one and watch number two and watch a number three and watch a number four.

[A]

When Lincoln. When Lincoln became president, governor Cumming left Utah. The Mormons, by the way, that would.

[B]

Be a much better name for Brigham young.

[A]

Government coming 100%. The Mormons did not pick a. I'm Lieutenant Governor loads.

[B]

We're the smash brothers. We've. My people have finally built me the first God's eye only smush room.

[A]

The mormons did not take a side in the civil war. I don't want to get involved in this.

[B]

Oh, I don't know. Seems a little dicey. Brigham quote, I wish the best of luck to both sides.

[A]

Yeah. Brigham quote we are not by any means treasoners, secessionists or abolitionists. We are neither negro drivers nor negro worshipers.

[B]

Cool stuff.

[A]

Worshipers.

[B]

Yeah, like that's an option that was.

[A]

Literally not part of.

[B]

We all remember what the north was fighting for. We wish to worship them.

[A]

He was happy to get rid of slavery because he thought it would get rid of black people.

[B]

Oh, my God. I am very glad that slavery is illegal. Well, thank you, Brigham. Now maybe it'll be all whites.

[A]

And then while the war, you know, the US doesn't pay attention to him.

[B]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[A]

In January 1862, they held a state convention, adopted a new constitution and nominated Brigham for governor again. Brigham, quote, we will ask congress to admit us into the family of the states. What if they do not? We have got a government and what are they going to do about it? True. And I guess if they weren't admitted in, they would become their own country.

[B]

Yeah, they basically are doing.

[A]

Yeah. So they voted for him and they announced the territory of Utah was now the state of deseret. It's not. That works, by the way.

[B]

Much better name.

[A]

Their application was then rejected, but they continued on as a ghost government.

[B]

Ghost from it.

[A]

And the u. S. Sent more soldiers to Utah. In January 1863, Brigham was sealed to Amelia Folsom, a handsome, magnetic 24 year old. His first marriage is seven years. Get back on that horse. If you're feeling sad, if you're feeling lonely or weird, get married. To a young lady.

[B]

I'm very excited to have you in my new brain. How does it feel to get the catch of catches?

[A]

Quote I never entered into the order of plurality of wives to gratify passion.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

I hate it.

[B]

No. That was just one of the fortunate upsides to this situation.

[A]

So this new marriage leads to gossip and speculation because he seemed to treat Amelia better than his other wives. She was his new favorite.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Brigham. Quote, every old woman thinks she must go to every party. And many of first wives think she should be a queen and the rest of the wives, serfs. But this I do not believe in. So all he's saying, all the other ladies like simmer the down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Every old woman thinks she must go to every. Every.

[B]

Just crazy. This such a piece of. They all think that they must go to parties and eat everything and. And they just don't shut up.

[A]

Watch you at 40, woman. You're done.

[B]

These women are so annoying. That's what I love about my new bride.

[A]

After the civil War, President Andrew Johnson did not care about Utah. The state lost territory to Nevada and Colorado. And Brigham kept encouraging new settlements. He wanted to claim the most fertile areas before the gentiles came in. Yep. The fact that people already live there didn't really bother him beyond the annoyance of having to move them along.

[B]

He doesn't care about pre established ownership of anything.

[A]

He doesn't care about anything.

[B]

He didn't care about anything. That's my wife. I'm gonna her. That's my land. It's mine.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, the fact that he's charging Mormons to come with these handcarts and.

[B]

Just you imagine like making like seeing 150 people die.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you get there like, huh, we finally we have married. We are so hungry. That'll be $10.

[A]

What?

[B]

That'll be $10 plus that's my wife.

[A]

Despite his motto that it was cheaper to feed them than to fight them, neither the Mormons nor U. S. Agents gave the Native Americans enough food. Food. And the native American population started to decline because they were starving.

[B]

What's with them?

[A]

What? They're so lazy.

[B]

Gosh.

[A]

Both the Mormons and Native Americans hated the United States army. Brigham went to a council of youth chiefs where the government offered 60 years of payments in return for them to leave their lands. The chiefs do not like this offer. They do not trust the US Government. But I don't know why they respect Brigham Young.

[B]

I mean, it's. You Know the enemy of your enemy is your friend.

[A]

Yeah. He said the government and the Mormons would just take the land with or without a deal. And he's like, you're not going to get a better deal, so you might as well just sign on or you're going to get nothing.

[B]

The. The Native American. What is the deal?

[A]

The deal was 60 years of payments.

[B]

Oh, that's with the Mormons.

[A]

No, it's for the Native Americans.

[B]

Right, right. Yeah, right.

[A]

Not from the Mormons. From the U.S. oh, okay. But he's saying.

[B]

He's saying take that.

[A]

Yeah, right. And then all the chiefs signed except for one. Sand Pitch. Sand Pitch reluctantly came around a week later. So Brigham hoped the agreement would mean they could just take the land without pushback or raids from Native Americans. But that's obviously crazy.

[B]

He thinks that because they've signed a deal with the U.S. now he gets to take the land. Yeah, he really is.

[A]

He's really a piece of.

[B]

He's living in a nice little headspace right now.

[A]

That's obviously crazy. They're not just gonna. Yeah. So Brigham would tell settlers, quote, do not let them stay with you, but treat them as enemies. A Mormon militia killed more than a dozen men, women and children in six teepees. Another tribe started then. Then started raiding Mormon settlements. And Brigham thought they were aided by the Utes. He had his militia kidnap Chief Sandpitch, demanding to know where the raiders leader was. And it ended with several being killed and then Sand Pitch being killed. This caused previously friendly and cooperative Utes to go and turn on the Mormons. And then there was a cycle of violence and reprisals. And Brigham did acknowledge the Mormons live, quote, on their possessions and in their homes. But Mormons deserve to be there because of God.

[B]

Yeah, that's what you don't understand. You guys worship weird. God wants us all to be here. He loves your homes.

[A]

Could you imagine someone taking homes and saying it was because of God?

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Many predicted that the arrival of the railroad would destroy the Mormons in Utah with an influx of non Mormons. Mormons. Oh, you don't want non Mormons. So Brigham warned his people not to do trade with non Mormon traders. Quote, there are Jews here. They are not our friends. Do not trade with him. They do not believe in Jesus Christ.

[B]

Oh, my God. This mother. This guy. Dude, we. We.

[A]

He's an all hater.

[B]

Yeah, he is.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, hey, there is one. There is one God and Brigham Young's eyes.

[A]

This is just such a crazy narcissist. Nut. It's insane.

[B]

Careful. The you know what the train's gonna do? Bring Jews. You know what the trail did? A bunch of juice. Bunch of juice. They only like one wife. Nah, I don't like it.

[A]

But then he flips on the whole railroad thing when he realized the church would make a fortune hiring out morbid Mormon laborers for cheap.

[B]

Sure. He really loved capital.

[A]

Boy, did he like money. Many, many would because of their faith. Or they're just in debt. So either one. So Brigham negotiates a 2 million dollar contract.

[B]

A 2 million.

[A]

2 million to grade 150 miles of the Union Pacific line. And remember, the railroads are meeting in Utah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then other Mormon leaders signed a 4 million deal to grade a portion of the Central Pacific line. And that meant Mormon labor would bring the two lines together and have the meat.

[B]

Yeah. It feels like the Mormons were running so many trains that the lines would eventually meet. So good for them.

[A]

The railroad did bring a lot of dirty gentiles and many of them were able to run successful businesses. So they're getting businesses up and running. So Brigham's like, all right. And created. He created these Zions. Cooperative mercantile Institution. The zcmi.

[B]

What the is that?

[A]

So it would buy goods in bulk from the east and then bring them in so Mormon merchants could sell at lower costs, undermining the non Mormons businesses.

[B]

Wow. So ubering.

[A]

Yeah. So merchants taking part displayed a ZCMI sign in their storefront.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

It was either an all seeing eye. And it was an all seeing eye. And the phrase holiness to the Lord. Wow. Wow.

[B]

Well, I love everything you have. Are you the Lord's chosen store?

[A]

Somewhat surprisingly, Utah held an election and overwhelmingly voted for black suffrage. That's just. That comes out of left field for me. I don't know what just happened.

[B]

No. What?

[A]

No, they can't vote. What the are you doing?

[B]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

And they were the second state after Wyoming to give women the vote in 1870.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That blows my mind like now. I don't know what's going on.

[B]

That's not.

[A]

It became clear the Grant administration were less willing to leave Utah alone. The vice President visited Salt Lake and demanded the Mormons obey the anti bigamy act. Now it's also. It's too late. That ship sailed.

[B]

But it is illegal now.

[A]

It's illegal. But. But you. So you fake it, right? You just marry one and then the other ones.

[B]

The other ones are fake wives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

President Grant appointed ex congressman and Civil war veteran James McKean. As territorial chief justice. And he went on an anti polygamy rampage. An apostle described him as Mormonism's most relenting, preserving, persevering and active enemy. And he was going after Brigham. So McKean formed a non Mormon grand jury. And on October 2nd, 70 year old Brigham Young and other churches. 70, 70 year olds. 70, 70 years old and other church leaders were arrested for bigamy. And thousands crowded outside the courtroom when he appeared and posted a five thousand dollar bail. Wow. Justice McKean rejected a motion to quash the charges saying quote, a system is on trial in the person of Brigham Young. While out on bail, Brigham heard he would then be arrested for murder. So he hid in an elder's mansion out of town with quote, a sufficient number of brethren to protect him from assassination.

[B]

He learned from Joseph Smith.

[A]

He did. Yeah, he did. But in January of 1872. So I'm not sure what year that was. So it's a while later. It's two years later, he was arrested again, but placed under house arrest.

[B]

That's where all his wives are. You idiots. What are you doing? Oh, darn.

[A]

What if while I'm arrested I just keep having.

[B]

How did you do house arrest back then? You swear to of God?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

This is before the anklet.

[A]

You're not going to do anything?

[B]

No.

[A]

However, another case in the Supreme Court which overturned a ruling against Mormons, put a halt to the prosecution. And Brigham's off the hook during this time, despite poor health, sometimes he couldn't walk. He's in very bad health.

[B]

I can.

[A]

He's still married. Tons of young ladies.

[B]

I'm ready to.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

You can't walk. Bring him.

[A]

Have you ever had a man fall apart in front of you? Put a rubber.

[B]

Put a. Put a rubber band around its base. It'll lift. It'll lift. This is all about blood control.

[A]

Trust me, I don't want to be here.

[B]

Come on. What about. This isn't hot.

[A]

Everything okay?

[B]

You ever seen a man made of elbows?

[A]

Oh, oh.

[B]

There you go. Now that we got it running, take the rubber band off. Oh, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. We got another ride left in the old car. Oh my God. There we go.

[A]

I need you to shut the up.

[B]

Why?

[A]

In 1867, Mary Van Cott and Ann Webb, both 23. In 1869, Elizabeth Jones. This is Hefner, who owned a bunch of property in Provo where he wanted to build factories. In 1870, Elizabeth Farnsworth 72, poet Hannah Tapfield. In addition to his main Residence. He bought a few Salt Lake City homes for his wives and eventually bought additional houses in Provo, Logan, and St. George.

[B]

Man, the key, I think the key to Mormonism and many religions is shut out reality. But if you hear this and you're like, yeah, I'm hanging in there with this one. I mean, this how? What the.

[A]

Yeah. He spent more time with a select group of trusted male church leaders than with any of his wives. This included some of his sons.

[B]

He definitely can't shoot anymore.

[A]

No, that.

[B]

Because otherwise, he's definitely. Now he's like, it's boy time.

[A]

Yeah, he can't. He can't do it anymore. Joseph Engel Brigham, Jr. Who was known as Briggy and John Willard. In 1873, Young formalized this inner circle of advisors, making John Willard and Briggy assistant counselors. Brigham was succession planning, promoting John. Although many of the other church leaders wanted Biggie to take over. Briggy.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Briggy, Briggy, Briggy, can't you see?

[A]

And Elizabeth Webb Young sued Brigham for divorce in federal court.

[B]

Court. What?

[A]

I know I made good. I can lay on you.

[B]

I love whatever her name is.

[A]

Couldn't we just look at each other until I'm gone?

[B]

My heart's broken.

[A]

She alleged emotional, physical, and financial neglect other than that, and wanted a thousand dollars in monthly alimony and 20,000 illegal fees.

[B]

I don't have it.

[A]

I have nothing. I'm broke. She also wanted 200, 000 from his future estate. Quote, in response, the church president argued that since his marriage to Ann Eliza had no legal basis, he owed her nothing.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

Because he's only married?

[B]

Yeah, he's married once in the church.

[A]

No, he's married in the eyes of the church, not legally married.

[B]

Oh, so now they're like, yeah, your laws and God's laws are.

[A]

So she heads out and hits the road and starts sharing her horror stories of being a Mormon wife.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Quote, the things which I suffered opened my eyes to the hollowness of Brigham Young's pretensions to sancta to sanctity of character, and unveiled the system of which he was head. And I was one of many victims. And she becomes an overnight celebrity, and in 1875, wrote and published a book called Wife Number 19. So the case goes to trial in April 1877, and the judge accepts his argument that the marriage was illegal and dismissed her suit. Quote, the fact that Young won the case on the basis of the marriage's illegality, however, argue augured poorly for the future of Mormon polygamy. Yeah.

[B]

He is sacrificing because the.

[A]

The future, like, it doesn't matter anymore because he can't. He's too old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So now cut it all loose so he doesn't lose a little bit of cash. I mean, essentially, he could have.

[B]

I mean, but that's. That's how he's operated the whole time. But now, like, the cat's out of the bag.

[A]

Yeah. A grand jury indicted several Mormons for murder for the Mountain massacre, which was 16 years before. Only one man went to trial, though. John Lee. In his closing remarks, the prosecutor declared that Brigham forced the community to be silent about the massacre. Quote, in no other community on God's earth could this heinous crime be allowed to slumber for 18 years. So the first trial is a hung jury, but then Lee is convicted in a second trial, and. And he sentenced to death. And as he was sentenced, the judge said, quote, the massacre seems to have been the result of a vast conspiracy extending from Salt Lake City to the Bloody Field. The Mormon elders presented a persistent and determined opposition to an investigation of the massacre. So Lee chose to die by firing squad in March, 1877 in a box.

[B]

What are the other options? Hanging.

[A]

Hang. I'm sure there's. Yeah, hanging.

[B]

I'd love to be.

[A]

Stick to the eye. Drowning batch. That. Ax it off.

[B]

We keep tossing you till you stop living. We got a bunch of ways you could.

[A]

We roll you down the hill a bunch.

[B]

You could do a hill, dad. We can pelt you with rocks, toss.

[A]

You in the lake, hit you with.

[B]

Rocks to shove stuff up your butt till it comes your malt.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's a good one.

[B]

Eat you with shoes.

[A]

Go. What's the. Shove stuff up the. I like that.

[B]

We do the thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's basically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We just jam it up till it pops out of you. It's called pushing up the daisies. Nobody's taking it. We'd love to try it.

[A]

We've been wanting to try that forever.

[B]

We want to try. We never even thought someone would want to get walked through that one.

[A]

We don't give a choice. We just do that.

[B]

No, no. It's America.

[A]

Hey, buddy.

[B]

We'Re running out of stuff to shove up this guy.

[A]

Bowling ball here.

[B]

Here you go.

[A]

I mean, so he gets sentenced to death, and the judge said, quote, the massacre seems to have been the result of a vast conspiracy extending from Salt Lake City to the Bloody Field. I already did that. In a biography published after his death to cover legal fees, Lee wrote, quote, the Mountain Massacre was the result of the direct teachings of Brigham Young. And it was done by the orders of those high in authority in the Mormon community. So I'm assuming that they just like. They hung them out to dry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they, like, didn't come to help him.

[B]

And then they just did a mic drop at the end.

[A]

Total mic drop. Brigham never charged and just keeps doing his stuff. He's focused on building settlements and temples. He opened Brigham Young Academy, which still exists today as Brigham Young University. In 1877, more than 1,000 Mormons gathered to dedicate a new temple, the first they'd completed since leaving Nauvoo. So it's. I remember that was like, that's 50, 40 something. More than a thousand Mormons gathered, and Brigham spoke. He needed to help. He didn't help to walk due to his age. And he declared they could finally practice their religion properly, engaging in all the sacred rituals.

[B]

I. I can still get. I can get it up. Get my rubber band.

[A]

He lamented that many Mormons were too obsessed with money.

[B]

Piece of. Some of you just are big crazy money. It's not all about money.

[A]

You care about. Can I get money? What are you doing?

[B]

Good God, what a piece of.

[A]

Quote. We're damn fools. You will go to hell's lots of you, unless you repent. He's so talking about himself.

[B]

He's very trumpy too.

[A]

So, yeah, he is so talking about himself. At this point in August 1877. 1877, after returning to Salt Lake City, he fell ill with cramps, vomiting and diarrhea. His appendix burst two days later. So great. He vomited and himself at least two days something. He died a few days later on August 29, age 76.

[B]

God damn it.

[A]

They never die early now.

[B]

They live like. They live the best lives. They just. They. They.

[A]

Yeah. Total piece of. Got everything you wanted.

[B]

It's always the way. I'm trying to think of when was the last time a huge piece of went early. They just last forever.

[A]

They do. He had married 56 wives and had 57 children.

[B]

God damn. I thought the kids would be more. But again, a lot were probably dying.

[A]

Yeah. There's a good chance that everyone listening to this is related to. Charlotte. George did the research. Main source, John Turner, Brigham Young, pioneer, prophet. Another source, Mr. Warner, Brigham Young and then Stephen Hardy. Letter to his family. 1862, on arriving in Salt Lake City.

[B]

It's crazy that it still exists. I mean, it's crazy that it survived the Book of Mormon.

[A]

Well, it's just like.

[B]

It's just like when I Went to see the Book of Mormon, the musical. They had more advertisements for Mormonism at the event.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Like, so they probably bought, you know, Amazing. But how it survives this.

[A]

Well, it's just like Scientology.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's. It's money and power and once they get it, then they just, you know.

[B]

But he even makes David Miscavige look, like, conservative.

[A]

I mean, this is crazy.

[B]

This is nuts.

[A]

It's just. It's not even an Amway thing. It's just one guy getting rich. Yeah.

[B]

And just everyone else falling in line.

[A]

And they all are like, yay.

[B]

By the way, if you go through that for that long, you do start to, like. I think that's what happens to the. The preachers who. They start to think that it is God who chose them because they're thriving in this. They have to think that they're somewhat special.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they start to really, like, act like it. So it's kind of self fulfilling in a way, but what an absolute piece of crap.

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy.

[B]

And a university, I mean.

[A]

Yeah. But everything. I mean, so much named after him. Yeah. It's really wild. It's just.

[B]

I mean, in Salt Lake City has carved itself into being a more normal town. But there was like, even in my lifetime, it was like, weird.

[A]

Yeah. Not long ago. Yeah.

[B]

Like, they finally were like, all right, we gotta just.

[A]

Well, that's where people would flee when they left there. You know, there's a lot of people in those compounds and. And then they kick dudes out and like. Or you escape or you just leave your Mormon, like, super strict family and then you go to the city. Right. Yeah. And so it becomes a bastion of people who are like, no, I'm not.

[B]

Really as far as driving through a state you can't beat. Utah.

[A]

It's gorgeous. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, boy. Well, I'll tell you what, I. That's Ben.

[A]

His religion has led to so much suffering.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Young women.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And also kids who were molested like crazy.

[B]

Well. Yeah. So let's leave it on a high note. Oh, hello there, doll heads. It's Gareth Reynolds. I want you to join the gear force and come and see me do stand up on the road. I will be in Spokane, Washington, February 4th. I will be in Bend, Oregon, February 5th, Portland, the 6th and the 7th. Then I will be in Bakersfield, California, February 27th for two shows. And then. Oh, boy. April, here we go. April 19th. I'll be in Albuquerque, Tulsa on April 21st. Oklahoma City, April 22nd, Dallas, April 23rd. Gonna try to see a viral chiropractor that day, but that's neither here nor there. I'll be in Tyler, Texas, April 24th. I didn't even know that. I'll be in Houston April 25th for two shows. I'll be in Austin at Cap city on the 26th. And then the 28th, I will be rounding it out in San Antonio at LOL. Oh my gosh. And I'll be in Tucson, Arizona. That's rounding it out. Go to GarethReynolds.com for tickets and information. Also prizes. We're giving away a bunch of trucks and stuff over there if you just log on. And legally, that's not binding. But go to garethreynolds.com love you.