Boundaries in Doula Work: A Conversation with Allison Coleman of Austin Baby Guru

Summary

The Doula Darcy Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: Boundaries in Doula Work: A Conversation with Allison Coleman of Austin Baby Guru
Host: Darcy Sauers
Guest: Allison Coleman
Release Date: February 17, 2025

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Doula Darcy Podcast, host Darcy Sauers welcomes Allison Coleman, the founder of Austin Baby Guru (ABG) Doula Training. Drawing from Allison's extensive 26-year experience in doula work and her innovative approach to agency management, the conversation delves deep into the pivotal role boundaries play in fostering sustainable and fulfilling careers for doulas.

---

Allison Coleman's Background and Agency Formation

Allison Coleman begins by sharing her journey into doula work, which began in 2007-2008. By 2010, she had established her agency in Austin, Texas, initially to manage client demands for flexible doula services, including overnight support. Recognizing the need for a structured approach, Allison expanded her team and soon began training other doulas, leading to the official launch of ABG Doula Training in 2017.

Notable Quote:
“I have a really firm belief that the more of us that do great doula work, the more work there is. We refer back and forth to each other for years.”
— Allison Coleman [04:37]

---

The Importance of Boundaries in Doula Work

A central theme of the episode is the significance of establishing clear boundaries in doula practice. Allison emphasizes that boundaries are crucial not only for personal well-being but also for maintaining the quality of care provided to clients. She attributes her strong boundary-setting abilities to both innate traits and supportive parenting.

Notable Quote:
“Boundaries are about charging what you need in order to pay your bills and have a little extra. Boundaries are about working the right number of hours that works for your family and for your body and for your soul.”
— Allison Coleman [34:12]

---

Allison's Unique Agency Model

Allison discusses her distinctive approach to running ABG Doula Training, which contrasts with traditional doula agencies. Instead of a high-volume, low-touch model, she maintains a smaller, selective team ensuring personalized involvement with each client. This model allows her to uphold high standards of care and fosters a supportive environment for her doulas.

Key Points:

• Selective Client Intake: Clients must apply to work with ABG, undergoing a mutual interview process to ensure compatibility. This includes discussing expectations, services required, and aligning on mutual values.
• Structured Onboarding: Unlike agencies that quickly assign doulas to clients, ABG implements a thorough onboarding process. Clients receive detailed contracts, pricing structures, and clear explanations of services.
• Consistent Pricing: Allison maintains competitive yet premium pricing ($60/hour), which positions ABG as a high-quality service provider in the Austin market.
• Doula Training and Support: All doulas undergo ABG's training, ensuring consistency in service quality. Allison also offers mentorship, although she acknowledges the challenges in setting boundaries around this mentorship.

Notable Quote:
“Having those boundaries is just as important as having them modeled for you.”
— Darcy Sauers [06:15]

---

Client and Doula Compatibility

Allison stresses the importance of matching clients with doulas who complement each other, ensuring a harmonious and effective support system. Her agency's approach minimizes the likelihood of conflicts and enhances the overall experience for families.

Notable Quote:
“I do know what our onboarding process is. I know that I'm going to invoice them each week. I know that they need to pay within three days.”
— Allison Coleman [21:31]

---

Handling Challenges and Maintaining Boundaries

Allison candidly shares challenges faced in agency management, such as handling unexpected client needs or personal issues among doulas. Despite these hurdles, her structured approach to boundaries ensures that both clients and doulas feel respected and supported.

Notable Quote:
“Boundaries doesn't have to be mean. I mean, boundaries are about charging what you need in order to pay your bills and have a little extra.”
— Allison Coleman [34:12]

---

Sustainability Through Clear Boundaries

The conversation highlights how clear boundaries contribute to long-term sustainability in doula careers. Allison's model demonstrates that respectful and well-defined boundaries lead to higher job satisfaction, reduced burnout, and a thriving doula community.

Notable Quote:
“Boundaries are about picking the clients that you really want to work with.”
— Allison Coleman [35:03]

---

Training and Mentorship at ABG Doula Training

Allison elaborates on her training programs, which combine online modules with in-person workshops. This hybrid model ensures that doulas are well-prepared both theoretically and practically, fostering a community of skilled and boundary-conscious professionals.

Key Points:

• Evergreen Online Training: Accessible at ABG Doula Training, the online program allows doulas to learn at their own pace.
• In-Person Workshops: These two-day workshops cover foundational modules, infant safety, newborn care, and feeding, preparing doulas for real-world scenarios.
• Continuous Support: Post-certification, Allison provides ongoing mentorship, helping doulas integrate boundary-setting into their practices.

Notable Quote:
“We all want our clients to be successful in parenting. But I also want the doulas that work with me and just the doulas that train with me to be successful.”
— Allison Coleman [33:57]

---

Success Stories and Impact

Allison shares success stories of doulas who have flourished under her agency's boundary-focused model. One standout example is Kristen Lucas, who has significantly advanced her practice by adhering to the principles taught at ABG.

Notable Quote:
“Kristen Lucas... she had pretty good boundaries in the beginning, but she's definitely learned how to put them in place in order to grow this fabulous business.”
— Allison Coleman [33:07]

---

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the vital role boundaries play in doula work. Allison and Darcy underscore that establishing and maintaining clear boundaries not only enhances personal well-being but also elevates the quality of care provided to families. Allison’s approach serves as a model for doulas aiming to build sustainable, heart-centered businesses without compromising their values or personal lives.

Final Notable Quote:
“Boundaries are about charging what you need... and if you have boundaries in your business, you are not sustainable.”
— Allison Coleman [08:08]

---

Connect with Allison Coleman

For more information on Allison Coleman and ABG Doula Training, visit:

• Website: ABG Doula Training
• Instagram:
  • BabyGuru Doula: @babyguru_doula
  • ABG Postpartum Doula Training: @abgpp_doula_training

---

This episode offers invaluable insights for doulas at all stages of their careers, emphasizing that boundaries are not barriers but rather the foundation for a thriving, compassionate, and sustainable doula practice.

Transcript

[Darcy]

Welcome to the Doula Darcy Podcast. I'm your host, Darcy, a business coach for doulas. And I love helping my fellow doulas master the art of marketing so that they can grow their businesses and help more families. On the podcast, I combine my decade of experience in Advertising with 14 years as a doula to empower other doulas with the marketing strategies and mindset shifts they need to attract more clients and create successful, fulfilling doula careers. Whether you're just starting out as a doula or you're looking to take your doula business to the next level, you're in the right place. Let's go. Okay, my friends, welcome to a new episode of the Doula Darcy podcast. I'm thrilled today to have Allison Coleman of ABG Doula training and so much more. And we'll dive into all that. But I was thinking about it today, Allison, you were one of the people I knew. I felt like I knew online really well from all the doula Facebook groups and just seeing all your posts and all that you do in the world. And then two years ago, you came to the birth worker retreat in Clearwater and I got to meet you in person. And I, I remember that first birth worker retreat. I was just walking around. It's like being on Facebook, but everybody's in 3D. And you were a big part of that. Cause I just. And so now I got to know you then. And then you came again this past year.

[Allison Coleman]

Now I'm like a real person to you now.

[Darcy]

You are a whole real person. And you joined my doula village. And it's just been a real pleasure, such a pleasure to get to know you even better that I wanted you to come on the podcast. Me too. And so. And the reason is you joined my doula village, even though you're a very experienced doula, you obviously are surrounded by other doulas. It's been really great to have your perspective in there about your experience as a doula. You run an agency and you just, you always have so much to share with all the other doulas in my Doula village. And like I said, I wanted you on the podcast and specifically talk about boundaries, because that is what I've noticed is the theme with what you share at the birth worker retreat and online. But also in our my Doula Village community, you have exceptional, crystal clear boundaries and it makes everything we were just talking before we hit record, like, it makes life and business so much easier when you do. But first, you are now, right now living in Asheville North Carolina. But you have a big, successful, thriving agency in Austin, Texas. How long did you live in Austin?

[Allison Coleman]

Thirty years.

[Darcy]

Oh, yeah. And how long have you had that agency? How long were you a doula?

[Allison Coleman]

I started. I started as a doula, I think in 2008, 2007. I worked with other doulas for a while. I started my agency in 2010. When I first started my agency, it was mostly because I had clients that wanted seven days a week or they wanted daytime and overnight. And I don't enjoy daytime. I love overnights. Or they just wanted a lot of overnights. And that boundary thing gets in my way of doing a lot of overnights.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

So I started bringing in other doulas that were in our community and I figured out really quickly that I was retraining them the way I wanted them. At one point, two of my doulas went off and started their own agency. And they came to me and said, hey, do you mind if we do this? I know we'll be in competition. And I'm like, no, this is good. Because I have a really firm belief that the more of us that do great doula work, the more work there is. We refer back and forth to each other for years. So their first year, several times they reached out to me and said, hey, my next door neighbor would be a great doula or my babysitter would be a great doula. Would you train her for me? And that's how I started officially training doulas. So 2017, I started ABG postpartum doula certification. The website is ABG doula training. Back and forth on the name. Yeah, officially it's Austin Baby Gurus Postpartum Austin Baby Gurus Doula training. But that whole ABG thing, yeah, it's good marketing.

[Darcy]

Good marketing.

[Allison Coleman]

My mother laughed. She said, you could move anywhere that had an A.

[Darcy]

So here's my. So here's my question. Were you born with good boundaries or did was it? I feel like I'm asking because I feel like I have pretty good boundaries now. Purely like trial by fire. Every bound. I always say, every boundary I have, I got the hard way. So I wanna know how.

[Allison Coleman]

Honestly, in all honesty, I think I was born with really good boundaries. And I was incredibly lucky that I had parents that honored that because I think when you look at most little children.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Look at 2 and 4 year olds, they have good boundaries.

[Darcy]

True.

[Allison Coleman]

We knock it out of them just by the way we socialize, people.

[Darcy]

Oh.

[Allison Coleman]

Our society does this whole mind game on us that says if you're going to be loving and kind and heart centered. You have to lay down to be step dog. Spell it out that way. But we're told all the time from the time we're little children, no, let's be nice to her, do what she wants, be.

[Darcy]

Oh, I was going to say, especially.

[Allison Coleman]

As women or as little girls. Yes, I think I was born with them, but I also think I was incredibly lucky to have parents who went, okay, she's difficult, but this is who she is. And just they set boundaries with me. And I think that getting boundaries is just as important as having them.

[Darcy]

Oh, and having them modeled for you.

[Allison Coleman]

Yeah, absolutely. I say that to my doula students all the time about clients. It's like if you don't have any boundaries with your clients, you don't model that for them. When I'm working with a mom, especially a breastfeeding mom, that's often the first time I ever mention boundaries with her. It's, oh, let's, it's okay if you keep nursing, if that's, if you keep having the baby at your breast right now, if that's what's working for you. But if it's not working for you, let's check some other ways to see if maybe baby's full or if they just need to fulfill that sucking need. And if it hurts, it's okay to take them off because that's the first boundary you're ever gonna set is saying, hey, I need to take care of my body in order to share it with you. And your baby still knows you love them right back on with a better latch. So I use that terminology in with clients all the time too.

[Darcy]

I love that because I think that's where boundaries go sideways for so many doulas. As little girls we're raised and as women that to be a good girl, a good mom, a good daughter like you accommodate everyone except yourself. That's just the subconscious message most of us are fed.

[Allison Coleman]

And it's even amplified when you run a heart centered business. Yes, doulas do the work. Even if we can make really good money, we do it because of the love we have for clients, the love we have for that process of becoming parents. Massage therapists, counselors, lactation, lactation workers. Anybody who comes to their job out of a heart centered reason often struggles with boundaries. And if you have boundaries in your business, you are not sustainable.

[Darcy]

Oh, 1 million percent.

[Allison Coleman]

So important for sustainability. In my doula training, we talk about it a lot when we talk about choosing who your ideal client Is we talk about it when we talk about doing interviews. When I teach people about interviews, it's a lot less about what you do when you're sitting in front of somebody, because then you just shut your mouth. Listen. Oh. It's mostly the prep work before, and they're all about boundaries. What clients work for you? How many nights a week work for you? Where do you want to work? How do you want to be treated? What? Enjoy doing.

[Darcy]

All right, so let's just dive right in, because this was the real reason I wanted you on the podcast you shared with us, that you clients have to apply essentially to work with you and your agency.

[Allison Coleman]

Yeah.

[Darcy]

Now, I, I, we were in the birth worker retreat in a room full of people, live in person, and I could see doula's heads exploding.

[Allison Coleman]

Like, what you really out of the box. But it's really healthy.

[Darcy]

It is. So can you just tell us everything? So how did this.

[Allison Coleman]

I ran my agency pretty traditionally, up until a couple years ago.

[Darcy]

Mm.

[Allison Coleman]

Clients would reach out, they'd say, oh, I need a postpartum doula. And I had a team of five. I run a team of five to 10 doulas, depending on who's available. Oh. So I would go to my doulas and say, hey, do we have anybody to cover this? And I got small enough inquiries that I could cover them.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

That model worked for a long time. Then we had an explosion of agencies in Austin, a big city. There's a lot of doulas and there's a lot of great agencies. There's a lot of competition. Like I said, I like competition because I think it's healthy as long as it's done kindly. But there was a lot of work, too, because there's 2 million people in that area. There's 14 where people have babies. Wow. And so at some point, I realized I either needed to take more clients and bring in more doulas, which also meant that I lost more personal involvement with my clients, which I really enjoy, even if I'm not the person in their home. I'm reading their notes, I'm talking to their doula in their home. I'm talking to the client. I'm available for everybody. And I like that. I thrive that.

[Darcy]

And P.S. like you do that now from North Carolina, you're in Asheville, and you're still running your agency in Austin this way with a very high, high touch, high level of your personality.

[Allison Coleman]

Biggest difference is, if somebody gets sick, I can't cover them. But that happened sometimes, even when I was In Austin.

[Darcy]

Oh.

[Allison Coleman]

So I realized I either needed to take on a lot more doulas and change the way I did my business that way, or I needed to raise my rates, have a small team of doulas be very picky about what clients I took. And so that's the route I decided to go.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

And the only drawback I have found my doulas love it because they get really good work situations.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

They know I set them up from day one with the client to have the client understand I value the doulas just as much as I do the clients, which.

[Darcy]

That right there is an amazing. Like. I don't know if you'd call it a boundary or what, but it just a precedent to set with your clients from the doulas.

[Allison Coleman]

Feel so safe working for my agency. The only drawback is some doulas don't like how I do a longer onboarding. So with standard doula work, if somebody reaches out, they say, hey, we want a doula. The doula agency says, that's great. Let me get you a contract. Together they work up the contract. They go out either to their team or to the doula world in general and say, I need coverage for a due date. This time at this location. Who's available? And they just piece them together and hand off the client. And it's quick. Mine is a little slower because clients reach out to me. They say, hey, I want a doula. I send them an email that has a sample of my contract. I did learn if you send out a sample of your contract, you have to watermark it with really big sample across it. Yep. Will send it back signed. And you talk to them yet an explanation of what daytime doulas do. Overnight doulas do some testimonials. And in the email, I spell out our prices and what our process is. And I charge $60 an hour. So it's not cheap.

[Darcy]

How is that compared to other Austin agencies?

[Allison Coleman]

They're getting better. When I first did it, I was $10 more than anybody else.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Now. And that was two years ago. And I haven't raised the prices there yet. Now other doulas are beginning to inch up. There are several doulas that charge between 45 and 55, which I think is great, Especially ones that trained with me 10 years ago. You really should be charging more. So. So they're getting up there. I love that. And you gotta make money to be sustainable also.

[Darcy]

Right. Right.

[Allison Coleman]

Or supporting your people. So they apply us. In the email, I tell them the next step if you want to move forward is we have a mutual interview to talk about what at your. For the agency.

[Darcy]

And that's the part right there that I just. I love because I can imagine clients going, wait, what?

[Allison Coleman]

And. And I've gotten that a couple of times. And when I do, because I. Most of my clients in Austin are very high net worth. I'm telling them they have to qualify for anything. That's not true of everybody, but I do. And. And I work with some amazing families and some amazing clients. But I have had a couple of people say, I'm looking at paying your agency $20,000. What do you mean I have to qualify? Yeah, I'm like, it just means that I need to enjoy working with you. That you need to enjoy working with the doulas. That the doulas that pick you as a family need to enjoy working with you so that by the time your baby gets here, everybody is on board to really create this fabulous circle of care around you. And what client's gonna. Most families go, oh, that's amazing.

[Darcy]

Right?

[Allison Coleman]

Because once I describe why I do it, they're like, yeah, that's what I want to. I've had one or two people who have said, I don't. I still don't get why I have to do that. And I say, that's okay. You don't have to. There's some other great agencies in Austin. Would you like me to give you some names?

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Because I'm happy to pass them off to somebody else if it's not a good fit for me. I don't want them as clients. Another boundary thing.

[Darcy]

Yes. But I think that's. That, for instance, is a boundary that I came by the hard way. Like, I just said yes to everybody. Right.

[Allison Coleman]

You start making money. So you're doing this heart centered work that just makes you leave feeling so full of love. You're getting a paycheck and can make good money, which, you know, can be a tempting thing to just go, oh, yeah, I need more.

[Darcy]

And yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Oh, but a couple of bad clients. And they're not bad people.

[Darcy]

Bad, bad fit. Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Oh, definitely.

[Darcy]

Yeah. I would work.

[Allison Coleman]

Don't have to do that to learn.

[Darcy]

It, you know, I love that so much. Okay, so then you tell them they have to apply, and then you have the mutual meeting.

[Allison Coleman]

So we have an interview. I talk to them at the end of it, I. And in our interview, I do a lot more listening than I do talking. But I set some ground rules. I spell out what everybody does. If anybody's Working overnight. I want to know where's the baby's room versus the parents room. Especially if they're breastfeeding. I don't want anybody going up and down stairs in the middle of the night when they're doing it every two hours.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

I tell them they need a sleeping space. We only do. We only. We don't do a weight care. I mean, some of my parents do stay awake, but that's their choice. We don't set it up that way.

[Darcy]

And now are the. Is this just you and the parents or you have some of the doulas?

[Allison Coleman]

It's just me and the parents. Okay. Because I, I do this initially because before I send any of the doulas that work with me in their home.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Before I even have them talk with me, I want to make sure one, I feel safe sending, you know, a doula into their home. I want to make sure that I talk to them well enough that I know what doula to match up with them.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Really good at matching people. I think I've had to switch out three people in 10 years.

[Darcy]

It's amazing.

[Allison Coleman]

And one of them was like a really experienced doula. It just wasn't a personality fit.

[Darcy]

What are some red flags that would come up in this interview where you'd say to yourself, like, okay, these people are not accepted?

[Allison Coleman]

One, I really want to work with clients who want to be taken care of and coached in their parenting. So if I have somebody who says, I really just want to hand off the baby, have them bottle fed through the night, and I'm going to go to sleep, then I will explain what a doula does, how we support the whole family, how we are not just about the baby, we're about helping that transition. And I will say it's okay if you want to sleep all night, particularly if you're bottle feeding, but as a doula, I'm going to need 30 minutes at the start of every night so that we can talk. I can get an idea of how you're adjusting as family. I can get an idea of where you're at with postpartum mood disorders or anxiety. We can answer any questions. We can do our job as dualists.

[Darcy]

That's such a great example. I just want to pause you, please. That's such a great example of like setting a boundary. I wouldn't even call it a boundary. Setting expectations in advance. Cause this is a thing I see in the doula groups like my client. The baby's having all these problems, but the client's asleep. When I get there and we never have time to talk, but when you set your work up like this, that hey, if you're going to sleep, we have to have this meeting before it. It's just amazing.

[Allison Coleman]

And it allows me to do my job the way I want to and for the doulas that represent me to do it the way I want our clients taken care of. And I don't think it's bad.

[Darcy]

No.

[Allison Coleman]

Just hand off your baby to. But that's not my agency.

[Darcy]

And here's another thing. I think as doulas as anyone selling anything, when you're new to quote unquote, selling, it's very easy to be just be like, oh yes, I'll just say yes. Whatever the client, the customer's already right, I'll just say yes, wouldn't it? And but yes. So this is. Wait, no, here's what the role of a doula is and here's how we do things. And like you said it, once you explain that to parents, they're like, oh, that is amazing.

[Allison Coleman]

And if they don't, then I will tell them maybe what you need is a newborn care specialist.

[Darcy]

Uh huh.

[Allison Coleman]

They're highly trained, they're nurturing, they're good at what they do. It won't cost a whole lot different, but it may be a better fit for your family. I'll refer them out.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Because I do that a lot. So we go through all of that and I say, if you want to move forward, the next step is I will send you the bios and phone numbers of a couple of doulas that I'd like you to meet. You'll reach out to them, you can talk on the phone. Some of them want to meet in person. Y'all figure that out among yourselves. Those doulas will call me and let me know if they feel like you're a great fit for them and they want to move forward. I need you to reach out and tell me if you feel like they're a great fit for your family and if you want to move forward and then let me know how many hours, how many or how many days a week, how many weeks you want to do and we'll go from there.

[Darcy]

So just from listening to you say that, I can tell you've gone through this spiel a million times. And I think it's so fascinating because again, you're saying that with such confidence. Here's the structure of how we do things. Here are the five next steps. Here's how it's all gonna go. Down, I think subconsciously a new parent who's about to have a baby who has no idea what's going on. That clarity and confidence must be, in a way a selling point to them.

[Allison Coleman]

Like it makes them feel really secure. They know I can take care of them.

[Darcy]

Yes.

[Allison Coleman]

And they know that I'm going to be involved even though I'm not the person in their home.

[Darcy]

Right. And that you have this structure in place and it's a well oiled machine and you know what you're doing versus a doula. Imagine saying, oh, whatever you want. Okay, we, we could do this or we could do that or I don't know, you tell me.

[Allison Coleman]

And I do a lot of structuring the care around what each family needs, but the container is very structured in terms of how I offer it, which is genius.

[Darcy]

It's so good.

[Allison Coleman]

That's great. Flow easier. I know what our onboarding process is. I know that I'm going to invoice them each week. I know that they need to pay within three days. Being I do a contract. I think every doula needs a contract.

[Darcy]

Yes.

[Allison Coleman]

But that spells out how long we're going to be in their home. Clients will extend, but it's still within a certain structure. I also tell them that because my doulas are independent contractors, that all scheduling will be worked out with the doula. All of the doulas that work for me train with me. I don't hire anybody that doesn't go through my training. If I find somebody I just love who's trained by an organization, I go to them and say, oh, I'd really love you to come work with Austin baby Guru. I will comp you into my training. Yeah. You have to get to this point before we actually schedule you. And that way my clients know everybody has the same framework for their training. Oh, they. All my clients know and all my doulas know. They text me all the time to ask me questions.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

So I'm probably a little too liberal about that. I don't have a lot of boundaries around how much I mentor my doulas or when. But I'm single. Well, but children and I work overnight. You don't care. I like it.

[Darcy]

And you're also though, you have built this into how you're paid as the agency owner, so you're being compensated for it. This is back to like when we're working for clients we love. Like, I don't want. It's like a surprise when I get paid, but when I'm not loving the Client even getting paid. I'm like, oh, God. So. But doulas. Well, you pay yourself well for running the agency, which may. You know, so that. And that's.

[Allison Coleman]

I think we. I think. I think it was in one of our. In one of our. What do you call it?

[Darcy]

Oh, office hours for my doula village.

[Allison Coleman]

Sorry, puppy. Oh, yes. In one of the office hours, I think it came up how we structure pay. Hmm. I. So I charge my clients a set amount. All of my doulas know what I charge. I don't care. I pay them a set amount. Oh, I paid them 40%. Then the other 60%, right? No, I paid them 60%. The other 50 is divided between me and the agency. So the company gets half of it. Allison gets half of it.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Because I work a lot for them. And all those that enjoy working with my agency, they know I do a lot for them. And when they want to take clients on their own, which they're all independent contractors, so they do. Most of them do. Some of them don't. But the. When they take clients on their own, I tell them, charge more because you're doing more, Right?

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Every once in a while, I'll have a doula who'll say, I think you ought to pay me more. And I say, that's great. This is what I offer.

[Darcy]

This is, here's the container.

[Allison Coleman]

And I, again, I do it a little differently. I pay. Everybody that contracts with me gets paid the same. I don't care if they've been working a year or 10 years, because if they're good enough that I'm sending them to my clients, they're good enough to get paid what I pay, and I pay what I feel like I can afford to pay within my company. But at the same time, they'll say, yeah, but the market's great in Austin. And it is. They'll be like, I can charge more on my own. I'm like, you should.

[Darcy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

On your own. Charge more because you're finding your own clients.

[Darcy]

You're right.

[Allison Coleman]

Problems and problems do come up occasionally. The last year, we had a client who had her twins four months early. That a lovely family. But that was a lot of work on that contract because we so them for five months while they were in nicu, even though we didn't go. Yeah, I sent them books about doing nicu. I checked in with them each week by text. We set up a meal train. They had a toddler. There was, like, lots of extra support. That wasn't worked into the contract.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

Had to totally switch out their doula team because they came home.

[Darcy]

The timing.

[Allison Coleman]

They. Yeah. They came home with their babies at what would have been the end of their contract. So these doulas were already contracted out with somebody else. At one point, one of their doulas had an issue and, like, a personal issue and had to step out, and we had to pull in somebody else. So it's. There's a lot of work in running the agency.

[Darcy]

Yes.

[Allison Coleman]

And taking care of any problems that come up. Most of our clients are easy, and there's not any problems. And my doulas are great. But things do happen.

[Darcy]

Oh, I just was thinking about this. We. My agency. I was. This week, two families hired us. Like, babies were here, and it was so much work to, like, juggle schedules and fit them in and. Anyway.

[Allison Coleman]

Right. So do you get sick?

[Darcy]

Oh.

[Allison Coleman]

Take care of your doula that works with you, your contractor. You've gotta be able to honor that. One of the things that. One of the things that the doulas that work with me tell me is boundaries. Thing is the hardest part about working with me.

[Darcy]

Ah, how so?

[Allison Coleman]

Wait, when I hire them, I tell them. And I learned to just. I didn't realize it at first until I had a couple of my really trusted doulas come back and go, hey, Allison, this is really hard about you. And so now I just tell them upfront when I onboard them. I say, I've been told the hardest thing about working with me is that I expect everything. Everyone. I give everything I want, everything. And your job is to figure out what your boundaries are and to tell me, and I will respect them. But I am not parenting seven to ten doulas. I've already raised my children, so I'm not figuring out your boundaries for you. I need you to tell me. And that means I'm asking them to do something that's really hard for. Hard.

[Darcy]

I was just gonna say. What's their initial reaction?

[Allison Coleman]

Their initial reaction is, oh, yeah, of course, I could do that. And then we have two or three times where they don't. And they get a little resentful that. Yeah. But I missed my daughter's birthday because I was scheduled to work or whatever, and eventually they come to me and I say, I get it.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

And the thing is, I don't know. It's your daughter's birthday, and if you come to me and say, my kid needs me, they're having a hard day. It's their birthday, they're sick, I have an appointment. I don't Care what it is. Come to me and say, I need to not work for this. I'm gonna honor that.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

It's not like I'm gonna force you to work if you do it all the time. I may not offer you as much work, but. Because we have to be realistic.

[Darcy]

But. Oh, exactly.

[Allison Coleman]

Also, I want you to feel taken care of. I want you to know it's okay with me if your family comes first. Your family should come first.

[Darcy]

Right? That's a pretty. Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

But it's not my job to figure out what you need in order for that to happen.

[Darcy]

That's your job and what your family needs. Yes.

[Allison Coleman]

I've heard it as boundaries. I tell them, you need to figure out what your boundaries are and tell me. And I'm a loud, powerful person. Sometimes that's scary.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

He's really nice. Maybe not nice. I'm really kind.

[Darcy]

You're a very nice person.

[Allison Coleman]

I always think the difference between nice and kind.

[Darcy]

Oh.

[Allison Coleman]

Comes from your heart. Nice comes from wanting to make it work for other people. I am much more about what comes from internally good ethics. And I'm a kind person and I'm nurturing. But I know I can be loud and intimidating to people. Sometimes I think, you know what?

[Darcy]

I've been around you enough. I don't know. I wouldn't say you're loud and intimidating. I think you're. Here's what it is. You're. You have good boundaries, and that's rare among women.

[Allison Coleman]

Yeah.

[Darcy]

If we were men having this conversation like it, we wouldn't even have in this conversation.

[Allison Coleman]

And confident.

[Darcy]

Right. We'd be like, oh, Al Coleman, he's a great businessman.

[Allison Coleman]

Because I am not immune to that same social stigma that we. That message that we get all the time. I get the same thing. I just carry it quite as much as other people.

[Darcy]

Yeah. And like you said, that makes that. So how long have you been a doula?

[Allison Coleman]

I've done work with families for 26 years.

[Darcy]

Okay. So not a lot of people can say that because they've burnt out and have.

[Allison Coleman]

Yeah. Two to five years. That's the average rate of burnout.

[Darcy]

And I would argue out of my.

[Allison Coleman]

Students, I have a lot of students that have been doing it for eight plus years. Makes me really proud of, like, how I've been able to help them step into that sustainability.

[Darcy]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Via boundaries. I think you. You were saying you teach that in your training. And I love also this idea that obviously not everybody but some of the doulas who go through Your training come to your agency and it's like continued.

[Allison Coleman]

Mentorship and definitely not everybody.

[Darcy]

Right.

[Allison Coleman]

Over the years, I have hired maybe 20 of my students. Not all of them stay. People move on to other things. Several people that have worked for me then became very successful independently. And they have no time for me, which I'm really happy for them and sad for me.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

So I've hired maybe 20, 21 of my students. I think I've trained 300.

[Darcy]

Wow. So how often do you run trainings?

[Allison Coleman]

I run an evergreen training, so anybody can sign up anytime to do the online training.

[Darcy]

Okay.

[Allison Coleman]

I do in person workshops and they do a two day workshop. We cover the first four modules. There's 10 modules altogether. They leave the training ready to work as a doula. And then because we cover working as a doula, family's home, a little bit of the business stuff. Although there's a lot more online. Infant safety, newborn care, and infant feeding. Those are what we cover in our workshop. So they leave ready to work.

[Darcy]

Right.

[Allison Coleman]

And to finish the actual certification, they finish out the other modules online.

[Darcy]

Oh, and will you say the website again where people can find that?

[Allison Coleman]

It's a B G dual training. Com.

[Darcy]

Awesome. And I. That's such a cool way to do it. I love that you have. And when you do them in person, are they in Austin or do you travel around?

[Allison Coleman]

I'll travel around. This year so far, I have one scheduled March 1st and 2nd in Austin. I have one May 10th and 11th in Asheville. And then I have one in Richmond, Virginia. May 15th and 16th, I believe.

[Darcy]

Awesome.

[Allison Coleman]

Thursday and Friday. Yes.

[Darcy]

Yeah. Ah, that's so good. So last question is, can you, off the top of your head, think of a doula who's worked for you, who's come a long way with boundaries because of this model or like, any.

[Allison Coleman]

Just several. Oh, probably the most well known is Kristen Lucas. Oh.

[Darcy]

Oh, I didn't mean names.

[Allison Coleman]

Oh. I don't mind saying.

[Darcy]

She's amazing. She is amazing, actually.

[Allison Coleman]

She's amazing. And not just about boundaries. I think she had pretty good boundaries in the beginning, but she's definitely learned how to put them in place in order to grow this fabulous business.

[Darcy]

Awesome. That's so cool. It's so cool. I think I just. I don't. I love this whole idea that in addition to offering exceptional care, you're modeling for these families, modeling for the doulas who work for you, how to have exquisite boundaries. And I think that just makes a big difference for everybody. And it's really cool.

[Allison Coleman]

And I want to see them all be successful. We all want our clients to be successful in parenting.

[Darcy]

Right.

[Allison Coleman]

But I also want the doulas that work with me and just the duals that train with me. Successful.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

I think one of my big guiding things really is the more of us that do a great job, the more work there is.

[Darcy]

Oh, yeah. And that you can be. Yeah. And I love what you said about having good boundaries as a heart centered business owner. Like, you can be firm, you can be clear, you can have these boundaries and still lead with your heart and still offer caring, compassionate. It's not. I think a lot of people think it's mutually exclusive, but it's not.

[Allison Coleman]

Boundaries doesn't have to be mean. I mean, boundaries are about charging what you need in order to pay your bills and have a little extra. Boundaries are about working the right number of hours that works for your family and for your body and for your soul. Yeah. You feel like your work is sucking the life out of you. You don't stay sustainable boundaries and you.

[Darcy]

Don'T do a good job.

[Allison Coleman]

Boundaries are about picking the clients that you really want to work with. I won't work with clients that partners are aggressive sounding or rude to their partners in our interview because I know I'm not going to do well in that environment. And I don't want to put any of my doulas in that environment. Oh.

[Darcy]

Classic scenario of a contract. A six week, eight week contract. That will be so uncomfortable.

[Allison Coleman]

Yes.

[Darcy]

For everyone.

[Allison Coleman]

Yeah. I. In all the years I've done this, I've broken one contract ever.

[Darcy]

Oh, wow.

[Allison Coleman]

And it was somebody that I did not interview with. I didn't pick them as a client. Shifted this model and I was just filling in. My agency was filling in a couple of days on their duelist contract and that was the last time I ever agreed to fill in without going through my own own onboarding process.

[Darcy]

Amazing.

[Allison Coleman]

Because I skipped really honoring what I needed to do in order to know that I knew the family well enough. As much as you can know somebody and talking to them for 40 minutes.

[Darcy]

But you can get a really good.

[Allison Coleman]

Idea for who they are. Yeah.

[Darcy]

Yeah. And trusting your gut is another.

[Allison Coleman]

So I support stepping out of a contract if you don't feel safe, if you don't, if it's really killing.

[Darcy]

Yeah.

[Allison Coleman]

But it does impact your reputation as a doula. It impacts the family because like I said, it's probably not bad. They're just not a good fit and they deserve to have a good cohesive care team. So Having those boundaries in the first place keeps you out of that situation 100%. Boundaries can be applied to so many small things that keep you sustainable.

[Darcy]

Yeah. And I feel like me personally, the more I got good at setting boundaries, the more I do it, and it's. It's upward cycle of success. So, Allison, thank you so much for taking this time.

[Allison Coleman]

I'm glad you had me on here.

[Darcy]

I am, too. I just. I heard you talking about your onboarding. I heard you talking about your onboarding process, and I just. I was like, more doulas need to hear this, because it's a really. Whether you take it and go with it or just learn from it. And I just think it's a really great perspective that we can all learn from.

[Allison Coleman]

And when we were at a doula retreat, I know one of our circles, we were talking with somebody who was exploring the idea of having an agency. And I kept saying, because this is what I think everybody needs to hear is your agency doesn't have to look like everybody else's.

[Darcy]

Right.

[Allison Coleman]

I think I said that to four different people at four different times during that retreat, and there were all people who were considering having an agency overwhelmed with the idea. Yeah, it's. If what's overwhelming you is this image you have in your head of how somebody else does it, don't do it that way.

[Darcy]

And same for just your doula business in general, agency or not, you can run it. I say that over and over. You can do whatever you want. You can run it however you want.

[Allison Coleman]

And a job, you know, you're in charge of, oh, it's the best.

[Darcy]

You can set it up to serve you and not drain you.

[Allison Coleman]

Absolutely. And then you have more to give to your clients.

[Darcy]

Oh, absolutely. Oh, my gosh, Alison, thank you so much. I will put the links to your website in the show notes. And how. How can people find you maybe on Instagram if they want to connect? ABG doula.

[Allison Coleman]

Oh, I have to look. It's one of those stupid things that when I did it, I had to put, like, the underscore. So for my family services, it's Babyguru Doula. And for my doula training, it's abgpp Doula underscore training.

[Darcy]

Awesome. Thank you again for your time.

[Allison Coleman]

Thank you, Darcy.

[Darcy]

Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the Dula Darcy podcast. I hope you found this episode valuable, and I'd love for you to join me on the next one. Let's keep the conversation going. Shoot me a DM on Instagram. Thedula Darcy or join my free Facebook community, the Doula Marketing Group, where we dive deeper into growing your doula business. If you enjoyed the episode, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your favorite platform. Your Feedback Feedback will help more doulas discover the show, which in turn helps more families find the doula support that they need. And I believe that that is how we save the world.