← The Doula Darcy Podcast
The Doula Darcy Podcast
Starting a Doula Agency with Jodi Congdon
00:42:44
Doula Agency Success: Insights and Strategies from Two Doula Agency Owners If starting a doula agency is on your radar - you do not want to miss this episode! In this episode of the Doula Darcy podcast, host Darcy, an experienced doula business coach...
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- [00:04]
Darcy
Welcome to the Doula Darcy Podcast. I'm your host, Darcy, a business coach for doulas, and I love helping my fellow doulas master the art of marketing so that they can grow their businesses and help more families. On the podcast, I combine my decade of experience in Advertising with 14 years as a doula to empower other doulas with the marketing strategies and mindset shifts they need to attract more clients and create successful, fulfilling doula careers. Whether you're just starting out as a doula or you're looking to take your doula business to the next level, you're in the right place. Let's go.
- [00:46]
Jodi
Well, hello, hello and welcome to a new episode of the Doula Darcy podcast. This episode brought to you by the birth worker Retreat. I have my friend Jodi Condon here of Hip to Heart, and she is is one of my co leaders. Creators.
- [01:05]
Jodi Condon
Hostesses.
- [01:06]
Jodi
Hostesses, yes, of the birth worker retreat. And we joke, but we made it because we're both here from New England and we need a business reason to go to Florida in January. So we got together with Caitlyn of BE her village and we put on the birth worker retreat. So you all should come join us there. In Clearwater, Florida, January 13th through 15th at the Wyndham Grand Hotel. Save $100 with coupon code retreat100@thebirthworkerretreat.com you can see all the details, but I will be there. Jody, who you're about to hear from, will be there. It's always a good time. Jodi, what was your favorite part of the birth worker retreat last year?
- [01:53]
Jodi Condon
My favorite part. This is nerdy, but I love going into, like, events like this where everyone gets into, like, the room with the keynote, like, and everyone sits down and, like, chats with the person at the table with them, gets out their notebooks. I don't know why I loved that. I love. I don't know why I love that, but I love that. That was one of my favorite parts. My other favorite part was we did hot seat coaching and just. I love. Because we don't know ahead of time what people are gonna ask, and I love just hearing, like, the random questions and then, like, we're answering, but then, like, everyone else is like, oh, I thought that, or. So it's like this. It's one person asking one question, but everyone else is getting their answer too.
- [02:37]
Jodi
Yeah.
- [02:38]
Jodi Condon
And then there was, like, the good food, the good drinks, like, random lobby meetups where we didn't plan these things, but, like, we saw two people Sitting. And then two more people sitting. And then, like, someone who wasn't facing us, like, came over and was like, I didn't realize you were sitting here. So, yeah, no, just the engagement. It's like the life face to face engagement, which that was. You asked me for one thing. That was like 40 things.
- [03:00]
Jodi
Those are seven favorite things.
- [03:02]
Jodi Condon
I mean, that's 10 things about the birth worker retreat are.
- [03:05]
Jodi
I think it's. I love that you said that about the conference, like, sitting down and learning, because I think this is why conferences were created, for the chance to sit down and learn, but then also to network and just be with the people. And I went to so many. In my advertising agency days and, like, online marketing days, I went to so many boring trade and conferences that were just like, yes, I got a free trip to New York City or something and a free hotel.
- [03:35]
Jodi Condon
Like, obligation.
- [03:37]
Jodi
Yes. And this birth worker retreat, you want to be here? I wanted to be there. Right. You couldn't shut me up. I couldn't. You could. I loved it. So I'm excited to do it all again. So I can't wait. So everybody check it out@thebirthworkerretreat.com use that retreat 100 coupon code right now, and you'll save a hundred dollars. But today, Jodi, I have you here to talk about starting a doula agencies. So Jody is the owner of Hip to Heart. You live in. Outside of Foxborough, Massachusetts, which is.
- [04:11]
Jodi Condon
I live just south of Boston. Yep.
- [04:13]
Jodi
Yeah. So near Boston. So I feel like when I think of our agencies, I feel like you have the big city agency, I have the smaller country agencies. Yeah, that's how I think of it in my head. But it. It really has nothing to do with city or country. But I have a smaller agency, you have a bigger agency. So I thought it would be neat to just share our different experiences and our different methodologies is the word. But let's start with why. What made you start an agency? What was how and how long were you and actually, I don't know the answer to this. How long were you a solo doula before you.
- [04:59]
Jodi Condon
Like, eight years. Okay, so a long time. So I thought about it, like a year before I actually started it. And I actually started it for two reasons. One, when I met my husband, I told him what I did, and then I just kept talking because that's what I do. He was like, interesting. That sounds like it could be like another side business. You take your clients and then giving out clients to other doulas because you're busy. That could be like a whole separate thing. And I was like, no, I would never charge for that. That's not a business. That's like whatever. Out of the goodness of my heart. That's just what we do. And then in the fall of 2014, my dad was diagnosed with stage four cancer. I got engaged. We planned a wedding super quick. So like crunch time wedding planning. I got married in March of 2015. My dad died in May of 2015. I got pregnant with my middle daughter. A year later got pregnant with my third daughter. So it was like this. I was just a barrage of like life emotions. Yes. And I was like, I can barely like care for myself. Never mind like going to someone else's house and caring for them. And of course, even if you broke a leg, still come in. Like, you don't. It doesn't stop just because you aren't taking clients. And the clients, it's almost like they came in fast and furious because you know how like Murphy's Law, like when you are busy for a minute, you get 52 phone calls. I'm also a postpartum doula trainer. So I started reaching for people who I recently trained and people who were in my past trainings. And it just started as a business and I got my shit together. I don't know if I can say those words on your podcast. Okay, come on. Shit together. And I really started making it like a formal thing and I needed the revenue coming in. Especially the months leading up to my dad passing away. I really wanted to spend every moment with him. He was like a huge part of like my wedding plan. I let him just plan the whole thing. I was just like you. Whatever you envision in your head for this to be like, you let it be. I know, it was like amazing. It was amazing. But I just wanted to be like home with him. So I just. The time that we were together, I would be on my phone texting and matching and doing all the things. And then like in the evenings I would do like the zoom calls. And it took me probably two years to really get my systems down, get organized, get the right contracts, the right formalities. And then it just took off. It was like this well oiled machine. We have almost 50 contracted doulas right now. And it helps that I train them because I pick the shining stars out of my trainings and I hope that they can. I can cultivate them to eventually go off and do their own thing, but in the meantime, take clients on my behalf. But yeah, it just happened a Little bit by accident. But I also think it would have happened had those events not occurred all in the same time frame. I have. I definitely have a business mind. You know, that you and I are always opportunities.
- [07:47]
Jodi
But I was going to say that you say it just happened. You a very strategic thinker. Like, you guided it to success. And now. So how many years have you been functioning as this agency?
- [08:05]
Jodi Condon
So I think, like, at this level.
- [08:07]
Jodi
Where you have dozens, this level, probably.
- [08:10]
Jodi Condon
The last five years, it's been pretty steady. And it's funny because even with 50, almost 50 doulas, like, there are clients who call us, and I just don't have anyone. And I'm not even exaggerating. Like, I don't have anyone. It's such a doula market right now, and I'm uninterested in growing at this point. I do have other parts of my business that I'm really focused on, but if the right person comes along, I bring them on. It's not a warm body. It's not for the numbers. I would rather say no to a prospective client than have someone that I'm unsure about take care of them. So it's like my entire team, for the most part, I've trained. I feel like we have a handful of people that were referrals from doulas that I've trained. But other than that, like, it's fairly exclusive in that way. And I'm not using the word exclusive in a way that fancy, but I keep it pretty tight. And I think clients love that.
- [09:04]
Jodi
Yeah.
- [09:05]
Jodi Condon
Try to tell them that it's all about quality. I am not interested in making a dollar just to get someone in there. And I think they. They value that and they trust that well.
- [09:17]
Jodi
And it's been working for five years, and you're only growing. So my whole point in asking you that was that you're obviously doing something right. You're not just winging it, and it's not just happening. You need. You have to be. Whenever anybody asks me about owning an agency, I always say you have to be organized. You have to. Because there's a lot of moving parts to manage. And I am so impressed that you have 50 doulas. I have only, at the most, had seven, I think, and that was a little nuts.
- [09:51]
Jodi Condon
It's funny, but I know the days that I'm unorganized some, I feel like something's, like, off or whatever. Like, I know. And then, like, we were just talking.
- [09:59]
Jodi
About, like, the day is getting ahead of you.
- [10:01]
Jodi Condon
Yes.
- [10:01]
Jodi
Like, you're playing Catch up. So my agency right now, I only have two or three doulas working for me, and for me, that's perfect. And I was the same as you in that. Not really, like, life occurrences, but I just was working as a doula by myself. Postpartum doula. And getting to the point where there were no more hours in the day. I was only. Every week I had a certain amount I could earn because there were no more hours. I was willing to be away from kids, frankly. But I could. I remember just thinking, oh, if I could do overnights and these day shifts, like, I'd be making a ton of money. But, oh, I'd be sick. I'd be miserable. Like, it was physically impossible.
- [10:51]
Jodi Condon
But be mad at you like, your family would be mad at you. And that's not worth anything. I mean, that is not worth any amount of money. I think the way that you and I work is we realize there's a cap on this.
- [11:05]
Jodi
Yes.
- [11:06]
Jodi Condon
Creatively figure out how we can, you know, bust through that glass ceiling, still only work the hours that we want to work, not sacrifice family stuff. But, like, I'm not gonna lie, you know, I know a lot of people are not in this for the money. And, you know, if I wanted to get rich quick, I'd be in finance or whatever. But, like, it's a very lucrative industry. And I think people don't realize that there's a lot of money to be made. And I'm not trying to buy a Range Rover. But, like how you posted today that you like to ski on a Wednesday because there's no lines. I like to not ski on a Wednesday. I like to do other things on a Wednesday because nobody else is doing them. Everyone's working. And like, that to me is. I like the freedom to choose what I want to do when I want to do it. And when everyone is out on Saturday and Sunday, I'm home snuggling your kids.
- [11:54]
Jodi
Yeah. That's the real. We were talking about this in my doula village. Like, we're not chasing money. We're ch. Freedom. But money's nice, and money is what gives you freedom. And back to my decision to start an agency. I, like you said, I was reaching that glass ceiling. I couldn't earn anymore. Just me, by myself. And I was still getting inquiries that I had to say no to. And I was at this point, like, five, six years into my doula business, and I felt I'm happy to pass them along to my doula friends. But also, I was like, I worked really hard to get to this point. Point where I'm. My company is getting these inquiries, like, I. I deserve to be compensated for that.
- [12:38]
Jodi Condon
That's your reputation. And the other thing is, here's the thing about giving away inquiries or giving away prospective clients. It's not just the money that you're losing out for that particular client, because that stinks, right? We don't want to lose that money, but it's that client is then going to tell their co workers and their friends. So that is like future opportunities for you. So when you that away, that is future opportunities for somebody else. So you want to keep it in the family. You want to be able to, like, have someone care for them, but you want to keep it within your own business. Because just like you said, you work hard for that reputation, right? Like, it's not easy being connected to every client and being the face and the personality and being on all the time.
- [13:20]
Jodi
It's not easy. Let's just be frank. It's not easy to get your doula business to that point where you're five, six, eight years in, like you were and I was where you're still going and you're thriving. And so I think everybody asked me, like, when should I start an agency? And I think that is the moment when you're getting so many inquiries that you can't handle them. And I think other people aren't talking about it. They're like, oh, just move to a city and start a dual agency. Sure, you could do that. But you know me, I'm all about the marketing. You have to have that marketing, in effect, that reputation that is feeding a solid funnel of clients coming in. And it's when you're at the point where you physically can't provide the service anymore. So I brought in one doula. I eased into the agency thing so slowly because I was just so nervous. But also, I think I live in a. I don't live in Boston. It wasn't like I brought in a doula. And then we were suddenly inundated and couldn't handle it. Like, if she could handle everything. And the magic thing that happened that I had been afraid of for years was, first of all, I brought her in. She was awesome. She did not drag my name through the mud or ruin my reputation. She was. She's amazing. And she's still working for me. Erica. Shout out to Erica. I found I could actually say yes to more clients because now she was like, in essence. Also my backup. I used to have to sit when you're A solo doula. I used to have to say no to a client if they were due in June. And I knew I wanted to take a week long vacation at the end of June with my kids. So I, it's like I had to say no to clients six weeks around that week of vacation. And then once Erica was there, I could just say on the interviews, yes, I can take your May due date. But just know Erica might have to pop in for a couple of those visits while I go to the lake. And it was amazing how much more I started working because I didn't just say no. So I think that it was like this other and how much more I could take a vacation or a thing.
- [15:35]
Jodi Condon
It's beneficial, like all around. Agency benefits, your clients, your community, the doulas in your community, you, your family. It really is, if done, it can be a wonderful thing. And I think too most people start agencies when they're like inundated with clients and they're like, oh, I like, this is crazy. Like, I'm saying no all the time. And there's very few people who will enter my program when they're not quite there yet. But they see themselves because they're afraid if they get there and they make the move, then they're going to be too inundated with things to take a step back and really start planning the growth. So they, they're not quite crazy busy yet, but they know they're going to get there and they're willing to invest in their future selves to start planting the agency seeds now. So I feel like that's the smartest way. But that's not how any of us really operate. Only when we're in the weeds are we like, oh my gosh, like, we need to do that.
- [16:30]
Jodi
I need help. Yeah, but I love that, like planning on the future and betting on yourself, that's like, all right, I'm not this busy now, but I know I'm gonna get there. I love that, love that attitude. Okay, so part, so last year I, so I, over the years slowly grew from just Eric and I to a handful of doulas. And then last year we were, we were just slamming busy. I had seven or eight doulas and it was like for my nervous system, I was like, this is enough. I'm reaching my limit. What is your favorite like, system or thing that you have done that makes it easier to manage a team?
- [17:15]
Jodi Condon
It's funny because you say it kills your nervous system. I, like, I, I never outwardly get overwhelmed. It's Funny people are like, are you alive? Do you have any feelings at all in there? But I just, I don't know, like, I just full throttle is my mode or nothing. I don't know. But I honestly think what keeps this easy for me And I'm in this doula agency owners group on Facebook and people are constantly like, this headache happened and I had to put out this fire. And it's always something. And I'm like, either I'm doing something super wrong because I don't have those headaches. Am I missing something? Or I'm just doing it super right. Because either way, I don't have any of those headaches. And I think like a few things. I connect with every client. I'm super transparent. I get to know them very personally before I make the match. It's not just a scheduling thing. Like, I really get to know them. I also make it a point to really get to know the doulas that I contract with. So, like, I know matching them with clients, like, what's going to work, what's not, if they want to take time off or if they have family stuff, whatever. I make sure the clients know that if something comes up, like, you will have someone fill in. So the doula never feels, oh my God, like I can't get there tonight. Jodi's going to be upset or the client's going to be upset. So I feel like it's a lot of transparency and I just, I manage expectations. Like I set expectations to where everyone knows what they're supposed to be doing.
- [18:46]
Jodi
There's just, I think that is huge.
- [18:49]
Jodi Condon
Open conversation and, and getting ahead of.
- [18:53]
Jodi
Those fires that to be expected.
- [18:56]
Jodi Condon
Your client's kid's gonna get your doula's kid's gonna get the stomach bug. I know it's coming into winter. We've already had pneumonia. Stomach bug, everyone. Most people have younger kids. I just want to say ahead of time that's going to happen. And you know what, your family is also going to get the stomach bug so you can cancel on us. And I think too, I run it very much like a business. Like, I definitely have expectations and a framework for rules and regulations. But if a client's kid breaks their arm and ends up in the ER and they have, and they're going to be around and so the doula can't come. We have a 48 hour cancellation policy. I'm not going to charge them.
- [19:34]
Jodi
Right.
- [19:35]
Jodi Condon
I charge a lot of people who cancel in less than 48 hours. Believe me. Like, that is a Very real rule that I stick to. But if I'm not charging the client for. For a certain reason, I'm still paying the doula. And there are definitely ways that I make sure my doulas are taken care of and they know that I have their back. But I also, I know the clients too, and I know the clients that understand that we say no to other clients to schedule them, and they're very conscious of making sure that they pay if they break the policy or whatever. And then there are some that could rock the boat. And not that I play favorites to the sensitive ones, but I don't know, if you're going to the Cape early for a day, you're gonna get charged, right? Your kid got exposed to like, chickenpox or whatever. I don't know. Whose fault is that? It's no one's fault. I don't know.
- [20:23]
Jodi
So.
- [20:23]
Jodi Condon
Right.
- [20:24]
Jodi
No, but I think I love what you're saying. And I do this too, even just in my solo doula practice. Like setting expectations with the client before they even have the baby is so huge in terms of realistic expectations. Oh, yeah. But just something like you touched on, like, just explaining to them if we need 48 hours notice to cancel. Because when you cancel, like, our doulas don't get paid or. Or more importantly, we've blocked that day off and said no to other families.
- [21:00]
Jodi Condon
And like a perfect example is I have a doula who, when she works like an extra overnight, she puts her son in daycare the next day and it's an extra $75 to add on a day. So I try to plan, and she plans. She sets, signs them up for those days. And if someone cancels, she's still in it for 75. She doesn't get a refund. So I can't have her paying for no reason. And then, so it's. And I make sure the families understand that we focus on caring for you, but it's also really important that we care for our own families so we can continue to care for you.
- [21:30]
Jodi
Yeah, but I think that one happened. I see that one all the time in the doula groups of, like, my client canceled six hours notice. And when you explain to them clients beforehand, like how this runs in terms of cancellation policies and payment policies and all those contract things, when you have those open conversations on the interview, you save everybody so many headaches down the.
- [21:57]
Jodi Condon
Road because you don't want to say when they're like, so freaking out that their kid has a fever or the other kid broke their arm. You don't want to be like, by the way, you owe me 500 for a night that I'm not there. Yeah. If you talk about it ahead of time and they know it. They're not anxious. They're not in a feel like they're not upset about something. So it's like they're so excited to have their baby and they understand all these things. So too, when you make. When you talk about these things, you don't bring it up when they're already hysterical. Then they're going to be like, I'm absolutely not. Yeah.
- [22:27]
Jodi
And of course they're going to threaten to sue you. And that. Yeah. When you do it that way.
- [22:31]
Jodi Condon
And I can't even. I. I read about that too. I can't even fathom a client suing over some cancellation policy. But it happens. It's.
- [22:38]
Jodi
Wow.
- [22:39]
Jodi Condon
Like, I don't know. I feel like. I also feel like we have the best clients. I'm not even ask any of the doulas that we contract with. They're like, I don't know where you find these people, but they're amazing. I like your average. I like your average clients. Your average appreciative clients that go to work, come home, need your services. But I don't charge a huge deposit. Like, I'm very fair with the money that they pay up front to book, which really opens it up to a lot more people. We have some contracts that are, you know, 40, 50, $60,000. Like, I can't ask you for $30,000 up front, and then the other 30 the day before we start. Like, to me, that feels crazy. Like, they can afford the weekly services.
- [23:23]
Jodi
Right.
- [23:23]
Jodi Condon
Can't afford the other part. And I. That's who I want. I love you guys. I want you to be our clients because you are the most appreciative. You are like the nicest. You're. I don't know. But I. We attract the best clients.
- [23:37]
Jodi
Yeah. And you reap what you sow, so you must be the best. No, but it's. Again, it comes down to setting expectations. And that's so interesting to. You say that about your deposit. Because I've always thought that too. I don't take like a 50% retainer. And it has never. Knock on wood.
- [23:56]
Jodi Condon
Me either. I'm knocking on my table has never came back to bite me. There are people that have ended early and they've paid that remainder because I actually. The deposit on the front end. Don't judge me for that.
- [24:08]
Jodi
That's so funny. I do too I know.
- [24:10]
Jodi Condon
Of course you do. Because I do. That's.
- [24:11]
Jodi
We.
- [24:11]
Jodi Condon
We have the same mentality. It's just. It's easier. I don't want to be at the end.
- [24:16]
Jodi
Like, I know that sounds like a nightmare to me to keep track of it. Yeah.
- [24:21]
Jodi Condon
Yeah. And I just. I don't want my doulas to have to worry about that either. They're just. They're there for the families. They're not there to count down how many days and hours are left. So I. I use it up front. And again, it's just like being upfront with clients and talking about what happens if you do want to end early. Like, not that many people do, but having those open conversations. I don't need to worry about those things. Like the policies and the. And they do. They end up loving their doulas. They want to make sure they're taken care of.
- [24:49]
Jodi
Yeah. So.
- [24:51]
Jodi Condon
Yeah.
- [24:51]
Jodi
And is your agency. Do you also cover birth doulas as well?
- [24:56]
Jodi Condon
We do. We do birth and postpartum. Yep. And we do a variety of classes, like prenatal, postpartum classes. But, yeah, it's funny. It's mainly postpartum. We probably do 10 births a month. It's not like my focus. Postpartum is my focus.
- [25:10]
Jodi
Yeah. And I love that you train everybody. That's. That has to be like a unique. It's the best scenario. It. Yeah. And I feel like I. I have the nexus, too.
- [25:23]
Jodi Condon
Like, I love train. I love teaching doulas. Like, I love training doulas. I love the education piece. So it's, like, fitting.
- [25:31]
Jodi
Yeah. I. All my doulas and my agency have been trained by my friend Chris D. Multe. So I feel like that's the next best thing. I know.
- [25:38]
Jodi Condon
I feel like if whoever is training them, if they all get similar training or by the same person, then it's. Your scope of practice is the same. Like, everyone has learned the same things and is doing the same baseline. Now. They can go over and above however they want, but, like, bare minimum expectations, everybody.
- [25:57]
Jodi
And like, philosophy. Yeah. So that's a really good point. It does, actually. I think that's another reason it. That makes this easier for both of us is that comment. It's like common baseline core principles, which are huge. What else would you tell someone that is interested in starting an agency?
- [26:22]
Jodi Condon
Do it. Oh, my God. Do not hesitate. Do it. It is. It's a game changer. It's a game changer for just your lifestyle. Like, you're. You have, like, freedom to figure out what Your week looks like maybe you're going to take clients on Monday and Wednesday, but like Tuesday and Thursday you're doing agency work so you're talking to prospective clients. And then maybe Friday is the day that you work on your business growth and planning and things like that. And Wednesday is my CEO day. I love Wednesdays. My hair is in a messy bun. I am wearing sweatpants because I'm not on Zoom with anyone. I don't have anything that I need to be like, present for. And I have like my computer. I have my notebooks of everything sprawled out. And the only people I'm on zoom with is people in like my planning crew that I'm working on projects with. But I can see at the end of the day like we grew a bit. Something that we worked on is now coming to fruition. The end of a Wednesday is like my favorite day because I'm like, we've moved forward. And even if it's the footsteps because they have the agency and then I have Birth Boss Academy and Agency and Birth Boss Society. Like I have other. The agency is like my parent focus and like the other things are my doula or birth professional focus. So I have two distinct audiences. Yeah, mix. They're not the same. They don't get the same email. So I'm. Everything's duplicated to two different people. So it's all right.
- [27:46]
Jodi
Tell us about. You have a class or a course or program, I should say for doulas who want to start an agency. Tell us about that. Yeah.
- [27:53]
Jodi Condon
Yep. It's the Birth Boss Agency program. And it is partially self paced, partially live. And you literally learn every single thing you need to know about building the foundation as far as just like logistics. And you learn all about clients and contractors and finances. And there's a lot of templates that come with it and different programs I use. And it takes you from A to Z. Like you are up and running at the end. So it's not. Now you've done the planning process and now you're off to yourself. We execute together.
- [28:28]
Jodi
It's great.
- [28:29]
Jodi Condon
And it's. Yeah, it's. Part of me wishes I had that when I started because I love, I love a very step by step process. I love some handholding. Like I need that to get my, you know, work done. But I also feel like it benefited me tremendously to fall on my ass a bunch of times and do the wrong thing and spend money where I didn't need to or take too much time with this or not delegate. And then I Messed up and had to redo it. But I learned the ins and outs of what to do, what not to do.
- [28:58]
Jodi
Yeah.
- [28:59]
Jodi Condon
What doesn't work, but, like, why it doesn't work. So, yeah, so it. It was like a learning process. And it probably took me like a few years longer than it should have to really get up and running, but it was for a purpose. And now I turned and now I work with other doulas to do it faster. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [29:15]
Jodi
All right. And I'll put the link to where people can find out about that in the show notes of this episode or. And I should say, and you can come to Florida and hang out with Jodi and I at the birth worker retreat. And actually you're going to be doing a session at the birth worker retreat on starting an agency.
- [29:34]
Jodi Condon
I'm doing a session on agency. I think a session on passive income and then a session on talking to your clients about money. Like, approaching, like, money issues. I feel like I put verbiage around cost and value and articulating that value. And I feel like that's such a hard thing for some doulas. Like, they're amazing doulas, but they're not getting the clients because they can't. The interviews don't go well.
- [30:00]
Jodi
Yeah.
- [30:00]
Jodi Condon
They don't know how to explain things or what to say, and it goes south. And then it's like they're wasting their good. They're wasting skills.
- [30:09]
Jodi
Yeah. Don't throw away your doula skills because you get squirrely when you have to talk about money in the interview. It's hard.
- [30:15]
Jodi Condon
I hate those confrontational conversations about money. But, yeah, they're necessary because this is. This cost a lot. Like, doula care, for the most part, is still a luxury. We're lucky to have things like carrot and insurance reimbursement, but for the most part, it is a luxurious service and it shouldn't be, but it is. And it's sometimes a hard to say the price per hour or the package price if people don't understand the value of all that. It's like sticker shock central.
- [30:42]
Jodi
Yeah.
- [30:42]
Jodi Condon
And that's why I. And this is a conversation. I can't even believe I'm going to say this because I'm opening this can of worms. That's why you shouldn't put your prices on your website. But I feel like that is like, if you ask a hundred people, 50 say do it and 50 say don't.
- [30:55]
Jodi
Oh, my God. I say do it. So let's hash it out. Oh, my God.
- [30:59]
Jodi Condon
Wait Are we hashing it out now or are we doing another podcast episode on why you should or should not put your prices on your website?
- [31:04]
Jodi
I can tell you in one sentence why I say go for it. All right, we'll do the five minute version. This is hilarious. I think you should.
- [31:12]
Jodi Condon
It was going to get to this.
- [31:13]
Jodi
I know. Who knows? But this is just how it is with you and I, Jodi. I think you should have your doula prices on your website. So there's no question, actually. And that's how it makes the money conversation easier for me when I'm getting on the interview. People have already seen the prices, so I just have to answer their questions. It also saves me time in that I don't waste time on a consult or an interview with someone that never could have afforded it from the get go. So I prefer. I also, as a consumer, appreciate when I'm looking something up to know what it costs. If it, if I don't see a website, if I don't see a website, if I don't see a price, I assume it's outrageous and I can't afford it. Or I'm just like, moving on. I'll find something else.
- [32:02]
Jodi Condon
Dino, I'm getting here. Okay, so the first thing is, do you think you lose out on clients who see the price, get scared, don't fill out the paperwork. But in essence, if they heard all the things, because maybe they didn't understand what postpartum care was. Exactly. So once they say, oh my God, that sounds like exactly what I need, ooh, 50 an hour, I, I understand that now. I understand that now. And yes, I want to book whatever. So that's. I, I feel like you could be missing out. The other part of that is I think it. So two things. I think it depends where you live. I think Boston, the Boston area, and I think New England as a whole. I think they're educated in this piece of like mental health and wellness and they understand the value. So their expectations are that it's going to be a high cost service. So I, I think when I look at a website, if you're going on Target and looking for a tv, if there was no prices, I'd be like, this is absurd. But tv, the exact same tv, I want to know the price at the different places because I'm getting the exact same thing. Like literally the exact same thing. I want the least expensive one. But like, with Doula Care, there's different packages, there are different things people bring to the table. So I want to be able to talk about all the things and the way you can get around that is in your registration form. I want to know their name, their birthday, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can say, are you willing to invest at least this amount of money in your early parenting or whatever. If they say no, then no. But if they say yes or I'm not sure, then we move forward. I don't have that in my paperwork.
- [33:36]
Jodi
Oh, I was going to say, wait a minute, tell me more.
- [33:38]
Jodi Condon
No, but I think people should. I think if you don't have prices on your website and you're scared that people will not move forward, then that's a way to weed out the people that you don't want to waste your time or their time because you don't want to get on a call. And at the end they're like 50 bucks an hour. I thought it was going to be like 21.
- [33:55]
Jodi
Yeah.
- [33:57]
Jodi Condon
But I feel like I. I feel like I don't need that on my website. I don't want people I don't know, but I want to be able to talk to them first and get to know, get really personal. And also another little thing that I do is once we have our Zoom call, I move it right to text. I want it personal. I want to be able to chit chat a little bit because email is a little bit more formal. Like, you have to like, hey, so and so with like proper punctuation. I move it to text. I keep it pretty casual. Very personal. I don't have to wait. There's no crickets. We do our thing. I match. So I don't know.
- [34:34]
Jodi
How many Zoom consults do you do that? They don't hire your agency?
- [34:40]
Jodi Condon
I would say we probably have at least a 90% hiring rate. The people, like, I just had a consult with someone and I talked to her today. She is, she's from. Where is she from? I want to say Thailand. She got pregnant during COVID or right before COVID She went to go be with her family. She was there for two years, came back here and decided to go back to Thailand to have her second baby. So we didn't get her, but usually it's because they either went with another doula. It's not pricing and it's not. Yeah, definitely not pricing. Because everyone in my area is the same. Some people are charging 60, 70 an hour, which is way higher than my agency.
- [35:22]
Jodi
Yeah.
- [35:24]
Jodi Condon
And they're. They stay busy. Yeah. So, yeah, if we don't, if we don't get someone, it's not because of price.
- [35:30]
Jodi
Okay.
- [35:31]
Jodi Condon
The other thing I will say, I'm gonna add one more thing to this. And I'm not putting prices on my website regardless. But because I train doulas, there's always two or three doulas that we have, like freshly out of a training where if I feel like the conversation is going in a direction that they're like, you know, balking at the price or they say, we have this much to spend. What can we do with it? Because we definitely get those clients. I will say, here's what our doulas are. But this is your second baby. This is your third baby. You don't necessarily need the education piece or whatever. You really are just interested in making sure that a priority. I have some doulas that are fairly new. The price is much lower. The expectations also are different. Right. So we have that conversation. And it's beneficial to the client because they can. And it's beneficial to me because I'm getting these doulas the hours they need to get their certification. Real fast. They get certified and then they can go on and take full price clients. But also because carrot now in insurance now requires certification. I want more duels.
- [36:32]
Jodi
Oh, right. Yeah.
- [36:33]
Jodi Condon
Like, beneficial to everyone.
- [36:35]
Jodi
I love that.
- [36:36]
Jodi Condon
Options.
- [36:37]
Jodi
That's great.
- [36:38]
Jodi Condon
All the things. You just need a little bit of the things. But I'm not cutting the price of exactly. They only need two out of the five things we provide or whatever. So this is a really good way to meet in the middle.
- [36:49]
Jodi
That was fascinating. And I have known you for so many years. I can't believe that this has never come up that we. You don't put your prices on your website, ma'am. I love it. So this goes along with something I say all the time, is that you can do this however you want.
- [37:06]
Jodi Condon
There's really no right or wrong way. It's just different. Yeah.
- [37:10]
Jodi
And it. It's obviously working for both of us. So.
- [37:13]
Jodi Condon
And that. That's another point. Whatever works for you, continue doing that. And if something's not working for you, figure out why differently. But it's funny because people will ask these questions on these doula Facebook groups or whatever, and then they. People will say, do this, and then they do it. And it doesn't work for them. If someone never gives any depth of why they chose that, they just say, put your prices on. But it matters where you live. It matters your clientele, it matters your personality. It matters if I know doula agencies that as soon as an inquiry comes in, they pass it off to one of the Contractors to do the interview.
- [37:49]
Jodi
Yeah.
- [37:50]
Jodi Condon
Like, how do you even know that person's available? And how do you know that they're gonna sell it and close the deal? I know how to sell it and I know I get a feel for the client. There's so many. It's like a. There's so many things that go into an interview. And my inter. Are different with everyone. It depends on the person.
- [38:04]
Jodi
Yeah.
- [38:04]
Jodi Condon
You have a good personality. You're funny. I'm funny. If you're dry, I'm serious. Feel it out. I feel it out.
- [38:10]
Jodi
There's something to be said for. I'm 14 years into interviewing doula clients. Like I.
- [38:15]
Jodi Condon
Personal service. Like a very personal service. You need to get. You need to. Not personal, but like, you need to show out. Like, you need to get to their level and play the game they're playing. Not a game, but like, everyone's.
- [38:28]
Jodi
Meet them where they're at. You need to meet them where they're at.
- [38:31]
Jodi Condon
Thank you.
- [38:32]
Jodi
That is huge. And I think also when you can very quickly, like, just cut to the chase and I don't know, I think at this point, I can't even think of an example, but the way I talk with new parents or soon to be parents, they just can sense that I instantly get it. And that comes from 14 years of being a postpartum dualist. Yeah, I'm with you. I do not pass the interview. I handle all the interviews that come into our agency.
- [39:02]
Jodi Condon
So because I feel like if someone's type A and like, anxious about their first baby, I'm gonna give a lots of detail. And if someone is like, it's 7pm, they just got home from work and they cannot wait to take their bra off. We're going short doing bullet points tonight. And I'll even say, listen, I know you just got home. You're probably starving. Top five FAQs at you.
- [39:24]
Jodi
And.
- [39:25]
Jodi Condon
And then they laugh and they appreciate it.
- [39:26]
Jodi
But again, that just under shows that you.
- [39:29]
Jodi Condon
Yes. Oh, my God, I do want to take my bra off. And I'm not going to do it on camera. So let's get this rolling and then if you're instantly connected and they. What I love about an agency too, is I know that they want to work with us and it's just a matter of me matching them with the appropriate doulas. It's a definite yes in the big picture. And now it's just fine tuning.
- [39:47]
Jodi
Yeah, I love that. Oh, my gosh. This has been an amazing conversation. So thank you, Jodi, for I Get.
- [39:53]
Jodi Condon
Excited like at the thought of other people listening and being on the fence and being like, oh my God, like tonight I'm doing this. Like tonight I'm really like doing this. Because they've been thinking back and forth but then like life gets in the way because they have clients and they're tired and they, it just gets put off and put off. But now that they.
- [40:11]
Jodi
And there's also, there's so many questions like of how to do it. And so having a mentor to help you through makes a huge difference. But it is really the next logical step. Step. I feel like I talk a lot about, we both do, about scaling your business as a doula and ways to grow. And I feel like in starting an agency, whether you have one doula or 50 is the next logical step to bringing in another revenue stream and freeing.
- [40:40]
Jodi Condon
Up that you're not actively working for.
- [40:44]
Jodi
And that frees up your time to dive into some of these other areas, digital courses, digital products, other passive income stream which we'll get into on another podcast episode. But in the meantime, come hang out with us in Clearwater, Florida for the.
- [41:01]
Jodi Condon
Birth worker retreat 13 through 15.
- [41:05]
Jodi
It's going to be so much fun. And we, you and I, Jodi, can both be there because our doulas will be handling our agency and our in person clients. So that gives us the freedom to get away.
- [41:17]
Jodi Condon
Literally. We will be on the beach and both of us will be making money. Our business will be growing, our doulas are making money, our clients are cared for. Yeah, check all the boxes and we're on the beach.
- [41:31]
Jodi
Pretty sweet.
- [41:33]
Jodi Condon
I wouldn't trade it for the world. That is no lie. It's not an exaggeration. I wouldn't trade it.
- [41:38]
Jodi
And Jody's website is hiptoheart.com you have your own podcast called the Birth Boss Podcast. Go check it out. So good online.
- [41:47]
Jodi Condon
We recorded it end of last week.
- [41:49]
Jodi
Yes, and. And then you can find out about your agency program on your website. I'll put the link in the show notes and come meet us in Florida. Thanks.
- [42:02]
Darcy
Thank you for tuning in to the Doula Darcy podcast. I hope you found this episode valuable and I'd love for you to join me on the next one. Let's keep the conversation going. Shoot me a DM on Instagram thedula Darcy or join my free Facebook community, the Doula Marketing Group, where we dive.
- [42:18]
Jodi
Deeper into growing your doula business.
- [42:21]
Darcy
If you enjoyed the episode, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your favorite platform. Your feedback will help more doulas discover the show, which in turn helps more families find the doula support that they need. And I believe that that is how we save the world.