← The Downfall Of Diddy | The Case Against Sean 'Puffy P Diddy' Combs
The Downfall Of Diddy | The Case Against Sean 'Puffy P Diddy' Combs
How Diddy Led A Cult Of Unhealthy Followers To Destruction & Pain
00:25:07
Loading summary
Transcript59 lines
- [00:00]
Tony
If your job at a healthcare facility includes disinfecting against viruses, you know prevention is the best medicine. And maintaining healthy spaces starts with a healthy cleaning routine. Grainger's world class supply chain helps ensure you have the quality products you need when you need them, from disinfectants and cleaning supplies to personal protective equipment so you can help deliver a clean bill of health. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [00:30]
Tonal
Going to the gym can be discouraging, especially if you're putting in the work but barely seeing changes. But with Tonal you can actually see your progress with every workout. Tonal provides the convenience of a full gym and the expertise of a personal trainer anytime at home with one sleek system designed to reduce your mental load. Tonal is the ultimate strength training system, helping you focus less on workout planning and more on getting results. No more second guessing your technique. Tonal gives you real time coaching cues to dial in your form and help you lift safely and effectively. After a quick assessment, Tonal sets the optimal weight for every move and adjust in 1 pound increments as you get stronger so you're always challenged. Tonal lets you choose from a variety of expert LED workouts from strength to aero hit to yoga and mobility to keep you coming back for more For a limited time. Go to Tonal.com to get $500 off your Tonal purchase plus a free four year warranty. That's Tonal.com for $500 off plus a free four year warranty. Tonal.com the gym can be discouraging, especially if you're putting in the work but barely seeing changes. But with Tonal you can actually see your progress with every workout. Tonal provides the convenience of a full gym and the expertise of a personal trainer anytime at home with one sleek system designed to reduce your mental load. Tonal is the ultimate strength training system, helping you focus less on workout planning and more on getting results. No more second guessing your technique. Tonal gives you real time coaching cues to dial in your form and help you lift safely and effectively. After a quick assessment, Tonal sets the optimal weight for every move and adjusts in 1 pound increments as you get stronger so you're always challenged. Tonal lets you choose from a variety of expert LED workouts from strength to aero hit to yoga and mobility to keep you coming back for more. For a limited time, go to Tonal.com to get $500 off your Tonal purchase plus a free four year warranty. That's Tonal.com for $500 off plus a free four year warranty. Tonal.com.
- [02:33]
Tony
This is continuing coverage of United States versus Sean Diddy combs from the Hidden Killers podcast and True Crime today. Well, you know, when you think things can't get darker, they do with Diddy. It just seems to be his thing. He seems to be kind of the spawn of Satan, to put it lightly. I don't know at this point because the way that this guy has allegedly dehumanized so many people and gotten away with it is just really, really shocking. There was some really poignant testimony coming in. Capricorn Clark is the woman's name, broke down emotionally when describing Cassie Ventura being beaten by Combs. She witnessed it and really didn't do anything out of fear. I'm not victim blaming here saying that, you know, but from a behavioral standpoint, Robin Dreeg, by the way, with us, retired FBI, just feel like it's like, cheers. We're just already here. Retired FBI, special Agency for the Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis program. From a behavioral, you know, perspective here, how, how do you evaluate authentic emotional courage versus, you know, performative emotion on the stand? Because I know they're going to go after her and they're going to say, well, you kept coming back, you, you left and you came back ungodly amount of times even though she was being abused. And we'll talk about that in a moment. But, you know, she's up there, she's testifying, she's corroborating Cassie's story. What would you be looking for in her testimony for someone who kept working for Diddy over and over and over, even after a lot of abuse?
- [04:18]
Robin Dreeg
It's really complicated because you're going to, you're going to see every gamut of the emotional stress, insecurities, trauma, trauma bonding. Fear is the main motivator of all human beings. And you're seeing a lot of that play out. You're seeing the trauma bonding, like I said, play out. You're seeing insecurities. So all you're looking for in cases like this is you're going to be looking for raw, hard data for things that are actually done. You know, that you can collaborate, but when it comes to the individual interviews and testimonies, you're going to look just for consistencies between all these stories. And the challenge here also, Tony, is, boy, one person's fear is a little bit different than another person's fear. And so as I saw, as I was watching some of the testimony and some of the legal arguments going back and forth on this today. They're saying, well, this story of from this one person, you know, like Cassie is not completely lining up with this person. Well, because two different contexts from the same situation and you got to just pay attention to the core situation of what Diddy was actually doing. But from a different optic from over here, different optic from here, motivations from this one individual is going to be completely different or slightly different from this person's. The fear factor in one person's would be playing out different than fear factor in this other person. The, the recentness of the threats, the recentness of the fear of the individual. I mean, so there's so many different dynamics because we're not dealing with hard data in these situations. We're dealing with subjective impact of, of real life interactions with human behavior.
- [05:50]
Tony
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:51]
Robin Dreeg
Very, very complex. Very complex. In other words, that's my long answer.
- [05:54]
Tony
Yeah.
- [05:55]
Robin Dreeg
To a complex question. Because everyone's going to be very different on how they respond and how they're test.
- [05:59]
Tony
And Capricorn testified that she worked for Diddy on and off from 2004 to 2018, despite the claims that she was threatened, physically assaulted, forced in a car at gunpoint. That was when they went to go to Kid Cootie's house, traumatized by workplace intimidation, even then reconnected with the legal team in 24 to ask for a job as his chief of staff. Again, that's a lot of stuff. And we think of trauma bonding, we think of that sometimes with personal relationships and partners, but I mean, it can certainly happen with anyone. But it's interesting that the bonding occurred after the job started or maybe there was some younger things in each of their lives that they bonded over. And this, I mean, that's the sad part. I wonder if this sort of behavior and this sort of treatment, you know, felt a little familiar and you know.
- [06:59]
Robin Dreeg
Yes. Yeah, it does. And also. So another core tenet of human behavior that is guaranteed is not just fears or motivator for human beings, but also we're always going to act in what we think is our best interests in terms of our safety, security and prosperity. Prosperity being really the key here. So. And it's from the individual's point of view. So each of these individuals, they're acting what they think is their best interest. And so that's why, you know, left the job, actually got a higher paying job, but goes back because they're looking for their future, they're looking for prosperity, they're looking for. And now so getting an understanding. Because remember, Diddy's reach was massive. You know, we likened him last time we chatted to a dictator of a nation state. Yeah, this nation state is big and you don't know exactly where the borders are. And as time passes, his claim on the borders, it's expanding. I mean, this is like a never ending size to someone that's on the outside looking in. They're like, how can I even have a job or career in this industry unless I'm part of this nation state? And so I'm going to leverage the relationship I have even though it's toxic because it's in my best interest if I want to be in this industry to do that, because everyone else is. Because so they're rationalizing their behavior with groupthink that they're seeing other people and social proof. And they're saying, well, maybe I'm the one that's wrong. Maybe I'm the one that's not getting on board with this thing which are being told, which are being demonstrated. Because remember, everyone else that is normally that happens in this thing, like in most situations, people are putting forth their 5% highlight reel of how awesome it is and hiding the 98 of crap that's going on behind the scenes. And so when people around you and in this, in around Diddy's circle is saying, you know, only presenting that 5% highlight reel, you're thinking, I'm the one that's wrong. I just gotta get on board, at least just conjecture what's going on here. And then when you. And then you're just dealing with a lot of really unhealthy people because unhealthy people gravitate towards each other.
- [09:01]
Tony
Yeah. I mean, and the thing is, the highlight reel of that 5% of the time, that's really good. It's probably really good to like a level that's not like anything else with the access that these people would have to things that they otherwise wouldn't. I mean, Diddy's the celebrity. And these are. This is a staff member of his that we're talking about. It's not Cassie. It's not another celebrity. So to be able to be a part of that world that one would have to imagine, you kind of dreamed you'd want to be someday. That's why you ended up taking a job with Diddy. That, you know that the perks, those little perks, even though they're probably pretty big, outweigh the pain and the trauma that you're going through at the time. And I'm wondering if there's probably a lot of downplaying of the trauma while you're going through it, not really realizing just how traumatic some of this stuff is until you're out of the environment.
- [09:57]
Robin Dreeg
These are a group of people, and we see it in our lives every day that have a life out of balance. And that is they're viewing success as materialism and things, and they're going to sacrifice healthy relationships, healthy engagement, mental health to. Because they're coveting. Because their social network has told them that success is this thing, this object, this notoriety, this title, this position and this material wealth who on their deathbed said it was all worth it.
- [10:31]
Tony
Yeah.
- [10:32]
Robin Dreeg
Not one person. Because remember, it's when you have your life out of balance. And this is why doing true crime is the simplest thing in the world. Because every single case like this is circled around really, really unhealthy people that are valuing things over relationship. And so, and that's where the life arc is. So all these people in a life. And so the life art could have been very good and very altruistic. I want to get in the music industry. I want to do things to provide value to others. I want to inspire people through the, the creative things I'm doing. That's a beautiful life arc. But then when they get to that certain point and they're sold the bill of goods by the nation state of Diddy, then. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the mission here. The mission here is the materialist. The mission here is the title and position of being in the Diddy circle. The, the, the, the mission here is to get invited to the white party. What goes on at the white party? Well, you got to be inside the, the, the, the nation of Diddy first to get invited to that. And so you get groomed into and groomed out of the healthy outlook you had on life and valuing people over things. You know, I, I, I see this all the time in, in, in my great kids. And, and when you pursue things above relationships, you're always going to lose. It just, you will just lose. And, and we all go out with exactly what we came in with. Nothing except the memories and relationships that we had and when, and, and I, I know I'm getting on kind of this pontification of, of, of, you know, altruistic, you know, living, but that's why I, I see this whole situation, this whole case through that lens because this is a lot of unhealthy people. Now what's happening is with the people that are testifying. It takes an immense amount of courage to go against what they've been validating inside themselves and rationalizing their own behavior for all these years to try to break out of that. But there's a lot of baggage you're bringing with it as they're trying to break out.
- [12:29]
Tony
I think one of the shocking. I mean, everything's been shocking in this case, but. But one of the many shocking things, and I'm curious to get your take on the mind behind this, is the folks who were allegedly witnessing Diddy be physically abusive to Cassie. I know there's other accusations about him with other people, too. Some of the specific ones I'm talking about involves Combs kicking Cassie Ventura repeatedly while she was in a fetal position and begged security to help. Nobody stepped in. Clark was allegedly there. There was also alleg of Diddy literally punching Cassie in the stomach at a restaurant. With many other celebrities that were there other people in the music world that were brought up around that. That time in that era. I won't name their names on here, but you can certainly find them. And again, nobody does anything. And the thing is, it wasn't everybody that was a security guard that he probably threatened their life or the lives of their. They ever go and tell anything on him? These were other people, you know, maybe not quite of his stature, because there really wasn't many that were ever that high of his stature in the music industry, but people who had a lot of clout and just stood by and watched this happen. I don't know. That's a weird psychology to it. And fame and money, I'm sure, are big players in that. But to watch, like, somebody just punch their significant other at dinner, and you're like, hey, can I get some more of the ambrosia pie? It's like, that's not. That's weird.
- [14:19]
Robin Dreeg
That's what cults do, and that's what the Nazi Party did during World War II. There's no difference.
- [14:26]
Tony
Yeah, there really isn't.
- [14:28]
Robin Dreeg
I mean, when you are groomed into thinking this is normal and you are being told how to rationalize it, people are objectifying people that aren't part of that inner circle. Because, remember, when you're not, when you're part of the inner circle, everything's okay. So you're just battling for that title position of the inner circle so you don't get treated like that. That's what happens. Again, it happens inside of every single cult. It happens inside the Nazi Party. People are Trying to figure that out. It wasn't really all that complicated. You, you set people up as victims or problem solvers. And then inside, you know, what Hitler was shown was that, you know, this is. This is how we're being abused by the world. And here's the reason why we're being abused. And so we're going to form a coalition around this. If you're not part of this group, you're on the outside of this group. On the outside of this group, we're just going to destroy you and we're going to, you know, kill anyone. It stands in a way. And I mean, there's so many cases of family members turning in family members, of. Of mothers turning in kids. I mean, in some cases, I mean, it was really pretty hard actually. Not mothers and kids. It's actually kids turning in parents, actually in a lot of these cases. But it's the same thing because you're sold a bill of goods and that and you get brainwashed into thinking this is normal thinking. I mean, again, I love drawing some of these other cases together, you know, so let's move out of the darkness of World War II and the Nazis. You know what we look at again, we go back to Ruby, Frankie and Jody Hildebrandt.
- [15:56]
Tony
Yeah.
- [15:57]
Robin Dreeg
You know how they brainwashed their husband and the kids into thinking that this behavior of abuse is absolutely normal in life and if you weren't part of it, you're going to be ostracized and kicked out of it. They're groomed into it and they thought this was completely normal. About how we raise kids is by beatings, by suffering, by. I mean, just think about the mental abuse that those kids went through. In that case was that Ruby said that the. That the two youngest kids were not behaving well enough. They did not deserve Christmas presents. And so they were forced to sit there on Christmas morning and watch everyone else open up the Christmas presents. And everyone in that house thought that was okay.
- [16:35]
Tony
Yeah.
- [16:35]
Robin Dreeg
Or they didn't think it was okay, but they didn't know what to do about it. And that's the really key. They didn't know what to do about it. So in these people. Let's bring it to the diddy now. You see something important, you see something horrendous, but you don't do about it. Who do you go to? You go to the police. Well, if I go to the police, my, my. I diddy kills people.
- [16:54]
Tony
Yeah. No, allegedly. Yeah.
- [16:56]
Robin Dreeg
Or ruins careers. I mean, bad things happen. People disappear who go against the system. So what do I do about it? I better just shut up.
- [17:03]
Tony
Because you want to. It's self preservation, too.
- [17:05]
Robin Dreeg
And 100 again, fear is the greatest motivator here. And then just not knowing. Because when, when someone's running a nation state or a cult, which is a little mini nation state or the. The world of Diddy, where do you go?
- [17:19]
Tony
Yeah. It seems like a lot of people saw firsthand what a monster he was that just didn't say a word. It wasn't all just behind closed doors. In fact, it seemed to be pretty much out in the open. There always had been some rumblings, but he always. I mean, there's rumblings about everybody in Hollywood and it always just kind of felt like that's where it ended. But to hear like, oh my God, like all these people were witnessing this sort of stuff from him and not doing anything. And I get that, well, what do I do? But what then makes me wonder even more is, well, who else is doing this, that this is so normal? I would think it would be an outlier. If Diddy's the only one doing it, maybe people would be more apt to speak up about it. But who else is like this over there?
- [18:05]
Robin Dreeg
So an outlier would be someone that has a healthy balance. No, that's true.
- [18:08]
Tony
Yeah.
- [18:09]
Robin Dreeg
You really think a healthy, balanced individual is going to make it inside that inner circle?
- [18:12]
Tony
No, that. No, that's true.
- [18:14]
Robin Dreeg
Because those people are already walking away.
- [18:16]
Tony
Yeah.
- [18:16]
Robin Dreeg
And so it's only the unhealthy that make it through the door to that level. The broken or the breakable is a good way to put it. I won't say anyone's broken before they did this, but the breakable made it through that door so they could be groomed into it.
- [18:33]
Tony
I mean, with all of these things that are coming out now, and we haven't seen a lot publicly about other celebrities involved with the actual abuse. Maybe we will, maybe we won't, I don't know. But the fact that so many names are being named, just being present or these things. Do you think that this has changed something in that world? So many people just dead silent on this whole case or even like leaving the country, it's. Do you think people are having a reckoning with this behavior or just, well, that one got caught.
- [19:15]
Robin Dreeg
Or a short time period maybe. But at the same time, though, human beings are still human beings. We've been evolving for hundreds of thousands of years, and you're not going to undo our brokenness in a, in a ditty case. So it might ebb away for a short time as it's heightened and more sensitive. But as time passes and the memory of it fades, power will always corrupt. You know, abhorrent, unhealthy behavior will always be there. People willing to victimize others for their own gain will always be there. You know, we're not going to wipe it out. All you can do is try to have great systems of legal justice systems in place so you can try to overcome these things when they do happen, because it will happen again. Just it won't happen anytime too soon. But the seeds are always there because people are people and there's always going to be someone who want to take advantage of you.
- [20:04]
Tony
Yeah. One more take on this. The mother of Cassie Ventura, she, in this case, she knew that Cassie was being abused and to make him stop abusing, he demanded that she give him $20,000 and she paid it. It's like, right, it's extortion and it's, but it's almost in reverse. You would almost be thinking it'd be the other way around of, I'll give you $20,000 not to tell anybody that I'm doing this, but it's more like you're gonna give me that money. I mean, that's, that's very sadistic in terms of a power grab. And that takes a, that takes an evil type of person to do that sort of shit.
- [20:52]
Robin Dreeg
No, the form of control.
- [20:53]
Tony
Yeah.
- [20:55]
Robin Dreeg
Do you really think he needed $20,000? No, no, it's, it's a, it's a form of control.
- [20:59]
Tony
Yeah.
- [21:00]
Robin Dreeg
So he now own. That's it. And she, she paid to be owned by him.
- [21:05]
Tony
Yeah. That's what makes it like so horrific.
- [21:08]
Robin Dreeg
Yeah. So I, again, I don't know these people, but we know patterns when, when, when, when people that are struggling with, with life, with healthy behaviors, their decision making process on how to fix problems and problem solving is also a bit off and a bit broken and also fear, you know, so the mother's got fear factor involved there too. So she's doing the righteous thing that she thinks to try to save her daughter. And she doesn't know what to do because of fear. Most likely fear of reprisal, fear of this. And if a powerful guy says, all you got to do is give me this money to save your daughter, you're going to consider those things because you don't think there's another option in there. Because, you know, if I can imagine the insinuations that people in Diddy circle could be making of, hey, well, you might as well do this, because you know what? We got the cops on the payroll. If you saw that last case. Yeah. It went nowhere. Wink, wink. Well, just because you got no recourse. So I guarantee there's a lot of that going around too, because we've seen it. You know, we saw a lot of his accusations. How come this wasn't more investigated thoroughly? How come this? How come this? Because there was no law but Diddy law.
- [22:22]
Tony
Yeah.
- [22:23]
Robin Dreeg
And so that's when you understand that and you understand him as a pure predator, it makes it all kind of fall into place. And if you fell into that, that circle of evil, where do you go? Because you really feel like there's again, that analogy of being in the middle of a hurricane. You think all there is in life is a hurricane. You don't see there's a path out. Meanwhile, if you just took two steps in this direction here, it's calm air, but you didn't know what direction to walk in.
- [22:53]
Tony
I'm wondering if we're going to start finding bodies. Pure conjecture. But I mean, because not necessarily. I mean, I know the whole Tupac thing and who knows, maybe that will be something. But I'm wondering more like about, you know, people who aren't famous, just people who went against the grain of Diddyland that were employees and they said, I'm gonna like. There had to be some in this amount of time that thought that they were going to go out and expose him. I would imagine just in sheer numbers, there'd have to be a small percentage that did that and they got stopped.
- [23:29]
Robin Dreeg
Because maybe, you know, I really think that the shields of their screening process of who to accept in were very good. And, and here's how they're good. If you had any semblance of moral reservation at the very first steps and you weren't willing to focus on things over than healthy relationships and good, healthy dialogue. First of all, they self selected out before it even got. I mean, as I always try to. I always do that empathy thing where I place myself in those shoes in different positions. I can imagine. Because, I mean, I've seen really unhealthy people in, in the organizations and things that I've done. Dude, I just don't go around crazy people.
- [24:07]
Tony
Yeah.
- [24:08]
Robin Dreeg
So I would never. And so the healthy ones that could have done that, that would have been bumped off wouldn't have been engaged necessarily. They wouldn't have made it through that first level. That they'd have to be. I think it was really. It was a. It was a Large. It was a, it was a large nation state of Diddy. Yeah, but I think a very controlled nation state of Diddy where you had a lot, a lot of group think. And once you made it to the, the, the white party invite, I think that's, that's it. And then again when you're talking about the celebrities, the thing I thought about this, I wonder if there's any repeat shows of celebrities or where they do one offs or make one and a halfs. Yeah. Because they saw it the, again, the healthy ones, the ones that are actually good actors, good musicians and all these things that are legit. They show up and they show up for a while and then, then when he says it's time for the kids to go to bed or something like that, and then it all kinds of takes that shift and then, and then, then either they left at that point too or their eyes were open, they're like, oh, we're gonna walk away from this nut. Well, this nut house. So yeah, I think it was just really, really isolated. It was. It's. It's a way again. It just. All the elements of cult are there with the exception of he. He's not, he's not making money the same way the cults are. He's got a different business model.
- [25:22]
Tony
That's true. Yeah.
- [25:24]
Robin Dreeg
All the elements are there though.
- [25:25]
Tony
Yeah. I mean it, it, it really is it, it and it, it seems so chaotic, but it had to have been very organized for it to survive as long as it did.
- [25:36]
Robin Dreeg
Chaos is an interesting thing about that too. I don't, like you said, I don't think it was chaos. I think it was nature. At, at a certain point, I don't think it took a lot of thought. I think they just knew how to react. And to every situation, to every person, there was just a, there was a method of operation. And again, it wasn't. They didn't go from zero to, to Diddy world. They. This was, this was evolved over time because again you start out with talent, you start out with being able to do things and having success. And then as it was slowly morphing because of his own, his own crap and his own own unhealthy behavior. Without a check and balance in there, it evolved into this. And over a period of time it just became a natural state of being. Not, not putting it claiming anyone involved here has got psychopathy. But remember, psychopaths and pure predators don't think about how to be that. They just are that. And I think that's what evolved in here. They didn't have to think about how to run the Diddy empire. That just was being, you know, you know, if a problem comes up, here's what we do with problems. If a problem, you know, if some. If we want someone on staff, here's a process for doing that. It just became a rep when you had a. When you have 20 or 30 years of reps down, you don't really think about how to do it. You're just doing it. The people know their roles because the people around him that were close, they've been there a long time, they don't think about how to do things, they just do them. You know, just think about all the movies that we've seen about the Godfather and things like this. Are people given specific instructions or are you giving a look, a nod, and you know what to do?
- [27:03]
Tony
Yeah.
- [27:04]
Robin Dreeg
Someone presents you with information, data, looks at you, looks at his buddy, goes like this. And it's done. See what I mean?
- [27:11]
Tony
Yeah, it's just same thing. It's. It's a language of its own really. In a lot of ways, it is.
- [27:16]
Robin Dreeg
Just responding to the unhealthy environment around them. Solve the problems that they pop up craving.
- [27:23]
Tony
Non Stop True Crime Updates Press subscribe now and get the latest cases, analysis and expert commentary delivered straight to your feed only from the Hidden Killers podcast and True Crime Today.