Robin Drake (5:08)

Boy, I've gone full circle on this one a couple times, Tony, because we keep getting more data coming in and I'm boiling it down to this right now with more data coming in, we're starting to see a lot more smoke. When I first started seeing this, I was like, I was thinking we got a rare occur, very rare occurrence of a potential psychotic break because some data points are going in that direction because of patterns of his past behavior and all those things. But as we start, and as Brian Etten's doing a great job of seeing smoke, we might not have quite the psychotic break I was originally thinking. Because if so, psychotic breaks typically, if Someone is having an episode, they're very random. Paranoia goes in there, which we're seeing some things with him wearing his vest and all those things that have been reported. But what's pulling me away from the psychotic break and, and we might have a pattern of really bad, abhorrent behavior that led to this is the fact that all of his actions of apparently being paranoid were centered around the courthouse. And so I'm thinking we're going to find out a lot of dirty things, you know, in the days and weeks to come. And I think, I think he had a plan. I think he'd been playing it for a while, because that's where I'm leaning to right now. I don't, I'm. I'm less on the side of the psychotic break thing. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it.

Tony Bruski (6:37)

Almost the courthouse being a triggering factor.

Robin Drake (6:41)

Yeah, yeah.

Tony Bruski (6:42)

And that's an interesting thing considering when you consider the chambers itself are at play in this conversation of the allegations that things were happening in the judge's chamber itself. How much do you think. I mean, obviously we are missing a big piece here because, well, Kevin Mullins is dead, the judge. And the allegations are that some of these things took place in his chambers. He is not listed in that civil suit, but obviously another individual is and there has been charges there. But the fact that his own office, his own chambers basically being listed as is a place where some of these things took place and there has been allegations. Again, Kevin's dead. How much are we missing here because he's dead. Before I ask too many other questions.

Robin Drake (7:34)

Yeah. I think he's going to be obviously a centerpiece of the puzzle because that's where the seat of power was in the power of control. You know, I started getting tinges of Alec Murdoch case on this.

Tony Bruski (7:44)

Yeah.

Robin Drake (7:45)

Just because of that power, control and small town vibe, you know, kind of almost a little. A little like what you would call it, Richard Allen and Delphi, small town. And so when you see again, as investigators, hopefully what they're doing is, and I don't have any reason not to believe it is when you see smoke and you have allegations, you have to run all those allegations down. And even though you have a seat of power at the top which is controlling things, there's going to be people around them, especially since there was charges against someone else, one of the bailiffs, I think it was, you know, in this case. And so I'm. I'm hoping we're going to get some data leakage on this one because his behavior, the sheriff's behavior changed at a very certain point and it became very focused, even though the end that observed paranoia became very focused again around that courthouse, around a lot of boys, a lot of, a lot of crazy, unhealthy behavior isn't there that seem to pop up and spring up. I think again, if I'm throwing on my conjecture hat, which is all we have at this point is that he all of a sudden had an aha moment. And when his aha moment happened, he then put on his investigator hat and took a deeper dive and he didn't like what he found. And I think again, pure conjecture at this point. That leads me more to the, to the, to the plan rather than a psychotic break.

Tony Bruski (9:12)

Yeah.

Stacy Cole (9:13)

Robin?

Robin Drake (9:14)

Yes, Stacey?

Stacy Cole (9:15)

So I've got a question, and obviously it's a very broad question. Do you think this is going on in other municipalities across the nation? Do you think this is a one off? Do you think that there are elements of this just based on what you've seen in your career? Do you think that this is something that's going on in other communities, that there's just this bubbling cauldron of something that's about to blow in another community?

Robin Drake (9:39)

So I don't think it's systemic as a quick answer, because it's just not. But at the same time, the old rule of if you see one, there's probably 10 others. And so and typically what we do and what we do here and what media does is we, it's, it's easier to kind of find and focus on the important behavior. And one of the reasons we do that is so we can prevent it in other areas too, because in each case that we look at and examine, there's red flags that led up to this. And one of the things we do as, as both opinion pieces that we do as well as investigative pieces that we try to, I think, blend the two together here is bring light to it so we can prevent these things from happening and all the cases. But that being said, I don't think systemic because why are these things not systemic? Because a lot of people have to know. And by and large, as a species, we are good people. We want to do moral and ethical things. One of the reasons we have laws is to have accountability for each other. And you know, we are our brother's keeper. And so in these larger municipalities, it's harder to do these things. But are there smaller areas where there's family control for periods of time? There's And a slow boiling frog, which a little bit of bad behavior here over a period of time, escalating, becomes more acceptable and more. More and more acceptable until you have one person that finally says, I've had enough, or they move in from out of town and they're not part of that cult. And so. But again, long answer to I don't think systemic, but I do. I think there's others. Yes, there's most. Most. It's hard not to imagine there isn't others.

Tony Bruski (11:14)

It makes you wonder just, you know, how much of it, you know, they all kind of. When it happens, it comes to the surface at different times. It doesn't seem like this is coming to the surface because of any sort of other existential factors in society. I mean, more so other than, you know, this event exposed it, that there already was an event that exposed it. The initial lawsuit that was filed, and then others realizing, oh, gosh, we haven't heard a lot of anything from anybody within the law enforcement area, within the courthouse area, within anything of the legal judicial system. People who work in that building, basically. We've heard a lot from other people on the outside. A lot of women have come forward with these allegations of coercion tied to their legal outcomes. Why do you think it is that we haven't heard a lot of, I don't know, tampering that down if it's not true? You would think that if some of these things were not really going on, you would hear a lot more. That's not how our courthouse works. Works. No, we. We hear like dead silence. It seems to be a lot of crickets about what actually goes on in this courthouse from anyone who's working the front desk to, you know, the judge.

Robin Drake (12:29)

Yeah. What people don't say is almost as empower. Most importantly. Yeah, important as what people do say. You can learn a lot by what is said and what is not said, timing of all those things. And yeah, silence can be deafening and can be very revealing as well. And again, you can't jump to a conclusion. But you can also say we need to take a deeper look, because why isn't that happening? What's the goal and objective of not saying something? Is it because they're really well organized in their media releases and their public publicity people, or is because they're deathly afraid? You know, fear is always the greatest motivator of all of us, and it's what keeps people from saying things is fear. And then we rationalize our behaviors. So could all this be going on? It's possible.

Tony Bruski (13:15)

And I want to talk about that. The rationalizing of the behaviors. And I'm not saying, like, everybody in this courthouse is doing something wrong, but there's a lot of people I'm going to assume in the courthouse who have some knowledge of the wrongdoing or at least the inkling of it. And it's like, well, what am I going to do about it? I work over here at the mailroom, as if that's even a position anymore. But other ancillary parts around the building where you're not. They weren't involved in these things. But, you know, rumors travel and you go, oh, I think I know that that's going on. But there's nothing they could have done about it if they wanted to stay employed. And there's that pressure to be quiet because if you were to make an accusation and you can't prove it, well, then you're gonna get sued. And so there's a lot of reasons to be quiet. But at the same point, is it. I guess I'm wondering how much when you're living in an environment like that day after day, is it living in fear of exp. Or is it just. It's so normalized. I'm wondering how people in that courthouse are feeling right now as all this goes on on the outside. We look at this going, oh, my gosh, like, this is. This is twisted stuff here. And if we were to assume that others have some knowledge here and are, you know, doing exactly what I just said, Are they living in fear? Or. I'm wondering if they're looking at this as, oh, come on, this happens everywhere. The rationalizing of the behavior, the. Yeah, it's not to going good, but I wonder how much of that goes on. That also further solidifies the thought that there's this level of unhealthy craziness around it. But we can't quite accept the level to which it is because it's so extreme. So we normalize it down to another place.

Robin Drake (15:00)

It's probably a little bit of everything. So here's one of the laws of human nature is we're always going to act in our own best interests in terms of our safety, security and prosperity from our own point of view, from whatever context and situation we're living in. And so all these individuals are acting in what they think is their best interest of. And comes down to fear. Fear of reprisal, fear of not being able to move. And what that looks like to that individual could be very different. So say you have one individual that is waiting that hey, something was going on. So they're going to keep their mouth shut because they're fearful that someone's going to find out that they were involved. You can have others that had no idea anything's going on. But now they're hearing these allegations and they're fearful of being connected in some way. So they're going to keep their heads down. There's all kinds of reasons why people are taking the actions they're taking. And it's, it's hard to predict exactly what's causing it. But we're getting data on all this and so the rationalizing of it. We rationalize things when we want to believe, we want to believe what we want to believe. And if we have a job, because remember, we're going to act in our own best interest, as I said, for ourselves and our families, those we care about. And if we don't feel we have other options, if we feel like we're trapped and we only get an inkling of this, this might be going on. Isn't it going on? If I had an, if I had an option, if I don't have direct first hand knowledge, granted, there's not going to be a lot of people that have very, very clear first hand knowledge. If anything was going on with the judge or anyone else, it's going to be a very, very small, tight circle. Now there's going to be leakage of other people that might think or might not think something was going on. What happens is, if you don't want to believe it, what do we do with our confirmation bias? We're going to look at and only take it in data. It's going to help us rationalize nothing was going on so we can feel better about who we are. Because we don't want to be the type of person that allows abhorrent behavior to go on around us or even be associated with that as in a workplace, because that will destroy our own self image, it'll destroy our own being. And so that's how we as human beings will rationalize otherwise really, really important behavior. And then you cascade on top of it. Group think, well, if no one else is saying anything, it must be all right. And I like Billy Bob Joe, he's a great guy.

Tony Bruski (17:15)

Billy Bob Joe's great.

Stacy Cole (17:17)

I love Billy Bob Joe.

Robin Drake (17:18)

You know, he's a half step above schmuckatelli. But these people, you know, they will look to others to, to gauge what their behavior and reaction should be. And if you have someone you respect in your Life, you have someone that has time, a lot more time in a position than you do, and you see what they're doing and their behaviors are. And then you try to understand them and say, well, this is a really good family person. They have a really good standing, they're really good in their church, or good morals and ethics. And if they're not saying anything here, it must be okay. And so I'll just look the other way because maybe there's no other way to look. That's how we as human beings do this. Because if we did anything other than this, we'd be invalidating ourselves. We don't like doing that. It hurts us psychologically.

Stacy Cole (18:05)

You know, Tony, you and I have worked in places and nothing like this went on. But you and I have worked in similar places where there were things going on and people kind of looked the other way and it was a family organization. You just, you kind of get into this mode where it's self preservation. I need this job. I need to continue with what I'm doing. This is my career. And. But yet at some point you do break. I mean, Robin, you're 100% correct. At one point you just. The volcano just blows and it, you gotta go, you gotta get out, you gotta figure out something different because you can't tolerate it. But it's amazing how humans can just do the status quo because it's just easier. It's just easier.

Robin Drake (18:47)

And so, Stacy, to your point, this is exactly what you need to do. Not you, but people need to do. If you're going to be an investigator, but going to be an interviewer is, is what we just did here is we just did a very deep dive on empathy. Because now that you understand those people, again, if there's anything going on, but it doesn't matter regardless, they're going to be interviewing all these people in that courthouse. They're going to be interviewing people that are surrounding these allegations. And if you're going to go in and interview someone, you can't go in an interview thinking in your head, oh, if you let this go on, you're really, really a horrible individual and a horrible human being. And I'm going to sit here and judge a living hell out of you for this. Do you think the likelihood of you making a connection and them sharing with you all that was going on is higher? Low. It's extremely low. So. So you have to go in with an understanding of what would compel someone to not say something or we just went through it and then you can empathize with it, don't. It doesn't mean you agree that it was the right or wrong thing to do. Just understand the decision process. We walked a mile in their shoes and said, hey, this was a really tough situation you're in. You know, what can we do together? Maybe to move the ball forward a little bit, to right some wrongs that others did, you know, together. So that's how we do these interviews. This is how we get to the truth. Is always thinking in terms of what can I do to inspire someone to share the truth with me before they have an opportunity to deceive. And that's how you do it. You dive deep to understand them. And so that you don't do the worst thing in the world is take a look at some shame and say, hey, look at your shame. Now tell me everything. It never works.

Stacy Cole (20:22)

It doesn't work. They put up their walls even harder. They reinforce those walls to keep you from getting the information you're looking for.

Tony Bruski (20:30)

I want to talk about the confirmation bias that could exist if the trial does take place there in Lecter County. I know they're talking about possibly moving it. And I think you can look at it from both ways in some perspectives. But I want to look at it. I don't think a lot of people are seeing it. One could look at and go, oh, well, if this is happening in their town, then they're gonna find him guilty no matter what. Just because I don't know what I'm wondering about in the confirmation bias here is in this kind of small knit community, you don't necessarily wanna believe these sort of things are going on. And a lot of the victims that you have here have criminal records, substance abuse issues, CPS involvement. You know, they're not clean slates. And in no way does that mean that these people are lying or making things up. No, these are oftentimes the victims of these sort of things. So. But again, that's asking human beings to understand, you know, psychology and think more than one thought ahead. That being said, you're going to have a lot of witnesses here that are as. Again, I'm not trying to denigrate these people at all. But if you're on the jury and you're seeing them come in, you're gonna. Some are gonna go, oh, they're kind of icky. They're kinda, you know, I wouldn't do that. I'm not. I wouldn't. I don't have a record. I didn't have this problem. I didn't have that Problem. And people will go for that sort of a bias. And I could see in some cases, then discrediting them mentally, whether they deserve it or not. Or just automatically doing that. Because, again, they don't wanna believe this is going on in town. And preserving that image in their mind. Whether, you know, even though it is going on in their own town and there is evidence for it. I wonder how much that kind of an angle. And that could be an issue here. If they do keep this trial in Lecter County.

Robin Drake (22:28)

It's definitely something that the lawyers deal with. And again, I'm not a lawyer. Defense prosecutor. But one way you counter that, at least as a behavior guide. This is the way I counter that is how do you. I mean, so let's think about it. How would you overcome a negative confirmation bias with someone who's saying that this person did abhorrent things? We knew the judge was doing this, you know, sexual favors for lighter sentences or whatever it was. And this person's got a really shady, creepy background. But see, if you're painting it in that picture of right now of shady, creepy background. And you're trying to discredit it, What I do is. What we do here all the time is, well, let's take a deeper look at this life arc. You know, we'll go with Sally Jane on this one. Sally Jane, tell me about what it was like growing up for you. So. So in other words, what they do is you. You humanize the individual. And then when you start humanizing that individual, the words they say mean a lot more than just some subjective, you know, thing that is just a title and label of older drug addicts. Their own alcoholic. Well, that's just in. That's dehumanizing someone. If you humanize them, the words coming out of their mouth tend to mean a lot more. Because again, the. The. The. The defense attorney or whatever is going to walk them in the. In their shoes so you can understand them. And then the other key thing is to demonstrate that this is not someone with an ax to grind. This is someone who's actually making amends in their lives. They're just merely laying out facts and details. And here's how you do it. You have to trust them.

Tony Bruski (24:01)

Yeah.

Robin Drake (24:01)

And the way you trust people is, again, they have to show transparency, openness, and vulnerability. Those behaviors inspire someone to believe you. So when you can actually own your behavior, yes, I was this person. Here's the things I did wrong in my life. Here's what I've gone in my life. And they don't try to sell you on anything. They allow you to make the choice on how you think they are now. Because I've seen some of these people have actually reformed their lives pretty well. A lot of people when they go through some trauma, they reformed their lives well. So. And if you have a lot of allegations or enough allegations that you're going to have a couple of these individuals that have actually been on this journey of. All right. I started out a beautiful human being like we all do. I went through some real good trauma that really destroyed me and I hit my bottom. When I hit the bottom, I was in the jail system, in the court system and all these things and then all these horrendous things happened to me. But I crawled myself up out of here and here's just the facts, man. Boom. And then the jury makes a decision. So instead of just saying a drug addict, we now have an arc of a human being that they have a lot more credibility now. Because who hasn't hit their own bottom?

Sean Combs (25:01)

Yeah.

Robin Drake (25:02)

Who hasn't done these things? So that's what I would do.

Tony Bruski (25:05)

Asking me the job of the, the attorneys to really, to sell it to the jury. No matter. Do you think something like this though needs to be moved out of that county no matter what? Just because it's just too close to home, it's too tight knit, it's too small. I mean you're talking about literally having the, the trial in the place where there's allegations of all this corruption going on.

Robin Drake (25:27)

I mean my humble opinion would probably help it because of those things. Because fear, you want people to not be fearful and waiting for confirmation bias one way or the other. Which is why we have a jury. Juries hopefully are mitigating all these things when they're doing jury selection because you cannot avoid. And you, if, if, and if you're like us all, we all have confirmation bias, it's okay. But why we have loving critics in our lives, why we have juries of peers. It's why we have prosecution defenses. It's, it's to help us overcome our human failties of the confirmation bias. And. But yeah, I think moving the venue would probably help. But again, I'm not the expert in that area.

Tony Bruski (26:07)

Yeah, I, I would, I don't know that how you couldn't move. You don't even have to. I would feel like in a case like this, if there's ever a case that calls for it where the corruption is literally in the building that you're going to try and get the amongst pieces of the infrastructure that would have been in place for allowing some of this stuff to happen. And let's say they've cleaned house. Let's say it's all fresh and so clean, clean, clean. But it's still, you know, the optics, all of that it needs, you know, they have to think about that.

Robin Drake (26:36)

I mean, just think about this. Not making the attempt would also be pretty telling too, would it?

Tony Bruski (26:40)

Yeah, yeah.

Stacy Cole (26:42)

You know, but these people run into all of these people at church and the grocery store and, and even if they did clean house, everybody knows somebody in this community. So even though it's a jury of their peers, I think there's still that. That pressure from the community that you want to protect the infrastructure that's been there for probably a century. Everybody knows everybody. You know, I just.

Robin Drake (27:05)

And the level of personalization, like we said, you know, if you have a personal relationship with someone and, you know, and you're going to rationalize how you. Because it all is going to take is. Is probable doubt, you know, in one person. It's, it's. It's a trick. I think it's a very tricky situation, But I definitely think it helps moving away from there as much as possible to get a jury pool with less knowledge of this. Again, everyone's gonna know about. In that whole area, but just less per. I guess a better way to put it, less personal connection to this.

Tony Bruski (27:36)

What do you make of this? Several interviewees describe being warned not to report the misconduct. This is an allegation that has been made. And of course. Yeah, I mean, there's. You know, don't. Because, you know, we'll ruin your. It wasn't just we'll ruin your reputation or no one will believe you. The allegation is that some were told they'd be found dead over a mountain. That's kind of a. That is. That's a harsh one. That's a harsh thing to say to somebody after. Well, anything for any reason, but especially after you violated them in a horrible way. You talk about this, you'll be found dead somewhere.

Stacy Cole (28:15)

Seems like the mafia, doesn't it?

Tony Bruski (28:17)

A little bit. And I'm wondering, okay, just threats or have they ever carried that out retrospectively? Looking on this, that kind of makes me want to look at suspicious deaths in the area over the last handful of years, like over the. However long these people have been there or even longer. Because, look, look, usually things like this just don't happen in a vacuum. It's not always just one person that decides to completely change the way that this ecosystem works usually in these judicial type systems when there's systematic corruption or generational corruption, it's just that it's generational. It keeps going. Well, the former ones did it this way too. Look at the new perks of the job you have, Mr. Judge. That's a perk. I mean, yeah, I mean, in some horrible, horrible way, if you have a very sick mind, some of these things people are like, oh wow, I can get away with this. It makes me wonder, would you have. Are you suspicious at all about. If in fact that threat was made about. I wonder if they ever did carry that out at some point in time, if there's some legitimacy to that threat.

Robin Drake (29:23)

Yeah, it's definitely something. I think they need to investigate that as well. Because in order for a threat to be effective, it has to have teeth. And how do threats have teeth? Well, they have to have a past example of it being just that. When I saw that death threat as well. Well, and even so, even because this goes to the sheriff starting to wear the vest around and him making the claims that he feared for himself and his wife, his daughter, that seemed very odd to me. I think that's why people were. We're looking at that whole psychotic break and paranoia maybe. Unless, unless he's. He found out something about those threats being actually very tangible, very real, because that's what gives things teeth and legs. And again, but that happens if it is systemic over time. And it's a, it's a known established fact that if that threat is made, it has the ability to be carried out upon. And I have this example. Whether the example is factual in your own mind or it's just urban legend, it still has the same power over you. So urban legend could play a part in it, but it definitely needs to be flushed out all these things. I mean, just think about every time I see cases like this, I just, just think about every time we're saying here, this, this needs to be looked at, this person needs to be interviewed. I'm just thinking about the bandwidth of individuals that need to be interviewed, processed, assimilated, and who's doing that and what's their objectivity.

Stacy Cole (30:44)

They'd have to call in outside people to do all of this. Just, you know, I mean, haul somebody in, put up a trailer outside and they, I can't talk. Literally live there for like a year or two to interview people. There's no way that somebody inside this community can be doing the interviews. There's just no way.

Tony Bruski (31:01)

Yeah, I, it's, there's just yeah, this is just such a mess in that community. I want to go there and just hang out for a week and have coffee at the local diner and talk.

Robin Drake (31:11)

Vibe, you know, I think it's. And that's why I love you cited Brian Entn at the very beginning. You know, that's a really good job of getting the vibe on the ground, because walking the ground, you know, as I used to say, touch it, taste it, feel it, because when you get the energy there and you actually do the interaction, it gives a lot of content, context to the data we see from, you know, from 30, 000 miles. 30, 000 miles. That's a long way. You know, from 3, 000 miles away to that. But it's. That's why it's really, really important to walk the ground interaction to feel, you know, the. The. The. Just the tenor and tempo of the people around you. It goes a long way.

Tony Bruski (31:48)

Yeah. There's some very interesting interviews that he's done with some of the folks there. His channel is Brian Anton Investigates, if you want to check them out in their entirety. Let us know your thoughts in the comments section on this case. We would love to hear that. Let's move on now to the David story, the Celeste story, whatever you want to call it story. A teenage girl's dead in the front trunk of a Tesla the Frunk. And that vehicle registered to rising music star David. You see him listed as D4VD. No one reports her missing, though the car sits in plain view for weeks. And when her body is finally discovered, there's silence. No public statement, no arrest, no answers. As of right now, we're gonna be joined again. Robin Drake, retired FBI Special Agent, former Chief of the Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis program, to continue discussing this story. I know people are going, wait a second, she was reported missing. But let's go back to that for a second. She was a year earlier, and then she was back at home again. So it's appearing at this point in time that she came back. She was on her security camera at her family home. So somebody knew she was back. That disappears to be a factual piece of the story. Now, at this point, there wasn't necessarily a second report of being missing. So I'm wondering, was she ever missing? And let's talk about that for a little bit. The. When someone goes missing, we have this every single day. Only certain ones seem to get the attention or qualify for the Amber Alert or qualify for whatever alert they're gonna put out there. Let's talk about that in our system of what we have going on here of people when they go missing and is it effective in any way, shape or form for helping, helping people be found when they are going missing, Especially in a situation like this.

Robin Drake (33:46)

Boy missing. What's the other term for it? That there's. You can claim someone's missing or they've been. There's two things. There's one that triggers an emergency, immediate response. The other actually has to take time.

Tony Bruski (33:59)

There's different qualifiers in.

Robin Drake (34:01)

Yeah. And so yeah, just claiming someone's missing, it doesn't really trigger much at all obviously. So because again you, you get these confirmat. Again we just talking about confirmation biases. So the people in someone's life, including the person themselves, that if they're aspiring to do X, Y and Z, they want to do these great things. So you're going to rationalize the behavior way that hey, they're not really missing, they're just interacting with so and so they're making, they're making some, they're doing some networking over here. They're doing all these things. And so I think that muddles the entire reporting as well as well as just being surrounded by unhealthy people doing stupid things. But yeah, missing people never ever gets the attention it needs. Especially when young and teenage see this is how people get trafficked.

Tony Bruski (34:48)

Yeah. Or not. Or not. White and blonde. That, that too. That doesn't seem to get the traction there either.

Robin Drake (34:55)

No. And people get trafficked into these systems because of these. This problem with reporting and being able to lock people on to them right away and try to track them down. So.

Tony Bruski (35:06)

And it's just. Yeah, it's a weird thing that we don't seem to have a very. I don't know when it happens. The passion isn't there. The passion's there once like they're dead. Or it gets like, oh, maybe this could be something really horrible. It's a weird thing in society that we don't have the urgency to do it when we could actually make a difference and find the person alive versus when they're not. But again, society would need to know about the person being missing as well. And if the family is not paying enough attention to their own human being, it's hard for anyone to really know if those red flags aren't being raised. And unfortunately that's usually the starting point. The people who are supposed to care aren't caring.

Robin Drake (35:50)

And look at this confirmation bias too. So if you know that your person that is missing has a relationship with a Celebrity. Pseudo celebrity or something like that. What's our confirmation bias? Oh, they're just hanging out with them and they're being well taken care of. And so are they really missing? So I think that whole, you know, attention aspect of it and just think about. I'm gonna do our thought experiment. So say we know our next door neighbor's daughter happens to be friends with. We've heard rumor, not necessarily confirmed. We heard rumor they're actually friends with some high. You know, say there's friends with Taylor Swift, and all of a sudden they go missing. Or you haven't seen them around for a couple weeks, but you heard other. They're friends with Taylor Swift. Oh, they're probably with Taylor Swift then. And, you know, she's so secretive. She doesn't really tell who her posse is at the time. So they're probably just. See how that rationalization goes.

Tony Bruski (36:43)

Yeah.

Robin Drake (36:44)

As opposed to they're missing. We haven't seen them in two weeks. Holy f. We got to do something now. True. How that kind of plays into who their associates are and who they are. It messes with you. Messy law enforcement, too, because then law enforcement will start rationalizing it away also.

Tony Bruski (37:01)

Yeah. And when you have. And you do have a lot that do come back. And that's the other part of this is when do you know if it. What level of seriousness do you take it at? In some cases, there's been some scuttlebutt. Cause I like to use terms of different eras over the weekend about David and about him as of right now. And I think this is important, important to state and contextually to state, not named as a murder suspect in Celeste Riviera Hernandez case. Now. Not named as a suspect. That doesn't really mean much as of right now. There's a difference here. There's a big difference between being cleared and not being named as a suspect. No one has been cleared yet, and no one has been named a suspect. Obviously, there's gotta be a suspect at some point in time, you would think. And, you know, people do get cleared at some point, but he's neither been cleared. He's not been named a suspect, but neither has anyone else. Let's talk about that a little bit. And just the state as to where this is sitting as of this recording, no charges, no clearance, no nothing. The fact that he hasn't been cleared as of right now, but not named a suspect doesn't mean anything. Now that we're however many weeks into this.

Robin Drake (38:32)

Maybe, you know, you want to. So my mind immediately Goes to. All right, so I always start with the baseline of everyone's doing the job the way they should be doing the job. And if they haven't been naming him yet, because they don't have either need to name him yet, or they're probably trying to run down all the associates and all the other people that are probably possibly connected to him, the event and the things that have happened. And they don't want anyone to go, go, go, you know, go silent, go dark, go and go missing as they're doing the investigation. Because as soon as you name one person, then everyone else might flee, everyone else might run, they might go dark. Or so you don't know what the effect has. And so it's. I'm. I'm going to assume that the glass is half full. And it's a very strategic move and a very purposeful move is why he hasn't been named yet. But definitely not written off. I. The fact they haven't written anyone off says that, that they got a lot of data coming in. I mean, how could you not. I mean, she was in his car. And I don't. And remember, I'm always looking at the age of people. First of all, we have never covered anyone who's smart. And I don't care how many people you know and I know we get right. And we get dinged on this sometimes too, because people will keep referring to someone's degrees, they'll talk about their IQs, but I don't give a rat's ass about any of that because is all these people lack complete emotional intelligence. Zero on the emotional intelligence side, which is the true measure of a human being and how we interact with society around us. You cascade low EQ emotional intelligence with the fact that you're 20 years old and younger. It says you're a complete moron when doing stupid things. And so putting those two things together, there's going to be a lot of leakage. I think there's a lot of data coming in and leads coming in from the surrounding posse of this individual that they're trying to run down. And they might just have limited bandwidth of the number of people that can do that because we know that they. They're conducting searches. There is no doubt that they're conducting searches. They're doing a lot of analysis of that. That might be another thing that might be waiting on too, DNA. You know, if you don't have, you know, Cash Patel flying across the country to run your DNA for you, you know, back in the, in the FBI Jet. It might take a bit of time, you know, so.

Tony Bruski (40:48)

Yeah, true. But he's got to get his boots on and everything, too. He has to let.

Robin Drake (40:51)

So again, you know, just look at the reality and logistics of the notor variety of a case, you know. You know, these poor guys, you know, are doing the best they can, you know. You know, Cash Patel goes across country, Bongino, to get the assassin of Charlie Kirk's DNA, you know, personalized back to the FBI lab. These guys might be waiting in the queue for another three months.

Tony Bruski (41:11)

Isn't it great that they're personally doing it, though? Doesn't it make you feel much more safe?

Stacy Cole (41:15)

I feel very secure. Yep.

Robin Drake (41:17)

Literally, you, you, as I say, you just sit back and watch a show, man. Let them.

Stacy Cole (41:23)

There's not enough popcorn, honey.

Robin Drake (41:25)

Let them, you know, and so I. Because I always have such a pragmatic view of having been in executive management of the FBI as well as a street agent for so long, I really know how these organizations work for the good sometimes and for the not so good and slow sometimes. And so a very pragmatic Robin says the slowness of this could literally be they have DNA. They're waiting for a DNI DNA positive hit linking people together. They're doing the same thing. Cell phone data analysis also takes them roughly around the same amount of time. And so if you don't have, you know, the head of an organization running across country for you, getting the necessary things or your cues so backed up because the Cash Mattels dropped in everyone else's. Everyone else's cases in front of you, it could back you up. I have literally have no idea. You know, I'm just saying that the reality of the amount of time it takes for these super investigative things that we're used to seeing on criminal minds happen like this, we have the capabilities to do the investigations, but the time lapse between getting it, analyzing it, and coming to conclusions can be decades apart sometimes, unfortunately. So that might be playing into here.

Tony Bruski (42:37)

It's just like, you look at this case and you go, come on. I mean, couldn't we have something by now? But. But. So I know we're saying not smart human beings, but if these people manage to evade being caught on camera and nobody's arrested yet, I mean, I guess it's got to do. Unless it's just pure dumb luck or they're waiting and they got their eyes on them going, well, they're not going anywhere. Like, we know where they're at and they're waiting, you know, if they were to flee, they're ready to, you know, to stop them.

Robin Drake (43:06)

So. So let's. I'm so sorry. Let's look at this. You know, you say, dumb luck. When was the last time we've covered any single case? And we said, oh, they were really smart.

Sean Combs (43:17)

No.

Tony Bruski (43:19)

No. And that's the thing where I'm like, it's been this long. You got the. The most advanced vehicle in the world that has the body in it. You're in a very populated area. There's cameras everywhere. Where. How many weeks in. How the hell do we not have the person arrested who was driving the car and parked it there?

Robin Drake (43:37)

So now we could actually have the case of. So, yeah, these people are stupid. The criminals and the murderers. At the same time, though, you know, you don't know what you're dealing with. On the law enforcement side, we've seen all over the spectrum. We got guys that can catch people in 37 hours, and we got people that are going to take 37 years.

Tony Bruski (43:54)

I mean, and I'm not trying to be critical. I'm just like, what the hell is going on? Like, why? I mean, and there might be a good reason for it. At the very beginning of the Coburger investigation, too. We were very critical about it, and rightful. Surely it's. So in some ways, I think the PR management wasn't the wisest for that community in crisis at that moment in time.

Stacy Cole (44:15)

But look at Gilgo, too. I mean, why.

Tony Bruski (44:17)

Well, that's a whole other different level of corruption over there. That's like a different animal. That's like a different zoo. It's not even the same remote thing. But this is something where maybe there is a reason. Maybe there is. They really want to make sure they have the case as solid as they can before they go in and make.

Robin Drake (44:37)

And also. So, you know, we don't know the reps they have, you know, the local law enforcement, because that comes into too. We saw it in the Coburger case. You know, if you have a smaller police department that the last murder they did before Coburg, I think it was 14 years before that murder, that homicide. And they had a. Is a quadruple and they'd only done a single.

Tony Bruski (44:55)

Yeah.

Robin Drake (44:56)

So I don't know the resources of this, well, investigation we're talking about.

Tony Bruski (45:00)

You know, this is Beverly. I don't know the house was what, in Beverly Hill? I don't know what the. But it's LAPD that's on it.

Robin Drake (45:07)

So they got some reps here.

Tony Bruski (45:10)

You know, they have resources that are beyond, you know, reproach of most departments. So that's. Again, I just. I don't know.

Robin Drake (45:21)

So LAPD's got. I know, I know. I know a few people, like the top psychiatrist, psychologists. I mean, the criminal psychologists in there know him. He's. He's a really good guy. So, yeah, lapd. So here's. So now, again, I'm sorry that my brain was. Was fogging on who was actually doing it. So now that you weigh that data point in there, I'm. I'm thinking it's. Now, granted, I'm still going to go on the time to get these returns on all the investigative stuff because of not having people flying across the country for you. But that being said, that they do have their own crime lab. They do have their own resources. I mean, LAP is like nypd. They got a lot of.

Tony Bruski (45:55)

Yeah.

Robin Drake (45:56)

So silent to this point. I think it's calculated.

Tony Bruski (46:00)

Yeah. And people, I think, are chomping at the bit because everybody likes to bring up people and then tear them down. And I think there's a lot that people are. For whatever reason, they're going, well, it must be. David. I don't know about that. I have serious reservations thinking that this guy killed this person. And I have serious reservations about a lot of the accusations that are flying around online, too, about the relationship there. I don't know that it was a romantic relationship. I'd love to see some actual evidence that shows that it was. I don't think we've seen it. We've seen what, to me, looks like a male friend with a female friend. One is certainly younger, but if there is nothing sexual going on there, 15 and 20 is not that huge of a difference. You can be friends. You don't. Yeah.

Robin Drake (46:58)

That is so perfect. I mean. I mean, you are saying everything exactly right. Let's go where the Levitans brings us. Right now. We don't have data that supports one thing, the other, and. And as dumb as we say the people are, it would be super dumb to dump a body in the trunk of your own car and abandon it. I mean, just. But again, dumb things happen, but.

Tony Bruski (47:20)

Dumb things happen.

Robin Drake (47:21)

But that's what you do. I mean, really good job. Hey, here's what.

Tony Bruski (47:24)

He was on tour, though, too, so, I mean, like, physically, he couldn't have even really done it from. You know. But it's not to say he couldn't have a hand in it. I don't know. But that's what we don't know. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Robin Drake (47:35)

But hey, so now we can do our little thought experiment here, too. So since we don't have data supports that, it seems just to make sense it would. And it's LAPD handling it. And they got a lot of reps in doing this. Granted, they don't have. Have the analysis back necessarily yet of doing the DNA tests and doing cell phone triangulation. Especially in Beverly Hills when you got a lot of cell phones all over the place and potentially a lot of DNA. Especially if this is a social guy, there's gonna be a lot of DNA in that car to analyze. Possibly. And so putting all those things together and a lack of data, there just might not be, you know, charges coming because. Yeah, what's it yet? And then they're. Maybe there's no charges against David yet because they're trying to figure out who that DNA does tie to, because maybe it doesn't tie to him.

Tony Bruski (48:19)

Yeah. Who has act. I mean, he. If he's cooperating with police. And we have no reason to believe that he's not as of right now, from what we've understood, he is, you know, who has access to your car 100%.

Stacy Cole (48:30)

Right.

Tony Bruski (48:31)

And I think that would be. That's going to give you a lot of answers right there. And I'm guessing they're trying to go down those roads. I mean, and could it. Again, we're just kind of in speculation land here, too, you know, could it be that maybe somebody who had access to his car is not exactly findable at this moment in time, and nobody knows where that person is, and that's why they're not really going. Going, you know, full throttle here, saying, here's who we're going after to further prevent them from going deeper into wherever they're at if. If they're already not in the unknown.

Robin Drake (49:02)

Yeah. And so especially with no charges coming against David yet, the. The probability of, again, they haven't written him off yet, but the probability that they're running everything down is really, really high. And especially if you're dealing with a couple of individuals that have a very big social networking footprint, there's a lot of people to run down. There's a lot of leads to run down. In other words, there's a lot of people. Because the first thing you're doing when you're investigating a homicide is. Is who is connected to the individual, because 95. I think it's 95 of the people that are murdered. They have. There's some sort of connection between the murderer and the victim. And so if you have you know, the victim, the girl who's got so many of these social media connections, you're gonna have to run them all down. And especially if you can't link it solidly to one individual yet you got to run all those down. And even if you can. So think about this. Even if you can link it to a certain degree with one individual, when it goes to court, you have to be able to say how you outruled everyone else. So it's a lot.

Tony Bruski (50:03)

It is a lot when you're trying to figure out who all this is. I mean, the fact that these people are so David has said his world, his people, I believe is the way that he phrased it, are online. He's of the online world. He was a gamer, he was a this, he was a that, and that's the ecosystem to which he operates and lives. That would tell me if there is anything. If he has anything to do with her disappearance or her murder or death or accident, whatever the hell it was. We didn't even know if it was technically a hummus aside yet. I would imagine that it'd be very hard. It'd be very. Would you be surprised if there's not anything in the digital sphere of a footprint on this guy, if he has anything to do with it?

Robin Drake (50:55)

Nothing surprises me anymore. I think the thing that's really. Thank God that the only thing we have is the vehicle. Because I mean, think about this. If she had been found by a tree in the woods or even buy on a street corner in a neighborhood, that'd be much harder because. Because now at least we can rule it into. Someone had to have access to that vehicle. And so. But yeah, the volume of people and connections that they're running down at this point, even if you can. As I was just thinking, as you were speaking, I was even thinking about this. You know, I'm on. I'm on Discord for a couple of the online gaming things I do in. In the VR world. I play this stupid VR game with. With people all over and no one has any idea who anyone is yet. I have very close relationships, you know, with people online where you can have great. With people. And I just think about this in this context.

Tony Bruski (51:41)

Yeah.

Robin Drake (51:41)

Of, you know, there's a lot of people that are going to have close relationships that cops are trying to run down. Who is this? Yeah, all I got is an anonymous name through some meta account and they're trying to figure out who the hell that is because there's a close relationship here and they don't know who it is? Is it this person? This person? So it's a world of challenges. There is no doubt.

Stacy Cole (52:03)

Do people know who you are in these chats? Do they know? I mean, mean. So I'm assuming you're just like some. Some player in there.

Robin Drake (52:11)

Yep. They have no clue. And they listen to my voice and they have no idea I'm 57 years old.

Tony Bruski (52:18)

I don't want to. I was going to say we should do a game, let's guess Robin's username now, come up with some very, very creative ideas onto what that could be.

Robin Drake (52:29)

I've given hints a few times, but no one's ever guessed what I do.

Tony Bruski (52:32)

Let's give us some insight, though, into that world, into that community, because we've obviously seen, you know, he's very much into this world that David is. We've, of course, the Charlie Kirk shooter we've seen. There's another case I'm beginning to follow here of the teenager that ran over the two girls over the last week that he was stalking online and he didn't like him because they were saying negative things about Charlie Kirk. So he thought, well, let's go run them over. Which he did, but again, then bragged about it on an online forum of some sort for a video game he's playing. Give us some insight for those of us who are not in that world as to what that world is like. Are these extreme outliers when you have people like that that are doing things like that, or is there just questionable shit everywhere and you just don't know who's being serious or not?

Robin Drake (53:33)

I can only give my optic.

Tony Bruski (53:34)

Yeah, give me your. Yeah, yeah.

Robin Drake (53:35)

And I. And my son's on them all the time, too. I have two adult kids in that age group. You know, they're in their late 20s. I don't see anything toxic in the stuff I do. I mean, you hear toxic kids saying toxic things from Science Time, but never violent things. They'll just say inappropriate things is a better way to put it. And then.

Tony Bruski (53:53)

Sure.

Robin Drake (53:53)

And to the credit towards the companies that the games that I play, they get voiced by band. I logged on last night and there's this guy I play this one game with. He's actually. He's in his 30s, he's a roofer in Kentucky. I have no idea who he is. I know that much about him because that's much he shared. He came on last night and he's already voice banned because he. He says this one thing online. It's not even a bad word or anything, but the. The algorithm thinks he's saying something else, and they voice ban him for like 30 minutes. And it's hilarious. He's doing these hand signals in the game, trying to articulate. But no, I. So there's. And my son was telling me this because we talked about this a lot after the Charlie Kirk shooting. And, you know, this online culture that they have, you can find toxicity anywhere you look for it. But by and large, you know, a lot of these companies are. I'll give the glass half full. A lot of these companies and gaming companies are doing a very good job of creating these filters and algorithms to keep that toxicity out, because they don't want to have their company go out of business. You know, they make money by selling things that are positive, that parents will allow kids to buy, that. That the government's not going to shut down or pan. And so, by and large, I do do a good job. But what happens is you have the gaming world, and then you have the communication world that goes around the gaming world. And so I, I play both my computer game, my, My, My. My Xbox Downstairs S. And I also play on my VR headset. You know, I got an Oculus.

Tony Bruski (55:20)

Yeah.

Robin Drake (55:21)

You know, and then with all those games, you have a Discord channel that will go along with that game. And so, so it's. It's not the gaming systems themselves that are necessary, the ones that are bad. It's. It's the. It's the chat world that'll go around that'll start surrounding. So your, Your little. You'll have a group of people that can be completely anonymous that decide in the game, hey, here's an invite to my Discord channel. And so they give an invite to the person online, and then they go to that little. That's little. That little cult of people. And I'll set a cult just as a collective, not as a bad thing, just a cult of people, people completely anonymous that starts out talking about this game. Now, if you have one individual or a couple individuals in there that starts spreading some toxicity about other things going on, society or anything else, well, then that can start festering. And that's where that starts. So it can start here, can start there. And that's why it's so hard to track it. All of it completely anonymous, unless you decide to disclose who you are.

Tony Bruski (56:18)

Is this stuff like kind of coming off of the dark web now and getting into more mainstream platforms like Discord, like Reddits and things of that nature where it used to be? You had to dig a little bit deeper to find a community where it gets pretty dark, you'd have other, you know, is it being harbored out in shallower waters than it used to be? And people are getting access to it in ways that. And falling into these especially young men, being able to find and fall into these things in much easier ways than they would have in the past. Where in the past you would have had to been kind of like in a hackerish community or really know what the hell you were doing to go that deep on the web. Now, you know, you're on a discord from a game you were playing and things can get pretty dark. Is it getting the shallow, getting too close to home? And do these companies like Discord and such that provide the platforms, do they need to be more responsible with what they're allowing to have conversation of on their platforms?

Robin Drake (57:22)

But language you use there is really good and accurate. Shallower waters I think is a very accurate way to put I haven't heard anyone or. Because I used to work, I used to be a board member on a group called Innocent Lives foundation, which we tracked and identified online predators and handed it over to law enforcement for investigation. And that. That took a lot of dark, wet work work. And if you're going to traffic in horrendous things that are already, you know, like Stephen Stearns and the Maddie Soto case, that is dark web kind of stuff when you're dealing with. But when you're talking about just ideology.

Tony Bruski (57:55)

Doesn'T have to be.

Robin Drake (57:56)

No, it gets very shallow. And the challenge with it, it's not even just a challenge of the companies and tracking it because you, the three of us and four, you know, with Todd, the way we communicate as a generation is very. It's much more transparent. But what happens is, is that these people start talking in code. Code becomes jargon and lingo that an algorithm is not going to pick up on until it picks up on. Then they already moved on from it. And so, boy, it's a challenge. And so you're not. So my. This kind of goes back to some of the things we're talking about because of the Charlie Kirk assassination was I don't think you're going to be able to keep chasing people around social networking sites and find the bad actors. I'm not saying you're not going to. You'll be able to identify some that way, but you're in chasing mode. You'll never catch up to sprinters if you're in chasing mode. The way to do it is really Start looking earlier than that at the behaviors outside this world. Because if they're doing it inside the virtual world, there's tons of leakage on the outside. It's a self isolation. It's the dark thoughts, it's the vernacular they start using. So I constantly encourage parents to do this all the time. Keep a journal, keep a log and date it. So when you make observations, you know, just journaling about what you, your family and your kids are doing on a daily basis, or even just make a weekly basis, just make notes on what you know, it's got a couple more fun names. But what your kids, you know, Jane and Bob are doing on a weekly basis. And when you start tracking that over time, then you'll start seeing a pattern. Is the pattern staying healthy and normal or we start going down into self isolation because if we start seeing a fall off, he's like, here's an easy thing to do. Name your kids friends. And if you don't have the ability to name who your kids friends are, these are conversations to have. But then as you just do a weekly check in with your kids, like my kids and I, we, our family does is we do a weekly FaceTime call, all four of us. My kids are grown week and we're just checking in. Here's what's going on, here's what's going on in each other's lives. We talk about people in people's lives. Now we have a baseline. And so if we baseline what our kids and our interactions are going and the socializing they're doing, if we start seeing deviations because we're taking note of it, that's the change. And you don't have to start chasing it down online because you're never going to catch them.

Stacy Cole (60:22)

Well, and think about how isolated we are now. A lot of, I mean, I'll hold up my phone here. There are people in my phone that other people don't know about about because they don't see them in real life. This is how we communicate. They're in other states. So the people who are in my actual real world don't know that these other people exist. My phone is locked. People don't have access to it. So there is this entire web that if those people are toxic, the people in my real life have no idea that they exist.

Robin Drake (60:53)

But we're going to know from your behavior, Correct? You know, and so when I start seeing a change in Stacy, I'm going to say, Stacy, I mean this is, I say to myself, you know, I think said what's going on. What great challenge are you facing this week? Just what's going on and if we.

Stacy Cole (61:09)

Don'T have that check in with people like what you do with your family, we are absolutely lost in this world. So we've really stopped that communication with people around us. We don't do those check ins. And what you just shared is so valuable.

Robin Drake (61:25)

I know everyone's probably laughing that Robin does these gaming things. You know why I do gaming well, you know why my kids do and in order for me to want and, and we talk about on anything that I face as a behavior guy in the real world when we, when we do these shows I dive in, you know, just so I can understand that world a bit better. So I have that con, you know, like we're talking about Brian Enten. He goes on scene. Well if we're going to talk about the virtual world and gaming and discord and everything, I, I have an account. I do these things.

Tony Bruski (61:54)

Yeah.

Robin Drake (61:55)

I could get at least a bit of a taste, taste in the flavor favor. I asked my kids about it because they're the source material for me about hey, you know you're doing this every day. What are you seeing? What are you hearing? What's, what's the reality from what we're seeing being propagated on the news cycles that are selling ad space compared to reality of just, you know, what is really going on?

Stacy Cole (62:14)

Well, it's curiosity.

Robin Drake (62:15)

It is just deep, deep active curiosity. And then you know, I've enjoyed, I've actually enjoyed these games. It gets really annoying though. These kids get really good at these games. So my favorite line ever that I use when I get angry and I don't get angry because I say let them is would you go out and smell some grass?

Stacy Cole (62:39)

Wait, what kind of grass are we talking about here?

Tony Bruski (62:41)

Dad just installed Astroturf in the front yard.

Robin Drake (62:44)

Yeah, green grass, man. And the other thing I'll do with some kids is take a breath because some of these kids just will not shut up.

Tony Bruski (62:52)

Sure, sure. Yeah, I mean it's good.

Robin Drake (62:55)

I'm sorry, I'm digressing.

Tony Bruski (62:56)

No, no, no.

Stacy Cole (62:57)

Our, our chat section here on YouTube. They freaking love you, Robin. So stop apologizing for going off because everybody here just loves your commentary. So please don't ever apologize doing real things. Exactly. And they love you.

Tony Bruski (63:14)

And you can get his book right now, Unbreakable Alliances. It's his latest wherever books are sold. So there you go. And audiobook wherever. So yeah. So if you want to go get more Robin after the show there's other books, too. I do highly recommend all of them.

Stacy Cole (63:28)

Yeah, me too.

Tony Bruski (63:29)

Robin Drake, retired FBI, Special Agency for the Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. As always, thank you for coming on and giving us your insight into. Into the. The lovely world that we're currently.

Robin Drake (63:41)

You'll never know where it goes.

Stacy Cole (63:42)

Thanks, we love that.

Tony Bruski (63:44)

And let us know your thoughts in the comments section as well. Well, let's move on. Going over to Sean Diddy Combs now. He walked into that Manhattan courtroom wrapped in everything he's ever used to define himself. Power, fame, family, philanthropy, trauma. And by the time he walked out, that armor had cracked. Because for the first time, a federal judge didn't just listen to Diddy's narrative. He listened to the women he handed down. Four years and two months in federal prison. Not a slap on the wrist, not time served in a tour of middle schools. Not a redemption arc wrapped in designer fabric. Just a sentence for violence, for coercion, for decades of unchecked entitlement disguised as influence. We're gonna walk through what actually happened in the courtroom on Friday because if you only heard the sound bites, you missed the truth. And we got a lot to go through. We're gonna go through Cassie's letter that was submitted to the judge. We're also gonna take a look at the very overly produced Sean Combs video. That's right. He came with a pre produced Sean Combs promo.

Stacy Cole (65:00)

Of course he did. Yes, of course he did. My God, I would have been so let down if he hadn't.

Tony Bruski (65:07)

Why wouldn't you? When you're trying to sell that you're just a regular man of the people? Why would you not come in with an 11 minute promo video for your greatness after you've been accused of doing some of the most horrific things imaginable, including on camera. Yeah.

Stacy Cole (65:24)

It was so Diddy of him, wasn't it?

Tony Bruski (65:27)

So Diddy.

Stacy Cole (65:28)

That's what I said over the weekend. Like everything that we saw was just so diddy. And I'm using that in my real life. If somebody does something absurd. That is so ditty of you.

Tony Bruski (65:39)

Are you. Are you retiring? That's so Raven.

Stacy Cole (65:42)

Yes, absolutely.

Tony Bruski (65:47)

Yeah. Diddy. Diddy did not have a great day in court on Friday. The first thing out of Judge Aaron Semiranian's mouth wasn't about Diddy's success. It was about the survivors. He called their stories horrific, but stories of courage. He looked directly at the record, the women who testified, the trauma they endured, and said, we heard you. I'm Proud of you for coming to the court to tell the world what really happened. That moment cut through everything. No branding, no bodyguards, no billion dollar portfolio could shift the focus quite back onto Diddy. But for the first time in that room that matters, someone chose to believe the women before the myth. And one of those things that was believed was the words of Cassie, Cassie Ventura. And I got her letter right here and I'm going to read it. I didn't do an AI version of this. I'm just going to read it aloud. So this is Cassie's letter to the judge in its entirety. Dear Judge Submaranean, I have been in a cycle of thought, thought and then overthought writing this letter to you. If there is one thing I've learned from this experience is that the victims and survivors will never be safe. Although I can hope for justice and accountability, I have come to not trust anything. I hope that your decision considers the truths at hand that the jury failed to see. For four days in May, while nine months pregnant with my son, I testified in front of a packed courtroom about the most traumatic and horrifying chapter in my life. I testified that from age 19, Sean Combs used violence, threats, substances and control over my career to trap me in over a decade of abuse. He groomed me into performing repeated S acts and hired male S workers during multi day freak offs which occurred nearly weekly. I was forced into lingerie and heels, told exactly how to look and piled with drugs and alcohol so he could control me like a puppy. It these events were degrading and disgusting leaving me with infections, illnesses and days of physical and emotional exhaustion before he demanded it all again. Essex became my full time job, used as the only way to stay in his good graces. I testified that I learned to read Sean Combs signals knowing that when he spoke of freak offs he was demanding them and that refusing meant punishment. Punishment. Losing my car, my phone or worse. He controlled every part of my livelihood and threatened to destroy my reputation by leaking the tapes. A threat he repeated often. His power over me eroded my independence and sense of self until I felt I had no choice but to submit. When he believed I had wronged him or was not sufficiently responsive. He also threatened people around me and those close to me, including my family. I regularly worried that displeasing him meant putting my family and friend safety at risk. I testified how beyond these threats, Sean Combs frequently used violence to get his way. Over the nearly 11 years we were together, Sean Combs would hit me, punch me, stomp on my face, pull my hair and throw my body to the ground and against the wall. The jury saw pictures of bruises on my back from Combs kicking me and saw the deep gash over my eye he called me caused when he slammed me into the bed frame. The entire courtroom watched actual footage of Combs kicking me and beating me as I tried to run away from a freak off in 2016. People watched this footage dozens of times, seeing my body thrown to the ground, my hands over my face curled into a fetal position to shield me from the worst blows. This physical violence caused bruises that makeup artist paid for by Sean Combs would cover up, as well as permanent scars all over my body. During my time with Combs, I was in a constant state of hypervigilance as I was always anticipating demands for S X or otherwise, fearing retribution for any perceived slight. My descent into substance abuse was directly correlated with his increased control over my body, my money, my freedom and my freedom. Will I use those drugs to push through the horrifying S acts he demanded and to numb myself to the physical pain and emotional turmoil I was constantly in. While the defense attorneys at trial suggested that my time with Combs was akin to a great modern love story, nothing could be further from the truth. Nothing about this story is great, modern or loving. This was a horrific decade of my life stained by abuse, violence, forced, ass and dedicated. I spent the last seven years of my life slowly rebuilding myself physically getting clean from the drug abuse. Sean Combs forced and encouraged and mentally understanding how to live with a seemingly insurmountable level of trauma. The horrors I endured drove me to have thoughts of suicide, ones I almost followed through on if not for my family's intervention and urging that I seek professional care. I've been to rehab and have taken part in dozens of types of therapy modalities to comfort, compartmentalize and cope with the horrific memories of the abuse I endured nearly 10 years of while what he did to me is always present, I am slowly learning how to live my life free of fear and horrors I endured and in doing so I'm fully devoted to my husband and my children. I still have nightmares and flashbacks on a regular, everyday basis and continue to require psychological care to cope with my past. My worries that Sean Combs or his associates will come after me and my family is my reality. I have in fact moved my family out of the New York area and am keeping as private and quiet as I possibly can because I am so scared that if he walks free, his first actions will be swift retribution towards Me and others who spoke up about his abuse at trial. As much progress as I have made in recovering from his abuse, I remain very much afraid of what he's capable of of and the malice he undoubtedly harbors towards me for having the bravery to tell the truth. His defense attorneys claim he is a changed man and he wants to mentor abusers. I know firsthand what real mentorship means, and this disgusts me. He's not being truthful. I know that who he was to me, the manipulator, the aggressor, the abuser, the trafficker, is who he is as a human. He has no interest in changing or becoming better. He'll always be the same cruel, power hungry, manipulative man that he is. When I came out with my allegations in my civil case, he flatly denied them against again and again. It was only after actual footage corroborated the exact words in my civil complaint that he issued an insincere apology on the Internet. Thanks to the footage and my testimony, this is also something he will forever be associated with. For over a decade, Sean Combs made me feel powerless and unimportant. But my experience was real horrific and deserves to be considered. While the jury did not seem to understand or believe that I engaged in freak offs because of the force and coercion the defendant used against me, I know that is the truth. Truth. And his sentence should reflect the reality of the evidence and my lived experience as a victim. Reliving in detail the events and truths described through the trial. And this letter causes me tremendous emotional pain. I am trying with all that I am to move on. I hope that your sentencing decision reflects the strength it took for victims of Sean Combs to come forward. I hope that your decision considers in many lives that Sean Combs has upended with his abuse and control. I thank you for your time and attention. Cassandra Ventura, fine. So she laid it out pretty good, I think. Anybody. I want to say this because I was thinking this as I was reading it. If, when he does get out, if he gets out, I know it's only. It's going to be like three years, but I think there's an if. And we'll talk about that in a minute. If he does any events, if he goes back and has another tour, if he goes, that should be required reading as you buy the ticket. You know, it's like, okay, here's the, you know, the agreement. And this is who you're buying the ticket for, by the way, just so you're all aware. Anybody who wants to Go see this guy or be inspired by this guy. Come on. He's a monster. And I hope a broomstick finds him in prison and ends it. But, you know, that's wishful thinking. What are your thoughts?

Todd Michaels (74:50)

Well, I noticed Stacey was very touched by that letter, so I'm going to let her go first.

Tony Bruski (74:55)

Okay.

Stacy Cole (74:56)

Maybe you should go. I don't think I can right now.

Todd Michaels (74:59)

Well, I will just say that I agree with you, Tony. If this guy gets out in two, three years, whatever it is, four years, and thinks that he's going to have a career after this, shame on anybody who supports it.

Tony Bruski (75:14)

He had bookings. That's the other. He was booked for this week because he thought he was going to get out.

Todd Michaels (75:20)

Exactly. This guy really felt like, hey, I. Yeah, I did this stuff. It was horrible. But look at me now, I'm all better. And it's like, nah, you're not. It doesn't change like that. I'm not saying that you can't make your life better. You can't become a better person. But in this case, what you've done is so horrific that. Be a good person if you want. It just doesn't change what you did. And I'm sorry. Nobody should ever trust you again, ever, ever. And after Alligator, after he said, hey, these are things I didn't do. And then the video comes out.

Stacy Cole (75:55)

Yeah.

Todd Michaels (75:56)

Can you imagine?

Tony Bruski (75:56)

I mean, right.

Todd Michaels (75:57)

Come on.

Tony Bruski (75:58)

I. I feel, and I know this would be extreme and we can't do this in this country, but you know, just like how, like predator predators, child predators and such, if they, they committed their crimes on the Internet, they're not allowed then to like, use the Internet or have access to it anymore. Right. I feel like somebody like him, like, shouldn't have access to cameras like, like after you've had. And that means you can't be on camera, you can't own cameras. You can't make appearances on cameras.

Todd Michaels (76:25)

Unless it's a 24 hour day body cam that records everything you freaking do.

Stacy Cole (76:30)

Yeah.

Tony Bruski (76:31)

Then, yeah, they'd find a loop. But something like that where it's like. So he can't go get in the spot and bamboozle more people into his bullshit. Because that's what's gonna happen. There's gonna be people if he gets out. Oh, look, he's a changed man. It's Diddy. It's. Oh. Because people want to remember the diddy of the 90s where it's Mo money, mo problems, and it's a big shiny music video with lights sparkling everywhere and It's a big old fun time because we don't want to look at things of our past and go, oh, that really wasn't as, I guess, you know, know, poppy and fun as it was made out to be. Hell, look at the Cosby Show. Not exactly the family atmosphere we all thought it was now was it? But the same sort of thing is here. But there's. You still have people that will still, still buy the bullshit. Cosby still, if he goes out, he still can sell out places. It's insane.

Todd Michaels (77:23)

Do you believe either one of you that his kids who spoke at his sentencing actually believe that he's a changed man?

Tony Bruski (77:31)

Yes, I think they all do. Really? Yeah.

Stacy Cole (77:34)

I think they are so steeped in all that is Diddy.

Tony Bruski (77:38)

Yeah.

Stacy Cole (77:38)

That they don't understand what, what reality should be.

Tony Bruski (77:42)

Yes. And that's why.

Stacy Cole (77:44)

Exactly. If they were to step out of this bubble and really take a good look at it, they would see something that does not agree with them, that would not allow them to sleep at night. But they are so into this lifestyle and, and I think that's why this letter hit me personally so hard. I'm going to open up a little bit here. I, Financial manipulation is something that I'm starting to question about my own life. Not going to go into great detail, but nothing like this has happened to me. But as I'm hearing this letter, I kind of sat back and went how many women have dealt with something with just even a shade, a sliver of this in their lives? They've been with an abusive boyfriend or husband. They've been with somebody who is controlling them. They don't know how to get out. They're afraid of what they're going to lose if they do get out. There's just this overwhelming fear. And how many women are living in this fear? Not to this extreme, but to hear a letter like this and see some of yourself checking boxes a little bit absolutely triggered me. And, and if, if you want to rewind and go back to a few minutes ago, I lost my and had to go off camera for a second.

Tony Bruski (78:59)

Yeah. I mean it's, it, it is, it's so raw. I, I, this is the first time I actually read the letter all the way through was right there. And I mean it very much spells out what a monster he is. And it further exemplifies just how crazy. What we're gonna show you in just a moment is cuz what he brought to court after victim impact statements and then tried to sell to the judge. Cause the jury's no longer part of this anymore. The jury does nothing to do with sentencing. It's up to the judge. Sean Combs thought that, okay, even though all of these pieces are here, these statements, these letters, it doesn't even register in his mind that maybe it's not time for a promo video about my greatness. In his mind, this is the way apparently, in his attorneys as well. Unless Sean's just calling all the shots and the attorneys are like, well, whatever.

Stacy Cole (80:03)

He'S paying me, he's paying me by the hour. I'm getting $800 an hour power to represent this guy. So, you know, I need a new.

Tony Bruski (80:10)

Ferrari, which could very well be the case. But the. The damage that he did is. It's insane. And it's insane he didn't get more. What I was saying earlier, I said, you know, three years because he's got time served for one year, basically. And then you look at the math of how it will play out. If it's good behavior and all that, you're probably looking at about 2ish years that he'll realistically serve, and then he's out. But that's two years. It took less than a year to bring the charges on him and then actually end up at trial. Remember, this trial happened far sooner than anybody thought it would. Yeah, we all thought this thing was gonna be, like, playing out years down the road, but it came. I don't know that there's more. I would suspect the fact that you have hundreds of other people making allegations, you might have enough material for another federal case. Just saying maybe. Maybe you do or some other case. It doesn't have to be federal, just some other criminal case. I would think there might be enough data out there there for that. Maybe I'm wrong. I mean, they have all of the freak off videos the government does, and apparently that wasn't enough. That wasn't enough to get this further down the road. And you can't go reuse all that again. I do have some suspicions as to maybe why they didn't have enough, because I'm gonna guess there might have been more than enough other folks in some of those videos that names didn't want to get out. And maybe there was a reason that the charges didn't go further on. Did he? That's my own personal opinion. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But we know how Jeffrey Epstein worked. I don't think this is a far cry in a lot of ways, of people that may have been involved in his circle that had a vested interest and have the power to make sure that, well, that doesn't get out. So would not be shocked there. But it's beyond smoke. I mean this is a fireworks stand ablaze right now and shit's flying everywhere. And it's gonna continue to every single week. There are still new civil cases coming in. And again, he is on any of those charges. He deserves his day in court. He deserves to be able to argue them and fight them. But just as those people do deserve the right to tell their story and will you have some BS in there? Sure, sure. But to this level, this many people accusing you of stuff, I mean, come on, there's. I would not be surprised if there is another criminal trial within the course of the next two to three years that keeps him in longer. That's my, it's my hoping, knock on wood or fake wood or whatever prediction.

Stacy Cole (83:09)

Interesting.

Todd Michaels (83:11)

If he's in prison, can they actually pull more charges against him or do you have to wait? Okay.

Tony Bruski (83:16)

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. If they. Statue of limitations is your biggest thing with a lot of his stuff. But Yep. I don't know. Stuff keeps coming up. I would not imagine the amount of shit. I don't know how, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how he got away with it to this level to only get two years for all of the crap that he has been accused of doing or has, has been proven to have done.

Todd Michaels (83:49)

I, I'm hoping that Cassie's letter gives some strength to anybody else who has a story that isn't told yet that needs to be told. It was very well written. Unlike I, I, I didn't think his letter was well written to the judge. I thought that was, and I know we made repetitive too. It was, it was the same thing over and over and over about how he changed. But I, I really, I hope that that letter gives some strength and solace to those who have gone through some stuff with Diddy the themselves.

Tony Bruski (84:16)

Yeah, I completely agree in our chat.

Stacy Cole (84:20)

By the way. I'm sorry to interrupt. Is it Genie or Jean says, well, maybe he'll have the same thing happen to him in prison. Funny. He's so afraid of Sa in prison. What does he think he was doing all those years?

Todd Michaels (84:32)

Well, exactly.

Stacy Cole (84:33)

You nailed it. Yeah. Poetic justice maybe.

Tony Bruski (84:39)

Or is he going to arrange this into something where it's like, I don't know, where he's careful, where it's, where it's not. I don't know. He's such a manipulator. I wouldn't put anything past anything of the way he's going to frame it or how he could frame something just as about what we're going to take a look at here in this next segment. Sean Diddy Combs, of course, found guilty of two of those charges and he is now going to be suspended, spending. Well, the sentence is four years, but likely he'll be spending about two more years in prison with time served. The spin machine certainly came to court on Friday. And make no mistake, this wasn't a legal strategy. It was a stage production where despite the shocking nature of his crimes, the letter that Cassie wrote in great detail saying exactly what happened and the hell and the torture that she went through through being with Diddy, Diddy's team. Diddy himself had the nerve, the gall, the I don't know what word I'm even looking for on this one to show an 11 minute video. And let's call it what it was, a campaign ad footage of him with kids, him running a race, him handing out opportunities. At one point he wears a shirt that says I am the American dream with clips of him mentoring inmates in prison. This is what they played in court. Take a moment to digest it and we'll talk about it on the other side.

Sean Combs (86:27)

What you've given to the world, I don't think you know, man.

Tony Bruski (86:29)

Dad, dad.

Robin Drake (86:32)

When my baby cries, we gotta give her a bottle.

Sean Combs (86:37)

Know that you mean something to people. Know that you mean something to people. That you live somewhere in people's heart.

Tony Bruski (86:44)

My nose fell off. No, no, no, my lip fell off.

Robin Drake (86:50)

Thank you.

Tony Bruski (86:54)

You wear it, you inspire, you energize.

Sean Combs (86:58)

And you've left that for the rest of the existence of this plant it.

Robin Drake (87:12)

One thing about great producers is they, they, they make you want to do.

Sean Combs (87:16)

Better and be better about what you do. And he made me feel like I.

Robin Drake (87:21)

Could do anything and go anywhere.

Sean Combs (87:26)

From New York. I love New York. I love the city of New York. I love the children of New York. I wanted to do something good. I wanted to get my generation and the hip hop community behind us. They come through in a big way. And we wanted to raise some money for the children of New York City for health and education. We have a huge education crisis and, you know, we just, this is just a start. It's something we're going to be committed to, I'm going to be committed to for a lifetime. And it's no better way than taking it to the streets. It's a beautiful city running all around. The city's gonna be painful. It's gonna be rough, but, you know, if we get through it, then it'll show kids and everybody else that, you know, finish what you start, and you can do anything you put your mind to. Any of y' all go to public school?

Tony Bruski (88:04)

Yes. Okay.

Sean Combs (88:05)

Y' all running to raise money for your schools so y' all get more books and computers and stuff like that. I just feel like it's important that us, you know, young adults of power, that we look out for y', all, we utilize our power to make sure. So y' all all right. In the future, put everything you can into your work. You know, don't think the cool thing is not to do your work. Don't think the cool thing is to hang on the corner with your friends and to talk about stuff that ain't gonna protect your future.

Tony Bruski (88:34)

What did you learn about him as.

Robin Drake (88:35)

A man who was taking up a new sport?

Tony Bruski (88:37)

Well, you know, I was actually very, very impressed. You know, a lot of people think it's just a celebrity stunt, that he isn't serious about his running. He is as serious about his running has been the last nine weeks as a lot of these guys in the league pack. I mean, he's really devoted and dedicated himself to running. You know, he's had some knee problems, and a lot of people don't think he's going to finish. He is going to finish, even if he has to do it on one leg, because he's raised a lot of money for kids charities, and he's not going to let all those people down.

Sean Combs (89:10)

Let's go. Where we going? We going straight to the top, baby. Let's go. As a constant reminder. Let's go. Boom. Live in the present. Sometimes, you know, you daydreaming. Sometimes, you know, Uncle Diddy gotta hit you with. Let's go.

Tony Bruski (89:21)

Clap it up on the sideline.

Sean Combs (89:22)

Let's get our energy right. Come on. To make sure that you're pursuing your dream, that you stay in focus. Let's go. Let's keep going forward. Let's go means let's be positive. Let's take it up another notch. Let's go spend time with our kids. Let's go. Let's give thanks to God. Let's, you know, let's turn it up. Let's get in the vocal booth. Let's stop procrastinating. Let's go. You know, let's understand what it's going to take to achieve that dream. So instead of talking about the guns and the violence, I was always talking about a better life. Places we didn't go before things we never wore, cars we never drove, houses we never lived in. I think I brought up aspirations, tried to take it out of just being street. Our whole stuff was a fantasy and a dream. A dream that I always felt would come true. I started out just like you guys. I come from New York. I grew up in Harlem. I used to have to wear a uniform every day. Had to get up early in the morning, had to to travel, to go to school. I worked hard, just like you guys are working. This country and this world we live in may have planned for y'. All. I didn't listen to that and I don't want y' all to listen to it either. Y' all are great. Y' all are kings, Y' all are queens, Y' all are leaders. I just got so excited because this is truly a dream come true for me. And I'm happy to say this is our third school. We have opened this official. When we come together as a people, nothing can stop us. What I want to do with my freedom, you know, make sure that I can make change. And I found out that Mr. Sean Diddy combs posted me on Instagram.

Narrator (91:28)

We met Sean Diddy Combs for the first time.

Tony Bruski (91:30)

And Sean gave Trey a $25,000 grant.

Narrator (91:34)

Which allowed us to open a physical store.

Sean Combs (91:36)

Revolt. As one of the only black owned networks, we have to own something. We have to have something that's ours. We have to have something that we can control our network. And we could speak about things that are important to us. And we could have a platform and a foundation to be free. But I want to get advice from y'. All. I want to not just have a one way conversation. We need a platform where they can put artists that are different, really different, that wouldn't get a shot on other stations.

Narrator (92:07)

Working for Revolt TV and working for Diddy was absolutely life changing. It was the best job I've ever had. I learned excellence through him.

Sean Combs (92:17)

I don't see enough things truly changing and I don't understand how. We are the richest, most powerful country in the world and it seems like we can't solve the problems within our own community. African American communities are last and the only people that are going to change that is us. We have to stand strong together and we have to get to that change. You will change the world.

Robin Drake (92:46)

I've been through hell. Yeah.

Sean Combs (92:50)

But I won't make it. You won't make it. That's right. Now I got something for you. Remember I told you I had a present for you Yeah.

Tony Bruski (92:58)

I ain't that pretty. Aw.

Sean Combs (93:01)

This is a heart. Cause you my heart.

Tony Bruski (93:03)

All right.

Robin Drake (93:04)

Okay.

Sean Combs (93:04)

You my heart.

Tony Bruski (93:05)

Heart. Okay.

Sean Combs (93:07)

May God bless you and keep you happy and keep you thinking positive. Everything's not going to be perfect at this time in life. And you. You good. You a good person that understands reality. So we're going to. We're going to accentuate the positives in life because you doing great, girl. You know what I'm saying? You doing great. Great. I want you to be happy about your life, you know? Great. We got a lot of living to do now. We got a lot of living to do. Don't have me come behind me. I'll be taking you everywhere you be going, everywhere you hang out together.

Tony Bruski (93:42)

Okay. When you were a little boy.

Robin Drake (93:44)

Jeannie.

Tony Bruski (93:45)

Jeannie.

Robin Drake (93:45)

Ned.

Sean Combs (93:46)

Okay.

Tony Bruski (93:46)

Yeah. You just keep hanging in me.

Sean Combs (93:48)

Thank you very much. I'm telling you right now, you did a great job.

Tony Bruski (93:51)

I'm wrapping my head around and meeting.

Sean Combs (93:52)

You and also telling you you did a great job. At the same time, I mean, pleasure to meet you. I'd rather at the end of the day be the one standing there with you. Was the best person. You made us feel the best as a person. How old are you?

Robin Drake (94:13)

Two.

Sean Combs (94:13)

How old are you?

Tony Bruski (94:14)

Two.

Sean Combs (94:15)

Two.

Robin Drake (94:15)

You got a two?

Sean Combs (94:16)

That's two.

Tony Bruski (94:17)

My name is Pookie the bird.

Sean Combs (94:24)

Happy birthday. Wash your hands because we're gonna be shuffing it up.

Tony Bruski (94:39)

Hallelujah.

Sean Combs (94:39)

Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Thank you, God. Today. God is the greatest. He blessed me and my girlfriend Kim in the world with two beautiful baby girls.

Robin Drake (95:14)

We have breaking news to tell you about now.

Stacy Cole (95:16)

Model and actress Kim Porter, who shares.

Robin Drake (95:19)

Three children with Sean Diddy Combs, has been found dead.

Sean Combs (95:26)

She just loved me unconditionally, you know? She just loved me.

Tony Bruski (95:30)

She only knew all your secrets. And if she exposed that shit might not have worked out well.

Stacy Cole (95:36)

Yep.

Sean Combs (95:38)

You could be like with a person.

Stacy Cole (95:42)

Those tears.

Robin Drake (95:45)

I get to thinking about her and.

Sean Combs (95:48)

I go to crying about it today. Now I'm a full time dad. And I'm gonna be there for you through everything, all of y'.

Tony Bruski (95:58)

All.

Sean Combs (95:59)

Every Sunday. I gotta slow everything down and do the family ritual. Get the family together. Make sure the girls watch.

Robin Drake (96:05)

There is a definition of grace.

Stacy Cole (96:07)

That is more.

Tony Bruski (96:08)

Pops.

Sean Combs (96:09)

I love you. Thank you for loving us. Thank you for loving me. Thank you for inspiring.

Tony Bruski (96:15)

I've looked up to you and admired you.

Sean Combs (96:18)

Outside of you just being my father, just you being just a great human being.

Tony Bruski (96:22)

A. Let's talk about those charges against you guys.

Sean Combs (96:25)

I Love how you inspire me to keep going, to never stop following my dreams.

Robin Drake (96:29)

Start leaving my.

Sean Combs (96:30)

So see a foot put in that middle part.

Tony Bruski (96:33)

Yeah, I did. I wanted to tell you how much.

Robin Drake (96:35)

I love you, how much I care for you.

Stacy Cole (96:38)

Thank you for being so supportive of.

Tony Bruski (96:40)

Me and my siblings dreams for always.

Stacy Cole (96:42)

Encouraging us to go for whatever you want.

Tony Bruski (96:45)

We love you.

Robin Drake (96:46)

We take more memories with you. Just want to thank you for everything you do for us and let you know that you're loved more than your faith.

Tony Bruski (96:56)

Sam.

Sean Combs (97:26)

I had to pick this trophy. I want the best person trophy. I know in order for me to get into heaven. I'm not gonna get in there. Well, come on in heaven. You had 20 hit records that don't mean nothing. And that's what this world is for. They're gonna say, oh, come on in heaven. You was a nice person. I love you.

Tony Bruski (97:46)

I love you so much.

Sean Combs (97:47)

I love you so much. Love you so much.

Robin Drake (97:51)

Hi, daddy.

Stacy Cole (97:55)

I feel gaslit.

Tony Bruski (97:57)

There's nobody in that video saying he loves him other than the people he brainwashed directly as his next of kin. Nobody else in that video in any sort of timeline is praising him. You saw a lot of clips in there of other people praising him at various points from the 90s to today. There was at the very beginning, I felt bad for baby folks face because he was on there at some award show saying something. But I'm gonna take a wild guess and go, that wasn't sanctioned move by Babyface saying, yeah, go ahead, put me in that video. I think we have to remember the quote. Over the nearly 11 years we were together, Sean Combs would hit me, punch me, stomp on my face, pull my hair, throw my body to the ground and against the wall. Anybody who's doing that shit. That is all for sure show that is 1000% being gaslit.

Stacy Cole (98:50)

100%. This is the. I don't even know what to say it. This is so appropriate for an abuser.

Tony Bruski (99:01)

Oh, yeah.

Stacy Cole (99:02)

Exactly what an abuser does. No, no. This is the life we've been living. Not what you experienced. What I'm telling you, you experienced. And this was to the public. Public, you know, so. Good Lord, what was he doing behind the scenes? And we saw a glimpse of it, but just a glimpse. He did not acknowledge his victims in any way, shape or form he can get.

Todd Michaels (99:26)

Yeah, I wrote something down only because I'm not good with. With words. And. And it's something we've always, always heard about people. But if you really want to know the inner realness of Someone see them in situations when no one is looking, or in this case, when cameras aren't there. There was nothing here from the heart. This was all stuff that was put together for promotional material over the years, right? I mean, okay, so he ran great. I'm proud of you.

Tony Bruski (99:53)

You know, so did all those other people, Right.

Todd Michaels (99:56)

I have a busted knee. I walked for the Humane Society this year. Nobody was following me around for a promotional video. It's really. It's frustrating to see that and even more frustrating to think or his family or his lawyers thought somehow that was going to sway this decision from the judge or the. The public's thought process on who this guy is. It did nothing. Except as. As we always say on the show, just show what a narcissist this guy is.

Tony Bruski (100:29)

Oh, my God. All roads lead there. What I found interesting about the. Some of the. The notes I took, being a parent and having a kid. I'll tell you what, when I have, like, videos of my kid and stuff, it's of my kid, right? It's not of me. It's not of me necessarily with my kid. I mean, I also don't have photographers following me around either. But at the same point, I wouldn't want to share that with a photographer. Those are moments. And it's of them doing. It's about their accomplishments. It's about their stuff. It's not about me. Me. Look at me playing with my child. Look at me doing this. I mean, do a drinking game on that of how many times he said, I me and how powerful he is. You'd be fucking dead of alcohol poisoning.

Stacy Cole (101:20)

Yeah, our livers can't handle that.

Tony Bruski (101:22)

The whole thing, I mean, and being philanthropic as well. Let's talk about that for a little bit. Because most people, when they give and they're philanthropic. Again, it's not about you. When you're being philanthropic, you're helping others. A lot of people don't want their names attached to it.

Stacy Cole (101:39)

Correct. A lot of people just do it.

Tony Bruski (101:41)

It's like, here, I don't want a public. I don't want anything on this. It's. Let me help you. Let me do this. It's not, let me present you with a giant check with my name on it. Or if you're gonna present a giant, make it from like the charity or something that's actually, like, that can do more good. Not just your name and look how good you are. Cause that's all this was. But this just shows the. The deep level of narcissism that, I mean, Again, he's so deep into the game of nar, there's no way out. He doesn't see it. Nobody around him sees it. That's why his kids think the way that they do. Maybe someday they'll snap out of it once they get a bit older and get a chance to get into the world and outside of the bubble of Diddy, but holy shit. I mean, this is such. It's a cult. I mean, it's literally anybody who's diving into this world of him, it is a cult. It is a cult of Diddy. And so many people, as we've heard in these documents, documentaries over the last couple years, it felt like. It kind of felt like the cult documentaries. It kind of felt like Nexium. It felt like any of those where people are talking about getting out of Scientology and things of that nature of the control, the coercion and all of that. And how. Look on the surface how great we are. Look how wonderful we are. Look at some of the Scientology videos out there. That famous one where Tom Cruise gives that speech that's like 20 years old now, but everything's so grand and wonderful. Look at me. Look at me. Look how great I am. Tell me how great I am. Aren't I great? I'm great. You're great. I'm great. I'm great. And that's what this is. And to think that they thought the judge was gonna be like, you know what? You can walk out today. I know you got those speaking engagements. And let's talk about that for a moment.

Stacy Cole (103:27)

Yeah, please.

Tony Bruski (103:27)

The man had speaking engagements planned for this week. Week literally booked. And had the gall to bring that up in court. Not just like, you know, let's plan these ahead of time, and if. If we're fortunate enough that they let us out, okay, we can go do this. You know, they. They literally brought it up in court as, like, consideration for the judge of, like, you know, when you consider sentencing me, just remember he does have some speaking engagements next week already.

Stacy Cole (103:55)

Oh, well, we must let him out for having sakes.

Tony Bruski (103:58)

It's like, what the.

Stacy Cole (104:00)

They're non refundable tickets.

Tony Bruski (104:02)

Oh, my God. Like, how delusional does one have to be to. To. To get there?

Stacy Cole (104:10)

It makes me wonder if his attorneys were drinking the Kool Aid too, that they were getting sucked into the cult, that they started to believe it, that when the checks were clearing, they went, hey, okay, I'll do anything you want me to do, because how could you, as an attorney, sit there and get. And go, well, they've got the receipts. I mean, this guy was stomping on her head in a hallway. We saw it.

Tony Bruski (104:31)

Mel. They, the attorneys did pretty damn good in this trial for Diddy. At the end of the day.

Stacy Cole (104:36)

Yeah, at the end of the day, they did.

Tony Bruski (104:38)

Yeah. So they're already doing their victory lap. They're. I mean, their strategy worked.

Stacy Cole (104:45)

Good point.

Tony Bruski (104:47)

So there's.

Todd Michaels (104:49)

I just. Yeah, I just. I really, really can't imagine. Again, we all have stuff in our lives that we wish we hadn't done, didn't do, blah, blah, blah. Right. We make mistakes, we do stupid stuff. But to think you're gonna get in front of a judge and, and all that and play something like this. I'm just. I'm still blown away by this. Like this. This seems like something that you get before, like a. A lifetime achievement award at the Academy.

Tony Bruski (105:15)

Awards or something like that, doesn't it?

Todd Michaels (105:17)

It's like you're expecting him to come out to the podium and grab the statue and give a long speech.

Tony Bruski (105:22)

Yeah. Instead of get sentenced. Right?

Stacy Cole (105:24)

Well, yeah. It's a highlight reel.

Tony Bruski (105:26)

Yes. The. The judge said the evidence of abuse with respect to the freak offs and hotel nights is massive. He acknowledged Diddy's work. Yes. Called his philanthropic impact commendable, recognized his innovation, his roots, his influence. But then he said the line that will follow Diddy for the rest the of of his life. A history of good works can't wash away the record of this case. He also said to Diddy, you were no, John, you were responsible for that, even if your currency was sexual desires, not the money. And then came the gavel. 50 months, four years, two months. Five years of supervised release into 500,000. No applause, no gasps. Just the reality setting in that the brand has failed. Diddy turned to his family and whispered, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But it was too late, and the sentence had landed. So what do you think happens next? What do you think? Do you think he's gonna keep going in jail with his. His. His Diddy fair game or whatever the hell he calls his. His clean class once he's in prison? Or are we going to see a different Diddy now? That he's certainly going to be working for good behavior. But the idea of trying to make everybody think he's a changed man before sentencing, it didn't work out that great. He still got half of what was requested by the prosecution.

Stacy Cole (106:58)

Todd, can you put up the picture again? We're looking at a courtroom sketch. If you're watching on your YouTube. I I want to take a. Just a deep dive into the little hand movements he's got here. It's almost like the Home Alone, you know, the. Oh, my God. Ah.

Tony Bruski (107:14)

I. I was going. I was thinking more the Picasso.

Todd Michaels (107:18)

Yes, the. Yes.

Stacy Cole (107:19)

Yeah, The Scream.

Todd Michaels (107:20)

Yeah, the Scream.

Tony Bruski (107:20)

Scream. It looks like the Scream.

Stacy Cole (107:22)

It does. And I. I'm wondering who is standing behind him with what almost looks like a pentagram.

Tony Bruski (107:28)

It looks like an anarchy symbol is what I was thinking.

Stacy Cole (107:31)

Oh, okay. I was going a different direction.

Tony Bruski (107:34)

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if it's just the interpretation, because it is kind of a weird symbol on that. I think that might be an officer of the court and it might be like.

Stacy Cole (107:43)

Oh, so maybe it's like a star, like a shadow.

Tony Bruski (107:46)

Yeah, probably.

Todd Michaels (107:47)

There you go.

Stacy Cole (107:49)

Yeah. My brain went somewhere it probably shouldn't have, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tony Bruski (107:55)

Well, that's the Satanists that are. It's time to take you back, Diddy. Time to go back.

Todd Michaels (108:04)

I wonder, is anybody in prison gonna take his class after this, though?

Tony Bruski (108:08)

Of course.

Stacy Cole (108:08)

Oh, absolutely.

Tony Bruski (108:09)

Really? Yes.

Stacy Cole (108:11)

Yeah, they wanna get that certificate printed off of a dot matrix printer that says I took the Diddy class. That's exactly what they want.

Todd Michaels (108:21)

The question is, what does that get you? I mean, I'd frame that shit.

Tony Bruski (108:24)

That'd be funny on a dot matrix printer.

Stacy Cole (108:29)

Yeah. Our younger people are going, what is that?

Tony Bruski (108:32)

Well, will he offer an online edition of the class? I guess is the next question, so we can all take it at home and learn the wild ways of Diddy and how to be super successful even in the face of adversity. God help us all.

Todd Michaels (108:47)

I don't know. Can they stop him from doing it? Can they say, you're not allowed to do this stuff, or is he.

Stacy Cole (108:52)

Well, he can't profit from it.

Tony Bruski (108:53)

It was sanctioned by the Bureau of Prisons. Geez.

Todd Michaels (108:56)

Well, that's even worse.

Tony Bruski (108:58)

Yeah, it is. It's giving into this guy's God.

Stacy Cole (109:01)

Yeah.

Tony Bruski (109:02)

And we're in a world where people like. Well, people like people that plaster their names all over left and right. We love.

Todd Michaels (109:10)

We love celebrity in this country. If you're a celebrity, you can do pretty much anything you want.

Stacy Cole (109:15)

We've proven that.

Tony Bruski (109:16)

Yeah. So we'll see how long Ike lasts in prison.

Stacy Cole (109:22)

Oh, God.

Tony Bruski (109:25)

Kathy, Otis, like, Ike, go watch what's Love Got to Do With It?

Stacy Cole (109:30)

Go listen to the song first and then go watch it.

Tony Bruski (109:33)

I don't care who's wrong or right I don't really want to fight no more Too much talking. Great song.

Stacy Cole (109:43)

Tina Turner was a legend.

Todd Michaels (109:46)

She still, still is.

Stacy Cole (109:47)

Thank you, Todd. Yes, you're right.

Tony Bruski (109:49)

And when the Heartache Is over is also a great album or a great song.

Stacy Cole (109:53)

Yeah, I've been listening to that, actually. I listened to it three times over the weekend, had it cranked up as I was doing a road trip several times.

Tony Bruski (110:00)

I took that Compact disc from Star 105 in Toledo when Todd worked there. You stole it, and I visited you and it was in your office. I'm like, can I have this?

Todd Michaels (110:13)

Like, yeah, get it the hell out of here.

Tony Bruski (110:14)

Yeah. After. Yeah, I, I, I, I was, me and my friend, our friend Chris. I was like 17 at the time, and Chris was like 19 or so. And Todd had moved. He was. Because we're all from the same town and you were in Toledo. And I had to lie to my parents. I said I was going to, to like some other town to do a holiday with my girlfriend's grandma or something. And then we were like on the south side of Chicago or so. And then my parents are calling Chris going, wait, what's going on? I had to lie to go visit.

Stacy Cole (110:58)

So most people, most people lie to go see their girlfriends or, you know, somebody that they're having, having a relationship with. You just lied to go to a radio station to go see Todd?

Tony Bruski (111:11)

Yeah, yeah.

Todd Michaels (111:12)

Radio.

Tony Bruski (111:12)

Yeah.

Todd Michaels (111:13)

I thought for sure that you had told them you went to like a, a church getaway or something like that. A camp. A church camp or something.

Tony Bruski (111:20)

I had broken up with my girlfriend at the time, like a week earlier, so that didn't even add up because they called, like, the girlfriend's mom going, they broke up. God. Then I was like, yeah, we're going to go see Todd. Yeah. But, yeah, so there you go.

Stacy Cole (111:38)

I've got no words. I have no. Just your life, Tony. We should do an episode on your life at this point.

Todd Michaels (111:44)

An episode. We could do a series.

Stacy Cole (111:46)

A series. Could we?

Tony Bruski (111:47)

Random shit.

Stacy Cole (111:49)

Yeah.

Tony Bruski (111:49)

And I took a bunch of. And I didn't even drink beer at the time, but I took a bunch of Bud Lights from the radio station refrigerator and put them in, in a backpack and brought them with us. And Chris didn't drink either, so we brought all these Bud Lights along and nobody drank them.

Stacy Cole (112:09)

You're like the worst kid. You're, like, doing these horrible things, but yet you're not doing anything horrible.

Tony Bruski (112:14)

Exactly. In very organized, like, ways that are not going to cause problems. I think I returned them back to the radio station fridge. Got back.

Stacy Cole (112:26)

You stole them, but then you return them.

Tony Bruski (112:28)

Everything was I'm like, I'm not gonna drink them. Might as well go back to good use or something because that radio station always had, like, liquor in the fridge.

Stacy Cole (112:35)

Wasn't it giveaways or was it actually no staff?

Tony Bruski (112:38)

It was like staff. I mean.

Stacy Cole (112:40)

Oh, my God.

Tony Bruski (112:40)

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There you go. All right. Well, that's gonna wrap up this edition of the program. Be sure to press subscribe wherever you're downloading podcasts so you don't miss any of the our stories that we cover for you right here. And let us know your thoughts in the comment section there. We do greatly appreciate that. Until next time for Stacy and Todd, I'm Tony. We'll talk again real soon.

Robin Drake (113:02)

Want more on this case and others?

Tony Bruski (113:04)

Then press subscribe now. And don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Bruski and the Hidden Killers podcast.