← The Dr. Hyman Show
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- [00:00]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Coming up on this episode of the Doctor's Pharmacy.
- [00:03]
Senator Cory Booker
The people that are really losing in this country right now are the people that want to make healthy choices. But then they walk into the store.
- [00:12]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [00:12]
Senator Cory Booker
Really charged up for looking at, and they find packaging and things that literally are designed to confuse them or lie to them.
- [00:23]
Dr. Mark Hyman
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- [03:21]
Senator Cory Booker
Right before the world shut down.
- [03:23]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Exactly. And actually, I was talking about my book, Food Fix, which is about our food system and the challenges we have with the increasing burden of chronic illness, with the food policies that drive unintended consequences of increasing disease and costs and downstream effects on the environment, climate. I've been very focused on this. I have a nonprofit called the Food Fix Campaign. Senator Booker and I have worked closely together on trying to change food policy. So you're probably wondering why a senator is here and a cookbook book party, basically. And it's because he deeply cares about the health of our country and the state of our food system and the challenges he's seen as a result. And we were just chatting earlier, before, during COVID was sitting in Maui, Escape America, mainland America. And I got this call from this number from New Jersey on a Sunday afternoon. And I. And I picked up my phone. I normally don't answer numbers that I don't know. And it was Senator Booker. And he's like, mark, I just read your book Food Fix, and it blew my mind. And I want to work with you on this. Let's go. So it's been an amazing, you know, an amazing opportunity to really rethink how we. How we deal with our health and our nation. So we're going to do kind of a. Kind of A joint conversation. It's not all me, not all him will be talking about.
- [04:44]
Senator Cory Booker
But can I advertise that food fix? This is. We'll talk about the cookbook, I hope, but it's one of the most basic primers for anybody that cares about your family, your food, and your country. And you don't pull punches in it by talking about the corruption that has created the American food system. And I love how you talk about. In fact, you changed some of the things with me, with civil rights organizations, because when people were coming to me and saying, here's our agenda for black America, and I would say, how can you have an agenda for black America without talking about the number one killer of African Americans, if black lives matter, we have to talk about food and food systems that people are trapped in. And you laid it out so plain. And then give instructions for people. If you really want to fight to change the system, not just your own individual choices, but how do you create a system in this country, a food system that promotes health, wellness, longevity? Here are steps to take. So it's a great primer. And then I bought the book for members of the. Of the ad committee.
- [05:50]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Oh, really?
- [05:50]
Senator Cory Booker
Yeah, I bought the book for members of the ad committee. And what surprised me is a lot of people didn't know some of the basic things. I know we'll talk about momentarily, but really scary things that are being subsidized with our tax dollars that are creating a system that's creating some of the greatest levels of chronic illness in the planet.
- [06:10]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, that's true. I mean, and I think it's. It's true. I don't think people in Congress really had a deep understanding of the way in which the burden on our country and our population and our economy is because of the food system and the unintended consequences of it.
- [06:25]
Senator Cory Booker
Yeah. Well, this is a cookbook.
- [06:28]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yes.
- [06:28]
Senator Cory Booker
And I think what's inspiring. I told you last night, I've never really read a cookbook. So whenever I interview friends and their books, I want to read them. And I'm not the greatest cook in the world. You've never invited yourself over for one of my meals. But the beginning of it really sets the stage for why you wrote this cookbook and something that you've been this great evangelist of. And maybe you can start talking about what you learned or why you were inspired by the blue zones and what they are.
- [06:57]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, you know, I think I've always been interested in the science of creating health. That's what I do with functional medicine. And I think it became really clear to me that we're in a crisis where we're in the moment of science, where we know more and more about the root cause of illness and what to do about it. Yet we're seeing increasing rates of chronic disease, and we're seeing a decline in life expectancy for the first time in human history. And it's been year over year. Covid made it worse, but it was happening before COVID While we have this keys to longevity, to living a healthy 100 years, we. We haven't really addressed the, the reasons why we are so sick and, and overweight as a country. And. And 93% of Americans are metabolically and healthy, which means they have either high blood sugar, high blood pressure, high cholesterol.
- [07:42]
Senator Cory Booker
Hold on. 93.
- [07:44]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So actually it's 93.2%.
- [07:46]
Senator Cory Booker
Okay. Or metabolically unhealthy. What, what exactly does that mean?
- [07:51]
Dr. Mark Hyman
They have some level of prediabetes or some degree of insulin resistance. So they basically have poor metabolic health. And that's defined as having high blood pressure, high blood sugar, abnormal cholesterol, they're overweight, or they've had a heart attack or stroke. That means only 6%, 6.8% of Americans don't have that. And that's why we're seeing a decline in life expectancy. And it's because of our food. And the food we eat is the biggest generator of either longevity or chronic illness. And in my book, Young Forever, which was a precursor to the Cookbook, was really mapping out the science we have around what the root causes of this chronic disease epidemic are and how we can actually extend healthy life years. So our health span is how many years we're alive. I mean, you're healthy, and our lifespan is how many years are alive. But our health span has gone down dramatically, and the last 20% of people's life now is span in poor health. And so your quality of life goes down, but we can have a health span that equals our lifespan. You've all heard stories of, oh, so. And so was 100 years old, and she went to bed and went to sleep and had a nice dinner with her family before, and she was great.
- [08:52]
Senator Cory Booker
Right?
- [08:53]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And I think we all want that. We all want to kind of just kind of move through life and have a great healthy life and then die suddenly, as opposed to die slow, long, expensive, painful deaths, which is why we're seeing the, the burden on our healthcare system and our economy. So, you know, the blue zones really taught me that it's really about the most basic things, right?
- [09:09]
Senator Cory Booker
It's.
- [09:10]
Dr. Mark Hyman
It's the basic things of eating real food, of not eating all the processed food we're eating now, which is now 60% of our diet, is 67% of kids diet. And these are new to nature foods. They're deconstructed science projects that have been well proven to cause a whole host of chronic diseases. There was a big report in the last recently, like 37 different conditions that has been linked to mental health disorders, to fertility issues, to diabetes, heart disease, cancer. I mean, the list goes on. So we have to eat from not the ultra processed food that we're doing, right, To a more whole real food diet. They exercise naturally as part of their life. I met a guy, Pietro, who was 95 years old, was a shepherd, would hike five miles up a day with a sheep every day. He was, you know, both upright, clear eyes, booming Voice, sharp as attack, 95. We just don't see that in America. And they had a deep sense of community, so they had a sense of belonging, connection. And they ate together, they celebrated together, they lived together in a beautiful way, even if people. I've met a woman named Julia, she was 100, and she said, I'm 103 months. And. And she, you know, didn't have any kids, but she was living with her niece and they were taking care of her, and she was still working at 100 years old making doilies and things for weddings. And so they had a deep sense of connection and belonging. So the. The elements of longevity are really pretty simple. It's what we eat, it's how we move. It's our connection, community. It's how we deal with stress. I think that, you know, this guy Silvio I met, he was a amazing man whose family had this mountaintop kind of farm, and they had sheep and goats, and they made this beautiful dinner for us. And I said, sylvia, do you have any stress? He looked at me like, didn't really quite know what I meant. I know stress when things are hard or difficult. And he's like, oh, yeah? I said what? He said, well, sometimes at night a goat will get out and I'll have to go get it. Yeah. So we live in a time of chronic stress, both mental stress and. And environmental stresses and toxins you were talking about. And they don't have that, and we can't reproduce that exactly here, but we can learn a lot from the blue zones about how to create health.
- [11:17]
Senator Cory Booker
Well, I don't want to lose the great stories at the beginning of this, because eating cheese with worms.
- [11:24]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That was a good story. You might have gone, why don't you.
- [11:27]
Senator Cory Booker
Tell that before I ask you my next question.
- [11:28]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, there was a guy, Olinto, who basically had his own farm, and he grew all his own vegetables, had animals raised, you know, pigs and sheep and chickens and rabbits, and grew orchards. And he made us this sort of beautiful meal. And at the end he. He brought out this kind of big round thing of cheese and. And basically said, you know, this is special Sardinian cheese that is made with worms. And he said it's supposedly an aphrodisiac. And he told the story of his grandfather who had this and said his grandmother could still, you know, enjoy him even after he died. So I don't know, it was kind of a weird story, but it was amazing. And I ate it and I didn't die. It was kind of weird. But they basically have these traditional food ways that we've lost. And so getting back to food in its most basic form is a pretty simple idea, but it's something we've lost. And as a result of the food industry's efforts to take control of the American kitchen, to take control of the American farm, and to disenfranchise people from their own health. I think it's a national emergency, Corey, and I think we have to face this head on because we're just heading down a road where the burden of this is going to affect our children by living shorter, sicker lives than their parents. It's going to affect our ability to be competitive in the world because of a burden of illness. I mean, we're 4% of the world's population in Covid, and we were 16% of the cases and deaths not because we were had worse medical care, but because we had a pre inflamed sick population that was so susceptible to the virus when they got it.
- [13:07]
Senator Cory Booker
4% of the population, 16% of the cases and deaths of the cases and deaths. So I want to pull back because there's something we're not trying to do that you're not trying to do, which is this isn't about shaming people for their food choices. This isn't about shooting all over. People should do this, you should do that. Because I think when people read books, they start to feel bad about themselves and decisions they're trying to make. What I love about you and why you've been such a great ally and inspiration is you understand that if we grew up in indigenous cultures, you know, the African American health versus black people in Africa, depending on it, can be very dramatically different if they're still eating indigenous diets. The China study showed that the Chinese were living incredibly healthy until they started shifting towards Western diet. The Western diet. So what we're really trying to say is let's take a step back and look at the broken American food system, or they call the standard American diet, the sad system that has created so much illness because we're not morally more lacking because we're sick and unhealthy, more different than our great grandparents who were incredibly healthy.
- [14:19]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [14:20]
Senator Cory Booker
I was watching, as one does, Soul Train. We're gonna do a little Soul Train line. Thanks. Somebody in here knows what I'm talking about. That was a long time ago, and I. What stunned me when I watched Soul train from the 1960s and 70s was how thin.
- [14:37]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [14:37]
Senator Cory Booker
And fit everybody was.
- [14:39]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I mean, in the 60s, black Americans were healthier than white Americans.
- [14:41]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes. And because of the. Because of the food systems in which black Americans were stuck in. And so suddenly, we've now shifted to this system. And what you're talking about is it is not a moral failing to be obese in America now. You are in a system that is so toxic, that is so designed for your unhealthy. And what you are trying to do now, leading a leader in America in. Is to tell the truth about this broken system and say that we collectively, as a country, not only can change it, there is a health emergency going on that we must change it. And just some data that you and I were throwing back. I'm not sure if everybody here knows that one out of every three of your tax dollars that go to us, the federal government is spent on health care.
- [15:35]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Hmm.
- [15:35]
Senator Cory Booker
And a lot of those.
- [15:37]
Dr. Mark Hyman
$1.8 trillion.
- [15:38]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes.
- [15:38]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And it's. It is 40% of our total national spend on health care.
- [15:42]
Senator Cory Booker
And one out of every five dollars in our entire economy is going on health care. The overwhelming majority of that money is going to chronic diseases, the majority of which are preventable.
- [15:54]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And are food related.
- [15:55]
Senator Cory Booker
And are food related. And so now think about this. With the rates of diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, and what you call type 3 diabetes. Alzheimer's, which is Alzheimer's. If you are tracing these expenditures on those, they're going up and up and up. And the pharma industry is designing really expensive drugs. We don't have to change the food system. We don't have to change the inputs. Just pop this pill. Not to.
- [16:24]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Not to take this shot.
- [16:26]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes.
- [16:27]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And watch the south park episode on obesity. It's funny and also terrifying.
- [16:31]
Senator Cory Booker
But they're designing drugs to that. We don't know what the side effects of these are. In fact we know some of the side effects of the Alzheimer's drugs that are really expensive that people are flocking to. Not to stop Alzheimer's or slow, just to try and slow Alzheimer's when we know that access to fresh healthy foods is, is transformative. I was, we created in Newark when I was mayor a big turn an entire city block into an urban farm.
- [16:58]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [16:59]
Senator Cory Booker
And I went back there with Food Inc. 2 which you saw to film. And while we were filming it, African American women were coming out and wanted to testify. One woman said that her doctor said she had incurable gut problems that she had to be on this medication that cost 700. She had a hundred dollar co pay. So she's paying a lot of money, $100 a month to her and $600 a month to us as taxpayers. And then she started sourcing all of her food and her doctor said oh it's a miracle you're cured after eating all this food. Another woman came to me, 80 year old octogenarian who had created an Instagram account called the Octogenarian Vegan because she started eating all of her food and her diabetes which she had for years, years and years, she suddenly was off. You know this is a doctor, a functional medicine doctor that these are not incurable problems if we change our input. So the point I want to make to you, and I hope that you'll expound upon it is you have been focusing a lot on individual behavior. Yes, you've definitely helped me in my individual journey as a friend. But systemic change you're saying has got to be made in our system and that's where we found alliances. Can you talk about one of the systemic changes that you're trying to make at our America?
- [18:10]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, I mean I think you know our effort with the Food Fix campaign is really to educate lawmakers about the problem which they had very low awareness of. I mean you're one of the few really gets it in Congress. And, and you know we're working on a number of different initiatives to help change policies that are driving the production of the wrong food and the, the eating of the wrong food. So for example we, we were helpful in the $20 billion that was in the inflation Reduction act that was to support climate smart agriculture. We've been very aggressive in trying to work with Medicare to cover medically tailored meals. And you've introduced a bill in, in the Senate and we'll slow down.
- [18:50]
Senator Cory Booker
Let's Take this pieces at a time. Let's go to food production in the United States.
- [18:53]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [18:54]
Senator Cory Booker
Our great great grandparents had a lot more plant and crop diversity, right?
- [18:58]
Dr. Mark Hyman
100%. Yeah. And.
- [19:00]
Senator Cory Booker
And this was before seeds were patented for their biology to withstand this thing called Roundup. Yeah. So what is happening to our soil and the foods that we're growing right now? This sort of, what is this mono cropping five crops that we're pouring sort of all over?
- [19:19]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. I mean, basically we have to fix our food system from the field to the fork.
- [19:23]
Senator Cory Booker
Right.
- [19:24]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And starting at the field is a big problem because commodity based agriculture, corn, wheat and soy has been a boon to big agrochemical and agriseed companies and big food producers, but not to the farmers who are suffering both in terms of their health and their economic welfare. And has also been extremely destructive to the ecosystem of the farm, which used to be a multi crop diverse ecosystem that now is a monocrop system. That is farming ways that destroy the soil. The mycorrhizal fungi, the organic matter. One third of all the carbon in the atmosphere today is from the soil. So driving climate change, the runoffs from the nitrogen fertilizer into our river, river rivers and lakes is called eutrophication. That's. It's creating dead zones the size of New Jersey. Nothing against New Jersey, but dead zone the size of New Jersey in the Gulf of Mexico. There's 400 of these around the world that feed a half a billion people. The pesticides and herbicides are affecting, you know, farmers and us and affecting our health. We're seeing the inadequacy of the food that, that we used to grow, which was nutrient dense. And now even if you're growing eating vegetables and fruit, the, the nutrients aren't in the food because. Because soil is required to extract the nutrients. When I say so, I mean not dirt, which is just without life. But I'm talking about a robust soil ecosystem is a symbiotic relation between the soil, the microorganisms in the soil, the micro fungi and the plants and humans. And so we're seeing drops in mineral levels and protein levels and vitamin levels in our food. Even if we're eating broccoli today, it's not the broccoli we ate 50 years ago.
- [21:00]
Senator Cory Booker
So let me do your color commentary and go into a few things he said which to me should sober all of us. The first is American farmers are in a system that does not work. We are losing thousands and thousands of American farmers who are going out of business or Killing themselves or their suicide rates are three times higher than ours. I visited with some of these farmers in the Midwest from both parties and saw people that had their homestead act deed up. So five generations of farmers, the economics worked and now it's to them and the economics no longer work because you have this monopolization in the food system where now all of the input companies are consolidated. Monsanto now bare jacking up the prices of the inputs. Farmers used to harvest their own seeds and re put them in. Now they've been patented, they're being sold roundup resistance. So you have to buy these chemicals and this way of farming which we are subsidizing, our department of Agriculture is built around it is unsustainable for the farmers economics. One farmer said to me all my costs have gone up. I used to have five people to sell the competing for my goods. Now it's one or two companies because you know, big food is consolidated into a handful of companies and they're being driven to their share of the consumer dollar has gone down something like 40% in the last like a few decades. And so they're, they're shrinking abilities to make it. So the farmers are suffering and going out of business at tough numbers.
- [22:35]
Dr. Mark Hyman
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- [23:17]
Senator Cory Booker
Our soil is a crisis in our country. We are killing our soil. Yeah, soil runoff is horrible. As you said, it's killing our ecology, seeping into and poisoning groundwater. With all these chemicals flowing into our rivers and streams, down the Mississippi river into the biggest dead zone that's the size of two Rhode Islands. Why are you picking on New Jersey?
- [23:37]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I don't know, I just two or not using one. New Jersey, Connecticut.
- [23:44]
Senator Cory Booker
So. So we are killing our ecology and climate change which all of these people who are in the climate movement want to talk about. Oil and gas companies. Not enough people are talking about the food system and the way we're doing.
- [23:57]
Dr. Mark Hyman
It, the one thing arguably the biggest contributor to climate change.
- [24:00]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes.
- [24:00]
Dr. Mark Hyman
In order to deal with fossil fuels and decarbonize, we also have to deal with our agricultural system.
- [24:05]
Senator Cory Booker
And then, and that's just for the commodity crops you're talking about. Not to ment the perversion of how our grandparents used to raise cattle, to raise pigs, used to raise chicken. What's happened with these small handful of companies, Tysons, jb, you name it. They've started to do these massive factory farming operations which are also creating incredibly horrible runoffs in these CAFOs where you go to places like Duplin County, North Carolina and see lagoons of pig feces.
- [24:34]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And the health consequences for the people around that are horrible, like asthma and respiratory diseases and the kids are affected.
- [24:39]
Senator Cory Booker
I've sat with those families in crowded black churches off they're in low income minority neighborhoods so we could have our cheap bacon. Which shouldn't even say that because people, places like Smithfield just ship it all to China. But the horrific lives of the people that live in these low income areas that deal with all this runoff and especially when storms come through, they just pick up all that fees, polluting water. I was in Iowa when campaigning for president and the people were telling me I can't fish out of my creek anymore, can't drink the water out of my well. And what most Americans don't realize is we are subsidizing that system as it is.
- [25:12]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [25:12]
Senator Cory Booker
To produce those handful of commodity crops. Again, you may be surprised by this data point, but less than 10%, about 7% of our ag subsidies go to the foods that functional medicine doctors tell us the majority of what we should eat.
- [25:27]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I mean 5% of the corn is grown is actually eaten as corn. Most of it's turned into highly deconstructed science ingredients that are reassembled into food like substances or that are, you know.
- [25:39]
Senator Cory Booker
Used for oil or I mean soybean oil, corn oil, high fructose corn syrup. This is what we're, this is what we're making cheaper. And so you said from farm to fork. What that means for us in our communities is we could go to a DC corner grocery store and find a Twinkie product because all of those things we just said are being subsidized in that scientifically engineered product to engineer for addiction. They know how our brains work. You're going to pay less for an apple than you will for a Twinkie product. So now you're a consumer and you're not paying the true Cost. We have decided as a society that we're going to drive down the cost of the foods that make us most sick and drive up the costs for the foods that we need. So you can get a. A Happy Meal or whatever at McDonald's, these dollar meals, all of that is deeply subsidized. Then we pay for it again on the Medicaid, Medicare costs, and you go down the street and try to get a bucket of salad, and it costs 15 bucks.
- [26:35]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [26:36]
Senator Cory Booker
And so we have created a system where everyone is losing, environment is losing, our college is losing, animals are losing and the horrific ways that they're being raised. Farmers are losing and consumers are losing. And you all are.
- [26:51]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Government's losing by having to pay, you know, a third of its tax revenue.
- [26:55]
Senator Cory Booker
A third of its tax revenue going through chronic disease.
- [26:57]
Dr. Mark Hyman
The consequences of our food system.
- [26:58]
Senator Cory Booker
Right. The only people are winning is these large multinational corporations that are consolidating and have near monopolistic power. And then what do they do when we walk in? For the consumer that has heard Dr. Hyos teasing him that I listened to so many of his podcasts, I've gone to bed with him. Not in a literal way.
- [27:15]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I put him to sleep every night.
- [27:17]
Senator Cory Booker
I just lie him next to me and he soothes me off. It's very intimate, my friend. It's very intimate. Listen to his podcast. It is. You have amazing guests that are extraordinary. But, but, but the people that are. That are really losing in this country right now are the people that want to make healthy choices. But then they walk into the store.
- [27:41]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [27:42]
Senator Cory Booker
Really charged up for looking at. And they find packaging and things that literally are designed to confuse them or lie to them.
- [27:51]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [27:51]
Senator Cory Booker
First of all, the pictures of the beautiful cows or the beautiful pastoral views don't show what it's like, really.
- [27:58]
Dr. Mark Hyman
No.
- [27:58]
Senator Cory Booker
CAFOs and all of that. You don't know what chemicals that are banned in Europe that are actually in that food. And the package labeling, as we were talking, maybe you can expand on that is confusing as hell.
- [28:09]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. I mean, I think all you said is so important, Corey, because really, the whole system, you know, wasn't originally designed to make us sick and ruin the environment, but it's unintended consequences of food policies that were set in place, you know, 50, 70 years ago and that haven't been reformed and updated. And that's really, you know, what has to happen. And it has to happen because, you know, as you said, we are. We're seeing this national emergency and this crisis across the whole spectrum of society. And government. And to me, it's such an urgency that we have to hit it head on. And I don't think the food companies, now that they have what they have, are willing easily let go of it. They need the government to kind of step in. And one of the ways that has been effective in other countries is food labeling. We don't want to be the nanny state. We don't want to tell people what to do, but we want to inform people. We want to give them choices. We want to educate them about what's good and not good for them. Now, there's a lot of debate about what is good and not good. And the food industry will try to confuse you and say we don't have enough data. But recently, I mean, it's pretty frightening how the food industry gets in the weeds and all this. But we actually now have the ability to label foods with warning labels, like they do in South America, like they do in Europe, like they do in Canada, that are clear and understandable. I mean, unless you have a PhD in nutrition, it's hard to understand a nutrition facts label. I mean, if I said there's 39 grams of sugar in a food, I would ask, how many of you know how many teaspoons that is? Well, maybe if you listen to me on the podcast, you might know, but most people have no clue. Like someone said, I was on the Today show this morning, and the woman said, yeah, my daughter was having like a sports drink and had 50 grams of sugar. I said, yeah, that's like more than 12 teaspoons of sugar in a drink, and no idea they're eating that. And so the food issue is very. Been very active in trying to block any reform on food labeling. But imagine having front of package labeling saying, this is good for you, this is bad for you. Like they have in other countries. Like, red is bad for you, yellow, eat with caution, green is good for you. Anybody can understand that. But to look at a food label now or an ingredient list, it's just very confusing. And so we need to make it simple for people to make the right choices. And when they've done that in these countries, they've seen a dramatic change in the health of the population, in what people buy, and they've actually been able to make a dent in the. In the obesity and chronic disease crisis.
- [30:24]
Senator Cory Booker
Right. And what I love about you, and this is how I feel too, is I'm not. I don't want to take away anybody's freedom. I know what it feels like to come home from A really hard day.
- [30:33]
Dr. Mark Hyman
You don't have any of those in an easy place to work, like the U.S. senate.
- [30:36]
Senator Cory Booker
Yeah.
- [30:39]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Where everybody gets along.
- [30:40]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes.
- [30:41]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Party all the time.
- [30:43]
Senator Cory Booker
I know what it's like to come home tired, rest after banging your head against implacable walls of resistance. And all I want to do is get into this central embrace with my two best friends, Ben and Jerry. I want that freedom. I don't want somebody to take away that freedom from me.
- [30:58]
Dr. Mark Hyman
My friends are Hagen and Das.
- [30:59]
Senator Cory Booker
Your friends are Hagen and Das. You always like those international types. But I want that freedom. But I don't want the government to subsidize my. My subsidized that. Especially when they're not subsidizing fruits and vegetables. And I'll tell you this. How would we feel if we were subsidizing alcohol.
- [31:20]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [31:20]
Senator Cory Booker
Or subsidizing marijuana?
- [31:22]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Subsidizing tobacco.
- [31:23]
Senator Cory Booker
Or subsidizing tobacco. Yes.
- [31:26]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Still. Yes.
- [31:27]
Senator Cory Booker
And so what my point is, is we believe in freedom, but there's two types of freedom. Freedom of choice. I never want to be the person taking the person bacon, cheeseburger and milkshake out of your hand. I don't want to be that guy. But I want freedom to know as well. Freedom to know what's in your foods. And their system of food packaging right now is designed to confuse you. For example, I know consumers who look at the ingredients. I do. Let me look at the ingredients. And they're looking for sugar. And it's way down. Well, it's not really way down on the list. Regularly, routinely. What companies, food companies do, which they don't do overseas, they're not allowed. They don't allow it. They take. They decide, okay, well, we're going to put seven different types of sugar into this product or five or four different types of sugar in this product so it doesn't show up as the number one ingredient. So consumers will look at it and say, oh, well, the number one ingredient is wheat or what have you. It's. That's not bad for you. They try to intentionally confuse the consumers.
- [32:24]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [32:24]
Senator Cory Booker
And you and I have been saying that the fda, which does so much drug trials, studies the fda, the federal Food and Drug Administration, does a lot on the D. But we believe they should put the F back in the FDA and start focusing on foods and what they're doing to us because there are chemicals that we put dyes and more chemicals that are banned in other countries that we allow freely into our food system that are having untold. And I listen to your podcast a lot and read your books about how important we're realizing the microbiome is. And some of these things we're pouring into our guts that really have effect on our mental health, our physical health, as, as well as our longevity.
- [33:05]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And £22 a year of additives are consumed by people who eat the average American diet. 22 pounds. So that, like little micro ingredients we're eating, they're. They're pounds. If you're eating 60% of your diet is ultra processed food, it's 22 pounds. And those have horrible consequences for your gut microbiome, for driving inflammation, for toxicities around cancer. And there's things like butylated hydroxytoluene, which you wouldn't have in your cupboard and sprinkle on your salad, but it's in your food.
- [33:33]
Senator Cory Booker
Right. And if I. And if we took the blood of anybody in here, would there anybody that would not have glyphosate in there?
- [33:39]
Dr. Mark Hyman
No. I mean, I try to eat healthy. I mean, I don't always have the capacity to choose everything I'm eating because I travel. But, you know, 80% of Americans have glyphosate in their urine. 80%. And I, I tested mine as well, and I have it too. And I'm like, you know, we're all. And glyphosate is a known carcinogen, is a microbiome destroyer. It has generational effects on, on our epigenome, which causes transgenerational changes and kidney issues and cancer.
- [34:07]
Senator Cory Booker
And consumers don't know. They're not. They don't.
- [34:09]
Dr. Mark Hyman
No, nobody knows. I mean, like, I mean, we're, I think, the only country other than, I think, Syria that doesn't allow GMO labeling. There was a. There was an act in Congress that was designed to allow for GMO labeling. It was euphemously called the Dark act, denying Americans the right to know. And the food industry spent $192 million lobbying Congress over this one bill.
- [34:32]
Senator Cory Booker
Right.
- [34:32]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And Syria and the US Are the only countries, and Russia and China, which are not known for their openness, are actually labeling GMOs.
- [34:40]
Senator Cory Booker
And I'm glad you said that, because it's the end before I want to get really quickly and give the good news, because I think we're telling the dark story right now. But again, we in Congress, I always say, after perhaps the defense industrial complex, the next most powerful lobby, because it's.
- [34:58]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Bigger, the food lobby is bigger than the defense lobby.
- [35:01]
Senator Cory Booker
Okay, you said it. And it gives to both sides of the political aisle. Protecting a system that is bankrupt because it's hurting all of the people that we went through, from the farmers themselves to the end users. We're not.
- [35:13]
Dr. Mark Hyman
We privatize the profits and socialize the costs. Right. So the taxpayers are left holding the bag and the bill.
- [35:19]
Senator Cory Booker
Right.
- [35:20]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And that has a change.
- [35:21]
Senator Cory Booker
Right. The taxpayers are subsidizing the things that make us sick and then paying for the, for the incredible medical costs. And many Americans feel lost because they live in communities. We're just finding access to healthy, fresh food and the very farm system that farmers want. When we were able to make some changes and get climate smart farm practices through Joe Biden and Congress's inflation reduction act, billions of dollars farmers flocking to that money because they want to raise organic, they want to do cover crops, they want to do no till farming, they want to take on practices because at the end of the day farmers are good stewards of the land. But if they feel like they're in the system where it's the only thing they know and the only and the incentives are to do these practices, they're going to continue to do those practices. And the good news, which I want to shift to before we open this up for some questions and other discussion, the good news is we believe that the more number one, we can educate the public about this, the more pressure we're going to create. Because change doesn't come from Washington. It comes to Washington by an informed public that demands suffrage, that demands civil rights, that demands Medicare, that demands organizing rights. All of these things, the changes that we've been able to make, even the EPA and the laws of our clean water and clean air happen because of public awareness being raised in demands. And so you believe, and I share this belief, that there are shifts that we could be making in our systems to make them more benefit farmers, to break up these big monopolies that are dominating it by actually enforcing antitrust law but starting to put the incentives in the right places to produce the outcome. So there is more of a flourish and abundance of healthy foods and more informed consumers about the foods that aren't healthy for us.
- [37:15]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Right.
- [37:16]
Senator Cory Booker
You're okay to choose them, but you should see clearly on labels, should not have deceptivity, should have a transparency as well.
- [37:25]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, I mean ultra processed food and sugar. They need tobacco. I mean when you look at the way the tobacco industry was, they were denying the harmful health effects of it. They were denying the addictiveness of it. And you know, we know from the Yale Food Addiction Scale and it's been researched across the globe that 14% of the global population is technically addicted to food and 12% of kids and alcoholism is 14%. So we really, in a situation where we have to, we have to hit this head on and we have to learn how to start to incentivize the right behaviors by educating consumers, by providing the right labeling. Food marketing is another thing. I mean we, we allow marketing to our children and also targeting African Americans, Hispanics, that, that is driving their disease rates through the roof. I mean like childhood obesity is now at 40%. Over 25% of kids are. I mean, sorry, that overweight is 40%, obesity is around 25%. And if we were having a foreign nation due to our kids, what we're doing, we would go to war to protect them. But we're doing it. And we know that for example in Chile where they eliminated all junk food advertising on all medium between 6am and 10pm so the kids wouldn't see it. They eliminated all the cartoon characters. There's no Tony the Tiger anymore or down to the Fruit Loops guy, whatever that is, those don't exist. And the cereal packaging and they have the warning labels and it's that, that education of consumers and that you're telling.
- [38:49]
Senator Cory Booker
Me that GMO frosted glyphosate full wheat covered in sugar is just not, is not a healthy.
- [38:57]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, you know, maybe if you're a Martian, I don't know, for humans. And it, and it's, you know, it's, it's, it's tragic what's happening to our children. And so at the very least we should be able to protect our children and have right child friendly labeling.
- [39:11]
Senator Cory Booker
And as we have the military come into us and tell us that 70% of American youth right now can't qualify for military service. 70% of American youth can't qualify for military.
- [39:21]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I mean the irony is that the school of lunch program was developed because the recruits in World War II were malnourished and the federal government put in a school lunch program. Now that same program is causing our kids to be sick and overweight and 70% don't qualify. What's even scarier is that of the evacuations from Afghanistan and Iraq during those wars, 72% were for obesity related injuries, not for war like related to obesity related causes. And this is not, this is not my opinion. This is from military readiness as a group of retired admirals and generals who made these reports.
- [39:57]
Senator Cory Booker
And so we're spreading out, you and I are supporting a lot of things which I just want to make people aware. Those women that came to me at that incredible urban farm, they were benefiting from the gusnip program, which means that if you have taking what used to be called food stamps to a. Your benefits to a farmer's market, you can get twice the double bar. Everything doubles. And I was blown away what $5 could buy at this farmer's market. We're supporting the climate, smart farming practices and more. Working in tangent with farmers like the Farmers Union and others trying to transform American farmers, bringing it back to our heritage. We're doing a lot to try to force front of last label packaging, create targets to lower sugars and, and, and salt in our, in industry there's just a lot of very good medically tailored.
- [40:47]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Meals and medically tailored education for doctors. And changes in Medicare reimbursement.
- [40:52]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes.
- [40:52]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Because you know, for every dollar we spend on food, we're spending $3 in collateral damage.
- [40:56]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes.
- [40:57]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And what the price we pay at the checkout counter is not the true cost of the food. The Rockefeller foundation had a great report on this and it was, you know, documenting that not only the harmful health effects, but the effects on, on the land and the ecosystems and climate and the social impacts. All these things are quantifiable and they're, they're bankrupting our country. And we're not paying the cost from the, the, at the, at the, the true cost at the checkout counter. And maybe a can of Coke should be $100 and an apple should be 10 cents.
- [41:25]
Senator Cory Booker
Well, I just recall all these people who believe in the free market. Stop the government subsidies.
- [41:30]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [41:31]
Senator Cory Booker
And, and let's let the free market decide with, with the market itself. Again, if you believe in Adam Smith, it's about having market information. It's about knowing if we had that then companies would be rushing to give consumers what they really want because the demand for healthy fresh foods. Every parent wants what's best. I'll give. You were just stuck in Vegas. It's like a movie. You were stuck there for a while and then he made the best of it by going to see the Grateful Dead. But, but it was a. He had a conference in Vegas and I'm going to use this as example. I talked to a head of a major casino operation, a really great guy named Jim Murren. And he, and I was complaining to him as mayor because it was a recession and I was cutting the size of my government, finding great ways to create new efficiencies. But the two costs I couldn't cover cover were pension costs and health Care costs. And so I was complaining to him. He goes, corey, I figured out my health care costs. And I thought, I don't know, did you get a new plan? Did you manage? This is like us. During the presidential debate when I ran for president, all these people on the debate stage arguing over how are we going to provide health care in America. Medicare for all. Oh, we should do this. We should. Nobody. Everybody's talking about how to mop up the floor. Nobody was talking. I have to turn off the sink. Which is a real conversation we should be having in our presidential debates and more. But what was amazing about this corporate leader was that he. He said, corey, I couldn't figure out this problem that I went into my cafeteria that fed thousands of my employees, and I see deep fryers and big sugary buns and all of this stuff. And I was kind of horrified. And he ripped it all out. And he said, this union. And we're, like, ready to, like, strike on him because they took away all this great food. But he hired the best chefs, come in and cook healthy, nutritious food recipes for my cookbook. Yeah, I looked at some of this stuff, and I think that he would love this. And it was amazing. Suddenly, people, his employees, shifted from ready to protest him to just loving it even more. And then asking him, well, this single mother who works two shifts at the. At the blackjack table goes home. Like every pressure that mothers did, like my family did, and runs through the drive through on the way home. So they said, well, maybe I could take some of this food home. So he let them, and he said, my cost curve started to bend.
- [43:41]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That's right.
- [43:41]
Senator Cory Booker
He got the double bottom line. Yeah, he got to save money for his company, but his employees were healthier, had better focus, concentration, all of these health benefits that made them happier and better and more effective at their workforce, not to mention at their family. Well, we're America, Inc. Right now, and we're supplying all cheap foods that are making us sick. And the costs are going up. We should figure out ways to shift. And so the reason why I enjoyed reading your cookbook is two things. One is you tell a beautiful story, and you let us as consumers know that these recipes are so easy, even a senator can make them. But what's more importantly is it's part of me, if I put your books up here of your incredible passion, which I love and you've helped my life, is that you believe that Americans are not born to suffer.
- [44:36]
Dr. Mark Hyman
No.
- [44:36]
Senator Cory Booker
That we're born to be healthy and vibrant and thriving. You've seen this from your examinations of you can take guys at major prisons and jails, give them access to fresh and healthy food, and incidences of violence go down and their success rates go up all the way to our children who give it fresh, healthy foods, their scores go up. But more importantly, at a time that we're suffering a crisis, not just in physical health, but the anxiety, depression.
- [45:05]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. It's something people don't talk about. Right. I mean the obesity, diabetes, people get it.
- [45:09]
Senator Cory Booker
Yeah.
- [45:10]
Dr. Mark Hyman
People don't realize that this food that we're producing in America is causing a mental health crisis. And you know, when you look at the cost burden of all chronic disease, both in terms of direct healthcare costs and also indirect costs, depression and mental illness is number one. It causes people to be disabled, loss of quality of life, years. And the costs are staggering. And we see the disconnect in the brain between the limbic part of the brain and the frontal brain, the old reptile lizard brain and the adult in the room, which is the frontal lobe. And neuroinflammation is this now well understood phenomena that disconnects the adult in the room from the crazy person in the brain. Right. And that neuroinflammation is caused by our ultra processed food and by our diet. And that's something that we haven't really talked about is.
- [46:01]
Senator Cory Booker
Just take it around your. Yes.
- [46:07]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Is there audio good?
- [46:08]
Senator Cory Booker
Yep. You're good.
- [46:09]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. I think people haven't realized that the disconnect in the mental health crisis by not talking about food, because food is one of the biggest drivers of depression, anxiety, conflict, aggressiveness, divisiveness, all the things we're seeing now in our society. The polarization and the food system inadvertently has led to this not only obesity and diabetes crisis, but a crisis of mental health. And it's something that we know can be fixed through fixing the metabolic dysfunctions of the brain.
- [46:36]
Senator Cory Booker
All right. They'll never invite me back to 6th and I if I don't. And so there's two microphones here while you all whoever questions, maybe you can come up here and ask the question. And what I'm going to do though is first is we have a virtual audience watching as well. And I'm going to answer some of these questions. And I think that this first one from Susan B. In Virginia, it doesn't say it here, but I imagine Susan B. In Virginia wishes she lived in New Jersey.
- [47:07]
Dr. Mark Hyman
New York specifically. Yeah.
- [47:08]
Senator Cory Booker
Very specific. I could tell. I can sense. Do you? The Garden State. You would love you. That must be Dr. Hyman's favorite state.
- [47:16]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I used to live in New Jersey, the Garden State.
- [47:18]
Senator Cory Booker
We grow great things in our Garden State, the fourth largest producer of eggplant in America. Top that. Do. Do you recommend a chewable probiotic to strengthen your oral microbiome? I didn't know there was an oral biome. I did not know that. If so, what should I look for when choosing a product?
- [47:38]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, that's a great, very specific question. And the truth is that the microbiome, which is the sum total of all the bugs in on us, on our skin and our mouth and our respiratory tract and our guts, all plays a huge role in our health. And we know that the oral microbiome is highly influencing our risk of dementia and our risk of heart disease.
- [47:58]
Senator Cory Booker
Really?
- [47:59]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And obesity. Yeah. And then having bad teeth and bad gums is a huge risk factor for inflammation throughout the body, which is one of the biggest drivers of all these conditions. So having bad teeth is a real problem. In fact, I was at a conference recently and they were listening from the 1600s. What were the major causes of death? And one of the major causes of death was bad teeth.
- [48:17]
Senator Cory Booker
Wow. One of my friends used to say, death enters through the gums.
- [48:21]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. So. So keeping your gums healthy in your mouth or a microbiome healthy is important. And oral probiotics can be helpful. So I don't have a opinion about particular one, but taking probiotics and chewable probiotics are great.
- [48:33]
Senator Cory Booker
So when I go into the store, like in five years, they're going to be like, choose Wrigley's.
- [48:37]
Dr. Mark Hyman
The oral probiotic, probably with a lot of sugar and.
- [48:40]
Senator Cory Booker
Yeah, yeah, a lot of stuff. All right.
- [48:43]
Dr. Mark Hyman
What did Sarah Palin say? You put a lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig.
- [48:46]
Senator Cory Booker
It's still a pig. All right, we're going to get to her one noble. Oh, finally. She was way first. We're gonna get to her. But I'm gonna ask before we go to. To you, one more of the. I want to make sure the virtual people know that we read their comments and their questions. This one's a tough one. I face it every day as one of the few on the black sheep of the family, the vegan amongst us. What advice do you have to navigate differences, food and diet choices within a family. And when some family members see choices as being picky or fancy rather than health driven?
- [49:19]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, I mean, I don't think it should be a choice between healthy eating and delicious eating, I think that's a false dichotomy.
- [49:27]
Senator Cory Booker
Right.
- [49:27]
Dr. Mark Hyman
To think that you have to suffer and starve and eat like cardboard in order to actually be healthy is a huge myth. And it's, it's, it's unfortunate myth because, you know, it's promulgated by the food industry that is encouraging us to indulge and pleasure ourselves. In fact, the food industry was just called out for hiring all these nutritionists and dietitians to go online and talk about why people should just indulge their, their cravings and should not restrict their diets and should eat as much as they want and should have all these indulgent foods. And it was an expose. It was the Washington Post, and it was, it was frightening. Like, 40% of the nutritionists on social media are paid by the food industry to give misinformation about what they're eating.
- [50:09]
Senator Cory Booker
And a lot of these studies that come out that says sugar is the new whatever or whatever are paid for by, by the food instrument.
- [50:18]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. I mean, and all the recommendations, I mean, the American Diabetes association was just sued by their head nutritionist because they fired her because she wouldn't endorse the foods that they were recommending. And $134 million of their budget is given by the pharma industry and a huge portion by the food industry. And so they're not incentivized to actually do the right thing. And many of these associations have been co opted and I detail that in my book. But the truth is, if you have a family, get in the kitchen together, go shopping together, go to the farmers markets, get what people like, and make delicious versions of what you like. And a lot of the recipes in the book and the cookbook are indulgent recipes, but they're made with helpful ingredients.
- [50:55]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes.
- [50:56]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And they can taste good and they are good for you. So you can love food that loves you back.
- [51:00]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes. Oh, my gosh. Okay, we're going to go to the first person, introduce yourself, and tell people what your relationship to New Jersey is. I mean, tell people, tell people what your question is, actually.
- [51:10]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, first, before I say anything, I.
- [51:13]
Senator Cory Booker
Think speak for everyone.
- [51:14]
Dr. Mark Hyman
You get closer to Mike. Yes. I think I speak for everyone here. Thank you for your unwavering support for Israel and your fight against antisemitism. It's really important and off topic, but thank you.
- [51:27]
Senator Cory Booker
Thank you.
- [51:29]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Also, Corey's an honorary Jew. He speaks Hebrew better than I do. My connection to New Jersey is you were the one who helped me decide.
- [51:38]
Senator Cory Booker
To use a wheelchair because on my.
- [51:41]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Amtrak train home in 2008 from New Jersey, I only had a cane and I fell flat in your lap, face first. And I was like, it's time. Get a wheelchair. So thank you, New Jersey.
- [51:55]
Senator Cory Booker
You're the one person that has ever fallen for me. I will fall as many times as.
- [52:00]
Dr. Mark Hyman
You would like for you.
- [52:02]
Senator Cory Booker
Thank you very much.
- [52:04]
Dr. Mark Hyman
My question is, is that it's hard to get a lot of this information.
- [52:09]
Senator Cory Booker
I read last week about a study.
- [52:11]
Dr. Mark Hyman
That came out that the reason there's double colon cancer in young adults is.
- [52:16]
Senator Cory Booker
Because of what we eat.
- [52:17]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. But it's hard to get the information. So thank you, Cleveland Clinic. Thank you, Mayo Hopkins. But the reason I'm understanding that a.
- [52:26]
Senator Cory Booker
Lot of the information isn't public is because all these food studies are funded by Big Pharma.
- [52:33]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [52:34]
Senator Cory Booker
So they want to hide it as much as possible.
- [52:36]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And so between big Pharma and food.
- [52:39]
Senator Cory Booker
Deserts and the rising price of farmland.
- [52:42]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And how people like Bill Gates own it all, how is it that we could even attempt to start this fight?
- [52:50]
Senator Cory Booker
Because it looks like we're already starting.
- [52:52]
Dr. Mark Hyman
At such a deficit. Yeah. And my other question is, I can't.
- [52:56]
Senator Cory Booker
Believe I'm saying this.
- [52:58]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Could we model things after the soda industry?
- [53:01]
Senator Cory Booker
Like, now they're saying there's a lot of calories.
- [53:03]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Buy one of our mini ones, and.
- [53:05]
Senator Cory Booker
They clearly label, like, zero calories on.
- [53:08]
Dr. Mark Hyman
The front of it.
- [53:09]
Senator Cory Booker
Like, how much could we learn from Coke and Pepsi?
- [53:12]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I don't know. That's a hard one. I know. I feel ridiculous saying that.
- [53:16]
Senator Cory Booker
Oh, no, no, that's good. Go ahead, doctor.
- [53:20]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I mean, I think the policies that we have to implement are ones that help to really hit this straight on. And one of the big challenges is there's been a lack of funding for nutrition at the National Institute of Health. You know, they have all the Institutes of diseases. They don't have a National Institute of Health. They're not studying health. And so you study diabetes or heart disease or Alzheimer's. These are all downstream. And there's no National Institute of Nutrition, which we should have and many other countries have. The food industry spends $12 billion a year, 12 times as much money as the federal government and philanthropy, on research on food. So when you look at the data as a result of these studies, they're 8 to 50 times more likely to show a positive benefit for their particular product. So, for example, there's a study in, I think, the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that artificial sweeteners are fine and they're not harmful for you. And, you know, it's funded by the American Beverage Association. So you know, basically science has been bought and paid for and we think we're gaining independent science. And that's why consumers are so confused because they're hearing all kinds of things that are not making sense. And the food industry is attempting to on purpose confound and confuse the American public. And through many channels, right through their efforts on co opting professional associations like the American Heart association, the American Diabetes Association. 40% of the academy nutrition dietetics budget comes from the food industry. You have social groups like Hispanic Federation or the NAACP funded by Coke and Pepsi and the food industry. So they'll not oppose policies like, you know, they'll not support policies like soda tax for example. They, they have social, they have some front groups like the American Council on Science and Health that says pesticides, tobacco and high fructose corn syrup are all good for you. You know, and just one thing after the other. And they, they, they hijack science and scientific community, they hijack the government through intensive lobbying. So they've got this covered. And it's not, it's not a kind of random bunch of different things that are happening. It's a cohesive strategy. And, and, and I think if, if you had discovery, you'd find out and the American Diabetes association was recently sued and they settled with the, with the, the former nutrition director without going to court because they didn't want discovery because if they had discovery means all their, their kind of dealings with the funitry would be exposed. So I think, I think we have as a government have to hold these professional associations to account. We have to hold science to account. We have to fund the right science and we have to, you know, be, you know, the keepers and the integrity. Right now we have government by the corporations for the corporations of the corporations. No longer by the people for the people of the people. And then we need to go back to that.
- [55:58]
Senator Cory Booker
This gentleman here. Thank you all both for being here. Henry Lewis of Richmond, Virginia. I'm a fan of both of you. As someone with a graduate degree in nutrition and I also work in medical education, one of the things that annoys me the most is going to the doctor and hearing bad nutrition advice or bad nutrition advice.
- [56:16]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Oh yeah.
- [56:17]
Senator Cory Booker
As someone who works in med ed and has a nutrition God, you're getting.
- [56:20]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Any nutrition advice is a miracle.
- [56:21]
Senator Cory Booker
But anyway, yeah, so what are we doing to educate the new generation of doctors, whether it's to request residency, medical school as well as current practice, it's.
- [56:30]
Dr. Mark Hyman
One of the things we're working on. So there's $17 billion that the federal government spends for graduate medical education to fund residencies, internships. There's no requirements for how those dollars are used or any, you know, mandate, for example, for nutrition education as part of that. That's changing. So we've been made progress on that front to actually make those residency and fellowship programs include nutrition education. We're also working with the association of Medical Schools, who are now coming along and going to start including nutrition education. And doctors have to learn about this. The number one killer in the world is food. It kills 11 million people conservatively every year, more than tobacco and more than all the wars and weapons and everything else combined. And yet doctors learn nothing about nutrition, which is the biggest killer and the biggest cause of all the diseases that they're patients are coming in with. That needs to change. My daughter's in medical school now and she's got nothing. I was like, did you learn about nutrition? Yeah, well, we learned about amino acids and, you know, fatty acids and carbohydrates. What are you going to tell your patient to have for lunch?
- [57:35]
Senator Cory Booker
Thank you.
- [57:36]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So, yes, we're working on nutrition education bills and multiple senators and congressmen are working on, on reforming medical education as well. So it's happening. That's part of the initiatives working on with the food fixing.
- [57:47]
Senator Cory Booker
I'm going to go to the gentleman behind here. I know they came up early. Then I'm going to go to you, if you don't mind, sir.
- [57:51]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Hi, thank you both for your talk. I'm William, based in Maryland. So I have a good friend who's currently dealing with some obesity issues. And he's like a PhD student, which means he's super busy and doesn't have too much money to buy healthy meals. And every day. He was not every day, every week he's complaining to me that I wish I can buy more broccoli or salad.
- [58:16]
Senator Cory Booker
But the situation is I'm stuck with.
- [58:19]
Dr. Mark Hyman
A frozen pizza every week because it's.
- [58:22]
Senator Cory Booker
Cheaper and it's faster to make.
- [58:24]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So if you are in my situation, what advice would you give? Yeah, I think this is a really common belief that it's more expensive, it takes too much time, and it's too difficult to eat real food. And, you know, I was part of a movie called fed up 10 years ago, which talked about childhood obesity and the food industry. And as part of that movie, I went to work with a family in South Carolina. Easily South Carolina, which one of the worst food deserts in America. They have something called the Retail Food Environment Index. How many fast Food and you know, bodegas are there to healthy grocery stores. It's like 10 to 1 there. The family was a family of five, then trailer on food stamps and disability. The father was 42, already on dialysis from diabetes from kidney failure. The mother was 100 plus pounds overweight. The son was, you know, 50% body fat. At 16, practically diabetic, should be like 10 to 20%. And you know, they lived on $1,000 a month in food stamps and disability payments and I'd rather give them a lecture. I basically went to their house, went shopping and got simple ingredients, real food that were inexpensive. And it was from a guidebook called good food on a tight budget from the environmental working group. How to eat food that's good for you, good for the planet and good for your wallet. And rather than giving a lecture, I just said, let's cook together. And they'd never cooked a real food in their life. They were trying to eat low fat this and, you know, healthy that. With all the basically garbage marketing that's on most of our food that makes it look good, right? Like you said, the nice pictures of the farms and the pastures where all these animals come from. CAFOs. Well, my rule is if it has a health claim on the label, it's bad for you. If it's gluten free potato chips, it's bad for you, right?
- [60:00]
Senator Cory Booker
And if it says health food, you're.
- [60:02]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Like, oh yeah, if it's got a health claim, it's definitely bad for you. Low fat, low, high fiber this, that. It just means they're kind of tweaking the ingredients to make some kind of health claim. And it's generally highly processed food. So we made the simple meal. I told him how to peel garlic, I showed them how to chop vegetables, I show them how to stir fry things. We made turkey chili, made just simple food, salad with regular vegetable and some olive oil and vinegar, dressing, not dressing, that was filled with high fructose corn syrup and refined oils and all kinds of thickeners, emulsifers that were really bad for them. And I said, look, you know, you can do this. Here's this guidebook, here's one of my older cookbooks. And I'm like, I don't know if this is going to work. And they didn't have cutting boards, they didn't have knives. I said, okay, well, I flew back on the plane. I literally went on Amazon. I ordered them cutting board, the knife shipped to their house. A week later, the mother texts me, she says, we lost 18 pounds of family. We're doing it. A year later, they lost 200 pounds of family. The father lost 45, got a new kidney, the mother lost 100 pounds, the son lost 50. Then went to work at Bojangles because the only place to work down in the south gained it all back. He said it was like putting an alcoholic to work in a bar. Eventually got his act together. Called me up and said, I really want to get healthy again. I said, okay, let's do it. And I guided him. He lost 132 pounds. He was the first kid in his college to go to, I mean his family to go to college. And he asked me for a letter of recommendation for medical school. And now he's a doctor.
- [61:24]
Senator Cory Booker
Wow.
- [61:25]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So I don't believe the propaganda from the food industry that it, it takes too much time, it's difficult and it's expensive. Yeah, you're not going to have a $70 grass fed rib eye steak. But there are cheaper cuts of meat, cheaper vegetables, cheaper beans and grains, and cheaper nuts and seeds. And there's things you can get through outlets and Costco's and big, big box stores, Trader Joe's. You can actually eat well for less. And the truth is, the cost to you is such a benefit or the benefit to you is so high. If you look at we were talking about before, you know, basically the amount of disability and brain fog and feeling like crap. I call it FLC syndrome, when you feel like crap is massive. And presenteeism is a huge problem globally. We lose $2 trillion a year from people being at the job, but not on the job. And so we, we have to understand that our well being, our energy, our focus, our productivity, our happiness, our joy all depends on the food we eat. And it's good for us, but it's also good for families and for our communities and for our nation. And so I feel like I'm a kind of a lone voice in the wilderness. But this is really a national emergency at every level, from national security to our ability to produce the food we need to produce, to our ability to deal with the economic burden of it, the academic crisis in our children. I mean, it's just one thing after the other. And it's all connected by the food.
- [62:49]
Senator Cory Booker
Powerful.
- [62:50]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Thank you.
- [62:50]
Senator Cory Booker
Powerful. Yes, please.
- [62:52]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [62:52]
Senator Cory Booker
Hi. So I'm actually a physician and nephrologist.
- [62:55]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And I now work at nih.
- [62:56]
Senator Cory Booker
We do have an office of nutrition.
- [62:58]
Dr. Mark Hyman
It's tiny and needs better fun, but.
- [63:03]
Senator Cory Booker
That wasn't my question.
- [63:04]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I just had to throw, throw that in there. But I think the only time that in the National Institute of Health strategy that was put out by Francis Collins, the only time food was mentioned was as part of the sentence that included the Food and Drug Administration. So it's not a problem. I will not disagree with you on that. I agree.
- [63:21]
Senator Cory Booker
Mike, I was curious your thinking about these new, the GLP drugs that are.
- [63:26]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Out there, the anti obesity drugs. I didn't hear you mention those. I was just wondering what your thoughts were.
- [63:31]
Senator Cory Booker
I am wondering that too. Thank you for the question. Must be from New Jersey.
- [63:34]
Dr. Mark Hyman
What about the new drugs? Listen, we're in a crisis and people are desperate and if you haven't seen the south park movie about obesity, you should watch it. And it, it basically.
- [63:48]
Senator Cory Booker
Is it an episode or is it a new movie?
- [63:49]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, it's like an hour long episode maybe. I don't know, I don't really watch it that often, but somebody said it to me to watch. And it's, it basically shows these sort of suburban moms who become terrorists because the supply of Ozempic goes down and they literally are robbing pharmacies and they're, you know, like, it's like. And Carmen is basically trying to get Ozempic for his, himself and his friends have a chemistry lab where they're making a kind of a compounded version and they, these suburban moms attack them with no masks on and guns and their midriff showing because they all want to look how skinny they are. And it's kind of funny, but it's a problem. Again, I think for some people these drugs can be very helpful and very effective. I think when you look at scaling this up, the entire Medicare Part D, which is our drug benefit program, is $145 billion. If just the obese, not the overweight, just the obese Medicare patients got the drug, it would cost $245 billion, which would basically dwarf the expenditures of all drugs for all Medicare right now. So it's, it's not really a sustainable solution. Yes, the prices can come down and maybe that'll happen. And yes, in Canada and in Europe and Germany they're like instead of $1300 a month, it's like 100 or 200. And so these drugs can have a place, but it kind of misses the point, which is why are we obese in the first place? It's not Ozempic deficiency. It's our toxic food system. And we have to deal with the reality of where people are. And some people may benefit from these drugs. We also have to deal with the reality of our food system. So both have to be dealt with and these can have long term consequences that we're just learning about. So there was a great article in the New England Journal that came out years ago that said be sure to use new drugs as soon as they come out of the market before the side effects develop. Right. So just wait a few years. You're going to see bowel obstruction, pancreatitis, and a bunch of other issues. Muscle loss, wasting, regaining the weight. So I think they're not a panacea and they're not risk free, but I think they can be used effectively in some patients.
- [65:45]
Senator Cory Booker
And I think this is going to be. That was our last question because I think that's what you're announcing.
- [65:49]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Oh, I was going to say, yes.
- [65:50]
Senator Cory Booker
We're running short on time, so if.
- [65:52]
Dr. Mark Hyman
The three people standing can please keep their questions super brief and we'll take all three questions and then give you the last question. Thank you.
- [66:00]
Senator Cory Booker
Why don't we get them all out and then we'll answer them all at the end.
- [66:02]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Oh, I'm not sure my memory is that good. I have old timers, I have a.
- [66:05]
Senator Cory Booker
Pen and I will. I will take notes as people put the pressure. One, two, three.
- [66:10]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Hi, my name is Vadim Zhitnikov. I'm from Arlington, Virginia. And right now, is that a suburb of New Jersey?
- [66:18]
Senator Cory Booker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [66:20]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And right now I'm getting my NP degree and I was wondering, how does.
- [66:25]
Senator Cory Booker
One become a functional medicine practitioner?
- [66:28]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Is there a program that you would recommend or things like that? And then kind of a segue of that question, how does one become an activist to raise that awareness in the public that we can change the laws.
- [66:42]
Senator Cory Booker
And change the system?
- [66:44]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. And make that awareness.
- [66:46]
Senator Cory Booker
Thank you. The gentleman here, sir, my name's Daniel.
- [66:49]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So this is for Senator Booker. How do you justify incorporating meat into the diet with the negative health, environment and ethical consequences? You're asking me or Doc?
- [67:01]
Senator Cory Booker
He's asking me. Oh, yeah, me.
- [67:03]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Okay.
- [67:03]
Senator Cory Booker
Okay, good.
- [67:04]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Okay.
- [67:04]
Senator Cory Booker
Hold on, hold on. As a vegan, I'm dying to hear his answer.
- [67:09]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Go ahead. Hi, everyone. I'm Ana Irani. I also work at NIH and Human Resources.
- [67:16]
Senator Cory Booker
If there were three things you could.
- [67:17]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Get every American to do this week, I'd be curious what those are. Three things. This is such a big problem and there's so many things to be done, but I was wondering if you would have us focus as a public. What, what would those things be? Yeah.
- [67:32]
Senator Cory Booker
So I'm going to start, I'm going To start with the first question, how to become a functional medicine.
- [67:37]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I remember the questions, actually.
- [67:39]
Senator Cory Booker
Oh, you do?
- [67:39]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Okay, let's see how I do. Okay.
- [67:41]
Senator Cory Booker
I wish you would ask that question for a guy who couldn't pass organic chemistry.
- [67:45]
Dr. Mark Hyman
He wanted to be a doctor, had to be a senator. Is that so? Thank you, by the way, for being in the medical field and caring about these issues and being an advocate for transformation. As a physician, you're well trained in basic science, but we don't learn about the science of health. And the Institute for Functional Medicine, where I've been chairman of the board, I've been on the faculty for 20 years, 25 years, is a great organization that trains practitioners in functional medicine. And you can go to ifm.org, it's a nonprofit, there's training curriculums, they're online and they're great. As far as being an advocate goes, I think, you know, we all can do our part where we, where we feel called to do it. And it may be something as simple as, you know, composting your food, or it may be something as big as, you know, being an activist in Washington. You know, never underestimate Margaret Mead said this. Never estimate the power of a small group of highly committed people to change the world. In fact, it's the only thing that ever has. So. So people can make a difference. If you want to learn more, go to foodfix.org There's a guide on there called the Food Fix Action Guide. Or maybe you can go to foodfix.com or foodfixbook.com and the action guide is on there. And it's basically a 20, 30 page guide on what you can do individually, what you can do professionally, what you can do as a philanthropist, as a business, as a, as an advocate, what policymakers can do. So what has to happen across the board to actually drive the changes we need to see.
- [69:10]
Senator Cory Booker
And then one thing I would add to that, just on activism, I've learned that one really important definition of leadership is not how many people you can get to follow you, but how many people you can get to see that they are leaders themselves. So ignite other people. There are a lot of goodwill people that just don't know yet. That's why I gave your book Food Fix to other people I knew because I knew they were innately activists. But once they had the information, they would be out there telling the being truth tellers as well. So share the information, get other people to join this movement as leaders as well.
- [69:43]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And the vegan Question is an important question. I think, I think about 2% of American population is vegan.
- [69:49]
Senator Cory Booker
Mighty 2%.
- [69:50]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Mighty 2%. Very loud 2%.
- [69:51]
Senator Cory Booker
Yeah.
- [69:53]
Dr. Mark Hyman
And I, and I'm not opposed to it. I think there's many ways to eat healthily. I think it's hard to do it to get the nutritional density you need but, but you can. And I, I think you have to do it smartly and you have to not rely on a lot of what I call vegan junk food, which is also highly processed, refined carbohydrates and starches, which is kind of often the go to in terms of the issue of animal and, and plant and humans and the whole ecosystem a hundred percent. How we're raising animals now is, is criminal. It's criminal for the animals, for the earth, the ecosystem and the climate and for human health. So there's no argument those there should be banned and they should be stopped, period. That doesn't mean that animals integrated into a regenerative agriculture system are bad. In fact, they can be extremely effective even if you don't eat them. And I recently visited a farm ranch actually in Texas which is called Rome Ranch. And basically a young couple bought a thousand acres right next to all the other cattle ranches and they decided to raise bison. And they did it in a regenerative way with no tell with allowing just the animals to do their thing and not really adding feed or you know, they had water. And they found that they were able to restore the ecosystem in such a way that they were add, add 6% organic matter into the soil in just a few years. For every 1% of organic matter, the soil holds 25,000 gallons of water. Their farmers, I mean the ranchers right next to them and you can see this because they were on the fences, were suffering a drought. They had to sell off all their cattle. They couldn't raise animals anymore. And meanwhile this bison ranch was thriving. Wild animals were coming back, bald eagles were coming back. They had multi species on the, on the farm. The soil matter was increasing organic matter. All, all these things were happening and they're creating incredibly helpful source of food which is very nutrient dense. And you know, I think, you know, eating a regeneratively raised bison versus a CAFO cow steer is a completely different thing. And we're learning a lot about, you know, all these animals are such an integral part of the ecosystem and one of the key aspects of regenerative agriculture is to include animals as part of the ecosystem to recycle nutrients and the soil and the earth I mean, in, in, I think that movie Food Inc. That you were in, there was a great scene of this guy who was a regular farmer and he couldn't make it, and he had to sell agrochemicals and agricultural seeds from big seed companies. And he kind of got sick of it all and decided to create a model of regenerative farming where he had sheep and pigs and things in this kind of weird thing, I don't what he called it, but basically moved it through his farm to fertilize the soil and still grow crops, but do it in a way that restored the ecosystem, had less inputs, saved money and made him more money and created a healthier environment. So I think, you know, being, being an ethical vegan is fine from a health perspective. I think, you know, there's, there's, there's a way to do it well, but there's also a way to not do it well.
- [72:51]
Senator Cory Booker
And I, well, let's use me as an example. He's a good friend. I don't mind putting myself back on his table. First of all, he took my blood. I don't know why he had to stab me so hard to get it. Yeah, but, but, but, but you took my blood and you said, corey, you're a junk food vegan. Yeah. And you're, you're, you're, you're lacking in B. B12, I think you told me.
- [73:15]
Dr. Mark Hyman
12 Omega and Omega 3s, vitamin D.
- [73:18]
Senator Cory Booker
You don't have to put it all out there, man. I didn't want to give them my whole profile.
- [73:23]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Sorry.
- [73:23]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes, yes.
- [73:24]
Dr. Mark Hyman
I just broke my HIPAA violation. Yeah.
- [73:29]
Senator Cory Booker
But yes, B12, iron, omega threes, which are things that I think vegans have to be sure about. Yeah. But not that everybody doesn't need to be smart about their nutrients because I'm sure most Americans are low in things, but as a guy who's very health conscious and tries to eat well, there are certain things that you said to me, hey, Corey, you've got to figure out how to source this. And even just right now, you were telling me that I'm old and that I needed to get more protein. Yeah.
- [73:53]
Dr. Mark Hyman
So you're going to need to eat sort of like, you know, concentrated proteins like pea protein and the ones that are supplemented with amino acids that'll help build muscle as you get older. Yeah.
- [74:00]
Senator Cory Booker
Right. So I think that choices are fine. The diversities in diets are fine. Even though you keep pushing eggs on me. If they're blessed by Buddhist monks or can't you eat them? And you know Whatever.
- [74:12]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Trying.
- [74:13]
Senator Cory Booker
But the reality is you can make choices, but you should make smart choices. And the truth is, and because I was, as you said I was in that documentary that you talked about, the more we're returning to the centuries old agricultural practices that human beings thrived on, where there were soil being regenerative soil practices that often involved animals.
- [74:36]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Has to right. Think about there were 168 million ruminants in America. They were grazing all across. That created the incredible bread basket that we have in the Midwest with 50ft of topsoil. Was that with the movie? He called it what he called it Iowa Motherlode or something.
- [74:52]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes.
- [74:52]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Like.
- [74:52]
Senator Cory Booker
But we're losing that soil now because of our current practices.
- [74:55]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [74:55]
Senator Cory Booker
At a very alarming rate.
- [74:57]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. And so. So it's actually. Animals are essential for the ecosystem to thrive.
- [75:01]
Senator Cory Booker
Okay, so before I give my sort.
- [75:02]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Of closing, was there one more question?
- [75:04]
Senator Cory Booker
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You got to get this last question about. They're asking specifics. Three, three things for every American to do. If you could get every American to do three things this week, what would you get them to do?
- [75:14]
Dr. Mark Hyman
First, I would. I would get them to give up liquid sugar calories. Yes. Which is a huge driver of obesity. The second would be to give up ultra processed food. And the third would be to add a lot of colorful fruits and vegetables to your diet.
- [75:31]
Senator Cory Booker
That's amazing. Okay, before I go, I try to be the only big black boy that could give a Jewish man Jewish guilt. So my favorite parsha is a part.
- [75:44]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Of a Torah reading for those non Jews in the.
- [75:47]
Senator Cory Booker
Yes, my favorite parsha.
- [75:48]
Dr. Mark Hyman
My favorite, like I said, he knows more Hebrew than I do.
- [75:50]
Senator Cory Booker
Is this extraordinary story about the father of three of our great human faiths. Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Abraham. And Abraham was said to be favored by God because he kept his tent open on all four sides and people were welcome. And one day, after Abraham had joined the covenant, he had done something you don't recommend, but circumcised himself. We will move quickly past that. He was sitting in pain by his tent. And the Torah says that strangers that were different than him. I've talked to some rabbinical scholars that were different race, very different. Strangers were approaching his tent and he stands up and he runs to them. He doesn't just greet them, hey, come over. My tent's open. No, he runs with him with joy in his heart to welcome the stranger. And then what you'll love about this story is he brings them into the tent and he gives them his best food.
- [76:48]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [76:49]
Senator Cory Booker
His best food.
- [76:50]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.
- [76:51]
Senator Cory Booker
And this idea in cultures going back a millennium, all across the globe, this idea of food being a place that brings us together, that creates what you said at the very beginning in your Blue Zone, you talked about community and this idea that American family sitting around a dinner table which is becoming less and less the reality, especially the reality without a TV screen on. The fact that you're re celebrating the power and the magic of food, I think gets us back to the Abrahamic ideals and the fact that you're trying to create community in this country around activism to reclaim our health. It is a celebration of the song sung during the High holidays, Ki be Tibetan, the little Hohomi. May my house be a house of prayer for all nations. Thank you Dr. Hyman for being someone who is seeking again to bring us all together around one tent, around one metaphorical table to have great food for everyone.
- [77:52]
Dr. Mark Hyman
Thank you, thank you. Thanks for listening today. If you love this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. Leave a comment on your own best practices on how you upgrade your health and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman and we'll see you next time on the Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm always getting questions about my favorite books, podcasts, gadgets, supplements, recipes and lots more. And now you can have access to all of this information by signing up for my free Mark's picks newsletter@drhyman.com forward/markspix I promise I'll only email you once a week on Fridays and I'll never share your email address or send you any anything else besides my recommendations. These are the things that have helped me on my health journey and I hope they'll help you too. Again, that's Dr. Hyman.commarkspicks Thank you again and we'll see you next time on the Doctor's Pharmacy. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness center and my work at Cleveland Clinic and Function Health where I'm the Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests opinions and neither myself nor the podcast endorsed the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. Now if you're looking for your help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner. You can come see us at the Ultra Wellness center in Lenox, Massachusetts. Just go to ultrawellnesscenter.com if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner near you, you can visit ifm.org and search find a Practitioner Database. It's important that you have someone in your corner who is trained, who is a licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. Fatigue, Bloating, Heartburn Stubborn fat Are you sick of feeling like crap? I'm Dr. Mark Hyman and I have a remedy that's helped thousands eliminate these frustrating symptoms and more almost overnight. It's called the 10 Day Detox and it can be seriously life changing. On average, participants in this program report a 60% reduction in chronic symptoms in just 10 days. They have more energy, their blood sugar improves, junk food cravings disappear, their skin clears up and they lose stubborn fat. And most importantly, they feel better than they have in years, all in just 10 days. If you're ready to feel your best again, go to Dr. Hyman.com detox that's Dr. Hyman.com detox.