The Dr. Hyman Show: Got Truth? Rethinking Dairy, Calcium, and Bone Health

Host: Dr. Mark Hyman
Guests: Dr. David Ludwig, Dr. Sue McLaughlin
Date: November 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode critically reexamines popular beliefs about dairy, calcium, and bone health. Dr. Mark Hyman, joined by Dr. David Ludwig and Dr. Sue McLaughlin—two leading experts in nutritional science—dismantles the long-standing “milk equals healthy bones” myth. The conversation explores how food politics, industry funding, and public health recommendations contribute to confusion about dairy's role in nutrition, and highlights that many people suffer negative effects from dairy—often needlessly, since calcium and other essential nutrients can be sourced elsewhere.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of Milk as a Required Health Food

• Milk Is Not Universally Consumed or Needed

  • Only 25-30% of the world tolerates lactose; most adults globally are lactose intolerant.
  • "Milk is something that most of the world's population doesn't tolerate." (Dr. Hyman, 00:59)
  • Cultures with little or no dairy intake don't have more fractures or bone problems.

• Historical and Cross-Cultural Perspectives

  • Before animal domestication (10,000 years ago), humans didn’t drink milk.
  • Children in non-dairy-consuming countries don’t show worse bone health.

2. US Dietary Guidelines and Food Industry Influence

• Origins of Dairy Recommendations

  • The USDA’s dual mission confounds public health with commodity promotion.
  • “The USDA ... has a dual mission. One is promotion of public health, but the other is to advance the financial interests of the big food commodity producers. And dairy is absolutely very, very powerful.” (Dr. Ludwig, 03:07)

• The “Got Milk” Campaign and Advertising

  • The campaign was funded via a government program (Chekhov) supporting industry marketing.
  • The Federal Trade Commission took down “Got Milk” ads for making unsubstantiated claims.
  • “The money is tithe to the government by the industry, apparently to support research. But it actually went to marketing of these ads ... they were literally taken down by the Federal Trade Commission because there was no evidence for the claims we're making.” (Dr. Hyman, 02:45)

• Industry-Funded Research Bias

  • Studies funded by the dairy industry overwhelmingly favor dairy’s purported benefits.
  • “If the Dairy Council does a study on milk, it’s going to find it’s good for your bones ... But actually, it’s pretty frightening.” (Dr. Hyman, 19:25)

3. Dairy and Calcium’s Real Impact on Bones

• Calcium Requirements Overstated

  • U.S. recommendations (1,000mg/day) are likely double what’s actually needed.
    • “How much calcium and the minimum requirement ... probably at most a half of what has been traditionally viewed as necessary in the United States.” (Dr. Ludwig, 09:19)
  • Countries with lower calcium intakes (300-500mg/day) still show low fracture rates.

• Sources of Dietary Calcium

  • “A serving of kale has almost as much calcium as a serving of milk.” (Dr. Ludwig, 11:52)
  • Other sources: sardines, almonds, sesame seeds, chia seeds, tahini, collard greens, tofu, salmon with bones.

• Focus on Calcium Balance

  • It’s not just intake—loss matters (excess salt, sugar, alcohol, caffeine, stress increase calcium loss).
    • “It’s not just about how much you take in, it’s how much you pee out.” (Dr. Hyman, 10:27)
  • U.S. lifestyle leads to higher calcium loss, negating benefits of higher intake.

4. Bone Health, Fracture Risk, and Height

• More Dairy, More Fractures?

  • Countries with highest dairy/calcium intake have highest fracture rates.
  • “Sweden ... has the highest intakes of calcium and the highest risk of fractures. ... Indonesia and China have the lowest intakes of calcium and the lowest risk of fractures.” (Dr. Hyman, 10:27)
  • Milk in childhood might increase adult fracture risk due to increased height (a risk factor for fractures).

• No “Calcium Bank” in Bones

  • Bone calcium added in childhood is not stored for life.

5. Dairy, Growth, and Cancer Risk

• Milk as a Growth Food
  • “The purpose of milk is to ... help [animals] grow rapidly so they can be ... free of predation.” (Dr. Ludwig, 15:44)
• Growth Factors and Cancer
  • Height increases cancer risk; high dairy (and growth factors) may also contribute.
  • “There seems to be evidence of cancer of high levels of dairy consumption causing prostate cancer in men ... and endometrial cancer.” (Dr. Ludwig, 16:11)
  • Milk increases IGF-1, a known cancer promoter.

6. The Fat Question: Full-Fat vs. Low-Fat Dairy

• Modern Recommendations for Low-Fat Dairy Are Flawed
  • Skim/low-fat milk increases hunger, may lead to weight gain.
  • Dairy fat is not the villain once thought—recent studies absolve it of heart disease risk.
    • “Saturated fat and total fat consumption have very little effect to no effect on heart disease.” (Dr. Hyman, 30:47)
  • Butter and full-fat dairy, in moderation, can be fine for most people.

7. Lactose Intolerance: Prevalence, Causes, and Symptoms

• Prevalence and Causes

  • “Lactose intolerance is so common, it's at least 65% of the world population.” (Dr. McLaughlin, 32:03)
  • Increases with age, after gut infections, or antibiotic use.

• Symptoms and Diagnosis

  • Abdominal pain, fullness, gas, bloating, diarrhea after dairy.
  • “Typically ... it's half an hour to two hours after you consume the lactose containing food.” (Dr. McLaughlin, 36:03)
  • Removing dairy often quickly resolves symptoms.

• Testing and Reintroduction

  • Remove all dairy first, then reintroduce better-tolerated forms (A2 milk, goat, or sheep products, fermented dairy like yogurt).

• Lactase Supplements

  • Can help some, but not a panacea; elimination is usually best for sensitive individuals.

8. Dairy Sensitivities: More Than Lactose

• Dairy can also cause reactions to proteins (casein, whey):
  • Allergies (IgE), sensitivities, or autoimmune triggers.
  • Common conditions improved upon removing dairy: eczema, asthma, acne, autoimmune issues.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Milk is something that most of the world's population doesn't tolerate.”
  —Dr. Mark Hyman [00:59]

• “You know, good luck milking a saber-toothed tiger.”
  —Dr. David Ludwig [04:26]

• “Dairy is better than Coke, but that’s not saying much.”
  —Dr. Mark Hyman [06:24]

• “There’s no one food you have to eat in order to live.”
  —Dr. David Ludwig [04:35]

• “The bigger they come, the harder they fall.”
  —Dr. Mark Hyman, on height and fracture risk [13:47]

• “Milk ... accelerates growth in children, but in adults, these growth factors ... may be stimulating biological systems that relate to cancer.”
  —Dr. David Ludwig [15:44]

• “The amount of calcium everybody needs is actually far less than the levels recommended in the United States. It’s not actually the total calcium intake that matters, but how much you actually keep.”
  —Dr. Mark Hyman [25:05]

• “It’s not nature’s perfect food unless you’re a calf.”
  —Dr. Mark Hyman [42:43]

• “When in doubt, cut it out.”
  —Dr. Mark Hyman’s advice on eliminating dairy for trial [49:20]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Milk Tolerance Worldwide & Dairy Politics: 00:59 – 04:26
• Industry Influence & “Got Milk” Campaign: 02:45 – 03:04 | 17:37 – 20:15
• Is Dairy Necessary for Bone Health?: 06:00 – 11:43
• Calcium from Plants vs. Dairy: 11:43 – 12:30 | 25:05 – 27:15
• Calcium Loss Factors: 10:27 – 11:43 | 25:32 – 27:15
• Dairy, Height & Fracture / Cancer Risks: 13:47 – 15:44
• Lactose Intolerance – Symptoms & Diagnosis: 32:03 – 36:03
• Alternatives, A2 Milk, Fermented Dairy: 38:16 – 40:21
• Full-Fat Dairy, Butter & Fat Science: 27:44 – 32:03
• Clinical Cases & Examples: 43:26 – 47:18
• Final Clinical Advice (“When in doubt, cut it out”): 49:20

Summary Table: Non-Dairy Calcium Sources

| Food | Calcium per serving (approx.) | |-------------------------------|-------------------------------| | Sesame seeds (1/4 cup) | 351 mg | | Sardines (can, w/ bones) | 350 mg | | Tofu (3 oz) | 350 mg | | Yogurt (1 cup) | 250-300 mg (sheep/goat options) | | Collard greens (1 cup) | 268 mg | | Spinach (1 cup) | 245 mg | | Cheese (1 oz) | 204 mg | | Salmon (3 oz, w/ bones) | 188 mg | | Almonds (2 oz) | 150 mg | | Chia seeds | Comparable/high |

Practical Recommendations

• You don’t need to drink milk for bone health or calcium needs.
• Many people have undiagnosed lactose intolerance or dairy sensitivities.
• Best practice: Eliminate dairy for 3–4 weeks, monitor symptoms, reintroduce carefully if desired.
• Plant sources and certain animal foods can amply provide calcium.
• Beware industry-funded research and always examine the “why” behind dietary guidelines.
• For dairy lovers: A2 milk, sheep/goat dairy, and fermented products may be better tolerated.
• Fat in dairy isn’t always harmful; low-fat dairy may be worse for satiety and weight maintenance.

This rich, myth-busting episode encourages listeners to rethink what they’ve been taught about dairy, listen to their bodies, and seek nutrients from a wide range of whole foods—removing the veil of food politics from nutrition science.