The Dr. Hyman Show: "Obesity Isn’t Your Fault: Biology, Addiction & Solutions"

Guest: Dr. David Kessler
Host: Dr. Mark Hyman
Date: October 1, 2025

Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, Dr. Mark Hyman is joined by Dr. David Kessler—former FDA commissioner, physician, legal scholar, and food policy pioneer—to unpack the real causes of America’s metabolic crisis. They examine why obesity is not an individual moral failure but the product of a food environment engineered for addiction, explore the powerful analogy between Big Tobacco and Big Food, and discuss Dr. Kessler’s groundbreaking petition to the FDA that could revolutionize food policy in America. The conversation weaves together personal struggle, neuroscience, legal action, and pragmatic solutions for individuals and policymakers alike.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Dr. Kessler’s Personal Journey & the Nature of Food Addiction

• Personal Struggle with Weight ([00:00], [06:31], [09:08])

  • Dr. Kessler describes his own post-COVID weight gain despite elite medical and legal careers, highlighting how insidious modern weight gain can be—even in those who “should know better.”
  • Quote:

    "I ran the FDA and here I can't control my weight. So I ended up after Covid 40 pounds heavier and I didn't like myself." — Dr. David Kessler [00:00]

• Food as an Emotional Regulator

  • He candidly shares his use of food for energy and mood, likening modern snacking and cravings to the addictive patterns he saw in his own family with tobacco ([08:19]).

• The Biological Reality of Addiction ([12:23], [13:18], [16:04])

  • Addiction pathways are present "in all of us"—not just a stigmatized minority.
  • Our brains "gate" attention to energy-dense foods using deep evolutionary and neurochemical wiring.

• Addiction is Not a Metaphor—It’s Biology

  • Dr. Kessler and Dr. Hyman emphasize that food addiction is quantifiable and shared by up to 70% of people, not just a small subgroup ([15:06]).

How the Food Industry Engineered Our Crisis

• The Dawn of Ultra-Processed Foods ([26:15], [27:33])

  • The industry repurposed commodity crops (wheat, soy, corn) into new molecules (maltodextrin, corn syrup, etc.), deconstructing the food matrix:
    • "They took out the structure of food, right?...and then they reassembled them in a way without the structure of that food." — Dr. David Kessler [27:33]
  • Foods are now rapidly absorbed, energy-dense, calorie-heavy, and designed to bypass satiety signals.

• Big Food Learning from Big Tobacco ([28:33])

  • Companies deliberately designed their products to maximize brain reward.
    • "This wasn't on accident…The tobacco industry did the science...They knew everything about nicotine." — Dr. Mark Hyman [28:33]
  • Sucrose used as a positive control in animal addiction studies ([29:25]).

• Regulatory Loophole: GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) ([37:34], [41:28])

  • Many of the new ingredients were classified as GRAS decades ago, before their health impacts were understood.
  • The food industry was able to self-certify new ingredients, bypassing robust safety evaluations.

The Science: What Toxic Food Does to Our Bodies

• The Rise of Toxic Fat & Visceral Adiposity ([10:05], [18:07])

  • The medical world is converging around the harm caused by “visceral fat” (fat deposited in organs), which is metabolically, hormonally, and immunologically active.

• American Metabolic Health Is Collapsing ([19:20], [23:01])

  • Hyperinsulinemia rates have doubled in 20 years, yet doctors rarely test for insulin.
  • Fewer than 7% of Americans are metabolically healthy.
    • "That means that 93.2% of Americans have some degree of insulin resistance." — Dr. Mark Hyman [23:01]

• Ultra-Processed Foods Cause Most Chronic Disease

  • These foods drive satiety dysfunction, visceral fat, insulin resistance, and the ensuing epidemic of diabetes, heart failure, cancer, and stroke ([25:37], [34:11]).

The Policy Hack: Dr. Kessler’s FDA Petition

• Targeting the Root Cause Via Regulation ([41:28], [43:46])

  • Dr. Kessler authored an FDA petition pointing out these carbohydrates are no longer demonstrably “safe” and thus can’t be GRAS.
    • "We have this huge chronic disease problem. We know the culprit…We understand the metabolic harm…We know that it's these rapidly absorbable carbohydrates. And the FDA said it was safe…if you look at the Dietary Advisory committee...they have shown all the adverse events." — Dr. David Kessler [43:58]

• Burden of Proof Shifted to Industry

  • If FDA revokes GRAS status, the industry must prove safety or reformulate food.
  • “All you have to do is show that there is not. There are these questions about the safety, right. Any doubt in your mind that processed refined carbohydrates…there's questions about the safety. That's all FDA…has to do." — Dr. David Kessler [46:08]

• Potential for Profound Change ([54:10], [54:27])

  • Comparing to tobacco regulation: A simple regulatory “hook” reframes the issue and invites broader legal and legislative follow-up.
  • Real change requires hearings, labeling, public education, and cultural shifts.

Short Term Solutions: Drugs, Food Environment, and Individual Action

• GLP-1 Drugs: A Powerful but Incomplete Tool ([63:09]-[66:08])

  • GLP-1 agonists (semaglutide, etc.) are highly effective while taken: they slow gastric emptying, induce satiety, and reduce cravings.
  • Their dominant side effect—nausea—operates on different neural circuits than dopamine reward, helping override addictive drives.
    • "What's strong enough to overcome the addictive circuits? Wanting to puke?...But that's exactly how this works." — Dr. Mark Hyman and Dr. David Kessler [65:01]
  • However, most patients stop within a year and regain weight—drugs are not a sole fix.
  • "There should be no shame associated with using these drugs. But we've got to figure out how to use these drugs wisely. They are an important tool, but they are not the only tool in the toolkit." — Dr. David Kessler [66:03]

• Necessity of Real Food and Systemic Change ([69:13], [69:56])

  • Medication alone, without changing the food environment and providing comprehensive care, will fail.
  • "If we're just going to put people back into an environment with all this ultra processed foods, what's going to happen when they're off the drugs?" — Dr. David Kessler [69:13]

• Rethinking Food Culture & Policy ([57:07], [71:40])

  • Just as tobacco fell out of social favor, so too must ultra-processed foods.
  • Policy suggestions: labeling, advertising regulation, SNAP reform, cumulative dose standards, hearings, and shifting public perception.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Industry Accountability:

  "The minute the government says it's not grass, it gives them a deadline…Americans can thrive."
  — Dr. Mark Hyman & Dr. David Kessler [49:07]

• On Processed Food's Impact:

  "You could not have designed a better weapon to blow up the American body."
  — Dr. David Kessler [60:18]

• On the Path Forward:

  “We understand what the problem is right now. There needs to be the coming together and we just have to execute this.”
  — Dr. David Kessler [58:18]

• On the Social Shift Needed:

  "The great public health success of our lifetime…We took something, an addictive substance...and we changed the valence."
  — Dr. David Kessler on tobacco and the lesson for food [56:07]

• On Long-Term Solutions:

  “We have to give people access to real food. We have to give people access to care. …I think we can reclaim our health.”
  — Dr. David Kessler [73:12]

Structured Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–09:46: Dr. Kessler’s personal journey with stress, weight gain, and realization of broader food system problems.
• 10:05–19:55: Mechanisms and effects of toxic visceral fat, converging medical evidence, exploding rates of metabolic dysfunction.
• 26:15–37:34: History and tactics of food industry; ultra-processed foods, deconstruction and reassembly of "pseudo-foods."
• 41:28–46:08: Explaining the GRAS loophole, FDA petition details, and shifting legal standards for the food industry.
• 54:10–58:22: Lessons from tobacco regulation, public health strategies, shifting collective perception.
• 63:09–69:56: GLP-1 weight loss drugs, biological drivers of satiety and addiction, the importance/limitations of pharma, need for supportive systems.
• 71:02–73:26: The urgent need for structural, policy, and cultural change; hope for reclaiming health on a national and individual level.

Conclusion: What Needs to Change—and How You Can Help

The episode closes with both urgency and optimism:

• Dr. Kessler’s FDA petition is a practical legal tool that could force the food industry to reformulate its products and prioritize safety.
• Comprehensive change—from government action to personal support, public education, social norms, and access to real food—is all essential.
• The time for action is now, and listeners are encouraged to spread the word and push elected representatives to support change.

Final Words:

“We can reclaim our health ... There’s sometimes these ideas that happen once in a while that catalyze some shift and I think this is one of those ideas. It’s simple, it’s clear, it’s irrefutable. His time has come. Like, let's go.” — Dr. Mark Hyman [74:31]

Listen to this episode if you’re seeking a clear and authoritative breakdown of the roots of America’s health crisis, actionable science, and real potential for transformation—at both the dinner table and in Washington.